One 97 Communications Ltd — Q4 FY26

One 97 Communications Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45Q7ylriVhQ Published: 6 days ago

0:00 Good morning everyone. 0:03 3 seconds Thank you for joining and welcome to PTM's earnings call to discuss our financial results for the quarter and year ending March 31st 2026. 0:13 13 seconds We will start our call with Q&A after introduction to the management from PTM's management. We have with us Mr. 0:19 19 seconds Vijay Shikhar Sharma founder and CEO, Mr. Mad Diora, president and group CFO and Mr. Anush Mittal SE Investor 0:28 28 seconds relations. A few standard announcements [clears throat] before we begin. The information to be presented and discussed here should not be recorded, reproduced or distributed in any manner. 0:38 38 seconds Some statements due today may be forward-looking in nature. Actual events may differ materially from those anticipated in such forward-looking 0:46 46 seconds statements. Finally, this earnings call is scheduled for 45 minutes. A replay of this earnings call and transcript will 0:55 55 seconds be made available on the company's website subsequently. 0:58 58 seconds If you seek to ask a question, kindly utilize the raise hand feature on your Zoom dashboard. Please ensure that your 1:06 1 minute, 6 seconds name is visible as your name, last name followed by your company name for us to be able to identify you. We will unmute your line and take questions in the respective sequence of the raised hats. 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds I would request if all uh folks can limit their questions to two. Uh we will start a Q&A now. 1:31 1 minute, 31 seconds Just waiting for the queue to line up. 1:45 1 minute, 45 seconds Hi, good morning. Um I think uh we this uh thank you for joining us early in the morning and like I'll say it all the 1:52 1 minute, 52 seconds time. You may not switch on the video because I understand this is early in the morning. That's very very much fine. 1:59 1 minute, 59 seconds Um keeping in the tradition we are in switch on video and at the same point of time this time we change the earning release. We try to make it crisper. We 2:07 2 minutes, 7 seconds try to make it simpler. We try to bring about what is important and our communication style to uh tune a little 2:14 2 minutes, 14 seconds more about how we believe that it should be read. So I'm sure uh you will have feedback love to get the feedback and we 2:22 2 minutes, 22 seconds will tune accordingly. I hope you like the one right now with me is Madur and we can start. Thank you. 2:30 2 minutes, 30 seconds Thanks Vijay. The first question will be from Mr. Manisha Dukia from Goldman Sachs. Manish, you may mute your line and uh please ask a question. 2:54 2 minutes, 54 seconds Hey Manish, you can talk now. 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second Uh I think we're facing some technical difficulty. Please allow us. Okay, Manish is here. 3:06 3 minutes, 6 seconds Hi, good morning. Thank you. Sorry it took me a while to get in the room. Uh morning Vijay, morning others. Good to see you. Uh and thank you for taking my 3:13 3 minutes, 13 seconds questions. Uh first one, uh maybe just on the guidance. uh a bit more color on the revenue growth acceleration that 3:20 3 minutes, 20 seconds you've talked about in fiscal 27. Now I understand that you know uh F26 you had doubledigit decline in your marketing services revenue growth. So how much of 3:29 3 minutes, 29 seconds the guidance acceleration in F27 is just a function of marketing services revenue growth recovering versus you probably 3:37 3 minutes, 37 seconds also seeing an acceleration in revenue growth across payments and financial services. And maybe a related question also on the AIDA margins. Uh I know in 3:46 3 minutes, 46 seconds the past you've talked about medium-term aspirational margin of 15 to 20% AIDA and you have ended the year at about 6% with very strong expansion. 3:54 3 minutes, 54 seconds Qualitatively how far away are we from getting to that 15 20% AIDA margin number. That's my first set of question please. 4:01 4 minutes, 1 second I uh talk about marketing services. 4:04 4 minutes, 4 seconds marketing services and cloud and commerce. If you remember all this combined, we call marketing services because we help uh small merch and large 4:11 4 minutes, 11 seconds merchants about making sure they get a from checkout to check check in. I mean we call these services that once the customer is checking out on the shop or 4:19 4 minutes, 19 seconds counter or online the customer comes back. Thanks to AI agents this is the area of focus for us in the next 12 months and let's see how we do it. I do 4:28 4 minutes, 28 seconds believe that it is an extraordinary bigger opportunity considering we've been able to take care of our core payment and financial services. So it was rather about choose what is your 4:37 4 minutes, 37 seconds mode head down execute it and then extend towards next side. U if you read the intent in our AI page it is hinting 4:45 4 minutes, 45 seconds towards that but just to add uh I think the overall acceleration given u payments is about uh 55% of the revenue 4:54 4 minutes, 54 seconds and financial services is about 30% of the revenue. Um to answer your uh to I think the short answer to your question is it is across the board. Uh we are 5:03 5 minutes, 3 seconds seeing strong uh tailwinds and payments both in offline merchants as well as online merchants uh which obviously uh has a full license now and is uh adding 5:12 5 minutes, 12 seconds new customers and so on. And um we are also seeing very good growth in financial services. As we have mentioned before, merchant loans continues to be 5:21 5 minutes, 21 seconds solid and uh we are now seeing recovery in personal loan and market share growth in uh wealth. Um so in addition to what 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds Vij said about marketing services and your and sort of crux to your question, yes we expect that to be a contributor going forward. It has been a bit of a 5:36 5 minutes, 36 seconds drag last year but we think the growth will be across the board and on ibita uh we will maintain about two and a half to 5:45 5 minutes, 45 seconds three years from now that we should be able to get to those sorts of margins. 5:49 5 minutes, 49 seconds Very clear. Thank you madamij. Um maybe second question on financial which you touched upon in the earlier question. uh and I know you stopped giving out 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds dispersal number but from a the post-paid launch that you made uh earlier. If you can just talk about the 6:05 6 minutes, 5 seconds traction this time versus the earlier post speed paid is the traction in terms of ramp up of the product scale or 6:13 6 minutes, 13 seconds dispersal tracking better or similar versus the last iteration any differences in consumer traction that'll be great to 6:21 6 minutes, 21 seconds yeah Manish better than last time classic internet dissimilaration or diffusion of services style it did it 6:28 6 minutes, 28 seconds took x number of time this is taking x by a significant large number time So it's I mean I'm really happy we will not 6:36 6 minutes, 36 seconds give this first. I think this mis mis pushes us towards as if that we are a credit issuing entity which we are not. 6:43 6 minutes, 43 seconds So we are a pure technology platform which helps different people distributors. Uh this is the nearest most Ajax product to our payment and I 6:52 6 minutes, 52 seconds think it is doing phenomenally well. I'm not using going to say it is doing well. 6:56 6 minutes, 56 seconds I'm going to use the word phenomenally well and I'm very happy about it that on the back of it our personal loan dispersements in last month I mean this 7:04 7 minutes, 4 seconds will show up in the next quarter have started showing up I mean we have started to go back to if you read a particular text of personal loan 7:12 7 minutes, 12 seconds dispersement it is not that we are any more measured about or limited about it is rather going next level 7:19 7 minutes, 19 seconds and and just to remind everyone this is a classic compounding business because our signups are very strong and repeat 7:27 7 minutes, 27 seconds rates are very strong uh so it just sort of compounds upwards um as you sort of just go through time um so we're seeing 7:35 7 minutes, 35 seconds that sort of compounding traction um and and is significantly faster as you can imagine from the first time uh we started the postp journal 7:43 7 minutes, 43 seconds sure just a quick clarification on that one and I know you don't give dispersals but I recall last time when you used to give dispersal the [clears throat] peak of the dispersal for postpaid was about 7:51 7 minutes, 51 seconds 9,000 crores a quarter and given that you're saying that the ramp ramp up is actually faster. 7:57 7 minutes, 57 seconds No reason why you should not get to the number at some point in time in the foreseeable future. I mean would that be a fair statement? 8:04 8 minutes, 4 seconds No comments towards any guidance of hint of it. 8:07 8 minutes, 7 seconds All right, great. I I tried. Uh maybe just last question before I just jump back in the queue. PPBL ban I know you're an assoc uh it's an associate for 8:14 8 minutes, 14 seconds you. You don't have any management um uh control there. But in terms of just any early impact on your listed entry OCL 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds just because you share a common brand in terms of consumer merchant acquisition or churn and what does that mean now from your own wallet or prepaid 8:31 8 minutes, 31 seconds instrument application to the RBI and the outlook for that that's my last question thank you I think uh no impacts we did it in press 8:39 8 minutes, 39 seconds earning release on the system and we remain committed sure and wallet license no we remain submitted. 8:48 8 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. Sure. Uh thank you Vijay Madur. 8:52 8 minutes, 52 seconds All the best and thanks for taking my questions. 8:54 8 minutes, 54 seconds Thanks Manish. The next question uh we'll take from Mr. Sachin Salgangur from Kofa followed by Pranov Chhatria from MK. Sachin you may please go ahead. 9:04 9 minutes, 4 seconds Thanks Anand. Uh good morning management. Uh first question generally a followup you know when we look about 9:10 9 minutes, 10 seconds uh growth accelerating in FI27 uh there are multiple other small businesses which are yet to scale up 9:18 9 minutes, 18 seconds wealth management brokerage uh you know insurance even on the personal loan basis any color in terms of you know I 9:25 9 minutes, 25 seconds mean should we see a good amount of acceleration coming from these businesses scaling up or it's the existing uh merchant loan business uh 9:34 9 minutes, 34 seconds Soundbox as well as uh the core payments business which will help accelerate the growth in a very simplistic manner you know I mean should the core business 9:43 9 minutes, 43 seconds show acceleration of growth or you know should we see combination of both actually so first of all the business model is straight and simple that we acquire 9:51 9 minutes, 51 seconds customers using payments and we crossell financial services we've done good in credit we definitely are right now focused on wealth or wealth or 9:59 9 minutes, 59 seconds securities brokerage whatever the line item that we want to call combined into one wealth item it is critical for us to make it a third leg of growth it is it 10:07 10 minutes, 7 seconds may not and I've said it in last earning call that we want to see ourselves in top five sooner than later and that remains a focus area individually for me 10:16 10 minutes, 16 seconds also in other words I'm saying that payment has to scale because that is the TAM so there is no alternate to that we will keep investing if you notice we 10:25 10 minutes, 25 seconds have very clearly articulated the amount of invested in expansion amount in creation so our cost optimization is rather about creation of the product and 10:33 10 minutes, 33 seconds platform of payments because the cost is much lesser in that and continue to reduce but the attention is more about expanding that platform to a dramatic 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds large enough optimum time a dramatic large from today optimum because we don't want to acquire everyone that is the word I'm using so it is an 10:49 10 minutes, 49 seconds obligation and right now we are so happy seeing the monetization cycles showing up that that is the primary opportunity of it in fact over the period PDM could 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds be looked at as the payment platform that monetized in financial services so well but such a message you should take away is it is more or less across the board. 11:08 11 minutes, 8 seconds Our large established businesses, we see huge opportunity ahead. We love our merchants online and offline. Last year 11:15 11 minutes, 15 seconds online had a headwind that we did not have permission to onboard new customers for about half the year. That's lifted. We're seeing good traction there. 11:23 11 minutes, 23 seconds Offline obviously there's huge market opportunity still ahead. I know there's a very popularly asked question which is uh hey you have you have added x number 11:32 11 minutes, 32 seconds of uh merchants. Do you still see growth ahead? Absolutely. We are seeing market expansion and we are seeing market share growth. Uh so that's uh going really 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds well. So that's one bucket of large established overall profitable businesses. The second bucket is uh 11:49 11 minutes, 49 seconds businesses which had scaled but had some headwinds in the last couple of years. 11:53 11 minutes, 53 seconds So advertising because of our MTU and app revamp had a headwind. Personal loans had a headwind because of credit cycle. A lot of that is turning into tailwinds from a slightly lower base. 12:04 12 minutes, 4 seconds And then the third one like Vijay said is where is the third pillar and the third pillar we think is in uh wealth 12:11 12 minutes, 11 seconds and uh there I would characterize that as a slightly different business where we are younger and have low market share but great opportunity to increase market share and these are proven businesses. 12:21 12 minutes, 21 seconds Uh so that's why uh where sort of retail broking if you will gets filtered uh to the top. So those are sort of the three 12:29 12 minutes, 29 seconds legs of revenue growth and we are we're sure quite excited about each one of those three buckets. Great. Thanks for the detailed answer. 12:37 12 minutes, 37 seconds Uh my next question is a statement you mentioned in your shareholders letter that uh you're looking to keep some dry power for selective inorganic action. 12:47 12 minutes, 47 seconds Now on a really big picture basis you know how could we think about this? Any specific areas in the current business you are looking to focus? Is it more on 12:56 12 minutes, 56 seconds international alliance or is it any kind of a new opportunity which is going to open given the fact that uh AI could open up doors for new businesses as well? 13:05 13 minutes, 5 seconds Yeah, any new investment [clears throat] only in AI sorry uh 13:13 13 minutes, 13 seconds any any new investment only in AI. Oh, in only in AI. Okay. And you know I mean Vijay and when we talk about AI is it 13:21 13 minutes, 21 seconds something which is going to help the existing businesses or it could be a completely new line of business actually. 13:26 13 minutes, 26 seconds No it's primarily the same customers same merchant primarily making their life better like I told last Manish's question that we believe there will be 13:35 13 minutes, 35 seconds significant amount of opportunity for us to create a so on. So got it. Uh and last just a bit of 13:41 13 minutes, 41 seconds followup uh uh on u uh this RBI thing where uh what kind of further uh 13:49 13 minutes, 49 seconds permissions licenses are we expecting from RBI? One is wallet which is largely known but beyond wallet is there anything which is pending per se from a 13:58 13 minutes, 58 seconds RBI point of view where you guys have applied? No. 14:04 14 minutes, 4 seconds And uh Vijay any timeline when we could expect the wallet license I'd rather put it down and execute 14:11 14 minutes, 11 seconds journey there is so much on the plate and table that I would say that ambiguity is behind us. 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds Okay great thanks and all the best. 14:21 14 minutes, 21 seconds Thanks Ashin. We'll take the next question from Prana Chhatria from MK followed by Vijay Jen from city prana please go ahead. 14:33 14 minutes, 33 seconds Um my first question is uh you know regarding the higher promotional and cash back incentives. So we seen this uh 14:40 14 minutes, 40 seconds expense uh going up quarter on quarter uh but uh you know uh correspondingly we not really seen any jump in the 14:47 14 minutes, 47 seconds marketing services. I understand this is a seasonally lean for marketing services. Uh but there is no increase in 14:54 14 minutes, 54 seconds the MTO as well. So how should we see this uh uh you know trending and what is the uh you know timeline for it to give outcome? 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds I think it is the marketing services where you sort of expect let's say our commerce line items to do good job but 15:11 15 minutes, 11 seconds it is also going in expansion and cleanup of our existing customers trying towards other services beyond just 15:20 15 minutes, 20 seconds marketing services. For example, like there is digital gold on our platform. 15:23 15 minutes, 23 seconds There is a element of deal discount gift vouchers. We believe that strengthening the mode of customers and locking in on 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds our platform is a first priority. Uh which is what the payments core job is. 15:37 15 minutes, 37 seconds And we do acquire customers. I mean you know it's it's a two choice two put that we can continue to acquire a incremental 15:44 15 minutes, 44 seconds costly incremental lower cost customer who is not in the ecosystem and the cost of that is that you will not have large 15:51 15 minutes, 51 seconds users because the new incremental customer left in the ecosystem is a very low uh transacting or low value customer if you will. So we are trying to acquire 16:00 16 minutes high quality good quality customers. So the increase in spend will consistently go up but it will not go up in the ratio of what you could just recklessly spend. 16:11 16 minutes, 11 seconds So we have been measured and we remain measured in spending but at the same point of time we are conscious about what kind of quality of customer are we 16:18 16 minutes, 18 seconds getting and what purpose the customer is coming. So there these things go through quarteronquarter measurements and recalibrations. At the same point of 16:26 16 minutes, 26 seconds time I'm committing this once again that we will continue to spend it not more than what the ratios have been right now like we have always said it. So it is not an incremental extra spend at all. 16:37 16 minutes, 37 seconds First of all it is within the guidance we have given at the same usage of this money will continue to calibrate towards which service is what we continue to do it. 16:46 16 minutes, 46 seconds Just just a couple of tactical things to just contextualize. One is uh you have to look at it sort of like marketing expenses and cash back together. uh 16:54 16 minutes, 54 seconds because some of those um are decisions that the teams make in terms of where they want to spend their uh marketing 17:01 17 minutes, 1 second dollars. Uh the second is uh while the MTU number [clears throat] may not reflect all of the impact of this spend 17:09 17 minutes, 9 seconds but if you look at our engagement that has gone up dramatically. So the market share growth that you're seeing is far exceeding if you will MTU growth to 17:17 17 minutes, 17 seconds underline the point that which I mentioned about uh quality of customers and engagement of customers and take a step back if we were to break our 17:26 17 minutes, 26 seconds business into consumer side and merchant side we have had the best uh quarter from a profitability standpoint on the consumer side in the last eight 17:34 17 minutes, 34 seconds quarters. So uh it is flowing down to the bottom line uh these addition despite these additional spends. 17:43 17 minutes, 43 seconds Okay. Fantastic. Uh my second question is uh regarding indirect cost. Uh so you know typically Q1 will have you know 17:52 17 minutes, 52 seconds higher employee cost on account of appraisals and salary hikes. So how should it trend uh from here on? uh uh 18:00 18 minutes should we should we expect that to remain in current uh you know 1150 thereabouts or uh it can now be significantly higher than that. 18:10 18 minutes, 10 seconds So, so there are quarter quarter changes particularly u including the impact of appraisals. But if we look out outwards 18:18 18 minutes, 18 seconds towards the next year, we do think that um like we have said this will grow significantly lower than revenue and 18:25 18 minutes, 25 seconds contribution profit growth and continued operating leverage as a result of that. 18:29 18 minutes, 29 seconds And the second point I'd make is that we still see efficiencies uh in various parts of the organization due to use of AI. 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds Okay, excellent. From my side, I'll get back in queue. Thank you so much. Thanks for the next question is from Vijay Jen from 18:47 18 minutes, 47 seconds City followed by Jayant Karote from Access Capital. Yeah. Hi. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yep. 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Hi. Thank you. Uh my first question um is uh you know um 19:03 19 minutes, 3 seconds Oh, he's going to rejoin. We have not as a panelist. 19:08 19 minutes, 8 seconds Someone else I think I can you hear me now? Yes. 19:14 19 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah. Sorry. I think Yeah. Uh so my first question is on net payment margins. Uh good to see you know uh uh 19:21 19 minutes, 21 seconds nine basis point overall. You've said that it's remained above four basis point despite the you know PF subsidies 19:28 19 minutes, 28 seconds and so on going away. Looking ahead uh you know what would you call the major drivers for it continuing to go up? Uh I 19:36 19 minutes, 36 seconds know you have uh various streams uh uh merchant fees, instant settlement. Uh I don't know if you're deploying working 19:43 19 minutes, 43 seconds capital towards instant settlement. Um and then of course you have UPI credit and EMI. So I just wanted to get your 19:51 19 minutes, 51 seconds sense on all three or four different drivers where you still think there are there is decent upside and how do you 19:58 19 minutes, 58 seconds get those upsides? uh are these going to be more push uh driven or just organically will happen? I I think there's a whole bunch of smaller 20:07 20 minutes, 7 seconds factors but the two major factors especially when we think about payment processing margin which is uh what we have said is higher than four pips. The 20:14 20 minutes, 14 seconds two major factors are um our product improvements um giving us the luxury of having uh 20:22 20 minutes, 22 seconds pricing discipline. So we have talked about pricing discipline in the presentation but uh the underlying piece is that our product keeps getting better 20:31 20 minutes, 31 seconds and better and as a result customers uh merchants in this case are seeing more value um in our product. Um and the 20:39 20 minutes, 39 seconds second is uh just a shift in the industry which is uh credit instruments uh being on UPI rails um and growing at 20:48 20 minutes, 48 seconds much faster pace than overall GMBB. Uh so we talked about credit uh credit card on UPI before. Obviously PTM postp is 20:56 20 minutes, 56 seconds starting to be a contributor as well. Uh still still relatively smaller compared to a couple of years ago but being becoming a contributor as well. And if 21:04 21 minutes, 4 seconds you can have a small even a small percentage of your giving you 20 30 40 whips of margin then 21:11 21 minutes, 11 seconds obviously it does change uh the overall mix significantly. 21:15 21 minutes, 15 seconds Got it. So Madus uh safe to say there are plenty of upside uh drivers to those core net payment margins right from what is right now greater than four business. 21:26 21 minutes, 26 seconds Got it. Thank you. 21:27 21 minutes, 27 seconds And then specifically on some of these you know a lot of your merchants are obviously in the uh you know longtail 21:34 21 minutes, 34 seconds mid-market uh side of things. uh and I would imagine [clears throat] uh you know things like I think uh 21:42 21 minutes, 42 seconds settling uh the balances faster and so on and so forth uh is a potentially more useful thing to those kinds of merchants 21:49 21 minutes, 49 seconds and to larger merchants. Is that is that a is that a product that has a lot of uh success and adoption from merchants? 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds Just want to get a sense of uh you know whether uh you see more avenues for where you could deploy your capital. uh 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds it gets you some fees and is uh you know useful to your merchants as well. Yeah, we do settlement as a product. 22:12 22 minutes, 12 seconds It's a it's a good product. It's a it's industry product. We do it. 22:16 22 minutes, 16 seconds Got it. The next question I had was on PTM money. So in general, you know, are there any product investments that you 22:25 22 minutes, 25 seconds still need to do within PTM money to kind of, you know, make the proposition more compelling to heavy users, traders 22:32 22 minutes, 32 seconds versus say investors? any I'm just trying to get a sense of whether there are gaps there. Short short answer dramatic more. [laughter] 22:40 22 minutes, 40 seconds I mean obviously the AI is changing everything my friend. I mean the agents will show up that will do trading. 22:47 22 minutes, 47 seconds Agents will take care of your portfolio readjustment. Agents will show up. The trading strategy of yours will be reviewed. Agents will create optional 22:55 22 minutes, 55 seconds chain for you. Agent will create scalper. I mean there is I I would rather say I'm I feel lucky that we did 23:04 23 minutes, 4 seconds not dump lot of money earlier because in the AI world everything resets. So we see it as an opportunity of bringing some product that is materially met for 23:12 23 minutes, 12 seconds from now to 2030. I mean the point is what got created in 2020 is not going to work in 2030s that I can write it. So 23:20 23 minutes, 20 seconds anybody who's not investing is an opportunity for us that person's customers. 23:24 23 minutes, 24 seconds Got it. And Vijay so just sticking to that point a little bit more. Uh so what you're talking about is consumerfacing experience of how you trade. Uh is there 23:33 23 minutes, 33 seconds anything on the back end also that you need to invest in to be uh to be able to serve is I mean consumer facing is rather 23:42 23 minutes, 42 seconds consumer facing is going to get easier because you will not tap tap tap tap tap tap. I see. 23:46 23 minutes, 46 seconds So everything is a backend investment. I mean everything is a core investment machine. Anything that shows up in the front it is only as good as it is in the 23:55 23 minutes, 55 seconds back. Understood. My last understood Vijay. Um my last question uh you know any comments on how PTM checkin has done 24:04 24 minutes, 4 seconds since you've launched it. I think it's been a few quarters. 24:06 24 minutes, 6 seconds This is so so so vit this is our dip test that how Indian consumers are okay 24:13 24 minutes, 13 seconds for an interface that is chat interface agent interface completely agent. M so it's our perfect experiment to look 24:21 24 minutes, 21 seconds at it and we picked up a different brand name so that people don't perceive that okay this has got popped out or something it is completely agentic 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds approach towards consumer interfaces I see agentic interface as rejuvenated new 24:36 24 minutes, 36 seconds opportunity for PTM to gain consumer shares in dramatic in number of categories okay and this is our experiment category 24:44 24 minutes, 44 seconds good to hear thank you which is one side note you will be shocked The funnel conversion on agent techic 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds when a customer starts it typically is two or 3% in a funnel that starts with a commitment is the customer can be browsing but funnel 25:00 25 minutes converts meaning 100 people if they're searching it goes to 3% in a good scenario good product company would do that 25:07 25 minutes, 7 seconds I mean it's seven or eight times more than that my friends seven or eight times more it is 700% better funnel 25:15 25 minutes, 15 seconds because of a trick I mean boom So people go closer to transaction 25:22 25 minutes, 22 seconds complete more seven times more people complete the funnel in agentic workflow than a tap workflow. 25:28 25 minutes, 28 seconds Okay, good to hear. Yeah, thank you so much. Uh best of luck uh for FI27. Thank you. Thank you. 25:36 25 minutes, 36 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Jay from Active Capital followed by Aaral. 25:43 25 minutes, 43 seconds Uh oh. I think uh it forces people if I add them. So I got it. 25:55 25 minutes, 55 seconds Hi. 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds No, no. I just made him a panelist and because you can get someone else. I got Am I audible? Hello. 26:05 26 minutes, 5 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You are. I don't know how promoted to panelist. 26:08 26 minutes, 8 seconds Anyways, congratulations for great performance on financials uh services. 26:12 26 minutes, 12 seconds Guys, first question was on the payments piece. I see you have done uh a very strong growth over there. If I see this 26:21 26 minutes, 21 seconds quarter versus last year fourth quarter uh both your GMV is up 27% and the margins are moving from this more than 26:29 26 minutes, 29 seconds three to more than four basis points. U that actually throws up a very high growth number on the payment processing 26:37 26 minutes, 37 seconds margins. It's more like 50 60%. Is this a real number or or are we missing something? I mean that is quite high growth in improvement process. 26:45 26 minutes, 45 seconds So I'm just our guidance earlier was greater than three which is not to say that we were exactly at three but the maths that you're doing while adjusted 26:53 26 minutes, 53 seconds for that number is correct that our payment processing margin has been very strong. 26:58 26 minutes, 58 seconds Great. Now unfortunately what that implies is the subscription revenue has not grown at all yi uh and this is 27:05 27 minutes, 5 seconds despite us adding 27 lakh devices which is 22% on our base um is that because a lot of these would have gone for PF uh 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds link devices uh and then of course how do we think about this without any price hike it means the device addition is not fully translating to revenue growth. 27:24 27 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah. So, um it is the case that uh PF has an impact. Uh and it is also the case that adjusted for uh even uh sorry 27:34 27 minutes, 34 seconds without adjusting for that uh the device subscription per device overall is slightly lower. Uh but we do see this as a very good funnel to merchant lending. 27:46 27 minutes, 46 seconds So what we look at internally is payback periods at a very very detailed cohort level and those payback periods are improving significantly and part of that 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds is also because we are getting more efficient at acquiring customers at our capex per device as well as um as well 28:03 28 minutes, 3 seconds as uh uh retention of merchants. Uh but does that mean so because they have two strong pillars in in the uh net net 28:12 28 minutes, 12 seconds payment uh uh revenues does that mean that uh essentially looking ahead it it's going to be largely uh net payment 28:21 28 minutes, 21 seconds processing margin that's going to do the heavy lifting on on this revenue line item. Uh it is the case that payment processing margin is growing faster and 28:29 28 minutes, 29 seconds as because payment partly because payment processing margin is growing faster but combined with the fact that our lending penetration is going up we 28:38 28 minutes, 38 seconds are okay to make a little bit less money on device device subscription per merchant great and just one follow up on that 28:45 28 minutes, 45 seconds only that the credit card on UPI growth uh I mean you've seen the whole industry credit card growth is just uh cratered 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds right now uh to to single digit uh and generally what we've been observing is credit card on rupe uh uh UPI moves 2x 29:01 29 minutes, 1 second of of that number roughly so that has been like 30% when industry was at 15 now that industry is down to 7 to 10 are 29:08 29 minutes, 8 seconds you observing a similar moderation from that 30 or 20 uh 25 and then of course the worries are GMP growth then moves in 29:16 29 minutes, 16 seconds sync with credit card on uh rupe UPI and then how does the margin expansion happen uh what you're saying logically should 29:23 29 minutes, 23 seconds have some impact back but I don't think we're seeing anything noticeable there. 29:27 29 minutes, 27 seconds I mean I would point out that credit card on UPI is still a very small very very small percentage of overall credit card but one thing we can tell that our 29:36 29 minutes, 36 seconds credit card on UPI percentage is more than the credit uh standard bank account payment percentage that tells that we have a higher quality customers on our 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds app. Oh definitely and that has been giving a very good margin improvement for margin improvement is rather about 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds because we have a high quality I mean PTM has been ever since and all these events have still made the customers retain means they are long 30:00 30 minutes enough old customers and that means that they are high quality which extends towards creditworthiness which extends towards their credit card usage. Our credit card usage is more than the market share and order of magnitude. 30:11 30 minutes, 11 seconds Once again, I mean that is why our JV growth has been higher because if you notice the same number of MTU didn't grow but usage grew because the product 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds became better, product became better for the customers who are better quality customers. So we talk about product quality, customer quality, not just the volume. 30:30 30 minutes, 30 seconds Great. And uh lastly on costs and margin um we are guiding for more than 22% 30:37 30 minutes, 37 seconds growth and if I'm correct now contribution margins we should expect uh between 55 to 60 but maybe more 55 to uh 30:47 30 minutes, 47 seconds rather than 60 what what was happening because of the PF impact. So that I mean and then indirect costs I'm seeing after 30:55 30 minutes, 55 seconds a great performance for eight quarters uh is rightfully so you're investing in growth is is is picking up. So does that mean that from here on the journey is 31:04 31 minutes, 4 seconds going to be incremental rather than what we saw last year. If you see Q4 versus Q3 uh registered growth is a decent 30 31:12 31 minutes, 12 seconds cr. But does it mean we should look at something more linear now than than the exponential numbers uh that that we saw through last year? 31:21 31 minutes, 21 seconds Um we I assume you're talking about IBIDA margin like we said in writing uh we do expect significant operating 31:28 31 minutes, 28 seconds leverage going forward because logically the math that you were doing if we have a revenue growth acceleration which we 31:35 31 minutes, 35 seconds are confident of um and indirect expense is growing significantly lower then just em the math is just embedded in that 31:44 31 minutes, 44 seconds that you would see significant uh operating leverage going forward. Uh I was just talking about the journey madur is it is it going to be upfronted or 31:52 31 minutes, 52 seconds should we now think of this to be slightly more backended uh I don't want to get into quarter on quarter but if we are sitting here a 32:00 32 minutes year from now uh we're confident that uh we would see we would have we'll look back and say there was significant operating leverage and margin expansion as a result. 32:10 32 minutes, 10 seconds Great uh thanks and congratulations once again for a great set of results. Thank you. 32:15 32 minutes, 15 seconds Thanks J. We'll take the next question from Koshik Berbal uh followed by Rahul Jan from Dollar Capital. Koshik, can you go ahead please? 32:32 32 minutes, 32 seconds You are on mute. If you can unmute your line, you can 32:41 32 minutes, 41 seconds Oh, Rahul. Go ahead. You can ask us the question. 32:50 32 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Uh thanks for the opportunity. 32:54 32 minutes, 54 seconds Uh firstly, uh we have highlighted about the investment we intend to do on the cashback side. Can you highlight some of 33:01 33 minutes, 1 second the consumer use cases and also from a run rate point of view uh do we see a meaningful increase from the exit of 1 billion odd we invested in this quarter? 33:13 33 minutes, 13 seconds Can you just go to the first question again and quit cash? 33:17 33 minutes, 17 seconds Yeah. Uh the cashback investment that we want to do uh uh are there any specific areas where we are trying to because we 33:25 33 minutes, 25 seconds highlighted there are high margin segment that we would like to invest. 33:30 33 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah. So um Vij which I think was sort of already touched upon this uh uh our uh digital gold is uh one of those 33:38 33 minutes, 38 seconds categories uh and then which which is covered in financial services just as a housekeeping point and in uh there are 33:45 33 minutes, 45 seconds several use cases on uh marketing services particularly travel where we see good ROI on investments um and then 33:53 33 minutes, 53 seconds there's also always a chunk of investment that goes into um uh ensuring ing that you're building more engagement 34:01 34 minutes, 1 second and more retention of merch of customers. 34:05 34 minutes, 5 seconds Surely and uh on the sales headbound side, do we see uh some more optimization to happen uh since the sunset on the uh PF scheme? 34:16 34 minutes, 16 seconds Uh I think it's a com uh the it's a combination of sales optimization as well as uh subscription revenue per 34:24 34 minutes, 24 seconds device optimization. We had said last quarter uh in in end of January that uh we'll be able to significantly offset it 34:32 34 minutes, 32 seconds over the next few quarters and our our Q4 and I think it was in response to a question was that we would uh be able to 34:40 34 minutes, 40 seconds offset 30 to 40%. So I'm pleased to report that we did achieve that and we're confident that over time we'll be able to significantly achieve uh a full 34:49 34 minutes, 49 seconds near full offset and some of that will show up in uh sales cost impact. 34:55 34 minutes, 55 seconds Sure. And just lastly uh of course people have tried asking this on the AI uh investments uh would would this could 35:04 35 minutes, 4 seconds be also on line of creating a captive data center for more data inferencing or this could be purely from an M&A point of view. 35:13 35 minutes, 13 seconds Uh Rahul there is nothing like we don't have a cipex plan only yet. I mean there is enough amount of capeex that US big 35:22 35 minutes, 22 seconds guys are doing and we don't think that we have a game in that yet. Um we do believe there is an opportunity for us to invest in AI equal to like saying 35:30 35 minutes, 30 seconds let's say we are using agents for our customers we can rent somewhere a data center we can rent uh let's say in 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds medias and then run our own model on top of it that kind of investment investment is attention and effort not just capital 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds we don't have a material capital investment plan right now on the table or in plan 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds thank you those were my questions Thank you. 35:56 35 minutes, 56 seconds Thank you. We will take the next question from Hershit from PNG followed by Sachin Dixit from JM Financial. Hit 36:04 36 minutes, 4 seconds you may please unmute your line. I'll go ahead. 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds Hi Vijay. Hi Madur. Uh so the question was more to get some sense of our merchant ecosystem base. So V I think 36:15 36 minutes, 15 seconds the the point was that probably we are lending to a segment where uh they are 36:21 36 minutes, 21 seconds okay to borrow at that 25 30% uh rough error for them now and probably obviously I know that you guys don't 36:30 36 minutes, 30 seconds give the dispersement number but some sort of calculations etc whatever that number is but that number is even if I 36:37 36 minutes, 37 seconds take a 40 50,000 cr of annual run rate uh we would be a large part of that market itself at the addressable market 36:45 36 minutes, 45 seconds now. So just want to get a sense that our payment service or financial distribution revenue growth from here on 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds will it be driven by the consumer loan products incrementally and in case of merchants do you envisage a situation 37:00 37 minutes that uh probably it's the lower yielding segment where we'll have to move to expand to maintain this growth run rate. 37:09 37 minutes, 9 seconds So broadly some color on on the merchant profile and probably your market share within the whatever you guys think as 37:17 37 minutes, 17 seconds the addressable market share market for this range of merchant lending. Best part is that we don't own the book. 37:26 37 minutes, 26 seconds So everybody who wants to serve this customer is our potential partner including banks or anybody else if you want to acknowledge that. So we don't 37:34 37 minutes, 34 seconds have a market share problem because we own certain book versus somebody else owns certain book. They go to the current vendors who are interested in 37:42 37 minutes, 42 seconds the vendor. We become the channel. Now the most logical captive customer of the customer uh are merchant where we are 37:52 37 minutes, 52 seconds capturing everyday payment flow is us most logical. Anybody else can also do it but most logical is us on our 37:59 37 minutes, 59 seconds customer base. We are penetrated less than 5% or 5.5% right now on merchant base about 7%. about 7% and 38:07 38 minutes, 7 seconds that two based on subscription merchant denominator. Remember the person who who has a selection bias of paying a subscription we are talking 38:16 38 minutes, 16 seconds 7% penetration all obviously there is a large number of merchant base otherwise beyond that we fundamentally 38:24 38 minutes, 24 seconds no my my point on competition was more from yeah no my point on competition when I 38:33 38 minutes, 33 seconds asked was more from the distribution itself that for example uh many other players will also have access to that customer over time if not today uh and 38:42 38 minutes, 42 seconds the engagement they everyone will try to increase their engagement so competition as a distribution partner is what I was trying to understand rather than from 38:50 38 minutes, 50 seconds the lender's point of view all right so the merchant who is our merchant if that merchant deflects from us as a payment merchant we don't think 38:58 38 minutes, 58 seconds that we would be in a superior state or somebody who does not have that merchant will have a superior state of distributing so it's a counter share 39:06 39 minutes, 6 seconds kind of question as you know herit that if you so there are two kind of merchant exclusive to us or non-exclusive to us 39:13 39 minutes, 13 seconds only that in a non-exclusive case if we are getting a lesser data we anyways are not going to help him get loan unless we have a larger enough 39:22 39 minutes, 22 seconds payment flow data that we are able to partner with our lender lender believes that yes this is good enough I would like to extend the loan we don't I mean 39:31 39 minutes, 31 seconds we don't have a again much more to do but to retain a payment much and do a good job of distributing and collecting 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds And if I if I may just expand the question a little bit just to the building blocks of this. So one is we have the core product of merchant loans 39:48 39 minutes, 48 seconds which you described is to smaller merchants smaller ticket size. We've been doing it for 6 years really really well and there as Vijay said we have 39:55 39 minutes, 55 seconds about 7% penetration so huge room to expand that. The second is a TAM expansion story which I think you touched about a little bit Harsh on the 40:03 40 minutes, 3 seconds merchant loan product that we do have types of merchants who may not find our current products or the products that we 40:10 40 minutes, 10 seconds had in FY26 suitable. So those could be larger ticket size loans for example where like Vijay said because we partner 40:18 40 minutes, 18 seconds with lenders and if lenders want to distribute uh such loans to them then we are logical partner for that. So that's the merchant loan story and slightly 40:27 40 minutes, 27 seconds more broadly we expect uh things like wealth and personal loans to be a much bigger contributor next year uh than before. So what we're excited about in 40:36 40 minutes, 36 seconds this financial services line is that there are multiple drivers of growth next year which are quite visible. 40:43 40 minutes, 43 seconds Got it. Got it. Fair point. Perfect. Done. Thanks a lot. Thanks. Thank you. 40:51 40 minutes, 51 seconds Uh thanks. We will take the next question from Piran Engineer from CLSA followed by Sachin Sachin Shar J 40:59 40 minutes, 59 seconds financial if that's okay you can go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Uh, hi. Good morning guys. Congrats on the quarter. Just 41:06 41 minutes, 6 seconds firstly on um on the retail broking thing. You touched upon using AI to sort of grow that business. But uh firstly, 41:14 41 minutes, 14 seconds are we targeting customers who don't have a broking account or are we going after everyone? Because I'm assuming that out of your 78 crore active 41:22 41 minutes, 22 seconds customers, a lot would already be broking with one of the incumbent platforms, right? Uh so how are you 41:29 41 minutes, 29 seconds thinking about that? So we add on both sides. We add customers from both side. 41:33 41 minutes, 33 seconds We net and from other platforms and we get new customers. 41:38 41 minutes, 38 seconds But then come from new customers mostly new are mostly towards mutual fund and 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds SIP creations and typically it it it may be called uh churn from other platform or customers are located to have multiple accounts as well. 41:55 41 minutes, 55 seconds But then what's our value proposition for the core FNO kind of traders versus say a zeroda or a gross platform? 42:03 42 minutes, 3 seconds See also I I I get a sense we analysts are not allowed to trade but most traders want to be in charge of their 42:10 42 minutes, 10 seconds trading right they probably don't want an AI agent to recommend etc. Um so I'm not too sure how that strategy will help 42:18 42 minutes, 18 seconds the core when we when we launch the product you'll get to see it. I mean there's nothing more about it. I mean it's nothing better to say than when it gets 42:27 42 minutes, 27 seconds launched. I mean there is no no secret spice. I'm going to say something. It's very visible to everybody. I I see it as 42:35 42 minutes, 35 seconds writing on the wall. I see it as everybody knows that what impact of AI and addition of AI will do to the product for any segment that you want. 42:43 42 minutes, 43 seconds It's it's as normal as that and we will not uh indulge in price discounting etc. Right. To gain share 42:50 42 minutes, 50 seconds there. So, so always remember P our customer equation is payments. This is our monetization layer 42:58 42 minutes, 58 seconds which means that we are okay giving it slightly cheaper like if zeroda is doing 20 bucks a trade. 43:03 43 minutes, 3 seconds I I don't think this is a price right question yet. I mean you're going now probably so the time when we are 43:10 43 minutes, 10 seconds competing with uh anybody else for the price you so see see you see our pricing we we don't think the price is a value we believe product is a value pricing is 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds like commodity any which way for anybody to buy for okay fair those who discount their product they feel that is a value of 43:26 43 minutes, 26 seconds their product fair okay uh just secondly a data keeping question this quarter and last 43:33 43 minutes, 33 seconds quarter what is the proportion of DG in our merchant loan dispersements uh proportion of DLG is broadly flat 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds maybe slightly higher uh as in proportion of loans that go through DL that come with DG 43:51 43 minutes, 51 seconds is uh probably slightly higher the amount of DG is flat flattish 43:57 43 minutes, 57 seconds should I take it at 20 25% or a bit higher than that I don't think we've guided that before 44:04 44 minutes, 4 seconds uh and it's not a metric that honestly we try to sort of keep within certain guard rails or target a certain number. 44:11 44 minutes, 11 seconds So I would rather not connect that. 44:14 44 minutes, 14 seconds Got it. Okay. And just uh lastly, can you give us some color on online versus offline growth on the merchant processing side? 44:23 44 minutes, 23 seconds Online I'd say we've started to grow the GMV. We've started to farm the account better and we obviously started to add new customers. So there is I would 44:32 44 minutes, 32 seconds rather say that online has bigger opportunity now considering there are D2C brands there are offline people 44:40 44 minutes, 40 seconds going online than we envisaged a year back that I can say so we will address and are addressing it accordingly in 44:48 44 minutes, 48 seconds that approach and Vijay what proportion of our merchant GMBB would it be now I understand it's small but like single 44:56 44 minutes, 56 seconds digit small or no yes I mean I'm Unless we are very significant player in online 45:04 45 minutes, 4 seconds merchants despite the fact that until last year uh we were not really adding new customers for greater 45:12 45 minutes, 12 seconds than 3 years right so we're very significant player there uh it is uh very meaningful double digits GMBB so it's not single digits 45:20 45 minutes, 20 seconds and all so I won't dispel that uh we don't really look at it as a percent of total because they have independent growth drivers there's huge now hunting 45:29 45 minutes, 29 seconds opportunities as well as farming opportunities in online merchants while uh while maintaining pricing discipline. 45:36 45 minutes, 36 seconds And in the offline merchant base, we have a very large enterprise business as we have talked about before um which is uh independently profitable. 45:46 45 minutes, 46 seconds And then we have the SMB business as we call it uh which um which has investments because that is very sales 45:54 45 minutes, 54 seconds team heavy but then it also is the target market primarily primarily for a merchant business. So these three things 46:01 46 minutes, 1 second have sort of independent growth drivers and run by very very strong management teams in each cases each case and they 46:10 46 minutes, 10 seconds uh march ahead. There is a common issue that there are certain merchants who who benefit from omni channel solutions. Uh 46:17 46 minutes, 17 seconds so that sort of overrites and that's the sort of collaboration between the teams but they're largely sort of independent operations. 46:25 46 minutes, 25 seconds Got it. Got it. Okay. Yeah. That's it from my end. Uh thanks and all the best. 46:29 46 minutes, 29 seconds Thank you. Thank you. We'll take the next question from Sachenda from JM Financial followed by the last question of the day from Alush Shivas from UPS. 46:39 46 minutes, 39 seconds Sach you may go ahead. 46:41 46 minutes, 41 seconds Thanks Anand. Hi uh Vijay and uh on the question side my first question was on basically monetization of some of the AI 46:50 46 minutes, 50 seconds products. I do understand it's still early days but can you talk about anything that we are seeing on the especially on the soundbox with AI 46:57 46 minutes, 57 seconds capabilities part or any other products where you are actually seeing some monetization benefits also creeping up already. 47:04 47 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So classically marketing which we used to give them tools now we are asking them to do it through agent. 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds So we believe that merchant will be able to do it easier because agent will do the necessary job of workflow taking care versus let's say we are giving 47:17 47 minutes, 17 seconds certain marketing products. So that is the kind of approach that we are taking. 47:21 47 minutes, 21 seconds So the product line item still will remain the same and it will become better as a penetration and usage because we are using AI or allowing merchant to use or customer to use AI. 47:33 47 minutes, 33 seconds So sorry which if I understand it right uh monetization is users linked is it uh monetization is let's say I'm saying 47:42 47 minutes, 42 seconds the customer that you can use for acquiring or retaining customers. So the person may be we may charge subscription 47:49 47 minutes, 49 seconds plus usage or only the usage so that the person does more usage. So approach will be u somebody wants to reach out make an 47:57 47 minutes, 57 seconds outreach to their customers. We can give it on a let's say you can run an ad on KTM app. You can run communications to through different different 48:05 48 minutes, 5 seconds communication channel to their customers and then you can get the customer acquisition sorted out through our platforms. So these platforms 48:13 48 minutes, 13 seconds monetizations eventually what you're doing it is a tool to achieve more customer acquired more customer retained 48:20 48 minutes, 20 seconds and repeating or stopping the churn. Now the customers our customers can pay for uh certain per consumer basis platform 48:29 48 minutes, 29 seconds subscription basis per usage basis. We are in the midst of these kind of discussions that which of these line item work for us or work for our customers. 48:38 48 minutes, 38 seconds Understood. Understood. Thanks for that. 48:40 48 minutes, 40 seconds Uh on the second question side sort of a top up on Hashid's question as well. Uh is it possible for you to break down the growth drivers of merchant lending? 48:49 48 minutes, 49 seconds Right? I do understand it's growing almost like high 30s if not 40s. Uh going ahead can we break it down between 48:57 48 minutes, 57 seconds that maybe the soundbox devices grow at this rate penetration goes up by this rate and ticket size or any such things uh at this rate. So just to make it more sort of apparent for people like that. 49:07 49 minutes, 7 seconds So good modeling question. I I I think I I I have the data so I can share it. 49:12 49 minutes, 12 seconds So historically what we have seen is three primary drivers of growth. One is the expansion of the base. The second is 49:20 49 minutes, 20 seconds the penetration rate and the third is the increase in ticket size and each one of these has been broadly similar. So 49:30 49 minutes, 30 seconds roughly call it 15% give or take on each one of these drivers. Um and um and you 49:38 49 minutes, 38 seconds know we can dig into this if you if you would like to. Now going forward for our core business we think this will 49:45 49 minutes, 45 seconds probably remain the same. Uh but as at an overall level because as you go for time expansion you may see that um 49:54 49 minutes, 54 seconds ticket sizes might on a blended basis be slightly higher especially if you are more successful in the slightly higher ticket size loans and so on. Uh so if 50:03 50 minutes, 3 seconds you look at that separately then the core business of remains uh intact with those drivers and but there's an opportunity to sort of expand time 50:11 50 minutes, 11 seconds beyond that and where do we see the penetration levels reaching right the sevenish% that 50:18 50 minutes, 18 seconds you mentioned in terms of merchant lending as a percentage of subscription devices. 50:23 50 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah I mean it is broadly been going up at 1% a year. Okay. 50:28 50 minutes, 28 seconds So if you think about a year ago we were broadly at 6%. Now we at closer to 7% and that's about a 15% increase that I 50:36 50 minutes, 36 seconds was talking about earlier. And the core is about the more aged merchant on the platform, the better the lending partner 50:44 50 minutes, 44 seconds have a trust and confidence that this person's ability to repay back. 50:49 50 minutes, 49 seconds And right and just to add to that and this is sort of a logical followup to this is that our engagement with merchants is going 50:58 50 minutes, 58 seconds up very meaningfully. Um and that shows up in our GMV data etc as you would see. 51:03 51 minutes, 3 seconds Um and that could mean that the penetration rates uh start to look a little bit better, the ticket sizes start to look a little bit better and 51:11 51 minutes, 11 seconds sort of break out a bit. Uh so those things do happen and businesses obviously evolve as a result. Uh but it 51:18 51 minutes, 18 seconds is a very interesting I think about 3/4 ago we had sort of ped out uh and we can share that earnings release with you separately. Um exactly what we have seen over the last four years. 51:31 51 minutes, 31 seconds Understood. Understood. I mean basically the math that I was trying to do that we effectively can be talking about almost a 40% growth if we look at these three 51:39 51 minutes, 39 seconds drivers is is how I'm seeing it. Um understood. Uh just one final question and more like a quick uh response. Um 51:47 51 minutes, 47 seconds there has obviously been chatter post that PTM payments bank license thing happening that PTM might go for a new license maybe an NBFC license as well. 51:56 51 minutes, 56 seconds Uh any comments any thoughts on that? 51:59 51 minutes, 59 seconds That's my last question. Thank you. We do have a comment on that and it is in our Q&A at the back of the earnings release. Um but just to summarize for 52:06 52 minutes, 6 seconds this audience um one is there are two broad thoughts on that. The short answer is we're not super excited about going 52:13 52 minutes, 13 seconds for an NBFC license and the rationale for that is broadly two things. One is we really like our model where we stick 52:22 52 minutes, 22 seconds to what we are uniquely uh good at which is distribution building great technology so that 52:30 52 minutes, 30 seconds customer uh merchants can convert better um insights on these merchants as well as collection abilities and our partners 52:39 52 minutes, 39 seconds then they are very very bluechip partners are very good at managing capital managing risk managing cyclicality and so on. So, we do think 52:47 52 minutes, 47 seconds this is a win-win partnership and PTM does try to be a win-win partner for um uh for for whoever we partner with 52:55 52 minutes, 55 seconds across the board and here obviously we're talking about lending. The second point is to your earlier question, we see the opportunity as absolutely 53:03 53 minutes, 3 seconds massive. We have very large payments market that market is growing. our market share is growing and that 53:11 53 minutes, 11 seconds combined with low penetration means that the opportunity in the short to medium-term already is very very large. 53:19 53 minutes, 19 seconds We do think that logically that loan book should sit on multiple balance 53:26 53 minutes, 26 seconds sheets not a single balance sheet not neither ours nor a single partners. Um so uh aggregating many many more balance 53:35 53 minutes, 35 seconds sheets we think helps us achieve our medium-term goals a lot better than trying to anchor it on one balance sheet. 53:44 53 minutes, 44 seconds Thanks thanks for that Madur and all the best. 53:47 53 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah I have Mr. Pashiral asking a question in the chat window and I'm answering till the time period whom are you getting? Uh so we have the last question from Al. 53:55 53 minutes, 55 seconds Alo you could unmute yourself and so on but I'm just answering what is written here that can you give color around asset quality and lending distribution 54:04 54 minutes, 4 seconds business and so on. Sir, we are absolutely not in the asset quality business because we do not own the risk 54:11 54 minutes, 11 seconds or the credit that is dispersed on any book. If ever our commitment is towards 54:19 54 minutes, 19 seconds FLG, it is completely the decision and ownership of the book that sits with lenders. So this question does not sit 54:26 54 minutes, 26 seconds with us. This is our role is it's like saying 54:40 54 minutes, 40 seconds so we are the retailers not the manufacturers if you will of this. And then second question you are asking sir is that what is the non MDR linked 54:49 54 minutes, 49 seconds payment instrument or GMBB. It's very easy. RBI has different different kind of datas. Our mix of MDR bearing instruments is growing. That is why net 54:57 54 minutes, 57 seconds payment margin is growing. And uh I think on question number three it is 55:05 55 minutes, 5 seconds the case that we have capex uh but next year we expect to be significantly higher than capex. So your observation 55:12 55 minutes, 12 seconds about last year is correct. Uh 500 crores of Ebida but we but we have capex. Um should I take SA's question as well? 55:20 55 minutes, 20 seconds Well yeah that's one uh SA um on the merchant side we have um three or four drivers of uh 55:28 55 minutes, 28 seconds monetization. One like you mentioned is subscription. The second is uh MDR on MDR bearing instruments. So if they're 55:36 55 minutes, 36 seconds accepting credit cards or credit card on UPI or PTM postpaid all of those are MDR bearing instruments and the third uh as 55:43 55 minutes, 43 seconds you pointed out is merchant blocks. Uh so those are the three big drivers of monetization. Um it is the case that not 55:52 55 minutes, 52 seconds every merchant may be paying us at least one of the three but vast vast majority of merchants do and at a cohort level 55:59 55 minutes, 59 seconds the payback period is always within acceptable bumps. Yeah, thank you for asking these questions in 56:07 56 minutes, 7 seconds the open chat as you know we can take those also and when we have Alo here. 56:11 56 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you Alok you may unmute your line please go ahead. 56:14 56 minutes, 14 seconds Sure. Yeah. Hi morning uh morning vija morning madur. Uh I just have one question uh if you could provide some color on affordability. So in your 56:23 56 minutes, 23 seconds earnings release you have mentioned that uh it has supported margin. uh so just in terms of whatever you are comfortable 56:30 56 minutes, 30 seconds sharing in terms of let's say GMV uh what percent of our machines have affordability enabled what is the 56:36 56 minutes, 36 seconds outlook here value proposition and so on thank you uh I think one thing I can say is more 56:43 56 minutes, 43 seconds than half of our machines are enabled and for dispersing EMIs I don't think 56:50 56 minutes, 50 seconds that we have GMV numbers by the instrument but you can be very sure this is um in enterprise segment, in longtail 56:58 56 minutes, 58 seconds segment both alike. It is liked because they want to make affordability as a feature for the customers on the shop and we continue to aggregate everybody 57:07 57 minutes, 7 seconds and aggregation as you know is our primary role here. So we continue to aggregate from as many people and we have very very strong 57:14 57 minutes, 14 seconds partnerships with both brands and banks uh who uh are the other piece of the ecosystem. So there's merchants and there's banks and brands and then 57:22 57 minutes, 22 seconds there's obvious obviously the consumer um and the fifth and rough greater than half number that Vijay gave for uh 57:30 57 minutes, 30 seconds enablement on card machines that is very significant because not 100% of merchants need uh EMI necessarily right 57:37 57 minutes, 37 seconds so it is limited to certain categories of merchants generally those who have uh higher ticket size uh transactions uh 57:45 57 minutes, 45 seconds and we're making huge progress in this we are gaining share uh because of focus on this business and obviously we have talked about the impact on processing margins. 57:57 57 minutes, 57 seconds Okay. And fair to say Madur that this will be largely in electronics the machine in terms of electronics is an anchor category but 58:05 58 minutes, 5 seconds there are many other categories healthcare is a category CDIT normal everything else beyond 58:12 58 minutes, 12 seconds electronics we furniture furniture fashion uh even beauty products subject 5,000 plus ticket size helps us 58:21 58 minutes, 21 seconds anywhere even something like quick commerce which you may not expect does actually have 58:28 58 minutes, 28 seconds some percentage uh EMI based based transaction. So I'm giving you the sort of contrasting example which might not be uh super obvious. It wasn't to me 58:36 58 minutes, 36 seconds until I saw the data of uh you know where sorry my volume coming from. Okay, got it. Thanks a lot. 58:45 58 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you. Thank you. I'll take question from Arjun Jane who said that any interest in building paid loyalty program on consumer merchant side for drive data locking. We have gold coin 58:53 58 minutes, 53 seconds based product my friend and it is not paid. It is for everybody who uses more PTM gets more gold coins. Use PTM for every P2P2P2M 59:02 59 minutes, 2 seconds payments or every other thing. And then Zinda Singh says congratulations on good side of numbers. Thank you sir. Eagerly waiting for agent abilities tools on PTM. Thank you. Same guest. 59:14 59 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you. With that we come to an end of this call. A replay of this earnings call and the transcript will be made available on the company website subsequently. Thank you all for joining. 59:24 59 minutes, 24 seconds You may now disconnect your lights. Thank you. Thank you. See you.