Sg Finserve Ltd — Q4 FY26

Sg Finserve Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNO7BSRwTUI Published: 3 weeks ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the SG Sincer Q4 FI26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, 0:09 9 seconds all participant lines will be in the listen no mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. 0:18 18 seconds Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that 0:26 26 seconds this call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to the management. Thank you. 0:34 34 seconds Hi Jind everyone. My name is Vin Gupta. 0:37 37 seconds I'm the CEO of your NBFC SG fins limited. With me I have my senior colleague Mr. Deepak the chairperson 0:43 43 seconds Mr. Anub Gupta group chief strategy officer Mr. Sanjay Rajput the CFO and Mr. Lit Gupta chief business officer. 0:53 53 seconds I'll just give a brief about the financial performance uh which has been very very excellent uh for the SD fins for the year ended March 36 26 we have 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds done operating income of 334 crores 96% growth year-on-year basis loan book 1:09 1 minute, 9 seconds 3,936 crores forcing a growth of 75% on year-on-year basis profit after tax 128 cron 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds growth of 58%. So this is the uh this signifies the overall performance of the company. Similar performance has been 1:25 1 minute, 25 seconds witnessed in the Q4 also. In Q4 our profitability has gone up to 43 cr uh 42 crore on the pack which is uh grown from 1:34 1 minute, 34 seconds 32 cr uh from previous quarter 30% growth on quarter quarter basis. 1:41 1 minute, 41 seconds Our AM currently 3,936 cr is an all-time high which is backed by uh our core 1:49 1 minute, 49 seconds business which is supply chain new business which we have added and commercialized factoring business in the month of March. 1:55 1 minute, 55 seconds A gross dispersement for the full year has been crossed the benchmark of 25,000 crores which shows the entire digital capability and invoice financing 2:03 2 minutes, 3 seconds capability which we as NDFC has. So this was the uh the opening remark over to NK. 2:17 2 minutes, 17 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press 2:25 2 minutes, 25 seconds star and one on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are 2:34 2 minutes, 34 seconds requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question Q assembles. 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second The first question comes from the line of Habi Chan with HA Capital. Please go ahead. 3:09 3 minutes, 9 seconds Hi, good afternoon. Am I audible? Yes, please go ahead. You're audible. 3:16 3 minutes, 16 seconds Hi, Mr. Um so my question is basically to understand the competitive advantage that your business model has because 3:23 3 minutes, 23 seconds obviously you have been maintaining a nil NPA and I think even in your investor like you have guided for that 3:29 3 minutes, 29 seconds you know you plan to maintain your NPA at nil. So I just want to understand or you can can you help the investor 3:37 3 minutes, 37 seconds understand the business model a bit better. I mean how are you able to forecast that you know going forward also your NPA will be nil. That is my first part of the question. 3:48 3 minutes, 48 seconds So our core business is supply chain business. The inherent strength of supply chain business is because it has a trapite relationship between the 3:56 3 minutes, 56 seconds anchor, borrower and the financer across all the NBSC and banks who are operating in the supply chain space. The matrix of 4:05 4 minutes, 5 seconds the capital structure and the credit cost remains the same. For us the advantage is this. Unlike other bank of NBSC, our core business is supply chain. 4:15 4 minutes, 15 seconds More than 3/4 of our business is supply chain in terms. So that that adds to our advantage. 4:25 4 minutes, 25 seconds Yeah. Okay. So by far I understand but I wanted to get more flavor around how even within the supply chain group right 4:32 4 minutes, 32 seconds yours is such a pristine quality quality business. I mean what advantages do you have? what is the business model in 4:39 4 minutes, 39 seconds terms of how do you ensure that you know the customers or your borrowers uh have very little room to you know to default. 4:48 4 minutes, 48 seconds So just want to understand is it the buffers around liquidity. It is is it the buffers around you know uh the the 4:55 4 minutes, 55 seconds loan to value I understand that uh in most of it you are also doing you know the the the invoicing uh finance where 5:04 5 minutes, 4 seconds basically you are dealing with grade A uh you know end customers and they pay directly to you. So that I understand 5:11 5 minutes, 11 seconds but can you give me more flavors because even within the supply chain cohort uh maintaining a nil NPA or no NPA is is 5:18 5 minutes, 18 seconds unheard of. So can you just help them understand that a couple of things one we are doing only 5:27 5 minutes, 27 seconds purchase financing which is backed by invoice so the end use is monitored number one it is very very shortterm in nature it is not a lumpy lengthy loans 5:35 5 minutes, 35 seconds our average term cycle is 45 days if you look at our disbbursement done in Q4 versus our book we would have done a 5:42 5 minutes, 42 seconds disbbursement around 7,700 cr or against our book of 3,900 cr which signifies that we return the entire book in 45 5:51 5 minutes, 51 seconds days on an average basis. So by giving a short-term in nature with an end use monitored and invoice back and the 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds beneficiary is also allowed. So when the dealer is procuring for an anchor, we don't give hand over the money in the pocket of the dealer. We directly pay to 6:05 6 minutes, 5 seconds the anchors which ensures the continuity of that supply has to the continuity of supply will remain only if they remain 6:13 6 minutes, 13 seconds disciplined in my retainment because they will procure further only when they pay me for the existing invoices. So it 6:21 6 minutes, 21 seconds creates a churning and the stickiness between the anchor dealer and the uh financer. So that is the overall supply 6:28 6 minutes, 28 seconds chain construct. On top of that, we have a very very you know robust early warning where we monitor the churning 6:36 6 minutes, 36 seconds cycle of all our dealers on a regular basis and wherever we see there's any challenge we don't wait for the account to go into a bad shape. We chip in in 6:45 6 minutes, 45 seconds terms of our own relationship team we do loop in our anchors also to make sure that the dealers remain disciplined in terms of the recruitment capacity. 6:57 6 minutes, 57 seconds Uh can you give some more flavor around this this early warning signal uh system that you have created? Uh can you give 7:04 7 minutes, 4 seconds us more flavor around how data is you know how you're using data because in today's day and age I I'm sure that you know data is helping you a lot and 7:12 7 minutes, 12 seconds without data to get any competitive advantage it's not sustainable. So can you just help us under understand this early warning signal system that you have created? 7:21 7 minutes, 21 seconds Understood. So to put it simply, it is not very very complicated. You know, it a very very simple structure we follow. 7:28 7 minutes, 28 seconds We have funded a particular procurement. 7:31 7 minutes, 31 seconds The procurement has to translate into a sale. The sale translate into receivable. The receivable translate into cash. The cash has to come back to me as a financer to repay my existing 7:40 7 minutes, 40 seconds invoices. So that the space get created for the new procurement. Wherever we see this space is getting elongated. the 7:49 7 minutes, 49 seconds dealer or the borrower is not able to churn it in a better manner then that create a no early morning for us and then we try and understand whether the 7:58 7 minutes, 58 seconds receivables are stuck or inventory is stuck or they don't need any further procurement any longer so that kind of a ongoing process is there with us which 8:06 8 minutes, 6 seconds we follow across all our dealers right my tiny question on this is that uh since you're dealing with you know 8:14 8 minutes, 14 seconds these grade anchors which helps you and give you the confidence to go ahead and and his birth and obviously because of 8:20 8 minutes, 20 seconds which the NPS cycle is 30. Now as you're growing your book and eventually with the speed at which you'll grow your book uh do you think that there is enough 8:29 8 minutes, 29 seconds space available to keep ensuring that you only deal with grade anchors uh you know where the delquency will be very 8:36 8 minutes, 36 seconds low uh or do you think that there is a saturation point after which you'll have to you know move to probably a grade a 8:43 8 minutes, 43 seconds minus kind of an anchor grade B kind of an anchor so just give us a flavor of that so the scalability uh in this space is 8:52 8 minutes, 52 seconds huge out of top 500 corporates if we talk about not even 100 are active in a supply chain space. So there's a huge 8:59 8 minutes, 59 seconds space for the new anchors to follow the trend of the successful anchors to come and start doing supply chain. Number one. Number two, the anchors who are 9:08 9 minutes, 8 seconds already doing supply chain their entire sales is not yet covered. That's like you know back of the hand calculation. 9:14 9 minutes, 14 seconds My understanding 25 to 30% of their sales is only covered. Still there's a lot of room left for those anchors to 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds also deep dive and get the dealersh on boarded under the organized supply chain programs. So the space is 9:29 9 minutes, 29 seconds humongous. So there's no saturation I see in my side at least for next 10 15 years. 9:36 9 minutes, 36 seconds Right. And finally the guidance that you've given in the deck is it for a prolongated medium term like 3 to four year or is this for 27? 9:44 9 minutes, 44 seconds It is ongoing basis. I think this is the kind of a guidance we will maintain on an ongoing basis. Uh if I were to break it down probably for FI27 9:54 9 minutes, 54 seconds AUM growth maybe not 25 to 30% it will be upward of 30%. But in a medium to long-term this will be the average of 25 to 30%. 10:04 10 minutes, 4 seconds Our aspiration on the is around 35 40%. 10:11 10 minutes, 11 seconds Sure sir. Thank you and all the best. 10:13 10 minutes, 13 seconds Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Kosal Jorya with Koshal Jodian Associates. Please go ahead. 10:23 10 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. Uh superb results. Uh just wanted to understand uh having a clarity on two three things on the financial aspect. In 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds the financials results I could see uh there has been a rise in the employee benefit expense from 2 cr to 6 cr 3.5 cr 10:42 10 minutes, 42 seconds plus if if I add that 2.54 on account of esop then cumulative it approximately 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds reaches 6 cr so uh of course in the LinkedIn page we have seen many employees have been added to there have 10:55 10 minutes, 55 seconds been a three-fold jump in the employee benefit cost can you explain uh any uh senior management or something have been employed or something like that. 11:05 11 minutes, 5 seconds No. Uh I think uh you you uh the 2.5 code which you referred was not related to this financial year. If you read this 2.5 code is mentioned as a footnote 11:14 11 minutes, 14 seconds related to year ended March 31st 20 okay 25 okay okay so it's only 1.5 crores addition in the employee cost in this current quarter. Right. 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds Right. 11:26 11 minutes, 26 seconds Right. Uh uh just one more question I have regarding the AUM. uh since around uh 350 kores approximately 350 kores we 11:34 11 minutes, 34 seconds have received through warrants so uh basically that will be employed only in 11:41 11 minutes, 41 seconds the current business right not in the AI related business just wanted to understand that 11:48 11 minutes, 48 seconds so there's no segregation crucial on the equity it's equity pool we currently sitting with a 1,481 code equity putting 11:55 11 minutes, 55 seconds 81 codeal warrants got converted in the month of April so it's equity currently we are leveraged at 1.9x on the 12:03 12 minutes, 3 seconds standalone NBST if as and when we enter into the new businesses this is same pool of equity will get used 12:09 12 minutes, 9 seconds but for financial year 26 27 we are not thinking to go venture in into new business right or are we thinking of 12:17 12 minutes, 17 seconds doing that that there's a lot of ground work is going on because it it's subject to a lot of regulatory approvals it has the 12:26 12 minutes, 26 seconds master of business plan we need to have a right set of So it is subject to many things. So difficult for me to you know really visualize whether it will happen 12:34 12 minutes, 34 seconds in FA 27 or 28 because it is subject to many things. 12:38 12 minutes, 38 seconds Okay. And now uh the the last question I have it is uh not pertaining to only for financial year 26 27 in general I wanted 12:47 12 minutes, 47 seconds to ask in future if you have a target to achieve future uh uh basically to reach 12:53 12 minutes, 53 seconds uh a higher AUM. So uh at that time what we are uh basically will will we be 13:01 13 minutes, 1 second funding through additional capital like preferential allotment or are we thinking to borrow money from the banks or NBFCs to fund the additional AUM. 13:12 13 minutes, 12 seconds So we currently have enough banks available with us which are not utilized space available in the existing already 13:20 13 minutes, 20 seconds available limit itself to utilize further. 13:22 13 minutes, 22 seconds So can I know the limit sir? What is the current limit of the banks you have? 13:27 13 minutes, 27 seconds It is more than approximate sir I'm not telling you to give me the exact figure approximate sir by bank limit 13:34 13 minutes, 34 seconds more than 3,000 cr 3,000 okay right it is more than it will be somewhere between 3,000 to 3,500 cr 13:43 13 minutes, 43 seconds number one number two our leverage currently is 1.9 if you were to compare us with any other NBFC I think the leverage of 3 to 4x is acceptable 13:51 13 minutes, 51 seconds leverage for the NBFC business but we understand we are in the initial stage of our growth uh so that's why we are going little cautious but there is room 14:00 14 minutes left there's enough headroom left to leverage ourselves uh without being dependent on any fresh equity risk so 14:07 14 minutes, 7 seconds basically as per my understanding with the bank limits you have approximately 3 and a half and the capital we have of 14:15 14 minutes, 15 seconds 1500 so we are well uh basically we can reach a aum of 6,000 to 7,000 easily 14:23 14 minutes, 23 seconds without asking for additional capital right sir if I'm 10,000 cr is the 14:31 14 minutes, 31 seconds three yes no 10,000 cr vium we can easily reach in 3 to four years without being dependent on any fresh equity because we will accumulate profit and 14:40 14 minutes, 40 seconds there is a enough bank lines available and more bank lines will get added so 10,000 cr aum with 3x leverage we are not dependent on any fresh equity 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds okay and sir one last question sorry I'm asking again in the the previous participants question you mentioned that 14:55 14 minutes, 55 seconds in the current business 3/4 of the business is coming through uh basically uh financing of supply chain. So what is 15:03 15 minutes, 3 seconds that 1/4 additional component where it is coming from the additional income basically. So that is a cross which we 15:10 15 minutes, 10 seconds do in our ecosystem. So when we meet the anchors and the dealers so we know within that ecosystem there's a requirement which is beyond supply 15:18 15 minutes, 18 seconds chain. I can give only few example without divulging too much detail. But if a dealer says okay hey you are financing my invoice invoices for the 15:25 15 minutes, 25 seconds procurement but I need some working capital also. Maybe I need some term funding for my business expansion also. 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds Maybe I need some sort of a lap also. So those kind of requirement comes when we meet them. Although our cost of acquisition for that kind of a cross 15:39 15 minutes, 39 seconds business is virtually zero but we end up you know doing that business also which helps us also and helps our borrowers also. 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds Okay great sir sir I think sir my personal opinion your uh 35% is very low your APL Apollo group company target for 15:56 15 minutes, 56 seconds 100% growth this sir I hope so all the best sir thank you thank you 16:03 16 minutes, 3 seconds thank you next question comes from the line of pin gala with stage one please go ahead 16:10 16 minutes, 10 seconds yeah hi m good afternoon uh will I uh say 8% ROA uh you think is a peak that 16:19 16 minutes, 19 seconds we have achieved or there is room to grow more. Second question is that what is the comfortable debt to equity that 16:27 16 minutes, 27 seconds you uh or the organization has in mind and by when do you think that leverage can be achieved and the third question 16:35 16 minutes, 35 seconds is little bit uh can you explain a little bit on your platform? I believe we have the RBI approval as well. And how do you intend to compete when three 16:43 16 minutes, 43 seconds to four large platforms are already operational? So where does our right to win uh stay in that? 16:51 16 minutes, 51 seconds Sure. I'll answer one by one. First question first know on the ROA I think 4.8% is a very healthy ROA. Anything 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds more than this you know it can go up to 5% but at the same time we may look at 4.5%. So I think ROA will range between 17:06 17 minutes, 6 seconds 4.5% to 5%. It also is a uh calculation around leverage also because if our 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds leverage goes up the ROA tend to go down the ROE tend to go up. So I think 4.5% to 5% will be our ROA. That is the kind 17:22 17 minutes, 22 seconds of a number which we have in our mind number one. Number two on the equity side currently we are at around 2x 17:28 17 minutes, 28 seconds leverage as a management we think we can go up to 3x that is the number which we have in sight but that will happen over 17:35 17 minutes, 35 seconds a period of phase manner maybe 2 years to three years that we will not try to leverage ourself on immediate basis because we're very very conservative 17:42 17 minutes, 42 seconds lender uh so we grow very very cautiously and the third on the factoring and trade so the license of factoring has two angles one is the 17:51 17 minutes, 51 seconds bilateral factoring which already commercialized and we executed the transaction If you look at our results closely, 175 cr is the factoring book 17:58 17 minutes, 58 seconds which is outstanding on 31st March. So that has already begun. On the trades, we have already signed up uh the uh agreement. We have already onboarded the two trade platform RXI and M1 exchange. 18:10 18 minutes, 10 seconds Uh we are evaluating the leads and sooner or later we will get live uh in terms of booking the trades uh factoring business also there. 18:20 18 minutes, 20 seconds When do you when do you expect to go live? I think this is Q1 only. 18:27 18 minutes, 27 seconds Okay. And sorry unless before that you said two platforms. I mean you are going to go on other platforms or have our own platform. 18:35 18 minutes, 35 seconds No no no we don't plan to have any platform on the trades. We only participate on the existing trades regulated entities uh licensed by RBI. 18:43 18 minutes, 43 seconds Uh we don't plan to do because that's a different ballgame altogether. That's not the business which we are in. We are a lender. We are not. 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds Understood. Okay. Thank you. Good luck. 18:57 18 minutes, 57 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mahel Pani with 40 cents. Please go ahead. 19:05 19 minutes, 5 seconds Hello sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Since we are doing so well now, what other NBFC areas do we have plan to expand into? 19:18 19 minutes, 18 seconds And actually our focus will remain supply chain but supply chain has multiple colors. We are already doing tier one dealer financing. We have 19:25 19 minutes, 25 seconds started doing tier 2 dealer financing also. We have started banking with the deep tier uh tier 2 dealers of tier one 19:32 19 minutes, 32 seconds dealers. So that has been a successful uh testing run we have done in last couple of months. So that is the new 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds business or the new territory we will enter into. Naturally we will continue to onboard new anchors enter into new industries and continue to expand ourself uh on the uh dealer financing. 19:51 19 minutes, 51 seconds Third factoring as I answered in my previous question you know the factoring is just beginning uh uh that will continue to grow considering it's just 19:59 19 minutes, 59 seconds the beginning I think that will add another cushion for us to grow the factoring beyond the traditional supply chain then the crossell business in 20:08 20 minutes, 8 seconds terms of whether we doing lab or we're doing dumb funding or a standalone working capital financing that's something which we keep on doing more of 20:15 20 minutes, 15 seconds an opportunistic kind of a transitions Okay. So my another question is around 20:23 20 minutes, 23 seconds the geographical spreads. So are we uh across I mean are we pan India or we are focused in certain geographies because I'm new to the company. 20:34 20 minutes, 34 seconds So we currently catering to 30 locations pan India but that 30 location is more of a hub you know from within one particular location 20:42 20 minutes, 42 seconds it covers around 100 km kind of a radius. So currently except the northeast seven sisters I think we are 20:49 20 minutes, 49 seconds fairly present across the country we have existing customer base on those all locations right and sir uh some insight around the 20:59 20 minutes, 59 seconds dealers uh so you know are we specifically focusing uh for for dealers into certain industry or are we I mean 21:07 21 minutes, 7 seconds if you can throw some light around this so there's no specific industry criteria which we have in our Right. However, 21:16 21 minutes, 16 seconds supply chain as a business works only in few typical industries. So we are definitely very big on auto steel 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds construction uh wide goods ITIT peripherals. These are the industry which suits the uh the supply chain 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds structure. However, there are few industries like FMCG which remain aloof to you know supply chain kind of 21:40 21 minutes, 40 seconds business that we'll continue to evaluate as when when the opportunity comes. 21:45 21 minutes, 45 seconds Okay. And sir, what is the uh concentration in terms of our clients? 21:51 21 minutes, 51 seconds So if we uh how many clients do we have around for that amum which you mentioned in our opening remarks? 22:01 22 minutes, 1 second Our average ticket size for a borrow would be around 5CR uh in terms of our outstanding if you have to calculate. So the concentration is not much. 22:10 22 minutes, 10 seconds Right. Right. 22:12 22 minutes, 12 seconds Thank you so much sir and wish you the best. Thank you so much. 22:17 22 minutes, 17 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nikl Chanak with Sangri family office. Please go ahead. 22:26 22 minutes, 26 seconds Yeah. Hi. Longer term do you also get into the retail side of uh you know like 22:34 22 minutes, 34 seconds mass retail? I read somewhere you're trying to get into LAP as well. So I know you said there's lot of scope to 22:41 22 minutes, 41 seconds grow in supply chain financing but say in the next 2 three years what other segments are you going to explore would 22:48 22 minutes, 48 seconds you get into for example housing finance and you know lab you mentioned so what are the segments 22:55 22 minutes, 55 seconds so as a DNA of our NBFC uh no we are only financing the business plans okay so business houses so we are not 23:03 23 minutes, 3 seconds planning to enter into any retail consumer financing as of today also we have nils and we uh don't have any visibility to enter into that business 23:11 23 minutes, 11 seconds because that is not a business we understand as of now. When I said microlap that microlap is also a form of giving a term financing to a business 23:19 23 minutes, 19 seconds person who is seeking money to [clears throat] expand the business 23:27 23 minutes, 27 seconds and understood and then you know uh who do you see as competition which are the segment which are the players are 23:34 23 minutes, 34 seconds competing with this segment honestly you know as a again as a 23:41 23 minutes, 41 seconds philosophy we we don't believe in competition We think I think we believe in co survival. So there's enough space which 23:48 23 minutes, 48 seconds is available for everybody. So there are there's a one set of banks then the large pedigree banks then there are large NBSC then there there's a middle 23:57 23 minutes, 57 seconds layer NBC like us. So I think there's a space for everybody and we play in our own space. 24:05 24 minutes, 5 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. 24:11 24 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you. The next question comes on the line of Amed Jan an individual investor. Please go ahead. 24:19 24 minutes, 19 seconds Uh hi sir thanks for the opportunity. My question is more around PHB exchange. 24:24 24 minutes, 24 seconds Right now on PSB exchange we have SBI Bank of Boda and uh other uh PSU banks. 24:31 24 minutes, 31 seconds Uh my question is in 3 years time uh what does supply chain finance market uh will look like and where does exactly 24:41 24 minutes, 41 seconds NBFC like SDG center that structure this is more of a forward-looking question but I just wanted to have a understanding uh about this from you. 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds So my personal opinion on this is like this you know the more banks are joining and doing supply chain business it only 25:00 25 minutes gives a confidence of the borrower and the industry on a supply chain business today the large part of uh financing is 25:08 25 minutes, 8 seconds done through a more of CC OD WCL term financing supply chain financing continues to be niche my personal belief 25:15 25 minutes, 15 seconds again if more banks and more players are coming into the market the market itself will grow if the market will grow there will be for everybody to grow. 25:26 25 minutes, 26 seconds Yeah, that's it. I had only one question. Thank you. 25:33 25 minutes, 33 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Janvi Patil, an individual investor. Please go ahead. 25:41 25 minutes, 41 seconds Uh hello sir. Uh congratulations on your uh best results so far. Uh I just wanted 25:48 25 minutes, 48 seconds to know the uh guidance for the next two years. 25:55 25 minutes, 55 seconds Well, thank you so much for your uh well wishes. Uh ma'am and know first of all you know for next two years we just want to do what we have done this year. Just 26:03 26 minutes, 3 seconds repeat know the excellent results we have posted in Q4 and FI26. We just want to follow the same path in FI27. FI27 26:13 26 minutes, 13 seconds the way we look at our current capital structure. the current that we have raised the fresh equity also I think the numbers looks more promising because we 26:20 26 minutes, 20 seconds have more capital uh to support our growth engine maybe uh are uh the numbers as we are seeing on the paper 26:27 26 minutes, 27 seconds today other numbers will be far more better in FI27 okay thank you sir all the best 26:34 26 minutes, 34 seconds thank you so much thank you the next question comes from the line of Ra Bugaria with Lindsay 26:43 26 minutes, 43 seconds securities please go ahead Uh hello sir, am I audible? 26:50 26 minutes, 50 seconds Yes sir, very much audible. Please go ahead. 26:52 26 minutes, 52 seconds Sir, what will be our uh share of loans given to group company uh entities? 27:01 27 minutes, 1 second So all these are related party transactions are reported to the board and you know approved by audit committee. Our related party exposure 27:09 27 minutes, 9 seconds would be what? Lesser than 100 CR currently. Sanj less than 100 less than 100 cr. 27:16 27 minutes, 16 seconds And what would be the loans to uh you know the channel financing for the group company? What would be the share amongst the overall 27:24 27 minutes, 24 seconds I think should be around uh 30% uh 29 to 30. Sir, is it is my understanding 27:34 27 minutes, 34 seconds right that you know the recent increase in steel prices have really helped your AUM. 27:41 27 minutes, 41 seconds Steel prices have not gone up in the month of March. This is my understanding. If you ask me, we have received massive election in the last 27:49 27 minutes, 49 seconds week of March. Our AUM would have been even closed higher. uh but if you look at our average AUM you know our average 27:57 27 minutes, 57 seconds AUM for the full financial year has grown even higher than our uh end of period even we closed our average AUM 28:04 28 minutes, 4 seconds for FI26 as 2640 cr against our average AUM for FI25 at 1,282 cr 28:12 28 minutes, 12 seconds we are almost we have doubled our average AUM so that cannot be a one-off instance because of price also we've 28:21 28 minutes, 21 seconds also done a lot of volume but just trying to understand if it helped a lot. 28:27 28 minutes, 27 seconds No no it it did it did not I was just trying to give you more elaborate answer that our numbers have gone up profitability has gone up so it is not 28:35 28 minutes, 35 seconds one of steel price rise uh as a reason okay thank you sir 28:44 28 minutes, 44 seconds the next question comes from the line of Manish an individual investor please go ahead good afternoon sir so first of all 28:53 28 minutes, 53 seconds congratulations on the outstanding performances quarter. So I have one question. Do you think uh we've been conservative in our guidance uh at least 29:02 29 minutes, 2 seconds uh during the course which happened during the last two quarters and especially considering the super performance that the company has shown 29:09 29 minutes, 9 seconds this quarter? Have we in any way kind of under committed but believe that we will overachieve our guidance uh the upcoming year? 29:20 29 minutes, 20 seconds Yes, you are right on your observation. 29:22 29 minutes, 22 seconds uh we were conservative last quarter because there were reasons there was a change in management there was new management coming new people coming so we wanted to go a little slow we wanted 29:30 29 minutes, 30 seconds to consolidate ourself and see in which direction we want to grow but under committing overd delivering is something 29:37 29 minutes, 37 seconds which suits uh best to our philosophy today also when we are looking at you know giving a guidance of 25 30% that 29:44 29 minutes, 44 seconds again uh is a conservative guidance yeah so it was the reverse under the 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds previous management. So I thought this quarter was an outstanding performance especially in light of the guidance uh 29:59 29 minutes, 59 seconds or maybe the gloomy picture which was being portrayed during the last two quarters. So considering that I think it has been a phenomenal performance. So 30:08 30 minutes, 8 seconds thank you and uh wishing that the company does uh much more better in the days to come. Thank you. 30:14 30 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you so much Manish. But two clarification number one it was not the previous management who gave this guidance. I myself has given that lower guidance because we thought we will be 30:22 30 minutes, 22 seconds conservative in our guidance. Number one. Number two, we have not portrayed any gloomy picture. It was more of interpretation. We were very very clear that okay, this is a conservative number 30:30 30 minutes, 30 seconds we are giving and because we are the new management, new change in hand, we wanted to keep a conservative guidance. 30:35 30 minutes, 35 seconds It was very very uh clearly articulated that we are doing conservative guidance. 30:40 30 minutes, 40 seconds Yeah, look, I uh use the word bloommy because of the fact that uh the guidance which was given right it was not for one particular quarter but it was across uh 30:48 30 minutes, 48 seconds various quarters. So there were things which were being told that we will achieve some x amount of AUM profitability and so on and later on 30:57 30 minutes, 57 seconds there were clarifications being given in terms of exit run rate and so on. So I understand uh I mean I only hope that 31:05 31 minutes, 5 seconds the conservative is a lot more conservative uh in terms of kind of giving any guidance going forward but netn net yeah I don't want to kind of 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds take away uh the good performance uh that has been shown this quarter. So thank you. 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds Sure. Thank you. 31:24 31 minutes, 24 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pravin Kumar with Pune Esto Broking Limited. Please go ahead. 31:32 31 minutes, 32 seconds Hello. Am I audible? Yes. Yes. Please go ahead. 31:38 31 minutes, 38 seconds Uh sir, uh my first question is uh sir uh like what are we doing um in terms of 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds best like how are we managing NPS as they are zero. So what I mean what we are doing different that 31:55 31 minutes, 55 seconds we have one of the best NPS in in the industry. So I wanted to understand the process or everything. 32:06 32 minutes, 6 seconds So we are not complicating anything. We are keeping very simple. If you given a loan to somebody, we need our money back along with interest on time. And that is the message which we give it to our 32:14 32 minutes, 14 seconds people and our customers uh time and again whenever there any situation arises uh the dealer or any borrower 32:22 32 minutes, 22 seconds who's in genuine difficulty, their receivables are stuck, their inventory is not moving. So we work with them along with the anchor. So there's only 32:30 32 minutes, 30 seconds not one person the lender who need to knock the door of the borrower. There are two people now. And it does not only impact me uh in terms of the bad loan 32:38 32 minutes, 38 seconds book. It does impact the anchor also because in that particular territory if a dealer is not paying me the dealer will not get the fresh goods. If the 32:45 32 minutes, 45 seconds dealer does not get fresh goods, it impacts dealer. It also impact the anchor because anchor is is virtually not able to generate sales from that 32:54 32 minutes, 54 seconds particular territory where the dealer was operating. So it is in the best interest of all the three entities uh the lender, the dealer and the anchor to come together and find a solution. 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds Okay. Okay. So that is that as simple as this. 33:11 33 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. Okay sir. uh also I wanted uh uh I mean like differentiation like what 33:19 33 minutes, 19 seconds percentage is in export or something like in domestic is there anything any number like because uh recently there 33:27 33 minutes, 27 seconds has been this war impact and so I wanted to understand like basically things are improving now but if anything goes wrong 33:34 33 minutes, 34 seconds so no no I understand your concern so two two things number one our entire AUM 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds business is 100% domestic. We are not doing any import export business. We are not financing that. Right? Our entire 33:48 33 minutes, 48 seconds book is only domestic. However, we are very very conservative, vigilant. We have done our own prognosis of assessment of the situation uh in terms 33:57 33 minutes, 57 seconds of borrower whether this has any indirect impact on the borrowers. Uh but as of as we speak today on this call, uh there's nothing which is there in uh in 34:06 34 minutes, 6 seconds my side which is impacting them severely that I need to be worried. 34:11 34 minutes, 11 seconds Okay. Okay, thank you sir. Thank you sir and all the best. Thank you so much. 34:18 34 minutes, 18 seconds The next question comes from the line of Arun Kajara with Omara Capital. Please go ahead. 34:26 34 minutes, 26 seconds Uh hi sir and thank you for taking my question. Am I audible? 34:30 34 minutes, 30 seconds Yes [clears throat] sir. Audible please go ahead sir. Uh until I think second quarter we used to draw uh we used to draw the arway tree for us. Uh but we stopped 34:39 34 minutes, 39 seconds doing that since the third quarter. If you could just draw an ROA tree for so for for especially this quarter 34:48 34 minutes, 48 seconds we can do so but uh out of 4.8% if our NI percentage roughly would be what 7.7% uh cost to income is around 15%. 35:00 35 minutes And our return asset is 4.8%. So I think this broadly is the uh the composition of ROA. 35:09 35 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. So since I think uh I think the last year our our RO had had kind of shrunk by around 100 bits or a little 35:18 35 minutes, 18 seconds more. So if you could shed some light on that as to why that happened. 35:23 35 minutes, 23 seconds Our leverage was virtually zero for 6 months in last financial year which is which is why the RO appears very high. 35:33 35 minutes, 33 seconds But on the absolute terms if you look at the profitability uh the uh net interest income the PBT everything has gone up. 35:40 35 minutes, 40 seconds Our interest cost is low because for around 4 to 5 months our borrowing was zero and we were only doing business 35:46 35 minutes, 46 seconds purely versus equity. So although the ROA may appear at 5.8% or 5.9 which you're alluding to but return equity 35:54 35 minutes, 54 seconds would have massively gone down because the leverage was virtually zero. 35:59 35 minutes, 59 seconds Okay. And what would be our leverage level now? And what would be our comfortable uh range? 36:04 36 minutes, 4 seconds So currently our leverage is 1.9 broadly let's say 2x and our comfortable range is 2x but our aspiration is to go up to 3x over the uh next 2 to 3 years. 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. And and our our forward targets remain in uh in life uh as as we had stated. 36:25 36 minutes, 25 seconds Yes. uh 25 to 30% CAGR is remain our uh guidance for the A1 growth. 36:33 36 minutes, 33 seconds Okay. And uh and just alluding back to uh to question that one of the earlier participants had asked uh what would be 36:41 36 minutes, 41 seconds I mean what would be a size for uh for one of the like bigger players in the space and who would be your like prime competitors? 36:49 36 minutes, 49 seconds uh what would be the AM size for the biggest players in the space for the bigger players considering that you said that this is kind of an untapped space 36:57 36 minutes, 57 seconds we are still uh we are still getting into it um it's still a developing story right so so 37:03 37 minutes, 3 seconds broadly five six large NBSC's and banks each one should be dealing with 10,000 37:10 37 minutes, 10 seconds cr to 15,000 cr kind of a EUM in a supply chain space so this is my uh market insight 37:18 37 minutes, 18 seconds but the overall market uh if I were to add PSU banks everybody I think the market size would be some somewhere 37:24 37 minutes, 24 seconds upward of one lakh cr okay okay thank you and all the best 37:34 37 minutes, 34 seconds thank you the next question comes from the line of Rajat with yes securities please go ahead 37:42 37 minutes, 42 seconds thank you for the opportunity sir what will be our average for the quarter Sorry, I didn't get that. 37:50 37 minutes, 50 seconds So, what will be our JM for the quarter? 326 3265. 38:02 38 minutes, 2 seconds And sir, we are seeing a huge jump in fee income. So, what is the reason for that? 38:10 38 minutes, 10 seconds It's just a focus uh on the fee income like nothing more. So but 6 cr income s 38:18 38 minutes, 18 seconds the rate was around 1 1.5 crores and we are seeing 6 crores in this quarter. 38:24 38 minutes, 24 seconds No so I will honestly uh uh accept the fact that we were not going little aggressive uh the kind of fee income 38:32 38 minutes, 32 seconds which the kind of potential uh is there I think we were not going as aggressive as we could. 38:40 38 minutes, 40 seconds So 6 and 1/2 cr fee in Q4 it's not an exception. I think this will become a norm. You will see in few quarters more. 38:46 38 minutes, 46 seconds No sir, I'm asking the reason for the delta which we are getting here sir. In Q3 it was 1.5 crores. In Q4 last year it 38:53 38 minutes, 53 seconds was 1.89 crores. This quarter it is 6.23 crores. So what is the reason for such a huge big increase? 39:02 39 minutes, 2 seconds Well, let's think that is like in Q3 we have not able to generate that kind of fee which we could have or we should 39:10 39 minutes, 10 seconds have you know only thing is that okay we as a business strategy we have focused okay if there's a potential to generate fee why to leave that feed on the table 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds ask the customer to pay fee customer will negotiate and in the negotiation we'll still end up earning something 39:26 39 minutes, 26 seconds so what kind of fees are we getting on our dispersements it ranges it ranges from maybe 10 pesa, 39:34 39 minutes, 34 seconds 20 pesa, 25 pesa, 50 pesa also few cases maybe 1% also it it really depends upon the uh line. 39:43 39 minutes, 43 seconds Okay sir. Thank you sir. Thank you. 39:49 39 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Abi Chan with AG Capital. 39:54 39 minutes, 54 seconds Please go ahead. [clears throat] Hello Yes. Yes, you're audible. Please. 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds Sorry. Uh so just one more question. Um since you know you have taken over obviously uh you have done a good job of being conservative and that is much 40:13 40 minutes, 13 seconds appreciated especially when you're in the financial space right I mean I don't understand management which are optimistic in the financial uh in the 40:21 40 minutes, 21 seconds NBSC space especially. So kudos to you on being conservative and uh if you over a fine I just want to understand uh all 40:28 40 minutes, 28 seconds part of your uh you know guidances are conservative except for the provisioning and the you know Fred cost. So uh any 40:35 40 minutes, 35 seconds reason I mean would it help you to have some kind of buffer built in there in your for guidance? I mean obviously if you are targeting male NPA and you're 40:44 40 minutes, 44 seconds focused on that you might end up achieving it but wouldn't it wouldn't hurt right if you build some buffer there because you yourself are 40:52 40 minutes, 52 seconds conservative you're running the show you know better right no but I mean we have accumulated a 41:01 41 minutes, 1 second provision of 18 cr in our balance sheet if you look at our capital structure uh because we follow the uh Indian accounting standard we cannot deviate 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds from that from the expected credit loss theory if there's nil NPA we can only provide expected credit loss as per the Indian accounting standard over 41:16 41 minutes, 16 seconds and above that whatever provision we need to make beyond the ECL as per accounting standard we need to go by the RB guidelines so there are well 41:24 41 minutes, 24 seconds definfined uh two regulations we need to follow so I cannot even have to create a buffer I'm not allowed to create that buffer because regulators will not 41:32 41 minutes, 32 seconds permit me no I understand on the provisioning side uh I understand I just wanted to understand in terms of the guidance of 41:39 41 minutes, 39 seconds the NPA. I mean because you're conservative on all the other parameters. Uh wouldn't it help if there was some sort of buffer built in in 41:47 41 minutes, 47 seconds terms of the guidance on NPA also going forward? I understand. I mean the ambition is and you have been able to achieve the MBA but uh just thinking 41:54 41 minutes, 54 seconds from highly no I think it is only about the messaging you know we are 78 people as this presentation this guidance is 42:03 42 minutes, 3 seconds read by our people also. So our philosophy and theory is very simple. We don't want to lose even one rupee in the market. So I don't want to give any 42:10 42 minutes, 10 seconds message that I'm okay tolerable to lose some money. By design by uh target we 42:17 42 minutes, 17 seconds are going to lose money. So the guidance will remain negative. 42:23 42 minutes, 23 seconds No appreciate that and I think you are embarking on something which will not happen in the Indian financial industry space. So if you're able to achieve it 42:30 42 minutes, 30 seconds in the middle and the long term also that would be fantastic. Thank you. 42:33 42 minutes, 33 seconds No no I'm not I'm not living in any food paradigm. I know lending business is a risk business. We may lose money, we will lose money, but I'm not targeting to lose money. 42:44 42 minutes, 44 seconds I appreciate that. Thank you, sir. Thank you. 42:49 42 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mhul Punjani with 40 cents. Please go ahead. 43:03 43 minutes, 3 seconds Mahul, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. 43:07 43 minutes, 7 seconds Hello. Hello. Sorry, I was on mute. Uh sir, thank you so much for the followup. 43:12 43 minutes, 12 seconds Uh sir, I had a question about uh our business model while we explaining in two earlier responses uh of another 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds participant. You are saying that you know uh there's a anchor and uh the anchor doesn't want to lose uh uh uh you 43:29 43 minutes, 29 seconds know the market uh the sales kind of. So uh so are you talking about uh can you just please elaborate because I'm new to 43:36 43 minutes, 36 seconds the uh company. Uh so uh with an example like what anchor is like the person uh 43:44 43 minutes, 44 seconds the company is products which the dealer is selling is that what you are alluding to I'll give you an example I think that will be better for to understand you 43:52 43 minutes, 52 seconds know let's say Tata Motors is the OEM manufacturing the vehicles and they are selling those vehicles through the dealers present across the country 44:00 44 minutes right consumers like you and I will go to the dealer and buy that vehicle now there's a particular location where the dealer is present 44:08 44 minutes, 8 seconds For the OEM like Tata, it is extremely important that vehicle uh dealer remain open well liquidity is available, well 44:18 44 minutes, 18 seconds funding is available and so that they continue to sell their vehicles to the dealer. If tomorrow if the dealer were 44:25 44 minutes, 25 seconds to go shut or by virtue of my legal agreement the Tata is not allowed to sell the vehicles to the dealer then 44:33 44 minutes, 33 seconds what will happen? the TATA will lose the business uh catchment in that particular territory. The dealer will also lose the business. We will also lose the 44:41 44 minutes, 41 seconds business. So it become more of a trapite relationship between the OEM and the dealer and the financer. So what we do we give a financing to the dealer saying 44:49 44 minutes, 49 seconds hey take this money pay to Tata to buy vehicles. Whenever you sell this vehicle in the market get the money and pay it back to me. Once you pay it back to me 44:57 44 minutes, 57 seconds the more limit will make available again use that money and keep on doing that in cycles again and again again and again. 45:05 45 minutes, 5 seconds If they don't pay me then we have a clear agreement that the OEM will stop supplying any further vehicle to them 45:12 45 minutes, 12 seconds till my overds are clear. So this is the strength this is the business model. I hope I was able to explain it. 45:20 45 minutes, 20 seconds Yeah that was very well explained sir. 45:22 45 minutes, 22 seconds One followup question on this one itself. So uh so whenever we are uh in the agreement with our dealers or our 45:30 45 minutes, 30 seconds clients so uh always the anchor is included in that contract or how how does it work out? 45:38 45 minutes, 38 seconds Yes. Yes. every all the documents are executed uh it's well covered and for the borrower the borrower end use is 45:45 45 minutes, 45 seconds very very clearly defined that you can use money in my example uh you can use this money only to pay to the OEM for 45:53 45 minutes, 53 seconds buying the goods so the goods are defined from whom they can purchase is defined and how the process flow will happen 46:01 46 minutes, 1 second because I not don't give the money to give to them I give money directly to the right so sir are is saying that each of our 46:09 46 minutes, 9 seconds borrower uh every borrower to whom we are giving lending money we are having this kind of agreement where the OEM is involved OEM 46:18 46 minutes, 18 seconds or the anchor is involved not every borrower wherever we doing supply chain typical deal financing 46:25 46 minutes, 25 seconds there are different structures the factoring well the factoring may have a different structure vendor finance may have a different structure 46:32 46 minutes, 32 seconds praise in financing may have a different structure similarly you know so every uh product uh has a different nuances. I was only explaining you the core 46:41 46 minutes, 41 seconds strength of a supply chain typical supply chain business which is our strength and which we are doing. Right. Right. Right. 46:47 46 minutes, 47 seconds Okay sir. Thank you so much. Uh this was amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. 46:54 46 minutes, 54 seconds The next question comes from the line of Manish and individual investor. Please go ahead. 47:00 47 minutes Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity again sir. I'm looking at your PPT page number 17 and uh the profit uh sorry the tax uh 47:09 47 minutes, 9 seconds the profit uh guidance that you have for the uh subsequent year 30 to 35%age. Now is that on the entire year's 47:17 47 minutes, 17 seconds profitability or is that on the exit run rate? U no you're talking about the return on asset and return on equity. 47:25 47 minutes, 25 seconds No no no I'm talking about the pat guidance uh fully on your PPT. Yeah, it says 30 to 35%age CAGR. That's the PD guidance. 47:37 47 minutes, 37 seconds This is the growth. This is the growth on the P. This is not a grow. This is not a PAT percentage of the year. This is the growth on the PR of previous year P. 47:48 47 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. All right. So, it is not for the subsequent year because maybe I'm misreading it. Uh the uh PPT says 47:56 47 minutes, 56 seconds guidance. So that is why I thought uh this is the pad for the subsequent years. The guidance for the subsequent year that is not the case. 48:05 48 minutes, 5 seconds No no this is the guidance for subsequent years but you are saying that okay it is whether on the closing book I'm saying it is not the pad guidance is 48:13 48 minutes, 13 seconds not of the closing book. The pad guidance is on the part of the previous financial year. So when we saying I can give an example we're saying yeah yeah I understood I understood I 48:21 48 minutes, 21 seconds understood. So I just wanted to kind of clarify is it on the part of the previous financial year or is it on the exit run rate. Uh reason being uh the Q4 48:29 48 minutes, 29 seconds numbers were much better. So if this guidance is on the Q4 numbers then obviously the PAT number would be much 48:36 48 minutes, 36 seconds higher next year. So that was yeah yeah understood. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. 48:45 48 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Akillesh Kumar an individual investor. Please go ahead. 48:53 48 minutes, 53 seconds Okay. Uh I wanted to know like earlier quarter you gave me the break up of uh top sectors where you are active right 49:02 49 minutes, 2 seconds now and uh how in this quarter you are expecting uh them to perform. This is like earlier I think construction was 49:10 49 minutes, 10 seconds there the topmost. Can you elaborate little bit on that? 49:14 49 minutes, 14 seconds So today today also the uh construction industry continues to be our number one in terms of the industry figure. Number 49:22 49 minutes, 22 seconds two probably would be uh auto automotives and so on 49:28 49 minutes, 28 seconds and uh this uh mobile uh I think the vendors I think you how they are in 49:36 49 minutes, 36 seconds percentage mobile standalone would be maybe 2% of our today. Okay. But the percentage wise 49:44 49 minutes, 44 seconds still the construction uh taker is the highest one maybe 30 you said last last quarter 49:52 49 minutes, 52 seconds uh up around 30% you can say yeah so we are not seeing any 3 not 30 I think 35% would be our 50:02 50 minutes, 2 seconds okay you are not seeing any stress in any of the top uh se sectors where you are active right now in this part 50:10 50 minutes, 10 seconds because of these so many events happening. 50:13 50 minutes, 13 seconds No, we are not seeing any stress as of today but we are not uh remaining know ignorance of the fact that there can be a potential stress. So we are uh 50:21 50 minutes, 21 seconds engaging our borrowers and the anchors and we remain very very vigilant. 50:27 50 minutes, 27 seconds Okay. Because we were seeing reports about like say industries getting slowed down because of the availability of those fuel and gases and because maybe we are in steel as well. Right. 50:39 50 minutes, 39 seconds You're right. But there is I may have if I may have a liberty to ask you doctor question if the imports of the steel goes down I think the indust in the 50:48 50 minutes, 48 seconds Indian domestic manufacturers get tend to get benefit also. So it's yet to see you know the impact on the domestic 50:56 50 minutes, 56 seconds business domestic manufacturers domestic uh distributors the impact will be positive negative neutral things are 51:03 51 minutes, 3 seconds evolving very difficult to you know pinpoint today. Okay, thank you. That's it from my side. 51:10 51 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you so much. 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. 51:22 51 minutes, 22 seconds Uh thank you so much. Uh first of all, thank you MK team for organizing this conference. Uh uh really happy to have all the investors asking questions. 51:31 51 minutes, 31 seconds As a as a as your NBFC, we continue to remain a very conservative lender. uh so that is our uh philosophy. So that's why 51:39 51 minutes, 39 seconds our guidance on the NPA continues to be nil. We would want to operate keeping finger crossed without incurring any delinquency. However, on the business 51:47 51 minutes, 47 seconds momentum, we will continue to write our incremental equity which are raised in Q4. It is going to benefit us to maintain this momentum in Q1 and the 51:56 51 minutes, 56 seconds subsequent quarters also on a medium to long-term uh our AUM growth guidance is 25 to 30%. But if I were to dissect it 52:04 52 minutes, 4 seconds between FI27 and years further, I think 35 to 40% is the guidance which we are aspiring to achieve as a growth in FI27. 52:14 52 minutes, 14 seconds Profitability perspective we continue to operate with the return on asset of 4.5 to 5% kind of a range with return on 52:21 52 minutes, 21 seconds equity of 14 to 16% kind of a range and cost to income between 13 to 17% range and that is the number uh which we are 52:30 52 minutes, 30 seconds uh given as a budget to ourselves and this is the guidance we are announcing into the investors also. 52:37 52 minutes, 37 seconds Thank you so much. Uh we look forward to you know interacting with you again uh in this Q1 result conference. 52:48 52 minutes, 48 seconds Thank you sir. On behalf of MK Global Financial Services Limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for 52:55 52 minutes, 55 seconds joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.