eMudhra Limited — Q3 FY26

eMudhra Ltd Q3 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl4yxrq5Ws8 Published: 3 months ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to E-Mudra Limited Q3 and 9 0:07 7 seconds months FI26 earnings conference call hosted by Ahant Capital Markets Limited. 0:14 14 seconds As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to 0:22 22 seconds ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please 0:30 30 seconds signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being 0:38 38 seconds recorded. I now hand the conference over to Miss Joti Singh from Ahan's Capital Markets Limited. Thank you and over to you ma'am. 0:48 48 seconds Thank you. Hello and good evening to everyone. On behalf of Aryan Capital, I thank you all for joining into the Q3 0:55 55 seconds and 9 month FY26 earning conference call of Amudra Olympic. Today from the management side, we have Mr. Winkit 1:03 1 minute, 3 seconds Raman Nashan. He is the executive chairman. Mr. Resani, he's the chief financial officer. So without any further delay, I will hand over the call for opening remark. 1:14 1 minute, 14 seconds Sir, please go ahead. Over to you, sir. 1:19 1 minute, 19 seconds Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us today. It's a pleasure to address you and share Mudra's performance for the third 1:28 1 minute, 28 seconds quarter and 9 months ended uh FI 2026 along with the key business developments across our global digital trust and 1:36 1 minute, 36 seconds cyber security portfolio. During the quarter, our performance reflected steady execution across products and 1:44 1 minute, 44 seconds geographies supported by a more balanced revenue mix. Total income for Q3 FI26 1:51 1 minute, 51 seconds was INR 1 1911 million representing a year-on-year growth of 35.6%. 1:58 1 minute, 58 seconds Aida for the quarter was INR 441 million with a margin of 23.1%. 2:04 2 minutes, 4 seconds While net profit was 290 million translating a net margin of 15.2%. 2:10 2 minutes, 10 seconds Growth during the quarter was driven by increased productled revenues across markets which helped offset software growth and margin pressure in the US 2:18 2 minutes, 18 seconds services business. Europe contributed more meaningfully following the crypto acquisition improving overall margin 2:26 2 minutes, 26 seconds quality. From a regulatory and demand perspective, global cyber security and compliance mandates continue to support adoption across our platforms. 2:37 2 minutes, 37 seconds Frameworks such as NISTU and Dora are reinforcing demand for certificate life cycle management and identity and access 2:45 2 minutes, 45 seconds management solutions particularly among regulated enterprises in Europe. These regulations are accelerating investments 2:54 2 minutes, 54 seconds in compliant trust and security infrastructure creating sustained opportunities for our offerings in e 3:02 3 minutes, 2 seconds signature and paperless workflows. Our focus to positioning in the banking and financial services 3:09 3 minutes, 9 seconds segment is delivering consistent results across India, Middle East and Asia Pacific. Transaction volumes in India 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds have increased across retail banking and capital market use cases supported by wider digital onboarding and documentation programs. We are also 3:27 3 minutes, 27 seconds seeing increased traction through partnerled distribution of these solutions. On the infrastructure front, 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds our US data centers are now live and are enabling local TLS certificate issuance and life cycle management for North 3:42 3 minutes, 42 seconds American customers. This improves turnaround time, supports local compliance requirements and strengthens enterprise adoption in that region. 3:53 3 minutes, 53 seconds In [clears throat] the Middle East, recent changes in UAE trust service provider guidelines are increasing the need for incountry trust infrastructure 4:01 4 minutes, 1 second and we are progressing on setting up a local data center to support government and BFSA opportunities. Integration 4:08 4 minutes, 8 seconds efforts related to our recent acquisitions are also moving ahead. The crypto's product portfolio is being 4:16 4 minutes, 16 seconds aligned with our broader EAS focused trust stack and we are working on crossell opportunities across European 4:22 4 minutes, 22 seconds and non-European markets. AI cyber force secret management engine [clears throat] has been integrated into our platforms 4:31 4 minutes, 31 seconds strengthening our capabilities across certificate life cycle and identity environments and the entity has been 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds amalgamated with our US auxiliary mudra inc. Now let me share some of the key project wins and customer engagement 4:45 4 minutes, 45 seconds during the quarter. Certificate life cycle management win across IoT and enterprise authentication use cases in 4:52 4 minutes, 52 seconds the US. Renewal and upsel of certificate life cycle management with strong authentication across large energy CPG 5:00 5 minutes and financial services customers in dash region in Europe. First e signature workflow roll out for a large bank in 5:07 5 minutes, 7 seconds OMA. Then large scale CLM and identity and access management deployment across defense agencies in India. CLM 5:16 5 minutes, 16 seconds implementations across central banks and leading banks in the Philippines and Indonesia. Continued increase in eign 5:23 5 minutes, 23 seconds and east stamping adoption in India across banking and financial servicesdriven digitization programs. Overall the 5:32 5 minutes, 32 seconds quarter reflects continued progress across execution, product development and geographical expansion with 5:39 5 minutes, 39 seconds improving contribution from Europe, growing productled revenues and sustained investments in identity security and compliance platforms. We 5:48 5 minutes, 48 seconds remain focused on building scale in a disciplined manner while strengthening our global positioning. Looking ahead, 5:55 5 minutes, 55 seconds our product development road map continues to focus on converged identity, advanced certificate life cycle management, privacy-led data discovery and postquantum cryptography. 6:07 6 minutes, 7 seconds Early deployment of postquantum and privacy discovery capabilities are underway with regulated enterprises 6:14 6 minutes, 14 seconds where these solutions are being tested in live environments for compliance and risk management use cases. With that I 6:22 6 minutes, 22 seconds would now like to invite Mr. Rites Shad Pirani our CFO to take you through the financial performance in greater detail. 6:29 6 minutes, 29 seconds Thank you. 6:32 6 minutes, 32 seconds Thank you chairman. Good afternoon everyone. I'm pleased to share the highlights of our Q3 and 9month financial year 2026 financial performance. 6:43 6 minutes, 43 seconds Our total income for quarter 3 financial year 2026 was INR 1,911 million making a 6:50 6 minutes, 50 seconds 35.6% year-over-year growth. Gross profit for the quarter grew 42.6% year-over-year to INR 109 million with a margin of 53.4%. 7:01 7 minutes, 1 second IBIDA for the quarter was INR 441 million resisting a 38.2% year-over-year growth with a margin of 23.1%. 7:10 7 minutes, 10 seconds Profit after tax for the quarter was INRA 290 million reflecting a 29.5% year-over-year growth with a margin of 15.2%. 7:20 7 minutes, 20 seconds Now turning to the 9 months financial year 2026 performance total income reach INR 5,166 million representing a 36.5% 7:28 7 minutes, 28 seconds year-over-year growth. The enterby solution segment generated a revenue of INR 479 million while the trust service revenue 7:36 7 minutes, 36 seconds is 1,3 million. Ibida was INR 1,255 million resisting a 31.8% 7:43 7 minutes, 43 seconds year-over-year growth with a margin of 24.3% while PET was INR 85 million growing 28% year-over-year with a margin of 15.6%. 7:55 7 minutes, 55 seconds That concludes my remark. Thank you. And we may now open the floor for the question and answer session. 8:02 8 minutes, 2 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may please 8:10 8 minutes, 10 seconds press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you 8:17 8 minutes, 17 seconds may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a 8:24 8 minutes, 24 seconds question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question cue assembles. 8:40 8 minutes, 40 seconds The first question is from the line of Rishi Maheshwari from AXA Capital. Please go ahead. 8:49 8 minutes, 49 seconds Hi, congratulations to the management. 8:51 8 minutes, 51 seconds Good set of numbers. Uh I had two questions. Uh firstly sir uh to understand that US uh has in your 8:59 8 minutes, 59 seconds prepared remarks you had mentioned reduced growth and margins from the US. 9:03 9 minutes, 3 seconds Now well in the last quarter call you had indicated that you were chasing seven big customers and signed five six major customers two three of them would have come in the in this quarter itself. 9:13 9 minutes, 13 seconds So uh what had changed during the quarter along with if if you can also highlight uh the quarterly numbers that 9:21 9 minutes, 21 seconds you have aggregated from cryptos as well as uh AI cyber forge. 9:28 9 minutes, 28 seconds Yeah, US has not declined. US almost remained the same compared to last quarter. It is not declined. So that is 9:36 9 minutes, 36 seconds that is one thing. Then the customers what we have signed they continue but over a period they will earn the revenue not revenue will not come immediately 9:45 9 minutes, 45 seconds because lot of use cases are uh some are onremise use cases some are usage based 9:52 9 minutes, 52 seconds use cases. So that way there is no reduction and we are still working with a number of large customers. So two three customers came one of the customer 10:00 10 minutes we expected last this quarter Q3 quarter might shift to Q4 quarter. So that is where it is. So there is no loss in the 10:08 10 minutes, 8 seconds US business. It continues the same. But the services, US services business, there is no growth. It almost remains 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds stagnant because of the AA and because of the H1 visa problem as I indicated in the last quarter. Then coming to the 10:22 10 minutes, 22 seconds cryptos revenue, the last quarter cryptos revenue in Q2 that is ending September cryptos revenue was around 24 10:30 10 minutes, 30 seconds cr or something like that. Now it has become 34 cr in the uh in the Q3 revenue. So that is the revenue 10:38 10 minutes, 38 seconds contribution from kryptos and we had also indicated there was a loss of 1.6 cr in krypas in Q2 instead of it it is 10:46 10 minutes, 46 seconds now positive at 1 cr or 1.25 to figure cryptos uh crypto spat which is included in the overall consolidated accounts. 10:55 10 minutes, 55 seconds Okay, a cyber forge. A cyber forge we are not selling separately that is integrated even earlier the turnover was 11:03 11 minutes, 3 seconds very less because of the product we acquired the company. So the company has been integrated and amalgamated with Mudra Inc. So that product is also that 11:12 11 minutes, 12 seconds secret engine is also combined with our uh MCA solution and the certain next solution 11:22 11 minutes, 22 seconds because there's no separate tracking of the revenue of the AS labor force. 11:28 11 minutes, 28 seconds Okay. So sir if I have to remove krypton's revenue from this quarter's uh uh total revenue uh which is about 139 11:36 11 minutes, 36 seconds crores I would see that uh um organic growth organic revenue posted in this uh this quarter would be about 105 crores 11:45 11 minutes, 45 seconds uh so which is not uh uh substantial growth over last year uh Q3 FY20 sorry 11:52 11 minutes, 52 seconds how about so sorry so sorry I'm reading the wrong numbers about 188 crores you've posted in this uh if you have to move uh 39 month to 9 months. We will 12:02 12 minutes, 2 seconds compare both. We will do 9 month to 9 month comparison. With kryptos it is almost uh 36% growth. Without kryptos it 12:11 12 minutes, 11 seconds is a 21% growth. Even if you compare 3 months to 3 months with kryptos it is around 35% growth. Without kryptos itself it is 11 to 12% growth. 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds I see. I see. I see. So given this scenario, it seems like you should be able to comfortably beat your uh initial 12:31 12 minutes, 31 seconds organic guidance or initial guidance of about 700 crores. Would you like to revise that number? 12:37 12 minutes, 37 seconds No, no, no. We will not reise you a 700 crores. 12:41 12 minutes, 41 seconds It seems 700 is already in the bag given that uh you've already uh done about 550 560 crores of revenue within the 9 months. 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds 5 not 515 now we are in 516. 516 516. 12:56 12 minutes, 56 seconds So still 190 if we do then we will reach Yeah. So still 180 190 is required. So 13:04 13 minutes, 4 seconds that way if you see Q3 Q3 there were two things. One is it was a year end for crypto. So there is a little more 13:10 13 minutes, 10 seconds revenue in cryptos in in that region. It is a year end. Then in the digital signature business in Q3 again generally 13:19 13 minutes, 19 seconds Q2 is higher but this time little Q3 is higher because the filing season shifted to October end and all those things. So 13:28 13 minutes, 28 seconds that's where it is better to be taking 700 instead of revising the guidance. 13:35 13 minutes, 35 seconds Sure. And margins uh hovering around 23 24% sir. 13:40 13 minutes, 40 seconds Yeah yeah margin and pat margin around 15 and a half 16%. 13:45 13 minutes, 45 seconds But in this another thing we have to observe is a lot of other nonrepetitive item of expenditure also we have to 13:52 13 minutes, 52 seconds observe because of this India is one is this that acquisition cryptos acquisition legal expenses that build 14:00 14 minutes came in the quarter so almost one cr one one cr earlier days those used to be capitalized along with the acquisition 14:07 14 minutes, 7 seconds but nowadays it has to be written off in the P&L and the other thing is the labor laws changed so for the graduity 14:14 14 minutes, 14 seconds extra provision had to be made. So because of all that theida margin came to 23.1 but if you take out all these the adjusted margin is 25.8%. 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds Sorry sir can you repeat that 25.8 is did you say no yeah adjusted if not how much 25.8%. 14:38 14 minutes, 38 seconds It is there in the presentation also. 14:41 14 minutes, 41 seconds Sure, sure, sure. Thank you so much, sir. I'll come back in the queue. Yeah. 14:46 14 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one now. 14:54 14 minutes, 54 seconds Participants who wish to ask questions may please press star and one now. The next question is from the line of Joti 15:02 15 minutes, 2 seconds Singh from Arhant Capital Markets Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. 15:09 15 minutes, 9 seconds Just wanted to understand if you can quantify overseas investment cost embedded in Q3 actor and when do you expect break even at an actor level? 15:21 15 minutes, 21 seconds It is not very clear. Can you repeat the question? Hello. 15:29 15 minutes, 29 seconds Yes sir. 15:30 15 minutes, 30 seconds Can you repeat the question? It was not very clear here. 15:34 15 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. So sir uh can you quantify overseas investment costs embedded in Q3 AETA and when do you expect break even 15:42 15 minutes, 42 seconds at an AETA level and what was the uh average deal size in Q3 against Q2 and how has it trended over the last 12 15:51 15 minutes, 51 seconds month when you say overseas investment in aida I don't understand the question because 15:58 15 minutes, 58 seconds uh the investments are all gone already in the capital acquisition goodwill and all those no so the Aida the investment 16:06 16 minutes, 6 seconds in overseas acquisition is not coming in the AIDA only thing is the the from cryptos that revenue of around like what 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds I said 34 cr is coming and the profit of about 1.4 for our own 1.5 cr is coming. 16:20 16 minutes, 20 seconds So this is what is coming in the aid on the profit and loss for month. Okay. 16:25 16 minutes, 25 seconds Investment has already gone the last quarter. 16:29 16 minutes, 29 seconds Okay. Great sir. And there any material forex impact on revenue or margin during the quarter? 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds No forex impact not much because we are we maintain the foreign currency in the respective countries and 16:45 16 minutes, 45 seconds only in the translation it will come and in the last quarter maybe from 90 to 91 or 92 it has gone 89th or something so 16:53 16 minutes, 53 seconds it may not be very material nothing is like yeah 17:00 17 minutes okay and sir what was the average deal size in Q3 against Q2 and how has been the trend over the past few months. 17:10 17 minutes, 10 seconds No, it depends on different different product. One is the trust services. It's a retail kind of business where every day you are selling for 1,500 rupees. 17:18 17 minutes, 18 seconds Then e sign every e sign 5 rupees. Then if you take the mer deals generally in India it is around 50 lakhs. Then in 17:27 17 minutes, 27 seconds foreign country it will be uh $250 to $500,000 but NCA sat next kind of thing will be $6700,000. 17:35 17 minutes, 35 seconds So each one and the deal sizes remain the same. It is not reducing or increasing much average deal size. 17:44 17 minutes, 44 seconds [clears throat] 17:45 17 minutes, 45 seconds Okay. Thank you so much sir. I will connect you. Yeah. 17:49 17 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you ma'am. The next question is from the line of Akshhat Mahhata from Seven Rivers Holding. Please go ahead. 17:58 17 minutes, 58 seconds Hello sir. Am I audible? Yes. 18:00 18 minutes Yes. Right. So my first question was sir uh in this quarter sir we've uh we've seen some impact on on margin right 18:09 18 minutes, 9 seconds because of you know slowdown or flat growth in US market. So when can we kind of see this numbers you know go back to 18:17 18 minutes, 17 seconds something like a 25% uh 26% margin right this impact you know when can we you know see this uh 18:25 18 minutes, 25 seconds finishing no already the eida margin is 23.1 and adjusted eida is 25.88 day. So that way 18:35 18 minutes, 35 seconds margin is there and the in the US market if you see the product business continues the same like last quarter and gives a very good margin the service 18:43 18 minutes, 43 seconds business where it is stagnant it's also last time I explained that it is due to the H1 visa and various other AI related 18:52 18 minutes, 52 seconds issues and all these the number of people growth in services is not as expected but otherwise the overall 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds margin is already good and we expect to continue with this level of margin. 19:04 19 minutes, 4 seconds So just uh on follow up on that sir when do we see in the next one year that productled you know revenues would outperform your 19:13 19 minutes, 13 seconds services revenue in the US market in the next 12 months or so. 19:18 19 minutes, 18 seconds Next 12 month services revenue may marginally grow but product revenue can considerably grow which may give a better margin. 19:27 19 minutes, 27 seconds So earlier sir your mix was 40 K of services 20 K of you know product revenues from US right can it become the 19:36 19 minutes, 36 seconds reverse in the next one year or so next one year may not be worth but at least product revenue from 20 can go to 19:44 19 minutes, 44 seconds 30 35 question not that reverse means service will not reduce 19:53 19 minutes, 53 seconds service will continue product will Also the second question is do we have any positive or negative impact from the two 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds trade deals that have recently happened with Europe and US? 20:06 20 minutes, 6 seconds What did that can you repeat the question? 20:08 20 minutes, 8 seconds Do we have any impact from the two trade deals that have happened recently with Europe and US? 20:16 20 minutes, 16 seconds No, no, no, no. Because ours is not a kind of a commodity kind of import export which is regulated at customs. 20:24 20 minutes, 24 seconds That's a different matter. Ours is all product kind of thing which is not regulated as of now like that. And and 20:32 20 minutes, 32 seconds another thing is we sell everything from our subsidiaries which are in the respective countries. So when it is 20:40 20 minutes, 40 seconds going to customer it will not be treated as import or export. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. 20:48 20 minutes, 48 seconds Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen to ask question please press star and one. 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds Now participants who wish to ask questions may please press star and one at this time. 21:03 21 minutes, 3 seconds The next question is from the line of Samraat Chadav from Prosperity Wealth Advisor. Please go ahead. 21:11 21 minutes, 11 seconds Uh hi uh good evening. So I have three questions. Uh one is that your revenue basically grew 35.6% 6% year on year got 21:20 21 minutes, 20 seconds up uh with international contributing around 37%. 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds Okay. So how much of this is uh this growth is driven by recurring contracts versus onetime implementation? 21:33 21 minutes, 33 seconds How much is driven by current contracts? Recurring contracts. 21:37 21 minutes, 37 seconds Recurring contracts versus one time revenue. Our revenue 65% is recurring revenue and the others are onetime revenue of license delivery. 21:48 21 minutes, 48 seconds For example, services are predominantly recurring then the trust services are predominantly recurring even out of enterprise and the M or E sign and all 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds these are recurring but wherever we supply to the government and all that it is predominantly license 22:04 22 minutes, 4 seconds okay so around 65% is recurring 65% recurring 35% non-recurring 22:10 22 minutes, 10 seconds okay okay and you have announced your data center in US and UA uh what is the expected status Sorry, 22:19 22 minutes, 19 seconds what is the expected capex for for the data centers in US and UA? 22:25 22 minutes, 25 seconds US already we have installed it was around 15 but actually we didn't spend so much earlier we if you remember we 22:32 22 minutes, 32 seconds had put a data center in Europe then we acquired kryptos then kryptos had a data center because they are 22:40 22 minutes, 40 seconds having a company called prime sign issuing the signature it is in Austria so we closed the Netherland data center and moved all the equipment to US and 22:49 22 minutes, 49 seconds with that only predominantly uh spent put up the data center in US marginally some spending was there then the Middle 22:57 22 minutes, 57 seconds East what happened because earlier Middle East we were operating from the India data center now the UAE has passed a law that you have to operate a trust 23:06 23 minutes, 6 seconds service only from a local data center so that's where we had put up a data center in UAE data center and disaster recovery 23:14 23 minutes, 14 seconds which is about 15 cr and mostly it is spent but again it has to be audited by the auditor approved by the UAE 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds government which is some French audit companies So now those audit has started. So it may take some two months, three months 23:29 23 minutes, 29 seconds for the that audit to complete. Then we can commission until commissioning the UAE people have allowed us to operate 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds out of the India data center because we are the only there. 23:41 23 minutes, 41 seconds Great. Okay. Uh my last one is like in India compliance and property digitalizations are expected to boost the eign 23:49 23 minutes, 49 seconds adoptions. Uh can you quantify the potential of uh somehow your voice your voice is not audible clearly? Okay. Now it's good. 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second Now it's good. Yeah. You you Yeah. You repeat. 24:04 24 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So I was saying that in India the DPD compliance and property digitization is expected to boost the 24:11 24 minutes, 11 seconds eign. Okay. Eign adoption basically. So can you quantify the potential uplift in the trust services revenue uh from these initiatives? 24:22 24 minutes, 22 seconds Yeah, the E sign this year if you see almost the trust service revenue even in n last year I think whole year was 100 24:30 24 minutes, 30 seconds crores this year 9 months itself we have come to 100 cr so yearly revenue could be 120 or 122 like that so at least 25% 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds 22% increase can be there but another thing is the eign because it is going along with the mainer and all that we 24:46 24 minutes, 46 seconds are classifying except the retail eign all the banking eign and fintech eign we are classif being under the uh 24:53 24 minutes, 53 seconds enterprise revenue. So there also number from almost uh some if you see one year back it was 50,000 to one lakh per day 25:01 25 minutes, 1 second now it is almost more than four lakh per day. So that way it is increasing but the only thing is the per e sign is only 25:08 25 minutes, 8 seconds 5 rupees and again on that after paying other charges the margin is only 25%. So that's where though the number of e sign 25:17 25 minutes, 17 seconds increase considerably it may not very considerably affect the increase the revenue or the profit. 25:25 25 minutes, 25 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the next quarter. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. 25:31 25 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you sir. The next question is from the line of Rishi Maheshwari from AXA Capital. Please go ahead. 25:40 25 minutes, 40 seconds Hi sir. This is a followup for uh uh understanding the growth that you have generated from the Europe. Uh um also uh 25:50 25 minutes, 50 seconds trying to correlate this with the thought of regulatory push that you may have received from uh uh from the couple 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds of uh um uh enforcements which is uh and Nora and uh uh DIS NIS and sorry Dora. 26:05 26 minutes, 5 seconds So with so these uh compliances have already uh been enforced uh by the end 26:12 26 minutes, 12 seconds before 2025. So whichever companies would have to enforce this and comply with would have already adopted and 26:19 26 minutes, 19 seconds implemented it. Uh henceforth going forward how do you expect the growth coming from regulation? You've mentioned 26:26 26 minutes, 26 seconds that in your prepared prepared remarks that you know while regulatory has uh uh regulations have you know escalated the adoption. 26:34 26 minutes, 34 seconds regulation come everybody are not able to comply with immediately lot of people take some time some postponement and 26:43 26 minutes, 43 seconds then newer and newer application are there it is not a static application so in the newer application they would like to comply and all that so this is where 26:52 26 minutes, 52 seconds the more and more inquiries are coming and the other thing is now we have integrated otherwise the kryptos was selling the third party product so in 27:00 27 minutes third party product we have integrated our MCA product and such index product into their portfolio so that they can 27:08 27 minutes, 8 seconds sell and also we are trying to sell their some of the product in the other market. So all these put together will drive the not only one factor but 27:16 27 minutes, 16 seconds another thing any regulation the adoption takes over a period of time and whenever newer and newer customer come they have to also adopt. So this is 27:24 27 minutes, 24 seconds where we feel it will be adopted. It is not a one time matter actually. 27:30 27 minutes, 30 seconds Right sir, how is the environment looking to you sir in form of growth for FI27 27:38 27 minutes, 38 seconds FI27 still we have we feel very optimistic particularly in the Middle East market 27:45 27 minutes, 45 seconds and Africa market we are very optimistic European market also optimistic American market other than service segment in product segment we are optimistic but 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds still we have not formulated the overall strategy and what will be the growth number for the next year and all that and again predominantly we are looking 28:02 28 minutes, 2 seconds at more of a productled growth than the serviceled growth. So that way that could also give better margin and all 28:10 28 minutes, 10 seconds that. So this is where we are but we are very optimistic about many countries. 28:17 28 minutes, 17 seconds Sure. Any changes with respect to the recent budget timelines of filing returns? uh does that make any difference to uh the trust services uh 28:26 28 minutes, 26 seconds revenue uh seasonality that we usually see? 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds No, I don't. They have not changed much about the corporate people in requiring the tax today where digital signature is 28:38 28 minutes, 38 seconds required is only for corporates which require the tax audit cases. So those kind of cases I don't think they have changed any data. Yeah. 28:49 28 minutes, 49 seconds Sure sir. and any cases from Z change has happened which will not anyway require registering it. 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds Got it. So we can expect uh the run rate on the trust services at about 34 35 crores uh continuing to go ahead also 29:06 29 minutes, 6 seconds this is more or less in terms of the cash flow that we also receive of similar nature of the recover. 29:13 29 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah yeah yeah at current rate is right right. Is there any other white 29:20 29 minutes, 20 seconds spaces that you that you identified as a result of which uh you know post these two acquisitions you would need to go and further undergo any more acquisitions in the near future? 29:32 29 minutes, 32 seconds No immediately we are not currently we are not evaluating any acquisition. So maybe we feel another 6 months to 9 29:40 29 minutes, 40 seconds months it may not be required and after that if necessary we will see. 29:46 29 minutes, 46 seconds Got it. And what would be the capeex for this year that you have planned? 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds This year 25 26 we planned about uh 60 cr 50 or 62 cr something. So on that 29:59 29 minutes, 59 seconds almost 75% 72% incurred balance will be incurred and this is excluding the data center because the data center has come 30:08 30 minutes, 8 seconds arising out of the middle east data center sudden compulsion of change in regulation bel this 60 cr is only by way 30:16 30 minutes, 16 seconds of all the software and other things that seems to be a little higher given 30:24 30 minutes, 24 seconds the uh given the past what would this be on in incurred on on account of 60 65 crores that is two three areas. One is 30:33 30 minutes, 33 seconds this uh PQC area another is this uh discovery 30:40 30 minutes, 40 seconds classification consent management data privacy and then so remote signing so all these five six areas 30:48 30 minutes, 48 seconds and generally even US product companies are all they are incurring 20%. For us it may be 10% only 10 12%. So that way 30:56 30 minutes, 56 seconds even last year it was 43 cr or something right and what could be the additional expense on in case of data center for 31:05 31 minutes, 5 seconds middle east sir that is around 15 cr. 31:10 31 minutes, 10 seconds So a possibility of about 75 to 80 crores of capeex that we may foresee in this year this year 25 26 31:19 31 minutes, 19 seconds right 25 26 or 20 I'm so sorry sir uh you mean to say fy 26 is what you're suggest indicating of of about 31:28 31 minutes, 28 seconds 27 we have not yet budgeted okay okay all right okay fair thank you very much yeah 31:37 31 minutes, 37 seconds thank you sir all the thank The next question is from the line of Ashray Vasa from Nepon Aif. Please go ahead. 31:47 31 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah. Hi. Hi sir. Um so just one question following up on the the previous participants question. 31:54 31 minutes, 54 seconds Obviously the budgeting is not yet done but any color in terms of the order book pipeline geography wise how is it looking? Uh I 32:03 32 minutes, 3 seconds know you all have mentioned cryptos cross-ell deals one or two are going to close over the next couple of quarters 32:09 32 minutes, 9 seconds but seems like US has slowed down or was it just that it was a seasonally weak period that's why 32:17 32 minutes, 17 seconds only on the as I said only on the services side product side still lot of conversation going on 32:22 32 minutes, 22 seconds so that's why I feel improved yeah yeah so any other colors for So order 32:33 32 minutes, 33 seconds book pipeline is also really good. So almost more than 400 cr order book is there as of now. The pipeline is there is also quite good. Yeah. 32:45 32 minutes, 45 seconds Understood. Understood. Yeah. 32:49 32 minutes, 49 seconds And uh any timeline or anything with regards to the stock issue that we had you know the the partners and 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds distributors that that used to work with us. may may go another one or two quarters. Yeah. 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds Okay. Okay. Understood. So post that there should be some normalization in the in those line items these purchase of stock and trade and 33:15 33 minutes, 15 seconds Got it. So that that would be a margin lever right that yeah yeah yeah because every quarter 3 cr is going on that that will improve. 33:25 33 minutes, 25 seconds Okay. Got it. Got it. Sir and and just last thing on the on the timeline for FI27 like what are we waiting for? U is 33:33 33 minutes, 33 seconds it just a timing thing or we are waiting for closure of some deals or just trying to understand where we are in the budgeting process? 33:43 33 minutes, 43 seconds Budgeting generally we do in March only because February so we do in March middle. 33:50 33 minutes, 50 seconds Understood. Perfect. Perfect. So thank you so much. We have the general strategy board meeting around March end and after that only we Yeah. 33:59 33 minutes, 59 seconds Perfect. Perfect. Thanks for answering. Yeah. 34:03 34 minutes, 3 seconds Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question please press star and one now. 34:11 34 minutes, 11 seconds Participants who wish to ask questions may please press star and one at this time. 34:17 34 minutes, 17 seconds The next question is from the line of Siddhart Mishra from Crees. Please go ahead. 34:25 34 minutes, 25 seconds Hello sir, thank you for taking my question. Uh sir just on the order book number you mentioned it's more than 200 cr. I'm assuming this is for product segments only. 34:34 34 minutes, 34 seconds No no no I was mentioning about the pipeline pipeline of more than 400 cr by mistake this 200. 34:42 34 minutes, 42 seconds Understood. 34:43 34 minutes, 43 seconds So pipeline is more than 400 cr. and any update on the product order book uh you know maybe just indicative growth number 34:50 34 minutes, 50 seconds if you can highlight pro no that's why for the year as I said 34:56 34 minutes, 56 seconds we we are uh we will do the 700 no for the next year we have not yet estimated 35:03 35 minutes, 3 seconds but we feel yeah yeah based on the gut feel we feel every 35:10 35 minutes, 10 seconds geography it is quite good improvement is there so next year if you see this Here organic growth if you see total 35 35:18 35 minutes, 18 seconds 36% growth 18% 19% organic growth and balance is accurate growth. So even if you do not do any acquisition next year 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds the organic growth itself could be 18 19% but we feel entire organic growth could be only out of the product. So that can lead to a better margin growth. 35:38 35 minutes, 38 seconds Got it sir. This is very helpful. Uh I was actually just checking on the order book data that we disclose at year end. 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds So last year it was 1 1907 million 191 cr any indication on how is that growing as of 9 month if you can just highlight 35:53 35 minutes, 53 seconds even a rough number is fine just a range if you can it's growing in proportion to our growth numbers 36:00 36 minutes got it got it okay understood sir that's helpful and pipeline is more than 400 cr and then second questions s are on trust services uh you know just on the 36:09 36 minutes, 9 seconds environment DSC volume pricing and competitive intensity how Has that progressed in this quarter particularly 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds and what is your expectation uh going forward? 36:20 36 minutes, 20 seconds No from pricing now we are we are priced at the highest price. So the price realization is higher volume as I said 36:28 36 minutes, 28 seconds even one year one and a half year back because of the changes in some taxation things 30 40% volume came down 36:35 36 minutes, 35 seconds so instead of the volume coming down and the price we are able to though other people are selling at 700 to 800 rupees 36:42 36 minutes, 42 seconds we are selling at 1,400 rupees still we are able to sell and achieve this numbers 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds digital signature volume may not grow much. It may grow marginally but because of the price we are able to achieve the numbers. 37:00 37 minutes So a 5 to 10% volume is a likely outcome there BSC volume or even lower. 37:08 37 minutes, 8 seconds No five 10% is possible because we will get new partners. Yeah. 37:13 37 minutes, 13 seconds Got it. Got it. Okay. And then just uh last one sir on the cash number at 3Q. I understand we don't report it uh you 37:21 37 minutes, 21 seconds know in the third quarter but is it possible for us to disclose that number 37:29 37 minutes, 29 seconds uh more than 100 cr little over 100 cr understood sir and earlier our expectation was just last one on the 37:37 37 minutes, 37 seconds cash at year end even after paying paying for cryptos and AI cyber it will be 140 150 37:45 37 minutes, 45 seconds no 120 to 140 to 140 But I feel it will be possible 37:52 37 minutes, 52 seconds but we have to wait and this data center is because like again the data center 15 we have to spend. 38:00 38 minutes Understood. Understood. Got it. Yeah. That's it Romy. Thank you. Yeah. 38:06 38 minutes, 6 seconds Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen to ask a question please press star and one now. 38:13 38 minutes, 13 seconds Participants who wish to ask questions may please press star and one now. 38:19 38 minutes, 19 seconds The next question is from the line of Sumuk from Corman Capital. Please go ahead. 38:26 38 minutes, 26 seconds Uh hello uh hi team and uh thanks for the opportunity. So I'm new to this company and I'm trying to understand uh 38:34 38 minutes, 34 seconds uh the business. So when I look at this certificate authority right uh we have DGert and AOS in the space. So how does 38:42 38 minutes, 42 seconds our product uh you know is different compared to this and why would a customer choose us over them? So any 38:50 38 minutes, 50 seconds light on that sir? There are two aspect one is the India certifying authority and foreign places. We are leader in the 38:58 38 minutes, 58 seconds Indian certifying authority space in India DG interest and all those people are not there because they are not licensed here. Number one here other 39:07 39 minutes, 7 seconds people like Capricorn vases are saying these kind of people some 15 people are there foreign certifying authority 39:14 39 minutes, 14 seconds digert is the major so in foreign two things are there digert issues the certificate SSL certificate and various 39:21 39 minutes, 21 seconds certificate and also they are doing number of products particularly CA solution and the certificate life cycle 39:29 39 minutes, 29 seconds management solution and all that. So we are trying to compete in this not in the certificate so much but in the CA 39:38 39 minutes, 38 seconds solution the certificate life cycle management solution and all that. So our product also all the features we have 39:45 39 minutes, 45 seconds studied and we have built up a product which is equally capable in some aspect better capable also. So with that and 39:53 39 minutes, 53 seconds then with the our little cheaper positioning and various things we are able to win but more than America if you 40:01 40 minutes, 1 second see various other countries like Middle East, Africa, Far East and all that there we are extremely flexible and competitive that's why we are able to win the deals. 40:12 40 minutes, 12 seconds Okay. And sir is this product uh is it a commoditized product or is there any significant differentiator between you 40:19 40 minutes, 19 seconds and your competitors or is there a scope for different it's a DSC issuance and eign is more commoditized product but if you see the 40:28 40 minutes, 28 seconds certain extra MCA and all that it is not commoditized because globally only three four providers and mainly and also even 40:36 40 minutes, 36 seconds our identity authentication management it is not a commoditized product because globally only three four providers And then lot quite a lot goes to the 40:44 40 minutes, 44 seconds government and banking by way on sale also. So and in that our our for example signature solution is extremely 40:53 40 minutes, 53 seconds specialized on the banking vertical which is not there with the other product. Similarly our CA solution extremely because we also oursel operate 41:01 41 minutes, 1 second the suring authority all the nuances of sing authority are built into that solution. So that way there is no not 41:08 41 minutes, 8 seconds too many competition in this in our solution space 22 competitor 33 competitors are there predominantly US 41:15 41 minutes, 15 seconds competitors. So that way because of the flexibility and also because we are able to offer it in a cheaper rate compared 41:23 41 minutes, 23 seconds to the US solution we are able to penetrate. 41:27 41 minutes, 27 seconds Okay sir. And what percentage of revenue comes from this uh non-commodized uh part of uh the work that you do? 41:35 41 minutes, 35 seconds Commoditized product out of uh this year if you take 700 cr maybe 130 cr maybe commodity product balance will be non-commoded product. 41:47 41 minutes, 47 seconds Okay sir. Uh thanks for that. And uh one last question. So does uh enterprise moving more towards cloud and cloud 41:54 41 minutes, 54 seconds modernization uh benefit you guys in any or how does it work out for you guys? So our solution identity authentication 42:03 42 minutes, 3 seconds management CA solution and all cloud is there but predominantly in the Asian region the large customers want either 42:11 42 minutes, 11 seconds private cloud or onremise not in this small okay so my question is multiple building and all these are 42:19 42 minutes, 19 seconds possible so if an organization chooses to move their data center to cloud so does that 42:27 42 minutes, 27 seconds mean uh they cannot use your product or no no no we sell in we sell in onromise cloud and as well as private cloud 42:35 42 minutes, 35 seconds anymore okay because if Azure has their own uh CA and uh somebody is moving to Azure cloud so will they be incentivized to 42:44 42 minutes, 44 seconds use only Azure CA or how does it work sir no in Microsoft CA as CA and all that it 42:51 42 minutes, 51 seconds will have only certain functionality as for that you have to work in our CA if they want customization we may do lot of 42:58 42 minutes, 58 seconds customization and then specialization for certain type of certificate like IoT device certificate or some other certificate and all that. So that kind 43:06 43 minutes, 6 seconds of flexibility we will offer which they may not offer in the Microsoft CSC and all that. 43:13 43 minutes, 13 seconds Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay sir. Got it. 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds Easiest to implement is the Microsoft CA. 43:22 43 minutes, 22 seconds That is the easiest way for them to do if they don't want any customization. Yeah. Okay. 43:31 43 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. 43:37 43 minutes, 37 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments. 43:46 43 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you. So, I would like to thank everyone for joining the call today. We remain focused on delivering consistent performance and innovative solutions 43:54 43 minutes, 54 seconds that enable secure digital transformation for our clients across the globe. For any additional information or queries, kindly get in 44:02 44 minutes, 2 seconds touch with our investment relation advisers, such state partners. Thank you once again. Thank you. 44:08 44 minutes, 8 seconds Thank you sir. On behalf of Arhant Capital Markets Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for 44:16 44 minutes, 16 seconds joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.