Irm Energy Ltd — Q4 FY26

Irm Energy Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5J3XG56Us Published: 2 days ago

0:02 2 seconds Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I am Akash moderator for the conference call. Welcome to IRM Energy Limited Q4 0:09 9 seconds FYI 26 and FI26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participants will be in listen only mode and there'll 0:17 17 seconds be an opportunity for you to ask a question after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please 0:25 25 seconds signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone telephone. 0:30 30 seconds Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Miss Krishna Patel from EY. Thank you and over to you ma'am. 0:38 38 seconds Thank you Akash and good afternoon everyone. Welcome you all to IRM Energy Limited's Q4 FI26 and FI26 earnings 0:46 46 seconds conference call to take us through the results to answer your questions. We have with us the management of IRM energy represented by Mr. Enk Sharma the 0:55 55 seconds chief executive officer Mr. Arun Kumar Saluru chief financial officer Mr. 1:00 1 minute Ashish Mittal the head of commercial and marketing and Mr. Abhin Panda chief corporate strategy and IR head please note that the discussion that we may 1:07 1 minute, 7 seconds have today may contain certain forward-looking statements relating to future events and future performance numerous factors could cause actual 1:15 1 minute, 15 seconds results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statement. Please note the audio of the earnings call is the copyright material of IRM energy and 1:23 1 minute, 23 seconds cannot be copied, rebroadcasted, attributed in press or media without specific written consent of the company. 1:30 1 minute, 30 seconds Now I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Enk Sharma the CEO for his opening comment. Thank you and over to you sir. 1:36 1 minute, 36 seconds Thank you very much Krishna for the introduction. Uh good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining uh Q4 FY26 and 1:45 1 minute, 45 seconds FY26 complete year earning conference call of IRM energy limited. Uh I'm privileged to 1:54 1 minute, 54 seconds talk to you straight after the um earnings have been completed. The company concluded its board meeting last 2:01 2 minutes, 1 second evening only and the financial results along with the investor presentation has been uploaded on the stock exchanges and 2:09 2 minutes, 9 seconds on our corporate website also. We trust you have had the opportunity to review the same. 2:17 2 minutes, 17 seconds FY26 has been a year of disciplined execution, broad-based operational expansion and a resilient financial 2:25 2 minutes, 25 seconds performance for IRM energy. as one of the India's fastest growing city distribution city gas distribution 2:32 2 minutes, 32 seconds company uh with authorized presence across four geographical areas and six districts IRM continues to strengthen 2:40 2 minutes, 40 seconds its position as a reliable efficient and future ready natural gas supplier supporting industrial commercial domestic and automo customers. 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds Our performance during the year reflects our commitment to operational excellence, strong network rollout and the essential 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second role natural gas has to play as a transition fuel in India's evolving energy landscape. 3:09 3 minutes, 9 seconds Our performance during FY26 demonstrates consistent volume growth, network 3:15 3 minutes, 15 seconds expansion, and improving profitability supported by strategic investments in infrastructure, disciplined capital 3:24 3 minutes, 24 seconds allocation, and strengthening customer adoption across PNG and CNG segments. 3:30 3 minutes, 30 seconds During FI26, the company delivered an revenue from operations of rupees 1066.66 3:40 3 minutes, 40 seconds crores to be precise and registered a growth of 9% yearonear. 3:46 3 minutes, 46 seconds Evita level of 112.25 cr reflecting a 17% yearon-year increase. 3:55 3 minutes, 55 seconds PAT of 56.89 89 a growth of 21% yearonear on a standalone basis. 4:03 4 minutes, 3 seconds The volume of 223.67 mm reflects a growth of 9% yearonear 4:10 4 minutes, 10 seconds supported by both CNG and PNG commercial domestic segments together. 4:16 4 minutes, 16 seconds company has also incurred during the year a capex of 81.33 cr in Q4 FI26 4:24 4 minutes, 24 seconds alone which adds up to the annual capex total of 184.35 cr in the whole FI26 4:33 4 minutes, 33 seconds additionally energy expanded the CNG station network which for which we are really proud of a network of 150 4:42 4 minutes, 42 seconds stations landmark we have crossed this time as a as of 31st March 26. Last 4:50 4 minutes, 50 seconds year the same figure comparable figure was 111 stations up to FI25. This represents a massive 26% year-on-year 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds growth in the CG segment strengthening our distribution reach enabling 5:06 5 minutes, 6 seconds sustained growth in CG volumes. CNG remains the largest contributor to the volume accounting for 61% of total operational revenue in FY26. 5:18 5 minutes, 18 seconds This segment in fact continues to benefit from expanding station infrastructure, 5:27 5 minutes, 27 seconds higher veil conversions and deeper penetration of gasbased mobility across 5:33 5 minutes, 33 seconds our operating GS. On the PNG front, the company continued its robust progress 5:42 5 minutes, 42 seconds in customer edition with 83,262 domestic PNG connections, 496 commercial 5:49 5 minutes, 49 seconds connections and 223 industrial connections across its operating 4G which is supported by extensive pipeline 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds network of 6,695 in kilometer as of 2526. 6:06 6 minutes, 6 seconds PNG domestic is driven by increasing household adoption and enhanced awareness and also supported by the PNG RB's national campaign. 6:17 6 minutes, 17 seconds PNG commercial is supported by strong addition in the food services, retail 6:24 6 minutes, 24 seconds and institutional segments. As far as PNG industrial is concerned, there is a 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds steady traction in Banaskcata GA and 13% growth year on year and a moderated 6:38 6 minutes, 38 seconds growth in Fate Sab in FI25, FI26. 6:44 6 minutes, 44 seconds The company remains committed to driving long-term value creation supported by debt light balance sheet and also 6:54 6 minutes, 54 seconds with total debt including long-term lease liability of only 72 cr rupees in FI26 7:03 7 minutes, 3 seconds reduced from 140 cr rupes in FI25 operational efficiency and clear road 7:11 7 minutes, 11 seconds map for expansion across our authorized geographic ical areas with cash and bank balance of 242 cr rupes in hands 7:20 7 minutes, 20 seconds resulting into a net net cash position of 170 cr rupes. This enables the company to fund expensions largely 7:26 7 minutes, 26 seconds through internal acrals thereby limiting our financial costs and ensuring long-term sustainability of our returns. 7:34 7 minutes, 34 seconds IRM energy the authorized GA provide multi- decadal growth runway which with 7:43 7 minutes, 43 seconds a significant potential for further PNG and CG penetration in those areas driven by 7:52 7 minutes, 52 seconds supportive policy framework rising fuel substitution trends and increased preference for cleaner energy solutions. 8:00 8 minutes Certain new initiative which we have undertaken during the last quarter are I would like to one by one 8:08 8 minutes, 8 seconds mention all of them from the institutional partnership standpoint we have signed an MOU with Tamil Nadu state 8:15 8 minutes, 15 seconds transport corporation in Namakal for deploying PNG buses with 71 buses currently 8:23 8 minutes, 23 seconds continuing 50 additional buses are expected in the May 26th this time and uh total Current consumption stands 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds approximately 6,000 kilo per day attributing to 17% of the total CNG volume in the namakalan GA. 8:41 8 minutes, 41 seconds This conversion we have encouraged the TNSTC and this has happened according to our plans commission uh the first LNG 8:50 8 minutes, 50 seconds distancing facility in Rasipuram in the same Namakal and PRGA agreement was signed with ultra gas trading company 8:58 8 minutes, 58 seconds and we are also lining up other transporter hubs uh transport transporting company in the hub and LG 9:06 9 minutes, 6 seconds fueling is increasing almost every month uh signed an MOU with the red taxi 9:14 9 minutes, 14 seconds in Trishi for the conversion of fleet vehicles to CNG resulting into successful conversion of over 120 taxis by now. 9:26 9 minutes, 26 seconds We have also signed an MOU with grassim industries in DGSGA and district jail 9:34 9 minutes, 34 seconds in BKGA for PNG supply for residential colonies. This way we are expanding our footprints into the domestic area and 9:43 9 minutes, 43 seconds the commercial areas also massively in all the potential gas. Signing a tripartite agreement between IRM energy, 9:53 9 minutes, 53 seconds Gale and CBG producers across all the four gas under the CBG CGD 10:00 10 minutes synchronization scheme of Gale government of India for the uptake of compressed biogas CBG. This adds up a 10:08 10 minutes, 8 seconds lot of value in our gas sourcing portfolio. 10:12 10 minutes, 12 seconds Introduced the green mile plus fleet cards in partnership with Jagel and enabled cashless transparent and 10:21 10 minutes, 21 seconds trackable transactions for transportation fleet customers for onboarding and mass transport companies. 10:29 10 minutes, 29 seconds The GA wise performance if you see Manaskcata in Gujarat is the largest GA with contributing around 49% of the 10:37 10 minutes, 37 seconds total revenue in the last year FY26 residential potential residential 10:43 10 minutes, 43 seconds connections ready metered is 63588 to be precise and uh the commercial 10:51 10 minutes, 51 seconds connections are more than 300 industrial are more than 15 and CG stations are 65 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds one of the highest in the any GA which uh of that size and that geography any other company may be having fate s in 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds Punjab contributed around 36% of the total revenue through the industrial segment mostly driven by PNG industrial 11:15 11 minutes, 15 seconds and slightly by the CNG segment also in Somnat the third year we have crossed the 11:23 11 minutes, 23 seconds 10,000 domestic PNG uh connections milestone and this number is growing expeditiously. Lastly, the Damakali 11:33 11 minutes, 33 seconds GA. This is a very high growth GA and rapidly CNG expansion is happening. 49 11:40 11 minutes, 40 seconds stations of uh mobility stations we already have and we are expanding with our network more potential tapping more 11:48 11 minutes, 48 seconds potential for our domestic connections also on way. 11:54 11 minutes, 54 seconds As regards business strategy, we can mention proudly that company has got very strategic focus on strengthening 12:02 12 minutes, 2 seconds the infrastructure in the existing GS by scaling PNG penetration in existing GS. 12:09 12 minutes, 9 seconds Continue rollout of CNG stations under DODO and OMC model. Wherever do is not possible, we are resorting to OMC for 12:18 12 minutes, 18 seconds expanding our footprints and Koko also of course wherever sub land is available for with a reasonable 12:25 12 minutes, 25 seconds uh input cost. We are also enhancing our CNG network in in uh high density areas. Improving 12:34 12 minutes, 34 seconds the penetration of the PNG domestic and commercial segments. We are strategically streamlining cost 12:41 12 minutes, 41 seconds structure and optimizing our sourcing portfolio which is the core competence of our team. Ensuring safe, reliable and 12:50 12 minutes, 50 seconds environmentfriendly gas distribution services. We have passed another accidentfree year where is not even 12:58 12 minutes, 58 seconds minor or reportable accident has happened. So we focus mostly on our good HSC practices. We are maintaining good 13:06 13 minutes, 6 seconds capital discipline in funding majority of the expenses through our internal acrals and maintaining our strong net 13:14 13 minutes, 14 seconds cash balance sheet with very strategic and very focused IRRa and return based capital allocation. 13:22 13 minutes, 22 seconds uh given the regulated uh nature of our sector HGD sector combined with the high entry barriers and long-term licenses 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds our business offers predictable multi-deadable growth visibility and 13:37 13 minutes, 37 seconds very high growth potential in all the 4G which we are purchasing. We would also like to mention with you our future outlook. 13:48 13 minutes, 48 seconds Despite uh near-term price volatility which you all of you know because of the geopolitical disturbances the global 13:55 13 minutes, 55 seconds energy disruptions has happened and it has impacted our uh CGD sector also alongside all other energy companies 14:05 14 minutes, 5 seconds energy consumption company of the nation. The CGD distribution companies are expected to experience a structural demand growth both with and stable 14:14 14 minutes, 14 seconds operational momentum and meaningful volume expansion in FY27. Uh policy support and demand fundamentals remain 14:23 14 minutes, 23 seconds strong making CGD sector a resilient strategically critical component of India's energy transition. In fact, the 14:31 14 minutes, 31 seconds government's focus on the CGD sector and natural gas consumption promoting it has 14:38 14 minutes, 38 seconds has grown up very very significantly which was not there in all past recent years uh because of the LPG crisis. All of you know the CNG has come into focus. 14:49 14 minutes, 49 seconds PNG has come into focus. Domestic and commercial corrections are very much in demand and we are riding on that demand. 14:56 14 minutes, 56 seconds Once the sourcing portfolio is uh properly redressed across the nation, we can expect a strategical uh energy 15:05 15 minutes, 5 seconds transition in a big way. With this, I would like to hand over the call to the moderator for Q&A questions. Thank you 15:13 15 minutes, 13 seconds very much for the patient hearing. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. 15:19 15 minutes, 19 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, please press star and then one on your touchstone telephone 15:28 15 minutes, 28 seconds and wait for your turn to ask the question. If you would like to withdraw your request, you may do so by pressing star and one again. 15:38 15 minutes, 38 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, please press star and one on the telephone keypad. 15:57 15 minutes, 57 seconds The first question comes from the line of Mr. Ketan Sha, an indigen investor. Please go ahead. Hi. Um, thank you for the opportunity. 16:05 16 minutes, 5 seconds Uh so my first question is with regards to uh the uh the volume contribution uh as against the capeex if we see the gas 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds of banaskcata uh versus fate side uh our capeex is uh much less as compared to fate side as 16:22 16 minutes, 22 seconds compared to banaskcata but um if I see the proportion of the revenues or the volumes that we are generating out of uh 16:29 16 minutes, 29 seconds the two there's a stark difference like you know balance kata on the given kex does not generate as much revenue or 16:37 16 minutes, 37 seconds volume as much as path generates. So could you could you please throw some light and explain how uh what 16:45 16 minutes, 45 seconds is the difference in these two gas that is causing to such uh differences in the volume. 16:52 16 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah for this question but the situation probably it's something otherwise you 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds know uh in Bakat if you go by that by FY 26 end we are somewhere in the level of 17:06 17 minutes, 6 seconds for 420 rupees we have invested till now um in comparison to around 200 cr rupees 17:14 17 minutes, 14 seconds in in so if you really see volume wise the banana kata volume is around 47 47% of 17:22 17 minutes, 22 seconds my total I mean MMS wise if you go 47% comes to us from Banaskcata whereas 17:30 17 minutes, 30 seconds Patag comes 39% only but at the same time if you go by the margin you know the return on capital employed so banask 17:39 17 minutes, 39 seconds kata with this 420 uh revenue wise uh we are also earning almost in the same line of percentage 17:47 17 minutes, 47 seconds but at the same time if you see the margin in the CNG sector balance being the CNG centric GA margins to the 17:56 17 minutes, 56 seconds company are much higher than what we get through industrial supply in the fert side. So we cannot see it only from the angle of 18:04 18 minutes, 4 seconds I mean capital employment we have to see return on capital employed G. So that way Barascata stands out much better than the fate side. 18:20 18 minutes, 20 seconds Okay. I will because what I was doing is basically just comparing the capex versus the volume generating. Yeah. And 18:27 18 minutes, 27 seconds on that basis actually the segment are different. 18:30 18 minutes, 30 seconds Banana we are not having much of industrial volumes. Uh CNG volume is higher. So CNG you understand the 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds contributions are much higher than what we really get through PNG industrial uh segment scattering. I mean whatever we get there this CNG is much much better than that. 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds Understood. Uh and so you know with respect to Namakari, how do we see this uh shaping up? So with Namakari, I've 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds got two questions. uh one is what is the uh planned capex for nomatakal 3 for f27 and uh you know the way we just 19:07 19 minutes, 7 seconds discussed uh you know in terms of uh um you know the margins uh being generated you know because of the uh the section 19:16 19 minutes, 16 seconds the sections we have that is like you know in CNG versus industrial so what numbers 19:31 19 minutes, 31 seconds in Namaki which is the most aspirational GF for us for our company. Till now we have invested something around 250 260 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds cr rupees there uh till date on the gross block side 257 cr to be more precise. uh we have invested there and 19:47 19 minutes, 47 seconds this year FYI 27 we have planned exceeding 150 cr rupees more in that particular GA and maybe if things all 19:55 19 minutes, 55 seconds permit well we may be exceeding 150 also maybe 170 180 we are targeting 20:04 20 minutes, 4 seconds internally so that is the way we want to expand that GA uh just now we have had 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds lot of issues in the LPG supply consistency So uh there's no auto LPG LPG run autos 20:19 20 minutes, 19 seconds were there several companies industrial commercials were also running on LPG. 20:24 20 minutes, 24 seconds Suddenly the demand is uh growing a lot in that GA. So we are focusing more on laying our infrastructure aggressively 20:33 20 minutes, 33 seconds so that our returns can be there better more custom acquisition can happen. So this 257 which we have deployed we'll 20:41 20 minutes, 41 seconds add up another 150 to 180 cr rupees going forward in namakal and richi. So the returns are also better and customer 20:48 20 minutes, 48 seconds service is also uh paramount for us in this difficult time and uh I think namakal will be our respirational 20:56 20 minutes, 56 seconds district we call it like that. What was the second question which you wanted to know? 21:01 21 minutes, 1 second uh the kind of customer profile that we expect in whether like is it going to be CNG heavy or is it going to be 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds industrial and commercial heavy u I request Mr. Min to answer that question. Uh 21:16 21 minutes, 16 seconds yeah. So uh Kan G if you look at the overall district profile of Namakal and Richie 21:23 21 minutes, 23 seconds uh it is most aspirilation GA which we have and if you look at the all three GA put together Namak and the 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds GA wise is much more higher than all the three G put together. So if you look at the overall growth over there I expect 21:41 21 minutes, 41 seconds that maximum 90% CNG volume will bring in domestic PNG we are laying the pipeline so it is going to add to the 21:49 21 minutes, 49 seconds numbers with the present situation where LPG is in shortage we are getting more demand from the domestic customer as well as commercial customer. So going 21:57 21 minutes, 57 seconds forward as and when we lay the infrastructure this mix over a period of one or two year will be between 70 and 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds 20 just like what we have seen it in other GS like Banascata and Bir and Sat 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds CG at present if you look at it we have rolled out OMC CNG model and the daily 22:27 22 minutes, 27 seconds CNG demand and that GA compared to last year has almost doubled. So 100% jump in growth for that G and CG demand is 22:35 22 minutes, 35 seconds there. We expect the same to continue this year which is going to drive our volume as well as bottom line in that GA 22:42 22 minutes, 42 seconds and the potential also in that GA both combined together is going to be high as sir already mentioned that we have 22:50 22 minutes, 50 seconds converted some TNTC buses which is going to drive volume and going forward also 22:56 22 minutes, 56 seconds TG D also we are putting up a bus stand CG station this is also going to drive more volume 23:04 23 minutes, 4 seconds in Mr. Ketan if you see the geography of that area this is a GA wherein four 23:13 23 minutes, 13 seconds national highway and state highway rather five you can say are passing through this. So the mobility sector is having a high potential in that area. 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds Only thing is that we you need more uh CNG culture there that side which was not there earlier. By our infrastructure 23:31 23 minutes, 31 seconds uh rollout uh things will get conversion will become very very fast and things will come to our favor in in terms of volumes. So CNG still is a focus area. 23:43 23 minutes, 43 seconds Uh that area is is actually is a twin district. Kishi is a different district. 23:47 23 minutes, 47 seconds Namakal is a different district and there is geographical spread is also very high more than 90 90 100 kilometers 23:53 23 minutes, 53 seconds around between the two. So uh the the population density is not very big. So 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second uh that way domestic and commercial are only sort of you know benefit which will 24:08 24 minutes, 8 seconds come uh when we roll out our online stations more on the uh the CNG stations 24:15 24 minutes, 15 seconds area. we once we roll out the steel title and we're laying so PNG and domestic and commercial will 24:22 24 minutes, 22 seconds automatically come. So we have I mean lot of hope from uh Namakali development of that district. 24:31 24 minutes, 31 seconds Just to add Ketan G all three-wheeler auto at present the new three-wheer CNG segment is the only one which is sold. 24:39 24 minutes, 39 seconds If you look at the data for past six months, uh we say 92% of the three-wheer auto segment is CNG and that is the 24:47 24 minutes, 47 seconds difference which we have seen. Earlier you know when we went there in that year two years back it was like LPG autos and 24:54 24 minutes, 54 seconds the petrol autos were there. Today it is all viable 92% to 95% is three wheelers which is CNG. So likewise we have seen 25:03 25 minutes, 3 seconds the conversion in auto taxis as well as the four-wheeler uh uh individual cars 25:10 25 minutes, 10 seconds also. So there is a jump in demand for CNG vehicles and we hope that this growth will continue for next two years. 25:21 25 minutes, 21 seconds Sure. Sure. And and the last question is with respect to the margin now given the uh the entire crisis equation that we 25:27 25 minutes, 27 seconds are seeing right now. Uh what based on our sourcing agreements and you know uh 25:35 25 minutes, 35 seconds the way we have tied up our uh uh gas supply uh what do you think you know how 25:41 25 minutes, 41 seconds our margins would fair in FI7 like uh are they likely to be impacted 25:47 25 minutes, 47 seconds negatively they would margin that we thank you 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds to specifically clarify this one my CFO is I mean giving to the exact precise answer for that. 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second Yeah. Hi Kan. So uh the gross margins if you see uh they are uh in the range of 25 to 26%. Uh they they have increased 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds from previous year. Now uh as the situation is unfolding in the Gulf uh so keeping that in mind we expect the 26:18 26 minutes, 18 seconds margins uh in the same range but it will it depends on how the situation unfolds. 26:23 26 minutes, 23 seconds So our uh endeavor is to maintain the margins uh gross margins and levels. 26:32 26 minutes, 32 seconds All right. Thank you so much and wish. Thank you. Thank you Ken. Thank you. 26:40 26 minutes, 40 seconds Next question comes from the line of Mr. 26:42 26 minutes, 42 seconds Kiran Gar from Nights Capital Management LLC. Please go. 26:47 26 minutes, 47 seconds Hi, good afternoon. for satan side when do you think the NGT order could be implemented? 26:55 26 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice question you have asked actually we are also awaiting uh you know it is uh uh this order which 27:05 27 minutes, 5 seconds came in the month of late February and immediately after that this war has broken out and you understand that how 27:12 27 minutes, 12 seconds the gas sourcing has been impacted. See most of the supplier in the industrial zone that that GA as you have very 27:20 27 minutes, 20 seconds rightly said is predominantly in industrial supply zone. So gas supply itself has been uh very much restricted. 27:29 27 minutes, 29 seconds It came down to uh 80% of the daily contracted quantity and further went 27:35 27 minutes, 35 seconds down up to 65 and then 55. So now very lately it has been restored back to 80%. 27:42 27 minutes, 42 seconds So uh the industries you know broadly they are already under the uh cut down of their supplies. Although we are 27:49 27 minutes, 49 seconds trying to meet more uh through our spot uh uh spot supplies and mostly the 27:57 27 minutes, 57 seconds market is saturated. No demand is getting unattended. Uh we have virtually not cut any single from for any 28:06 28 minutes, 6 seconds industry. But since the prices have gone up, see the demand itself has been I 28:13 28 minutes, 13 seconds mean uh shrinking a bit but at the same time we are not making any loss. We are 28:19 28 minutes, 19 seconds passing on all the enhanced uh price to the customers and our margins are intact. Still appetite is continuing. So 28:28 28 minutes, 28 seconds uh at this particular level if this particular level I mean uh forcing the 28:35 28 minutes, 35 seconds government to apply uh all the NGT orders exactly in the manner uh in which 28:43 28 minutes, 43 seconds the Punjab pollution control board should give the administrative orders and notification that we are not trying to pursue immediately but let the whole 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds supply situation be improved even marginally if it is improved then definitely this question will come and 28:59 28 minutes, 59 seconds we would like to reach to the uh government authorities including the PPCB and CPCB 29:07 29 minutes, 7 seconds for uh stricter implementation of the same the moment uh because see demand destruction is happening already and at 29:16 29 minutes, 16 seconds that point of time if we force them more then this companies will be in a more agitative mode and then difficulty will 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds come on our credibility also. So we are taking a very cautious approach in that the moment the supply situation is 29:31 29 minutes, 31 seconds balanced or it is slightly favored strategically we would like to uh compel the man compel the government uh for 29:40 29 minutes, 40 seconds stricter implementation of this uh NGT order. Currently we are having a watch and balancing our sourcing with the uh demand patterns. We are not doing it. 29:51 29 minutes, 51 seconds Okay. Thank you for your detail answer. 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds And if you could provide guidance for FYI 27 and FI28 in terms of volume 30:01 30 minutes, 1 second growth and AITA per SCM AITA per SCM currently you can say that 30:11 30 minutes, 11 seconds companywide if you see segment wise I would not like to mention but company wise you see it is more than 5 rupees 30:18 30 minutes, 18 seconds AITA you know see perm and we going forward will improve it by another 10 to 30:25 30 minutes, 25 seconds 15%. Going forward in the next financial year. 30:30 30 minutes, 30 seconds You see the whole situation you will appreciate is so much evolving that uh uh giving a predictable guidance is a 30:38 30 minutes, 38 seconds challenge for us. So in this evolving situation I hope my investors will pardon me for some time. Let some more 30:46 30 minutes, 46 seconds clarity come. But we are definitively uh definitely focused to improve our SEM margin by 10 to 15% surely in whatever 30:55 30 minutes, 55 seconds condition it may come. Uh so we can assure you that last year's 31:02 31 minutes, 2 seconds u the habitita margin permium will definitely be improved situation next year. 31:11 31 minutes, 11 seconds Okay. And in terms of volume growth, in terms of volume growth, you see we have had uh year on year you can say 9 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds uh% plus uh this year. Next year we are planning more than uh it will be double digit and it will be fairly uh fairly uh 31:29 31 minutes, 29 seconds you know can say 30% uh plus sort of uh expectation we are making over what we have done year on year. So this year 31:38 31 minutes, 38 seconds like you know 223 MMS we had so we'll be definitely crossing 250 or maybe more 31:45 31 minutes, 45 seconds maybe much more. So let this evolving situation and gas supply situation stabilize a bit. Uh our team is ready 31:53 31 minutes, 53 seconds with all the plan phase wise, month wise, quarter wise and uh we will make a very much um better ROI picture going 32:03 32 minutes, 3 seconds forward. Figures it is difficult to predict at this moment but it will be double digit and much higher in double digit level. 32:12 32 minutes, 12 seconds Okay. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. Thank you sir. 32:18 32 minutes, 18 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. 32:26 32 minutes, 26 seconds I repeat, if you have any questions, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. 32:38 32 minutes, 38 seconds The next question comes from the line of Mr. Sakitap Sakit Kapoor from Kapoor and Co. Please go ahead. 32:46 32 minutes, 46 seconds Yeah. Uh namaskar Sharma G. Hope I'm audible. Yeah. Yeah, you are very much audible. Namaste sake G. 32:54 32 minutes, 54 seconds As you mentioned that our uh annual volume was 223.67 uh mm cm and we are expecting a higher 33:04 33 minutes, 4 seconds volume growth than double digit. So uh and and that too in the tune of 250 plus that is what the understanding is as for today's uh environment. 33:15 33 minutes, 15 seconds Exactly. Exactly. 33:17 33 minutes, 17 seconds Okay sir. Firstly sir if you could just give us some understanding of what factors actually led to the lower 33:26 33 minutes, 26 seconds profitability for us uh December quarter versus the March quarter and how this the geopolitical and the availability of 33:34 33 minutes, 34 seconds gas the pricing played out uh for the March quarter correction 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds margin in the enuing quarter demands 33:50 33 minutes, 50 seconds because of the acceptability of higher prices if I got it correctly. 34:04 34 minutes, 4 seconds First of all, we had always tried to insulate our margin from any sort of uh sourcing volatility. You understand that 34:12 34 minutes, 12 seconds uh in the in the last quarter, you know, uh suddenly the uh APM allocation was impacted. Then NWG prices which is 34:20 34 minutes, 20 seconds formula based that also started coming little higher and there was a I mean challenge in the uh industrial segment 34:28 34 minutes, 28 seconds for the gas availability part of it also. So this was the challenge in Q4 definitely uh but uh we have we can 34:37 34 minutes, 37 seconds assure you that margins were kept intact and with regard to with regard to our strategy is concerned how we are planning to go better in next quarter. 34:48 34 minutes, 48 seconds First of all that uh we are in a position to uh transfer our any sort of uh uh you know uh sourcing uh sourcing 34:58 34 minutes, 58 seconds uh uh what you call sourcing cost strategically to customers to customers 35:06 35 minutes, 6 seconds we have able to pass it on and we have to make a good campaign broadly with the industrial customers and CNG wise also 35:15 35 minutes, 15 seconds we have found that uh since the alternate fuel Well uh wise you know uh see 35:22 35 minutes, 22 seconds people are getting the awareness that how the gas price volatility has happened. Uh petrol and diesel prices in spite of losses of OMC are being capped. 35:33 35 minutes, 33 seconds So the customers had been cooperative. 35:35 35 minutes, 35 seconds They have not been shunning us for petty reasons and all that. So even the G even the CNG vehicle sale we are tracking in 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds every G gas CG gas I mean the the vehicle sale is also not very adversely 35:53 35 minutes, 53 seconds impacted which is a routine growth of the CG veil sales we are seeing from the 35:59 35 minutes, 59 seconds WAN data transport uh data also. So from that angle we are insulating our uh CNG 36:06 36 minutes, 6 seconds prices and industrial prices and commercial prices the customers have been understanding and uh through our 36:15 36 minutes, 15 seconds campaign u the conversion is also happening well and consumption is also happening well rather we are adding more customer in the commercial segment 36:24 36 minutes, 24 seconds hotels and other commercial uh areas who were using LPG earlier they are now 36:31 36 minutes, 31 seconds aggressively reaching taking us out more registration we are rolling out. 36:35 36 minutes, 35 seconds Government is giving lot of uh incentives to the CGD company like us 36:41 36 minutes, 41 seconds for all the uh pending permissions for laying the pipeline in the municipal area in the national highway in the 36:48 36 minutes, 48 seconds state highway or even the railways every permission is getting now a fasttrack. 36:54 36 minutes, 54 seconds So we find that uh growth will have certainly be favorable for us more than what we expected in the previous financial years. 37:06 37 minutes, 6 seconds Okay. And in terms of pricing uh can you give us some understanding how have the the CNG prices uh uh uh is a 37:15 37 minutes, 15 seconds incrementally trend in the average rates have gone up for this uh uh for the last quarter. 37:23 37 minutes, 23 seconds Uh our marketing head is here. Uh more than me, he will probably give me my answer. 37:31 37 minutes, 31 seconds Hi Mr. Sakit Ashish M here. So uh Mr. 37:34 37 minutes, 34 seconds Sakit what we have done is whatever our uh incremental cost is there. So for the month of April we have passed on that 37:42 37 minutes, 42 seconds cost to customer and then there was sufficient amount of delta available with with respect to adjoining gas and 37:49 37 minutes, 49 seconds with respect to co prices of petrol and diesel. Uh so there was uh cost increase 37:57 37 minutes, 57 seconds primarily due to two factors. One was increase in the ceiling price of APM gas which was $6.75 38:04 38 minutes, 4 seconds per M2 for previous financial year. Now it is $7 per MBT for current financial year and uh significant amount of 38:14 38 minutes, 14 seconds increase in uh gas prices under NWG formula. So due to uh these 38:22 38 minutes, 22 seconds two increases our cost for CNG had increased and we were able to successfully pass on pass on the uh 38:29 38 minutes, 29 seconds resultant gas cost to the consumer. So we have protected our margin for uh for this financial year as well. 38:37 38 minutes, 37 seconds Namaskar Mr. G. So taking this uh incre increase into uh uh factoring into it. Uh how has the demand 38:45 38 minutes, 45 seconds uh shaped up in terms of we are still getting the similar volumes from the existing customer uh in spite of uh the 38:55 38 minutes, 55 seconds increase in prices and uh currently sir uh availability of gas from the all the all the sources that we have currently. 39:03 39 minutes, 3 seconds How are things uh uh shaping up in terms of the eliminity of those things? 39:08 39 minutes, 8 seconds Right sir. So this is a very good question. Uh so CNG sales if we talk about for uh month of April even after 39:16 39 minutes, 16 seconds passing on the cost has been in line with our expectation what we had budgeted for this financial year and uh 39:23 39 minutes, 23 seconds uh coming to availability of gas. So availability of gas is not a concern for domestic and CNG segment. So whatever is 39:31 39 minutes, 31 seconds the demand whatever we need uh it is getting available in the market and we are sourcing that gas for serving our customers. 39:41 39 minutes, 41 seconds Okay. and and the coping pattern has changed sir when I think so with with the with the type of geopolitical issues 39:48 39 minutes, 48 seconds in the in the Middle East region and uh we being reported that a lot of infrastructure has been uh faced severe 39:56 39 minutes, 56 seconds destruction especially Saudi and Qatar how has then the LNG and the other uh uh 40:04 40 minutes, 4 seconds gas supplies affected and how are things are going to shape up in testing quarters going ahead that uh how will 40:11 40 minutes, 11 seconds this uh this dynamics going to play out especially for uh companies like us where sorting of gas is the sorting of 40:20 40 minutes, 20 seconds gas and the pricing of gas is what will define our margin right so uh your question is 40:27 40 minutes, 27 seconds specifically for CNG or any other segment Mr. 40:31 40 minutes, 31 seconds So for all across the market where you operate but PNG is the more profitable one and the higher volume so 40:38 40 minutes, 38 seconds CG right so Mr. sake. So what uh for I'll answer the question for CNG first. 40:45 40 minutes, 45 seconds So in CNG we'll get around 40% uh I'll uh this is the rough number. So around 40:51 40 minutes, 51 seconds 40% of uh our volume from NWG or APM right and balance is sourced through 40:59 40 minutes, 59 seconds either long-term contract or through HPHT gas volume which is uh made available to each and every CG entity on 41:06 41 minutes, 6 seconds month-on-month basis through IGX uh bid right so uh for CNG volumes a APM uh 41:16 41 minutes, 16 seconds fluctuation plus minus was there but that was compensated by NWG gasp apart from that in line with government gadget 41:24 41 minutes, 24 seconds guidelines 100% of other LT gas we are getting at contract size itself and those are not getting affected which was 41:32 41 minutes, 32 seconds there uh for usage into CNG segment and uh for HPHT in fact even though the 41:41 41 minutes, 41 seconds prices of other gases have increased HPHT gas which is made available through IDX the prices for that uh source course 41:50 41 minutes, 50 seconds has reduced from $9.72 to $8.92. So over there that is also compensated uh compensating to reduce the or uh 41:59 41 minutes, 59 seconds reducing the cost of uh gas for any CD entity. Okay. 42:09 42 minutes, 9 seconds Yes. Going forward also what we foresee that sufficient gas is available in the market in terms of HPHT or NWG or APM uh 42:18 42 minutes, 18 seconds which may not be a challenge for coming years coming year uh for a organization 42:24 42 minutes, 24 seconds like of our scale because uh in HPT uh bid the gas is basically allocated to a 42:31 42 minutes, 31 seconds C3 entity on prorated basis. uh so whatever we are we have a requirement we have been getting that much volume of 42:39 42 minutes, 39 seconds gas in HPT bits historically and we don't think that is going to change in uh short-term basis 42:48 42 minutes, 48 seconds okay prof just to conclude as you mentioned that for the current financial year we are uh 42:56 42 minutes, 56 seconds we are on course to improve our margin and also uh improve our volume so in 43:03 43 minutes, 3 seconds these two aspect We have our uh road map clear and uh going ahead now for this year the namakal and the tritity uh VA 43:12 43 minutes, 12 seconds will also be uh contributing with the type of synergies uh that we have done with the state government and and the private operators. So this understanding is correct. 43:23 43 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah, you are largely correct. Uh I would also like to mention to you uh your concern regarding sourcing part. 43:29 43 minutes, 29 seconds Let me mention one light first that uh you see our portfolio for CNG sector which is the most profitable volume wise 43:36 43 minutes, 36 seconds also and and and uh net margin wise also is broadly see more than 75 to 80% you 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds can call it to be more precise is uh fed through domestic uh sources as regard RLG and KQR which you mentioned 43:53 43 minutes, 53 seconds we have got long-term contracts with Shell and GSPC so exactly whether it will be fromQatar sourcing because RAS 44:01 44 minutes, 1 second gas cutter supplies they are not in our portfolio. So we don't expect that uh see when you do a long-term contract 44:09 44 minutes, 9 seconds with any of the supplier be it Gale IOC or GSPC or Shell or total or traffic 44:17 44 minutes, 17 seconds that time you know we mention which project is going to feed you but ours is from their portfolio whether they bring 44:25 44 minutes, 25 seconds American gas whether they bring Nigerian gas or whether they bring Australian Gorgon gas or they bring the Saudi gas 44:33 44 minutes, 33 seconds or the cutter gas that is none of our concern. So force measure was initially invoked but that government's 44:42 44 minutes, 42 seconds intervention was there was only restricted to the industrial supplies not the domestic not the mobility. So 44:50 44 minutes, 50 seconds CNG and domestic was very much insulated. Now the even commercial is coming to the focus. So CGB getting a 44:56 44 minutes, 56 seconds priority sector allocation will not be impacted to the extent this is being um 45:03 45 minutes, 3 seconds I mean forcing for the industrial sector or the power sector or even the fertilizer sector. So that way our 45:10 45 minutes, 10 seconds growth and the margin appears to be very much insulated. So that is one comfort we can give to our investor which we 45:19 45 minutes, 19 seconds understand and we see that same thing I'm telling to you. Second part uh with regard to Namakal and Trishi is concerned. Namakal Trii is growing well. 45:28 45 minutes, 28 seconds Our capex is happening as per our plans. 45:31 45 minutes, 31 seconds Some difficulty was there now with the formation of new government. We believe more growth oriented policies of the state will come. Permissions are already 45:40 45 minutes, 40 seconds in place as per the central government's directives from MOPG and other instructions were given to all states 45:47 45 minutes, 47 seconds that all the restrictions regarding permissions etc are now redressed to a great extent. So converting uh I mean um 45:57 45 minutes, 57 seconds uh the customers you know from LPG and other conventional fuel. So that should 46:04 46 minutes, 4 seconds not be a difficulty. So as of now we don't foresee as we go to the quarter two quarter three we will interact with 46:11 46 minutes, 11 seconds you you guys more then whatever more visibility will come we will share with you as of now we expect that our plans should roll out as as per as as per uh 46:20 46 minutes, 20 seconds the figures which we have decided okay one point and then I'll join the queue uh sharm when we spoke post the 46:29 46 minutes, 29 seconds third quarter there we did not have any idea nobody had an idea of what was going to shape in the geopolitical aspect and we were 46:37 46 minutes, 37 seconds looking for March quarter to be much better in terms of what December quarter was but that was not the case as we have 46:44 46 minutes, 44 seconds seen that although the revenue profile has improved but margins and the profitability on a on an absolute number 46:51 46 minutes, 51 seconds basis uh has declined. So going ahead into we are early into the quarter. how how is this quarter uh shaping up in 47:00 47 minutes terms of the profitability profile and I have a concluding question and uh uh remark for uh for for our CFO also if 47:09 47 minutes, 9 seconds time permit I I'll pass it on to CFO to answer it but one thing I can tell you some one if you 47:15 47 minutes, 15 seconds go to our uh you know P&L more minutely you'll find that some one-time entries are there because of 47:23 47 minutes, 23 seconds that only uh the margins are not in line with Q1 1 Q2Q like 15 cr rupes pad we had been consistently giving for every 47:31 47 minutes, 31 seconds quarter fourth quarter it has slightly dipped to 12 12 cr rupes around you know so uh that answer he will give there is 47:39 47 minutes, 39 seconds some debit which uh lastly has come and which will be definitely rever the quarter one of this thing my CFO will 47:47 47 minutes, 47 seconds answer you better yeah uh see on the gross margin front yeah on the gross margin front on the Q1 47:56 47 minutes, 56 seconds Q if See we have maintained the margins in fact it is slightly better. Now coming to the IITA margins uh uh there 48:03 48 minutes, 3 seconds is one impairment in our JV that we have disclosed also of 1.34 crores. So the difference between pat of the both 48:10 48 minutes, 10 seconds quarters is 2 cr. So largely that is the reason and one uh bank charges uh have been levied of around 2.8 8 crores which 48:18 48 minutes, 18 seconds we have spoken with our bank and we are uh pretty sure from the bank side that uh it will be taken care in the next uh 48:26 48 minutes, 26 seconds coming months. So that was the one time uh effect otherwise we are uh much better than uh Q3 if you remove these 48:34 48 minutes, 34 seconds two things on Q4. Going forward also as co has said that we expect our margins to be intact and in fact uh our uh 48:43 48 minutes, 43 seconds growth we expect in double digit. Uh so that is uh the guidance and on the IITA front also uh we will be uh plus 5.2 and 48:53 48 minutes, 53 seconds in the range of 5.3 to 5.5 rupees per SC 12 cr was the number you gave sir I missed your two numbers you gave one was 49:02 49 minutes, 2 seconds for the final cost uh and uh one was 1.34 crores uh that was onetime uh impairment of our JV 49:10 49 minutes, 10 seconds receivables and the other one was 2.86 86 crores a bank charge. 49:15 49 minutes, 15 seconds If you remove these two, you'll find that we have we are strictly in line with our prediction. So these are one time entries and these provisions etc 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds will be definitely reversed uh going forward in next quarter because as on the date of signing of the balance sheet these remained unresolved with the 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds bankers. So this these bank charges and that's another this JV you know uh JV entry uh that will be redressed going 49:42 49 minutes, 42 seconds forward. So we don't consider it's a performance dent. It is only some accounting things have happened which will be redressed going forward. We can 49:51 49 minutes, 51 seconds assure you even if we add those three cr we are at uh 20 cr whereas our profitability for 49:58 49 minutes, 58 seconds 20 for December was 22 cr. So still there is a 10% decline. So what explains that that decline? 50:06 50 minutes, 6 seconds So if you see the uh fat for the Q3 so it is uh 50 uh 15 crores right and uh Q4 50:15 50 minutes, 15 seconds it is 13 cr. So the difference is 2 crores only. 50:19 50 minutes, 19 seconds So I was looking at the PBT number to be very precise. So that was from where the the tax is the the provision part. Uh so 50:27 50 minutes, 27 seconds I was looking at the PBT number at 22 K the consolidated one and this quarter it was 17.7. 50:33 50 minutes, 33 seconds So if we add three also there it is closer to uh the 20 cr mark or 21 cr. So still lower than the December quarter. 50:43 50 minutes, 43 seconds So actually uh 22 crores and 17.7 cr. So if you add 2.86 plus 1.34 it comes to 4 crores. So most largely it is because of 50:52 50 minutes, 52 seconds uh resting and uh going forward as the volumes increase no uh so our opex perm will reduce. So that is why the guidance 51:00 51 minutes that we are giving. Okay. When we are representing our time to interrupt sir. 51:07 51 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. Yeah. I thank you sir. Definitely. 51:11 51 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you. We can connect letter on offline also. 51:16 51 minutes, 16 seconds Thank you sir. The next question comes from the line of Mr. Pavan Kumar from Ratnatraa Capital. Please go ahead. 51:23 51 minutes, 23 seconds Sir, how many stations do we intend to add this particular year? First of all, since that uh you had uh actually come 51:31 51 minutes, 31 seconds up uh with the 150 number last year and I think you have met met it. Uh so this year how many stations do you expect to 51:38 51 minutes, 38 seconds fully add and how many would be in Kirichi Namakal? Uh yeah that is the first question. 51:48 51 minutes, 48 seconds Yeah thank you. You have noticed our commitment well and it was our really herculean task to exactly match to this 51:58 51 minutes, 58 seconds level of 150 benchmark I mean landmark position and we really did our project team really did their level best to actually keep the promises. Thank you. 52:09 52 minutes, 9 seconds And this time uh we are expecting uh another 36 to be added. We will not be 52:16 52 minutes, 16 seconds able to really grow. See exog we had done 111 we did in uh several years and 52:24 52 minutes, 24 seconds uh this year alone we did 39. So another 36 we have kept moderately to be uh to 52:32 52 minutes, 32 seconds be to be said to my stakeholders but uh 36 we are again this year planning and u 52:40 52 minutes, 40 seconds uh with with the with the efforts of my project team we should meet it. 52:47 52 minutes, 47 seconds Okay. Okay. And uh two CFOs are uh basically you uh you indicated that uh 52:54 52 minutes, 54 seconds there was an a chance of reversal of one 1.34 crores of which were written off on 53:02 53 minutes, 2 seconds account of J is it did I hear it correct? 53:07 53 minutes, 7 seconds No this 1.34 is a provision made uh against the receivables from our JV Nihon cylinders. Correct. 53:14 53 minutes, 14 seconds And yeah so we had made a similar uh this thing in Q1 also of 3.75 cr so so 53:22 53 minutes, 22 seconds balance we expect from uh uh to be received from that JV so work is going on on that there is no expectation of any further 53:31 53 minutes, 31 seconds uh sort of provision to be made in the books these are only on the insistence of you can understand the uh the the the 53:38 53 minutes, 38 seconds statutory auditors uh I mean safety net is growing very hard so needed sort of you know compulsorily some 53:46 53 minutes, 46 seconds provision to be made. So we have conservatively made it uh but at least the amount is intact and good as far as management 53:54 53 minutes, 54 seconds understanding of the recovery part is concerned and uh with regard to the bank entry that so definitely in a month's 54:02 54 minutes, 2 seconds time it will be reversed that was some bank charges they have eronously charged to us we have made a a higher level 54:09 54 minutes, 9 seconds presentation since bank committee's meeting was not possible before the balance sheet date so we had to take a 54:17 54 minutes, 17 seconds one time sort of hit that will be reversed in the Q1 itself. 54:23 54 minutes, 23 seconds Okay. Okay. And but what are any other uh extra expenses apart from uh these 54:29 54 minutes, 29 seconds two uh on the P&L because what I see is other expenses have increased and uh even the employee cost increased. 54:38 54 minutes, 38 seconds Employee cost increase was it like there was some kind of incentive in this particular quarter? 54:45 54 minutes, 45 seconds No in the employee cost as we as our business is growing no so uh we have added uh uh employees in this so at the 54:53 54 minutes, 53 seconds start of the year uh there were 214 employees now we are 256 so that that is a quarter on quarter uh that is uh the 55:01 55 minutes, 1 second increase on year on year otherwise uh uh we are uh on similar levels quarteron quarter of course license fee slight 55:09 55 minutes, 9 seconds increase will be there depending on the revenue that is 2% of our net revenue you I I I appreciate you know you have 55:18 55 minutes, 18 seconds really noticed it. So but this impact you will find in everybody's balance sheet. See new labor code had come now 55:25 55 minutes, 25 seconds you remember. So because of that every company had to take some extra provisioning. So we also had to 55:33 55 minutes, 33 seconds take around 60 lakhs rupees worth of provisioning on the implementation of the new labor code which came. So that impact is coming in the uh last quarter. 55:43 55 minutes, 43 seconds I think CFO is it okay? Q3 millia. 55:46 55 minutes, 46 seconds Q3 Q3 millia s. So that impact can also be one uh such this thing but as such since the company is growing and future 55:54 55 minutes, 54 seconds growth is there project rollouts are there so we have deployed a little more I mean stronger team uh for that some 56:02 56 minutes, 2 seconds slight change will be there but we are meticulous on that it will not and no incentive or no bonus roll out or 56:09 56 minutes, 9 seconds nothing of that extra abnormal any other entry is there in our Q4 balance sheet m 56:18 56 minutes, 18 seconds Okay sir about 14 15% kind of volume growth would be would that be a fair expectation this year or that is pretty 56:25 56 minutes, 25 seconds much higher on the high as volume growth as regard volume growth let me reiterate one more point that 56:32 56 minutes, 32 seconds last year except the industrial segment which is in fate sab and uh just now 56:39 56 minutes, 39 seconds someone asked also key fat how you are planning for implementation of NGT order and all so uh that only was a retaining 56:48 56 minutes, 48 seconds factor for us otherwise in all other segments CNG segment PNG commercial PNG 56:54 56 minutes, 54 seconds industrial we have had uh last year 20% 22% 24% like that year-on-year growth 57:03 57 minutes, 3 seconds and we will maintain the same level of growth in all the three segments this time also industrial automatically we 57:11 57 minutes, 11 seconds will grow much higher uh because that NGT order if it is uh in the better and spirit is implemented by the state 57:19 57 minutes, 19 seconds government administrations. Well, then industrial to automatically because of lower waste also the growth will be higher and 57:28 57 minutes, 28 seconds we we expect that 23 24 whatever industrial volume we were there uh we should catch up to that level and uh see 57:37 57 minutes, 37 seconds as such also uh that area after the Amhari government came to Punjab was 57:44 57 minutes, 44 seconds reeling under degrowth in industrial uh segment but I hope something good is expected to happen that side also. So 57:53 57 minutes, 53 seconds industrial growth with the NGT order implementation now uh even industrial will not lag behind. Uh 58:02 58 minutes, 2 seconds we are expecting that in all four segments we will be growing more than 20% year on year. 58:09 58 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you sir. 58:18 58 minutes, 18 seconds Next question comes from the line of Mr. 58:19 58 minutes, 19 seconds Sashi Ranjan from Anandan Capital please go ahead sir. 58:24 58 minutes, 24 seconds Thank you for the opportunity sir and congratulation to the entire team especially the project team for the feed they have they have achieved on the ground. Uh just few quick question. What 58:33 58 minutes, 33 seconds is the percentage of the spo spot uh CNG that we uh did last year or last quarter versus the long-term purchase agreement 58:43 58 minutes, 43 seconds on CNG side? Uh we had uh how much you know u CNG percentage was 58:53 58 minutes, 53 seconds versus uh long-term uh in CNG in Q4 was only 4%. 59:00 59 minutes And the rest was PhD and for the quarter it was 4% for the whole year. 59:09 59 minutes, 9 seconds This is for the whole year. Huh? 59:11 59 minutes, 11 seconds Oh, whole year it will be much less whole year to it was very comfortable. 59:16 59 minutes, 16 seconds We have designed our sourcing portfolio so comfortably with the help of I mean good sourcing team with us that spot 59:24 59 minutes, 24 seconds wise we are hardly any uh buyer rather even uh whatever we are getting in very very compulsive situation that also we 59:33 59 minutes, 33 seconds are getting through and reliance at HPT rate which is the most competitive rate currently. So as such you know on PNG 59:42 59 minutes, 42 seconds segment also our portfolio of sourcing is very supportive. So beer 3% I mean 4% 59:50 59 minutes, 50 seconds 4% only we have resorted in the hope beer. 59:54 59 minutes, 54 seconds Uh that's that's fantastic sir. Uh so let's come to the operations part. So I see that there is uh I mean CNG uh 1:00:02 1 hour, 2 seconds mother station is number is one in number and mother come online CNG stations are 12 in number. So uh are we 1:00:09 1 hour, 9 seconds resorting to cut down the operational cost by u getting into like uh you know composite material for transporting the 1:00:19 1 hour, 19 seconds CNG from the mother station to the filling station any plans like that for instance there's a company uh who supplies composite material where they 1:00:28 1 hour, 28 seconds say that the operational cost will be really very less compared to the metallic cylinder that we primarily use for transporting CNG from mother station 1:00:35 1 hour, 35 seconds to the filling station. Am I clear with my question sir? 1:00:41 1 hour, 41 seconds Yeah. Yeah, you are clear with the solution. I'll give you a generic answer to this only. Uh that as a matter of policy, we believe that we should have 1:00:50 1 hour, 50 seconds um as much as possible the online stations only but only where we are constrained by the geography and spread 1:00:59 1 hour, 59 seconds of it. uh there only we are we are constrained to keep it on daughter booster and mother station feeds to 1:01:07 1 hour, 1 minute, 7 seconds those daughter stations otherwise we prefer as much as possible and we are investing a lot also on making the station online which gives us a better 1:01:15 1 hour, 1 minute, 15 seconds efficiency. Secondly, as regards your mother station question, my operation head is here. Uh he can answer uh well 1:01:25 1 hour, 1 minute, 25 seconds on on mother station we have almost uh around 35% of our fleet of type three caskets right now. 1:01:36 1 hour, 1 minute, 36 seconds See what type three casket you already have. You already have 35% of my my casket movement is on type three only. 1:01:46 1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds Okay, that's great. So, you're already on the uh right line to save the operational cost. Now the final cost final question if my uh if I may squeeze 1:01:55 1 hour, 1 minute, 55 seconds out uh what is the growth in the two gas like Banaskcata and Namakali when it comes to the both CNG vehicles and is 1:02:05 1 hour, 2 minutes, 5 seconds that matching up with the growth in volume from our stations I'm asking let me elaborate let me 1:02:12 1 hour, 2 minutes, 12 seconds simplify it growth of CG vehicles in Bernat Karta and Namakan andi and is that growth matching up with the uh growth from stations. 1:02:23 1 hour, 2 minutes, 23 seconds Uh right. So uh this is I'll like to answer this question. So in Banaz Kata and Namak and Trig these two 1:02:33 1 hour, 2 minutes, 33 seconds are very different geographies. So if I talk about passenger vehicle in passenger vehicle segment in Banaz Kata 1:02:42 1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds whatever passenger vehicles are being added in that J more than 40% of uh CNG 1:02:49 1 hour, 2 minutes, 49 seconds vehicle. So penetration in CNG segment is very very high over there. Okay sir. 1:02:55 1 hour, 2 minutes, 55 seconds Right. And uh if I'm uh coming to Namak and Tritig as you know it uh I mean CNG 1:03:04 1 hour, 3 minutes, 4 seconds is a new fuel to that region uh the Tamil Nadu state as a state put together. So over there uh I mean that 1:03:12 1 hour, 3 minutes, 12 seconds much penetration is not there but what we have witnessed is the CNG penetration passenger vehicle segment uh is increasing substantially and on an 1:03:21 1 hour, 3 minutes, 21 seconds average over there also more than 15% of uh passenger vehicles are CNG passenger 1:03:28 1 hour, 3 minutes, 28 seconds vehicles only and the number is growing on quarteronquarter basis. 1:03:34 1 hour, 3 minutes, 34 seconds That's a great news for us. So uh coming to the cape that we are planning in Namakal and Richi uh so what will be the source of fund for the Namakali uh 1:03:43 1 hour, 3 minutes, 43 seconds capeex? This is last question from my side. Thank you. 1:03:46 1 hour, 3 minutes, 46 seconds Yeah I think I'll hand over to CFO for this question. Uh yeah can you repeat the question? 1:03:55 1 hour, 3 minutes, 55 seconds The question is that the normal and cheap capex that we are planning in next year like 150 cr uh capex and maybe more 1:04:03 1 hour, 4 minutes, 3 seconds in uh next financial year. So what will what will be the source of fund for the capex? 1:04:08 1 hour, 4 minutes, 8 seconds Yeah. So we general approval. Yeah. 1:04:10 1 hour, 4 minutes, 10 seconds Sorry. Got it. So Nakal and Richi we have uh you know IPO funds available with us. So uh as at the close of March 1:04:18 1 hour, 4 minutes, 18 seconds we have about 194 crores of funds available. So through that we will do the capex in namakal and 3ci. For the other three years largely we rely on 1:04:27 1 hour, 4 minutes, 27 seconds internal acros plus we have a a line from uh term loan from a bank of about 40 crores 40 45 crores is available in 1:04:36 1 hour, 4 minutes, 36 seconds that. So that should be funds wise uh there is no issue we are fully tied up. 1:04:42 1 hour, 4 minutes, 42 seconds Uh thank you for all the elaborate uh answers sir. Congratulations for the future endeavors to this very great team. Thank you very much sir. 1:04:49 1 hour, 4 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you. Thank you very much sir. Thank you. 1:04:52 1 hour, 4 minutes, 52 seconds Thank you sir. The next question comes from the line of Mr. Manikandan an Indian investor. Please go ahead sir. 1:05:01 1 hour, 5 minutes, 1 second Hello sir. Uh uh am I audible? Yes. Yeah you are audible. Please go ahead. 1:05:08 1 hour, 5 minutes, 8 seconds Uh beyond volume mix what are the key factors uh which are driving the CGD 1:05:15 1 hour, 5 minutes, 15 seconds margins? uh uh I want to know uh for example assuming CGD and industrial volumes are fixed and infrastructure 1:05:23 1 hour, 5 minutes, 23 seconds base is also fixed what are the key factors affecting other than that 1:05:31 1 hour, 5 minutes, 31 seconds see the key to success of any uh GA you know u in CG sector you know as for uh 1:05:39 1 hour, 5 minutes, 39 seconds your questions if I have correctly understood you should divide the companies CG companies in two three different different segments like IGL, 1:05:47 1 hour, 5 minutes, 47 seconds MGL, M&GL or GL gas those who had got this award of the GA much ahead with the 1:05:55 1 hour, 5 minutes, 55 seconds minimal uh sort of uh minimum work commitment uh they they have virtually 1:06:02 1 hour, 6 minutes, 2 seconds completed all their capex only OPEX is there and then entire gross margin they are enjoying secondly they are bought in 1:06:10 1 hour, 6 minutes, 10 seconds such cities where the infra laying is already over or There the concentration of households or the commercial it's so 1:06:19 1 hour, 6 minutes, 19 seconds good so high that uh once you have reached to a society or high-rise building you only need uh to meter the 1:06:26 1 hour, 6 minutes, 26 seconds consumption and then bill it whereas for the latter part of G which which have been given the licensing after 2017 181 1:06:35 1 hour, 6 minutes, 35 seconds 19 in which bracket we fall we have to cover the spread uh geographical spread of a very very wide area the there are 1:06:45 1 hour, 6 minutes, 45 seconds uh BPL families uh all the uh households are even not even paka households or 1:06:52 1 hour, 6 minutes, 52 seconds even you can say that society culture high-rise building etc are not there so those companies which are such CGD 1:07:00 1 hour, 7 minutes companies they require very high capex to reach every nook and corner of it if you have been tracking the CGD sector 1:07:09 1 hour, 7 minutes, 9 seconds well uh you must have noticed that even the PNG has mandate of only onethird of the 1:07:17 1 hour, 7 minutes, 17 seconds population to be covered through uh PNG domestic area remaining 23 they still believe that alternate fear largely in 1:07:26 1 hour, 7 minutes, 26 seconds LPG they will be catering in future also because see LPG cylinder nobody can beat 1:07:33 1 hour, 7 minutes, 33 seconds the versatility of LPG cylinders even even even a Dhabala or small you know 1:07:40 1 hour, 7 minutes, 40 seconds the vendor on the roadside they can use LPG whereas The uh the CNG or PNG connection 1:07:47 1 hour, 7 minutes, 47 seconds requires a very firm line uh at least 1 and a half m the ground to be placed and 1:07:54 1 hour, 7 minutes, 54 seconds uh no apparent line should be visible which is not a steel inside you can have 1:08:00 1 hour, 8 minutes the MDP line you know so such is the strict safety norms etc for reaching 1:08:08 1 hour, 8 minutes, 8 seconds each and every consumer level so the profitability of newer companies 1:08:15 1 hour, 8 minutes, 15 seconds will take time to match the older ones the older ones. So uh but still you know with the meticulous 1:08:24 1 hour, 8 minutes, 24 seconds private sector people entering into the CGD sector uh the operational efficiency is much better and uh we are uh where we 1:08:32 1 hour, 8 minutes, 32 seconds lack secondly is that the volume uh aspect of it. So bigger companies can have sourcing they have got volume uh 1:08:41 1 hour, 8 minutes, 41 seconds bargaining power through their higher volume rather they can have uh the RLNG recified liqufied LNG from imported 1:08:50 1 hour, 8 minutes, 50 seconds sources also in bulk. So such benefits they have uh still through operational efficiency the uh latter part of the uh 1:09:00 1 hour, 9 minutes the the licensed CGD companies are in a position to somehow catch up to them and match them on operational efficiency 1:09:07 1 hour, 9 minutes, 7 seconds part of it. So this is what uh broadly I can explain about the CG sectors um profitability going forward and what are 1:09:16 1 hour, 9 minutes, 16 seconds the challenges which we face face these are those which are established older company. 1:09:23 1 hour, 9 minutes, 23 seconds Okay sir. Uh understood. Uh just to addition to my earlier question. I have observed that in your uh shareholders 1:09:30 1 hour, 9 minutes, 30 seconds list there is a shareholder named Suzuka gas. Is Suzuka gas supporting IRM in any kind of LG sourcing or technical expertise in any way? 1:09:42 1 hour, 9 minutes, 42 seconds Uh they have the portfolio ready with them but problem is that they are already a CGD company in Japan in a city 1:09:51 1 hour, 9 minutes, 51 seconds called Sujika itself. That's why C Sujika gas is the name of them but they have some portfolio ready portfolio with 1:09:58 1 hour, 9 minutes, 58 seconds them but other than us they have not developed a marketing infra in the country uh so entire sourcing we cannot 1:10:07 1 hour, 10 minutes, 7 seconds uh do from them because ship minimum size of ship which is required is of 40,000 mms uh in one go so that that we 1:10:15 1 hour, 10 minutes, 15 seconds cannot buy from them. Uh so uh we have to rely upon uh we have to rely upon uh 1:10:23 1 hour, 10 minutes, 23 seconds the other sources only they have no marketing infra established in the country. So they cannot have uh any sort 1:10:30 1 hour, 10 minutes, 30 seconds of sourcing benefit to us. Secondly they uh they themselves are CGD company. So as such uh nothing much more than what 1:10:39 1 hour, 10 minutes, 39 seconds is the participation of them is there in on the equity side as a investor. uh the technical expertise also inhouse uh 1:10:48 1 hour, 10 minutes, 48 seconds within the country we have better ones uh than to take any helper from them. 1:10:53 1 hour, 10 minutes, 53 seconds Although they we keep interacting so good uh practices we share with them they also share with us but not very 1:11:02 1 hour, 11 minutes, 2 seconds significant contribution is coming from them. 1:11:06 1 hour, 11 minutes, 6 seconds Okay sir. Uh my next question is uh Hyram Energy has invested in uh two companies uh Vinuka polymers and uh farm 1:11:15 1 hour, 11 minutes, 15 seconds gas. Uh can you explain the strategic and financial contribution of these investments? 1:11:22 1 hour, 11 minutes, 22 seconds See both are backward integration strategy for IRM industry IRM energy because uh uh farm gas is in the 1:11:30 1 hour, 11 minutes, 30 seconds business of CBG uh production. So uh they have a plant in Kana uh and we are 1:11:40 1 hour, 11 minutes, 40 seconds buying gas from them uh through that uh satak scheme that CBG CNG 1:11:46 1 hour, 11 minutes, 46 seconds synchronization scheme through Gale. So they are doing the business of CG in Punjab and uh the Venuka polymers is in 1:11:56 1 hour, 11 minutes, 56 seconds the primarily was in the business of uh making the CGD distribution these MDP 1:12:03 1 hour, 12 minutes, 3 seconds pipes uh P 80 and P2 categories are there. So they they are very helpful in 1:12:12 1 hour, 12 minutes, 12 seconds supplying pipes at a very reasonable cost to all the other industries. IRM is also buying from them at arms length prices. Secondly, they have also 1:12:21 1 hour, 12 minutes, 21 seconds diversified VUA polymers into the irrigation pipe business also. Also, the also the uh the power sector wherein 1:12:30 1 hour, 12 minutes, 30 seconds overhead power lines are getting undergrounded. So the these cables are getting under a condute. So that condute 1:12:38 1 hour, 12 minutes, 38 seconds they are manufacturing. So these three kind of business they are having vanoga poly as a 50/50 joint venture company 1:12:45 1 hour, 12 minutes, 45 seconds with us. Secondly far gas we have got 33% stake as of now. Early it was 50% currently 33%. And uh these two 1:12:54 1 hour, 12 minutes, 54 seconds companies are backward integration support to us. 1:12:57 1 hour, 12 minutes, 57 seconds Sir are they profitable or still uh development? 1:13:02 1 hour, 13 minutes, 2 seconds Uh farm gas had been doing some business. Initially uh they faced certain challenges in the farm farmer 1:13:11 1 hour, 13 minutes, 11 seconds agitation and all that last year. So there there were slight uh but they are cash positive. Uh only that some issues 1:13:19 1 hour, 13 minutes, 19 seconds were there in aggregation side but in the current six months or rather you can say five four five months now they have they are very very profitable currently. 1:13:29 1 hour, 13 minutes, 29 seconds You understand the kind of gas shortage which has happened. So government is also encouraging CBG. Venuka polymer had 1:13:37 1 hour, 13 minutes, 37 seconds been consistently uh almost like break even but going forward since they have diversified into 1:13:43 1 hour, 13 minutes, 43 seconds the irrigation side also and uh uh and and this the power sector side also. So 1:13:50 1 hour, 13 minutes, 50 seconds next year we are expecting their uh turnover to almost double or be more than two and a half times more than what 1:13:58 1 hour, 13 minutes, 58 seconds they have performed this year. So that business uh should also support us in consolidated uh reflections. 1:14:07 1 hour, 14 minutes, 7 seconds Okay. Uh understood. Uh with increasing EV adoption sir uh especially in auto rich how do you see the uh this uh 1:14:16 1 hour, 14 minutes, 16 seconds impacting long-term CGD demand CG demand and uh I want to know which vehicle segment currently contributing the highest CG volumes. 1:14:26 1 hour, 14 minutes, 26 seconds You can say that uh taxis and other commercial smaller vehicles are contributing the maximum ones and uh 1:14:34 1 hour, 14 minutes, 34 seconds three segment is is a debate only that how far the electrical conversion will be impacting the CNG or even the petrol 1:14:43 1 hour, 14 minutes, 43 seconds diesel side. So my marketing head will explain further. 1:14:48 1 hour, 14 minutes, 48 seconds Hi. So uh see if we compare I mean EV penetration in RGS it is at very early 1:14:57 1 hour, 14 minutes, 57 seconds level EV penetration is not there in any of the segments. So be it passenger vehicles or be it auto three-wheer 1:15:04 1 hour, 15 minutes, 4 seconds segment it is to some extent there a threat for uh Tamil Nadu namak and 1:15:10 1 hour, 15 minutes, 10 seconds tricky but in other G EV penetration is very negligible and it is not there is not much traction in that so you can 1:15:18 1 hour, 15 minutes, 18 seconds maybe compare the trends of uh uh vehicle addition on month-on-month basis EV edition is negligible in RGs 1:15:28 1 hour, 15 minutes, 28 seconds okay uh uh coming to the financial side what is the peak debt level you are expecting in next five years 1:15:39 1 hour, 15 minutes, 39 seconds see uh right now uh at the end of March we are around 49 crores of uh term loans so looking at the capex this year and we 1:15:48 1 hour, 15 minutes, 48 seconds have a 45 crores uh term loan uh sanctioned uh so peak debt will be in 1:15:55 1 hour, 15 minutes, 55 seconds this range only 70 to 80 crores for this financial Okay. And uh one more thing uh in your 1:16:02 1 hour, 16 minutes, 2 seconds cash flow statement I have observed that there are large mutual fund transactions around uh 7,000 uh 700 cr something. 1:16:11 1 hour, 16 minutes, 11 seconds Could you explain the treasury strategy behind these movements? 1:16:15 1 hour, 16 minutes, 15 seconds So we have a board approved uh treasury policy wherein we park liquid fund into 1:16:23 1 hour, 16 minutes, 23 seconds liquid funds and overnight funds based on our required fund requirements. So the are those are the movements of mutual funds in and out uh depending on our fund planning. 1:16:34 1 hour, 16 minutes, 34 seconds Uh then are they contributing anything to our uh quarterly profits or something? 1:16:40 1 hour, 16 minutes, 40 seconds Yes. Yes. So uh they are contributing to the other income side of the Okay. In the current quarter how much uh 1:16:48 1 hour, 16 minutes, 48 seconds profit uh you have received from this mutual fund investment? two around two crores. 1:16:57 1 hour, 16 minutes, 57 seconds Okay. Okay. 1:17:00 1 hour, 17 minutes Expect the dealers to deposit the proceeds you know uh the following day like you know 6:00 to 6:00 a.m. 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. we are doing the 1:17:09 1 hour, 17 minutes, 9 seconds metering and then uh we want our all dealers to deposit their proceeds uh net 1:17:15 1 hour, 17 minutes, 15 seconds of their commission back to us by 1:00 every day. So what happens next baring aside the Saturday, Sundays and all that 1:17:23 1 hour, 17 minutes, 23 seconds or the bank holiday we are collecting all the proceeds and trying to park it on even overnight basis or more than that uh when we are cash flow 1:17:32 1 hour, 17 minutes, 32 seconds requirement is there through our efficient deployment in the mutual funds or overnight debt funds uh we are earning this kind of uh margins it 1:17:41 1 hour, 17 minutes, 41 seconds margin which this outre 1:17:47 1 hour, 17 minutes, 47 seconds this uh uh for uh Q4 if you see it is around 68 uh 68 lakhs but 1:17:56 1 hour, 17 minutes, 56 seconds okay okay sir understood okay sir thank you thank you so much thank you very much 1:18:04 1 hour, 18 minutes, 4 seconds thank you sir in the interest of time that will be the last question for the day now I hand over the floor to the management for the closing comments 1:18:15 1 hour, 18 minutes, 15 seconds so thank you very much uh all the participants and and and uh EY uh who 1:18:23 1 hour, 18 minutes, 23 seconds has organized this uh earning call. Uh we thank everyone on behalf of the management of IRM Energy Limited. We 1:18:30 1 hour, 18 minutes, 30 seconds thank you all for joining us on the post earning call today. We hope uh we have been able to address majority of your 1:18:38 1 hour, 18 minutes, 38 seconds queries clearly and candidly. uh you may reach out to me or uh the company through our company secretary on our 1:18:47 1 hour, 18 minutes, 47 seconds portal on our investor relation even is helping us a lot for any further queries which you may have or which were 1:18:56 1 hour, 18 minutes, 56 seconds non-conclusive today and we will be uh sincerely answering uh all the questions and we'll connect you even the offline 1:19:04 1 hour, 19 minutes, 4 seconds also. Uh thank you very very much. Now we request moderators to close the call and thank you once again for joining us 1:19:12 1 hour, 19 minutes, 12 seconds on our uh the earning call today. Thank you very very much sir. 1:19:16 1 hour, 19 minutes, 16 seconds Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Dusabas conference call 1:19:23 1 hour, 19 minutes, 23 seconds service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you and have a pleasant evening.