Gravita India Limited — Q4 FY26

Gravita India Limited Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TloceT0wSlU Published: 5 days ago

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Gravita India Limited 4Q NFI26 earnings conference call hosted by 0:08 8 seconds Antic Stock Broking. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenonly mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions 0:16 16 seconds after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing start then zero on 0:24 24 seconds your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Dalui from Antic Stock Broking. Thank you and over to you sir. 0:32 32 seconds Thank you Rutuja. On behalf of anti stock broking I would like to welcome all the participants on the Q4 and 26 earning call of gravida India. We have with us from the management uh side Mr. 0:45 45 seconds Yogesh Malotra wholetime director and CEO Mr. Sunil Kultime director and CFO Mr. Naven Sharma executive director and 0:53 53 seconds Mr. Anand Chen investor relation on the calls. Without any delay, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Malotra for his opening remarks post which we will 1:00 1 minute open the floor for Q&A. Thank you and over to you sir. 1:04 1 minute, 4 seconds Thank you Mr. Riu. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to our Q4 and FI26 earnings call. I hope you've had an 1:13 1 minute, 13 seconds opportunity to review the earnings presentation and financial results uploaded on the stock exchanges. 1:20 1 minute, 20 seconds I will walk you through the key strategic updates, operational progress and financial performance 1:27 1 minute, 27 seconds followed by Q&A session. I am pleased to share that Gravita ended FY26 on a strong note. Continuing towards its 1:35 1 minute, 35 seconds growth trajectory over FY21 FY26 the company delivered a strong 5-year keer 1:43 1 minute, 43 seconds in revenue Avita and PAT of 25% 49% and 31% respectively 1:50 1 minute, 50 seconds reflecting consistent operational and financial performance despite macroeconomic uncertaintities 1:57 1 minute, 57 seconds and elevated logistic costs arising from geopolitical conflicts. 2:02 2 minutes, 2 seconds Gravita demonstrated resilient performance driven by disciplined risk management, agile execution and strong operational capabilities. 2:12 2 minutes, 12 seconds Before discussing the financial performance in detail, I would like first to highlight the key strategic developments that continue to shape and 2:21 2 minutes, 21 seconds strengthen our growth journey. Our expansion program is progressing broadly as planned with total install capacity 2:29 2 minutes, 29 seconds now at about 4.57 lakh metric ton peranom. We continue to work toward our medium-term target of scaling this up to 2:38 2 minutes, 38 seconds over 8 lakh metric ton peranom by FI29 in line with our focus on building a larger and more diversified recycling platform. 2:48 2 minutes, 48 seconds In Feb 2026, GAVTA expanded its lead recycling capacity at Mundra by 80,300 metric t peranom taking the total 2:57 2 minutes, 57 seconds capacity to 145,00 metric t peranom. The company invested rs 49 cr towards procurement and 3:05 3 minutes, 5 seconds commissioning of the plant funded through internal approvals. The expanded capacity is expected to enhance 3:12 3 minutes, 12 seconds operational efficiencies, optimize logistics and strengthen service capability for key export markets located strategically near the 3:21 3 minutes, 21 seconds port. The Mundra facility continues to offer significant advantages in raw material sourcing and global market 3:27 3 minutes, 27 seconds access, further reinforcing Gravitar's commitment to sustainable growth and the circular economy. 3:35 3 minutes, 35 seconds As part of its diversification strategy, Gravita commissioned a 6,000 metric ton peranom pilot lithium ion battery 3:42 3 minutes, 42 seconds recycling facility at Mundra in January 2026 with an investment of rupes 14 crore 3:49 3 minutes, 49 seconds funded through internal approvals. The facility is expected to scale up gradually as operations stabilize. 3:58 3 minutes, 58 seconds Backed by advanced recycling technology, the plant will ensure safe and sustainable recycling of lithiumion batteries. 4:05 4 minutes, 5 seconds minimize environmental impact and conserve valuable resources while strengthening Gravita's presence 4:12 4 minutes, 12 seconds in the emerging EV battery recycling segment. 4:17 4 minutes, 17 seconds I'm pleased to share that Gravita has entered the corporate segment through the acquisition of 99.44% 44% stake in 4:26 4 minutes, 26 seconds Rashi Metal Industries Limited for rupees 560 crores marking a strategic diversification beyond its core lead business. 4:37 4 minutes, 37 seconds RML operates an integrated manufacturing facility in Gujarat with a capacity of 31,200 metric ten peranom and derives 4:44 4 minutes, 44 seconds 40% of its revenue from exports to key markets including the UAE, USA, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Kenya, Indonesia, Oman and Saudi Arabia. 4:56 4 minutes, 56 seconds The acquisition strengthens Gravita's non-LED portfolio, enhances backward integration capabilities, and unlock 5:04 5 minutes, 4 seconds synergies across procurement, logistics, and sales while expanding its presence in high growth, electrical, automotive, and other valued copper alloy segments. 5:15 5 minutes, 15 seconds The company plans to establish a copper recycling facility in Mandui, Gujarat with an initial capacity of 29,400 5:24 5 minutes, 24 seconds metric ton peranom in phase 1 by incurring a capex of rupees 160 crores approximately. The facility is expected 5:32 5 minutes, 32 seconds to strengthen backward integration, enhance operational efficiency and support margin expansion in the copper segment. 5:40 5 minutes, 40 seconds Commercial operations are expected to commence within the next 12 months. The commissioning of plant will be funded through internal approvals. 5:49 5 minutes, 49 seconds On the investment side, we have earmarked a total capex of rupes 1,700 cr through FI29. Of this rups 815 cr is 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds being deployed towards strengthening and expanding our existing businesses. While the balance will support entry into new recycling verticals such as lithium ion, 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds copper and steel. During FI26, we incurred capex of rupees 372 crores. 6:16 6 minutes, 16 seconds Gravita has been assigned an ESG rating of 65 by NSC sustainability ratings and analytics limited reflecting the 6:24 6 minutes, 24 seconds company's strong commitment towards sustainable business practices, responsible growth and long-term value creation. 6:32 6 minutes, 32 seconds Coming to operational performance in FI26, total volume increased by 5% to 56,28 6:39 6 minutes, 39 seconds metric t peranom. The lead segment reported growth in sales of 7% to to 48,889 6:48 6 minutes, 48 seconds metric t peranom driven by capacity additions and stabilization. 6:53 6 minutes, 53 seconds On a quarterly basis, sales witnessed an increasing trend. 6:58 6 minutes, 58 seconds On the other hand, the aluminium segment witnessed a declining trend in FI26 as well as on a quarterly basis 7:05 7 minutes, 5 seconds primarily due to the inability to hedge and a selective sales strategy. The volumes are expected to pick up once the hedging mechanism is live on MCX. 7:15 7 minutes, 15 seconds Due to tightening government regulations and the ongoing transition from informal to formal sector, the industry is 7:22 7 minutes, 22 seconds undergoing supply chain formalization and enhanced compliance led sourcing in FI26. 7:31 7 minutes, 31 seconds FY26 AITA per ton for lead, plastic and aluminium stood at rupees 22,000 and 43 7:38 7 minutes, 38 seconds crores sorry uh 23 uh rupees 23,43 and 16,43 7:47 7 minutes, 47 seconds and 12,328 respectively. 7:53 7 minutes, 53 seconds Moving to the consolidated financial results for FY26 revenue stood at rupees 4,265 8:00 8 minutes crores reflecting a while or y grow growth of 10% driven by increased capacity utilization and operational efficiencies. 8:10 8 minutes, 10 seconds Valuated products contributed 42% to the overall revenue demonstrating steady progress towards vision 2029 where the 8:18 8 minutes, 18 seconds target is a 50% contribution from such offerings. 8:23 8 minutes, 23 seconds Adjusted consolidated beta for FI26 stood at rupees 452.48 crores reflecting 8:30 8 minutes, 30 seconds a growth of 12% yearonear with margins remaining healthy at 10.6%. 8:37 8 minutes, 37 seconds Consolidated PAT came at rupees 378.80 crores registering a year-on-year growth of 21%. With PAT margins at 8.88%. 8:50 8 minutes, 50 seconds Coming to the consolidated quarterly performance, revenue grew by 13% yearonear and 15% quarteron quarter 8:57 8 minutes, 57 seconds to rupees 1,172.76 crores. Adjusted AITA stood at rupees 9:05 9 minutes, 5 seconds 112.91 crores reflecting a growth of 4% yearonear with margins remaining strong 9:12 9 minutes, 12 seconds at 9.63% 63% plus supported by operating efficiencies and an improved mix. PAD 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds for the quarter came in at rupees 91.88 crores with PAT margins remaining healthy at over 7.83%. 9:29 9 minutes, 29 seconds Gravita is steadily progressing towards its vision 2030 with a clear focus on scaling its core businesses and expanding into emerging segments such as 9:38 9 minutes, 38 seconds copper, lithium ion, rubber and steel recycling. Backed by over three decades of recycling expertise, 14 eco-conscious 9:48 9 minutes, 48 seconds manufacturing facilities, presence across 70 plus countries, strong stakeholder support and robust capacity 9:55 9 minutes, 55 seconds expansion plans, Gravita remains well positioned for sustainable long-term growth driven by diversification, operational efficiencies and value added products. 10:06 10 minutes, 6 seconds That's all from my end. I would now request to open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you and over to you moderator. 10:14 10 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone 10:22 10 minutes, 22 seconds telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a 10:31 10 minutes, 31 seconds question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question assembles. 10:42 10 minutes, 42 seconds The first question is from the line of Akillesh from MK Global. Please go ahead. 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds Yeah. Uh thank you so much for the opportunity. So my first question uh is on the capeex. So our earlier capeex guidance was of around uh 1200 source 10:57 10 minutes, 57 seconds over FA 26 to 28. Now since uh we have done RML acquisition and further expanding our uh you know recycling 11:04 11 minutes, 4 seconds capacity. So uh there what is our plan now? Are you planning to rationalize some of our net capacity expansion or how it is going to be because of this? 11:16 11 minutes, 16 seconds Yeah, earlier capex was not including the copper part which is now being added. So that is one which is uh making us more 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds capex in next four years. So instead of 1200 crores we are planning to have uh bigger capacity in especially in copper. 11:35 11 minutes, 35 seconds Stop you sir. Uh may we request the participant to please mute themselves while management is answering your question. There is a lot of disturbance from your line sir. 11:45 11 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you very much sir. You may please go ahead. 11:47 11 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah. So uh we are adding copper and we as we already mentioned that we recently 11:54 11 minutes, 54 seconds announced a capacity of 30,000 tons in copper which was not there earlier. So we are very bullish on this part because 12:02 12 minutes, 2 seconds we already acquired a company in uh valuated products in copper. So uh now the copper will be the bigger part of 12:09 12 minutes, 9 seconds this capex plan in next four years. So that is the reason we are increasing the capacity expansion and uh capex plans 12:18 12 minutes, 18 seconds for next four years which is from 1200 crores to 1700 crores. 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds Uh but sir because of this capex are uh lead capacity going to get rationalized I mean uh to say is there any change in expansion of lead capacity as such? 12:35 12 minutes, 35 seconds No we we we are not changing the capacity of lead. So lead capacity will be as per plan because earlier the plan 12:43 12 minutes, 43 seconds was to take this capacity to 700,000 tons but now we are in uh taking it to 800,000 tons. So the additional capacity 12:52 12 minutes, 52 seconds is coming up in copper which is taking a more time. 12:59 12 minutes, 59 seconds Uh can we get the commissioning timeline of that 45,000 tons of lead capacity addition which was about to happen in Q4 itself? 13:08 13 minutes, 8 seconds It is going to happen in in this Q1 only in any any estimated timeline like end of 13:16 13 minutes, 16 seconds Q1 or something. So we have already installed the capacities. We are just waiting for the government approvals which will which can come anywhere 13:24 13 minutes, 24 seconds probably in the first half of this quarter only. 13:28 13 minutes, 28 seconds Okay. Okay. And sir my last question uh uh what has caused the decline in absolute aida in Q4 uh despite the 13:35 13 minutes, 35 seconds copper segment addition in the baseline revenue and aida board and how do we see the impact of restia in Q1 also? So 13:43 13 minutes, 43 seconds copper did not have any impact in Q4 in the sense that we only took it over in in March itself. So the only a very 13:51 13 minutes, 51 seconds small impact in the EIA came from copper uh minuscule part came from copper. But as far as the overall EITA reduction is 14:00 14 minutes concerned uh I mean a lot of our material goes to the Middle East around 10% 10 to 10 to 12% of the total sales 14:08 14 minutes, 8 seconds and most of these products that we sell to the Middle East are value added products. So because of this disruption we could not uh sell that material to 14:16 14 minutes, 16 seconds Middle East and therefore the valuated content or valuated products that we used to sell went down and therefore the 14:23 14 minutes, 23 seconds AVIA per turn also came down uh to some extent and also the inward uh logistic 14:30 14 minutes, 30 seconds cost uh uh got went up and therefore the overall material cost has also gone up. that has 14:39 14 minutes, 39 seconds also impacted to some extent the margins. 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds I will request Mr. Akillesh to please rejoin the queue. Sir, we have this there's a small followup on this itself. Uh uh now since uh uh Westia war 14:53 14 minutes, 53 seconds is still going on. So how do we see our Q1 margins to look like? 14:59 14 minutes, 59 seconds See uh we are see in in the short term it definitely will have some impact but we always keep to uh I mean see how we 15:07 15 minutes, 7 seconds can mitigate those issues by going to different markets. Generally uh in value added product it takes time to to find 15:14 15 minutes, 14 seconds new markets for those products. So there will be some impact but we trying to find out how we can mitigate uh some of the impacts coming out of this if it takes longer. 15:27 15 minutes, 27 seconds Got it. Thank you so much sir. 15:30 15 minutes, 30 seconds Participants in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants we requested to please limit your question to two per 15:37 15 minutes, 37 seconds participant. If you have a follow-up question you may rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of kumar from Kamakia. Please go ahead. 15:48 15 minutes, 48 seconds Uh hi sir congratulations on great set of numbers. I have two questions. So can you briefly outline your strategy in the 15:56 15 minutes, 56 seconds copper business? Are we trying to launch more value add-on products or are we focusing on the existing products that we have got through the acquisition and 16:05 16 minutes, 5 seconds what are the synergies that we'll get with our lead acid business and copper business and will this lead to an elongated working capital cycle? 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So basically there are already quite a few valuated products in uh our kitty now with RMA. 16:25 16 minutes, 25 seconds So the in in the initial phase we would try to consolidate whatever markets or whatever products we are having and at the same time uh do some backward 16:34 16 minutes, 34 seconds integration uh by putting up a copper recycling plant at Mudra which will be commissioned within uh the 16:41 16 minutes, 41 seconds next 12 months. Uh so that will add on some value in terms of uh and of course there will be some synergies in sales 16:50 16 minutes, 50 seconds also apart from procurement that we talk about. So that will improve the margins uh going forward. So that will be the first phase. In the second phase when we 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds increase the capacities further in copper then we will look at other value added products also apart from whatever we are making right now in at RML. 17:09 17 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. And then you also mention working capital will not be impacted. 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds Sorry working capital days would not be impacted because uh I mean it's a backward integration only. So overall AITA margins would increase but the 17:20 17 minutes, 20 seconds working capital range would remain similar. 17:25 17 minutes, 25 seconds Okay sir. And you also mentioned rubber and steel recycling in the future. So do we have any plans out for that yet? 17:33 17 minutes, 33 seconds Would we do an inorganic acquisition or would we try to set up the capacity on our own? 17:39 17 minutes, 39 seconds So, so steel is uh not going to come anytime soon because we are now looking at copper and then other products also. 17:49 17 minutes, 49 seconds But tire we have already acquired a company in Romania and in India also we have started putting up a capacity for rubber uh and that would be coming up in 17:59 17 minutes, 59 seconds uh H1 this year. So so the rubber capacity would come up in H1 this year. 18:06 18 minutes, 6 seconds So long plan. 18:11 18 minutes, 11 seconds So this is yeah definitely so this is just the first capacity uh as far as rubber is concerned and that is also in the first phase only or and the total 18:19 18 minutes, 19 seconds capacity that we are planning for rubber is around 30,000 tons that would come up in Q1 or Q2 this year but a we would 18:28 18 minutes, 28 seconds then increase the capacity first of all in Mundra itself we'll increase the capacity from 30,000 t in the next phases and then we'll set up 18:36 18 minutes, 36 seconds other rubber plants in other uh regions in India also And we are also planning to increase capacity in Romania where we already have a plant next year. 18:46 18 minutes, 46 seconds Okay. Okay. So, so steel is more of a long-term plan. We'll see this after maybe two years or three years down the line once we have scaled our existing businesses. 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds It all depends on how how fast we uh stabilize the existing capex that we've done. Uh steel is under I mean 19:04 19 minutes, 4 seconds consideration at all times. But the only thing is that we are we are having our hands full right now with copper, rubber and lithium ion expansion plans and of 19:12 19 minutes, 12 seconds course our existing lead expansion plans. So that is why we put steel on the back burner right now. 19:19 19 minutes, 19 seconds Okay. Sure sir. Thank you sir. I'll join with you. 19:24 19 minutes, 24 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirvana Laha from Badrinat Holdings. Please go ahead. 19:30 19 minutes, 30 seconds Hi good morning sir. Thank you the opportunity. My first question is on RMIL. So what is the current capacity utilization there and what kind of 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds growth are you expecting there in FI27 28 and which areas do you think the growth will come from? 19:48 19 minutes, 48 seconds So current capacity utilization is around 50%. 19:53 19 minutes, 53 seconds and we we would want to take it to around 60 to 65% in the next year itself. Uh going forward by the end of 20:00 20 minutes the uh the 2 to three year period we would take it to I mean we are also planning to have uh to go for expansion 20:07 20 minutes, 7 seconds in the existing plant. Uh so would take this current capacity to almost double the current capacity from 30,000 t around 60,000 ton in the next 3 years. 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds uh but the uh overall capacity utilization at that point in time would also remain at around 60 to 65%. 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds Okay sir and uh the current product profile is I understand there are some supplies to defend pets you can help us 20:33 20 minutes, 33 seconds understand what is the current product profile and where do you see it going from here in the next three years. 20:40 20 minutes, 40 seconds Uh so the current we we are making copper sheets, brass cups, copper foils um and other similar products that 20:48 20 minutes, 48 seconds either go to the uh this electric and electronics industries uh coinage industry, ammunition industry etc. So in 20:57 20 minutes, 57 seconds the next 2 to 3 years we are only going to consolidate the the current markets only the existing markets probably increase the product range in the 21:06 21 minutes, 6 seconds existing markets only but maybe uh 2 to three years down the line we may think of having other products in 21:13 21 minutes, 13 seconds our kitties also but right now we are only going to till the time we go and start producing 60,000 tons peranom we 21:20 21 minutes, 20 seconds would we would only uh concentrate on the existing product portfolios but then once once we increase the total capacity 21:27 21 minutes, 27 seconds then we may go in for other other copper products also. 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds Sure. So the copper recycling that you're setting up what is the plan there? Is that like backward integration for RMIL? Are you going to supply 21:40 21 minutes, 40 seconds capital to RMIL or are you planning to sell in the market? 21:44 21 minutes, 44 seconds So both major part would go into RMAL only but then if there there is opportunity because we will keep on 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds increasing the capacity at at that and also at the backward integration part also. So if there are opportunities to sell it to other uh companies also we 22:00 22 minutes would also be open to that but major chunk of it would go to RML as backward integration. 22:06 22 minutes, 6 seconds Sir and what what are the current gross margins there at RMIL and how much bump do you think this backward integration will get you? 22:14 22 minutes, 14 seconds So currently on a sustainable basis uh we we are getting around 45,000 rupees 22:21 22 minutes, 21 seconds per k uh per ton uh and uh going forward I think if we do the backward 22:28 22 minutes, 28 seconds integration it would go up to 65 to 70,000 tons 70,000 rupees per kg per ton in future. Sorry to interrupt maybe please. 22:39 22 minutes, 39 seconds This is just a clarification on the answer that he's providing. Please allow me to complete this. So this you are mentioning sir is the EIA per turn is it? 22:48 22 minutes, 48 seconds Yes. Yes. Yes. 22:49 22 minutes, 49 seconds And the realization that tracks copper broadly. So if we track copper prices RMI realization broadly track that. Is is that the correct understand? 22:59 22 minutes, 59 seconds Sorry can you come again? So the realization for the products that RML makes because I understand there are 23:06 23 minutes, 6 seconds some alloy products also is we have to understand how the realization so if we track the realization is a mix of all the products. Yeah. So realization is the 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds mix of all the products that they selling. So there are part copper and part brass but overall when we talk about the ITAB button is based on the 23:23 23 minutes, 23 seconds the mix of the current products that they are selling. Okay sir. I'll come back in the line. Thank you. 23:30 23 minutes, 30 seconds Sure. Thanks. 23:33 23 minutes, 33 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Adesh Gossalia from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. 23:41 23 minutes, 41 seconds Uh yeah. Hello. Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds Uh yeah. Uh yeah. So my first uh question was on the outlook on the working capital. uh since uh so if you 23:52 23 minutes, 52 seconds can just provide uh some outlook on for F27's working capital scenario what you are seeing with the new product lines coming up and the expansion that is 24:00 24 minutes happening. So yeah so current working capital was for this year uh including the copper part 24:08 24 minutes, 8 seconds was around 90 days which was slightly higher because uh there was we kept some more inventory uh considering uh the upcoming capacity at Jaipur and Mudra. 24:20 24 minutes, 20 seconds So that was the reason but going forward we see it with the copper business coming in and copper business since that 24:28 24 minutes, 28 seconds will be more imported one. So uh it should be close to 85 to 90 days uh going forward. 24:37 24 minutes, 37 seconds Okay. So more or less in the similar range because 90 days was in FI26. So is my understanding. 24:44 24 minutes, 44 seconds If you don't consider Yeah. If you don't consider copper, it should be lower. But since the copper is more mostly imported one so that the 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds reason the working capital will be again back to 85 90 days. 24:57 24 minutes, 57 seconds Okay. Okay. Got it. So if you can share some outlook and the volume numbers of quarter for Q4 like we are expanding so 25:04 25 minutes, 4 seconds much in quarter. So do we have some significant interest from certain OEMs or uh uh like uh some confirmed orders 25:13 25 minutes, 13 seconds or something like that? If you can just give a picture on those on those lines. 25:18 25 minutes, 18 seconds Are you talking about RNA or the the entire group? 25:22 25 minutes, 22 seconds Uh entire group uh like the current capacity is coming up shortly on both the lines would give a better picture. 25:32 25 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah. So actually it's very difficult right now to to say anything about Q1 because you know on one hand we have expanded at some capacities which is 25:39 25 minutes, 39 seconds going to give us some uh benefit uh in in the quarter and of course we have as we have uh I mean RML would be the first 25:48 25 minutes, 48 seconds quarter that would start showing its complete result but at the same time there are disruptions in logistic cost also and to some extent we are not being 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds able to uh sell products or maybe bring raw material from uh the Middle East which is a major contributor in terms of 26:04 26 minutes, 4 seconds both the valuated content sales also and uh and raw material also. So that will have some negative impact going forward. 26:13 26 minutes, 13 seconds But overall in this year we are very confident of uh and in the next three years we are very confident of in uh uh 26:20 26 minutes, 20 seconds getting a CAGR of 25% 20 to 25% in volume terms consistently for the over the next three years. 26:28 26 minutes, 28 seconds Okay. Okay. And the volume numbers we saw in Q4 for copper. 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds So volume numbers overall we we are planning to grow at around 40 to 50% in copper in this year. So it will be in 26:43 26 minutes, 43 seconds the similar range over over last year in copper also. 26:49 26 minutes, 49 seconds Okay. Okay. And just one data keeping question on the steady state tax rate that we will have 26:57 26 minutes, 57 seconds tax rate. Okay. So uh tax rate for last year it was around 15%, but uh since uh 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds the business which is coming up like RMI and copper business which is uh uh mostly in India and Indian tax rate are 27:11 27 minutes, 11 seconds close to 25%. So blended tax rate for going forward should be in the range of 17 to 18%. 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's it from I will join back in the Thank you. The next question is from the line of AIDS from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. 27:31 27 minutes, 31 seconds Uh yeah. Hi. Uh good afternoon everyone and uh thanks for the opportunity. 27:36 27 minutes, 36 seconds Couple of questions from my side. Uh the first one is essentially again on RML. 27:41 27 minutes, 41 seconds Uh just wanted to understand if there is uh surplus land for you to expand over there and looking at the margins of RML 27:50 27 minutes, 50 seconds Avita margin that you have disclosed for FI26 that is close to around 8%. Now Gravitar's overall margins are like in the range of 10% or so. So is there any 27:58 27 minutes, 58 seconds possibility of increasing the margins over there or is the business like that that you know copper business would remain at 8% kind of thing and if you 28:06 28 minutes, 6 seconds could also highlight the sourcing of copper of currently will you will you be tapping into your regular African markets or uh you know you will be 28:14 28 minutes, 14 seconds exploring uh let us say Latin America also for that so this is the first yeah 28:20 28 minutes, 20 seconds so in in RML I think uh the overall margins definitely we would plan to increase this as I mentioned that we 28:29 28 minutes, 29 seconds would probably change some uh product mix so sorry at the procurement level some mix in terms of scrap also 28:37 28 minutes, 37 seconds currently they are not optimizing use of copper scrap we would like to increase that going forward and of course we will use our existing yard network to source 28:46 28 minutes, 46 seconds copper scrap also uh and then of course uh in copper generally we would have to go to the developed markets also so US 28:54 28 minutes, 54 seconds Europe and South America and of course Australia. These are the other markets that we will be 29:02 29 minutes, 2 seconds considering in terms of setting up additional yards in the next two to three years and of course uh importing from our existing uh set of 29:11 29 minutes, 11 seconds uh vendors. So that will improve uh the margins in next two to three years to around 9 to 10%. From current around 8%. 29:22 29 minutes, 22 seconds Uh sir just a broad commentary would help actually on the shift from informal to formal sector. Uh last year or years 29:30 29 minutes, 30 seconds before last there were couple of endeavors from the government particularly with respect to correcting the inverted tax structure and you know 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds uh making sure that the BWR mechanism is implemented. So what are the changes that you are seeing and uh what would be 29:46 29 minutes, 46 seconds the approximate shift that you would expect over next 3 years to formal sector from informal. 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds So so one of the major shift that has started is actually earlier there was a lot of EPR transactions that were taking place between two parties and it was not 30:03 30 minutes, 3 seconds transparent. Now the government has set up a exchange uh uh where only where you can sell or buy EPR. So there is more 30:12 30 minutes, 12 seconds transparency now. Nobody can sell at a rate lower than the earmarked rate for EPRs. So that is one one area that has 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds changed drastically in this case because in some cases the customers were forcing the vendors to sell EPR at a cheaper 30:27 30 minutes, 27 seconds rate. So with this uh uh you know exchange coming in between where you can sell it through uh that exchange only 30:35 30 minutes, 35 seconds that will uh get uh I mean that will change. So that will further 30:43 30 minutes, 43 seconds you know fasttrack the uh fast track this uh shift from unorganized to organized and add to 30:52 30 minutes, 52 seconds further to this there will be an audit mechanism which central pollution control board is making that framework 30:59 30 minutes, 59 seconds of audit. So wherein somebody is generating any fake credits that will also be audited. So this process will 31:06 31 minutes, 6 seconds also uh improve in this EPR mechanism and BWMR regulations. 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds But as far as battery is concerned, I think there is now a consensus between smelters and also the battery makers and 31:21 31 minutes, 21 seconds I think there is no resistance in terms of this EPR 31:28 31 minutes, 28 seconds regulation. Now everybody is on board with the EPR regulation as far as battery is concerned. There are other sectors also where it is taking probably 31:36 31 minutes, 36 seconds a little longer time but most of the uh the customers I mean the battery brand owners and the smelting uh companies are in line with these EPR regulations now. 31:48 31 minutes, 48 seconds Okay sir great uh thank you so much and all the guest. 31:53 31 minutes, 53 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumat Kumar from Motila Loal. Please go ahead. 31:59 31 minutes, 59 seconds Yeah. So my my question is for the copper segment uh existing how the existing yard and overall sourcing of uh 32:08 32 minutes, 8 seconds lay and others other other raw material uh after ining to copper is helping and how much we we have to expand uh to 32:17 32 minutes, 17 seconds other uh other geographies or also other yard to uh to have a more sourcing of copper. 32:25 32 minutes, 25 seconds actually I mean copper generation in developing economies is limited. So we have to go 32:32 32 minutes, 32 seconds to the and whereas most of the battery scrap that was coming to us was from our own yard was from developing economies 32:41 32 minutes, 41 seconds only. So to some extent our developing economies would also give us copper but most of the copper that would get import 32:48 32 minutes, 48 seconds uh that we would import would come from uh developed economies as I mentioned like US, Australia, Brazil etc. Uh so we 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds have to set up or we have to strengthen our sourcing uh from these uh developed 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds nations also when it comes to copper. So we are setting up a recycling plant which will be operative from next uh 33:15 33 minutes, 15 seconds year onwards and we are also at the same time setting up our own procurement network in in these 33:24 33 minutes, 24 seconds locations. So we are very confident but that by the time we'll set up the plant we would have a procurement network in these countries also. 33:32 33 minutes, 32 seconds Existing network is helping you for getting uh it will definitely help. it will definitely help but the the the plan is 33:40 33 minutes, 40 seconds to going for a 30,000 tons perom in the first phase itself. So we would 33:47 33 minutes, 47 seconds need to have uh other sources for copper also which would majorly come from developed nations only. It's not that we 33:55 33 minutes, 55 seconds do not have our own procurement network in these nations uh in these countries. 33:59 33 minutes, 59 seconds We have a lot of our batteries come from uh US currently. So we would use that network to source copper but then we 34:08 34 minutes, 8 seconds would have to expand that network even further. And last question uh after consolation of RMIL I understand RMIL AITA per kg is 34:17 34 minutes, 17 seconds higher but working capital I think is also higher. So uh is it correct assumption working your margin profile 34:24 34 minutes, 24 seconds of the company is going to improve but your working capital is also going to increase. So margin profile in terms of 34:31 34 minutes, 31 seconds percentage would not improve in terms of absolute it would improve per ton if you talk about uh and yeah definitely the 34:39 34 minutes, 39 seconds the because you we would be importing a lot of copper uh from overseas locations then definitely the working capital 34:46 34 minutes, 46 seconds would increase uh so as uh Sunil mentioned a little while earlier is that uh you can expect the total working 34:55 34 minutes, 55 seconds capital to remain at around 90 days in in future also. 35:00 35 minutes Okay. So this is higher than existing working capabilities. 35:04 35 minutes, 4 seconds Existing also it's 90 days. So uh with the copper because uh we were holding additional inventories for uh in in the 35:12 35 minutes, 12 seconds lead also we were holding some additional inventories and there's the reason the whole year was uh 90 days for 35:18 35 minutes, 18 seconds us uh in the last year. Uh so and going forward also it should be in the range of 85 to 90 days considering copper coming in. Oh, thank you so much. 35:30 35 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akas Singh from ICA securities. Please go ahead. 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds Good afternoon sir and thank you for the opportunity. So I just wanted to understand our 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds capital allocation in terms of that 1,700 K if you can bifocate it on a year wise and given the copper would require 35:53 35 minutes, 53 seconds a huge absolute working capital how should we look at the debt. 36:00 36 minutes Yeah. So u definitely the year wise if you see the break up is close to 600 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds crores for next year uh and 700 oes in the FI28 and uh then around 400 crores for FI29. 36:17 36 minutes, 17 seconds So this is a broad breakup of 1,700 crores and definitely this 1700 scores will be funded from internal network. We 36:25 36 minutes, 25 seconds can easily fund this 1,700 crores but definitely we need a more capital for uh for working capital which will be uh 36:34 36 minutes, 34 seconds taken from from some debt working capital debt. uh but uh we don't consider this working capital debt as u 36:43 36 minutes, 43 seconds because we keep our hedging uh mechanism in place and uh all the inventories which is a major part of this working 36:51 36 minutes, 51 seconds capital uh is always uh hedged inventory and we don't see any risk and metal is as good as uh liquid cash. So uh the 37:00 37 minutes idea is to keep this inventory uh in the form of metal and uh and take some debt on that. 37:10 37 minutes, 10 seconds No sir. So but still we didn't get the uh you know the clarity on what kind of debt increase we can expect in the next 37:19 37 minutes, 19 seconds 12 to 15 months because of these endeavors. 37:25 37 minutes, 25 seconds So uh debt should be working capital debt of around 800 to 900 crores uh after the copper coming in. Uh once the 37:33 37 minutes, 33 seconds copper business starting uh say next year. So that time we should be peak should be close to 800. Currently we are 37:41 37 minutes, 41 seconds 118 cr of net debt we are having and which will go up by 600 to 700 crores. 700 crores approximately. 37:50 37 minutes, 50 seconds Notice sir. Sir my second question regards to copper only unlike lead we don't have that kind of already 37:59 37 minutes, 59 seconds establish a sourcing system or a geographical advantage so just wanted to understand given some of the competitors 38:06 38 minutes, 6 seconds are also adding uh sharp capacity in their segment and we've been predominantly depending on the imports 38:15 38 minutes, 15 seconds so where have we already tied up with few people to get this or how should we 38:21 38 minutes, 21 seconds look at from which uh geography we we think that we would be able to source everything in terms of copper. Yeah. 38:29 38 minutes, 29 seconds So sir in copper there are two things I mean if you if you buy from aggregator I mean I mean that is true with any any metal or any scrap is that if you buy 38:38 38 minutes, 38 seconds from aggregator and then you make normal probably rod of copper and sell it to the to the market you would not have any 38:45 38 minutes, 45 seconds profits. But here now we have this RML where we are making value added products. So we are thinking of copper as a backward integration to that 38:54 38 minutes, 54 seconds facility. Uh definitely our own uh procurement network is going to help. 38:59 38 minutes, 59 seconds It's not that it's not going to help. We already have uh material coming from countries from where copper is also coming. We have our representatives 39:06 39 minutes, 6 seconds there in in some of these countries. We have our own yards also in some of these countries. Earlier we were not buying copper from those vendors or in those 39:15 39 minutes, 15 seconds yards. Now we would start buying copper also from those yards. So definitely there is going to be synergy in terms of reducing cost and there is where we are a little different from our competitors. 39:27 39 minutes, 27 seconds So on one hand we would have some benefit in terms of going to the last mile and collecting copper scrap. At the same time because of the value addition 39:36 39 minutes, 36 seconds also we would get some delta in terms of the overall realization of from co copper. So if you look at the overall 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds margin that we believe is going to be better than some of our competitors who are just selling when basic copper products and are buying from aggregators. 39:56 39 minutes, 56 seconds No sir. Is there any synergy benefit which you want to point out in terms of uh percentage or figures? 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds So currently as as I mentioned that the RML if they're buying 40:12 40 minutes, 12 seconds and I mean RML is having a total AIA per turn of around 45,000 per turn and we we 40:20 40 minutes, 20 seconds are expecting it to go up to around 65,000 per turn in in by the time our new recycling unit comes up in the next two years. 40:31 40 minutes, 31 seconds No sir that's all from my side. Thank you and all the best for future. 40:36 40 minutes, 36 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shenik Meta from Indo Alps wealth. Please go ahead. 40:45 40 minutes, 45 seconds Hi. Uh my question was about uh the overall aluminium emittita which has fallen on a permetric ton basis uh from 40:54 40 minutes, 54 seconds almost 23,000 per ton to 17,700 23% decline and plastics have also 41:01 41 minutes, 1 second fallen from 20,300 to 9 9,800 almost half. Given that you have this 41:08 41 minutes, 8 seconds vision of 2030 where non-led business would be almost 35 to 40% of the overall business can you decompose how much 41:16 41 minutes, 16 seconds margin compression is attributable in this case to one the LME linked input cost pass 41:23 41 minutes, 23 seconds through lag and second through the capacity ramp up absorption at Mundra and recently commissioned plants and 41:30 41 minutes, 30 seconds third the structural pricing pressure from competition or end market weakness And which of these do you expect that will reverse in the first half of FI27? 41:43 41 minutes, 43 seconds Uh so uh I think uh we have always mentioned that the burden ABA from aluminium is going to be around 14 to 15 41:50 41 minutes, 50 seconds rupees per kg and that has been uh true for the entire year. In fact there has been some increase in in last quarter 41:58 41 minutes, 58 seconds because of sudden increase in aluminium prices. But on a sustainable basis, we have already always said that it it's going to be around 14 to 15 rupees per 42:07 42 minutes, 7 seconds kg. And for the entire year because of copper pricing going up, it has been around 16 rupees per kg in aluminium. 42:15 42 minutes, 15 seconds Right? So it's not correct to say that the margins have been decreasing. The margins are still over and above the the 42:22 42 minutes, 22 seconds guidance that we have given. But because there is no hedging mechanism then you can see some shifts in in uh realization 42:30 42 minutes, 30 seconds or aida margins going forward also but on a sustainable basis 14 to 15 rupees can be expected uh and definitely uh 42:38 42 minutes, 38 seconds because when we set up our own plant in India the working capital cycle increases and therefore the the uh the 42:46 42 minutes, 46 seconds necessity to have a hedging mechanism is very important. Uh so therefore we are waiting for this uh approval from MCX or 42:55 42 minutes, 55 seconds starting MCX starting a contract on aluminium before we scale it up uh in India. uh as far as plastic is concerned 43:04 43 minutes, 4 seconds uh I've mentioned it many times earlier also that it will take some time and it's also consistent if if you look at 43:10 43 minutes, 10 seconds FI25 last year versus this year there has been some increase in uh AITA pattern from around 10 rupees to uh to 43:18 43 minutes, 18 seconds around 12 rupees this year and part of it was because of again Q4 when the plastic prices surged because of this 43:26 43 minutes, 26 seconds disruption and no plastic being coming from overseas locations. So therefore the plastic prices went up and therefore 43:33 43 minutes, 33 seconds we we could gain some uh higher AIA in plastic uh in in the last quarter but on a on a average basis you can expect 43:41 43 minutes, 41 seconds around 10 to 12 rupees a bit margins in plastic going forward also. So there is no decline in the margins overall but 43:50 43 minutes, 50 seconds the volume in plastic would take some time. In aluminium we are regularly following up with M6 and waiting for the 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds approval to then scale up aluminium in India and when when do you expect that 44:06 44 minutes, 6 seconds approval because it's been hanging for a long time. 44:08 44 minutes, 8 seconds We've been I I understand that we've been expecting this for the past one year. I 44:15 44 minutes, 15 seconds I mean I can say that we we can get it in Q1 next year also but unfortunately 44:22 44 minutes, 22 seconds it's very difficult to predict because everything is there I mean there is nothing that is left now the approvals are already there M6 has already made 44:30 44 minutes, 30 seconds that contract but they are not releasing those contracts so I I think uh it can happen anytime. 44:39 44 minutes, 39 seconds Okay. Thank you. 44:44 44 minutes, 44 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ash Khal from Noama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Uh thanks for the opportunity. 44:52 44 minutes, 52 seconds So two quick questions. One uh you already mentioned about your sustainable avitita potent guidance for aluminium plastic. Uh is it possible to share that uh same for lead, copper and rubber? 45:04 45 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah. So lead again is around uh 19 to 20 rupees per kg and copper currently is around 45 rupees per kg but once we 45:13 45 minutes, 13 seconds start our recycling facility it would go up to 60 to 65 rupees per kg 45:19 45 minutes, 19 seconds rubber rubber it would be around 7 to 8 rupees per kg. So sir uh here you know uh when 45:28 45 minutes, 28 seconds you are talking about lead 19 to 20 you are considering the effects of this middleless crisis also into that or this 45:35 45 minutes, 35 seconds is uh not this is a sust on a sustainable basis without any crisis or without any 45:42 45 minutes, 42 seconds arbitrage opportunities um I mean if you look at last year we've had some opportunities of arbitrage where we increased our AIA port to around 22 45:51 45 minutes, 51 seconds rupees but on a sustainable basis I mean when there is no no arbitrage opportunity and there is no 45:59 45 minutes, 59 seconds disruption then it is 19 to 20 rupees but if any of these two can change the the lead 46:06 46 minutes, 6 seconds margin but that would only be temporary not not a permanent uh shift so on a permanent basis 19 to 20 rupees is 46:14 46 minutes, 14 seconds achievable and then uh as we become bigger and as our share of valuated product goes up you can you can see some 46:22 46 minutes, 22 seconds improvements in the next couple of years. 46:26 46 minutes, 26 seconds Understood. So that means Q1 can expect at a lower end of the guidance in terms of AITA burden at least. 46:35 46 minutes, 35 seconds Um yes you can say that because there are certain disruptions that are taking place but at the same time we are looking at other avenues so that we can 46:42 46 minutes, 42 seconds compensate some of that effect. uh so we are still I mean trying to find out what would be the uh exact uh 46:51 46 minutes, 51 seconds understood guidance in the in the next okay second question is out of this 850 46:58 46 minutes, 58 seconds cr capex uh which you are doing for copper steel and others how much it is 47:06 47 minutes, 6 seconds for copper because what we understand is that you know lead was our bread and butter and then we tried to do it aluminium plastic rubber but uh 47:14 47 minutes, 14 seconds unfortunately ely for last four five years nothing major happened over there now copper comes to our kitty and 47:21 47 minutes, 21 seconds that we will be focusing okay this total capex of 1 1700 crores 47:28 47 minutes, 28 seconds which we plan for next uh 3 years uh the capex for copper is approximately 700 crores 47:36 47 minutes, 36 seconds okay so in this 700 cr how much capacity we are building in including the 47:43 47 minutes, 43 seconds integrated or backward integration also yet to be planned because we are doing some some capex for valuated products 47:51 47 minutes, 51 seconds also and at the same time for for uh wrong so basic uh recycling also. So 47:58 47 minutes, 58 seconds both around 200 300 crores for valuated products which will not be uh generating 48:06 48 minutes, 6 seconds additional revenue but definitely it will improve the margins but additional 300 to 400 400 to 500 crores worth 48:15 48 minutes, 15 seconds increasing the capacity of basic products. 48:19 48 minutes, 19 seconds So that's what I'm trying to ask. So suppose you know in next 3 or 4 years we complete this 700 cr capex on copper and 48:26 48 minutes, 26 seconds and and we have a capacity of uh 30,000 which you are saying we can double it to 60,000. So uh 60,000 again can go upward 48:35 48 minutes, 35 seconds or not in this which is included in this copper capex. I'm trying to look at what kind of a we can generate once you you 48:42 48 minutes, 42 seconds know do the entire 700 capex and up and running in maybe four years down the line. 48:48 48 minutes, 48 seconds So I mean in the next two two years the capacity would be around uh 60,000 tons 48:55 48 minutes, 55 seconds only two to three years but then when we increase our recycling capacities further then part of it would go to RML 49:04 49 minutes, 4 seconds and the balance part we can we would we are planning to make probably go into some other valuated products or some other products and therefore the total 49:12 49 minutes, 12 seconds capacity would be around 100,000 tons in the by FY29. Yes. 49:17 49 minutes, 17 seconds Okay. So 100,000 turn 65 to 70,000 rupees per turn ATA one can expect from there. 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds Yeah. 60 60,000. 49:28 49 minutes, 28 seconds That's great sir. Thank you and all the best sir. Thank you. 49:34 49 minutes, 34 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumangal Netia from KC Securities. Please go ahead. 49:41 49 minutes, 41 seconds Yeah, good afternoon. Thanks for the chance. Uh sir uh roughly uh now just continuing on the copper uh topic uh 49:48 49 minutes, 48 seconds what sort of working capital u uh are we looking at say next 3 to four years is it roughly around 1200 odd crores. 49:57 49 minutes, 57 seconds Uh so basically uh the working capital cycle for copper is going to be around 50:04 50 minutes, 4 seconds 90 days. So uh so in that sense whatever uh right uh if we calculate it for um 50:13 50 minutes, 13 seconds 30,000 tons capacity at 70% yes it should be close to,000 crores. 50:18 50 minutes, 18 seconds Okay. Okay. So just I mean if you put in that 700 odd crores of capex 1200 odd crores of working capital and thea 50:26 50 minutes, 26 seconds margin and some uh decent utilization of 60,000 uh tons capacity 50:33 50 minutes, 33 seconds uh our calculation is suggesting not more than 11 12% ROC. So just want to know what what what is our sense of the entire copper division return profile. 50:45 50 minutes, 45 seconds No basically as we said key the the this recycling facility is a backward integration of our existing facility uh 50:53 50 minutes, 53 seconds in copper like we took over this RML. So uh if you consolidate this both the businesses together the overall the 51:02 51 minutes, 2 seconds margin profile will be better and ROC should be in the range of 20% plus. Okay. Okay. So what margin profile? 51:10 51 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah, with with backward integration we're taking around 60 65 rupees per kg. 51:15 51 minutes, 15 seconds Is that fair or will be better than that also on backward integrated capacity? 51:21 51 minutes, 21 seconds So once so this will be 65 will be on the basis of current 45 of RMIL considering 45k of RML current current. 51:32 51 minutes, 32 seconds So there there will be some upside on that also in future and with integration it will it will further improve. So we 51:39 51 minutes, 39 seconds are going beyond 65 uh over a period of two to three years uh down the line. 51:47 51 minutes, 47 seconds Okay. Okay. Understood. Uh so my second question is on on on the lead division. 51:52 51 minutes, 52 seconds So generally uh as per our expectation how have been the entire enforcement of the EPR norms and are we seeing any 52:01 52 minutes, 1 second penalties being imposed? uh because given all the policy tailwinds also in the last few years our volume growth has 52:09 52 minutes, 9 seconds been almost uh in the lead division has just been around 15% kagger uh which uh has been much weaker than what we were 52:17 52 minutes, 17 seconds uh expecting or guiding. So what has been the key uh I mean disappointment here and how do we see this changing? 52:27 52 minutes, 27 seconds Yes, as I mentioned earlier that there are few changes which are going to happen on this EPR portal. One the 52:35 52 minutes, 35 seconds trading will be happening through MSTC which will be an independent trading portal and second the audit mechanism 52:43 52 minutes, 43 seconds also invol evolving and wherein the people who are providing EPR will be audited by central pollution control 52:50 52 minutes, 50 seconds board. So this will create a higher value realization of EPR credits and later these script may become as a part 52:59 52 minutes, 59 seconds of carbon credit also. So there will be more transparency coming in this area 53:05 53 minutes, 5 seconds and parallelly uh the reverse charge mechanism and uh TDS on particularly 53:13 53 minutes, 13 seconds battery scrap is under discussions and the next GST council meeting it may be 53:23 53 minutes, 23 seconds uh re implemented because NTIO has recently released three reports one on 53:31 53 minutes, 31 seconds tire, one on end of life vehicles and other one was on batteries, lithium ion as well laded battery wherein also they 53:38 53 minutes, 38 seconds have recommended all these uh reforms related to tax and uh operational reform. So hopefully in next council 53:47 53 minutes, 47 seconds meeting it may come as a reverse charge mechanism TDS one is e portal and third audit of the recyclers. So, so to answer 53:56 53 minutes, 56 seconds your question to some extent uh it is having an impact in terms of uh higher um you know availability of material 54:06 54 minutes, 6 seconds domestically but at the same time you know 18% GST is uh creating a hurdle because of which most of the uh the 54:15 54 minutes, 15 seconds battery battery brand owners are not able to compete with the unorganized market. So therefore 54:22 54 minutes, 22 seconds I mean although they are trying their best at the same time unfortunately the lead prices globally have not been uh I 54:30 54 minutes, 30 seconds mean they were very low over the last years. So the difference between domestic lead and overseas lead was uh 54:38 54 minutes, 38 seconds very high. So that also created some uh problem in terms of uh battery manufacturers to go and 54:47 54 minutes, 47 seconds you know collect batteries from uh domestic market. But once this reverse charge mechanism will come that 54:55 54 minutes, 55 seconds 18% benefit that this unorganized sector gets goes away then it will probably go 55:02 55 minutes, 2 seconds very fast. But otherwise also if the arbitrage opportunity which is currently available in domestic market visav the 55:09 55 minutes, 9 seconds LME or the global markets comes down then also the the collection would be much faster. 55:18 55 minutes, 18 seconds Uh got it got it. If I can just squeeze in one more question. Uh can we get volume guidance for FI27 across divisions? 55:28 55 minutes, 28 seconds So volume plan is like same 20 to 25% growth uh and in additional growth slightly additional growth because we 55:37 55 minutes, 37 seconds missed some volumes in the last year. So we are expecting slightly more than this in the FY27. 55:44 55 minutes, 44 seconds Got it. Thank you and all the best sir. Yes. 55:52 55 minutes, 52 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kushnar from Electron PMS. Please go ahead. 56:03 56 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah, please. Kushna, please go ahead with a question. Your line is unmuted. 56:15 56 minutes, 15 seconds Mr. Nahar may be requested to unmute yourself and proceed ahead with your question. 56:22 56 minutes, 22 seconds As there is no response, we'll move to the next question which is from the line of Nashita from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead. 56:29 56 minutes, 29 seconds Yes. Hello. Am I honorable? Hi. 56:33 56 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So, uh I uh just had I had a question on the lithium ion battery plant uh that we've put up of 6,000 MTPA. 56:44 56 minutes, 44 seconds So, uh we commissioned that in Q4. So, what is the revenue potential from that plant? 56:52 56 minutes, 52 seconds See uh uh as we mentioned earlier also that lithiumion battery is just a pilot project where we are trying to understand the technology uh it's only 57:00 57 minutes the first part of the of the overall lithiumion plant that we have established and that is till black mass. 57:07 57 minutes, 7 seconds So currently we are putting up the second part where we would be refining and extracting lithium and other 57:14 57 minutes, 14 seconds minerals from this uh plant that is still to come. So we are not expecting any major revenue in this year from 57:21 57 minutes, 21 seconds lithium and battery uh recycling but in the next two to three years I mean you can see some uh volumes coming but not 57:29 57 minutes, 29 seconds not uh we are not considering any volume from lithium ion batteries in the next 57:35 57 minutes, 35 seconds till our FI 29 guidance if if something comes that would be over and above the guidance. 57:43 57 minutes, 43 seconds Okay. Okay. Understood. and like the backward integration of recycling for copper the recycling plant that we are 57:50 57 minutes, 50 seconds doing. What will be the capacity of that recycling plant? 57:58 57 minutes, 58 seconds The capacity for this plant is the phase one will be 29,400. 58:08 58 minutes, 8 seconds Okay. And uh like what will be the total capacity after all the phases are done? 58:15 58 minutes, 15 seconds So as we mentioned that uh over a period of two to three years we are planning to take this capacity 58:22 58 minutes, 22 seconds 200,000 tons plus that is 100,000 tons plus 58:29 58 minutes, 29 seconds okay okay and so like we are under a very high growth phase right now with all of our 58:38 58 minutes, 38 seconds capacity expansion so once all of the capacity expansion is done what like at the maximum utilization with all the 58:46 58 minutes, 46 seconds capacity capacities commissioned what is the revenue potential that we see so uh as I mentioned earlier that the 58:55 58 minutes, 55 seconds total you can expect a volume of around 800,000 tons by FI29 59:03 59 minutes, 3 seconds in terms of volumes andap I'm sorry that is the total capacity and you can expect around 60 to 69% 59:12 59 minutes, 12 seconds utilization of those capacity which would come to around 5,000 59:18 59 minutes, 18 seconds 500,000 tons 500 tons 500,000 tons by FI29. 59:25 59 minutes, 25 seconds Okay. And the AITA person will be more or less stay the same that you've mentioned earlier segment wise AITA guidance we've already given and it would remain on similar. 59:38 59 minutes, 38 seconds Okay. Okay. Understood. Thank you so much. All the best. 59:43 59 minutes, 43 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anikid Madwani from Step Trade Capital. Please go ahead. 1:00:00 1 hour An please go ahead with your question. Your line is unmuted. 1:00:10 1 hour, 10 seconds As there is no response, we'll move to the next question which is from the line of Sahil Kirk from CCV fund. Please go ahead. 1:00:18 1 hour, 18 seconds Uh hi, good afternoon sir. Am I audible? Hello. Yes, you are. Please go ahead. 1:00:26 1 hour, 26 seconds Uh sir, may I know like what was the reason for promoter offloading their sale in the open market during last 12 months? 1:00:35 1 hour, 35 seconds So there was no sale in the open market. 1:00:37 1 hour, 37 seconds there was some uh dilusion by way of selling to some institutional shareholders uh where they were looking 1:00:44 1 hour, 44 seconds for some some bigger you know stake in the company. So that was the reason uh and promoter was also looking for some 1:00:52 1 hour, 52 seconds liquidity for his personal purposes that was the only reason. 1:00:57 1 hour, 57 seconds Okay. Answer the uh second question is that uh the borrowing in the overall company is increasing like in March 25 it was 286 cr and uh March 26 that is we 1:01:06 1 hour, 1 minute, 6 seconds have closed at 736 cr but our interest cost is you know decreasing. So we have interest of only close to 25 odd crores 1:01:13 1 hour, 1 minute, 13 seconds against the borrowings of 736 cr. So are we capitalizing the interest cost or like what is the reason for such a low interest cost? 1:01:22 1 hour, 1 minute, 22 seconds No basically we are considering the net debt. So currently net net debt is very small which is 100 100 odd crores at 1:01:31 1 hour, 1 minute, 31 seconds this moment. So earlier we were having some additional liquidity by way of we raised some equity from the QIP and that 1:01:40 1 hour, 1 minute, 40 seconds money was there with us. Uh so later on we use those part of that money for um for some of the capex and internal 1:01:49 1 hour, 1 minute, 49 seconds networks and the working capital and recently we acquired one company uh you have heard about RML in copper copper 1:01:56 1 hour, 1 minute, 56 seconds business. So uh some of the liquidity was used for that also. So considering everything all after all everything uh 1:02:04 1 hour, 2 minutes, 4 seconds now that we have the uh net debt of around 100 crores uh which is very small and uh that is the reason uh the interest cost was coming down. 1:02:15 1 hour, 2 minutes, 15 seconds So by net debt you mean to say that you have a surplus cash balance right or maybe some liquidity investments liquid investment. 1:02:22 1 hour, 2 minutes, 22 seconds So for that we are already booking some but for that we are already booking other income in the P&L. So there is a 77 cr of other income in the P&L. So how we are like getting off with that? 1:02:35 1 hour, 2 minutes, 35 seconds No. So overall on the debt side we have but uh when we have the higher interest cost also then the uh basically the 1:02:43 1 hour, 2 minutes, 43 seconds reduction of other income was also there. 1:02:49 1 hour, 2 minutes, 49 seconds So may I know what is the cost of that is not debt is increases in in the in this year year end only 1:02:58 1 hour, 2 minutes, 58 seconds because of because of this acquisition which was done in the March itself uh the debt is uh you know uh increase 1:03:06 1 hour, 3 minutes, 6 seconds otherwise the debt was lower. So so the interest cost if you see on the year end overall year was lower because that was 1:03:15 1 hour, 3 minutes, 15 seconds lower. So, so the other income only stopped stopped in March, mid March only. 1:03:22 1 hour, 3 minutes, 22 seconds Okay. So, what would be the tentative interest cost for FY27 based on the current date of 736 odd crores? 1:03:32 1 hour, 3 minutes, 32 seconds So, interest will be in in the similar range whatever we we are doing around four or four crores for for a quarter. 1:03:41 1 hour, 3 minutes, 41 seconds So, that four to five crores will be the interest cost for this year. till the time we we start uh the copper recycling 1:03:49 1 hour, 3 minutes, 49 seconds business uh which is the bigger part of the working capital. So once that is started so we we start some increase in the debt 1:03:58 1 hour, 3 minutes, 58 seconds for uh working capital otherwise uh till the time we don't start that recycling business in copper the working capital 1:04:06 1 hour, 4 minutes, 6 seconds will be debt will be similar okay okay so I just one last question may know what is the current expansion 1:04:15 1 hour, 4 minutes, 15 seconds status of the mudra and the fi plant I guess I missed it earlier so mudra has already been uh 1:04:21 1 hour, 4 minutes, 21 seconds commissioned and faggi you can expect in Q1. 1:04:27 1 hour, 4 minutes, 27 seconds So there are two two three part to Mundra expansion. One is the uh the lead expansion that has already happened in last quarter. The rubber expansion would 1:04:35 1 hour, 4 minutes, 35 seconds happen in Q1 or Q2 this year H1 this year. FAGI lead would of 45,000 tons of 1:04:42 1 hour, 4 minutes, 42 seconds lead capacity would uh happen in Q1 of this year. 1:04:49 1 hour, 4 minutes, 49 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you. 1:04:54 1 hour, 4 minutes, 54 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments. 1:05:05 1 hour, 5 minutes, 5 seconds Thank thank you everyone for participating in this call. We trust that we have addressed all your queries during this session. However, if there 1:05:12 1 hour, 5 minutes, 12 seconds are any remaining questions, please feel free to reach out to our investor relations team. Once again we extend our gratitude to all the participants for 1:05:20 1 hour, 5 minutes, 20 seconds joining us today. Thank you and have a great day. 1:05:24 1 hour, 5 minutes, 24 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Antic Talk Broking that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us.