JTL Industries Ltd — Q4 FY26

JTL Industries Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqv3kY0rqnI Published: 2 days ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to JTL Industries Limited Q4 FY26 earnings conference call hosted by 0:10 10 seconds Antic Stock Broking. As a reminder, all participant links will be in the listenon mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions 0:17 17 seconds after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on 0:24 24 seconds your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Palav 0:31 31 seconds Agarwal from Antic Stock Broking. Thank you and over to you sir. 0:36 36 seconds Yeah, thank you. Uh good afternoon everyone and a warm welcome to GHL Industries fourth quarter and FI26 0:44 44 seconds earnings call. We have the senior management today with us represented by Mr. Pranav Singla the executive director, Mr. Dhu Singla the executive 0:53 53 seconds director and Mr. Navin Laoya the CFO. So I would now hand over the call to Mr. Navin Laura for his opening remarks. 1:01 1 minute, 1 second Over to you sir. 1:04 1 minute, 4 seconds Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining the earnings conference call of JTL industry limited to discuss the 1:11 1 minute, 11 seconds performance for Q4 and financial year 26. We appreciate your continued support and interest in our company. During 1:19 1 minute, 19 seconds financial year 26, the company continued to see healthy demand across infrastructure, construction and industrial applications. 1:28 1 minute, 28 seconds Better utilization across facilities, improving contribution from value added products and steady traction in export 1:35 1 minute, 35 seconds markets supported overall business performance during the year. Revenue from operations for financial year 26 1:43 1 minute, 43 seconds was rupees 2136 crores while Evita came in at rupees 166 kores. Profit after tax 1:50 1 minute, 50 seconds for the year was rupes 103 crores. The company reported its highest ever annual sales volumes of three lakh 95,900 1:59 1 minute, 59 seconds metric tonses during financial year 26 supported by higher throughput across facilities and improving contribution from value added products. 2:11 2 minutes, 11 seconds During Q4 financial year 26, business performance improved both on a year-on-year as well as sequential 2:19 2 minutes, 19 seconds basis. Revenue from operations for the quarter was rupees 693 crores reflecting growth of 47.5% 2:26 2 minutes, 26 seconds yearon year and 47.2% quarteron quarter. 2:32 2 minutes, 32 seconds A bita for the quarter was rupees 58 kores while profit after rank came in at rupees 38 kores. 2:41 2 minutes, 41 seconds The company also achieved its highest ever quarterly sales volume of 1 lakh 23,262 2:48 2 minutes, 48 seconds metric tons during Q4 financial year 26 improved utilization at the manga 2:55 2 minutes, 55 seconds facility better product mix and increasing contribution from DFT structural steel pipes supported overall 3:03 3 minutes, 3 seconds volume growth during the quarter operational ability per turn improved during Q4 financial year 26 driven by better 3:12 3 minutes, 12 seconds realizations and increasing share of value added products in the overall mix. 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds During the year, the company continued to focus on expanding its value added product portfolio and strengthening its presence across domestic and export 3:26 3 minutes, 26 seconds markets. Products such as DFT structural steel pipes continued to gain acceptance across infrastructure and structural 3:35 3 minutes, 35 seconds applications. Export business also recorded healthy traction during the year supported by wider market reach and 3:43 3 minutes, 43 seconds improving customer admissions across geographies. 3:46 3 minutes, 46 seconds The company continues to focus on improving operational efficiencies, increasing utilization across facilities and enhancing the contribution from 3:55 3 minutes, 55 seconds value added products. Demand from infrastructure, industrial and construction related segments continue to remain supportive and the company 4:04 4 minutes, 4 seconds remains focused on strengthening its market presence across these segments. 4:09 4 minutes, 9 seconds With this, I would now request the moderator to open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you everyone. 4:20 4 minutes, 20 seconds Thank you very much sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. 4:25 4 minutes, 25 seconds Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. 4:31 4 minutes, 31 seconds If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. 4:37 4 minutes, 37 seconds Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. 4:41 4 minutes, 41 seconds Ladies and gentlemen will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. 4:52 4 minutes, 52 seconds First question is from the line of Duves Kanaka from Antique Stock Broking. Please proceed. 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds Uh good afternoon J. Uh congratulations on a good set of numbers. Uh would you mind sharing what was the share of value 5:06 5 minutes, 6 seconds added products during 4Q in the sales? Hello. 5:14 5 minutes, 14 seconds Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? 5:18 5 minutes, 18 seconds Yes. Can I can you please read the question? Uh I wanted to ask uh what was the share of value added products in your sales mix for 4Q? 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds It was around 27% total valued products for Q4. 5:35 5 minutes, 35 seconds Uh and what was the uh contribution to the sales volume from the Manga facility? 5:42 5 minutes, 42 seconds The major addition in the sales volume has happened for the manga facility itself. We have been impaned in most of the places for a DFT products and the 5:51 5 minutes, 51 seconds major increase of sales or in fact the majority sales has happened from the manga facility itself. 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds The new addition from uh our usual run rate was around 90,000 tons to a lak tons. The entire addition of 20 to 6:05 6 minutes, 5 seconds 25,000 tons is from the man facility itself. 6:10 6 minutes, 10 seconds Okay. So you said that it's about 20,000 tons run rate uh perming per per month. Is that correct? 6:18 6 minutes, 18 seconds No. In a quarter's time, we our average run was a lakh t a quarter going in this quarter as we've delivered as as we 6:25 6 minutes, 25 seconds delivered 1.25 lakh tons the additional 25,000 tons has been being delivered from the manga facility itself. 6:33 6 minutes, 33 seconds Okay. 6:35 6 minutes, 35 seconds Uh so we can uh what would be the run rate uh going forward? Is this expected to scale up further? 6:44 6 minutes, 44 seconds Yes, we are adding the sizing capacity in a manga uh plant. We are adding cold loading complex in which we'll be entering into valuable products such as 6:52 6 minutes, 52 seconds colorcoded um pipes and uh GT pipes and the total capacity outlay uh for that is 7 lakh 7:01 7 minutes, 1 second tons. So we can see a increase in sales happening from the entire like whatever increase in sales will be happening will be happening 7:09 7 minutes, 9 seconds through manga itself. There is no other edition happening in any other facility. 7:13 7 minutes, 13 seconds The total edition capex is planned at Maharashtra itself. 7:18 7 minutes, 18 seconds Okay. Uh would you mind giving any guidance for uh FY27 volume? 7:25 7 minutes, 25 seconds Um given the standard that we are on and we and how we adding capacities it's safe to say that we'll be able to deliver about 30% volume growth YI. 7:36 7 minutes, 36 seconds I'm sorry I could not catch that quickly. 30 30% volume growth. quite a while. 7:43 7 minutes, 43 seconds Okay. 7:45 7 minutes, 45 seconds All right. Uh, thank you. I'll get back in the queue. Thank you. 7:53 7 minutes, 53 seconds Next question is from the line of SNHA from Noama. Please proceed. 8:02 8 minutes, 2 seconds Uh, hi team. Uh, thanks a lot for the opportunity. Just couple of questions from my end. How is the demand currently on ground? If all you could take us 8:10 8 minutes, 10 seconds through that and is the channel actually in restocking or detocking mode, could you actually speak about that? 8:20 8 minutes, 20 seconds I Yeah. Uh hi. 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds Um yeah, the market is uh on a good track at the moment. U there has been uh a lot of uh correction after the beauty 8:31 8 minutes, 31 seconds was uh introduced in the month of November and so uh the prices have gone up uh and uh there has been since then a 8:41 8 minutes, 41 seconds lot of stocking u due to the recent elections and everything uh in the two three states there there was a little 8:48 8 minutes, 48 seconds bit of a slowdown in the first week but uh as of uh today we we see that there is a good pick up from the market and We 8:56 8 minutes, 56 seconds are we are uh in a good mood uh to say that uh the market will remain uh good in the coming uh quarter in this 9:04 9 minutes, 4 seconds quarter. Uh so there shall be no problem in the pickup of material. 9:12 9 minutes, 12 seconds Understood. Um and secondly what is the utilization of our manga facility at this point of time? 9:19 9 minutes, 19 seconds We are about 35% 40% range at our manga facility. uh as we are as I mentioned earlier as well in the concourse that we 9:28 9 minutes, 28 seconds are getting panel most of the places and the biggest capacity uh the bigger capacity in the mangro facility is the DFT pipes and it's an ongoing process in 9:36 9 minutes, 36 seconds which we are getting onboarded most the places so recently you must have seen as well we have gotten a ACRS certification 9:43 9 minutes, 43 seconds which is a certification to supply pipes to Australia and we are one of the only companies in fact the only company in India and pipe segment to get the 9:51 9 minutes, 51 seconds certifications and recently we have explored our options to USA as well and even Canada as well. So given all these 10:00 10 minutes uh situations in which we are adding capacities and getting certifications in a timely manner. So we very confident 10:06 10 minutes, 6 seconds that our DFT only will be scaled up um in a much higher way and that will result to a total utilization levels of 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds about 60% to 70% for this year itself at a man facility. 10:20 10 minutes, 20 seconds Wow. And majority of it would be led by the domestic or exports or could you actually give us the aim for the man 10:28 10 minutes, 28 seconds facility that exports and domestic would look like how much percentage? 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds So SNA it's easier to say that u our total export guidance or export target for the company is to reach export 10:40 10 minutes, 40 seconds contribution of 15%. Right now we have uh reached a sales export sales volume um percentage of 10% on a higher volume 10:49 10 minutes, 49 seconds growth. So given that we will be delivering higher volumes as a company as a whole in the coming years we wish to aim a 15% export orientation. 11:01 11 minutes, 1 second Understood and when you give volume guidance of 30% what would be your product guidance for next year? 11:08 11 minutes, 8 seconds So for this whole year we have done 3,900 rupees a bit per ton. Um as we are introducing value products uh in 11:17 11 minutes, 17 seconds Maharashtra in our expansion uh it's very hard to say right now what the exact a beta per ton would be but uh 11:24 11 minutes, 24 seconds given the circumstances and the market of steel will be in the same in similar situation we'll be able to uh deliver a 11:31 11 minutes, 31 seconds 10 to 15% a beta per ton growth as well understood understood and uh lastly 11:38 11 minutes, 38 seconds could you also give us you know what's happening with GTL difference how the performance moving how are the approvals looking like on that particular business. 11:48 11 minutes, 48 seconds So JTL defense uh company is into manufacturing of copper brass and phosphorus bronze alloy. We got the 11:56 11 minutes, 56 seconds plant in December under the JTL umbrella and earlier it was known as RC Industries and now it is JTL defense and 12:04 12 minutes, 4 seconds given in um the first quarter that we the Q4 was the first quarter with the new management and in the quarter itself 12:13 12 minutes, 13 seconds uh it we did a small top line of 15 crores because the plant is in overhaul stage and a lot of minor cakes has been 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds done over there as well but still we were able to deliver a 20% a beta margin on that and it was profitable. So going 12:30 12 minutes, 30 seconds ahead uh uh on on in the Q4 quarter we were close to 100 metric tons of 12:36 12 minutes, 36 seconds production in that uh at JTL defense going ahead we are already at 150 metric tonses of run rate of per month and by 12:45 12 minutes, 45 seconds exit quarter of this year we should be at a run rate of 500 metric tons a month. uh the total capacity over there 12:52 12 minutes, 52 seconds is to deliver up to 700 to 800 metric tons a month which we shall be achieving in um the uh Wi-Fi 29. 13:04 13 minutes, 4 seconds Understood. Thank thanks a lot team and all the list. Thank you. Thank you. 13:12 13 minutes, 12 seconds Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants to ask a question you may press star and one. 13:18 13 minutes, 18 seconds Next question is from the line of Pratik Shivasawa from Nvesh Wisdom. Please go ahead. 13:25 13 minutes, 25 seconds Uh yeah, thank you sir for giving the opportunity sir. My question is uh along the lines again on our value added mix. 13:34 13 minutes, 34 seconds We have we are seeing a very strong abida per growth right almost doubled y but if you're saying that we have a very 13:42 13 minutes, 42 seconds strong increasing uh uh you know this the value added product mix as well shouldn't that also translate to revenue 13:48 13 minutes, 48 seconds per mix which is like flat y no uh I'm sure you have seen the strong 13:56 13 minutes, 56 seconds aida peron growth y um at actually it's the average pattern that the company has been doing in the 14:05 14 minutes, 5 seconds past as well. It was just that Q4 last year was extraordinarily weak quarter because of the already lean steel. So the increase might be seeming 14:13 14 minutes, 13 seconds a lot. If you look at the numbers quarter on quarter, we are in a steady state situation and the beta per ton is around similar levels uh 100 150 rupees 14:22 14 minutes, 22 seconds higher than the last quarter and the revenue per ton is very much dependent on the HRC cost. So the HSC cost u has 14:32 14 minutes, 32 seconds been rising and that's why our revenue per ton has increased as well in that way and the the realization has been increased as well. going ahead as the 14:40 14 minutes, 40 seconds product mix will change towards color coded that's when you will see a higher uh uh revenue revenue for done as well 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds because those products are super valued items and uh right now we are selling DFT pipes galvanics types and black 14:56 14 minutes, 56 seconds types and they are the same products that we have been doing since past as well DFT doesn't have a very different 15:03 15 minutes, 3 seconds revenue from different from black types so the colored items has a different kind of revenue per ton. 15:11 15 minutes, 11 seconds So the increase in revenue per ton will be seen in the future. 15:15 15 minutes, 15 seconds And when you say future like from which quarter sorry uh when you say uh colorcoded we are 15:24 15 minutes, 24 seconds going to see it in future more of that uh you know uh in the product mix. From which quarter are we uh saying when when 15:33 15 minutes, 33 seconds are we um we are almost towards the closing stage of our capeex at a man facility by end 15:40 15 minutes, 40 seconds of H1 we should be a full running facility of a full uh new capex okay and what are like the utilization 15:49 15 minutes, 49 seconds guidelines on uh this facility sir so as I mentioned that this year we've 15:55 15 minutes, 55 seconds done 3.95 lakh tons of sales and uh it's safe to say that we'll be able to deliver 30% growth Y for our sales 16:04 16 minutes, 4 seconds volume given accounted for the new capacity as well because the new capacity comes in it takes some time to set up as well to get it running as 16:12 16 minutes, 12 seconds well. So it's a safe to say 30% is the easy target. 16:18 16 minutes, 18 seconds Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 16:24 16 minutes, 24 seconds Next question is from the line of Dil Javiri from Crown Capital. Please go ahead. 16:32 16 minutes, 32 seconds Hello. Uh good afternoon sir. Thank you so much for taking my question. Firstly, congratulations on a great result sir. 16:38 16 minutes, 38 seconds Hopefully I'm Yes, please proceed. 16:42 16 minutes, 42 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So sir, I just wanted to you know ask in like in our business what's the seasonality like between H1 and H2 floor? 16:54 16 minutes, 54 seconds Yeah. Hi. Uh yeah, seasonality is there because of majorly monsoons hitting uh the entirety of India and uh H uh one is 17:04 17 minutes, 4 seconds basically uh the H1 and H this yeah H1 is uh when uh the new financial year 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds gears up uh due to newer u uh projects 17:19 17 minutes, 19 seconds being uh announced and everything. So that takes a little bit of time. So H1 is generally a little slower uh and H2 17:28 17 minutes, 28 seconds is a little faster than H1. But u due to whatever is going around with the uh uh 17:36 17 minutes, 36 seconds peaking of things with the international and the local uh scenario uh these seasonalities have uh not played uh 17:45 17 minutes, 45 seconds their essential core role in the last few years. So uh at this year we feel 17:52 17 minutes, 52 seconds that uh u there is a good demand in the first quarter then the second quarter would specifically be uh guided by by the monsoons thereof. 18:04 18 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah and uh then yeah so uh but however the export market keeps on going on so uh all in all it should be a good call. 18:16 18 minutes, 16 seconds Okay fair fair enough sir. So just uh why I wanted to ask this question was I think in Q4 we've done around 1.25 lakhs 18:23 18 minutes, 23 seconds per ton right and so if I annualize that that itself will give us you know more than five lakh tons of sales and we are 18:30 18 minutes, 30 seconds guiding for 30% but even if Q4 run rate we maintain we're going to be more than 25%. So with you know manga also you 18:38 18 minutes, 38 seconds know increasing its stake uh we should be you know having a higher you know sales uh is that a fair way to look at 18:46 18 minutes, 46 seconds it sir definitely our internal target of the company should deliver the best possible numbers and get the capacity that we 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds already mentioned as soon as possible but there are multiple factors and it's a different kind of capacity that we adding so one two months one two weeks 19:04 19 minutes, 4 seconds delay a month delay is very unforeseen and given how the situation is all around the world right now uh how things 19:12 19 minutes, 12 seconds are happening the geopolitical situations are rolling out so it's just very difficult to say an exact number or 19:20 19 minutes, 20 seconds an exact growth u target as well 30% is something that we'll definitely achieve whatever over and beyond we uh after the 19:28 19 minutes, 28 seconds capacity comes on as per the timeline we'll definitely come and revise the uh target as well for this Yeah. Okay. 19:36 19 minutes, 36 seconds 30% is something that we can easily do with the current capacity itself. Our new capacity whatever comes on the timeline basis we'll come and upgrade the uh future outlook as well. 19:47 19 minutes, 47 seconds Okay. Okay. Fair fair enough. So that that uh that helps a lot. So and so uh with JTL difference I'm sorry I couldn't catch the figures correctly. So right 19:55 19 minutes, 55 seconds now we are around at I think uh 100 tons a month right. So so and we want to scale it up at the exit 100 to 500. 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds Right. So in terms of revenue where we are at like sir could you just help me out with that sir? 20:09 20 minutes, 9 seconds So uh 100 tons equates to 10 crores of revenue and uh given that the model in this business is a lot of it's a mix of 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds job work and outright sales. So 100 tons is something that we produce right now in the company that dispatches 100 in a 20:24 20 minutes, 24 seconds quart in a month's time. Uh so the tonnage and the revenue is not the correct way to like will not be 20:33 20 minutes, 33 seconds reflecting the same way but uh as per uh the guidance will scale up the mixture 20:40 20 minutes, 40 seconds of job work and uh outright sales to 500 tons by exit quarter. 20:46 20 minutes, 46 seconds Okay. So just like to know overall like I don't want the exact figure. So what is the rough contribution we can expect from defense in current year sir like 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds even a rough figure would be uh fine sir so for this full year we should be targeting close to 150 to 200 crores of 21:03 21 minutes, 3 seconds topline in the company and uh going ahead uh as as I mentioned at 50 500 metric tons 21:12 21 minutes, 12 seconds a month so close to 6,000 metric tons and if you do uh the peak potential we previously the company has previous done 21:20 21 minutes, 20 seconds in the past before getting into NCT is 1,500 crores. So that's the opportunity that we have in the company as well. So 21:26 21 minutes, 26 seconds by FI29 we'll also target that we get as close as possible to the revenue for the company. But uh as per the production 21:35 21 minutes, 35 seconds numbers um it's it's easier to for me to say that 500 metric tons is something that we are focusing on the short term and going ahead as how we unfold the capacity we'll see. 21:46 21 minutes, 46 seconds Oh okay. And this is 20% margin business right sir given that how the copper increased uh 21:54 21 minutes, 54 seconds in the recent past we were able to give a 20% a beta margin in this quarter going ahead on a bigger capac on a 22:02 22 minutes, 2 seconds bigger utilization level we'll be able to give a 20% a beta margin as well but this 20% margin of this quarter was not 22:08 22 minutes, 8 seconds a fair number from my side so it's a lot of inventory gains in this quarter which happened as well because the capacity 22:15 22 minutes, 15 seconds just started and this quarter And uh um in future we definitely will be seeing these kind of numbers but uh given in 22:24 22 minutes, 24 seconds this quarter or next quarter if the copper prices are stable we'll be able to deliver close to 10 to 10 to 15% of the beta margins. 22:32 22 minutes, 32 seconds Oh okay okay. Uh fair fair enough sir. 22:34 22 minutes, 34 seconds And just the last question from sorry to interrupt Mr. Jav. Yeah. Thank you sir. 22:42 22 minutes, 42 seconds Next question is from the line of Deep Wagela from Cred and Asset Management. Please go ahead. 22:49 22 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes, please proceed. Yes, it is. 22:54 22 minutes, 54 seconds Okay. So, I just wanted to understand that the volume in Q were really strong but the margins were still under pressure. So, what is the normalized bit of pattern that you expect that we can expect going forward? 23:07 23 minutes, 7 seconds uh we were able to deliver higher beta than in Q4 and given going ahead as well. So as we mentioned that for the 23:14 23 minutes, 14 seconds full year we have g given a beta per 3,900. Uh going ahead we should be the the targeting 5,000 beta per ton but 23:23 23 minutes, 23 seconds it's safe to say that 10 to 15% beta per ton growth will definitely come this financial year. 23:29 23 minutes, 29 seconds Okay. So from 4, 3,900 levels, we should be touching some somewhere up to 4,500 to 4,800 rupees for this financial year 23:38 23 minutes, 38 seconds and as and when the new capacity unfolds for the CRM for the colorcoded and gal volume. So that time we'll be able to 23:47 23 minutes, 47 seconds we'll be in a better situation to position to give you how the beta pattern is rolling out for the future outlook. 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds Okay, understood. And and since the volume is really good but the profit is still lagging. So like is there any steel price pressure import steel price pressure in Q1 as well? Q1 F27. 24:07 24 minutes, 7 seconds No this is no steel there is no pressure from that segment but uh it's just that as we are rolling out new products as well in the market DST is a new product. 24:16 24 minutes, 16 seconds So some somewhere we have to put some some places we have to give discounts as well to push the product. So the company will be delivering all kind of uh all 24:25 24 minutes, 25 seconds times of uh revenues and all-time highs AIAS as a whole for the full year and as I mentioned for the full year itself 24:32 24 minutes, 32 seconds we'll give a beat up and perm growth but given that how we are placing ourselves expanding a [clears throat] capacity 24:39 24 minutes, 39 seconds every quarter u it's very tough to maintain a guidance to say that this will be a profit this will be a beta per 24:47 24 minutes, 47 seconds year we are definitely sure about giving a giving a higher beta per turn. 24:54 24 minutes, 54 seconds Okay, understood. And uh in terms of Q4 volume growth, I just want to understand that how much growth growth came came from the capacity ramp up and then from 25:02 25 minutes, 2 seconds market share gain and from channel inventory filling. So if you can just give a breakup of that there was no inventory gain as such but 25:10 25 minutes, 10 seconds uh the utilization levels and mangovity picked up and as I mentioned the DFT products were being pushed aggressively in the market. So these were the reasons 25:19 25 minutes, 19 seconds that you could see the massive sales increase in uh volumes throughout and this was even in the export market as 25:26 25 minutes, 26 seconds well because our exports had increased because of DFT products. So all in all it was a DFT play uh DFT play which is happening. 25:37 25 minutes, 37 seconds And I can see that the export contribution in Q4 has uh you know crossed 10%. Like I just wanted to understand like what are what is the 25:44 25 minutes, 44 seconds margin difference in export and domestic after considering the freight cost like are export margins superior than the domestic margins. 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds Yeah. U so it's we can't really quantify the difference or as a thumb rule uh depends upon how the pricing in the Indian market and the market abroad is. 26:06 26 minutes, 6 seconds So as of today the Indian market for HR coils and pipe is more expensive than the export market. So we have to work on 26:13 26 minutes, 13 seconds the basis of uh imports. So uh all in all uh and uh majority of our export 26:21 26 minutes, 21 seconds market is value added product. We are we are sending about majority of it is galvanized and now uh in addition to 26:29 26 minutes, 29 seconds that is GFT. So all of it is value of the product. So therein the uh general 26:37 26 minutes, 37 seconds uh levels of a beta is about 6,000 to 8,000 rupees depending upon galiz thickness ranges size range etc. So that 26:46 26 minutes, 46 seconds is what it is it is uh there is no uh gain of higher margin in the sport 26:53 26 minutes, 53 seconds market but yes there is a gain of higher volumes wherein we get a singular size of higher volume that we are not able to 27:01 27 minutes, 1 second get in the local market. that uh entails for a economies of scale. Yes. 27:09 27 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. Next. And just one last thing. So like I just want if you can provide um guidance of FI2 for the following like 27:16 27 minutes, 16 seconds volume growth, a beta port utilization and ROC if you can provide. 27:22 27 minutes, 22 seconds So as we mentioned that there would be a 30% increase in volumes year on year and in Aita per ton we can expect a 10 to 15% growth in a VA per ton. 27:34 27 minutes, 34 seconds So utilization level so utilization levels going ahead as DFT 27:41 27 minutes, 41 seconds is being impanled and a CRM so our very big capacity is coming on board by end of H1 so it will be very tough for us to 27:50 27 minutes, 50 seconds give the exact utilization levels right now um coming ahead in next quarter we'll definitely come and give the utilization levels guidance as of as we 27:59 27 minutes, 59 seconds ask every month there is something new starting. So uh with that the utilization of that particular product is a little lower than the rest of it. 28:10 28 minutes, 10 seconds So to give you a number on that utilization is not what we can do at the moment. So uh that is where we coming 28:17 28 minutes, 17 seconds from. So in the next year from a 1 million t of capacity we will be uh pushing ourselves to a 2 million tons of 28:25 28 minutes, 25 seconds capacity with the newer expansions. So right now uh me able to give you a uh 28:32 28 minutes, 32 seconds utilization level is not what I can do at the moment. 28:38 28 minutes, 38 seconds How about the ROC that you expect the ROC and ROC? We should be driven close to 25 30% ROC's for the next years 28:48 28 minutes, 48 seconds given that a lot of our assets are not spreading and a lot of capable is happening a lot of sets are in CWIP as 28:54 28 minutes, 54 seconds well. So as and when the sets will be capitalized and we started to uh do 29:01 29 minutes, 1 second production on those number production on those uh capacities we should be seeing ROC's coming back to traditional level 29:09 29 minutes, 9 seconds the 25 20% levels which the company has been delivering in past it was only because of the heavy capex cycle that we've gone the past one and a half two 29:16 29 minutes, 16 seconds years that the ROC's and ROC are fell down so as soon as the capeex is complete we should be seeing the bounce back in ROC and ROC's. 29:27 29 minutes, 27 seconds Okay, understood. So that's it from my side. Thank you so much. Right. Thank you. 29:34 29 minutes, 34 seconds Next question is from the line of Lokesh Kashika from Smith Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. 29:44 29 minutes, 44 seconds Yeah. Hi sir. Uh congratulations on the good set of numbers. Uh most of the questions have been answered. Just uh just wanted to check on the capex front. 29:53 29 minutes, 53 seconds So we were earlier targeting 22.5 lakh tons of exit capacity by 27. So just 30:00 30 minutes rechecking is the that guidance pretty much intact. 30:06 30 minutes, 6 seconds Uh hi your voice is muffing in between but uh from what I've got that to reach a capacity of 2 million times by F27. 30:15 30 minutes, 15 seconds Yes, that's the intact target that is still intact. 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds And what would the capex that would be incurring for this you know to reach this capacity and I believe that would 30:27 30 minutes, 27 seconds be by 27 end only. So what is the capex number you are looking for? So majority 30:34 30 minutes, 34 seconds cex has been done u for the 2 capacity but there's only some bit of cex left for h1 which is close to 60 70 crores. 30:44 30 minutes, 44 seconds So we'll be doing this kind of capeex in H1 and then going ahead there will be some intended capex of 30 crores to 40 crores for H2. So the total plan for 30:53 30 minutes, 53 seconds capex is close to 100 crores and 120 crores for this full financial year. 30:59 30 minutes, 59 seconds Not not and sir just wanted to check uh we have reported around 4,700 of aida per in quarter 4. So what would 31:08 31 minutes, 8 seconds be the broadly inventory carrying per during the quarter? 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds Sorry. What would be the what is inventory carrying gains in you know in let's say 100 200 rupees what would that 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds number would be for quarter there is no kind of there is no kind of inventory gain that is there in the quarter the whatever products have been 31:27 31 minutes, 27 seconds sold they get realized otherwise there is no inventory that changes as such so there is no absolute inventory gain in 31:34 31 minutes, 34 seconds this quarter we didn't keep Okay. Okay. 31:44 31 minutes, 44 seconds Thank you. 31:47 31 minutes, 47 seconds Next question is from the line of Shadita, an individual investor. Please go ahead. 31:56 31 minutes, 56 seconds The line for the correct questioner got disconnected. We'll move to the next question from the line of Aryan Batia from Invite Research. Please go ahead. 32:07 32 minutes, 7 seconds Thanks. price of the opportunity. Your voice is very low. 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds Okay. Hello. I'm It's still the same. Please go ahead with your question. 32:19 32 minutes, 19 seconds Okay. My question is regarding the volume. So, we have guided around 30% volume this year. But in the previous order, if I looked at we were guiding 32:27 32 minutes, 27 seconds for at six lakhs in FI27 and 9 lakhs in FI28. But if I take the 30% volume growth, it comes to around 5 lakh 20. I 32:36 32 minutes, 36 seconds just wanted to know what is the reason behind it. Have we downgraded the guidance from six lakhs to if we take 30% it comes to around five lakh that is 32:45 32 minutes, 45 seconds my first uh thanks for your question. So given how the capacity that we uh was supposed 32:53 32 minutes, 53 seconds to start earlier that there has been a delay in the capeex the capeex that we're doing for the colored complex is a very huge capex and one of a kind. So, 33:02 33 minutes, 2 seconds so there was some delay in the capeex because of um brains as well and a lot of multiple factors. 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds So, as the capex is delayed the outlook is delayed as well. But as as I mentioned again that as soon as the capacity starts given on the current capacity itself I'm giving a 30% growth. 33:21 33 minutes, 21 seconds So as soon as the capacity starts we'll come in and grade the guidance as well. 33:25 33 minutes, 25 seconds So by by next quarter's end so we'll have a fair picture on how the capacity has started and how it's playing out in 33:32 33 minutes, 32 seconds the market and uh we might be in a situation that we deliver what we have mentioned before as well. 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds Okay. And so my second question is regarding on JT so you are writing for 10 to 15% margin but if you look at 33:50 33 minutes, 50 seconds other players especially copper converters or copper all other players they are basically able to get around 6 to 8% margin. So what is the rational 33:58 33 minutes, 58 seconds like why are we able to do such high margin and copper products. 34:05 34 minutes, 5 seconds Um I'm not sure about the companies that you mentioned are in the same kind of products that we make. We are in a fully backward integration process at digital 34:12 34 minutes, 12 seconds defense in which we are from the first step of procuring copper and ring to the last step of making a bullet shell. We 34:19 34 minutes, 19 seconds are into various processes to make ultra thin foil foils in the market as well and there are limited players in the market and in fact I don't know any 34:28 34 minutes, 28 seconds limit listed player who is there in the market as well in the same business. So I think it's it's a different business model that you're mentioning about but 34:35 34 minutes, 35 seconds in our kind of business as I mentioned 20% is not a fair uh beta or margin for now but going ahead will be so u but the 34:44 34 minutes, 44 seconds current situation as well 10 to 15% is we can easily uh target for the coming quarters for this for the financial year. 34:55 34 minutes, 55 seconds Got it. Got it. And my last question is on our operating cash flow. So when do we expect you know to turn positive operating cash flow because for the last 35:02 35 minutes, 2 seconds two to three years we have been posting negative cash flow and if I look at the debt as well this year has increased. So just wanted to know when can we expect positive operating cash flow coming in. 35:14 35 minutes, 14 seconds So as a lot of the we the full cash flow is kind of linked to the capeex cycle that we have incurred. It's a heavy cap 35:22 35 minutes, 22 seconds cycle that we've done. So as we are inching towards the finishing stages of a capeex um by probably next financial 35:30 35 minutes, 30 seconds year we should be having a positive cash flow. 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds Okay. Got it. Thank you. And thank you 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds ladies and gentlemen. To ask a question, you may press star and one. 35:53 35 minutes, 53 seconds Participant, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. 36:06 36 minutes, 6 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you may press star and one. 36:12 36 minutes, 12 seconds As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. 36:21 36 minutes, 21 seconds Uh thank you everyone for joining our earnings call. I hope we were able to give you the answers to your queries. If you have any other further questions or 36:29 36 minutes, 29 seconds would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our investor relations team. Thank you everybody for joining the crowds. Thank you. 36:36 36 minutes, 36 seconds Thank you so much sir. On behalf of Antic Stock Broking, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.