3B Blackbio DX Ltd — Q3 FY26

3B Blackbio DX Ltd Q3 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu8BqtbiA8s Published: 2 months ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the 3B Black BioDX Limited Q3 0:08 8 seconds FI26 earnings conference call hosted by Noama Wealth and Investment Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will 0:16 16 seconds remain in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. 0:24 24 seconds Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal the operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone telephone. 0:32 32 seconds Please note that this conference is being recorded. 0:36 36 seconds I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Ranir Singh from Noama Wealth and Investment Limited for opening remarks. Thank you and over to you Ranir. 0:45 45 seconds Yeah, thank you moderator. So on behalf of Black Bio DX Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to all participants on the 0:54 54 seconds Q3 FY26 financial results discussion call. Today on our call, uh we have Mr. 1:00 1 minute Varendra Dubet as a chairman and managing director and his team. Uh before beginning with this call, I would 1:07 1 minute, 7 seconds like to give short disclaimer. Uh this call may contain some of the forward-looking statements which are completely based upon the management's 1:16 1 minute, 16 seconds beliefs, opinions and expectations as of today. These statements are not a guarantee of company's future 1:23 1 minute, 23 seconds performance and involve unforeseen risk and uncertainties. With this I would like to hand over the call uh to Mr. 1:31 1 minute, 31 seconds Virandra Dub for his opening remark. Uh over to you sir. 1:38 1 minute, 38 seconds Uh good afternoon to all the shareholders and uh members who have 1:43 1 minute, 43 seconds joined. So this is an earning call post our 9 month number and uh has had a 1:53 1 minute, 53 seconds blood letter that uh I was down with lenitis. Still my voice is little 2:00 2 minutes uh listening but we thought to conclude this call. 2:07 2 minutes, 7 seconds So most of you who have must have seen the numbers presentations 2:13 2 minutes, 13 seconds uh we have closed 9 months uh with a number which is 99 2:21 2 minutes, 21 seconds cr 06 lakh versus 6480 which was the previous numbers were without chorus and these numbers are 2:30 2 minutes, 30 seconds with chores so there's a huge growth but if we talk about freebie alone phone 2:38 2 minutes, 38 seconds then uh we are growing at almost 11.8% 2:48 2 minutes, 48 seconds compared to last year. However, if we remove a seasonal spike which happened due to deni flu and this thing, then 2:57 2 minutes, 57 seconds there's a growth of 20% plaque uh because seasonal uh parameters are beyond our control and this is well 3:06 3 minutes, 6 seconds mentioned in the presentation and uh so on the full year basis we 3:11 3 minutes, 11 seconds expect that we will grow at 10 to 15% uh on tap line and mostly onita also. So 3:21 3 minutes, 21 seconds the IITA could be affected this year slightly because there were expenses for merger and acquisition which were 3:28 3 minutes, 28 seconds charged. So that probably the growth in I beta might not actually be translated 3:35 3 minutes, 35 seconds because it was one time and uh as you have seen that we participated in metab and we had very 3:44 3 minutes, 44 seconds good response from our part distributors customers. So we continue to maintain a very good brand lead. 3:54 3 minutes, 54 seconds Our customers are satisfied. we are progressing well in terms of R&D product development 4:02 4 minutes, 2 seconds and uh in India the molecular diagnostic it's in a nent stage 4:09 4 minutes, 9 seconds so it's a small part especially the reagent market which we actually represent so we don't we are not into 4:18 4 minutes, 18 seconds the closed system we are not into the sample to answer system we are not into point of care so all 4:25 4 minutes, 25 seconds those markets are not addressable for us. Therefore, the totally addressable 4:31 4 minutes, 31 seconds market is around 400 to 500 crime and we are almost 12 to 15%. 4:43 4 minutes, 43 seconds Which is quite high and uh uh so maintain that position itself is a challenge. Exports we are doing pretty 4:51 4 minutes, 51 seconds well. We are exporting now to 70 countries through PCR Europe is doing pretty well because they are exporting 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds to not only Europe, Middle East, Latin America and a lot of other countries. So meeting UK is giving them a very good 5:08 5 minutes, 8 seconds response and they are growing of course at 20% plus some countries the registration process 5:17 5 minutes, 17 seconds takes times. So the actual sale would get deferred but the process is started. 5:26 5 minutes, 26 seconds So our exports will grow slightly higher 15 to 20%. Overall we'll go by 10 to 15%. 5:34 5 minutes, 34 seconds And uh that's it. I think it's better that we take the question and answer because 5:42 5 minutes, 42 seconds most of the information we have given in the presentation. over to the question. 5:51 5 minutes, 51 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds Participants are requested to use your handsets while asking a question. 6:13 6 minutes, 13 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time and fairness to others, we request you to restrict to two questions per participant and rejoin the question queue. 6:22 6 minutes, 22 seconds One moment, please while the question cube assembles. 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds We take the first question from the line of Sagar Tana from Alchemy Ventures. Please go ahead. 6:38 6 minutes, 38 seconds Thank you sir for your opening remarks. 6:40 6 minutes, 40 seconds You mentioned that we are in the reagent business and not in the open or closed systems. Is that correct? 6:47 6 minutes, 47 seconds No, no, no, no. See, you see when we say open system, we mean reagent. So, you know, we we are supplying kits. So, we 6:56 6 minutes, 56 seconds consider it as a reagent or you can say that we are into the open kits market to be very precise. 7:08 7 minutes, 8 seconds Is there any new kids especially when we see some of your peers who are large and sizable maybe they may be doing just 7:15 7 minutes, 15 seconds couple of segments but they are in a close system that helps kind of keep competition away any thoughts in terms of newer products newer segments or you 7:23 7 minutes, 23 seconds know getting into close system kind of kicks. 7:27 7 minutes, 27 seconds No so we are already doing a sample to answer machine 7:33 7 minutes, 33 seconds uh which is a segment by itself. So we are also developing automated 7:40 7 minutes, 40 seconds extraction. We are trying to develop kits you know which are highly multiplex like our spirit panel AMR panel. So that 7:50 7 minutes, 50 seconds give us the continued growth that we are actually foreseeing or uh telling. So once we 7:58 7 minutes, 58 seconds have this sample to answer machine probably in the next quarter. So this will have a different segment to be added. Then we are working on a PC 8:07 8 minutes, 7 seconds system but uh it will take some time and what are the segments that we are targeting set. 8:18 8 minutes, 18 seconds Oh so we are into infection and oncology. So those are the two segments only we target and that is where we will continue to focus on even from the newer systems. 8:29 8 minutes, 29 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 8:31 8 minutes, 31 seconds Got it. And s my second question is on our UK acquisition. How is that helping us both in terms of newer products, technologies, 8:39 8 minutes, 39 seconds etc. And how do we synergize both India versus the UK? 8:45 8 minutes, 45 seconds All right. So, first let me clear, we acquired our UK distributor who was already selling our kits in UK. The 8:53 8 minutes, 53 seconds object was to have those profits which a distributor was having come into the company and to 9:03 9 minutes, 3 seconds have a subsidiary established in Europe specifically in UK. So we could transfer 9:10 9 minutes, 10 seconds the kit from here in bulk form, manufacture them there for 9:17 9 minutes, 17 seconds a faster delivery to the customer, have a UK team available for tech support at 9:23 9 minutes, 23 seconds the same time zone, have a made in UK uh kit which will have better credibility. 9:30 9 minutes, 30 seconds So this was the purpose and it is doing its purpose. If you see our presentation slide, you will notice that UK is now 9:37 9 minutes, 37 seconds contributing heavily to the export that we are doing. 9:45 9 minutes, 45 seconds Got it. Got it. Sir, what I meant was actually not UK the recent acquisition that we did couple of quarters back. Oh, that is Belgium. 9:51 9 minutes, 51 seconds Belgium. Sorry, my bad. 9:56 9 minutes, 56 seconds So maybe after one or two years if you do one or two more acquisitions then we might have to give them probably numbers. 10:06 10 minutes, 6 seconds Anyway so if you're talking about chorus chores is a standalone business separate they're into lateral flow which is a P and they do AMR products. 10:19 10 minutes, 19 seconds They have got several AMR products. They have got few AMR in the pipeline 10:27 10 minutes, 27 seconds and they have started the US FBA registration which will allow them to enter the US market. So for next two 10:36 10 minutes, 36 seconds years they have got growth strategies with new products US FBA. 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds untapped market and this is how they will continue to grow for at least 2 years and then after 2 years we'll see 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds how the product range is shifting otherwise AMR should actually become more in demand just now like in India 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds uh it's not mandatory to do a AMR check before giving an antibiotic so once it 11:05 11 minutes, 5 seconds become mandatory like in Europe or US things will change for testing And are we able to synergize uh the 11:14 11 minutes, 14 seconds India versus Belgium operations in terms of technology transfer or anything else? 11:21 11 minutes, 21 seconds No. So just now because it is a recent acquisition, we are trying to make them work on a standalone basis. We are 11:29 11 minutes, 29 seconds integrated. We were earlier also selling the products that they were doing. we were importing uh raw materials from 11:36 11 minutes, 36 seconds them, making them here, interacting on the QC part and then offering it in India. So India we are offering their 11:43 11 minutes, 43 seconds products itself. So gradually after 2 months because just now they already 11:50 11 minutes, 50 seconds have enough to do in terms of R&D in terms of regulatory in terms of market. So there is no need 11:59 11 minutes, 59 seconds to push further. We are of course trying to tell them to offer the PCR kit through their network 12:08 12 minutes, 8 seconds but it is very recent acquisition so it will take some time because to have understanding of a new technology and 12:16 12 minutes, 16 seconds their distributors accepting a new product but that is in agenda. 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds Got it. And sir what would be the cost for the US FDA uh approvals etc. 12:30 12 minutes, 30 seconds It would be somewhere between say 100,000 USD approximately 12:38 12 minutes, 38 seconds to 400 maybe and how long would it take for the approvals etc to come through and penetrate those markets start uh 12:46 12 minutes, 46 seconds distributing in those markets uh regulatory approvals take one to two years the moment you have the approval 12:55 12 minutes, 55 seconds then you start peditating the market which is a process by itself So again to have the full effect come 13:02 13 minutes, 2 seconds into the company it should be I think maybe 3 or 4 years from now. 13:10 13 minutes, 10 seconds Got it. Got it. Thank you so much and all the best. Thank you. 13:16 13 minutes, 16 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. If you wish to ask a question please press star and one. 13:24 13 minutes, 24 seconds We take the next question from the line of Ganesh from Danlakshmi Investment. Please go ahead. Hello sir. Uh am I audible? 13:33 13 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah, you are audible. 13:34 13 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. Uh sir, uh I just wanted to know for the past 1 year or more than that we have been calling out increase in competition. So what may be the reason 13:43 13 minutes, 43 seconds for competitive intensity to increase now? So my my point is one would assume that competitive intensity would have been immediately higher after co because of the excess cap capacity etc. 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds uh and players trying to get market share postco but now that it has been 3 four years since co peak for the industry as such why why are we seeing 14:04 14 minutes, 4 seconds uh competition increasing now uh I think this is a very basic question 14:10 14 minutes, 10 seconds any industry which has a high margin it will have competition if you just see mobile industry where it was and where 14:19 14 minutes, 19 seconds it is today so new players keep coming I can't ask them why are you coming it's a very simple 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds thing you know when the margins are literally low then probably competition might not come but when they see that 14:35 14 minutes, 35 seconds margins are there in molecular compared to biochemistry or other things each of these players 14:42 14 minutes, 42 seconds who who is already into the diagnostic industry either selling reagents of for biochemistry or eliza where the margins 14:50 14 minutes, 50 seconds are very low so they they find their luck or they enter into the uh molecular diagnostics. So there are 14:59 14 minutes, 59 seconds companies who were in culture they have come into molecular diagnostic postco. 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds So there were companies in Aliza they have come into molecular diagnostics because the molecular diagnostic is having a higher margin profile. Of 15:12 15 minutes, 12 seconds course the sales volume is lower compared to Eliza culture biochemistry. 15:19 15 minutes, 19 seconds So this is the reason why people are coming and I think they will keep on coming because no industry can be 15:26 15 minutes, 26 seconds barriered from others to enter. So if there is a margin you tell me a good lucrative margin business I will explore if I want to enter that or not. 15:38 15 minutes, 38 seconds That's what we keep doing. 15:40 15 minutes, 40 seconds Okay. Understood sir. And uh my second question was sir uh with respect to the change in credit periods that you are 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds now giving uh so what what would be the change per say uh right now with respect to what you were giving earlier and what 15:55 15 minutes, 55 seconds are the uh associate associated question would be like what are the metrics that you use that uh to use to ensure that 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds receivables don't go bad and correlary to that would be what are the credit terms given by the competitors as such. 16:11 16 minutes, 11 seconds So nowadays our industry easily people are taking 3 to four 16:18 16 minutes, 18 seconds months and they spill spill overs up to 5 months because lot of suppliers goes to government and the pro there the time 16:25 16 minutes, 25 seconds taking process. Labs also try to take advantage of long credit cycle and competitors offer the same finance. 16:34 16 minutes, 34 seconds They if you are offering four months they will offer four five month if if asked. So it because the customers are 16:44 16 minutes, 44 seconds mostly the same or even if new labs are coming who are established there it's not somebody settled or joined the 16:52 16 minutes, 52 seconds started a business overnight. So uh money going back is very very less probability. In any business you always 17:01 17 minutes, 1 second have some percentage which is very low which can get sticky. 17:08 17 minutes, 8 seconds But credit now is a very very important part for giving business and it will continue for some time. 17:19 17 minutes, 19 seconds Okay sir. Sure. Uh so earlier we were giving like uh say whatever the competitors are offering now we are on par with the competitor's terms. 17:29 17 minutes, 29 seconds Yes. 17:30 17 minutes, 30 seconds Okay. And uh one last question sir uh we are also trying to develop uh as you said in the opening remarks a sample to answer system. 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds So we are developing the hardware part as well or are we uh like giving it as an uh no contract manufacturing 17:46 17 minutes, 46 seconds agreement? So no, we are OEM uh doing an OEM for the machine because developing hardware for a sample to answer will take two three years. 17:54 17 minutes, 54 seconds Okay. 17:55 17 minutes, 55 seconds And and we are optimizing our case onto that machine. 18:00 18 minutes Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I'll join back in the Thank you. We take the next question 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds from the line of DHL Sha from Dalmas Capital Management. Please go ahead. 18:14 18 minutes, 14 seconds Hi, thank you for the opportunity. I just had one question on the revenue side. You mentioned 24 crores is what 18:22 18 minutes, 22 seconds the revenue is for K is for the quarter of this. How much would be the oneoff revenue 18:29 18 minutes, 29 seconds in the oneoff means the the hat contract? 18:35 18 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah, the head contract the government it was 850 850 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds 850k. So if you multiply that with 104 18:49 18 minutes, 49 seconds roughly around 8 crores also roughly around 8 crores then yeah 8.8 crores that is the one off. 19:00 19 minutes But this one of you mean as in would this be recurring every year? I mean it's is there for this? 19:08 19 minutes, 8 seconds I think we have explained regarding the SAT contract. 19:13 19 minutes, 13 seconds Actually it was a contract for 6 million uh which was received in February 24 and it was to be supplied in four years. 19:25 19 minutes, 25 seconds So logically it is 1.5 million every year. 19:29 19 minutes, 29 seconds So out of which they have already supplied 2.1 and 1.35 this year 19:36 19 minutes, 36 seconds this year was lower because it is only supplied to Congo. So where there is a 19:43 19 minutes, 43 seconds war going on. Now next year also we'll expect somewhere around 1.5 but we don't 19:50 19 minutes, 50 seconds know the quarter. Normally it is in the January sorry December ending quarter 19:57 19 minutes, 57 seconds and next year also it should be somewhere around 1 to 1.5 and again it will be in the December quarter and that way 6 million contract will get 20:05 20 minutes, 5 seconds finished. So it is not there in every quarter. That is what we mean by oneoff event. 20:15 20 minutes, 15 seconds Yeah. Not every quarter but at least for next two years the business would be coming in. 20:21 20 minutes, 21 seconds Yeah. And by 2 years end the US FDA will come in. So then if this gap uh comes 20:29 20 minutes, 29 seconds because WH has a bad date that the hat disease should be eradicated. So if they find that the degree is actually 20:38 20 minutes, 38 seconds eradicated then they will stop by. If they find that is not then they will take into 20:50 20 minutes, 50 seconds and if we look at our performance X of course is business I mean the growth is not very strong at least on the domestic 20:58 20 minutes, 58 seconds side exports we are still growing by around 26%. group this year is wrong strongly. 21:05 21 minutes, 5 seconds So you know this point this point we have already explained. 21:10 21 minutes, 10 seconds So suppose if we say that last year dy and flu was not there to the intensity that it is in this year you know lower 21:19 21 minutes, 19 seconds intensity then we are going at 20%. If we take that spike which is a fact then we are growing at almost 11.4%. 21:31 21 minutes, 31 seconds And we have also given a clear guidelines that this year overall we will grow at 10 to 15%. And exports will grow at 20%. 21:42 21 minutes, 42 seconds Now I I think this is the visibility we can see for next few months. Once the year 21:51 21 minutes, 51 seconds has ended and we are into uh new contract, new tenders, 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds new products, then we can think what would be the growth for the next year whether it 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds would be substantially higher or on a similar base. So one of the reasons that 22:12 22 minutes, 12 seconds we are now if we are commanding 12 to 15% market share in the Indian market 22:19 22 minutes, 19 seconds there's little room you know for growing and when we launch new product 22:26 22 minutes, 26 seconds it takes time for the lab to adopt it and the industry people say it is 22:32 22 minutes, 32 seconds growing at 7% 8% CAG but I think these are all economic numbers if you compare 22:40 22 minutes, 40 seconds or remove saying you are flu spike which happened last year. The industry has not grown 22:46 22 minutes, 46 seconds because even all labs were uh having that volume of pain through for almost two 2 and 1/2 months everything was fluent. 22:57 22 minutes, 57 seconds So I think for this year at overall growth rate of 10 to 15% and exports of 15 to 20%. 23:08 23 minutes, 8 seconds and then let's join our other con call to have a better view for the year after that. 23:16 23 minutes, 16 seconds Understood. 23:18 23 minutes, 18 seconds The question was more around I mean I was just looking at the quarterly number but I get your point that 4.2 two crores of sea cell spike because of chicken and 23:27 23 minutes, 27 seconds that suppresses the growth for the current year but I mean are are you seeing a trend where every quarter gone 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds by the growth rates at least in the domestic business is coming down for the industry I will not I will not go by quarter on 23:45 23 minutes, 45 seconds quarter it's a very very because we have seasonal diseases so one quarter will be 23:52 23 minutes, 52 seconds affected other won't I I would prefer to go it on a a yearly basis and a half yearly basis. 24:02 24 minutes, 2 seconds Understood. And you mentioned that competition is increasing because obviously the margins are 24:09 24 minutes, 9 seconds so this is a fact. 24:14 24 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So just wanted to check I mean are there not any areas where we can venture into any existing segments 24:22 24 minutes, 22 seconds because I mean you mentioned getting into newer technologies but again those are focused again on infections and 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds oncology. So apart from this are there any avenues to get into some other related business? 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds we are exploring but we will keep focus on the diagnostic segments only because 24:44 24 minutes, 44 seconds that's where is our experience and uh we will look for other 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds acquisitions if if they give a better product we will take them into Indian market that's always there like chorus 25:00 25 minutes so there's enough in terms of product in the invitro diagnostic molecular diagn 25:08 25 minutes, 8 seconds domestic industry to fill out to add on to join go into another industry. 25:16 25 minutes, 16 seconds If we find something you can also suggest, we can also explore it. 25:24 25 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah, I was asking more about I mean similar industry but uh something which is more connected or related to the business. 25:32 25 minutes, 32 seconds No, so we are already doing that. We are developing GDPCR products so that technology remains relevant to us. For 25:41 25 minutes, 41 seconds NDS also we are developing so that we rely we are adding almost five to seven products every year into our own listing. 25:52 25 minutes, 52 seconds So there is enough to do in our industry to actually maintain that growth rate of 10 to 15%. 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second uh going into any other technology which is not molecular that's not in our agenda immediately. 26:11 26 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. Yeah. 26:13 26 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah. And lastly the increased competition you mentioned these are already the layers which are already manufacturing 26:20 26 minutes, 20 seconds maybe culture related or something of the other which we might be already using. 26:29 26 minutes, 29 seconds How long does it take these guys to I mean replace you let's say for a customer I mean how is it easy or 26:36 26 minutes, 36 seconds difficult is it and how long would these guys to take? No. So competition actually comes eats into the margins. 26:46 26 minutes, 46 seconds Replacement is not so much and firstly to develop a high quality 26:52 26 minutes, 52 seconds product it takes almost one or two years then getting the regulatory approval another one year then going to a 27:00 27 minutes customer who is actually locked to us or is satisfied in the market. It doesn't crack immediately. But some small 27:09 27 minutes, 9 seconds distributor or some small lab they try to enter. 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds It's not over and especially these people they go into products which are high volume. So suddenly you will have flu which is high 27:22 27 minutes, 22 seconds volume. So if our price relation is X the market will try to go down like it 27:30 27 minutes, 30 seconds did in CO then we have to take a decision whether we also want to reduce the price or should we allow the competition to enter 27:41 27 minutes, 41 seconds and at what stage would this competition be? I mean are there the competitors select the approval stage where they are still trying to get 27:49 27 minutes, 49 seconds they are there they are there everywhere they are there there in developing products they there like glue deni they 27:57 27 minutes, 57 seconds are already existing for the last 3 four years postco more people have come into play 28:05 28 minutes, 5 seconds so this year if somebody new will come I don't know but whosoever was there 24 28:14 28 minutes, 14 seconds and 25 mostly he should be allowed or maybe because there there was a less of a 28:22 28 minutes, 22 seconds season I I'm hearing that some small players are actually withdrawing from the market 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds because for them selling two or three cr of product if if it vanishes so it's not 28:38 28 minutes, 38 seconds good for Given molecular is a very high margin 28:45 28 minutes, 45 seconds business, what do you think at what level should the competition saturate? I mean otherwise the competition will keep on increasing. 28:59 28 minutes, 59 seconds What do you think would be a would be a sustainable level where the market would be mature and maybe not so much competitive 29:08 29 minutes, 8 seconds from the pricing. I I really don't have an idea on this subject you know that to comment 29:16 29 minutes, 16 seconds I would focus on my business try to maintain this 10 to 15% growth try to maintain a a healthy bit of margin 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds this is a question you know which a statistician might be able to answer that when when the competition stop coming 29:32 29 minutes, 32 seconds is difficult for me to answer okay 29:39 29 minutes, 39 seconds That's it from my heart. Thank you so much for asking all the questions. 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ganesh from Dan Lakmi Investment. Please go ahead. 29:53 29 minutes, 53 seconds Yeah. Uh thank you once again for the opportunity. Uh I forgot to uh uh point 30:00 30 minutes out this in the earlier uh uh part. So thank you very much for putting out this investor presentation in a very detailed 30:07 30 minutes, 7 seconds manner. Uh so it uh resolves a lot of uh queries that we might have and gives a very clear idea of what are one time and 30:15 30 minutes, 15 seconds what are not one time etc etc. So thank you very much. Uh so I'll just uh head back to my question. So in the same 30:23 30 minutes, 23 seconds presentation uh uh you have called out participation in ADLM USA. So uh I just wanted to know what what are we 30:32 30 minutes, 32 seconds showcasing there? Are are there are these chorus products or 3B products? 30:37 30 minutes, 37 seconds So we will be showcasing all three companies chorus Europe to put forward the made in UK and 30:47 30 minutes, 47 seconds 3B which is like the Asia-Pacific Middle East Africa. So PDLM is basically a US 30:57 30 minutes, 57 seconds focused event but lot of Latin American players come 31:02 31 minutes, 2 seconds also Europeans come and now because we have money 31:11 31 minutes, 11 seconds we wish we want that we are present in most of the important events globally and chorus would definitely because by 31:19 31 minutes, 19 seconds July we should have a visibility regarding the FDA our own products are established and 31:26 31 minutes, 26 seconds maybe we get a US distributor who can sell research use products. We will have Latin American distributors who we are 31:34 31 minutes, 34 seconds already exporting and maybe we get some more. 31:39 31 minutes, 39 seconds So this is the first time we'll be doing ADLM. It's logistically very difficult for us. It's like you know 20 hours 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds flight and all those things. But let's try and then see what's the outcome. 31:53 31 minutes, 53 seconds Understood sir. So uh just as an add-on we have already we we are already present in uh USA through chorus right? 32:02 32 minutes, 2 seconds No chorus is not present in USA. I Okay. This is the first time we are applying for FDA approval for car. Yeah. Yeah. 32:10 32 minutes, 10 seconds Okay. Okay. So because my uh my uh point was uh we have mentioned or we have shown uh depicted USA as a uh point in 32:19 32 minutes, 19 seconds the map global map that we show in the presentation. That is why the question was no no so we sell some products to US 32:27 32 minutes, 27 seconds it's through an OEM partner and it's already incorporated in our exports and Europe also ships some from UK it go to 32:36 32 minutes, 36 seconds US. So we we are there in US but it's hardly there you know in terms like maybe we are there again New York, New 32:43 32 minutes, 43 seconds Jersey so only three four states okay for these kind of distribution we 32:50 32 minutes, 50 seconds don't need FD approval is it no no no that's why if if a lab wants to buy a product from us they can buy a 32:59 32 minutes, 59 seconds research use only important research use okay understood yeah got it uh sir one more question was uh with respect to TP that is PCR euro. 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds So we have seen uh in general that the growth rate of TP is generally trending lower. So my question was have we 33:16 33 minutes, 16 seconds already hit a high bar of geographies where we can penetrate through TPE uh meaning are we already a leader or 33:23 33 minutes, 23 seconds amongst the top in the geographies that TP generally targets? No no no. 33:30 33 minutes, 30 seconds So basically there are several areas where TP is trying product registration is happening 33:39 33 minutes, 39 seconds or distributors are just getting onboarded. 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds So the journey will continue but when we did from small number there was a good jump last 33:50 33 minutes, 50 seconds year. This year that jump is not happening. Next year uh as we say exports will grow higher. 33:59 33 minutes, 59 seconds So probably in uh the year end call in May end of June we will speak upon it 34:07 34 minutes, 7 seconds but through PCR journey will continue uh it's not that we are saturated that 34:14 34 minutes, 14 seconds is not the case because typically how does I mean uh how does the uh uh I mean intensity play out 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds I mean the targeting play out between uh TP and chorus now I mean I understand that chorus is mainly into lateral flow 34:30 34 minutes, 30 seconds and uh through PCRs in uh mainly PCR type of technologies as well as we have also have certain lateral flow products. 34:38 34 minutes, 38 seconds So how how is it bifurcated? I mean who targets who? How is it decided? 34:44 34 minutes, 44 seconds No. So polish is purely into lateral flow and 2PCI Europe is purely into PCR. 34:53 34 minutes, 53 seconds Okay. uh there is no uh demarcation required because that is a two different product range two different expertise those both the companies are having. 35:04 35 minutes, 4 seconds So okay understood sir. Uh one of one of the last questions that I had is uh with 35:12 35 minutes, 12 seconds respect to the strength that we always portray which is al uh true as well that is of essay sensitivity specificity and 35:19 35 minutes, 19 seconds workflow efficiency. Also the main main point being high number of SKUs that we have to you know uh like ensure customer 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds stickiness such that the customer procures from only one party etc. So these kind of uh uh metrics or these 35:36 35 minutes, 36 seconds kind of properties one would assume would give you more stickiness or more bargaining power with respect to customer. Uh does it uh uh translate on 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds the ground in such a manner or uh uh on the ground realities are different? Uh I would appreciate an answer with respect to this. 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds No no no you are absolutely correct. So our offering a wide product range 36:00 36 minutes is one of the reasons people you know want to buy product from us so that they can buy most of the enco products from us most of the infectious products from 36:08 36 minutes, 8 seconds us and then having large number of SKUs is one 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds aspect. The main aspect is the quality tech support timely supplies customer handling. So all this put together gives 36:26 36 minutes, 26 seconds this stickiness which you have rightly said. 36:30 36 minutes, 30 seconds So this uh so this does give us a bargaining power with respect to our competitors or uh yeah definitely definitely 36:38 36 minutes, 38 seconds okay okay sir and one last point sir with respect to synergies you briefly touched upon this before as well I understand that it is too early for 36:46 36 minutes, 46 seconds synergies to actually play out but I would just uh uh appreciate a bird's eye view or a very top level view on with respect to the customer acquisition or 36:55 36 minutes, 55 seconds cross-ell or ease of access in new geographies with respect to chorus acquisition whether we are able to like truly integrate our product uh PCR 37:04 37 minutes, 4 seconds products that is with uh with in the chorus ecosystem and in the supply chain. So I just wanted your 37:11 37 minutes, 11 seconds basically firstly we have mandated that chorus should grow 37:21 37 minutes, 21 seconds try to become a positive so the entire team is tuned to this vision. Now on 37:28 37 minutes, 28 seconds this part we say okay please onboard PCR kits also try to give it to your distributors who are interested but I'm 37:36 37 minutes, 36 seconds not getting pushy because I don't want them to lose the focus. 37:42 37 minutes, 42 seconds So around 5% of their sale or maybe 2% 3% of the sale in next year can be from 37:51 37 minutes, 51 seconds PCR kits. they have inquiries but so the moment the traction starts you know that a distributor buys the PCR 37:59 37 minutes, 59 seconds kit and the end user also uses it and there's a good demand repeat then the 38:07 38 minutes, 7 seconds that thing will automatically culminate because then I have to point some people also because currently whatever their task is it's already dedicated for the 38:15 38 minutes, 15 seconds lateral flow so I want to do it on a gradual basis so that the M&A you know 38:24 38 minutes, 24 seconds is not affected by any uh sort of uh change of vision. So chorus vision to 38:32 38 minutes, 32 seconds grow as a lateral flow company as an AMR company to focus on US geography to focus on 38:40 38 minutes, 40 seconds unrepresented market. What is their strength? they need to do it alongside. We have already shared all 38:48 38 minutes, 48 seconds the materials and other things and we have tried to train them into PCR but we are hoping or we are targeting also very 38:57 38 minutes, 57 seconds small numbers so that they are not into pressure to do this. 39:03 39 minutes, 3 seconds Okay sir, understood sir. Thank you very much uh for patiently answering all the questions. Thank you. Thank you. 39:11 39 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. If you wish to ask a question, please press star and one. 39:18 39 minutes, 18 seconds We take the next question from the line of Raja Narula from who is an individual investor. Please go ahead. 39:26 39 minutes, 26 seconds Hi there. You can hear me. Hi. Hi. 39:31 39 minutes, 31 seconds Hi. Uh firstly, thanks for doing these investor calls. Uh very appreciated. Um I think most of the questions on chorus were answered already. Um I had a couple 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds that won. So I think first is on the the HAT order. So that's a pretty lumpy order, right? And you said in the 39:48 39 minutes, 48 seconds investor PPT that there is a sunset on that contract. So just want to get your thoughts and learnings so far with working with the team. 39:55 39 minutes, 55 seconds Is there any uh scope of renewing that contract with the government or is there a plan then to replace that revenue once the contract ends? 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds So I already answered this you know that for next two years uh at 1.5 million it should continue 40:13 40 minutes, 13 seconds till that 6 billion is finished in parallel we have already started the US FDO work so most probably in one or 40:21 40 minutes, 21 seconds maybe less than one and a half years we should have the US FDA work and 40:29 40 minutes, 29 seconds when this contract is finished if the hat disease is eradicate ated then we would be aggressively doing the US 40:37 40 minutes, 37 seconds market which is totally not supplied as of now. So we expect that this 1 million gap is you know more 40:47 40 minutes, 47 seconds or less covered rather more can happen because US is a very big economy. So that is the agenda plus chorus is not 40:55 40 minutes, 55 seconds present in a lot of countries like the Middle East they participated this time. 40:59 40 minutes, 59 seconds So their middle east sales is very low of of the overall they mostly in Europe. 41:06 41 minutes, 6 seconds So that will also you know help in getting so even if this contract has a sunset we'll have another suns rising you know from other horizon. 41:19 41 minutes, 19 seconds Got it. Got it. I think just just to go a little deeper on the US FBA and US strategy um what do you think is like 41:27 41 minutes, 27 seconds the ideal state for the company with respect to US right I think you just shared that they're currently selling uh small amount of exports there through an 41:35 41 minutes, 35 seconds OEM and then chorus is going for its own approvals there um and then you have maybe shared in another PPP that we may 41:43 41 minutes, 43 seconds be looking at acquisition targets there uh but just looking like 3 to 5 years ahead right if 3D has to become I don't know from 150 crores to a 500 cr revenue 41:52 41 minutes, 52 seconds company. Is like the US central to that or would it be nice to have or is it a must? 42:00 42 minutes No, US is a must to have. 42:04 42 minutes, 4 seconds So this time when we go to ADLM, we already have supplies on an OEM and RU. 42:09 42 minutes, 9 seconds This is his own basis. But we'll have more clarity when we are into onetoone interaction with lot of distributors. 42:18 42 minutes, 18 seconds But US is a dominant market for molecular diagnostic. So chorus already has started the process of USAFA. 42:28 42 minutes, 28 seconds We if we have to take up US FBA we will discuss with distributors OEM partners that now this product is well adapted by 42:37 42 minutes, 37 seconds the labs should we invest in US FDA and if we do what is the volume we'll get so USFDA is important for our growth and 42:46 42 minutes, 46 seconds definitely we are doing it got it thanks super helpful uh last one 42:54 42 minutes, 54 seconds was around NFC listing uh I think you shared a few quarters ago that we would actually only become eligible by sometime second half of this year based 43:03 43 minutes, 3 seconds on NFC requirements. So just wanted to check whether this is on the company's road map and whether this is 43:11 43 minutes, 11 seconds just now we want to focus on you know developing more grids doing M&A and this 43:18 43 minutes, 18 seconds thing and once we have the audited results for the bar post that we can take up this agency because there is a 43:27 43 minutes, 27 seconds clearcut requirement for paid up capital and net worth 3 years will actually finish off in September. number this year rather they have finished off. 43:36 43 minutes, 36 seconds So uh instead of trying to make the authority because once we apply they might say okay let's get the audited 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds figure. So instead of trying to play it short of 6 months or so let's have the audited numbers and then try to approach it. 43:54 43 minutes, 54 seconds All right. Thank you very much very much. Thank you. 43:59 43 minutes, 59 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. If you wish to ask a question, please press star and one. 44:07 44 minutes, 7 seconds We take the next question from the line of Rani Singh from Luama Wealth and Investment Limited. Please go ahead. 44:14 44 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah, thank you. Uh moderator uh questions on balance sheet side. Uh what would be the current cash position post that chorus uh deal? 44:28 44 minutes, 28 seconds uh when read somewhere around 190 but exact number I won't be able to 44:37 44 minutes, 37 seconds comment but somewhere around there okay okay no fine fine and that's so um 44:45 44 minutes, 45 seconds apart from four is uh are we still scouting for uh new such opport yes yes yes definitely so what we were thinking 44:54 44 minutes, 54 seconds that at least 50 odd we keep reserve for the company and 130 140 is what we can 45:02 45 minutes, 2 seconds target to have an acquisition and uh we are very actively looking we 45:10 45 minutes, 10 seconds have appointed two consultants we ourselves dedicate almost one hour or two hours searching for company that 45:20 45 minutes, 20 seconds that is the top of the agenda to acquire a company 45:26 45 minutes, 26 seconds okay nice and uh here in four is I see you have given the revenue growth uh uh 45:33 45 minutes, 33 seconds expectation uh in AIA side because this quarter was had some one-off how this 45:40 45 minutes, 40 seconds AIA is going to uh uh we can see the transition here because uh now positive I beta you have talked about but any any 45:50 45 minutes, 50 seconds ballpark number if you have if you could give that uh what kind of oh for this year it will negative. 46:00 46 minutes We have already mentioned that you know for 12 months it was an loss of 325k. 46:06 46 minutes, 6 seconds Uh even the 3 month grace period that they have got like 15 months to you know make the uniform 46:13 46 minutes, 13 seconds uh financial effort and all of them. for next year uh we are trying that we are a bit positive 46:22 46 minutes, 22 seconds maybe 2% or 3% of the revenue because you know in Europe sales salaries are very high and 46:31 46 minutes, 31 seconds Belgium is one of the highest paid companies uh sorry countries for manpower so here the R&D team is heavily paid 46:41 46 minutes, 41 seconds 10 people are there in R&D out of the 32 So whatever products they have developed or are developing that needs to be 46:49 46 minutes, 49 seconds commercialized in a better way. So the sales increases and the cost of manpower 46:55 46 minutes, 55 seconds comes down. So it's a transition and uh next year we are targeting that it 47:02 47 minutes, 2 seconds should be positive and somewhere between 2 to 4% positive. 47:09 47 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. Nice. Nice. And here uh in terms of gross block there what kind of assets the chorus is having. So they have uh 47:17 47 minutes, 17 seconds just I wanted to understand what kind of depreciation we will be taking there on assets of Kis depreciation. 47:27 47 minutes, 27 seconds Let me just check how much he has this year or or if you could just give the kind of gross block there we have. 47:41 47 minutes, 41 seconds Okay. So last year uh the depreciation that they charge was 2 cr 35 lakhs. 47:50 47 minutes, 50 seconds Okay. And this and their gloss block is almost say 20 to 25 cr. 47:56 47 minutes, 56 seconds Okay. And for this year consolidation will be for only two quarters right? Uh from this Q3 and Q4. 48:05 48 minutes, 5 seconds Yes. And some 33 days for uh September. 48:10 48 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. because we took the acquisition on 29th August. 48:15 48 minutes, 15 seconds So whatever loss they have incurred earlier that would not be uh no no that won't be coming. 48:23 48 minutes, 23 seconds Okay. Okay. And uh your presentation showing that European IVDR certification we are trying for. So if you could maybe 48:32 48 minutes, 32 seconds explain how how uh this is going to benefit us. 48:38 48 minutes, 38 seconds So actually you know post uh 28 May and even post May 26 uh sorry 20 no. 48:49 48 minutes, 49 seconds So if you see uh the European authority firstly they gave a new regulation that 48:59 48 minutes, 59 seconds if you are not IVDR compliant then after May 26 49:07 49 minutes, 7 seconds whichever product you have not put in an application with a notified body that products will become 49:16 49 minutes, 16 seconds res And once you have the agreement and the audit and the technical certification 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds and the IBD app which we have already started then you can continue to sell as a CIB product. 49:34 49 minutes, 34 seconds So what is happening is all the molecular diagnostic or other diagnostic company because the notified bodies are very less it's an expensive proposition. 49:45 49 minutes, 45 seconds So suppose today we are having 100 products as CP. So we have taken forward only 35 to 40 products which actually 49:53 49 minutes, 53 seconds are contributing 95 or more product or percentage of our revenue. 50:00 50 minutes The moment we have this IBDR during next 6 to 9 months then the IBD because 50:08 50 minutes, 8 seconds distributors lab now the question is is your kit IBDR because they want to continue using SC 50:16 50 minutes, 16 seconds IBD product. So if a company has not started an IVDR process then the lab 50:24 50 minutes, 24 seconds will have an answer that no our chip is not going to be IBDR. So the lab if it 50:32 50 minutes, 32 seconds is a normal product it can be offered from other companies they will try to opt for an IBD that is the main benefit 50:40 50 minutes, 40 seconds that will help because it is a expensive proposition each company is only taking forward those product which are giving 50:49 50 minutes, 49 seconds revenue to them not every product even has selected three products or four product to take 50:57 50 minutes, 57 seconds forward for IBD not all of them. There are products you know from where Chinese competition is too much doesn't make sense to do IBDR for those products. 51:08 51 minutes, 8 seconds So this is the entire thing. 51:12 51 minutes, 12 seconds So then then we'll be able to sell it in um uh every part of Europe. Uh so this is the certification uh will open doors for entire Europe, right? 51:24 51 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah. Yeah. It will open a rather whatever we are already supplying to the labs that we can continue to do. There won't be a disruption in sight. 51:35 51 minutes, 35 seconds Okay. Okay. And um uh last one that next generation sequencing vertical that you 51:42 51 minutes, 42 seconds know started year back. How is the traction? Now we see that traction is good but in terms of uh revenue or profit uh how how things are there? 51:53 51 minutes, 53 seconds No, NGS traction is very low because NGS now every lab 52:01 52 minutes, 1 second is moving into higher machines and trying to 52:07 52 minutes, 7 seconds have larger panels you know made OEM because a very stiff competition is there in the Indian market. Our purpose 52:16 52 minutes, 16 seconds of doing NGS was to remain technology relevant. So if for example PGR has to 52:23 52 minutes, 23 seconds be sort of you know finished in next four or five years and NGS would be only technology so that time so we are 52:31 52 minutes, 31 seconds already there as a product but the competition in India is I won't call it competition the labs to 52:40 52 minutes, 40 seconds whom we will sell they already trying to their develop their own NGS panel because another company a lot of their 52:48 52 minutes, 48 seconds competitor is offering the test at a very low price. So they cannot afford. 52:52 52 minutes, 52 seconds We don't have any margin left you know if they buy from us for exports we have the product ready it's a it's a 53:01 53 minutes, 1 second research use only because IBDR is not possible for NGS we just uh if the product was already there IBT before May 53:09 53 minutes, 9 seconds 22 it was not the case for so exports now we are getting some 53:16 53 minutes, 16 seconds traction but because most of the labs they are who are at NPS they have already adopted a product. So for them 53:24 53 minutes, 24 seconds to switch over to a new product, it's a long time. So NGS is not our key 53:30 53 minutes, 30 seconds strategy because as a frank listening, the margins are very low in NGS. So that 53:38 53 minutes, 38 seconds doesn't interest it was purely done to be technologically relevant. So if 53:45 53 minutes, 45 seconds there's a threat to PCR then we can offer any we can immediately offer. But the margins are low. So the thought of 53:53 53 minutes, 53 seconds our interest and NGS numbers which come actually US is the major player in NGS. 54:01 54 minutes, 1 second That's how you know it becomes so big but uh it's not actually the numbers are 54:08 54 minutes, 8 seconds big but companies are losing money. If you try to Google take into the companies which are into NG you will be 54:16 54 minutes, 16 seconds surprised to note that lot of them or most of them are losing money. 54:21 54 minutes, 21 seconds So it's good that we have it as a technology relevant if you if suddenly PCR has to be disappeared for for 54:29 54 minutes, 29 seconds infectious which is our 60 65% of our sales there is no product for oncology 54:37 54 minutes, 37 seconds we have quantitative kit we have small kits you know where you can find out the status of a patient within 24 hours or 54:46 54 minutes, 46 seconds 12 hours uh NGS doesn't become sensible for that. So our market 54:54 54 minutes, 54 seconds we are protected or you would say that there is no spread of NGS. NGS is mainly 55:00 55 minutes into very high genetic that is a whole genome sequence. So an individual is a 55:08 55 minutes, 8 seconds whole genome is sequence and 4,500 genes are done and then a database is created 55:16 55 minutes, 16 seconds and either you would go for uh not a whole genome maybe a smaller 55:23 55 minutes, 23 seconds genome which could be like genes which are more accessible. 55:28 55 minutes, 28 seconds So NGS on a short basis we are not an NGS company but we are prepared with the 55:34 55 minutes, 34 seconds NGS if sometime down the line for next four to five years I don't see any threat from NGS. 55:43 55 minutes, 43 seconds Okay. Okay, that's nice. And uh because we are in biochemical enzyme and this 55:50 55 minutes, 50 seconds kind of business, I see lot of IVD side u lot of innovations are happening and new products are coming in. So are we 55:58 55 minutes, 58 seconds thinking anything to do there in IVD side or like u quick testing type of uh you know uh strips or different kind of 56:06 56 minutes, 6 seconds things people are coming with. So are we thinking anything to do there or you will remain in the 56:16 56 minutes, 16 seconds actually we always keep on looking into technologies and uh strip testing 56:25 56 minutes, 25 seconds is the main person there. We are also trying to do certain developments on our products which are in PCR but if they 56:32 56 minutes, 32 seconds can be converted into a strip. So we always looking into it but it's not something which is immediately foresee. 56:44 56 minutes, 44 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thanks a lot sir. 56:47 56 minutes, 47 seconds And despite your you know th congestion I can understand you you have given us chance to participate here and uh all the best from my side. 56:58 56 minutes, 58 seconds Thank you. Thank you all. Um of course my throat is back but then this was important so I did it. Thanks a lot for everybody's time and patience. 57:12 57 minutes, 12 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. There are no further questions from the participant. 57:17 57 minutes, 17 seconds I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. 57:24 57 minutes, 24 seconds Thank you all for joining and apologies for the inconvenience part. So we try to give most of the 57:31 57 minutes, 31 seconds information and uh I thank you for the patience and the questions. 57:39 57 minutes, 39 seconds That's it. Thank you. 57:42 57 minutes, 42 seconds Thank you on behalf of Nwama Wealth and Investment Limited. That concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining 57:49 57 minutes, 49 seconds us. You may now disconnect your