Huhtamaki India Ltd — Q3 FY26

Huhtamaki India Ltd Q3 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ75Ya--3aU Published: 3 months ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Hutamaki India Limited Q4C25 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI 0:10 10 seconds Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participants line will be in the listenon mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions 0:18 18 seconds after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on 0:26 26 seconds your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit 0:33 33 seconds Mishra from ICICI securities. Thank you and over to you sir. 0:39 39 seconds Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining on Hutamaki India Limited Q4C25 results conference call. We have 0:47 47 seconds Hutamaki India management on call represented by Mr. Kamill Tana director. 0:53 53 seconds I would now like to invite Kamill S to initiate with opening remarks post which we will have a Q&A session. Thank you and over to you sir. 1:01 1 minute, 1 second Thank you Mo and thank you Ikra. I hope everyone can hear me. Uh first of all good afternoon everyone since this is 1:09 1 minute, 9 seconds also our first call for the year. Let me start by wishing everyone on the call a happy and prosperous new year. Uh I hope 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds this year brings you good health, happiness and success to you as well as your loved ones. Um as Mo said u I think 1:26 1 minute, 26 seconds before we get into financials I also wanted to take some time to introduce myself. Uh I've joined this company uh 1:33 1 minute, 33 seconds on 15th of January. So very fast completing one month uh in the role. Uh my background is that uh I'm an 1:41 1 minute, 41 seconds engineer. I have a dual degree from Bits Bilani. I'm also an MBA uh from Wharton, USA and a six sigma black belt. In the 1:50 1 minute, 50 seconds past three decades uh that I've been working, I've been fortunate to have served in many senior positions uh across the global packaging and 1:59 1 minute, 59 seconds industrial companies for example Johnson Controls, Ingressoland, MCOR, Asentra and most recently uh Leinx Australia. 2:10 2 minutes, 10 seconds uh when I say uh 15 uh January was my first day at work uh it's not entirely true because I also spent uh good amount 2:19 2 minutes, 19 seconds of last 6 months uh working with Hutamaki India as an external consultant where my focus has been to uh improve uh 2:28 2 minutes, 28 seconds profitability through operational efficiency and cost u structural reduction. Uh I'm also very fortunate uh 2:37 2 minutes, 37 seconds to have contributed to strong performance in many global and uh regional businesses. I've worked in UK, 2:44 2 minutes, 44 seconds Australia, India and Singapore. I look forward to bringing this international perspective to our company and to 2:51 2 minutes, 51 seconds working with all of you as we embark on our next phase of growth. 2:57 2 minutes, 57 seconds as is uh the customary on on these calls. I will walk you through the company's financial performance for the quarter uh that just ended and also year 3:06 3 minutes, 6 seconds 225 along with some insight into how we fared over the last 12 months. And after 3:13 3 minutes, 13 seconds I finish, I'll be happy to take calls from all of you. 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds So I'm going to begin with uh uh describing to you uh our operational and financial highlights for the quarter 4 3:25 3 minutes, 25 seconds as well as the full year 2025. As as you would have seen from the announcements uh that we recently posted um our 3:33 3 minutes, 33 seconds volumes were largely steady uh or flat compared to previous quarter uh but they 3:41 3 minutes, 41 seconds decreased slightly year on year. uh this is also reflected in our 12 months ended December 2025 3:48 3 minutes, 48 seconds with volumes lower than the same period in 2024. 3:53 3 minutes, 53 seconds Uh net sales in quarter 4 were at rupees 6 billion uh which were more or less 4:01 4 minutes, 1 second flat versus previous quarter and yearon year. 4:06 4 minutes, 6 seconds uh for the full year December 2025 our net sales were at 23.9 billion which 4:14 4 minutes, 14 seconds actually represent around 2.5% decline from 24.5 billion we did in the same period last year however uh as you would 4:23 4 minutes, 23 seconds have noticed our profit before tax or PBT for the quarter was significantly 4:29 4 minutes, 29 seconds higher so we had uh 410 million uh profit in Q4 versus 152 million that we 4:39 4 minutes, 39 seconds did in the previous year in the same quarter. Uh compared to quarter 3 uh we were down by 16% but then quarter 3 for 4:48 4 minutes, 48 seconds us was very exceptional uh uh quarter as well. 4:53 4 minutes, 53 seconds uh for the year ended 2025 PBT uh before the exceptional items reached 1.57 billion which reflects a strong 83% 5:03 5 minutes, 3 seconds growth over 860 million we did uh in the corresponding period of 2024. 5:11 5 minutes, 11 seconds So if I can summarize uh all this uh for 2025 um in terms of financial performance uh 5:19 5 minutes, 19 seconds our overall volumes were lower compared to last year. However, we had significant uh profit uh increase and 5:28 5 minutes, 28 seconds that is due to our strategic decisions where we focused on where we played. uh we optimized our product and customer 5:36 5 minutes, 36 seconds fake makes and we showed strong results also because of steady improvement we did in the operational efficiencies and and and cost structure. 5:47 5 minutes, 47 seconds We are focusing on building highquality business and refining our product and customer portfolio to support profitable growth. On the manufacturing front, our 5:57 5 minutes, 57 seconds long-term strategy to implement worldclass operations are paying off. We are seeing real improvements across our 6:04 6 minutes, 4 seconds sites with better efficiency, reduced waste and tighter control o of overheads. We have also benefited from 6:12 6 minutes, 12 seconds global expertise of Utamaki's plants helping us to enhance our process further. The results speaks for 6:20 6 minutes, 20 seconds themselves and this process is thanks to dedication also due to uh our excellent team uh that that work with with us day in and day out. 6:31 6 minutes, 31 seconds On the regulatory front u you know you you would have seen uh notification on labor code which came out on 21st of 6:38 6 minutes, 38 seconds November uh last year uh which is actually a very important development. 6:43 6 minutes, 43 seconds I'm I'm actually pleased to tell you that uh we actually took some proactive actions in in recent past uh 6:52 6 minutes, 52 seconds particularly in in relation to employee liabilities. Um so so we expect uh not a very significant impact to our business 7:01 7 minutes, 1 second moving forward. Um moving to other financial aspects uh financial costs remain stable uh through 2025 which are consistent with underlying debt levels. 7:13 7 minutes, 13 seconds Uh there is a provision made to interest towards uh indirect tax matters uh but but uh we are pretty happy to say that they are in line with what we expected. 7:25 7 minutes, 25 seconds Surplus cash uh was deployed into bank deposits and mutual funds generating an 7:31 7 minutes, 31 seconds average yield uh which exceeded 6% uh uh during the year. 7:38 7 minutes, 38 seconds While the net profit net profit for the quarter uh after exceptional income and tax stood at 303 million rupees compared 7:46 7 minutes, 46 seconds to 117 million in quarter 4 2024 and 360 million in quarter 3 2025. 7:55 7 minutes, 55 seconds EPS for the quarter was at 4 rupees and and two pesa. 8:01 8 minutes, 1 second For the year ended 2025, uh our net profit after exceptional income and tax was uh one 1.182 8:11 8 minutes, 11 seconds billion or 1182 million which was up from 880 million in the same period which I which I also made a remark 8:19 8 minutes, 19 seconds earlier uh that we had a pretty significant increase in profit for the year. Uh it is also important to note 8:26 8 minutes, 26 seconds that 2024 figures included uh exceptional income uh from the sale of two land parcels in Tane which itself 8:35 8 minutes, 35 seconds amounted to 237 million rupees. So so our increase was even more significant if you if you took those exceptional items away. 8:45 8 minutes, 45 seconds Um, regarding the debt and liquidity position, uh, the the ratio remains stable, uh, with the external commercial 8:53 8 minutes, 53 seconds borrowings or ECP of 1 billion rupees being the only debt we have on the books. Uh, liquidity continues to be 9:00 9 minutes strong. Uh, and we are also supported by substantial unutilized credit lines and minimal exposure. 9:10 9 minutes, 10 seconds uh the working capital position remains strong uh and actually shows improvement over prior year. 9:18 9 minutes, 18 seconds Regarding the sustainability uh we made uh some significant progress there as well. So not just on profit but also on 9:25 9 minutes, 25 seconds sustainability. Starting with safety you would have seen we made significant uh reduction in our recordable in incidents 9:33 9 minutes, 33 seconds and lost time injuries both approximately 50% decrease over prior 9:39 9 minutes, 39 seconds year. Uh in fact we had uh uh close to five months uh throughout our operation 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds where we had zero accident or accident accidentfree months which was actually in itself a m major milestone in our 9:55 9 minutes, 55 seconds workplace safety commitment. Uh we will continue to uh to to work more on that 10:02 10 minutes, 2 seconds and our aim is to have zero accidents in all our sites. 10:07 10 minutes, 7 seconds On the climate front, um our targets for scope and one and two were verified by science-based targets initiative uh 10:16 10 minutes, 16 seconds aligned with our 1.5° C goal. Uh and our scope 3 target remains well below 2° C uh target. 10:25 10 minutes, 25 seconds Um we have a a a renewal electricity project undergoing at the moment uh which is progressing steadily and we 10:34 10 minutes, 34 seconds hope that we have the energy generation from this project in the second quarter of this year. 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds We are putting much more effort into our water management efforts. um sites including Kapoori, Rudraur and Silvasa 10:51 10 minutes, 51 seconds have achieved zero liquid discharge which is in itself is very significant again eliminating uh liquid waste um uh 11:00 11 minutes which we are doing through on-site treatment and reuse again underlying our commitment to sustainable water practices. 11:10 11 minutes, 10 seconds Finally, our work on product sustainability continues. In quarter 4 last year, we reduced solvent 11:17 11 minutes, 17 seconds consumption across all our sites, which made uh improvement on our worker uh 11:24 11 minutes, 24 seconds environment and safety while also reducing uh the emissions. Again, demonstrating our dedication to both people and the environment. 11:35 11 minutes, 35 seconds Before I close, I want to sincerely thank all our stakeholders on this call and in general for the trust and support you have shown to Utamaki and its 11:44 11 minutes, 44 seconds leadership over the years. I'm honored to take on responsibility of leading Utamaki India into its next phase of 11:51 11 minutes, 51 seconds growth and I'm committed to building on strong foundation which is already in place which is demonstrated in our 11:58 11 minutes, 58 seconds results for the prior year. Thank you very much. 12:05 12 minutes, 5 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone 12:13 12 minutes, 13 seconds telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds question and you are also requested to limit your questions to two per participants. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. 12:39 12 minutes, 39 seconds Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one at this time. 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds To ask a question, please press star and one. Now 12:59 12 minutes, 59 seconds anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. The first question is from the line of retardia from Giri capital. 13:09 13 minutes, 9 seconds Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi thanks for the opportunity. 13:13 13 minutes, 13 seconds Researchers wanted to know about uh what sort of capacity utilization we are working on and uh I believe uh since few 13:20 13 minutes, 20 seconds years there is no volume growth. So uh if you can give some idea uh how it would be for next two three years. 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you for the question. Um I think I think why you asking capacity utilization question is to assertain whether we have capacity to for growth. 13:42 13 minutes, 42 seconds Yeah. Um so I I think I can tell you definitely uh couple of things that we have done uh recently when I talked 13:50 13 minutes, 50 seconds about operational efficiency obviously you know when you are more efficient you make more room for growth. Um so so that 13:57 13 minutes, 57 seconds plus inherent capacity we have in the system means that we have enough room to grow. Uh as you know we also did a 14:05 14 minutes, 5 seconds optimization um exercise couple of years ago and we are pretty certain that for next few years we'll be okay in terms of capacity utilization. 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds Yeah. Reason for my asking about the capacity utilization is uh uh though there is a improvement on P&L side but 14:25 14 minutes, 25 seconds uh if I see on balance sheet uh uh your return ratios remain uh quite inferior. 14:32 14 minutes, 32 seconds it's still in single digit. So what are your thoughts about it and uh where do we see uh that going forward? 14:40 14 minutes, 40 seconds Yeah, I I won't say our return are are inferior. I I think if you compare uh what I have seen in the market and my 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds experience from other uh places that I've worked, I think the return is pretty pretty okay. Uh and and in fact, 14:56 14 minutes, 56 seconds if I compare with some of our competitors in the industry, they're pretty good. Uh having said that you know we can always improve uh and that 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds would be our definitely focus as we move forward. 15:12 15 minutes, 12 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raja Kumar Vinatan from RK Investments. Please go ahead. 15:21 15 minutes, 21 seconds Yeah, good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Yes, Raj. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. 15:29 15 minutes, 29 seconds Uh sir uh uh sorry about the background noise uh please uh bear with me. Uh sir just a few questions. So the first one 15:37 15 minutes, 37 seconds is uh I just want to know how sustainable are your margins? Uh and uh that is my first question and second 15:44 15 minutes, 44 seconds thing uh when do you think your uh topline growth will start playing out and third one is on the uh US India 15:54 15 minutes, 54 seconds trade deal? So any upsides for Utamati you know these are the three questions for okay so firstly Rajaman I thought you 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds were allowed only two questions but I'll answer your three questions so how many what was the how how our margins will 16:09 16 minutes, 9 seconds play out in the future right yeah that's correct and you talked about topline growth 16:17 16 minutes, 17 seconds right and the third one was third one was on the US India trade deal uh How much the Yeah. 16:26 16 minutes, 26 seconds Okay. Okay. Great. Okay. So, how sustainable are margins moving forward? 16:32 16 minutes, 32 seconds So, I think what I can I can say is because I personally worked on this last year. Um, we made uh changes to the way 16:41 16 minutes, 41 seconds we work uh both in the factories and in our go go to customer strategies which 16:48 16 minutes, 48 seconds are not one-time. these are sustainable and and the idea was that any changes we do are going to be worth it in the 16:56 16 minutes, 56 seconds future. Now one thing we do not know is there are a lot of things that happen which are not under our control. For example, political 17:04 17 minutes, 4 seconds taxation you mentioned uh and and and volume in the market etc. So so that that varies and that actually affects the way you uh do your business as well. 17:14 17 minutes, 14 seconds So all I can say is from our side we feel the changes we have made operationally and in terms of going to 17:21 17 minutes, 21 seconds market are quite sustainable. Um and and we'll see how we go and I'll be happy to report uh that again in our next call. 17:31 17 minutes, 31 seconds Uh on the topline growth uh again you know my answer would be similar uh because there are so many things that we are dependent on for example market 17:39 17 minutes, 39 seconds growth uh where which segments grow and which don't uh how our competitors move etc etc and also regulations sometimes 17:48 17 minutes, 48 seconds because you know there are restrictions or otherwise on on where and how we can play uh so that's something we're going 17:55 17 minutes, 55 seconds to watch out for uh but but I can tell you uh number one priority that we have uh in our business not just in Hutamaki 18:04 18 minutes, 4 seconds India but also Hutamaki globally is is to uh to drive profitable growth in future. 18:11 18 minutes, 11 seconds Your third question on US India trade uh tax deal uh that you mentioned um I 18:18 18 minutes, 18 seconds don't know fortunately or unfortunately our our pie of that you know our total impact is only 1% of our sales. So if if 18:27 18 minutes, 27 seconds we say our 24 thou 100 uh cr uh are top line only 1% of that business is through 18:35 18 minutes, 35 seconds us. Um we hope we can increase it with with this uh trade deal. Uh but but 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds we'll see how it goes but uh I think for us it's it's a very small impact if I can say that. 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds Okay. Thank you so much. s just uh on this margin part there are no one-offs in this quarter right that uh I mean we 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds can expect these margins to sustain go forward no not at all we had a significant oneoff last year as I mentioned earlier 19:06 19 minutes, 6 seconds but not this year okay thank you sir thank you the next question is from the 19:15 19 minutes, 15 seconds line of sha from ripple wave equity please go ahead 19:22 19 minutes, 22 seconds thank you for this opportunity and uh you know hi Kamal it's first call so uh 19:29 19 minutes, 29 seconds you know very nice talking to the the platform to you uh thank you first first question is I believe uh 19:38 19 minutes, 38 seconds just wanted a confirmation you know per the annual report of 2024 uh the 100 kcb from the parent uh was 19:47 19 minutes, 47 seconds supposed to be uh repaid by 7th of uh February this here. So I suppose that uh 19:55 19 minutes, 55 seconds transaction would have gone through which would significantly uh you know decrease the balance sheet. 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah. So well this is before my time. Uh can you hear me? Okay people. Yeah I can hear you loud and clear. 20:11 20 minutes, 11 seconds All right. Okay. So uh we had uh ECP of so 100 crores like you say 1,000 million 20:20 20 minutes, 20 seconds in quarter 3 uh last year. Uh the balance of that is actually scheduled to 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds be paid in 2027 uh June 2027 because that's that's in line with the regulation I I believe right so that's 20:34 20 minutes, 34 seconds what we are following at the moment. Uh so hopefully no I thought the annual report mentioned it was scheduled to be repaid in February of 2026. 20:46 20 minutes, 46 seconds So that there's some confusion probably Q3 2024 is when it was supposed to be. 20:55 20 minutes, 55 seconds No the annual report mentions that. So I'm just picking up from the annual report. Okay, Viple, why don't I check that and and maybe if you can contact 21:05 21 minutes, 5 seconds our investor relations again, you know, at the end of the day, it's pretty insignificant. You know, it's not it's not really material uh in 21:14 21 minutes, 14 seconds terms of the business size of business we have. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Second question, you know, on a net cash basis, uh you know, we have now significant 21:22 21 minutes, 22 seconds cash uh lying uh with the company and obviously it continues to uh be upgradive uh you know as the years and quarters go by. 21:33 21 minutes, 33 seconds Uh Utamaki India you know uh has been historically been uh uh an acquisitive company in terms of uh M&A is concerned. 21:46 21 minutes, 46 seconds just was curious to uh uh understand uh your thoughts uh you know on on this piece. 21:55 21 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Yeah. I mean well firstly uh thank you for noticing that. I mean it's it's it's much better to be cashri than 22:02 22 minutes, 2 seconds otherwise isn't it? Um so I think I think we we would assess that. I mean I've been only on the job for 2 minutes. 22:10 22 minutes, 10 seconds I mean one month or so. So I I haven't assessed that. We will take a view on that as we go. At this moment, uh our 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds focus is is organic. Uh and that's what we are focusing on. Uh if some opportunities come, we'll never say no. 22:27 22 minutes, 27 seconds But at the moment, that's not our focus. 22:29 22 minutes, 29 seconds Now, that also means what we do with this cash moving forward, right? Um we will assess as we go through the year. 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds U we are also assessing things like what kind of investments we need to do on on our operations. um at the moment 22:45 22 minutes, 45 seconds although I don't see any significant capex for this year but but we'll see and if the opportunity comes we'll do 22:53 22 minutes, 53 seconds either organic or inorganic investment but there there are I think it's too early for us to commit on anything 22:59 22 minutes, 59 seconds fair enough one last uh piece you know although uh you've just mentioned and I appreciate the fact that you're just new 23:06 23 minutes, 6 seconds into the job but uh last year you know uh on one of the calls uh you know I had made this specific 23:13 23 minutes, 13 seconds uh reference and also in the AGM I had put that uh uh before the independent directors as well. If you compare the uh 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds flexible uh packaging margins which your parent reports uh visav you know what we 23:29 23 minutes, 29 seconds report here uh you know because in India it's the listed company is only flexible packaging our margins are pretty pretty 23:38 23 minutes, 38 seconds lower than what uh what the parent reports and probably one of the reasons for that was the high very high I would 23:47 23 minutes, 47 seconds say uh information techn technology cost which uh you know which we which we pay to the parent you know uh it's quite a 23:55 23 minutes, 55 seconds dichotomy India being a very high software services nation uh we still have to bear you know such high 24:02 24 minutes, 2 seconds information technology costs which uh you know which are as as huge as uh our evida sometimes uh you know in a 24:10 24 minutes, 10 seconds particular quarter so I would appreciate uh you know uh you you you putting your uh you know 24:18 24 minutes, 18 seconds hands on that as well and probably negotiate with the parents because uh ultimately uh you know uh uh time and 24:27 24 minutes, 27 seconds again this will come up uh uh for the minority shareholders as well and we've been a shareholder for long uh you know in Hutamaki and we really like the 24:36 24 minutes, 36 seconds company we really excited by the space uh which uh it is uh in and the growth 24:43 24 minutes, 43 seconds potential where uh you guys fit in. uh it's just that uh you know the sheer 24:49 24 minutes, 49 seconds number of uh amount uh of this which is paid to the parent and which hits our 24:56 24 minutes, 56 seconds P&L uh obviously is uh is impactful. So would appreciate if you can also uh you 25:03 25 minutes, 3 seconds know probably next time around uh you know have some thoughts on that. Sure. 25:10 25 minutes, 10 seconds actually actually maybe I will elaborate on that as well because I I I I ever since I've joined I'm getting these 25:18 25 minutes, 18 seconds questions as well. So I'll I'll tell you a bit about my experience but also tell you a bit about the differences I see uh 25:26 25 minutes, 26 seconds flexible market in India versus overseas. Yeah. Um one thing I can tell you uh the India 25:35 25 minutes, 35 seconds market just for SMCG or or packaging industry is so much more competitive compared to anywhere else in the world. 25:43 25 minutes, 43 seconds I mean you know what kind of uh you know products you see in the market uh from from our customers the price points they 25:50 25 minutes, 50 seconds have etc. So obviously when they are catering to those kind of consumers u there's also pressure on us to kind of 25:58 25 minutes, 58 seconds be very very competitive. So I think if you're comparing margins India versus overseas, there's a significant uh 26:06 26 minutes, 6 seconds difference in in what they do. Now obviously our company does more than flexible overseas. So so I think it's 26:14 26 minutes, 14 seconds hard to compare uh product by product u and because of geography how how that moves. Yeah. 26:22 26 minutes, 22 seconds Your second question on the charge um from from group etc. I think that's that's what you are referring to you 26:30 26 minutes, 30 seconds know I think so so I'll tell you by my experience in my previous company when I was in UK um 26:37 26 minutes, 37 seconds we we actually looked at uh divesting part of our business and we had a lot of these centralized costs which were 26:45 26 minutes, 45 seconds actually you know given to different divisions. Um after the divestment there 26:51 26 minutes, 51 seconds was a huge uh issue um when you know the independent company actually started uh 26:58 26 minutes, 58 seconds you know running their own business independently because they they realized that the cost structure etc they expected through divestment 27:07 27 minutes, 7 seconds uh was much more than they expected. Um so I think a lot of times we actually underplay 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds uh how much important these charges and these help support that we have you know in our company you know I talked about 27:21 27 minutes, 21 seconds operational efficiency improvement uh IT um systems that we change a and and just 27:28 27 minutes, 28 seconds the innovation part that is so useful for us and and again I'm not saying uh that there's nothing we can do about 27:36 27 minutes, 36 seconds that but but that that is something very important to us uh and uh I I really value that. Yeah. 27:44 27 minutes, 44 seconds Yeah, I mean uh I appreciate you know your comments on that but you know the fact is that uh if you if you circle 27:53 27 minutes, 53 seconds back on calendar year 2024 uh we paid 80 crores you know for the 2 27:59 27 minutes, 59 seconds cr 2,400 cr company you if you you know there are so many multinational companies which listed companies which 28:08 28 minutes, 8 seconds are uh which are there uh frankly haven't seen this kind of uh number visa which is uh in conssonance with the with 28:17 28 minutes, 17 seconds the uh margins which the company makes you know. So the point was that uh it seems a little too high and if someone 28:26 28 minutes, 26 seconds if your team can sort of look at that and probably renegotiate with the parent you know the kind it says it support you 28:34 28 minutes, 34 seconds know one of the reasons why we are paying so high uh would really appreciate that the number itself is so huge I mean annual report for 25 hasn't 28:42 28 minutes, 42 seconds come through so can't really comment on that but uh for 24 you know and the point which we made to uh the chair as 28:50 28 minutes, 50 seconds Well, uh I don't know you know what's come out of that but uh just thought uh just put that across to you as well. 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah, thanks Kaml. Appreciate your appreciate your thoughts. Noted. Yeah, thank you. 29:04 29 minutes, 4 seconds uh ju just I think sorry previous question about the uh ECB uh payment right so I've just got the note here uh 29:12 29 minutes, 12 seconds which is in our annual report which says the first tranche was due for replacement repayment in December 2025 29:22 29 minutes, 22 seconds however this was prepaid in September already and and I think that's where the confusion is coming from so second one is due for June 27 uh Yeah. 29:34 29 minutes, 34 seconds So that is where the fair. Thank you. 29:43 29 minutes, 43 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sunil Jane from Nirmal Bank Securities. Please go ahead. 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah, thanks for this opportunity. Uh so my question relate to uh since you are 29:59 29 minutes, 59 seconds uh uh though new to the company but you were with the company for some time. Uh 30:07 30 minutes, 7 seconds so you must have some strategy planning for the growth and all. We are seeing this company the revenue or turnover 30:14 30 minutes, 14 seconds struggling around 2500 since last 7 8 years and uh definitely we are losing lot of market shares to the other 30:22 30 minutes, 22 seconds player. So is there any goal plan or strategy where you want to at least grow with the market or outperform the market? 30:32 30 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah, thank you Sil. Uh very good question. U now I can't comment on 30:38 30 minutes, 38 seconds previous years. Um but I know for 2025 uh we had a very clear strategy on where 30:47 30 minutes, 47 seconds to go or where to play right uh which meant that there were some businesses that we were doing which were not 30:55 30 minutes, 55 seconds profitable or low profitability or or or segments where we thought we were not 31:02 31 minutes, 2 seconds well positioned. So we cautiously took a decision not to play with them and and probably that is one of the reflections 31:11 31 minutes, 11 seconds which is in our top line right. Uh what I can say moving forward um we have a 31:18 31 minutes, 18 seconds very clear strategy uh business strategy and and there three priorities uh that we are looking for. Uh number one is 31:27 31 minutes, 27 seconds profitable growth. Uh number two is capital discipline. uh so so it's it's it's good to grow but you know we alo 31:35 31 minutes, 35 seconds also have to make sure that we are disciplined in how and where we spend the money and very third thing which I 31:43 31 minutes, 43 seconds have been working on in last few months that I've been associated with the company is on the accountability which 31:50 31 minutes, 50 seconds is how how do we take the ownership of what we do etc um so so we hope uh with 31:57 31 minutes, 57 seconds this thing now you know this is what we can do on our side you know how how it impacts our top line etc. Uh we will see 32:06 32 minutes, 6 seconds how it goes but we can only control these three things and that's what we have focused on. 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah, thanks for that. Uh and second question relate to your uh one of the product you introduced uh was blue loop. 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds Uh how is that performing and uh how you see the future for that and also uh any other new product uh which uh can be 32:29 32 minutes, 29 seconds introduced from the basket of uh the parent to in India so the growth can be accelerated. 32:37 32 minutes, 37 seconds Yes, very good question again. So, Blue Loop, yeah, we've been talking about this for a very long time. Um and well 32:45 32 minutes, 45 seconds personally I can tell you and not personally I think as as a as a company we have very good faith very strong faith uh in in in this product because 32:54 32 minutes, 54 seconds it's actually kind of a gamecher uh in the industry uh because it's sustainable, it's recyclable, 33:02 33 minutes, 2 seconds uh you know it's good for the environment, good for the uh uh good for the uh our customers as well. 33:10 33 minutes, 10 seconds Unfortunately uh what's happened uh over the last couple of years is that the expectation we had uh in terms of growth 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds has not come through uh you know it is either a reflection of maybe a bit of slow adaptation adaptation from our 33:28 33 minutes, 28 seconds customers uh and also maybe you know regulations which have not been very strict uh and our customers have been kind of you know delaying those goalpost 33:37 33 minutes, 37 seconds that they have uh over the years. Having said that uh you know we have been holding steady on on the asset 33:44 33 minutes, 44 seconds utilization. Uh at the moment we are still looking at 25 30% uh which is not bad. Uh but but uh we are also in 33:53 33 minutes, 53 seconds consultation uh with lot of our customers which are going through you know trial phase uh prototyping etc etc. 34:02 34 minutes, 2 seconds As you know, these things take a take a while because it's it's a core marketing uh function of our customers that we're 34:09 34 minutes, 9 seconds looking at. Uh and we are hopeful uh if if not soon in the long run uh we'll be 34:16 34 minutes, 16 seconds very successful in this product. Yeah. 34:24 34 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so actually I mean again you know even the previous uh Kovool asked about the the charge we pay 34:32 34 minutes, 32 seconds for the group actually there are so many products we transfer from overseas every year and there's lot of infrastructure 34:39 34 minutes, 39 seconds knowledge uh resources required to do that we we maintain doing that we keep on doing that every year and and again I although I can't tell you specific 34:48 34 minutes, 48 seconds before we launch them but there's always a pipeline of products that we are introducing every year especially the support from overseas. 34:57 34 minutes, 57 seconds Okay. Great sir. Thank you very much and all the best. Thank you. 35:03 35 minutes, 3 seconds Thank you. The next we have a follow-up question from Rajakumar Van Natan from RK Investment. Please go ahead. 35:14 35 minutes, 14 seconds Uh you can go ahead. 35:15 35 minutes, 15 seconds Hello. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the followup. Uh just two more questions. So so the first one is uh Mr. Kamill. They 35:23 35 minutes, 23 seconds want to know what are the the current tailwinds and headwinds that you are facing and uh and what would be your priorities of the 2026 to kind of 35:32 35 minutes, 32 seconds address or make use of uh the tailwinds. 35:38 35 minutes, 38 seconds Yeah, I'm just I'm just noting down your questions so I don't uh forget them. 35:43 35 minutes, 43 seconds Okay. Um I think tailwinds and headwinds. Um I think maybe I can I can 35:50 35 minutes, 50 seconds say a bit about tailwinds first. Um I guess you know if you look at the market 35:57 35 minutes, 57 seconds potential we have in India. Uh right. Uh as you know now India is uh fourth largest economy in the world. There's a 36:06 36 minutes, 6 seconds organic growth uh which is kind of in the uh in the business in the market. 36:12 36 minutes, 12 seconds So, so good thing for us is that there's a there's a big business uh to be to be aware. Um I guess u the headwinds are 36:22 36 minutes, 22 seconds always around regulations uh or political uh environment you know taxation 36:29 36 minutes, 29 seconds uh government policies, labor codes uh you know all that kind of stuff which are not under control. You know, I think 36:37 36 minutes, 37 seconds I think there are also things like um you know, changing packaging requirements by customers. Uh you know, 36:44 36 minutes, 44 seconds one example I gave uh the question on Blue Loop as well. Although we want to do a lot more work on Blue Loop, but but but we can only do as much as our 36:53 36 minutes, 53 seconds customers uh pull from us uh and as much as I we can educate them on on the um on 36:59 36 minutes, 59 seconds the u value of driving that. So I think I think those would be a couple of big items uh on my mind. Your second 37:08 37 minutes, 8 seconds question on priorities, I think I've said that a couple of times already. 37:12 37 minutes, 12 seconds There are only three priorities. We want to keep it simple. Uh profitable growth, capital discipline and accountability 37:19 37 minutes, 19 seconds and and we'll be driving that uh through 26 as well as in future in near future. 37:26 37 minutes, 26 seconds Okay. So if I can ask one more question uh uh so these on recent senior level changes I see the CEO CFO and the sales 37:35 37 minutes, 35 seconds heads all have kind of left the organization in almost around the same time. So just want to know any specific 37:44 37 minutes, 44 seconds reason why uh such a big exits are happening around the same time. 37:50 37 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah, I I don't think there's like a a systematic approach on on changing CEO, 37:56 37 minutes, 56 seconds CFO, etc., etc. Uh I think I think uh these are um one thing I know is if if 38:04 38 minutes, 4 seconds that didn't change, I won't be here on the call today. So that's a good thing. 38:08 38 minutes, 8 seconds So I'm not complaining about that. Uh I think one thing I know is no person is bigger 38:15 38 minutes, 15 seconds than uh than the company, right? So you know we have a very strong base very strong principles operations in the 38:23 38 minutes, 23 seconds company. Um I do not think it it makes huge difference on how we perform in the 38:29 38 minutes, 29 seconds market. Um and you know uh those principles guide us those visions those 38:36 38 minutes, 36 seconds missions that we have in the company they guide us as we go go forward. Um but but they will remain and and frankly 38:44 38 minutes, 44 seconds you know for us uh we do not know and we don't want to dwell on what happened in the past but what we are focused on is 38:51 38 minutes, 51 seconds is how we do in the future. Again what we said profitable growth, capital discipline and accountability is what we're going to drive going forward. 39:02 39 minutes, 2 seconds Okay. Thank you sir. 39:06 39 minutes, 6 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikram Kotak from Crest Capital Capital Investments LLP. Please go ahead 39:14 39 minutes, 14 seconds and thank you so much for taking my question. Is audible? Yes, absolutely. 39:20 39 minutes, 20 seconds Thank you. Thank you. Kaml, I have a question for you. Uh and all the best for your new strength. uh one question which I have on the consumer side uh 39:28 39 minutes, 28 seconds company the commentary which we hearing in this quarter is that little bit up bit on the volume growth post GST and the and and they're saying that there's 39:37 39 minutes, 37 seconds going to be change in terms of demand side outlook and also looking to increase the headspr that's what we are seeing the consumer company come 39:45 39 minutes, 45 seconds recently do you see that is uh uh that that kind of momentum you can also see because you cater to so many FMCG 39:53 39 minutes, 53 seconds companies so you that kind of momentum you are visualizing last one or one and a half months. 40:00 40 minutes Um yeah absolutely I mean firstly I mean those reports are all over the place. So so so we definitely know how how our uh 40:09 40 minutes, 9 seconds customers are doing especially uh the large and and the regional customers. Uh what you would also see Vikram in that 40:17 40 minutes, 17 seconds is that some of these uh larger FMG FMCG players are actually growing a little slower than what we see from the 40:26 40 minutes, 26 seconds regional customers. So so smaller brands um they are probably doing much better in terms of growth than the larger brands. Right. 40:35 40 minutes, 35 seconds Okay. 40:36 40 minutes, 36 seconds Now our positioning uh in different customer segments um are slightly different. Right. So we are looking at 40:45 40 minutes, 45 seconds where our strengths lie where our value of our product services uh meet them 40:51 40 minutes, 51 seconds better or the other. Um in terms of GST um initiatives etc. um I think we in in 40:59 40 minutes, 59 seconds in what we are seeing as our customers or our products positioning we are not seeing any significant change at this 41:07 41 minutes, 7 seconds stage. Um and uh so so for us it it is not so material at the moment. Again I 41:14 41 minutes, 14 seconds think our focus is to position us even better as we go further and as long as we can focus on where the growth is coming from and that would be our focus. 41:25 41 minutes, 25 seconds Sure. And is it fair to assume you uh mentioned earlier question that the margins which you generated in this calendar year has been uh as no oneoff. 41:34 41 minutes, 34 seconds So is it fair to assume that this near double digit ATA margin can only see improvement if the demand uh on the consumption side recovers or improves? 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds Uh is that is that correct to assume for the current year? 41:47 41 minutes, 47 seconds Uh Vikram as you know we never make any forward-looking statements. So I would not comment that no but but but you said the current year 41:55 41 minutes, 55 seconds margins are uh you know no one-offs right? So it means uh it can be it can be uh so the current current year performance has no one-offs. 42:04 42 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah. 42:05 42 minutes, 5 seconds And uh I can't comment on the future but like I said those three focus areas are no 42:12 42 minutes, 12 seconds and I have one confusion on the slide number seven uh what you mentioned on the cash level. So you are saying uh 2989 million rupees in bank balance and also I to add uh mutual fund into that. 42:24 42 minutes, 24 seconds So total comes around 480 4,800 million or it's total 2989 is total or it 42:32 42 minutes, 32 seconds includes the mutual funds or is it separate from mutual fund on flight seven? So both are separate. 42:39 42 minutes, 39 seconds Okay. So the total balance is close to 480 K or 4,800 million right? That's right. 42:45 42 minutes, 45 seconds Super. Thank you so much. All the best to all of you. Thanks. Thank you. 42:50 42 minutes, 50 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahul from NMV securities. Please go ahead. 42:58 42 minutes, 58 seconds Good evening sir. Am I audible? Yes. 43:03 43 minutes, 3 seconds Uh so my first question is in line with the previous caller only. So previously we have used to deliver the margins of 43:11 43 minutes, 11 seconds uh 9 to 11%. So is it fair enough to assume that we can do it in coming years? 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds That's a question or or I I would repeat the same answer. I can't I can't comment on forwardlooking uh like I said before. 43:27 43 minutes, 27 seconds Uh but then again all I can say is that we're going to continue focusing on those three areas that I mentioned before. 43:36 43 minutes, 36 seconds Okay. And sir, what what would be uh currently market share of Utamaki? 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds Ah so that's that's a very complicated question. So I wish I had a a clear answer. Um you know as you know uh May 43:53 43 minutes, 53 seconds we work in a very fragmented market right? So if you look at our our competitors our customers it's so 44:02 44 minutes, 2 seconds difficult to have a like to like comparison. So so if you look at for example some of our bigger competitors in the market uh you know they may say 44:11 44 minutes, 11 seconds some numbers. So easy thing for us would be okay you know add them up and say what's your market share etc. However, some segments, some spaces that they 44:19 44 minutes, 19 seconds work, we don't work, etc., etc. Uh, so frankly speaking, it would be very difficult for me to actually tell you 44:26 44 minutes, 26 seconds what our market is and you know, increase or decrease in future. Uh, like I said before many times, I can only 44:34 44 minutes, 34 seconds assume uh that uh that we will focus on a profitable growth in future. 44:41 44 minutes, 41 seconds Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. 44:46 44 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Zaki Abbas, an individual investor. Please go ahead. 44:57 44 minutes, 57 seconds Am I audible, sir? Yes. Definitely. 45:02 45 minutes, 2 seconds Yes. Um I think uh congratulations on a very healthy year gone by. Uh sir going back to um uh the question of royalty, 45:11 45 minutes, 11 seconds what would be royalty paid this year to Utamakis in terms of software charges as well as um uh the other payments? That 45:20 45 minutes, 20 seconds is my question number one. Number two is sir, wouldn't the uh a company the pedigree of Udamaki wouldn't be it 45:27 45 minutes, 27 seconds fairer on for the company on towards the minority shareholder that they take out money as dividends rather than these 45:36 45 minutes, 36 seconds kind of payouts sir and I would I would request you and the independent directors to impress upon uh the board to take this forward sir. Thank you. 45:46 45 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you Zaki. Uh so first your question on royalty actually we do not pay any royalty so it's it's zero uh I I 45:53 45 minutes, 53 seconds think uh that is very clear right now that royalty means uh whatever payments towards uh software expenses and cost 46:02 46 minutes, 2 seconds for centralized services sir mean cost charge to the company for the services that's that's 46:09 46 minutes, 9 seconds about like royalty kind of payment sir okay so for me royalty is slightly different so that's if you're a franchisee and you saying to your parent 46:18 46 minutes, 18 seconds company etc. Anyway, I think I think there's a charge and and and I told I get although we can't tell you exactly 46:24 46 minutes, 24 seconds uh what it is but I think this is pretty common you know when you have a large company you take on resources you make 46:31 46 minutes, 31 seconds use of resources which are available to you globally and actually I can even argue that there's economy of scale and you actually benefit from that rather 46:39 46 minutes, 39 seconds than other way yeah um now your second question on dividends for minorities I I 46:47 46 minutes, 47 seconds feel we We we do do pretty good dividends over the years and actually every time we have something special we actually do a better dividend than 46:54 46 minutes, 54 seconds previously. Um and and we will continue doing that uh for for the next couple of years again we will reassess you know 47:03 47 minutes, 3 seconds how we doing and and and if you need to make any changes you I'm sure Zaki you'll be the first one to know. 47:09 47 minutes, 9 seconds Yes. But sir do do put it forward that um I mean it it is a slightly largestish kind of payment whatever I mean 47:18 47 minutes, 18 seconds expert or otherwise it is slightly largest to earn 80 crores you pay 80 crores I mean it's there would be fairer means 47:26 47 minutes, 26 seconds to take out money sir so just just put it forward uh as a request from a minority shareholders thank you sir we'll do noted thank you 47:35 47 minutes, 35 seconds thank you thank you a reminder to all participants if If you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one now. 47:49 47 minutes, 49 seconds To ask a question, please press star and one. Now 47:59 47 minutes, 59 seconds the next question is from the line of Sheetal Sha, an individual investor. Please go ahead. 48:09 48 minutes, 9 seconds You can go ahead. Hello. Am I audible? Yes. Hello sir. Yes sir. 48:17 48 minutes, 17 seconds Yes sir. I just have one question sir. 48:20 48 minutes, 20 seconds Sir what external environment you aspire for our company to grow in volume and revenue sir keeping the margin intake. 48:27 48 minutes, 27 seconds Sir. 48:30 48 minutes, 30 seconds Oh uh I aspire I aspire for many things she tell I want uh our customers to double their volume double their profits 48:39 48 minutes, 39 seconds etc etc I think again you know it's a joke but I think I think I hope this growth that we are seeing in the 48:46 48 minutes, 46 seconds industry grows I hope we have a fair 48:52 48 minutes, 52 seconds well reggulated environment I hope uh that we get more and more um aligned 49:00 49 minutes with the sustainability uh uh targets that that that we see in other parts of the world. Uh I hope uh 49:09 49 minutes, 9 seconds our consumers who are consuming uh our products and our our customers products uh they get better and better products 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds as they as they go. I also hope that they have more buying power in future so we can sell more to them. 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds But sir, that has not happened since last four five years. Do you expect it to happen in the coming future sir? 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds Uh like I said I just hope right I do not know I think it's unfair for me to do expectation otherwise. Uh she there 49:40 49 minutes, 40 seconds are so many things which are not in under our control. uh like I said before all we can control or all we can manage 49:49 49 minutes, 49 seconds is to make sure our priorities are right and our priorities are definitely for future profitable because pool marks to the management on 49:58 49 minutes, 58 seconds margin front sir you have achieved that but to uh take the company to the next goal post 50:06 50 minutes, 6 seconds now sir un unless volume and revenue increase we will remain as we are there only sir that's why I'm asking you sir 50:14 50 minutes, 14 seconds No, Shitel I I noted your point again like I said we want to grow and and and that's our priority. Uh yeah. 50:22 50 minutes, 22 seconds Yes sir. We are investor since long time sir and we expect something to happen to for that sir. All the best to you and your team sir. 50:30 50 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you Shar. 50:34 50 minutes, 34 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Dr. 50:42 50 minutes, 42 seconds Kamill Tanija for closing comments. Over to you sir. 50:46 50 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you Ikra. Thank you uh everyone who joined the call today. I again wish you all the best and I look forward to 50:54 50 minutes, 54 seconds talking to you again soon. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. 50:59 50 minutes, 59 seconds On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.