Birlasoft Limited — Q4 FY26

Birlasoft Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coGKTuV9dbw Published: 7 days ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Q4 and FI26 earnings conference call hosted by Berlas Soft 0:09 9 seconds Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation 0:18 18 seconds continues. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then 084. 0:27 27 seconds Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now have hand conference over to Mr. 0:33 33 seconds Abinand Singh, head investor relations, Brillasoft. Thank you and over to you Mr. Singh. 0:41 41 seconds Thank you and welcome folks. By now you have received or seen our results as I announced earlier today. Uh those are 0:48 48 seconds also available on our website www.blasoft.com uh in the investors section. Um joining 0:56 56 seconds me on this call this evening are our CEO and MD Mr. Anan Buha and our CFO Mr. 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds Chandra Shakha Tag Rajan or Chandru as we call him. We will begin the call today with the opening remarks from Mr. 1:09 1 minute, 9 seconds from both Angan and Chandu. But before I hand over the floor to Anger that anything that we say on this call on the 1:16 1 minute, 16 seconds company's outlook for the future could be a forwardlooking statement involving significant uncertainty and therefore that must be heard or read in 1:24 1 minute, 24 seconds conjunction with the disclaimer that appears in our investor update which you would have received and is also uploaded on our website as well as point with the 1:33 1 minute, 33 seconds stock exchanges. With this let me hand over the floor now to uh Mr. Angan Buha our CEO and MD. Over to you. 1:41 1 minute, 41 seconds Yeah, thank you Abi. So good morning and good evening to everyone wherever you are and thank you for joining us today 1:49 1 minute, 49 seconds as we share some perspectives of our fourth quarter and full year at 526 performance. Uh but before I delve into 1:58 1 minute, 58 seconds our results, I would like to point out that our performance during the quarter and year under review reflects a very 2:06 2 minutes, 6 seconds soft demand environment due to sustained macroeconomic headwinds leading to some 2:12 2 minutes, 12 seconds client specific issues and as a result erosion of revenue. In that backdrop, we 2:20 2 minutes, 20 seconds remained focused on strengthening our AIE capabilities, our domain expertise while also driving operational efficiencies and focus on order booking. 2:31 2 minutes, 31 seconds Uh at the same time, we've continued to invest in our management team. We recently onboarded Vikram Piranic as our chief operating officer. Vikram joins us 2:40 2 minutes, 40 seconds with a strong background in engineering services, delivery operations, and capability building. Having served as a 2:48 2 minutes, 48 seconds senior leader at leading engineering services organizations, he comes in place of Selva who's decided to step 2:55 2 minutes, 55 seconds down on account of personal reasons. In addition to that, in recent months, we have bought on many more leaders across 3:02 3 minutes, 2 seconds various levels in the company. Uh we've bought on a leader for our data and AI practice. We've bought on a leader for 3:11 3 minutes, 11 seconds our overall ERP practice. uh we've got a leader for our global partnerships and 3:17 3 minutes, 17 seconds alliances based in uh San Francisco and we also now have a new leader for our 3:24 3 minutes, 24 seconds life sciences vertical as you know we had inducted Koma chain as a leader for our America's business uh back in Q3 3:33 3 minutes, 33 seconds these leaders that we have added have all coming from tier one companies and we hope that they will bring a lot of 3:41 3 minutes, 41 seconds expertise uh to the growth growth orientation that we want to look going forward. Our ERP leader is a 25 3:49 3 minutes, 49 seconds yearear-old veteran from SAP and with the addition of this leader, we hope to 3:56 3 minutes, 56 seconds look at our ERP business and get that back to growth as well. At the same time, we are also making significant 4:04 4 minutes, 4 seconds efforts to further strengthen our sales team and expect to see a substantial increase in that over the next few 4:11 4 minutes, 11 seconds months. By the middle of FI27, I reckon that our sales team strength would have gone up by 30 to 40% on a year-on-year 4:20 4 minutes, 20 seconds basis. Many of these additions are in line with our intent to pivot to a growth oriented AI first organization. 4:29 4 minutes, 29 seconds With that background and context, I would like to draw your attention to our Q4 results and our fullear performance. 4:36 4 minutes, 36 seconds On the revenue side for Q4 FI26, our revenues grew 0.1% quarteron quarter and 4:43 4 minutes, 43 seconds 2.4% year-onear in rupee terms, reaching rupees 13486 million. However, our 4:50 4 minutes, 50 seconds revenues declined sequentially in dollar terms. For the full year FI26, our revenues were down 1.2% in rupee terms 5:00 5 minutes to rupees $5300 million. 100 million that reflects the challenging demand 5:07 5 minutes, 7 seconds environment that I had earlier alluded to some headwinds because of that in account specific issues that we have 5:16 5 minutes, 16 seconds faced upfront productivity benefits that we had to pass on because of AI deals that we have won and also adding to that 5:25 5 minutes, 25 seconds some bold decisions that we took of walking away from several nonprofitable revenue streams that affected our 5:33 5 minutes, 33 seconds overall revenue but contributed in our margin expansion. Consequently, our IITA 5:40 5 minutes, 40 seconds margins expanded further in Q4 on back of expansions recorded in Q2 and Q3 to 18.5%. 5:49 5 minutes, 49 seconds IITA margins for the full year FI 26 increased to 16.3% from 13% in FI25, 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds a 333 basis points expansion. The strong margin performance has led to a 46.7% 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds QQ rise in our profit after tax for Q4 to rupees 1759 million. The pack for the 6:18 6 minutes, 18 seconds full year FI26 adjusted for the one-time impact for labor court changes and 6:25 6 minutes, 25 seconds higher US federal tax is up 27.6% 6% YI which came in at rupees 6595 million. 6:36 6 minutes, 36 seconds Chandru our CFO will provide some more color both on the margins and cash flows in his remark. On the deals front, I'm 6:46 6 minutes, 46 seconds pleased to observe that after a significant spike in TCV volumes during Q3, we have recorded a further 6:55 6 minutes, 55 seconds sequential increase in total deal signings in Q4, making it a second quarter in a row where we have 7:03 7 minutes, 3 seconds registered order booking above the 200 million mark. We've signed deals worth 28 million TCV during Q4 which is 3% 7:13 7 minutes, 13 seconds higher than what we signed in Q3 of FI26. 7:17 7 minutes, 17 seconds Across many of the deals that we have won and the engagements we are working on, we are deploying our AI powered 7:24 7 minutes, 24 seconds solution including our Cojito platform which is designed to accelerate enterprise software development, 7:32 7 minutes, 32 seconds automate processes and enhance decision making through smart agents. For instance, buildoft is executing a multi- 7:40 7 minutes, 40 seconds horizon AI and data modernization program for a Fortune 500 mech 7:47 7 minutes, 47 seconds customer leveraging agentic AI to enable them automate and orchestrate complex 7:54 7 minutes, 54 seconds workflows across multiple business domains such as supply chain, commercial, sales, finance and manufacturing. 8:02 8 minutes, 2 seconds This positions our engagement as a flagship multi-dommain AIE transformation in the mech sector. 8:10 8 minutes, 10 seconds Similarly, in BFSI, a vertical, we are scaling our Genai services across the North American TNC market to help 8:19 8 minutes, 19 seconds clients process more submission and realize measurable efficiencies and business gains. 8:27 8 minutes, 27 seconds So looking ahead as I had mentioned earlier the demand environment has been quite challenging 8:34 8 minutes, 34 seconds marked by a lot of uncertainty and added to its development related to trade tariffs and geopolitics 8:44 8 minutes, 44 seconds have made the situation even more volatile. From that standpoint, FI26 has been somewhat unprecedented 8:53 8 minutes, 53 seconds where we fell short of our own expectations on the revenue front while improving margins significantly. That 9:01 9 minutes, 1 second said, we've taken measures to strengthen our growth engine. We've made significant investments in our teams 9:09 9 minutes, 9 seconds with the addition of several leaders. On the sales front, we've completed hiring of multiple additional sales talent 9:17 9 minutes, 17 seconds across both US as well as Europe geos and across verticals and service lines. 9:23 9 minutes, 23 seconds We are looking at expanding our sales teams further over the next couple of quarters. With these additions, we will 9:31 9 minutes, 31 seconds significantly enhance our capacity and capability of our sales teams. We've made significant investments in our AI 9:39 9 minutes, 39 seconds platforms and we have won some marketing deals around our AI push. We are further strengthening our AI first operating 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds model with significant changes in our delivery mechanism and should be able to see benefits from that over the next 9:56 9 minutes, 56 seconds couple of quarters. Finally, we continue to invest in our people to build an enterprise for the long term. Our focus 10:03 10 minutes, 3 seconds going forward will only be centered on around sales pipeline generation and order booking which will be around 10:11 10 minutes, 11 seconds outcome based and managed services engagements. At this point I will ask Chandru our CFO to share his perspectives on the quarter and the year under review. Chandu over to you. 10:22 10 minutes, 22 seconds Thank you Angunan. Good day everyone. It's a pleasure to talk to you again. 10:27 10 minutes, 27 seconds Let me take you through the financial highlights for the fourth quarter of FI26 and then for the full year FI26. 10:34 10 minutes, 34 seconds First the fourth quarter performance. As said our performance during the quarter has been mixed. While the top line 10:43 10 minutes, 43 seconds reflects both macro and some client specific issues we've seen our margins continue to expand. We also have had 10:52 10 minutes, 52 seconds healthy deal signings. In Q4, we had fewer working days than Q3. 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds Additionally, an operational issue at one of our customers affected our volume growth. 11:03 11 minutes, 3 seconds These factors combined with the prevailing of demand conditions that Hungen spoke about where customers have been holding back on discretionary 11:12 11 minutes, 12 seconds spends and are pushing for productivity benefits resulted in revenue for the quarter declining 2.7% 11:20 11 minutes, 20 seconds quarteron quarter currency and in dollar terms to $145.3 million. In INR terms, revenues have 11:29 11 minutes, 29 seconds been flat up.1% quarteron quarter to rupees 1,348.6 11:37 11 minutes, 37 seconds crores. Among our verticals, ENU registered a sequential growth and was 11:43 11 minutes, 43 seconds up 1.8% during the quarter. The other vertical witnessed a deep growth on account of the reasons I just mentioned. 11:53 11 minutes, 53 seconds Margin performance has been strong reflecting the series of decisive actions that we have been taking over 12:00 12 minutes the past three quarters to enhance our quality of revenue and optimize our cost structure. In addition, we have 12:08 12 minutes, 8 seconds benefited by incremental one-off in Q4 versus Q3. Also, we saw continued upside 12:15 12 minutes, 15 seconds from currency tailwinds. As a result, epic margin for Q4 increased to 18.5%. 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds Which is an expansion of 30 basis points quarteron quarter. We continue to make investments in our business including in the areas that Angan alluded to i.e. 12:33 12 minutes, 33 seconds augmentation of our sales team focus on our AI orchestration layers and enhancement in our domain and service line capabilities. 12:42 12 minutes, 42 seconds packed for the quarter increase from dollar3.4 million in Q3 to dollar9 million4. 12:51 12 minutes, 51 seconds This was driven by two factors. One, there was a strong margin expansion at the operating level and two we took the 13:00 13 minutes benefit of available tax contractions in some of our global operation. 13:05 13 minutes, 5 seconds Now to the full year performance for the full year FI26 we have reported consolidated revenue of dollar 597.5 13:15 13 minutes, 15 seconds million and rupees 5,310 crores representing a degrowth of 6% in 13:23 13 minutes, 23 seconds dollar terms and 1.2% in rupee terms respectively over the previous year. On 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds the margin front again we have delivered significant expansion on the back of previous efforts that we've put in to 13:38 13 minutes, 38 seconds drive operational efficiencies and to improve overall quality of our revenues. 13:43 13 minutes, 43 seconds The measures we've taken included rationalizing those scale accounts that were not profitable or where we did not 13:51 13 minutes, 51 seconds see potential to scale up. Our EITA for the year which stood at dollar 97.5 million is up 18.2% 2% year in year 14:00 14 minutes translating into an AITA margin of 16.3%. 14:05 14 minutes, 5 seconds This is a 333 basis point expansion over the previous year. Fact for the year 14:12 14 minutes, 12 seconds stood at $158.3 million lower than $161.1 million in the previous year due to the combined impact 14:20 14 minutes, 20 seconds of changes in labor code which affected our Q3 numbers and a provision made for incremental US fable tax in FY26. The 14:30 14 minutes, 30 seconds tax concession that came in Q4 did act as a tailwind. The elevated ETR due to increment in US tax as I called out on 14:39 14 minutes, 39 seconds our earlier calls was limited and will be limited to FI26 and we expect ETR to settle closer to our historical ETR level starting F27. 14:50 14 minutes, 50 seconds Adjusted for the incremental provision for US tax and the one-time provision made on account of changes in labor 14:57 14 minutes, 57 seconds court normalized pack for the year would have been dollar 74.2 2 million up 21.5% 15:05 15 minutes, 5 seconds year on year or rupees 659.5 crores up 27.6% 6% year on year this 15:14 15 minutes, 14 seconds would translate into an adjusted basic basic EPS of rupees 22.14 per share 15:22 15 minutes, 22 seconds balance sheet and conclusion uh let me conclude with a few observation on the balance sheet we ended the year with 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds cash and cash equivalent of rupees 2637.3 15:37 15 minutes, 37 seconds cr up 19% year on year while our DSO for period under review increased 15:43 15 minutes, 43 seconds sequentially to 62 days. The increase was caused by an unanticipated spillover 15:51 15 minutes, 51 seconds of some collection in the first couple of days of April. If we would adjust for the collection, we realized by 3rd of 15:58 15 minutes, 58 seconds April 2026, our DSO would have been 55 days. We remain committed to staying focused on sustained capital generation. 16:07 16 minutes, 7 seconds In line with our track record of re rewarding shareholders and allocating capital prudently, the board of 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds directors have proposed a final dividend over four per share subject to shareholders approval. 16:21 16 minutes, 21 seconds This combined with the interarum dividends paid out after our Q2 board meeting takes our overall dividend for 16:28 16 minutes, 28 seconds the full financial year to rupees 650 per share. We are entering the new financial year with a strong margin 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds profile and a robust balance sheet allowing us to make continued investments in AI capabilities and in 16:42 16 minutes, 42 seconds talent required work. With this I open the floor for questions. 16:50 16 minutes, 50 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. 16:55 16 minutes, 55 seconds Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press R and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question Q, you may press R. 17:05 17 minutes, 5 seconds Participants are requested to use handsets while asking the question. 17:11 17 minutes, 11 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question. 17:18 17 minutes, 18 seconds The first question is from the line of Kirish Pai from BB Capital Markets. Please go ahead. 17:25 17 minutes, 25 seconds Yeah, thanks for the opportunity and then um the year uh was down revenue down negative uh 6.5% in consequency 17:34 17 minutes, 34 seconds terms. How do you see FI27 play out? Do you think growth in FI27 will be positive? And if so, how will that 17:42 17 minutes, 42 seconds growth play out across the four quarters or the two halves? 17:49 17 minutes, 49 seconds Yeah. So, Girish uh uh thank you thank you for your question and thank you for your interest in our company. So look we 17:57 17 minutes, 57 seconds if you really analyze our 6 and a half% degrowth uh like we called out a part of it was because we ourselves walked away 18:06 18 minutes, 6 seconds from some revenue that uh was not profitable right so that is one uh second like I said that because lot of 18:15 18 minutes, 15 seconds our deals are now AI related where we have to give productivity benefits right up front that also dented our revenue 18:22 18 minutes, 22 seconds and quite frankly we were not able to in too much business to compensate for the negativity that happened which are very 18:30 18 minutes, 30 seconds account specific. uh now going forward as you know Virish we do not give our guidance but uh if you look at the 18:37 18 minutes, 37 seconds investments that we have made we've gotten almost uh a large number of leaders who have come in at the 18:46 18 minutes, 46 seconds leadership level like a new leader for our life sciences vertical a new leader for ERP which has not been doing well 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds over the last so many quarters we've got a new leader in Vicram himself so we've got a lot of new leaders even the sales 19:02 19 minutes, 2 seconds motion like I said almost we'll have an in 40% increase in our sellers in the market so we are hoping with that our 19:10 19 minutes, 10 seconds pipeline will improve our order book will improve and eventually the revenues will improve uh so we we are hoping that the bad news is behind us now uh and 19:20 19 minutes, 20 seconds FI27 you know will be better for us now we will not give a guidance in terms of how much revenue going forward and the 19:28 19 minutes, 28 seconds market is also very volatile but at least we are getting the input parameters corrected Girish 19:35 19 minutes, 35 seconds and between H1 and H2 which should be a better half so in order booking Girish as you know 19:43 19 minutes, 43 seconds that H1 is always soft and H2 is better from an order booking perspective I don't see that changing uh from a 19:51 19 minutes, 51 seconds revenue standpoint it's hard to say at this stage but you know our end will be to first get the pipeline fixed and getting getting the order booking going revenues will automatically follow. 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds You spoke about uh sales engine uh you know uh being ramped up. How how will this impact the SGNA related costs and the exit margins in FI27? 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds Yes. So I'll ask uh Chagu to comment on that part but look we've done a lot operationally to you know increase our 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds EIA as you as you have seen our EITA performance has been very very strong. 20:30 20 minutes, 30 seconds uh over the last four quarters and the team has done an excellent job which enables us to kind of invest in our business going forward. So going forward 20:39 20 minutes, 39 seconds our entire endeavor will be the entire focus will be to generate uh more pipeline more order booking. So it'll be 20:46 20 minutes, 46 seconds a completely growth oriented salesoriented organization going forward uh and we'll make lot more investment that obviously will have an impact on 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds our margins but to quantify that I'm just going to ask Judu for his comments. 20:59 20 minutes, 59 seconds Yes. uh you will recall uh Gish that in the past quarter as well we said that a steady state uh a beta margin 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds performance for us would be in the 15% range right so we if you if you look at 21:15 21 minutes, 15 seconds our numbers we're at 18 1.5% for Q4 and and my expectation is that uh as we make 21:22 21 minutes, 22 seconds some of these investments we will we will continue to uh we will continue to do that uh for for the for the required 21:31 21 minutes, 31 seconds growth that we need uh that we need and our business model alreadys in this ramp 21:38 21 minutes, 38 seconds up in sales and the investment that uh you know we committed to make you know for while while I spoke about the uh 15% 21:47 21 minutes, 47 seconds plus that we will make on a consistent basis. 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds Okay. My last question is regarding your ERP business. uh there have been commenser on compression and uh fwords and stuff 22:01 22 minutes, 1 second like that connected with C SAP migration SAP implementation. What are you seeing in the market today or what are you seeing yourself in terms of AI impact on 22:10 22 minutes, 10 seconds your ERP business? Uh is that compressing or deflating your ERP revenues in an easier fashion or do you see that happening going forward? 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds So uh Girish first of all uh you know our ERP business has been very challenged irrespective of the uh of the 22:27 22 minutes, 27 seconds parents announcement or or the AI uh related stories right we've uh consistently not performed on our ERP 22:35 22 minutes, 35 seconds business. Now the good news is I think uh finally we've been able to get a leader uh to lead our ERP business. Uh he's going to be based out of New York. 22:45 22 minutes, 45 seconds uh like we said in our earlier commentary he's worked 25 years with SAP uh and we are quite delighted to welcome 22:51 22 minutes, 51 seconds him to lead our ERP business we strongly believe our ERP business will only continue to improve from here uh system 23:00 23 minutes of records is not going away uh and uh we of course we have looked at the Palunteer announcement we are closely 23:08 23 minutes, 8 seconds monitoring it but at least in our conversations with our clients uh we are seeing a lot of interest in terms of the 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds overall ERP landscape whether it is SAP whether it is JD etc. Uh and we will continue to stay invested in this 23:23 23 minutes, 23 seconds business. We see a lot of long-term potential here. Okay. Thank you. 23:31 23 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you. A request to all the participants kindly limit yourself to one question per participant and rejoin for a follow-up question. 23:42 23 minutes, 42 seconds The next question is from the man of Sraali from Kodak Mahendra. Please go ahead. 23:48 23 minutes, 48 seconds Uh hey hi. Uh first question is uh if you can throw some more color on uh which exact vertical you face this 23:56 23 minutes, 56 seconds operational issue with the client or client specific issue impacting your overall revenue. Is it BFSI or life sciences? 24:05 24 minutes, 5 seconds uh it is life sciences and within life sciences it is a med tech sector medical devices sector 24:13 24 minutes, 13 seconds uh so it is it is more manufacturing orientated uh so that's where we face the issue uh Girish which is why it is 24:21 24 minutes, 21 seconds reflected in our life sciences business uh but our life sciences business as sir you know that you know it is it is 24:30 24 minutes, 30 seconds more manufacturing orientated uh so that's where that's where our uh biggest uh uh BDOP has been. 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds Sure, Angan. Uh and and uh is this issue completely behind? Uh that is question number one. And question number two is 24:45 24 minutes, 45 seconds the net new TCV booking uh seem to be a bit on the softer side for this quarter. 24:51 24 minutes, 51 seconds Uh so any further color that you may want to add on that? 24:57 24 minutes, 57 seconds Yeah. So, Sud, I uh intuitively feel that the bad news in in uh both manufacturing and med devices sector is 25:05 25 minutes, 5 seconds behind us. Uh we've taken a lot of hit because of the macroeconomic situation also situation related to the 25:12 25 minutes, 12 seconds operational issues of some of our clients. uh which I can't tell to do too much but suffice to say that it's very clientsp specific which is why we are 25:21 25 minutes, 21 seconds now seeing a turnaround there and we feel that uh this will not occur going forward. Uh so that is point number one. 25:30 25 minutes, 30 seconds Point number two is from our perspective the entire focus now having delivered strong margin performance will be growth 25:39 25 minutes, 39 seconds orientation and all the investments that we are doing are only to deliver uh greater growth going going forward. 25:50 25 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. So Mike Sudi sorry can I request to come back please for a followup. Sure. 25:57 25 minutes, 57 seconds No no let him please answer that. Yeah, absolutely. Please go ahead. Please go ahead with the other question. 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah. No, no, my question is uh more specific to the uh TCV net new TCV um which appears a bit soft in this 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds quarter. Is there any particular reason or deal slippage into the June quarter because of which this happened or is there any specific any other specific uh 26:19 26 minutes, 19 seconds uh issue and the last question from my end is on margins. uh so for the last two three quarters we have been consistently surprising on the positive 26:28 26 minutes, 28 seconds side on margins so 15% plus is uh looks like a bit of a uh a low ball 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds expectation at this stage uh so we understand that there is a bit of a FX benefit that we have gotten in terms of 26:42 26 minutes, 42 seconds this margin expansion but even if you exclude that uh uh uh Chandru if you can help us understand what is the most sustainable level of margin since we are 26:50 26 minutes, 50 seconds way above uh the the aspiration additional range of 15% less. So that would be from me. Thank you. 26:57 26 minutes, 57 seconds Yeah. So Sud first let me talk about the TCB performance. So I so first of all you know second quarter in a row we've 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds delivered above the 200 million mark. Uh now I agree with you that only uh at an overall year level roughly about 38% of 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds our of our order booking is really from existing new and net new. So which to my mind is a reasonably good performance 27:23 27 minutes, 23 seconds but Q4 specifically our net new is obviously very soft but I don't think there is anything more to read towards 27:31 27 minutes, 31 seconds it. It is only because uh so many of our clients are delaying decision making because of the uncertainty. It's not 27:38 27 minutes, 38 seconds that we have lost any deals. It just getting pushed to Q1. uh and you know our entire focus will be to kind of 27:45 27 minutes, 45 seconds convert all those deals uh in this current quarter. On the margins I will just ask for his comments. Thanks. Um 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds you know back on the margins one of the points that I did make uh to to Girish question was that uh we are making the 28:04 28 minutes, 4 seconds investment uh not only in sales but also in leadership across our service lines in our partnerships. we are making 28:13 28 minutes, 13 seconds investment in our AI orchestration layer and in some of our capabilities and all of this is going to be a drain on our 28:22 28 minutes, 22 seconds margins and that is why I I did mention I I continue to believe that our steady 28:29 28 minutes, 29 seconds state uh margins that we should expect is going to be upward of 15% uh and and there will be an erosion from 28:37 28 minutes, 37 seconds where we are today right obviously because of these investments and secondly uh you should also recognize the fact that when when we're looking at 28:46 28 minutes, 46 seconds additional growth there will be there will be a ramp up which will which will be natural from uh from the way we do 28:53 28 minutes, 53 seconds our business and third when we looking at some of the productivity benefits that some of our existing and new clients are expecting offer there will 29:02 29 minutes, 2 seconds be some you know front ending of some of those benefits which will have which will have an initial uh drain on our 29:10 29 minutes, 10 seconds margin Taking all of this into consideration is why I said that 15% would be a sustainable number at our field at this point in time. 29:22 29 minutes, 22 seconds Yeah, thanks and that's it from me. Thank all the rest. 29:28 29 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you. Next question is from the land of the Pesh Ma from MK Global Financial Service. Please go ahead. 29:35 29 minutes, 35 seconds Uh thanks for the opportunity. Uh just two question. First is about can you give quantify impact of uh exit from low 29:43 29 minutes, 43 seconds margin business on FI26 growth rate and second is uh what kind of deal intake required for you to get confidence on Q 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds growth resumeuming uh for us uh some ballpark number in terms of deal intake uh number. Thanks. 30:05 30 minutes, 5 seconds So Dish thank you for your question. So look, we cannot give exact numbers because that is very clientspecific deb. 30:13 30 minutes, 13 seconds But uh but we can only say that at least 200 basis points of growth roughly went 30:21 30 minutes, 21 seconds away because we walked away from uh low margin non-strategic deals and there are two aspects to it. One is uh low margin 30:31 30 minutes, 31 seconds deal. The others are also non strate strategic deals where we didn't see any further uh opportunity to grow. Uh now 30:39 30 minutes, 39 seconds exact numbers we can't obviously give but it is around that figure. Now as what was your second question I I I 30:47 30 minutes, 47 seconds before you get to the second question just just to add to what said uh we also talked about the lower working days in 30:56 30 minutes, 56 seconds the fourth quarter versus the third quarter. So the 200 basis points that just spoke about takes into consideration that one element as well. 31:05 31 minutes, 5 seconds Yeah. And what was your second question dish? 31:08 31 minutes, 8 seconds Uh what kind of deep intake uh on quarterly basis required for you to get confidence about K growth on sustainable basis returning. 31:18 31 minutes, 18 seconds Yeah. So look first quarter always is a little softer booking. Correct. 31:24 31 minutes, 24 seconds From our perspective, our endeavor will be to deliver strong order booking performance. Again, I can't give you exact figures on this. Internally, 31:33 31 minutes, 33 seconds obviously, we have a target, which is why we are hiring 30 40% more salespeople because now the focus of the 31:40 31 minutes, 40 seconds company is going to be clearly revenue growth. That's important for us because we've not performed for the last almost six, seven quarters. 31:49 31 minutes, 49 seconds uh I would not like to give the exact number but it will definitely be substantially better than the order book we delivered in FI26. 32:00 32 minutes Thank you. Thank you. 32:06 32 minutes, 6 seconds Next question is from the line of Sandep Sha from Equest Securities. Please go ahead. 32:12 32 minutes, 12 seconds Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the opportunity again. uh as you rightly said this is the sixth quarter in a row where the CCQ 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds growth is flat or a declining uh macro issues are common for the industry at our base uh it should not have impacted 32:28 32 minutes, 28 seconds so much despite that the decline of 6 and a half% is one of the highest in the revenue across many stocks so in terms 32:36 32 minutes, 36 seconds of creating a team around same delivery AI when you joined we also done a restructuring round by making investment 32:46 32 minutes, 46 seconds in new leaders, turning leaders both on sales and delivery. So what has gone wrong in a previous restructuring cycle 32:53 32 minutes, 53 seconds and why you are confident this time in terms of the again a second round of restructuring. 33:02 33 minutes, 2 seconds So Sep look we ourselves are pretty disappointed with our performance. Let me start by saying that and there's no hiding away the fact that six quarters 33:10 33 minutes, 10 seconds we've not grown right. uh so clearly the leaders that we had hired earlier has have not delivered and we had to make 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds changes at multiple levels correct so from that perspective the reason why I'm now well let me let me not even say from 33:27 33 minutes, 27 seconds a confidence perspective but the one thing that I can tell you is the following that we have invested for growth right now we are hiring 33:35 33 minutes, 35 seconds leadership we've already hired a lot of leadership we'll continue to hire more sellers and by end of Q2 two, we'll probably have 40% more sellers than we 33:44 33 minutes, 44 seconds have today with the objective that, you know, as we have more and more sellers, our pipeline will improve and eventually our order booking will improve. That's 33:52 33 minutes, 52 seconds what I'm betting on. Now, if you look at the kind of talent that we've been able to attract, right, the leaders in data 33:59 33 minutes, 59 seconds and AI, leaders on our ERP business, I at least feel and I get great confidence from the kind of talent we have got, 34:07 34 minutes, 7 seconds right? So from that standpoint I am confident that with the kind of talent that we have got the bad news being 34:14 34 minutes, 14 seconds already baked in uh having the money to invest in our business in our AI first operating model uh can only get the 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds company better because quite frankly we are at the bottom of the pit right now as you said. So I'm only hoping that the company will get a get better from here 34:31 34 minutes, 31 seconds on and which is why we continue to stay invested and we are putting in so much more investment uh as we go forward. So 34:39 34 minutes, 39 seconds SEP I don't know whether I've answered your question exactly but at least the management team is confident that with all the investments that we are making 34:46 34 minutes, 46 seconds the company should turn around sooner or rather than later. 34:51 34 minutes, 51 seconds Thanks. Thanks. Just follow up. uh you said most of the client specific issues are behind now entering FY27 35:00 35 minutes and second as you had said the team expansion on the sales will be over 40% 35:08 35 minutes, 8 seconds by the middle of this financial year so in that scenario pipeline creation and PCB conversion will may not happen in 35:17 35 minutes, 17 seconds the starting one of FI27 so is it fair to assume because of all these changes 35:23 35 minutes, 23 seconds the benefits would be visible in F528 rather than F527 and uh most of the pains on the client 35:32 35 minutes, 32 seconds specific issue are behind or you still believe those client specific issue to continue in FY27 in the near 35:42 35 minutes, 42 seconds so if the situation continues as is today then the client specific issues are behind us now we don't know what we 35:50 35 minutes, 50 seconds don't know if something uh more drastic were to happen going forward then uh you know we cannot comment but I can only 35:58 35 minutes, 58 seconds tell you two things that we've already done a lot of the hiring they are already behind us and we will continue to add sellers as we go forward in by 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds end of Q2 so you're correct some of these sellers to settle down build the pipeline and then get the autosource it's going to be crucial and then the 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds revenue will follow now we'll have to see how the sequencing happens uh but Look, our our view is that you know 36:23 36 minutes, 23 seconds quarteronquarter pipeline improvement we have already starting to see. Now we have to show that up in order booking and eventually revenue will come. 36:33 36 minutes, 33 seconds Okay, thank you. Thank you. 36:39 36 minutes, 39 seconds Next question is from the line of Ravi Menon from Access Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, thank you for the opportunity again. 36:48 36 minutes, 48 seconds your top five customers have been growing you know and finally this quarter we've actually seen that uh flatline uh so just wanted to check uh 36:55 36 minutes, 55 seconds is there anything that's uh temporarily stopping this uh when we can expect growth to resume 37:03 37 minutes, 3 seconds sorry uh Ravi you your voice broke up I couldn't quite understand the question sorry can you repeat the question again please I was saying that the top five 37:12 37 minutes, 12 seconds customers have been growing quite well you know and now we've had a quarter where uh business flatlined So just want to check if there is anything uh uh 37:21 37 minutes, 21 seconds within the top five that's been a client specific issue this quarter and then we can expect this to resume growth. 37:29 37 minutes, 29 seconds Yeah. So Rabi I don't think we have a client specific issue in our top five clients. I think the top five clients are uh uh are pretty strong. Uh it is a 37:38 37 minutes, 38 seconds seasonal issue. I don't see that to be a problem. Uh the growth will be back on the top five. I think our the next five 37:46 37 minutes, 46 seconds and the next 10 is where we need to put a lot of focus to get new real estate and new clients which is why we are 37:53 37 minutes, 53 seconds investing so much more in sales than we've ever done before. 37:58 37 minutes, 58 seconds Thank you. I saw that you know although you talked about an investment in sales this quarter the sales and support headcount is slightly down. So should we 38:05 38 minutes, 5 seconds think about that as more GNA craft and you know while you're actually adding sales and marketing personnel? That is correct. 38:13 38 minutes, 13 seconds All right, thank you so much. Thank you. 38:19 38 minutes, 19 seconds Next question is from the line of Priyanker from Walum Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. 38:30 38 minutes, 30 seconds Priyank may I request to unmute your line and proceed with your question please? 38:34 38 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. Hi, thank you. Sorry I was on mute. uh some few observations which has been quite a bit of contrasting uh when 38:42 38 minutes, 42 seconds it comes to IT sector. Uh first is uh we we've been generating 500 crores of annual cash flow which is after tax uh 38:51 38 minutes, 51 seconds after all the working capital requirement and still the dividend payout uh has been flat for the full year right uh which which ultimately 39:00 39 minutes what happens is we load up a lot of cash on our balance sheet and then we have a restructuring program which is going on 39:07 39 minutes, 7 seconds internally wherein we plan to grow organically right and uh When it comes 39:14 39 minutes, 14 seconds to the industry, the same pattern a lot of our players or or the players in this industry have returned with the cash on 39:22 39 minutes, 22 seconds balance sheet to the rightful owner uh which is equity shareholder what's uh our thoughts around uh this trend and 39:30 39 minutes, 30 seconds the contrasting observation that I have observed and the second observation that I would like to share is again within 39:37 39 minutes, 37 seconds this industry uh be it from a 20 billion uh size of uh revenue company uh to $40 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds billion. Almost everyone would share the pipeline numbers, guidances, maybe even 39:51 39 minutes, 51 seconds more granular details. While uh it's been difficult for us to judge uh what should be the trend uh that we should 40:00 40 minutes also judge uh because we also are responsible to answer our principle. So these are the two contrasting 40:08 40 minutes, 8 seconds observations and would like to know your thoughts on this. 40:14 40 minutes, 14 seconds I let me take the question on cash and dividend pri um you know I think this question had come up earlier too right 40:23 40 minutes, 23 seconds so you know clearly uh the the dividend payout that the board has recommended uh which is uh which is as you said in line 40:32 40 minutes, 32 seconds with uh what what we did uh what we did declare in FI25 40:39 40 minutes, 39 seconds is based on the promise eyes on you know on performance and if you look at if you look at our pat right it's been a very 40:47 40 minutes, 47 seconds similar pat on a basis and and therefore uh the consideration was on the dividend 40:54 40 minutes, 54 seconds in relation to our pat and therefore the dividend payout ratios right so that was one and second overall the cash in the 41:02 41 minutes, 2 seconds balance sheet uh you know you're right that it rightfully belongs to the shareholders and and and this is a call 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds that the board is taking on behalf of the shareholders and and recommending to the shareholders. Uh and and everything 41:17 41 minutes, 17 seconds that everything that you said is certainly in consideration and is in play with the board and you know and and 41:25 41 minutes, 25 seconds we are we sure as a leadership team that the board will take the right call on the cash and a go forward basis. 41:37 41 minutes, 37 seconds So Priyank on the second question uh in terms of the guidance look the situation is very very volatile currently 41:46 41 minutes, 46 seconds specifically for a smaller company the volatility is hard to predict. Uh which is the reason we do not give guidance. 41:54 41 minutes, 54 seconds Uh but like we have said in the last half an hour you know Priyank we will continue to focus on investing for 42:02 42 minutes, 2 seconds growth and investing for sales. Uh we've done a lot on the operating margin front on the last uh you know four quarters. 42:10 42 minutes, 10 seconds Uh we've done significant cost takeout and we now feel more com comfortable and have the money to invest in sales. 42:18 42 minutes, 18 seconds That's all we can do. our focus will be to generate pipeline and onboard uh and automatically revenues will follow. So we're trying to get the company back on 42:27 42 minutes, 27 seconds the growth track and that is what the management will stay focused on. 42:31 42 minutes, 31 seconds Sure. Just just to add on this uh again back uh Chandr by when should we expect 42:38 42 minutes, 38 seconds that board would start thinking about a positive generation on incremental return on capital which means that to 42:46 42 minutes, 46 seconds the cash that it generates uh doesn't just sit on the balance sheet whether it's either used for a growth or maybe 42:53 42 minutes, 53 seconds used for or maybe it's given back to the rightful owners. So I just want to know what would be the timeline that we should think of it by when board would 43:01 43 minutes, 1 second think of uh uh for the in the favor of minority shareholders as of now it doesn't look like and on second observation again sir on just a followup 43:10 43 minutes, 10 seconds uh with completely trust your strategy there's no doubt and hence we have been remain invested uh what we would like to 43:17 43 minutes, 17 seconds now know is uh after series of restructurings that we have done uh what would be that timeline that we should 43:24 43 minutes, 24 seconds think of it if not the numbers if not the guidance or if not maybe any specific metric that you would like to 43:31 43 minutes, 31 seconds call out. Maybe you would like to call out what would be the timeline that we should think of it and wherein we start witnessing the growth uh or maybe the 43:40 43 minutes, 40 seconds aspirations that you would hold uh uh for a company to to be a part of a successful uh company within the whole 43:48 43 minutes, 48 seconds of the IT system. What would be the timeline that we should also think uh going ahead that's all. Uh thank you and all the best. 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. So Priyank the second question I'll take and then I'll ask Chandu to comment on the first question. So Priyank as you will know right which you 44:05 44 minutes, 5 seconds already know that revenue is a manifestation of the pipeline and the order book that we can generate right now. We are fixing the basics. We have hired leaders. We are hiring sellers. 44:16 44 minutes, 16 seconds We're adding more sellers as we go into Q1 and Q2 with the hope that you know all the sellers are coming in and will generate more pipeline and hence 44:24 44 minutes, 24 seconds generate more order book and then the revenue will come. Now it's hard to say which quarter onwards it'll happen but at least we have rec we recognized it 44:34 44 minutes, 34 seconds and we earlier did not have the margins to invest but now our margin situation is better. So we're investing for growth. So give us some time. Our 44:43 44 minutes, 43 seconds endeavor as a management team is to focus and get the company back to quarteronquarter growth which we will all be focused on and we will deliver 44:50 44 minutes, 50 seconds that. On the cash part again I I'll defer to Chandu for his comments. Yeah on on the cash priest assured that we 45:00 45 minutes will immediately uh let let the shareholders know as soon as a call is taken. Unfortunately at this time I will 45:08 45 minutes, 8 seconds not be able to uh you know say anything on behalf of both and we will certainly uh let you know as soon as we get more 45:15 45 minutes, 15 seconds information. you know just if I can may just speak in a Q4 quarter for specific one question uh just on the 45:24 45 minutes, 24 seconds manufacturing side and I'm just referring back to the notes of Q3 uh when in a Q3 we did said that manufacturing had a previous deal ramp 45:33 45 minutes, 33 seconds up and so should not be the Q4 witnessing that growth but but instead we have seen that growth coming up in manufacturing so what should be that 45:42 45 minutes, 42 seconds consistency that we should think of it when it comes to manufacturing and again a contrasting thing in BFSI where in a Q3 had a furloss and we had did mention 45:50 45 minutes, 50 seconds that uh from the base of Q3 a Q4 will see a definitely a good growth coming up in BFSI which we are uh yet to see. So 46:00 46 minutes these two again are contrasting observations which you would like to clarify. 46:05 46 minutes, 5 seconds Yeah. So Priyank on manufacturing uh the issue is more about more macroeconomic headwind rather than anything else. So 46:14 46 minutes, 14 seconds hard to predict but we are so so many sellers that we are adding a large portion of it is going to be added in 46:22 46 minutes, 22 seconds the US in the manufacturing domain on financial services though Q3 at furls Q4 46:30 46 minutes, 30 seconds had lesser working days and as you know uh in the BFSI business it is more time and material than anything else so there 46:38 46 minutes, 38 seconds is a natural effect uh but I am not so worried about BF BFSI BFSI will be a strong growth uh you know vertical for 46:48 46 minutes, 48 seconds us going forward. Uh but we are fixing our life sciences and manufacturing businesses which has been a drag on us and that is where most of our investments are going in. 47:00 47 minutes Thank you sir. 47:04 47 minutes, 4 seconds Thank you. Next question is from the line of Gorav Nigam from Tanga Investments. Please go ahead. 47:11 47 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. Thank you sir for taking my question. Uh I just have one question on the demand environment. Uh I mean leaving aside the one of client 47:19 47 minutes, 19 seconds expressing issues and the client trimming that we are undertaking. Uh I wanted to hear your comments on the overall end client spending in the BFSI 47:28 47 minutes, 28 seconds sector specifically and are we seeing any sustainable uptake in spending in this client segment and any any color on 47:37 47 minutes, 37 seconds what is what would drive that because I think in the previous session you mentioned that uh you are not so concerned about that segment. So any color further drill down with these issues. 47:47 47 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah. So Gor uh I'm sure you you know that our BFSI business is more tuned 47:54 47 minutes, 54 seconds towards uh you know payments asset management and more uh you know non-life 48:02 48 minutes, 2 seconds which is the PNC uh business on the insurance side that is what we focus on we don't focus on traditional banking we 48:09 48 minutes, 9 seconds don't focus on uh you know a traditional investment banking business right we are very focused on these three segments Now 48:18 48 minutes, 18 seconds from a client perspective the spending is continuing to be stable but the spending is shifting from more 48:25 48 minutes, 25 seconds traditional businesses to more AI related work which is why in my opening commentary we talked about doing a lot 48:32 48 minutes, 32 seconds of marquee AI related work on a PMC insurer in the US. Uh we are doing the same uh not only on the asset management 48:41 48 minutes, 41 seconds uh side but even on the uh payments uh and the card side. So I don't see a a a 48:48 48 minutes, 48 seconds spending pattern uh change per se. The spending remains to be strong. Only the shift of the spending pool is moving 48:58 48 minutes, 58 seconds from the more traditional side of the businesses to more AI oriented work and we are participating in that uh and 49:05 49 minutes, 5 seconds winning our own our our share of the business. 49:10 49 minutes, 10 seconds Got it. Just a quick followup sir. U so why shift of pool from one bucket to another? Are we seeing any increased uh 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds pool size or the pool size remains similar across the end industries within BFS? 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds So within again not BFSI but the markets that we serve in the sub sectors that we serve we don't see an increase in 49:32 49 minutes, 32 seconds spending. We see the spending uh to be pretty much even stevens only the shift that I spoke about from traditional 49:40 49 minutes, 40 seconds services to new age services. That that's our view at this stage. 49:45 49 minutes, 45 seconds Got it. Uh and if I may ask a second question. Uh so on the productivity declination part which you mentioned uh 49:53 49 minutes, 53 seconds just wanted to get a sense that when we are seeing this uh uh net new PTV wins as well. Uh this productivity depletion 50:02 50 minutes, 2 seconds how it will characterize in terms of revenue growth any sense or any color on that would be. 50:10 50 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. So Gorov uh you know as AI is becoming more and more prevalent in our industry and most of the deals that we 50:17 50 minutes, 17 seconds are discussing with our clients is infused with a lot of AI which means we have to commit and deliver a lot of 50:25 50 minutes, 25 seconds productivity uh through our AI tools that we are uh you know we are working with our customers with. Now what happens in an AI deal is we have to 50:34 50 minutes, 34 seconds commit to the savings and underly some of the savings right up front which is why you see revenue deflation in the in 50:41 50 minutes, 41 seconds the immediate and the medium term. But more and more as we do these deals cor you will see the revenue catching up in 50:48 50 minutes, 48 seconds the future quarters and that is our hope which is why you know we are pretty confident and investing in people or 50:56 50 minutes, 56 seconds investing in sellers to drive some of those kind of conversations with our clients. 51:03 51 minutes, 3 seconds Sorry, that's helpful sir. Thank you. 51:08 51 minutes, 8 seconds Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. 51:16 51 minutes, 16 seconds Next question is from the line of Girish Pai from BB Capital Markets. Please go ahead. 51:21 51 minutes, 21 seconds Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. uh And then uh one of your peers of a similar size uh said that the competitive 51:28 51 minutes, 28 seconds intensity has gone up so much that some of the larger players are coming coming and competing for the smaller orders which it has not seen in the in the 51:36 51 minutes, 36 seconds past. So are you seeing something similar happening where because of market I mean the demand not increasing or remaining stagnant you're seeing 51:44 51 minutes, 44 seconds larger larger vendors competing again with you on smaller deals. 51:51 51 minutes, 51 seconds Yeah. So uh that is absolutely happening Gish because what happens is in an AI world it is becomes a level playing 51:58 51 minutes, 58 seconds field for all uh all partners to try and pick for all kind of work because it is more uh outcome based or uh you know 52:07 52 minutes, 7 seconds nonlinear kind of revenue streams. So we are absolutely seeing larger players also bidding for midsize deals but 52:15 52 minutes, 15 seconds equally it also is an opportunity for size companies because for the first time I guess there is a level playing field between the larger companies and 52:23 52 minutes, 23 seconds the smaller company. So if we invest and get our AI story right which we are doing and which is why we are making so 52:31 52 minutes, 31 seconds many investment at every level we are hoping that we will be able to compete and win our fair share uh as the AI uh 52:39 52 minutes, 39 seconds you know stream goes ahead when you talk about the deal these are these fixed price deals are they based 52:47 52 minutes, 47 seconds on some operational outcomes that you're talking about or some financial outcomes that that you're discussing with clients. 52:54 52 minutes, 54 seconds Yeah. So it is operational outcome not so much financial outcome and these will be more fixed price deals which could 53:03 53 minutes, 3 seconds also mean you know you deliver a outcome to a client and your fees is linked to that outcome which to me in the medium 53:12 53 minutes, 12 seconds term is a revenue deflation kind of a situation but over a longer term it'll help us uh control the work will help us 53:22 53 minutes, 22 seconds deliver an outcome and eventually hopefully help us make more money. 53:27 53 minutes, 27 seconds Is there an upside and a downside to these outcome measurements? Do do you if you outperform you get more? Is that is that the situation? 53:36 53 minutes, 36 seconds Yes. Uh yes, absolutely. That's a situation. But which also means that if you don't execute well, right, uh it could it could mean that you will not be 53:45 53 minutes, 45 seconds able to make the kind of money. But if you have a great execution engine and if you deliver well uh that can all very 53:53 53 minutes, 53 seconds well for the client as well as for ourselves. Okay. Thank you. 54:00 54 minutes Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pulkit Chavala from 361 Capital. Please go ahead. 54:07 54 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. 54:09 54 minutes, 9 seconds Uh so my first question is if I refer to your uh commentary on each of the verticals where you mentioned that life sciences and met the bad news uh seems 54:17 54 minutes, 17 seconds to be behind uh and you know BFXi really should grow well from here on and the fact that energies utilities continues to do well. What really stops you from 54:26 54 minutes, 26 seconds committing to sort of saying that you know Q1 there should be growth coming up? Is there something that you're seeing or some client specific issues 54:34 54 minutes, 34 seconds that you're still seeing in some of these verticals which really stops you from committing to that? And the second question is on the margins part. Uh if I 54:42 54 minutes, 42 seconds hear correctly, you did allude to the fact that Q4 margins also did have some one-offs. If you could just quantify them and what was the nature of those one-offs. Thank you. 54:51 54 minutes, 51 seconds Yeah. So Pit, first let me answer the first question. The only reason I am holding back on committing anything is because the market is very uncertain and 55:00 55 minutes it's volatile and every quarter I come in say something and there is a market event that happens uh that uh dis you 55:08 55 minutes, 8 seconds know disrupts the equation. So my our game plan now as a management team is to focus on the input parameters. So 55:16 55 minutes, 16 seconds investing in sales, driving order book in uh driving pipeline is the first port of call as an organization. Chandu 55:24 55 minutes, 24 seconds talked about the work that we have done in term of fixing our margins right. So now the entire focus is going to be to 55:31 55 minutes, 31 seconds do what I just said right fixing sales, driving more uh you know order book, driving more pipeline and the margins 55:39 55 minutes, 39 seconds will eventually follow. We are confident if we get these three things right, margins will come. But we have to get these three things right. Now on the 55:46 55 minutes, 46 seconds one-off as far as margins is concerned, I will ask uh Chandu for his comments. Sorry, I have mixed up question. 55:53 55 minutes, 53 seconds Uh there were oneoffs in margins in Q2 as well as Q3 and Q4. Yeah. 55:58 55 minutes, 58 seconds So will the one-offs continue or what is the sustainable? 56:02 56 minutes, 2 seconds Uh if you could just please quantify them also. 56:07 56 minutes, 7 seconds So I I will I will be able to quantify them in a moment to kit but before that one out for definition uh we do not 56:16 56 minutes, 16 seconds expect for them to to uh to come back right so so we will uh we will obviously 56:23 56 minutes, 23 seconds so we have not uh we have not baked in the one-off when we talk about the steady state margins going forward right 56:31 56 minutes, 31 seconds so there are there are some uh there are some one-off uh you know I I'll give you I'll give you 56:38 56 minutes, 38 seconds some of these items right while I while I may not you know be able to give you line by line 56:47 56 minutes, 47 seconds you know line by line data points but I will give you the total impact and uh some of the items that cost the one off 56:55 56 minutes, 55 seconds right one uh we uh we have made lower provisions and you should expect that 57:04 57 minutes, 4 seconds based on the performance based compensation which uh you know which was at a certain level until third quarter uh and then in the fourth quarter we uh 57:12 57 minutes, 12 seconds we did take uh we did take a reversal of those provisions because of you know based on the performance right so that's 57:20 57 minutes, 20 seconds one um also also there were some leave and cashman provisions that uh we make 57:27 57 minutes, 27 seconds uh on a quarter quarter basis given uh given the fourth quarter and where we landed in the fourth quarter you know we did afford 57:35 57 minutes, 35 seconds more more leaves than uh than third quarter and as a result of that the the amount of leave uh leave and cash on 57:42 57 minutes, 42 seconds provision that we had to take also consequently came down. Of course, we talked about uh of course we talked 57:50 57 minutes, 50 seconds about uh the the uh forex tailwind. In addition, we also had uh we also had a 57:59 57 minutes, 59 seconds lower employee equity compensation spend again coming from the fact that we had three exits in the past quarter as you know and that we had called out earlier. 58:10 58 minutes, 10 seconds So, so all of this told uh I would say the the uh Forex tailwind gave us a 170 basis point 58:19 58 minutes, 19 seconds benefit and the other items that I talked about gave us another 130 170 point benefit. So it's about a 340 point 58:27 58 minutes, 27 seconds benefit that we got in the fourth quarter. Uh while forex given where it is I you know I don't know what will 58:34 58 minutes, 34 seconds happen in the first quarter. So we're not counting on it. The other part of it certainly will not repeat itself in the uh first quarter and beyond. 58:45 58 minutes, 45 seconds Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much. 58:51 58 minutes, 51 seconds As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Anga, CEO NMD Burla Soft for closing comments. 59:01 59 minutes, 1 second Yeah, thank you. So first of all I would like to thank um all of you once again for joining us on this call uh today and 59:08 59 minutes, 8 seconds your insightful questions. I appreciate your interest in Bellasoft. While the demand conditions have been challenging, 59:16 59 minutes, 16 seconds we have seen an uptick in our deal wins during the second half of the year. Uh we've won several marquee aled 59:23 59 minutes, 23 seconds engagements and a noticeable expansion in our operating margin. We continue to generate strong cash flows and have a 59:31 59 minutes, 31 seconds solid balance sheet. We are investing in our people and our capabilities including significant enhancement of our 59:39 59 minutes, 39 seconds sales teams. This collectively strengthen our confidence as we start the new financial year. I'm looking 59:47 59 minutes, 47 seconds forward to speaking with you again next quarter and in the meanwhile please feel free to reach out to Abinand for any 59:55 59 minutes, 55 seconds clarifications or feedback. Thank you once again and good evening everyone. 1:00:01 1 hour, 1 second Thank you very much on behalf of Burlesoft Limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.