Greenlam Industries Limited — Q4 FY26

Greenlam Industries Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTgX9P1r28A Published: 11 days ago

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Green Limb Industries Limited Q4 and FY26 earnings conference 0:08 8 seconds call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. 0:20 20 seconds These statements do not guarantee the future performance of the company and it may involve risks and uncertaintities 0:27 27 seconds that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenonly mode and there will be 0:34 34 seconds an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an 0:42 42 seconds operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now 0:50 50 seconds hand the conference over to Mr. Sorab Mittal, managing director and chief executive officer, Green Limb 0:57 57 seconds Industries. Thank you and over to you, sir. 1:01 1 minute, 1 second Thank you. Uh good afternoon friends and welcome to the quarter 4 and FI26 earnings call of Greenland Industries Limited. Uh I have our CFO Sh on the 1:11 1 minute, 11 seconds call as well as the team from SGA, our investor relations advisors. I'm sure by this time you've had an opportunity to look at the results and the investor 1:19 1 minute, 19 seconds presentation uh which are available on our stock exchanges and the company's uh websites 1:26 1 minute, 26 seconds and I'll give you some updates on the quarter and the FI uh before I hand over the call to Ashoke. So firstly I'm 1:33 1 minute, 33 seconds pleased to communicate that uh the company crossed the annual revenue of 3,000 crores in FI26 uh with a growth of 1:41 1 minute, 41 seconds about 18% plus on a year-on-year basis and this growth was driven 1:48 1 minute, 48 seconds by improved performance across all categories. Uh at the core business continued to grow. Uh the new businesses of uh plywood and allied also you know 1:57 1 minute, 57 seconds grew reasonably well. The chipboard business did quite well in the first year of operation and I think within the first year of operation I think we've 2:06 2 minutes, 6 seconds come to the amongst the top players in the chipboard business. 2:11 2 minutes, 11 seconds Uh the EIA also last year despite the losses of the new businesses you know before forex grew about 20 odd%. uh the 2:19 2 minutes, 19 seconds the PAT numbers look a bit depressed due to losses on the new business, increased uh interest cost, increased depreation 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds cost but clearly I think as we move ahead as we get more leverage you know I think you will see improvements on the 2:34 2 minutes, 34 seconds uh revenues on EITAS and on the u profitability despite new businesses again working capital cycles were 2:41 2 minutes, 41 seconds largely maintained at 57 days you know despite that we had a brand new business of chip so so clearly I think last year was a important year for us. We got it 2:50 2 minutes, 50 seconds was the first full year you know after of operating all the five factories you know after maybe 3 years where where in 2:57 2 minutes, 57 seconds F5 23 24 25 years we kept adding capacities started new plants two new product lines you 3:05 3 minutes, 5 seconds know several uh initiatives in the domestic market several new warehouses in the international market. So, so last year was the first full year of actually 3:14 3 minutes, 14 seconds just being focused on, you know, running the business and focusing on the execution part of it. And FI27 will be, 3:21 3 minutes, 21 seconds you know, one one more year where we're not getting new capacities on board. 3:25 3 minutes, 25 seconds We're just focusing on ensuring the investments done or converted to revenues and profitability. 3:31 3 minutes, 31 seconds During FI26, we also took an important step of consolidating our our brand strategy with two brands. So earlier we 3:38 3 minutes, 38 seconds had green lamb, new pneuma, masa, deco wood. So we brought everything under two brands greenlam and masa and masa now 3:46 3 minutes, 46 seconds carries plywood, laminates, paneer flooring doors and green lamp that's a flagship brand of laminates and the melamine chipboard. So this initiative 3:54 3 minutes, 54 seconds will also helped us you know better position ourselves in the market bring in more leverage with the brand costs and the channel and I think that's also moving in a good direction. 4:05 4 minutes, 5 seconds uh starting March with the war and the uh conflict this led to uh substantial increase in raw metal cost especially 4:13 4 minutes, 13 seconds the chemical costs and uh we were mostly able to pass on all the increase uh in the domestic market. In the export 4:21 4 minutes, 21 seconds market we could pass in about four to 5% uh price increases plus there was a rupee depreciation which kind of benefited you know or eased out the cost 4:30 4 minutes, 30 seconds increase to an extent. all additional freight beyond a certain point which has been in agreement with customers for several years that was passed on to the 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds market. So by and large you know most of the RM cost increases have been passed on to the market. Since then there has 4:45 4 minutes, 45 seconds been a little bit of softening on uh RM costs especially on the chemical side and some minor corrections have have also been done in the market. um you 4:54 4 minutes, 54 seconds know basis the RM movement as far as the logistical challenges are concerned in terms of availability of 5:02 5 minutes, 2 seconds raw material you know so by and large we didn't have disruption of raw material or supply chain and yes there was some delays on imports we've had some delays 5:11 5 minutes, 11 seconds on exports with transit times you know increasing a bit se increasing on both inward and output side but I think the 5:17 5 minutes, 17 seconds team's been able to manage the situation quite successfully so otherwise I So from from a war perspective as of now 5:25 5 minutes, 25 seconds things things look more or less under control on our side. As far as the demand is concerned you know we're not sure how things will pan out in the 5:33 5 minutes, 33 seconds future but but so far you know we've we've said we'll do like a 18 20% kind of a topline growth in FI 27. We said 5:43 5 minutes, 43 seconds that earlier that we'll be maintaining that growth for the next few years. So FI27 also we should be able to maintain a 18% uh kind of a topline growth 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds despite the RM costs and maybe some disruption on demand if that does happen in the near future. We do export to 6:00 6 minutes Middle East and yes it was impacted in the month of March and somewhat impacted in the month of April but May was 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds reasonably normalized and on overall scheme of things we don't see there'll be much impact some other markets should 6:16 6 minutes, 16 seconds be able to you know take on that load but guess you know as far as Middle East market is concerned there was an impact in the business in March and in April. 6:26 6 minutes, 26 seconds Uh if I go segment wise, the laminate business continues to do well. You know, we had a good operating revenue in the quarter and the year. We had one of the 6:35 6 minutes, 35 seconds highest EITA value in in laminous last year. Nearly 400 crores of EITA we did in FI26. So I think as we move on, we 6:43 6 minutes, 43 seconds should we should continue to do well in this category. We adding two new lines of laminates as announced earlier and 6:50 6 minutes, 50 seconds they should be coming into production by end of this FI. And so I think that's going to happen at the Andhra Pradesh plant and we said that earlier that we 6:59 6 minutes, 59 seconds have enough brownfield expansions now in laminates in both Andhra Pradesh and Gujarat plant and we don't need a fifth plant. So that's on the laminate side 7:07 7 minutes, 7 seconds plywood and alike categories also you know I think we continue to win uh market share in that premium category we are present in and we still have to do 7:17 7 minutes, 17 seconds more to bring the business to a bit break even. We hope in FI26, sorry, FI27 we get to that level. We're still not 7:24 7 minutes, 24 seconds present across the country and uh this year too we'll not be we're not taking the brand national as yet on the plywood uh in the plywood business limiting it 7:32 7 minutes, 32 seconds to south some parts of western India and eastern India on the chipboard segment on the panel 7:40 7 minutes, 40 seconds allied segment I think we've done quite well in the first of operation the plants well stabilized product quality has been quite well acceptable uh we we 7:47 7 minutes, 47 seconds have worked on product development a new category of HMR was launched in Q3 in the coming year two we're looking at adding uh some more you know premium 7:56 7 minutes, 56 seconds items uh in this category. So I think the PL on the plant side, product distribution, I think we've made good progress and I and I'm assuming and I'm 8:04 8 minutes, 4 seconds hoping that this year too we'll continue uh the uh you know winning more business and winning more market share uh in the chipboard business and improving volume, 8:13 8 minutes, 13 seconds improving value mix and bringing the business to a a better break even of positive within this FI and FI 27 8:23 8 minutes, 23 seconds besides the two lines they're adding in Andhra Pradesh plant of laminates uh we are not adding more capacities. They're going to be focused on ensuring these 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds capacities we've invested over the last you know 3 4 years they kind of get to doing more business for us and we bring 8:38 8 minutes, 38 seconds in more revenues and profitability. So that's broadly you know from our side. 8:43 8 minutes, 43 seconds I'll have Ashoke take you all through the financial numbers and then we can kind of uh address your queries if any. 8:51 8 minutes, 51 seconds Ashoke over to you. Thank you sir. Good afternoon everyone. 8:56 8 minutes, 56 seconds uh I'll take you through the financial performance for the quarter four and for the full year. Coming to the quarterly performance on console basis, our net 9:05 9 minutes, 5 seconds revenue grew by 25 26% on year-on-year basis to 858 cr 9:12 9 minutes, 12 seconds as compared to 682 cr in quarter 4 last year. This is our highest in quarterly revenue supported by the growth momentum 9:22 9 minutes, 22 seconds across business. interrupt sir your your voice is fading fading off every now and then please come a little closer to the microphone 9:29 9 minutes, 29 seconds I'm so sorry yeah gross margin grew by 80 basis point to 51.5% in this quarter from 50.7% in 9:39 9 minutes, 39 seconds Q4 last year on a sequential basis gross margin deg grew by 410 basis point majorly due to rise in input cost 9:48 9 minutes, 48 seconds gross profit in absolute terms grew by 28% on year-on-year basis to 442 cr as 9:55 9 minutes, 55 seconds compared to 345 cr in quarter 4 last year. AITA margin before forex 10:02 10 minutes, 2 seconds fluctuation grew by 250 basis point at 12.5% in this quarter as compared to 10% 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds in Q4 last year. Abita before forex fluctuation in absolute term grew by 57% 10:16 10 minutes, 16 seconds to 104 107 cr in comparison to 68 cr in Q4 last year. Net profit during the 10:24 10 minutes, 24 seconds quarter stood at 40 cr 40 40 cr. Moving on to yearly performance 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds our net revenue on consol by 18.6% 6% and stood at 3,46 cr as compared to 2569 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds cr in last year. Gross margin was up by 130 basis point to 53.6% 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds in this year from 52.3% last year. Gross profit in absolute term 10:55 10 minutes, 55 seconds grew by 22% to 1,633 cr as compared to 1,343 11:02 11 minutes, 2 seconds cr last year. Abita margin before forex fluctuation grew by 30 basis points and 11:08 11 minutes, 8 seconds stood at 11% from 10.7% last year. Abita before forex fluctuation in absolute 11:15 11 minutes, 15 seconds term grew by 21% to 334 cr in comparison to 276 cr 11:22 11 minutes, 22 seconds previous year. Our net profit was down by 18% to 56 cr in this year as against 11:29 11 minutes, 29 seconds 68 cr in the last year. This was due to operational uh losses in the chipboard and higher interest and depreciation for 11:38 11 minutes, 38 seconds the chipboard which is the first full year of operation. 11:43 11 minutes, 43 seconds Now I'll move on to segmental performance. Laminate analyze revenue for the quarter 4 g by 14%. 11:52 11 minutes, 52 seconds on yearon-year basis to 658 cr from 575 cr in the Q4 last year margin 12:01 12 minutes, 1 second before forex fluctuation stood at 17.2% a growth of 350 basis point on yearon-year basis production volume 12:10 12 minutes, 10 seconds stood at 4.87 million sheets and at a utilization level of 79%. 12:17 12 minutes, 17 seconds Sales volume for the quarter stood at 5.15 million seats grew by 4.5% on yearon-year basis. Our average 12:26 12 minutes, 26 seconds realization for the quarter stood at 1,243 cr 243 per year 12:34 12 minutes, 34 seconds for the year as a whole. Laminate revenue grew by 9.3%. 12:39 12 minutes, 39 seconds And stood at 24,433 crata margin before forex fluctuation stood at 12:46 12 minutes, 46 seconds 15.9% a growth of 210 basis point on year-on-year basis. Production volume 12:53 12 minutes, 53 seconds were at were at 21.01 million sheets and at a utilization level of 86%. 13:00 13 minutes Sales volume for the US was 20.65 65 million sheets and grew by 4.6% on year-on-year basis. Our average 13:09 13 minutes, 9 seconds realization for the year stood at 1,144 per sheet. 13:16 13 minutes, 16 seconds Now I'll move to another segment which is plywood and allite. This consists of plywood, decorative veneer, engineer floors and engineer boards. 13:25 13 minutes, 25 seconds Revenue of this segment grew by 18% on year-on-year basis to 119 cr in this 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds quarter from 101 cr in quarter 4 last year. Abit loss before forex fluctuation 13:38 13 minutes, 38 seconds stood at 3.8 cr for the full year for the full financial year revenue grew by 18.4% on 13:46 13 minutes, 46 seconds year-on-year basis and stood at 400 cr in this year from 338 cr in the last 13:53 13 minutes, 53 seconds year. Abit loss before forex fluctuation is stood at 29.5 cr. Now I'll move to 14:00 14 minutes another segment which is panel analy this consists of chipboard for the quarter four chipboard revenue grew by 14:07 14 minutes, 7 seconds 47% on quarter quart on quarteronquarter basis to 80 cr in this quarter. There is 14:14 14 minutes, 14 seconds no year-on-year figure because it was it was launched towards the end of last year. 14:21 14 minutes, 21 seconds Abit loss for the forex fluctu before forex fluctuation stood at 2.2 cr. 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds Production volume stood at 35,300 cubic meter at a utilization level of 49%. This is the highest utilization 14:35 14 minutes, 35 seconds level in the last year. Sales volume for the quarter stood at 38,800 cubic m a 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds growth of 34% on quarteron quarter basis. Our average realization for the quarter was at 20,562 per cubic meter. 14:54 14 minutes, 54 seconds Move on to annual performance. Chipboard revenue for the year stood at 213 cr. 15:02 15 minutes, 2 seconds ATA loss before forex fluctuation stood at 23 cr. Production and volume were at 1 lakh 13,450 kilome and at a utilization of 39%. 15:14 15 minutes, 14 seconds Sales volume for the year stood at around 1 lakh 10,000 cubic m and at a 15:21 15 minutes, 21 seconds average realization of 19,370 per kilometer. 15:27 15 minutes, 27 seconds Move on to some of the balance sheet item. In the current quarter working capital cycle improved by 4 days and stood at 51 days as compared to 55 days 15:36 15 minutes, 36 seconds in the quarter 4 last year. For the full year working capital cycle stood at similar level of 57 days despite new 15:44 15 minutes, 44 seconds business of chipboard which do addit which was at the full year in this year. 15:49 15 minutes, 49 seconds Net debt as on 31st March is showed at 2020 as on 31st March 2026 was 940 cr. 15:58 15 minutes, 58 seconds We were able to reduce the debt by close to around 50 cr in this year. 16:04 16 minutes, 4 seconds That's all from my side and now we will open the floor for the question and answer. Thank you. 16:10 16 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. 16:20 16 minutes, 20 seconds If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use 16:27 16 minutes, 27 seconds handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question Q assembles. 16:39 16 minutes, 39 seconds The first question comes from the line of Deepak Ajira with IG India. Please go ahead. 16:59 16 minutes, 59 seconds Hello. Am I audition? 17:14 17 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah. So I would like to know that uh uh what is our what the growth we are expecting in the laminate 17:21 17 minutes, 21 seconds uh uh segment and uh uh are we outpacing the industry and if so and what are the 17:28 17 minutes, 28 seconds results so I think we should expect a like a 10 17:39 17 minutes, 39 seconds 12% kind of a topline growth laminates in FI27 in that range Are we outpacing the industry? 17:47 17 minutes, 47 seconds Maybe yes, you know, but can't kind of authenticate that data. Uh 17:54 17 minutes, 54 seconds and what are the reasons? I think just distribution, product range, uh a decent presence across both international and uh domestic markets. Yeah. 18:07 18 minutes, 7 seconds And uh uh are we looking for any newer export geography? 18:14 18 minutes, 14 seconds So we already are present in about 120 odd countries now. So we are not necessarily looking at new geographies 18:22 18 minutes, 22 seconds you know at this moment. I think we're looking at deepening our presence in the markets. We've already opened might add one or two countries here and there but 18:29 18 minutes, 29 seconds nothing nothing very significant you know for FI27 as far as the laminates export is concerned. 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds Oops. Thank you. 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds The next question comes from the line of Priya Pulkarnney with BN Capital. Please go ahead. 18:57 18 minutes, 57 seconds Hello sir. Uh thank you for giving me this opportunity. So my question is on the playwood business. uh like our 19:05 19 minutes, 5 seconds realization in FI26 was around uh 5 uh 557 uh with this business maturing in next 19:12 19 minutes, 12 seconds couple of years. What are your expectations on the realization trend like uh will it move up from here or stabilize? Could you just throw light on this? 19:24 19 minutes, 24 seconds I'm I'm so sorry. Which business did you say please? Priya, can you come on that again? Sorry. 19:30 19 minutes, 30 seconds Can you just Which business are you asking this for? Plywood business sir. Yes. Okay. Plywood. Okay. Yeah. 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds So supply valuation in Q4 was 246 rupees a me². 19:50 19 minutes, 50 seconds Yes sir. And for the yeah for the year was 257. 19:54 19 minutes, 54 seconds So so what is your question? Are we looking at will the relation improve? Is that what you're saying? Uh so sir my question is like uh with this business 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds maturing in next couple of years what are your uh yeah expect uh like uh expectations on the realization front. 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds So resolution in in the ply business you know may not go up you know in any 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds significant manner. I think probably it'll be in a similar you know space because we'll be increasing volumes and 20:25 20 minutes, 25 seconds uh and the and the volumes may increase in the uh you know in not only the premium segment but the you know in the 20:33 20 minutes, 33 seconds lower segment of the premium categories we are present in we're not present in the tier 2 category at the moment. So even with the existing product range my 20:41 20 minutes, 41 seconds sense is the the relation may not improve uh or will not improve in any significant manner. We already at nearly 20:50 20 minutes, 50 seconds top of the relation in the category in in the market. So I think it'll be similarly in this space maybe few percent points you know around the existing figure. 21:02 21 minutes, 2 seconds Okay sir understood. Thank you. 21:05 21 minutes, 5 seconds A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. 21:14 21 minutes, 14 seconds The next question comes from the line of simmer Singh with PS securities. Please go ahead. 21:21 21 minutes, 21 seconds Hello. Hi sir. So my question is to what is your views on the competition in the laminates in the domestic and international business? 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds So when you say view like sorry you complete a question go ahead sorry hello am I audible 21:39 21 minutes, 39 seconds yes yes yes yeah so my question is uh what's your view on the competition in the laminates in the domestic and international 21:47 21 minutes, 47 seconds business so when you say view like what do you want to understand who are the players 21:54 21 minutes, 54 seconds in the market or what's the what would you like me to you know help you understand what is the player else and what is the market scenario? 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds So market is quite dynamic uh in the the domestic market obviously the market is 22:12 22 minutes, 12 seconds large and and we have both organized players you know panindia players regional players as well as players who 22:19 22 minutes, 19 seconds are unorganized who are playing in the lower segment in the unorganized segment and I think 22:26 22 minutes, 26 seconds the our closest competitor is probably at the similar size as we are in the domestic market uh internationally we compete with the regional uh you know players in those markets we operate in. 22:38 22 minutes, 38 seconds We compete with the global players like WSAD and Formica group. At times we compete with the exporters from India 22:44 22 minutes, 44 seconds also. So I I I think it depends on every geography on who who the competition is. 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds What I can say is that in the domestic market or as laminate production or laminate companies, the larger 23:00 23 minutes companies, you know, are winning more market share versus the unorganized or the midsize companies. And I and I think the midsize companies and the, you know, 23:08 23 minutes, 8 seconds unorganized players or what I understand, you know, are under tremendous pressure in terms of costs, price points, cash flows, etc. uh and 23:18 23 minutes, 18 seconds the industry is gradually getting you know consolidated and larger companies are getting better. uh internationally 23:25 23 minutes, 25 seconds not too much capacities are being added and in many markets the capacities are more or less fixed and that's why you see you know exports from India 23:33 23 minutes, 33 seconds gradually increasing year on year in both quantity and value and we end up winning more market share because of product quality and certification etc 23:42 23 minutes, 42 seconds are if not are at par or slightly you know lower than the international players. 23:49 23 minutes, 49 seconds Okay, got it. Got it. Thank you so much. 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds Participants please press star and one to ask a question. 24:02 24 minutes, 2 seconds The next question comes from the line of SNA with Noama Wealth Management. Please go ahead. 24:08 24 minutes, 8 seconds Hi, good afternoon team and thanks a lot for the opportunity. Just couple of questions from my end. Uh firstly on the demand front given that you know across 24:16 24 minutes, 16 seconds the board we've seen significant increase in realization uh you know increase in prices. So uh thanks to the sharp movement in the raw material 24:24 24 minutes, 24 seconds prices what is the impact on ground that we seeing on the demand across our board products be plywood be particle board be laminates. 24:32 24 minutes, 32 seconds So uh when you say that because prices start the price increases were implemented practically from April 24:40 24 minutes, 40 seconds because we March went without pricing the communication was done but actual implementation happened in the month of 24:48 24 minutes, 48 seconds April. So for the last 2 months I I think it's been okay you know it's not we've not seen uh as a as a company 24:56 24 minutes, 56 seconds we've not seen you know uh demand destruction or low demand. what we hear from the market that secondary sales are 25:05 25 minutes, 5 seconds a bit weak. Cash flows you know are a bit tight. Some people want to postpone projects. So this is a communication we 25:12 25 minutes, 12 seconds hear you know from the market is a certain sense of uncertaintity and because depending on the category one or two increases have happened and people 25:21 25 minutes, 21 seconds have stocked up material also know so people are uncertain on how things will you know shape up some people think RM cost will come down so they don't want 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds to further you know stocking they just buy what they need for the completion of projects so so I would say mixed kind of information is coming on that side uh on 25:38 25 minutes, 38 seconds the supply side at least in March and April uh we believe there was supply disruption from the unorganized or 25:46 25 minutes, 46 seconds midsize companies in plywood in particle board and also in laminates uh so you know gradually I think that's also 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds getting stabilized because now we don't have availability issues in the in the chemicals yes costs are still elevated 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds so don't I I can't give you much like exact clarity in what's going on but it's it's a mixed bag you know on what we hear from the market. 26:14 26 minutes, 14 seconds Got that. And on the flywood front, you know, what's your guidance in terms of utilization levels? Where are we at this 26:21 26 minutes, 21 seconds point of time and where do we see our, you know, utilization levels in 2728 and in the part you know private 26:29 26 minutes, 29 seconds division itself any plans of getting into mig category? Of course I understand we are right onto the premium and category itself. 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds Right. Right. No. So, so ply like Q4 the Q3 obviously apply sales was weak and there was some disruption due to certain 26:43 26 minutes, 43 seconds certification issues. Q4 since the certification is got resolved we had a good sales in you know March and part of 26:50 26 minutes, 50 seconds February you know in in relation was also good mix was good the volumes went up so so right now as you probably know that we are still not present pan India 26:59 26 minutes, 59 seconds and even in FI27 will not be pan India so we'll just be focused on the markets we have opened in the last we've been in the business for about 2 and a half 27:06 27 minutes, 6 seconds years now so we are not looking at adding new geographies in FI27 we want to you know improve our presence and bring bring in more revenues from the 27:15 27 minutes, 15 seconds markets we've opened. So my sense is maybe FI208 it will go pan India uh for for the plywood. So if you look at 27:22 27 minutes, 22 seconds utilization Q4 we were nearly at a 45 50% you know kind of a utilization and 27:29 27 minutes, 29 seconds we hope this will improve you know this year meaningfully and probably by FI28 27:35 27 minutes, 35 seconds we should come to a near full capacity utilization of the existing plant or near full capacity utilization of the 27:43 27 minutes, 43 seconds existing plant. As far as the tier 2 category or mid price at the moment, that's not uh an area we're looking at 27:51 27 minutes, 51 seconds because we haven't gone pan India one. I think it's too early for us to mention that because we still need to stabilize our you know premium category in a 27:58 27 minutes, 58 seconds premium brand. So this is the way we are thinking on the plywood business. 28:07 28 minutes, 7 seconds Does that answer your question? 28:10 28 minutes, 10 seconds Oh, that does uh I'm sorry the lastly if I may this last question on the chipboard segment of yours um what is 28:18 28 minutes, 18 seconds the portion that we have pre-laminated at this point of time and if at all you could mention the same thing that you know where are you in terms of overall 28:26 28 minutes, 26 seconds utilization how do we see this engine up for next two years and especially the share of you know the pre-laminated sales where are we and where do we see 28:34 28 minutes, 34 seconds that going up so Ashok asked me not to answer the share of prelam So I would I cannot do that. What what I can sorry 28:43 28 minutes, 43 seconds I'll share with you share with you offline. So but what I can say is that uh our share of prelam is going up and 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds as as we've said in the past in particle board and with the quality we're achieving uh for the plane board we can 29:00 29 minutes go up to you know nearly 100% of Russian to be laminated and that's so that's our uh you know ambition and uh each each 29:09 29 minutes, 9 seconds month we're getting better and I think we have a fairly high you know percent of pre lamination boards already and even in pre- lamination I announced it 29:17 29 minutes, 17 seconds earlier. We'll still be introducing more products in this category which countries not had in the past which have done done well in Europe. So now also 29:25 29 minutes, 25 seconds like we did HMR in Q3 last last quarter we launched although in a smaller way matching edgeband to all our freel 29:33 29 minutes, 33 seconds particle boards. So we will be we will be uh implementing our uh ideas on innovation and product finishes and you 29:41 29 minutes, 41 seconds know you know textures and different deco papers etc in the range as far as 29:48 29 minutes, 48 seconds utilization is concerned Q4 we were nearly 50% uh utilization in the chipboard business and I think we 29:56 29 minutes, 56 seconds should keep improving you know as we keep as we move ahead God bless. God bless. Thanks. Thanks. 30:04 30 minutes, 4 seconds Thanks a lot and all the best. 30:08 30 minutes, 8 seconds The next question comes from the line of Rishies Bhagat with Kotak Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. 30:15 30 minutes, 15 seconds Hi. Uh good evening. Uh so just on laminate side, how what will be could be our peak utilization on the current uh 30:24 30 minutes, 24 seconds installed capacity? We ended with 86% for 26. So how should we think in terms of peak utilization 30:32 30 minutes, 32 seconds at the optimum mix in terms of large small yeah uh if the in the past we have gone 30:40 30 minutes, 40 seconds up to like 108 110% on on a annual basis kind of a thing of course in some months it can be higher 30:47 30 minutes, 47 seconds than that also but uh we can we can cut around 108 110% but that will depend 30:56 30 minutes, 56 seconds upon the product mix uh kind of Sure. 31:01 31 minutes, 1 second Sure. Now the idea is that if you uh let's say will do you feel there's a need to undertake next leg of expansion in this 31:10 31 minutes, 10 seconds product category considering you are already inching up fairly ended with a fairly high utilization probably next not immediately but let's say 6 n months 31:18 31 minutes, 18 seconds down the line. Yeah, we don't think that is needed as of now. As you know, we have already announced uh 2 million 31:27 31 minutes, 27 seconds capacity which will be which will come in towards the end of this year. We believe that should be enough for uh enough for at least for next year and at 31:36 31 minutes, 36 seconds 86% utilization we still have close to around 20% capacity available. So we believe that should be enough for us for at least till the next financial year. 31:47 31 minutes, 47 seconds Of course we keep this reviewing on every quarter on quarter basis and as and when if the need arises we will we will take that call. 31:56 31 minutes, 56 seconds Okay. 31:57 31 minutes, 57 seconds And since this will happen as a brown field at one of the existing [clears throat] location either at the 32:04 32 minutes, 4 seconds uh in the south or at the Gujarat plant it will take in comparison to a green field shorter time. 32:11 32 minutes, 11 seconds Okay. Thank you. Thank you. 32:16 32 minutes, 16 seconds A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. 32:23 32 minutes, 23 seconds The next question comes from the line of Shri Mulchandani with Iky Asset Management. Please go ahead. 32:31 32 minutes, 31 seconds Um, hi sir, good evening. Thank you uh for the opportunity. So I just wanted to that in Q4 and 11 minutes we have done a 32:39 32 minutes, 39 seconds pretty good margin. We closed around 17 17.2%. I just wanted to understand what's your view on margins you know two 32:47 32 minutes, 47 seconds two to three years down the line um that includes all your segments. So how are we looking at lemons? Will we be able to sustain the Q4 exit rate? And in terms 32:56 32 minutes, 56 seconds of plywood and particle boards, when do we expect break even and when do we expect them to positively contribute to our EDITA um going ahead? 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds Hi Si. So uh as you rightly said laminate margin was 17% for this quarter and around 16% for this for the full 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds year. We expect laminate laminate to perform in the similar manner and uh going forward maybe over a period of 33:26 33 minutes, 26 seconds time it it may go up also but as of now we can safely presume it's around 16 17% 33:32 33 minutes, 32 seconds margin uh for the laminate and for the other uh as you rightly pointed out this 33:40 33 minutes, 40 seconds uh plywood and chipboard we will we are very close to break even in fact in the 33:47 33 minutes, 47 seconds chipboard uh The quarter four loss was come down substantially and it was around 2 cr only and as we have said in 33:54 33 minutes, 54 seconds the past that around 50% utilization we will we will be breaking even so we expect that break even to happen in this 34:01 34 minutes, 1 second financial year and uh and they may contribute in terms of positive margin and going forward as in when the as in 34:10 34 minutes, 10 seconds when the revenue get increases or the capacity utilization increases we expect them to contribute uh to the overall 34:18 34 minutes, 18 seconds margin and for ply yes ply also that's what plywood and 34:25 34 minutes, 25 seconds chipboard we both we expect both of these segments to break even in this uh financial years okay okay 34:34 34 minutes, 34 seconds and so additionally I have been hearing that some of the particle board plants in India are considering to be converted to MDF given that you know uh particle 34:44 34 minutes, 44 seconds economics are not favorable as MDF so have you been hearing anything along these lines and uh if if in case that's true then how do you see the competitive 34:53 34 minutes, 53 seconds in intensity shaping up for the next uh to three years. 34:58 34 minutes, 58 seconds So so did you say that shipboard particular plants are getting converted to MDF? Is that what you're saying? 35:05 35 minutes, 5 seconds Uh yeah I've been hearing um around these lines something. 35:11 35 minutes, 11 seconds So I've not heard that. So are you saying the same plants are being converted or people are putting up more MBF capacities or not particle board like what what is the question? 35:22 35 minutes, 22 seconds Uh the particle board dresses are being converted to MBF. I don't know if that's technically possible but I've been hearing this so thought I would check with you on WhatsApp. Sure. 35:32 35 minutes, 32 seconds So I'm not aware of you know any such development if knows. 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds So Si whatever we know and till now we have not come across any situation where in the same uh because both our products 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds and process are little bit different. So wherein the same plant get converted into MDF at least we not come across 35:54 35 minutes, 54 seconds in theory the press is possible but the process is not like so in theory if one wants to do it just a very 36:03 36 minutes, 3 seconds so we have not come across any such a situation as of now but having asked that question uh let me inform you that the chipboard the 36:12 36 minutes, 12 seconds participle market uh is projected to undergo meaningful full growth considering uh you know the QCO 36:21 36 minutes, 21 seconds implementation for furniture manufacturing you know of furniture products uh in India and for most of the 36:29 36 minutes, 29 seconds flat applications you know commercial application shop fit outs office furniture even residential furniture like wardrobes you know and some parts 36:37 36 minutes, 37 seconds of kitchens also management chipboard will will keep winning market share we've seen that uh uh in Europe also and 36:45 36 minutes, 45 seconds many other markets that chipboard gradually over the period of time has become one of the largest uh substrate 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds or panel you know product um understood sir so uh lastly what's 36:59 36 minutes, 59 seconds your mix between B2B and B2C in chipboard so uh Si actually this entire things 37:09 37 minutes, 9 seconds goes to the uh goes to the uh I will say directly some we sell directly to the OEM other we will be selling to the 37:17 37 minutes, 17 seconds distributor but it will go to smaller kind of a OEM or contractor. So as of 37:25 37 minutes, 25 seconds now it's a very initial stage so it will be difficult to say from the distributor whether it is good where it is it's not 37:31 37 minutes, 31 seconds a retail product per as like a carpenter can use it even though a small 37:38 37 minutes, 38 seconds contractor can use it but I I I think more time will be needed to just to understand exactly where it is going but 37:46 37 minutes, 46 seconds as of now you can say that mostly it is being used into the OEM segment and furniture segment. So most of the usage 37:54 37 minutes, 54 seconds of chipboard goes to a workshop to a furniture manufacturer OEM and just 38:02 38 minutes, 2 seconds acknowledge that in in our country carpentry is increasingly becoming offsite uh panel panel products are 38:12 38 minutes, 12 seconds being produced finished you know in a small or a large or mediumsiz factory setup and being installed on the site. 38:19 38 minutes, 19 seconds Uh so so carpentry at the site is is not growing. Carpentry offsite in a factory setting is is is uh increasingly 38:28 38 minutes, 28 seconds growing. So we increasingly see more and more furniture and parts of furniture being produced in a factory setting. 38:34 38 minutes, 34 seconds Even wardrobes, you know, kitchens, doors obviously also we see a shop fit outs in any finished panel. We increasingly see that happening at the market. 38:43 38 minutes, 43 seconds Understood. Understood. Um that's it from my side. Thank you. 38:49 38 minutes, 49 seconds The next question comes from the line of Jigar Sha with Elevator Research. Please go ahead. 38:55 38 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Hi sir, sir. I just I have just one question. So if the West Asia war continues to put pressure on the prices, so would you see slowdown on the demand side of the laminate laminates business? 39:08 39 minutes, 8 seconds No. Uh so demand side in India exports or Middle East or just generally is it is it a general uh question? 39:18 39 minutes, 18 seconds No jig are you asking like demand side generally across all the markets or a particular market? 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds No no no across all markets in so I'm not so sure because we have 39:30 39 minutes, 30 seconds increased prices and then like I said earlier some roll back has happened on 39:37 39 minutes, 37 seconds the RM costs of chemicals and some minor corrections have also been done in the market. 39:43 39 minutes, 43 seconds Logically there could be a demand you know slowdown in in the market because if prices go up 39:50 39 minutes, 50 seconds you know demand comes down you know that's logic but I'm not so sure how is going to impact us like I said supply 39:58 39 minutes, 58 seconds set disruption has also been there so so not not too clear you know could be because all building metal costs have 40:06 40 minutes, 6 seconds gone up steel cement paints laminates plywood chipboard so I think one has to see how that whole demand situation you know is prevailing in the market. 40:20 40 minutes, 20 seconds Got it. Got it. Thanks. 40:23 40 minutes, 23 seconds The next question comes from the line of Sonat Sayar Raju an individual investor. Please go ahead. 40:30 40 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah. Thank you for taking up my question. I just have one question. So we've seen that you're doing capeex on the laminates front and likewise other 40:38 40 minutes, 38 seconds companies have been doing capex on the laminates front and if this west area war hadn't taken place then would you 40:46 40 minutes, 46 seconds have uh did you anticipate some kind of an industry tailwind or a demand surge 40:53 40 minutes, 53 seconds for laminates so like we we undertaking two lines of 41:01 41 minutes, 1 second laminates cap I'm not sure How many other people are expanding in our industry at this point? Maybe one or two more adding few more capacities. Now the 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds the products we will produce from these lines are largely going to be for the international markets and more specifically for the European markets 41:18 41 minutes, 18 seconds and uh so you said so are you saying so what was the exact question you asked please? 41:27 41 minutes, 27 seconds Yes. Had it not been for this war generally did you uh uh was there an anticipation for a demand surge uh 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds overall in the overall market and also for the European market sir because we've seen that other players who've been servicing the European 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds market on the laminates front even they've been adding uh more capacity now so it's not too many people serving 41:53 41 minutes, 53 seconds European market from India maybe four or five companies so the the international market and European market in specific 42:01 42 minutes, 1 second there there is not much organic growth happening there. We are winning market share you know from the local producers 42:07 42 minutes, 7 seconds in those geographies or maybe exporters into Europe from nearby markets. So uh our positioning in Europe is quite 42:16 42 minutes, 16 seconds strong with two warehouses one in Italy one in Germany. We have our own teams in Germany, Italy, uh Spain, Poland, 42:24 42 minutes, 24 seconds Romania. So we're well spread across the market. So our our expansion is is more in line with our customers and our 42:33 42 minutes, 33 seconds market opportunity. Uh and demand surge like in laminates you don't have like big demand. So I think it's just more like an inch by inch kind of a business 42:41 42 minutes, 41 seconds model where you keep winning market share you know basis your distribution setup and your product offering supply chain. While some companies are growing, 42:50 42 minutes, 50 seconds there are enough and more companies who are losing market share, you know, and who are not able to grow the business. 42:55 42 minutes, 55 seconds So I think in European market the organic growth is not happening. We are winning market share, you know, with our product offering, with our distribution, 43:03 43 minutes, 3 seconds you know, with our working in the market. I think that that's a story. So were we expecting a demand search? Maybe not. Yeah. 43:10 43 minutes, 10 seconds Okay. Got. So that's on the industry level. there's no uh demand surge but as a company uh they growing by the Got it. 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds Correct. I think it's more companies. Okay. Got it. That answers my question. Thank you. 43:27 43 minutes, 27 seconds Thank you. 43:29 43 minutes, 29 seconds The next question comes from the line of Rahul Singh an individual investor. Please go ahead. 43:35 43 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. Good evening and thanks for the opportunity. 43:38 43 minutes, 38 seconds I just want to ask like how do you see the current geopolitical scenario affecting do you see it as as a crisis 43:46 43 minutes, 46 seconds or you see it as an opportunity going ahead when the situation normalizes also uh what's your view on demand uh 43:55 43 minutes, 55 seconds per se domestically compared to uh outside of India with the our focus on consumption and per capita income rising 44:03 44 minutes, 3 seconds do you see the uh demand for products increasing domestically also in the near future. Yeah. So, thank you for your question. 44:12 44 minutes, 12 seconds So, clearly we see this as an opportunity and we've always done that in the past also. Whenever there's been a problem or a crisis, I think we've won 44:19 44 minutes, 19 seconds market share in both domestic and international market and I sincerely hope you know this happens because you're well positioned with our teams in 44:27 44 minutes, 27 seconds you know inventory people uh our product range etc. So clearly we see this as a positive more more than a crisis and I 44:34 44 minutes, 34 seconds think even in the month of March and probably even in April my sense is we must have won market share on ground domestic and international I think two 44:43 44 minutes, 43 seconds different geographies domestic our approach is along with laminates we're also doing more categories so I think in both the geographies we are pretty well 44:50 44 minutes, 50 seconds positioned and we expect you know business to grow in both the geographies the international market across so many markets and also in the domestic market. 45:00 45 minutes Yeah. 45:03 45 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah. Thanks for clarifying. Thank you so much. 45:06 45 minutes, 6 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks. 45:18 45 minutes, 18 seconds Thank you everyone for joining the call today. For any further query, you can get in touch with us or SGA, our 45:25 45 minutes, 25 seconds investor relation advisor. See you all in the next conference call. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. 45:34 45 minutes, 34 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Green Lim Industries, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.