DCW Ltd — Q4 FY26

DCW Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucA6o_Rp88k Published: 7 days ago

0:02 2 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to DCW Limited Q4 FY26 earnings conference call hosted by Aryan Capital 0:11 11 seconds Markets Limited. As a reminder, all participants will be in the listenon mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the 0:19 19 seconds presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. 0:28 28 seconds Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aayush Chhatrui from Aryhan Capital Markets Limited. 0:37 37 seconds Thank you and over to you sir. 0:41 41 seconds Thank you Ysef. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us on DCW's 0:47 47 seconds Q4 uh FI26 earnings call. I would like to thank the management for giving us 0:53 53 seconds the opportunity to host and on this call representing DCW's management we have 1:01 1 minute, 1 second Mr. Satik Jane President Mr. Amitab Gupta CEO Mr. Sudar Sin Vanapati CEO and 1:09 1 minute, 9 seconds Mr. Praipto Mukharji CFO I would like to invite Mr. Sati Jane now to give his opening remarks post which we can open the forum for Q&A. Over to you sir. 1:19 1 minute, 19 seconds Thanks. 1:20 1 minute, 20 seconds Thank you. Uh good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us for DCW's Q4 and full year FY26 earnings call. As 1:31 1 minute, 31 seconds always I appreciate your time and continued interest in our company. I will begin 1:38 1 minute, 38 seconds sorry with a brief view of the broader industry environment and then move on to our uh full year performance operational progress and way forward. 1:50 1 minute, 50 seconds FY26 was another volatile year for the global chemical industry. Um the sector continued to deal with fluctuations in 1:58 1 minute, 58 seconds crude link feed stock and energy costs, geopolitical disruptions, changing trade flows and elevated logistics costs at 2:07 2 minutes, 7 seconds different points during the year. While underlying demand across several NU sectors broadly remained stable, pricing 2:15 2 minutes, 15 seconds was under pressure across many chemical value chains due to excess global capacities and weak international realizations. 2:24 2 minutes, 24 seconds For Indian chemical companies, the pressure was even more visible. Large volumes of competitively priced imports, 2:31 2 minutes, 31 seconds especially from China, continued to impact domestic pricing and margin structures. This was particularly 2:39 2 minutes, 39 seconds relevant for commodity chemicals where global over supply and import competition kept naturalizations 2:46 2 minutes, 46 seconds under pressure through most part of the year. 2:50 2 minutes, 50 seconds At the same time, India's medium to long-term opportunity remains intact. 2:55 2 minutes, 55 seconds domestic consumption, infrastructure creation, housing, water management, agriculture, 3:03 3 minutes, 3 seconds um industrial growth continue to provide a strong base for chemical demand. While near-term volatility in input costs, job 3:11 3 minutes, 11 seconds polics, trade flows will continue to remain constructive on the sector's long-term outlook. Against this 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds challenging backdrop, we're happy to say that BCW delivered a steady and satisfying performance for FY26. 3:26 3 minutes, 26 seconds Our EVIDA grew by approximately 11% yearonear and our PAT grew by more than 60%. 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds This performance is particularly encouraging because it was achieved in a year where net realizations declined 3:41 3 minutes, 41 seconds across our entire product range with the exception of our pigments. CPVC realizations alone corrected by more 3:50 3 minutes, 50 seconds than 20% during the year. Therefore, the improvement in profitability was not driven by price tailwinds but by higher 3:58 3 minutes, 58 seconds volumes, better operating discipline, improved utilization and a stronger specialty contribution and leaner balance sheet. 4:08 4 minutes, 8 seconds During the year, we recorded higher production and sales across almost all of our products compared to FY25. 4:18 4 minutes, 18 seconds The only exception was external PDC sales where incremental volumes were consciously diverted for captive 4:25 4 minutes, 25 seconds consumption in our CPDC production. This is aligned with our strategy of moving further 4:33 4 minutes, 33 seconds downstream, improving value realization and strengthening the specialty chemicals contribution within our portfolio. 4:43 4 minutes, 43 seconds FYI26 was also a record year from a volume perspective. We achieved our highest ever sales volumes in CPVC, 4:52 4 minutes, 52 seconds synthetic iron oxide pigment and synthetic root. This is an important milestone for us especially given the difficult external environment in CPBC. 5:04 5 minutes, 4 seconds The year marked a significant step forward. We added 30,000 tons of capacity to our earlier 20,000 ton base 5:13 5 minutes, 13 seconds taking our total annual capacity to 50,000 tons. The expansion was commissioned on time within budget and 5:20 5 minutes, 20 seconds commercialized at full capacity all within one quarter. 5:25 5 minutes, 25 seconds The final 10,000 tons was also completed on time towards the end of March and we expect the benefits of this additional capacity to start acrewing from Q1. 5:36 5 minutes, 36 seconds Our synthetic root business also delivered a strong year with record sales volumes and a significant reduction in inventory pressure. 5:45 5 minutes, 45 seconds This is a positive development considering the tough market conditions in this product over the last few years. 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds The progress reflects uh better customer engagement, improved dispatch planning 5:59 5 minutes, 59 seconds um and sustained focus by our team on rebuilding market confidence. 6:05 6 minutes, 5 seconds The synthetic iron oxide pigments business continued to perform well supported by healthy demand and market penetration. 6:13 6 minutes, 13 seconds As discussed earlier, we are also working on expanding our product range with newer grades which should help improve our market reach over time. 6:22 6 minutes, 22 seconds From a segment segmental perspective, specialty chemicals continue to support overall profitability although margins 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds moderated due to the correction in CPDC realizations and spread compression. 6:37 6 minutes, 37 seconds On the other hand, the basic chemicals business showed improvement performance uh supported by better utilization 6:45 6 minutes, 45 seconds levels and benefits of our renewable energy projects. Our renewable energy project was also commissioned during the 6:53 6 minutes, 53 seconds year and the benefits have already started reflecting in our power costs. 6:57 6 minutes, 57 seconds This was an important initiative both from a cost competitiveness and sustainability perspective. 7:04 7 minutes, 4 seconds Equally important, FY26 was not only about capacity additions and operational performance. 7:11 7 minutes, 11 seconds We also repay 145 crores of long-term debt during the year and ended FY26 with 7:17 7 minutes, 17 seconds a net debt to IBIDA at.3 times. This gives us a much stronger financial platform as we prepare for the next 7:26 7 minutes, 26 seconds phase of growth. As I had mentioned last quarter, we are not only preparing for a cyclical recovery, we are building the 7:34 7 minutes, 34 seconds organization for scalable growth. During the year, we progressed on several foundational initiatives. The 7:41 7 minutes, 41 seconds implementation of SAP S4 Hannah is a key step forward to stronger governance, sharper financial controls, better data visibility, and process standardization. 7:53 7 minutes, 53 seconds We have also begun piloting AI based process optimization at a sodash plant in partnership with a Netherlands-based 8:00 8 minutes technology company and the early results are encouraging in terms of operational efficiencies across functions. There is a clear focus 8:09 8 minutes, 9 seconds on digitalization, technology adoption and building systems that can support larger, more agile and more accountable organizations. 8:20 8 minutes, 20 seconds As we enter FY27, the global environment remains dynamic, particularly due to the situation in 8:27 8 minutes, 27 seconds West Asia, which has created a near-term disruption in PBC supply chains and 8:33 8 minutes, 33 seconds pricing. We will uh remain watchful on capital deployment in this uncertain environment. At the same time, our 8:42 8 minutes, 42 seconds growth plans are in advanced stages and our intent remains clear with the expanded CPDC capacity, improving 8:51 8 minutes, 51 seconds specialty volumes, reduced synthetic root inventory, renewable energy benefits, stronger systems, 8:58 8 minutes, 58 seconds significantly leaner balance sheet. DCW enters FY27 with a more resilient and future ready base. Our focus now is to 9:08 9 minutes, 8 seconds convert this stronger platform into sustained growth while maintaining discipline in our capital allocation and execution. 9:17 9 minutes, 17 seconds With that, I will hand it over to our CFO Pradesh to take cue to our financial performance in detail. Thank you. 9:26 9 minutes, 26 seconds Thank you Satik and welcome everyone to Q4 FI26 earnings call for DCW Limited. 9:34 9 minutes, 34 seconds Quarter for revenue stood at 609 crores which was higher by 13.2% YI basis and 17% on sequential basis. 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds The annual revenue stood at 2,144 crores an increase of 7.2% on a YI. 9:54 9 minutes, 54 seconds The annual revenue numbers registered this grow growth despite the realization across all product segment have been impacted during the course of the 10:03 10 minutes, 3 seconds financial year and further 25 to 30% incremental PVC volumes were diverted 10:10 10 minutes, 10 seconds for captive consumption. It is important to mention here that the at the annual level the company recorded highest ever 10:17 10 minutes, 17 seconds sales volume for CPVC sop and synthetic rotile. While CPVC incremental volumes 10:24 10 minutes, 24 seconds were produced due to capacity expansion the commercialization of the same happened seamlessly thereby nullifying 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds any inventory increase. In case of SiOP and synthetic routtile, the company was able to sell more volumes than 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds production thereby reducing the inventory levels. 10:46 10 minutes, 46 seconds The annual production across all product segments have also surpassed the previous year's production numbers uh 10:52 10 minutes, 52 seconds with standout of CPVC's 60% increase in production volumes and synthetic retiles 20%. The sodash production for the 11:01 11 minutes, 1 second quarter 4 also recorded the highest number in the past 11 quarters. 11:08 11 minutes, 8 seconds The IIT now the IITa quarter 4 AITA including other income stood at 70 crores up by 14% 11:16 11 minutes, 16 seconds YI and 40% on sequential basis. The annual IITa stood at 240 crores as against 216 crores last year. Uh that's 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds an 11.2% increase. 11:29 11 minutes, 29 seconds Q4 basically total CITA stood at 30 crores over 14 crores in Q4 last fiscal that's an increase of 1.1 times and a 11:38 11 minutes, 38 seconds break even number in the previous quarter the annual IITA for basic chemicals stood at 54 crores over 19 11:47 11 minutes, 47 seconds crores in the last fiscal that is 1.8 times. The performance could be attributed to higher production across all product segments uh under basic 11:56 11 minutes, 56 seconds chemicals resulting in a better fixed cost absorption coupled with benefit benefits flowing from substitution of 12:04 12 minutes, 4 seconds power supplies from Tamil Nu electricity board to solar quarter 4 spe speciality chemicals stood 12:11 12 minutes, 11 seconds at 39 crores over 46 crores in quarter four of last fiscal it's a 16% reduction 12:18 12 minutes, 18 seconds and fifth and 50 crores over the pre 50 crores in the previous quarter which is 22% reduction. The annual limits are 12:26 12 minutes, 26 seconds stood at 177 crores for the specialtity chemicals as against 189 crores in last color degrowth by 6.5%. 12:36 12 minutes, 36 seconds Despite volume increase in both CPVC and SIOP, the significant uh reduction in NR by 22% in CPVC with no consumerate 12:45 12 minutes, 45 seconds reduction in PBC price input prices resulted in uh CP PVC CPVC spread 12:52 12 minutes, 52 seconds contraction and consequently margins annual IITA margin for the company stood 12:59 12 minutes, 59 seconds at 11.2% 2% in the current year, an improvement from the last year last fiscal margin of 10.7%. 13:08 13 minutes, 8 seconds While the speciality margin clocked at 30%, a contraction by 6% over last fiscal, the basic chemical margins improved 3.5% 13:17 13 minutes, 17 seconds improved to 3.5% over 1.3% last year. 13:24 13 minutes, 24 seconds The PAT for quarter 4 stood at 18 crores which is higher by 60% YI and 2.7 times 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds on sequential basis. The annual PAT stood at 48 crores as against 30 crores last fiscal which is a significant increase of 60%. 13:40 13 minutes, 40 seconds Such a growth could be achieved by an increase in increase in IITA by 11% coupled by reduction in finance cost by 7.5%. 13:49 13 minutes, 49 seconds The finance cost quarter 4 stood at 15 crores, 15.4 crores reduction by 2.3% YI and 4.9% sequential basis. Annual 13:59 13 minutes, 59 seconds finance cost stood at 62 crores down from 67 crores in the last fiscal showing a reduction of 7.5%. 14:09 14 minutes, 9 seconds On the balance balance sheet front, it's important to discuss this these two numbers. The company's closing gross 14:16 14 minutes, 16 seconds debt stood at 276 cr versus 426 crores in a year back. This is a reduction of 14:25 14 minutes, 25 seconds 150 crores due to scheduled term loan repayment. The company had not borrowed any additional term facility during the 14:33 14 minutes, 33 seconds current fiscal and with such closing borrowing and such closing borrowings are over are the lowest over many 14:40 14 minutes, 40 seconds financial year ends of the company. The company continues to maintain a cash healthy cash position including bank fds 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds at a level of 204 crores thereby having a net debt of only 71 crores demonstrating the effect of significant 14:57 14 minutes, 57 seconds deleveraging program run for the last couple of years. With this we open this forum for Q&A. Thank you. 15:08 15 minutes, 8 seconds Thank you very much sir. 15:11 15 minutes, 11 seconds We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. 15:20 15 minutes, 20 seconds If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use 15:26 15 minutes, 26 seconds handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question assembles. 15:38 15 minutes, 38 seconds First question is from the line of Fujan Sha from Molecule Ventures. Please proceed. Hello. Am I audible? 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds Yes, please go ahead. 15:49 15 minutes, 49 seconds Yes. Uh sir, first of all, a good set of numbers and uh uh we are starting with FI27 with a very cleaner balance sheet. 15:58 15 minutes, 58 seconds So congratulations on all the efforts you have made for that. Now coming to my first question uh so pertaining it's 16:06 16 minutes, 6 seconds pertainent to costic soda so we have seen the prices are uh uh forming right now so what is the core reason for that 16:12 16 minutes, 12 seconds it is morely of a cost push or we are seeing some end end user industry demand coming up which is uh driving the prices. 16:22 16 minutes, 22 seconds One of the primary reason in our view is that there has been lot of production interruptions in the entire Southeast Asia 16:31 16 minutes, 31 seconds because of the geopolitical situation and uh the usually the costic complex also has a EDC VCM facility because uh 16:40 16 minutes, 40 seconds there has been no supply of petrochemical feed stock operating rate of costic soda had come down. So there was a supply imbalance which helped the 16:49 16 minutes, 49 seconds prices to improve. So uh this situation is likely to continue for some more time till the situation normalizes. 16:59 16 minutes, 59 seconds Okay. Okay. Got it. And uh similar question pertains to the soda. So do you feel the uh so as the chlorali 17:09 17 minutes, 9 seconds always move in a in a same tandem. So do you feel that it also rem it will remain elevated for the similar time being? 17:18 17 minutes, 18 seconds We can't comment because the situation is changing on a daily basis. So we don't know. I just can't answer on that aspect as of now. 17:27 17 minutes, 27 seconds And are we expecting any government support on that part on sodash? 17:33 17 minutes, 33 seconds Sodash I think the efforts are being on right efforts are being sod 17:41 17 minutes, 41 seconds for the anti-dumping duty. So let us hope things come out. But uh since there 17:49 17 minutes, 49 seconds is not much of imports coming from Russia and Iran, the prices have gone 17:56 17 minutes, 56 seconds upwards and the margins are pretty good at this stage and uh this situation is likely to continue for some time but nobody can predict forever. 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds Got it. Got it. And turning to the PVC so I just want to understand uh two 18:15 18 minutes, 15 seconds parts. One is we have seen a reduction in imports due to uh China removing the duty uh and uh uh there is also 18:25 18 minutes, 25 seconds implementation of duty by Indian government which was removed uh due to all this geopolitical situation. Now 18:32 18 minutes, 32 seconds considering all the uh scenarios do you feel the PVC price should be uh be 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds remain rangebound at 8590 or do you feel we have some uh uh headroom still over uh for from this price as well? 18:50 18 minutes, 50 seconds We don't know because uh as of now yes prices have started improving but whether it will go to 85 90 95 that I think that is anybody's guess. 19:01 19 minutes, 1 second uh what had happened in the month of April I think uh was that there was a lot of CDC coming from China which was 19:09 19 minutes, 9 seconds in the uh ACZ uh which was to be exported before they started the duty uh 19:16 19 minutes, 16 seconds which was withdrawn on the exports from China. So now that uh the VAT has been 19:23 19 minutes, 23 seconds uh removed or what the VAT concession has been removed on exports of PBC from China, what will be the impact? We are 19:30 19 minutes, 30 seconds waiting and watching. As of now, it is too early for us to give any I would say heads up or the forecast on how the prices will go. 19:41 19 minutes, 41 seconds So why I'm coming to the question is because we have seen the realistic prices in China is been 20 at a 20 year 19:48 19 minutes, 48 seconds low and versus there is a uh China anti-involution where they are taking some measurable steps uh by shutting 19:57 19 minutes, 57 seconds down some inefficient plants of PVC. So I'm not able to gdge the uh incremental 20:05 20 minutes, 5 seconds delta of how it will be converging into uh the scenario. 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds See anti-involution we have been hearing last 6 months but how it is going to pan out nobody can really forecast and with 20:19 20 minutes, 19 seconds regard to the real estate uh growth drivers which are not doing well in China the same was the case even in the last couple of years. So I don't know 20:29 20 minutes, 29 seconds how the Chinese economy operates or how they work. We just can't we can only watch and see how they are able to uh 20:36 20 minutes, 36 seconds supply the product and if they are if there is some real thought on anti-involution by which they will be forcing their products where they are 20:44 20 minutes, 44 seconds not making any margin to shut then it will help us but it is too early for us to make any forecast or comment on that. 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds and understanding the power cost savings. So we we draw solar uh we invested in solar and we try to uh have 21:03 21 minutes, 3 seconds a savings benefit of 40 to 50 KS. So uh is this quarter we have drawn around 12 15 K of savings from power or we are 21:12 21 minutes, 12 seconds still mature to get the understanding correct? 21:16 21 minutes, 16 seconds See uh the number was never 50 crs. The number when we assessed and got into this uh you know substitution by you 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds know uh and went into the decision was around uh around reaching up to 40 crores but that had a different uh 21:31 21 minutes, 31 seconds dynamics so far as T&B prices and coal prices were concerned right now what we guided uh you know last time was around 21:40 21 minutes, 40 seconds 25 to 30 cr number. I think if you see our numbers this year with the volumes which we have achieved uh we have still 21:49 21 minutes, 49 seconds our power cost in the face of the financials will be 78% less there's an incremental volume effect there is a coal price which has gone up from last 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds year to this year so negating the coal price increase effect negating the volume effect which has an impact on 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds power cost our power cost in absolute terms are still lower uh on the year level by 7 crores So according to our 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds estimates the savings would have been around 23 24. 22:18 22 minutes, 18 seconds But we can and are we planning to invest in solar going forward for this year or 22:25 22 minutes, 25 seconds uh we are still in a uh we we are on uh likely mode that we do or not to do. 22:32 22 minutes, 32 seconds So far as the investment uh goes uh we would come up with some investment uh proposition but as and when we do we'll 22:41 22 minutes, 41 seconds let you know. We will be the first thing to include all our shareholders uh you know given an information but as been 22:48 22 minutes, 48 seconds told we going a bit slow because we want to tide over the uncertainty so far as this Iran war is going on and then we we 22:55 22 minutes, 55 seconds have our plans for the investments going forward for this year and maybe couple of years to come. Apart from this, we 23:03 23 minutes, 3 seconds also have waiting for a clarity on the regulatory uh related matters because there are there were some regulatory changes 23:10 23 minutes, 10 seconds announced by the Tangeno in Tamil Nadu wherein the banking rules got changed. 23:16 23 minutes, 16 seconds So we are waiting for a clarification on that because entire dynamics will depend on extent to which we are able to offset the renewable over the TNB rates. 23:28 23 minutes, 28 seconds Got it sir. And sir in our initial remarks we have said uh said that there was a uh narrower of spread on in PVC 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds and CPU. So in the current situation are we are we able to get the pre-war type 23:43 23 minutes, 43 seconds of spread or we are still in the early we are getting a narrower spread uh than the previous than the last month. 23:53 23 minutes, 53 seconds The spreads have improved. It is it has gone back to the pre-war. What has happened is that that there was a spike in the PBC prices in the month of March. 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second So that was a passover was not happening in the CPPC. That's why we have seen a contraction in our uh profit numbers on 24:09 24 minutes, 9 seconds CPVC which we feel that in the coming quarter we'll regularize normalize. 24:16 24 minutes, 16 seconds Got it. Got it. Got it. And my last question is are we see are we still facing dumping issues from Malaysia for 24:23 24 minutes, 23 seconds PC or we are seeing easing out there from their treatment. 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds Dumping issues are there from everywhere for all the products we have dumping issues. So that's a a separate uh I 24:36 24 minutes, 36 seconds think we can have a separate debate on that. Dumping issues are there but what no issue. Uh thank you so much. 24:45 24 minutes, 45 seconds I will join back in the queue. Thank you so much for all all my queries. Thank you governor. Thank you. 24:53 24 minutes, 53 seconds Next question is from the line of Keshar from counter cyclical PMS. Please proceed. 24:59 24 minutes, 59 seconds Sir, I wanted to get clarity on a couple of things. Firstly, our net debt seems to be around 80 cr but the annual 25:07 25 minutes, 7 seconds interest cost is uh in the vicinity of around 60 crores. Sir, so going forward for F27, what is the finance cost number that you have in mind? 25:19 25 minutes, 19 seconds See the finance cost uh which uh which is 62 crores this year uh has an effect 25:26 25 minutes, 26 seconds not only on the net debt which you see it has also the net debts are distributed into two parts. One is the 25:33 25 minutes, 33 seconds long-term term debt which interest is gradually coming down as we are repaying and as we have we have been maintaining 25:41 25 minutes, 41 seconds a 200 cr of cash in the balance sheet there is uh and the working capital challenges have come up over the couple 25:48 25 minutes, 48 seconds of quarters. We have a separate line of credit which we have taken without uh 25:55 25 minutes, 55 seconds you know in uh without uh uh infringing our internal uh strategy of keeping 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds around 5% of the top line in cash there is a negative carry. So if you have to see my interest cost you please also 26:09 26 minutes, 9 seconds reduce my interest income to find what is my debt overall. You may not see the benefit of the interest cost reduction 26:18 26 minutes, 18 seconds but over the period of last 2 three years to the extent of the debt reduction but you have to also take into cognizance what is the other income or 26:27 26 minutes, 27 seconds the interest income which has increased over the two three years. So we're deliberately keeping a negative spread because as a internal financial policies 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds we're keeping around 200 crores kind of FD for which we are running interest for next year also for next year also we 26:44 26 minutes, 44 seconds are we are we're keeping the philosophy ofund 26:49 26 minutes, 49 seconds 200 cr as uh you know fds and basis that the and the repayments which are planned 26:57 26 minutes, 57 seconds out the interest cost should go down by around 123 clause. Now having said that we also have to see how uh the pressure 27:06 27 minutes, 6 seconds on our short-term working capital comes in through if the war continues that will have an effect of interest cost increase because we'll borrow some 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds credit we utilize some credit lines to support the working capital function. So roughly it should go down to 50 crores 27:20 27 minutes, 20 seconds if we are not having very much challenged by the working capital borrowing lines. uh we have to 27:28 27 minutes, 28 seconds keep it open for longer. If that is not the case, it should be for 50 C of 50. 27:34 27 minutes, 34 seconds Understood, sir. Sir and we had uh a uh uh estimation for FY27 for roughly 2500 27:43 27 minutes, 43 seconds K topline and 400 crit and net debtree by the end of FY27. So are we on track to achieve all these parameters? 27:52 27 minutes, 52 seconds See scheduled debt repayment for next year is again 130 crores. So obviously we will be debt free because we have a 71 crores of net debt. So net debt 28:02 28 minutes, 2 seconds obviously will be debt free. The only challenge what we find is the 400 cr number which we have planned for which we had communicated as a part of the you 28:11 28 minutes, 11 seconds know I mean couple of years plan that actually gets bit derailed because of the pricing pressures which we are seeing both in the commodity segment and 28:20 28 minutes, 20 seconds more importantly on the speciality segment. We have tried to maintain the absolute value of specialtity profit by 28:26 28 minutes, 26 seconds increasing volumes from of CPBC from 10 to 20 20 to 40. Now we have also announced a 10K uh commissioning of the 28:34 28 minutes, 34 seconds last uh phase which we had communicated to uh to all our stakeholders that also will be in place. So the only thing is 28:42 28 minutes, 42 seconds that we are definitely not seeing the benefits of the increased CPVC uh volumes commercialization volumes because uh a large part of it is eaten 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds up by the price erosions which we did not anticipate when we gave you a 400 cr of uh guidance but debt number uh as as 29:01 29 minutes, 1 second as we discussed uh if it's 71 and 13130 odd cr of schedule payment we will be net c cash positive company 29:10 29 minutes, 10 seconds so 300 K AITA proper 27 looks reasonable. 29:17 29 minutes, 17 seconds We would not be able to give you a guidance on that because uh the prices movement has an impact. You have to 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds please understand that uh we are a upstream B2B business. Our downstream prices does not reflect uh in line or 29:33 29 minutes, 33 seconds tandem with the upstream the sale prices. So if the sale prices of commodity chemicals remains elevated and 29:41 29 minutes, 41 seconds goes up, we will have we will have we will have profits which we cannot anticipate at the moment. So we are trying to whatever we are trying to do 29:49 29 minutes, 49 seconds is we're trying to exhaust our capacity, produce to the fullest and sell to the fullest and and see how the prices shape 29:56 29 minutes, 56 seconds up right that will be because fixed costs are in control. We're trying to do all efficiency improvement drives which 30:03 30 minutes, 3 seconds which reduces our fixed cut cost or keeps it in control. That's what we can do as an organization but today it's very volatile in terms of pricing of 30:11 30 minutes, 11 seconds both our raw materials and finished goods which we sell. So giving a number would be difficult but uh I mean but we 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds are we well placed to tide over this term if if this war continues for long that much I can say. 30:26 30 minutes, 26 seconds Sure sir. Now coming to our investor presentation page number 134 which shows the capacity utilization uh product wise 30:34 30 minutes, 34 seconds it seems that uh in almost all the products we are at or near full utilization. So I understand the CPVC 30:44 30 minutes, 44 seconds volumes we have increased capacity. So in effort 27 we can see some volume growth. So but in rest of the all the 30:51 30 minutes, 51 seconds products uh are we at by and large the uh I mean how much incremental volume growth can happen from FY26 uh levels. 31:04 31 minutes, 4 seconds So as you rightly pointed out this year we are more more or less at capacity for the SIOP. The two products where we were chasing capacity was CPVC where we were 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds doing capex and you know increasing volumes si where we did a debottleneck from 18 to 28 and we moved on to 24,000 31:21 31 minutes, 21 seconds last year now almost you know I mean almost capacity sale this time so there is no much scope of capacity expansion 31:28 31 minutes, 28 seconds in any products and thereby giving uh you know revenues or or ITA except for 31:35 31 minutes, 35 seconds CPBC and hence we we are in a We are in a place where we have to announce our kixes which is uh in line uh which is 31:44 31 minutes, 44 seconds which has been sorted but we're just waiting out for this couple of months for the uh geopolitics to play out to its fullest. At the same time we have 31:52 31 minutes, 52 seconds done certain investments in SOP wherein we are moving for not growth in volumes 31:59 31 minutes, 59 seconds but moving to value added products wherein we we think that there will be some amount of incremental margin which 32:06 32 minutes, 6 seconds could be expected to flow and directionally going forward will we do capex only in the specialtity side 32:14 32 minutes, 14 seconds which is CTBC or in the commodity side as well we are open. 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds So uh uh in the commodity side it will be more capexes for efficiencies not for volume. Uh the capexes which will come 32:29 32 minutes, 29 seconds for growth predominantly as of now a thought process is to make it in the speciality segment or in the niche 32:36 32 minutes, 36 seconds segment with related chemistries. So so that as and when you know we are uh we've just a bit comfortable with this 32:45 32 minutes, 45 seconds geopolitics we will announce and inform all our stakeholders. You have to only understand that as we are closing this year we are in the you know the most 32:53 32 minutes, 53 seconds deleveraged balance sheet over many many years or many decades maybe. So we have and our legacy loan gets over by by you 33:02 33 minutes, 2 seconds know this year end which eventually gives us a lot of headroom to uh you know take take a good capex size and you 33:11 33 minutes, 11 seconds know take the company forward but we just holding back because we just want to see the geopolitics how it shapes up and accordingly take an informed decision so far as KX is concerned. 33:22 33 minutes, 22 seconds Now coming to the CPVC uh division where we have incurred capex but so have all the other industry uh players I 33:30 33 minutes, 30 seconds understand epigral has done a significant capex lubiz all reliance grassim so so now all that capacity is 33:39 33 minutes, 39 seconds coming at the same time and please uh let me know if I missed any other player uh which is also bringing some uh 33:48 33 minutes, 48 seconds capacity so so what is the total capacity in the pipeline of CPVC uh which is expected to get commissioned 33:56 33 minutes, 56 seconds and even globally if you could shed some light that is there any significant capacity in the pipeline globally also. 34:02 34 minutes, 2 seconds So, so and basically what will be the demand supply? I mean uh is there a chance of a glut in CPVC specifically 34:12 34 minutes, 12 seconds on the companies which you have named presently even if epigral has come in epigral and our volume is put together still leaves a lot of headroom for 34:20 34 minutes, 20 seconds import of CPVC into the country for the domestic requirement itself. So with the capacities which has been informed by loop resolve which comes in we don't see 34:29 34 minutes, 29 seconds by the time it comes in there will be any mismatch in domestic production versus domestic demand. So, so that's 34:38 34 minutes, 38 seconds where we are comfortable as of now uh you know with the fact that if if and when epigral comes comes with the full 34:46 34 minutes, 46 seconds capacity and rubies all comes with the full capacity we would not be challenged in placing our volumes. 34:55 34 minutes, 55 seconds So lastly our power cost is 307 cr rupees. So out of which power and fuel so out of which how much is power cost? 35:06 35 minutes, 6 seconds I mean that breakup we generally do not give but we we take your question and come back if request s what where I'm 35:14 35 minutes, 14 seconds coming from is that since we have 2 and a half thousand acre land so what is 35:21 35 minutes, 21 seconds stopping us from just uh putting solar capacity and basically captively 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds generating uh this uh I mean and and and stop taking uh this power from the state electricity 35:35 35 minutes, 35 seconds So state electricity wood and fossil fuel is a stable source of power. Solar gives power only in the in the morning. 35:42 35 minutes, 42 seconds So we have to so there is a very unique balancing which goes in most of the time when you when we take alternate power 35:49 35 minutes, 49 seconds there's a lot of effort which goes into in either side to understand what is the power timing of supply whether we blend 35:57 35 minutes, 57 seconds it with solar and wind or not then also what is the flow of supply because we cannot keep our uh you know plant 36:05 36 minutes, 5 seconds operating based on power supply fluctuations. So so so it it is not that easy. we have substituted 25% of our 36:13 36 minutes, 13 seconds power. Uh there is future capexes which comes in and steam which is required at the plant is not given from solar power. 36:20 36 minutes, 20 seconds It's not generated. So eventually and you have your captive boilers in place. 36:25 36 minutes, 25 seconds You have your TNB. So it's not a very simple math to do that we'll substitute all the power from you know TNB to 36:32 36 minutes, 32 seconds electricity board to us because in any case we have to do the wheeling. So it's a lot of complex calculation. It's it's it's not uh as easy we think. Secondly 36:41 36 minutes, 41 seconds is we are trying this with for 20 long years right so today it may look lucrative we have to do a balanced approach in terms of how much 36:50 36 minutes, 50 seconds substitution of TNB we do from solar and what is your power requirement power capacity from your own power plant. 37:00 37 minutes So so that that that math goes in. Yeah sir. And lastly if you could just tell us that for each of our products what is 37:09 37 minutes, 9 seconds the starting raw material that we are buying from outside? 37:15 37 minutes, 15 seconds See PVC we have been very vocal about uh you know in in PCM. So sodash we have limestone it's very openly available in 37:24 37 minutes, 24 seconds the market. So CPGBC becomes PVC. Uh costic becomes salt and water and what else? I think iron oxide is 37:32 37 minutes, 32 seconds iron oxide is you know iron there and synthetic root 37:42 37 minutes, 42 seconds or is the starting material. So that is also procured locally only 37:48 37 minutes, 48 seconds and we use HCL along with that. So out of all of these that you just uh named 37:55 37 minutes, 55 seconds sir we are like we have our own minds of uh which all products uh are we sourcing captively? 38:04 38 minutes, 4 seconds No, no. Salt is captive. Coal we are sourcing from Indonesia. 38:11 38 minutes, 11 seconds Synthetic rotile for eliminate or we are sourcing from Indians. 38:16 38 minutes, 16 seconds So for PVC we are importing VCM and for CPVC we are using the PVC produced by us. 38:24 38 minutes, 24 seconds Understood sir. Thank you very much. Thank you. 38:28 38 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. In order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participant in the question queue, 38:36 38 minutes, 36 seconds please restrict yourself to two questions only. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. 38:43 38 minutes, 43 seconds Next question is from the line of Abhinav from Equitas Investments. Please go ahead. 38:49 38 minutes, 49 seconds Uh hi. So my first question was regarding costic soda. Can you tell me what were the realizations in Q4 and what are the current ECU realizations? 38:59 38 minutes, 59 seconds ization in Q4 Q4 Q4 Q4 I think it was around $350 39:08 39 minutes, 8 seconds and as we talk in Q in Q1 the decision is in the north of 400 $400. 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds Uh have there been any capacities globally shut down because the chlorine production has been reduced because of PVC? 39:29 39 minutes, 29 seconds Again I'm not I'm not able to hear you. 39:30 39 minutes, 30 seconds Can you please repeat your question please? Have you seen any capacity closures or reduced capacity utilization 39:38 39 minutes, 38 seconds in costing globally because uh of that because chlorine is not getting diverted to PVC and what will be the current realization? 39:49 39 minutes, 49 seconds No, no, there have been some capacity closures in the Europe of PVC uh which will ultimately result in a 39:57 39 minutes, 57 seconds corresponding capacity closure of costic sora. But we have not seen any significant closure of capacity of costic sora as yet. 40:07 40 minutes, 7 seconds Okay. And what the chlorine derization currently chlorine we don't send any chlorine it's not relevant for us because that's 40:14 40 minutes, 14 seconds one transition which we have done as an organization over the years we have now been a chlorine neutral uh facility down 40:23 40 minutes, 23 seconds south but that would be around 8,000 rupees I negative 40:30 40 minutes, 30 seconds maybe maybe market factor yes maybe 7 8,000 negative 8,000 and 40:38 40 minutes, 38 seconds For costic it is 100% domestic or do we export because we are in terms of costic 40:45 40 minutes, 45 seconds the entire supply is higher than the demand with the current we also exporting and costic for us we 40:52 40 minutes, 52 seconds also export because we are also port based so always we have an option of selling to a domestic user uh in the east coast of India or export the 41:01 41 minutes, 1 second product to Southeast Asia so we have been doing both on and off whenever there is demand uh from any of the customers uh 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds in the east coast mainly the aluminina companies or we export it to uh some of our customers in Southeast Asia 41:16 41 minutes, 16 seconds and why has our capacity utilization in Q4 reduced from 96 to 90% for costic 41:25 41 minutes, 25 seconds that is because of some maintenance outage to do no no problem in the demand right because I've heard that in paper and 41:33 41 minutes, 33 seconds textile people have cailed capac capacities and those two segments being the highest user for costic. Are we seeing any demand issues there? 41:42 41 minutes, 42 seconds Costic as you may be knowing costic soda is 50% water. So the ability of any producer to sell uh sell their product 41:50 41 minutes, 50 seconds will be within the 300 kilometers radius. The remaining of the product is only sold as a bulk shipment uh to 41:58 41 minutes, 58 seconds either a bulk consumer like Nalco or Vdanta or to any of the customer in the 42:05 42 minutes, 5 seconds Southeast Asia or Europe or some other market. So yes there has been a demand dipu uh because of the lower uptake uh 42:14 42 minutes, 14 seconds from the sector that you have mentioned but there has been no production curtailment because of uh the demand dip 42:21 42 minutes, 21 seconds uh but that uh we have seen and all said and done these sectors are not very big consumers of plastic soda. 42:28 42 minutes, 28 seconds The main consumption comes from the aluminina industry which is doing very very good. of water. 42:36 42 minutes, 36 seconds And in terms of soda ash, uh with the China coming up with a newer capacity and then Mongolia having the newer uh 42:44 42 minutes, 44 seconds natural bases, have we heard of any material capacities going off in China 42:51 42 minutes, 51 seconds and are they still import exporting to us? 42:55 42 minutes, 55 seconds No, frankly there's not. Main imports in India used to be from Iran and Russia as I mentioned earlier which is not 43:04 43 minutes, 4 seconds happening now and China has never is not a very big exporter of soda. So there's 43:11 43 minutes, 11 seconds not much of issues from China and all said and done because of the increases in the freight rates and everything the 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds prices are pretty healthy today. What would be the current sash prices? 43:24 43 minutes, 24 seconds Sorry, what would be the current sodash prices? 43:28 43 minutes, 28 seconds See, today the import price is in the vicinity of about $250. 43:33 43 minutes, 33 seconds Got it. Okay, thank you Dr. from I'll get back in you for further discussion. 43:40 43 minutes, 40 seconds Thank you. 43:42 43 minutes, 42 seconds Next question is from the line of Manish Barani from 361 Capital. Please go ahead. 43:49 43 minutes, 49 seconds Uh thanks for the opportunity sir. Uh so if I look at the slide number 20 so our ROC is around 8.56%. 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds So it is even we post update like 9 to 10% is a post update that simmer in India. So what are the stakes we are 44:06 44 minutes, 6 seconds taken taking to improve the ROC going forward. 44:10 44 minutes, 10 seconds So we have to only go into products which are you know high margin and lower KX. That's the only way to increase your ROC. We are into business of costic PVC. 44:21 44 minutes, 21 seconds So as for many years now the investments there is no much investments the ROC is 44:28 44 minutes, 28 seconds a function of profit wherein if the business conditions or the prices go up you'll see the profit going up and 44:35 44 minutes, 35 seconds automatically ROC getting uh moving upwards. Now so far as what we can do as 44:42 44 minutes, 42 seconds an organization is only ensure that we do uh investments which are of high 44:48 44 minutes, 48 seconds margin or high ROC that means uh I mean higher capital turnover ratio and also higher margin business which gives you a 44:56 44 minutes, 56 seconds higher ROC. So that's what that's what had triggered our investments into SIOP and uh uh investment into CPBC which 45:05 45 minutes, 5 seconds obviously is much lower as an investment payback period roughly for the incremental capacities what we did was 45:12 45 minutes, 12 seconds around 2 years uh or 2 and a half years even at current prices. So that would have already been baked in. But what you 45:20 45 minutes, 20 seconds need to understand is that the ROC for us as an organization despite our proportion of the speciality chemicals 45:28 45 minutes, 28 seconds going up is low because the commodity chemicals are at its bottom cycle. If you place this ROC with the prices of 45:35 45 minutes, 35 seconds which we got for commodities in 2023 24 then the ROC will be north of 14 15%. 45:44 45 minutes, 44 seconds Okay. Okay sir. Thank you so much. That's it. Thank you. 45:52 45 minutes, 52 seconds Next question is from the line of Madurati from Counteryical Investments. Please go ahead. 45:58 45 minutes, 58 seconds So thank you for the opportunity sir. I wanted to understand you uh you mentioned that there has been some uh spread improvement and realization improvement in SIOP and synthetic root. 46:08 46 minutes, 8 seconds So what are uh what led to this improvement and what are the current realizations for these products? 46:17 46 minutes, 17 seconds IOP I don't think there is a spread improvement we told on PBC and uh uh you 46:23 46 minutes, 23 seconds know CP uh PB TV PVC CPVC spread on SIOP what we told is that we are making uh you know we are moving to higher value 46:32 46 minutes, 32 seconds added products in which case we can command a better margin uh uh in those products so the volume may not increase. 46:41 46 minutes, 41 seconds Coming to your other product which you asked was on synthetic uh rootile the prices uh depends on the mix to which we export. 46:52 46 minutes, 52 seconds It's a 100% export business. When we are exporting into China we don't get those prices. When we export into you know our 47:02 47 minutes, 2 seconds our existing customers who have been I mean who have been taking X of China their prices are better off. So if we 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds can have our share of sales more into X of China, the mix gives us a better 47:17 47 minutes, 17 seconds realization and hence uh a better margin. We we we believe that we've got 47:24 47 minutes, 24 seconds certain of exchina customers uh long-term contracts which we are building up and hence the margins uh 47:32 47 minutes, 32 seconds should stay elevated just because of a better weighted average price which we will uh achieve from sale of synthetic retire. 47:43 47 minutes, 43 seconds Got it. Sir, what were the realization and spread for both of these product in Q4 and what are they currently? 47:51 47 minutes, 51 seconds See these for a synthetic root you cannot see a quarter because it depends on how is the skewing of the sales 47:58 47 minutes, 58 seconds across uh across the across the full year. Now for SR as a product we have 48:05 48 minutes, 5 seconds never been uh giving it because it's it's a part subsumed in your costic business and now costic is a part of 48:13 48 minutes, 13 seconds the basic chemicals. The whole idea is basically what we can tell you is that the the is the the spread should stay 48:21 48 minutes, 21 seconds elevated for synthetic rotile for this year compared to last year which will give us some incremental profits 48:28 48 minutes, 28 seconds compared to what we have closed in this financial year. 48:33 48 minutes, 33 seconds SIO3 we had already communicated when we were commun when we were showing that as a you know a separate segment earlier 48:40 48 minutes, 40 seconds our margins were around 35 to 40% we still continue to get those margins 48:50 48 minutes, 50 seconds there was a major improvement in sorry Mr. Rati, may we please request you to rejoin the queue sir for the followup question. 48:57 48 minutes, 57 seconds Thank you. 49:00 49 minutes Next question is from the line of Pranit Bhachetti, an individual investor. Please go ahead. 49:08 49 minutes, 8 seconds Uh hi uh thank you for the opportunity. 49:10 49 minutes, 10 seconds The management has previously noted the fact that we have been facing a lot of pressures in terms of dumping. Could you explain what kind of how is it different 49:17 49 minutes, 17 seconds between the specialty was it commodity dumping and which countries is it split between and what kind of margin compression is the company has been able 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds to take has we needed to take because of this dumping force. 49:31 49 minutes, 31 seconds We had filed couple of petitions uh for dumping support from the government on 49:38 49 minutes, 38 seconds PBC and on sodash and on both the products despite uh there was a positive finding where those uh duties never got implemented. 49:49 49 minutes, 49 seconds uh we had a case in CBBC of uh dumped imports coming from China and Korea for which we had got a favorable dumping 49:58 49 minutes, 58 seconds duty uh levid a couple of years back. So this is a phenomenon which keeps on and off based on the demand supply 50:07 50 minutes, 7 seconds imbalances from those respective exporting countries. So there cannot be any standard guidelines. But what about the speciality? 50:15 50 minutes, 15 seconds Speciality there are no dumpings. Now only in CPVC we had a dumping duty case. 50:20 50 minutes, 20 seconds But inoxide there is no dumping. In fact we are exporting the product. So 50:29 50 minutes, 29 seconds understood. And one last question regarding the cap table like regard what is the exact association? Is there an 50:36 50 minutes, 36 seconds association with the times group versus our promoter uh promoters? Could you explain the relationship? Is there any more further relationship with thanks? 50:45 50 minutes, 45 seconds I think all these things better you write to our uh uh uh PR company secretary he will explain to 50:52 50 minutes, 52 seconds you. I think it is nothing to do with the business. 50:56 50 minutes, 56 seconds And last question in terms of operational margin efficiencies are we at it are we at our peak because I think most of our utilization utilization is 51:04 51 minutes, 4 seconds the highest it can be. So going forward without the price increase our margins are going to stay in the same range right is that a right understanding? 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds Uh yeah it would because uh as we told that uh uh there is a 10 10 KT of additional volumes of CBC which kicks in 51:21 51 minutes, 21 seconds which takes care of uh you know the incre increased growth for next year growth growth per se. uh there are uh 51:29 51 minutes, 29 seconds certain factors which we think uh would help us in terms of margin improvement like as we told and discussed that we 51:38 51 minutes, 38 seconds are getting into long-term contracts with exchina SR sales which eventually increases our weighted average net realizations for the product and thereby 51:47 51 minutes, 47 seconds the margins or the profitability we see certain price increases which are we which we expect are to be here for 51:55 51 minutes, 55 seconds couple of quarters so far as costic and Soda ash is concerned but at the same time we see that there is a bit of a 52:02 52 minutes, 2 seconds challenge so far as VC and PBC spread is concerned and also PBCC PVC spread is concerned. We are we trying to see how 52:11 52 minutes, 11 seconds the pricing is played out uh and accordingly take uh decisions on the on on the procurement as well as the sales 52:19 52 minutes, 19 seconds side. But I think uh there there are chances and there are more ch more 52:26 52 minutes, 26 seconds opportunities for us to increase the operating profit for next year than than than what we have achieved 52:36 52 minutes, 36 seconds but uh so can you list out those I understand the long-term contracts you'll get a better weighted average apart from that operationally what can 52:43 52 minutes, 43 seconds we do because you told about 10 KP of additional volumes for CBBC which comes in which we hope to 52:50 52 minutes, 50 seconds face the volumes and we will derive an annual benefit out of it because while though we commissioned the plant in uh 52:58 52 minutes, 58 seconds you know March uh end uh we think that uh we will scale up pretty quickly with with our experience of first 20 to 40 K. 53:07 53 minutes, 7 seconds So more or less an annualized benefit of additional volumes and margin absolute profit should go up there. There is some effect as I told of the weighted average 53:16 53 minutes, 16 seconds uh uh contract prices for SR while uh 53:22 53 minutes, 22 seconds while in costic and uh so dash we expect the prices to stay elevated there will be some amount of dip so far as VC and 53:30 53 minutes, 30 seconds BBC is concerned and that is predominantly do with the you know this war to see how things shape up so I think apart from that we don't have a 53:39 53 minutes, 39 seconds lever of capacity because doing we are doing almost the capacity utilization Whatever whenever we are you know doing 53:46 53 minutes, 46 seconds a capeex seamlessly you commercializing them we have to wait for the next round of capeex which we have to announce and that also has to do with the fact that 53:54 53 minutes, 54 seconds how the the geopolitics shapes up in the Middle East but uh understood sir one last question 54:02 54 minutes, 2 seconds regarding our potential expansion to other chemicals and specialtity is there any near-term the company has in terms of intention to expand into new 54:10 54 minutes, 10 seconds chemicals or will it be expanding the specialy chemicals we already have in the next five years. 54:17 54 minutes, 17 seconds Speciality chemical growth which will come would e would has to be in related chemistry. This synergy comes either by 54:24 54 minutes, 24 seconds util utilizing the your uh your marketing leverage or your chemical understanding of the product. That's the 54:33 54 minutes, 33 seconds second one. And thirdly very importantly where theatically we want to see this organization 5 years or 7 years hence. 54:39 54 minutes, 39 seconds Putting all this into practice, we have relatively uh high drawing board discussions on certain products which we can you know venture into. You have to 54:49 54 minutes, 49 seconds please wait for us to come and communicate you officially. Understood sir. Uh thank you so much. 54:56 54 minutes, 56 seconds That's that's it from my side. Thank you. 54:59 54 minutes, 59 seconds Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants to ask a question you may press star and one. 55:08 55 minutes, 8 seconds Next follow-up question is from the line of Madhurati from Counteryclical Investments. Please go ahead. 55:14 55 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you for the opportunity once again. So, so if I look at our Y or Y aa from the specialtity chemical segment, 55:22 55 minutes, 22 seconds so is it fair to assume that whatever decline that we saw in the spread composition for CPVC, PVC uh was 55:32 55 minutes, 32 seconds mitigated or offset by SR spread improvement. Is that a fair understanding? SR is not a part of our specialtity. 55:40 55 minutes, 40 seconds What happened is that the spread contraction of see the specialtity business is two products which is SOP 55:46 55 minutes, 46 seconds and uh CPVC. These were separate segments but we are clubbed into one. 55:52 55 minutes, 52 seconds What has happened is the spread the spread contraction of PVC to CPVC has been mitigated by the volume increase of 56:01 56 minutes, 1 second CPVC which is basically which we did around about 22,000 tons. This year we are doing around 37 38,000 tons. So the 56:10 56 minutes, 10 seconds volumes more or less has doubled so far as CPBC is concerned. That helped helped us almost meet the numbers even despite the BBC CPVC uh uh spread contraction. 56:21 56 minutes, 21 seconds Anything more to add? 56:22 56 minutes, 22 seconds No no he what he says is this is you are asking about the quarter 4 in specific quarter four. No sir I was asking about why or 56:29 56 minutes, 29 seconds why there has been a flattish a bit closer to 180 k. So I was trying to understand what has been the spread compression in CVC, CPVC and what has 56:38 56 minutes, 38 seconds been improvement in SIOP. So I thought that synthetic brutal and only SOP. 56:45 56 minutes, 45 seconds So see SOP we have increased the volumes by uh 30%. And TPVC we have increased the volumes almost double 60 70%. 56:55 56 minutes, 55 seconds Okay. Uh so that has been mitigated by the price correction only in CPBC which 57:03 57 minutes, 3 seconds did not have a consumer and input CPVC price correction which basically means the BBC CPVC spread 57:10 57 minutes, 10 seconds came under contraction that contraction was mitigated by the additional volumes which we produced and so on. So that's the way it has turned out. 57:19 57 minutes, 19 seconds Got it. And so on our CPU segment sir how what is the extent of capacity closure that you mentioned that has 57:27 57 minutes, 27 seconds happened in Europe and so how's our feed stock availability currently that we import we don't import any feed stock 57:36 57 minutes, 36 seconds no s I'm talking about PVC yeah PVC there is we don't import PVC also we import VCL we produce PVC and we 57:46 57 minutes, 46 seconds use those PVC in making our CPVC Yes. So I was asking about sorry to interrupt Mr. maybe please this 57:54 57 minutes, 54 seconds is a clarification this is just a clarification I think uh there was some um so so I'm trying to understand what has been the capacity closure in PVC 58:02 58 minutes, 2 seconds that you mentioned that has happened in Europe and what is the feed stock availability of VCM for our PVC segment is it available or are we facing 58:10 58 minutes, 10 seconds shortages for this uh uh VCM for our PVC segment no see one is that we used to source our 58:18 58 minutes, 18 seconds feed stock maj majorly from middle because of the Gulf War that supply which has been the closest logistically 58:26 58 minutes, 26 seconds is not coming. So our contracts were all put on pause. So to tide over the situation we are proturing the street 58:34 58 minutes, 34 seconds stock. There has been no issue in the production but it is coming at a high cost. Uh which which we are finding it difficult to pass on in our finished 58:42 58 minutes, 42 seconds product which is PVC. This is a temporary phase. So there has been and and even if there has been a plan closure in the Europe technically the 58:50 58 minutes, 50 seconds product VCM cannot come to India because of the the logistics cost because it's a pretty long distance and VCM comes in a 58:58 58 minutes, 58 seconds not not comes in a container it comes in a ship so you know 59:04 59 minutes, 4 seconds logistics plays a very big cost no sir I was asking how much capacity 59:11 59 minutes, 11 seconds met has closed in Europe Euro capacity I think two plants got 59:17 59 minutes, 17 seconds closed I think uh wova is one capacity I think that is some two lakh tons which got closed and one more plant uh which I 59:27 59 minutes, 27 seconds don't recall in it got closed but this these closures happened much before the start of the west conflict it has got 59:35 59 minutes, 35 seconds nothing to do with the current geopolitical conflict these capacities got closed in the course of last here. 59:44 59 minutes, 44 seconds Right. So that was from mine. Thank you so much and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. 59:51 59 minutes, 51 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. 1:00:01 1 hour, 1 second Thank you everyone for joining our call today and hope we've been able to answer all your questions. uh if uh any further clarifications needed uh request you to 1:00:10 1 hour, 10 seconds reach out to our investor relations advisors at Valor. Thank you once again and we'll talk to you next quarter. 1:00:19 1 hour, 19 seconds Thanks. 1:00:21 1 hour, 21 seconds Thank you very much sir. On behalf of Arian Capital Markets Limited that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.