Control Print Limited — Q3 FY26

Control Print Ltd Q3 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaBsR-fNebs Published: 3 months ago

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Captify Consulting investor relations team, I welcome you all to the Q3 and 9 0:08 8 seconds months FI26 post earnings conference call of Control Print Limited. Today on the call from the management team, we have with us Mr. 0:17 17 seconds Shiva Kabra, joint managing director and Mr. Jedi Burb, chief financial officer. 0:23 23 seconds As a disclaimer, I would like to inform all of you that this call may contain forward-looking statements which may involve risk and uncertainties. Also, a 0:32 32 seconds reminder that this call is being recorded. I would now request the management to brief us about the business and performance highlights for 0:39 39 seconds the period ended December 2025, the growth perspective and vision for the coming year. Post which we will open the 0:46 46 seconds floor for Q&A over to the management team. 0:53 53 seconds Yeah. Uh, good afternoon everybody. My name is Jagi Perve and I work as the chief financial officer of Contropinion Limited. Welcome you all to the earnings 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds conference call for the third quarter of FI2526. 1:05 1 minute, 5 seconds At the outset, let me wish you a happy and prosperous 2026. 1:09 1 minute, 9 seconds We appreciate that you have taken up time from your busy schedule to attend this call. Mr. Shiva Kabra the joint managing director of control prohibited 1:18 1 minute, 18 seconds also joins me on this call. For first time joiners on the earnings call more information about our company can be 1:25 1 minute, 25 seconds obtained by visiting our website. Just for information, the detailed presentation has already been put up on the website as well as in the investor presentation notification on the for. 1:37 1 minute, 37 seconds So let me provide you some highlights of the performance of CPL on a consolidated on on a standalone basis for the third quarter of FI26 2526. 1:47 1 minute, 47 seconds On a standalone basis, the total revenue till Q3 is approximately 322 crores, which is a good growth from 1:56 1 minute, 56 seconds approximately 280 crores till quarter 3 of FI2425. 2:00 2 minutes Just for information, the total revenue for FI 2425, 2324 and 2423 was rupees 2:08 2 minutes, 8 seconds 395 crores, 347 crores and 295 crores respectively. 2:13 2 minutes, 13 seconds Regarding the operating revenue this is 109 crores for the third quarter 2:20 2 minutes, 20 seconds corresponding period of FI 2425 this was 94 crores coding and marking represents 92% of the business there is there has 2:29 2 minutes, 29 seconds been a steady growth in the coding and marking segment pipes food healthcare dies steel and metal cable and wire continue to be our top performing 2:38 2 minutes, 38 seconds business verticals we are market leaders in cement private to sugar and diet dairy. The business outlook remains bold for the track and trace division in FI2526. 2:48 2 minutes, 48 seconds We have developed new solutions and acquisition of new customers has been of another plus point. We are getting good traction in the co-acking activities in 2:57 2 minutes, 57 seconds the packaging division. A pipeline is also regenerated for new machines, laminates and co-acking. 3:04 3 minutes, 4 seconds The mask club lab has now been re-established into a safety division along with masks, 3:10 3 minutes, 10 seconds hard hats, arc flashs, helmets, gloves, blankets, etc. were also sold this quarter. On a standalone basis, the cost 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds of goods sold is around 41% 42% 43% of the operating revenues in Q3, Q2 and Q4 respectively. Just for comparison, for 3:27 3 minutes, 27 seconds the entire year of FI 2425, the COGS was approximately 42%. 3:33 3 minutes, 33 seconds That said, we remain committed to optimize the procurement costs and also look closely into the economy, efficiency and effectiveness of 3:41 3 minutes, 41 seconds operations. This we feel can definitely lead to reduction in the operating costs thereby increasing in the gross margin. 3:48 3 minutes, 48 seconds Manufacturing costs are approximately 2% of the operating revenue. In the earlier periods this was around 3%. [snorts] 3:55 3 minutes, 55 seconds Employee costs are 19% 16% 18% of the operating revenue in Q3, Q2 and Q1 of this year respectively. Depreciation is 4:03 4 minutes, 3 seconds 4%. Uh and this is in line with the previous periods. Other expenses are 14% of the operating [clears throat] revenue 4:11 4 minutes, 11 seconds in 16 in the Q3. On an annual basis, this has remained steady at 13 to 14% in the previous periods. 4:19 4 minutes, 19 seconds Overheads will also be closely tracked with the aim to increase the overall profitability of the company. The EITA growth is at 21% YI. 4:29 4 minutes, 29 seconds PBT excluding the exceptional items was at 35% YI growth. The pack growth was lower at 4:37 4 minutes, 37 seconds 19% due to higher tax provision in this quarter. The way forward, we wish to 4:44 4 minutes, 44 seconds consolidate the existing coding and marking business. We would like to increase the install base, provide more robust solutions. uh an increase in prices has already been implemented. 4:57 4 minutes, 57 seconds We want to develop new solutions and capitalize the available market opportunities in the track and trace segment. Uh similarly, the packaging 5:04 5 minutes, 4 seconds business both in India and overseas will be closely monitored and emphasis will be in towards increase in machine sales, co- packing and the laminates. 5:13 5 minutes, 13 seconds The overseas subsidiaries will definitely be continued to be monitored with focus growth targets. We have already provided the business plans and they have been asked for execution. 5:25 5 minutes, 25 seconds I now leave the floor open for questions. We'll be happy to address them. 5:31 5 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you sir. We'll now begin the question and answer session. All those who wish to ask a question, please use the option of raise hand. 5:41 5 minutes, 41 seconds We'll wait for a moment till the question queue assembles. We'll take the first question from Mr. 5:49 5 minutes, 49 seconds Sakit Kapoor. Please go ahead. 5:56 5 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. Namaskar. Jadiv G. Namaskar Shiva sir and thank you Captify team for hosting the call. I hope I'm audible. 6:06 6 minutes, 6 seconds Yes. Yes. Yes. Sak we can hear you. 6:09 6 minutes, 9 seconds Uh so Shivas firstly if you could just explain to to us all the investors how have our foreign subsidiaries and the 6:17 6 minutes, 17 seconds consolidated uh results performance what factors have again led to the these lower profits on consolidation and 6:27 6 minutes, 27 seconds what's the road map ahead uh for you and uh I'll just come up with followup once you you start answering. H so 6:36 6 minutes, 36 seconds [clears throat] last time I said that you know we should uh have a lower loss in this quarter and almost like a break even in the Q4 6:44 6 minutes, 44 seconds uh in our foreign sub mainly the Italian one [clears throat] you know kodiology and mark print are like combined about break even so it's 6:51 6 minutes, 51 seconds not that uh important and what's happened is that uh we had you know we've come out with a new model 6:59 6 minutes, 59 seconds a new machine a new packaging machine in uh Italy uh but okay so what happened in the past I'll 7:08 7 minutes, 8 seconds explain it to you it's a long story the reason why you know uh a lot of these machines were sold in the past and I think that the quality control and that 7:16 7 minutes, 16 seconds you know getting from a 90% machine to 100% machine takes a little bit of more effort [clears throat] so what happened is we didn't want to make the repeat the same 7:25 7 minutes, 25 seconds mistake so we're you know using more of a control print style of quality control and working out here to make sure the product is extremely reliable and robust 7:34 7 minutes, 34 seconds because if that doesn't happen, you know, the customer is not going to have the confidence to take the production on it. So, we've not been able to execute 7:43 7 minutes, 43 seconds orders or or like besides one machine or something. I think in the last quarter or this I mean Q3 and and Q2. So, 7:51 7 minutes, 51 seconds because of that we have a little bit of a backlog. So, it would have the numbers would have looked better if we able to execute the orders and book the revenue 8:00 8 minutes and then of course the profit. So now we are almost like we're pretty much through the machine. We got that first one out. We've got the second one for 8:08 8 minutes, 8 seconds the for the first time in Italy. I think they're making two machines which are exactly the same. Uh and uh if this happens and hopefully we should start 8:16 8 minutes, 16 seconds actually executing a few of the orders we have like you know rather all the orders we have which will help you know make the numbers in Q4 and and maybe you 8:25 8 minutes, 25 seconds know uh Q1 of financial whatever this 20 26 27 better. So I'm 8:33 8 minutes, 33 seconds expecting that it's not like we're not on target but there's some you know 8:36 8 minutes, 36 seconds [clears throat] 8:36 8 minutes, 36 seconds uh there was some execution issues uh you know where we uh as a company you know I mean obviously for us the 8:43 8 minutes, 43 seconds technologies first and then comes all the other aspects of it. So as we do that I think that you know we're going to get a much better result uh going forward. 8:54 8 minutes, 54 seconds So, and it it's so like I think the results are slightly worse than the reality, but you know, like I said, it's not like 9:04 9 minutes, 4 seconds we're not losing money, but we should have been losing less money than what we were. So, I don't think we're too far off our guidance. I think I'd said 9:12 9 minutes, 12 seconds something like a million something euros, maybe more like a million and a half, but we're not uh we should do better. 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds So to to just understand it, it is the uh the lower absorption of cost, fixed cost that has resulted in these lower 9:27 9 minutes, 27 seconds profits on a consolidated level and and going ahead with the dispatch of the machinery which is which is there in the order book and already ready to be 9:36 9 minutes, 36 seconds dispatched. Uh we will be seeing better uh operating numbers. This should be this is a correct understanding sir. 9:43 9 minutes, 43 seconds Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. So I mean I can also tell everyone see we have like about 800,000 a year R&D cost in this is like the direct R&D you know 9:52 9 minutes, 52 seconds people are just assigned for R&D only and something else so there's also other expenses associated so if you if you 9:59 9 minutes, 59 seconds actually you know whatever R&D they're going to do is going to benefit us globally because those same products available for sale in India Asia Pacific 10:07 10 minutes, 7 seconds and you know maybe in the future North America and other places. So I will say that it's also you know [clears throat] because we expense all R&D we don't 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds capitalize anything uh because this is what we do in India and uh you know I think Jade may be a better result. I I do think that also you know uh and I 10:24 10 minutes, 24 seconds don't want to make an excuse that it's an accounting style or anything because we've followed this for a very long time. Uh so I think but it's it's also 10:33 10 minutes, 33 seconds making their talent performance look a bit worse because they're not a portioning the cost of their development to the other areas where the machines 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds are being sold. So that's where the uh the difference is now but the technology is benefiting control print worldwide if 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds you worldwide but all the costs are being aortioned to Italy. So it's also making 10:57 10 minutes, 57 seconds them look a bit worse than what they are. Thank you sir. Yeah I join the queue for the followup. 11:04 11 minutes, 4 seconds Thank you. Thank you. 11:06 11 minutes, 6 seconds Yes I request all the participants to limit their questions to two per participant. We'll take the next question from Roshi V. Please go ahead. 11:17 11 minutes, 17 seconds Uh thanks for taking my question and uh congratulations on good set of uh the topline numbers. Uh so uh my question is 11:26 11 minutes, 26 seconds uh to uh Mr. Shiva Kabra. we spoke in July when you said that uh the gross margins were impacted due to uh you know 11:34 11 minutes, 34 seconds the higher raw material cost in the packaging business. So and at that time you had said that uh you're doing some 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds R&D wherein you are trying to crack something wherein which can help you in uh some costsaving uh and that could lead to better gross 11:51 11 minutes, 51 seconds margins. So now when we see the numbers the gross margins have actually become better for the consolidated numbers but then the AIDA has actually gone down. So 11:59 11 minutes, 59 seconds I just wanted to know like uh what exactly is the scenario over here? 12:06 12 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah. So to answer your question uh what uh the situation [clears throat] is as such we're still working on the 12:13 12 minutes, 13 seconds development of the single polymer recyclable material. Uh it's now under final trials. That's also one reason the 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds machines are being delayed because the machine needs some modifications to work with this material. It doesn't work [clears throat] at the full speed but it at at least gives us an option of recyclability. 12:32 12 minutes, 32 seconds So [clears throat] uh as a result you know there are also like I said where parties machines are delayed. We are purchasing the materials 12:40 12 minutes, 40 seconds from elsewhere and selling it reselling it as per the customer's requirement and definitely when we manufacture the 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds material it'll be cheaper but also we have more focused on the recyclable material. So the margins have not 12:57 12 minutes, 57 seconds changed much in this meantime. If anything with the euro going up or something I don't know exactly something or the other it might have slightly 13:05 13 minutes, 5 seconds increased our prices would have slightly increased but you know with a slight lag so I don't know if I don't know till now 13:12 13 minutes, 12 seconds if if if there's any benefit of all of these things I think it's going to take another four months cuz we have some pilot line that we starting in Nalagard 13:20 13 minutes, 20 seconds and which we'll shift uh later so okay so but the line itself will only be delivered in in March and and probably 13:28 13 minutes, 28 seconds by the time commission is going to be like April, May. So it's it's more of a pilot line, but we'll still be taking some production out on it and it feel 13:36 13 minutes, 36 seconds relatively cheap to operate. It's just a lower volume, but we're talking about our volume will still work. Uh the second question you had one was the 13:45 13 minutes, 45 seconds margins and then [clears throat] you said something about the eBay does not flow down to the e. So yes, there is a question that's there and JP and me are looking at very closely because both the 13:53 13 minutes, 53 seconds other expenses and the employee costs have increased sharply. I know some part of the employee cost was something like gratuitity and some provisions or 14:01 14 minutes, 1 second something that has been made which [clears throat] Jedi will give you a better read on that. So that's some part of the salary cost but even if I take 14:10 14 minutes, 10 seconds that out there is a salary uh there's a significant employee benefits cost increase and the second part is that the other 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds expenses have also increased. So we actually taking a look at both of them you know uh quite closely. Uh J I don't know if you got that number somewhere in this presentation. 14:28 14 minutes, 28 seconds Um but uh so yeah so the gross margin okay it's sort of dipped to 58.1% from the 14:36 14 minutes, 36 seconds previous but I wouldn't give it too much importance right now. Uh what I I think is that the more important thing is that both the cost increase the other 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds expenses and the employee benefit expenses and now I said like I said the some part of the employee benefit expenses was some 14:52 14 minutes, 52 seconds sort of an increase in some sort of provisions uh which will tell you and then the 14:59 14 minutes, 59 seconds bigger part of the cost uh is is there some a major part of the cost is an increase in the employee benefit cost. So we need to really uh go 15:08 15 minutes, 8 seconds deep into that to be honest to understand what's uh where all these things have happened from and how this uh came about. Uh and then the other 15:17 15 minutes, 17 seconds expenses have also increased. So on both of these things you know Jade is is doing a deep dive so he's maybe maybe J can answer that question better. 15:27 15 minutes, 27 seconds All right that's quite quite helpful. 15:28 15 minutes, 28 seconds Essentially broadly you're trying to say that at a gross margin level the projects that we were uh you know trying to say it's yet to be fruitful. it is 15:36 15 minutes, 36 seconds going to take like another four months to another reflected into the gross margin. Uh if I'm understanding it correctly, yeah, it will take four months to 15:44 15 minutes, 44 seconds introduce the product and then obviously once we introduce that and our cost of manufacturing is significantly lower then obviously what we are importing 15:52 15 minutes, 52 seconds from Europe is is is basically much higher than whatever we get from here. 15:57 15 minutes, 57 seconds So um you know it'll definitely make the margins better. But what's important is that the volume of the business should increase you know in the meantime for 16:06 16 minutes, 6 seconds which the machines need to be uh placed and work perfectly. So I think that that's also so both things are important 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds but the yeah the margins will improve in the packaging business as a result of manufacturing locally. 16:20 16 minutes, 20 seconds All right. Thank you so much. That's very helpful. 16:23 16 minutes, 23 seconds Thank you Rishikesh. We'll take the next question from Vikram Hawa. Please go ahead. 16:28 16 minutes, 28 seconds Hello everyone. Good afternoon. Um uh my question is to you uh Mr. Shiva. So this is more product related. I was wondering 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds uh if laser printers pose any significant risk to the consumable business. Now I'm aware that control print does manufacture laser printers 16:45 16 minutes, 45 seconds but they don't uh from my assumption they don't really have the same sort of recurring revenue from consumables because once you supply that there's no 16:53 16 minutes, 53 seconds ink that goes in laser printers and I'm pretty and I'm aware that certain industries are for example the pipe industry is now using laser printers for 17:01 17 minutes, 1 second marking for marking solutions uh is laser printer threat to the consumable business or to the or to the inkjet 17:10 17 minutes, 10 seconds printers Yeah. So, if I can answer that question, uh, you know, the lasers have been around for about two decades now, and I 17:18 17 minutes, 18 seconds don't deny that, you know, at least what I've seen in the '9s, they or even in the late '9s, they started, you know, especially in certain high-speed bottling lines and certain things. 17:29 17 minutes, 29 seconds So, they [clears throat] have some fundamental limitations and I'm going to go through this. So, this is technical. Uh, so the first 17:37 17 minutes, 37 seconds thing is they don't work on all materials. Okay. Uh the second thing is it won't give a contrast. So for a lot of people who want a branded type of 17:44 17 minutes, 44 seconds print, they're not going to get a contrast. And like you said, when you print on a pipe, it won't give a contrast on it. If it's a LLTP or HTTP drip irrigation pipe, what it'll do is 17:53 17 minutes, 53 seconds like an engraved print, [clears throat] which doesn't work for most people's branding. 17:58 17 minutes, 58 seconds The third issue with for our own purpose in terms of the laser business, uh you know, it's a different model because [clears throat] there are less people. 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds So the cost is less because you also need less of a service thing. But there is also an AMC element to it and the 18:14 18 minutes, 14 seconds lasers have a life of about 5 years. So what you do is the frequency of replacement of the lasers more common 18:22 18 minutes, 22 seconds more frequent and and there is like an IV in terms of you know maintaining the fume extractors and changing the filters of the laser and doing some other 18:30 18 minutes, 30 seconds things. So there's not a direct consumable. more of a service type of a contract and a spares contract that or 18:37 18 minutes, 37 seconds the services and spares that you're selling and then the life of the machine being a bit less you keep replacing the machine every you know four five I mean 18:46 18 minutes, 46 seconds of course in a farmer industry and certain other things with the low usage it might be 7 8 years but fundamentally in most companies you replace like every 18:54 18 minutes, 54 seconds four to five years so [clears throat] from a earnings perspective it's not that much different to us but 19:02 19 minutes, 2 seconds [clears throat] 19:03 19 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah, there there is an element in in both things but the most important thing is that the lasers don't work on everything. There's a big safety issue with lasers specifically when you 19:11 19 minutes, 11 seconds mention pipes you know on all chlorinated compounds or halogenated compounds you know iodine broomemide 19:18 19 minutes, 18 seconds type compounds chlorine what will happen is the moment you use a laser on it it will create a chemical reaction on the 19:25 19 minutes, 25 seconds surface so it will for example release chlorine gas you know on the at that point of time and the chlorine gas will 19:33 19 minutes, 33 seconds attack someone's throat and eyes and also convert into hydrochloric acid by reacting with the moisture in the air. So both things are very dangerous. 19:42 19 minutes, 42 seconds Now in [clears throat] India, so if you look at the laser fundamentally, it's a class 1A safety, you know, that's around 19:49 19 minutes, 49 seconds it. It comes under some IEC rules. I I've got all the technical details but I'll have to you know explain later. So the laser needs to be completely 19:56 19 minutes, 56 seconds enclosed. It releases [clears throat] a whole bunch of small micron size fume particles when you print. So we capture them with 20:04 20 minutes, 4 seconds a fume extractor but still some are released. Now what happens is like abroad what we've seen is that the laser is growing but it's not increasing 20:12 20 minutes, 12 seconds because in a lot of lines people find it a struggle to enclose the entire line you know so if I have a form fill seal machine or even a pipe machine where the 20:21 20 minutes, 21 seconds laser is there it needs to be enclosed completely it needs to be that if the safety is open the entire line is interlocked so the laser will switch off 20:29 20 minutes, 29 seconds at the power level itself and the line will stop and so on. So in India see none of these things are being followed even though we are also part of the same rules. 20:39 20 minutes, 39 seconds uh so I don't know what's going to happen but you know in general like you know when we talk to the larger customers uh yeah and I agree that even 20:47 20 minutes, 47 seconds they look at other people so I'm not sure what's going to happen in general um I will say that even the so-called 20:55 20 minutes, 55 seconds big companies out here don't follow the same sort of safety norms that they will in their own home markets of 21:01 21 minutes, 1 second Europe and uh America or something but [clears throat] uh you know I think they're more cognizant of these issues 21:09 21 minutes, 9 seconds So I think even as awareness grows these things will happen. So in the pharmaceutical industry again you know when there have a lot of particles out there it's in a clean room environment 21:17 21 minutes, 17 seconds so they have issues sort of using lasers. So there are you know pluses and minuses in this whole situation. It's a very technical you know question of what 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds you're asking. uh but fundamentally whatever we are seeing abroad you know in Europe in Japan in America and of 21:33 21 minutes, 33 seconds course also in India that the Chinese guys are very aggressive in using laser for everything without any safety measures or any thought but uh elsewhere 21:42 21 minutes, 42 seconds in the world people are much more circumspect they're more you know cognizant of the safety issues and the technical issues and the other thing 21:50 21 minutes, 50 seconds with the laser specifically on some materials it will because of the thermal energy it sort engraves into the 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds material. So when you have certain thin materials or with the barrier property is very critical. It will also cause pin holes in that material. So so like I 22:06 22 minutes, 6 seconds said there multiple issues we also in the packaging industry and people are being forced to use more recycled material even though nobody's doing it 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds right now but that's going to happen. So what happens is the recycled materials behave differently than the version 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds materials. So when you print on the recycled material you might not get the same print quality might be much more uneven. So you know there are various 22:28 22 minutes, 28 seconds pluses and minuses in this whole aspect but you know I I think laser will keep increasing at a gradual rate. I think 22:35 22 minutes, 35 seconds for us in our business model it's not really an issue. Uh but I don't see from your fundamental question like I said 22:44 22 minutes, 44 seconds it's been around for a long time unless [clears throat] there's some method of overcoming especially the safety issues and then the issues in terms of contrast 22:51 22 minutes, 51 seconds on the material you know uh there's no I don't see it ramping up very fast so so to sum it up you're saying that 22:59 22 minutes, 59 seconds you this is not uh for now you don't really see a a big threat to the 23:06 23 minutes, 6 seconds fundamentals of the business uh and also there's some sort of industry risk or substrate risk and you cannot really apply laser to every particular product 23:14 23 minutes, 14 seconds is what I'm trying to is what I've understood. 23:17 23 minutes, 17 seconds Yeah. So so the laser is restricted definitely to certain products where it's there like I said certain people specifically because you mentioned pipe I answered that. I'm saying in certain 23:25 23 minutes, 25 seconds places people can use the laser but it has safety issues. So some people are still using the laser. So it's you can use it on LLDP drip irrigation pipes for 23:33 23 minutes, 33 seconds example but you can't really use it on any of the PVC CPVC UPVC or any of the chlorinated pipes you know so I'm just 23:40 23 minutes, 40 seconds trying to say that there is a you know element to the whole thing on a LLTP tripleation or HTP pipe when you do it you need a lot of energy to get a 23:49 23 minutes, 49 seconds small engrave print now for a lot of customers who want to brand their product you know [clears throat] the contrast they want much more contrast and visibility uh you get my point 23:58 23 minutes, 58 seconds because if it's just for internal traceability that type of print is fine. 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second But if you want that the customer should know that it's a Supreme Pipe for example, you know, and see it and you want a Jakass logo or whatever, you 24:08 24 minutes, 8 seconds know, then you need to uh have a high contrast print on it which you can't get with a laser. So what I'm saying is there are multiple 24:16 24 minutes, 16 seconds issues in the laser adoption and therefore the laser has picked up slowly. In China, it's picked up faster 24:23 24 minutes, 23 seconds because in certain cases, a lot of cases, most cases, they're ignoring a lot of safety related issues around the laser. The safety regulations were already in place, right? 24:33 24 minutes, 33 seconds And you know, obviously, uh, but it's still even in China, the you know, the coding market has not decreased, you 24:40 24 minutes, 40 seconds know, per se. It's just maybe a higher percentage of lasers has happened, but the rest of the market, the even including the CI market is still growing or at least stable. 24:51 24 minutes, 51 seconds Okay. 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds All right. I I think that's that's you've answered my question. Thank you so much. 24:58 24 minutes, 58 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Anawa. Please go ahead. 25:03 25 minutes, 3 seconds Hello. Thank you for taking the question, sir. So, building on the previous participants question trying to 25:11 25 minutes, 11 seconds understand as to where was the delta and the gross margins and the employee cost. 25:16 25 minutes, 16 seconds Can you just throw some color in that also on the other expenses? 25:21 25 minutes, 21 seconds There is a lot of background noise coming from I'm sorry. Can you hear me now? There's background noise. 25:28 25 minutes, 28 seconds Just a moment. Yeah. Is it clear now? 25:35 25 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. Back now. Okay. 25:37 25 minutes, 37 seconds Yeah. My question was regarding the decline in gross margins and the increase in employee costs and other expenses. Can you throw some color on 25:45 25 minutes, 45 seconds that as to Where have we seen the delta over there apart from the graduating and the other provisions that we've made? There seems 25:53 25 minutes, 53 seconds to be a considerable movement in the employee cost per se. So that would be my first question. 26:04 26 minutes, 4 seconds G please. 26:06 26 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah. Hi. I think I'll take this question. uh an so what happened is that as you rightly said the employee costs have risen in the Q3 as compared to the 26:15 26 minutes, 15 seconds Q2 and that is basically mainly a reason of uh adjustment of provisions. So you are aware of the new labor code which 26:24 26 minutes, 24 seconds has been mandatorily applied. So since 21st of November now we are under the new regime of the new labor code. So as 26:32 26 minutes, 32 seconds per the mandate given we have to absorb all the past service costs also. So we had a major impact uh because of the 26:40 26 minutes, 40 seconds graduity provision and also we made some uh kind of staff incentive provision. So that's the result why you know like the 26:48 26 minutes, 48 seconds staff costs the employee costs have risen. Other expenses [clears throat] are on the higher side but definitely we are looking at most more cost control 26:57 26 minutes, 57 seconds measures uh like basically business promotion expenses or travel expenses have grown as compared to the past 27:05 27 minutes, 5 seconds quarter. We would like to you know like consolidate more on the you know like control aspect and definitely we are we'll try our best to you know like get 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds a reduction on this and optimize the cost. So in the Q4 we'll make sure you know the results are better in terms of the overheads as well. 27:22 27 minutes, 22 seconds But sir in your note five you have said that there is no material impact on the new labor code. So there there seems to be some kind of mismatch over here sir. 27:34 27 minutes, 34 seconds But I'm not getting the last uh I'm sorry I'm saying sir in your note number five to notes to the accounts you 27:42 27 minutes, 42 seconds have mentioned that there is no material impact to because of the labor code. 27:46 27 minutes, 46 seconds So just trying to understand as to no a couple of kores it may be increasing in terms of the delta but it's not a material impact on our overall results. 27:57 27 minutes, 57 seconds Do you understand what I'm saying? If if you're saying like the increases what I think is is your I don't know what the exact numbers are there but I think that 28:06 28 minutes, 6 seconds the employee cost increased by something but okay so about a couple of kores was the provisions is my approximate idea 28:14 28 minutes, 14 seconds by five crores itains part of the delta like he said but it doesn't explain the entire delta that's what I said before but it 28:21 28 minutes, 21 seconds [clears throat] it if you take out that amount then you know the delta looks less but it's not material now overall results I have to be honest about 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds Okay. And so my next question would be on the impact on the India EU FDA. Uh where do we see ourselves placed because 28:38 28 minutes, 38 seconds of this? And uh do we see the foreign players being able to enter the market 28:45 28 minutes, 45 seconds per se and being able to take our share in the market? Can you get some colors on that as well? 28:54 28 minutes, 54 seconds I can't hear you clearly. Could you please repeat it this again? I'm sorry. Uh is it better now? A bit better now. Yeah. 29:02 29 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah. I was just asking regarding the India EU FDA. Uh do we see any foreign players entering the market post this 29:09 29 minutes, 9 seconds FTA? Do we see any kind of uh movement coming from Europe 29:15 29 minutes, 15 seconds in this space? Do we see any like anyone taking our market share, taking our business from us? 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds Can you just throw some color on this? 29:26 29 minutes, 26 seconds It's absolutely of no consequence either way. Um may make our exports a bit cheaper. 29:36 29 minutes, 36 seconds I [clears throat] don't know actually what the duties were previously on stuff from India to there. The three main competitors video jet, Domino and Mark 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds all manufactured in China primarily and then Domino and MI have a assembly line right at the end for year. So they 29:53 29 minutes, 53 seconds get the entire kit and they get like a sort of CKD or SKD or something and they just assemble it here. But since none of the three manufacture in the Europe 30:02 30 minutes, 2 seconds anyways to begin with, none of the imports are going to come via Europe. So I don't think that fundamentally 30:11 30 minutes, 11 seconds anything changes and more importantly in our business like I said it's a sticky business because most people have a printer. Everyone is competitive or the service network needs to be there. 30:21 30 minutes, 21 seconds everything else needs to be there and those are I'll say the most important critical factors for people to uh be 30:29 30 minutes, 29 seconds successful in this business. So I don't think we are going to benefit much. I don't think we're going to in any way be 30:37 30 minutes, 37 seconds impacted definitely negatively. We're not going to be impacted negatively. I don't think it makes a difference to our three key competitors. 30:45 30 minutes, 45 seconds Um yeah I I don't see this being I see not not really having any 30:52 30 minutes, 52 seconds impact on our business of course thank you all right thank you one year down the line if it happened before it could have helped a little bit 31:00 31 minutes and that the packaging machines and the packaging materials that we import from Europe would become a bit cheaper but by the time I think this FDA is ratified 31:08 31 minutes, 8 seconds we'll already have all the production of the packaging materials are I don't think being useful in that aspect either Okay sir, that's thank you. 31:18 31 minutes, 18 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Vinit Takur. Please go ahead. 31:23 31 minutes, 23 seconds Hi sir, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity sir. Uh I actually wanted to know couple of numbers. So what would be our segmental performance 31:32 31 minutes, 32 seconds in print volume uh as sales volume? What would be a sales volume of printer and installed base for 9 months? 31:44 31 minutes, 44 seconds So uh Shiva I can answer this question. 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds Uh the printer sales for the 9 months are a little over 2100 printers 31:54 31 minutes, 54 seconds and our installed base is about 22,000 plus printers. 32:01 32 minutes, 1 second So what's our revenue break up by region and uh by segments? 32:05 32 minutes, 5 seconds So um within the coding and marking we have four different streams of revenue. So one is the printers, the other is the 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds consumables, then the spares and the services. So the breakup for the Q3 is 18%, 58%, 7% and 15%. 32:24 32 minutes, 24 seconds Oh, thank you sir. And so what would be our opinion about the Europe operations? 32:29 32 minutes, 29 seconds When can we see a reversion of a beta margins? 32:37 32 minutes, 37 seconds Yeah, sure. You want to take this question? 32:46 32 minutes, 46 seconds you just please repeat that question. I I couldn't it got a little off. 32:49 32 minutes, 49 seconds I wanted some clarity. So since we were doing uh at you know 24 am I audible sir? Yes yes yes. 32:56 32 minutes, 56 seconds Uh we were doing 23 25 and 24 and FI 22 to 24 and since Europe we have fall fallen 33:03 33 minutes, 3 seconds down to around 19%. uh what would be when could we assume we could get back to the original margins or we could stop bleeding money at Europe operations. 33:12 33 minutes, 12 seconds So I think okay I mean I cannot say anything to everyone but like if I look at on a standalone basis which is what is more important for us now even the 33:21 33 minutes, 21 seconds standalone basis carries like I [clears throat] said the the track and trace business is is break even it might even be making money uh you know 33:29 33 minutes, 29 seconds depending on how we portion the overheads uh it's making money or I'd say on a marginal basis it's profitable now the packaging [clears throat] 33:37 33 minutes, 37 seconds business even in India and Asia is lossmaking as of right now and obviously in Italy and stuff like that we have a much bigger uh you know losses that we are 33:45 33 minutes, 45 seconds taking on that account. Now 33:48 33 minutes, 48 seconds [clears throat] 33:50 33 minutes, 50 seconds the three different businesses fundamentally or four different businesses. One is the coding and marketing. I'll put the digital printing in that. That's like one business that 33:58 33 minutes, 58 seconds is still growing. The profits are there and the margins are consistent and the profits have increased. 34:04 34 minutes, 4 seconds [clears throat] Although we are still doing a break up exactly of where the other expenses and the employee benefit expenses have increased 34:13 34 minutes, 13 seconds but we believe that the business has grown further in profit in line with the revenue if not more. Okay. I [clears throat] I don't want to give the 34:21 34 minutes, 21 seconds exact breakup because you're not providing it in the presentation but fundamentally uh that business's gross 34:27 34 minutes, 27 seconds margins and revenue uh there's revenue growth of I don't know like 14 15%. 34:34 34 minutes, 34 seconds or something of that sort in the standalone business. Some part of it has come from the packaging and the track and trace which have grown faster but 34:42 34 minutes, 42 seconds from a much lower base and that business is is is a profitable business and the margins are increasing because our costs 34:50 34 minutes, 50 seconds are not increasing that fast but we're doing exact checkup because the other expenses is something that we are confused about because we not looked at in that depth from the employee cost I 34:58 34 minutes, 58 seconds can say most of the employee costs which have increased have increased in the packaging uh business maybe the track and race business uh and the other 35:06 35 minutes, 6 seconds things and especially the international business. Now, [clears throat] as the packaging business, you know, ramps up 35:13 35 minutes, 13 seconds in volume, uh, like I said, we get past some of these technical niggling issues which we believe we've resolved and we 35:20 35 minutes, 20 seconds able to execute the orders in this quarter and the next quarter. It's a slightly lengthy process because, you know, the machine is now fixed. The customer still has to come to the 35:29 35 minutes, 29 seconds factory do a factory acceptance test and all these other types of things which is a bit of a different longer drawn out process as compared to you know what we 35:36 35 minutes, 36 seconds do in our coding and marketing business u where we just it's like a readym made product and we just ship it. So my view 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds is that you know as [clears throat] uh the packaging business moves up in terms of revenue and I I do believe that in Q3 35:54 35 minutes, 54 seconds or Q4 of this financial year this coming financial year even in Italy it's going to be break even 36:01 36 minutes, 1 second and in India it'll be profitable hopefully by Q1 or Q2 of next year or Q1 of next year. So I think as that happens 36:09 36 minutes, 9 seconds and the losses of the packaging business come down the cons even if we're not making money the standalone and the consolidated will sort of merge 36:18 36 minutes, 18 seconds you know so my my feel my gut feeling is that if you can make as much money in India in the packaging business as what they may lose in Italy in Q1 and Q2 at 36:26 36 minutes, 26 seconds least we'll be sort of on a break even basis on the [clears throat] overall thing and then you'll see a sort of homogenization of the standalone and the 36:34 36 minutes, 34 seconds consolidated uh and then the margins across the board will quite similar and then obviously the longerterm plan is that the packing business will grow and will be 36:43 36 minutes, 43 seconds profitable in and of its own and so will the track and trace business I definitely expect them to contribute significantly to the bottom line uh in 36:50 36 minutes, 50 seconds the coming financial year. So the if you [clears throat] if you if you if I looked at the business and I sort of 36:58 36 minutes, 58 seconds x-rayed and I looked at different segments then you know I think that the core coding and marketing business is still uh as profitable on a gross margin 37:07 37 minutes, 7 seconds basis surely I can I can say that but I think even if although we've not done that deep dive and aortion the expenses perfectly between the businesses but 37:15 37 minutes, 15 seconds even if from whatever I can see from the employee point of view and other direct costs which are measurable for us it has grown in profitability 37:23 37 minutes, 23 seconds It has grown in like in in percentage margin in a EBIT basis. It it has grown. 37:31 37 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you sir. And one last question would be sir. What is it? 37:34 37 minutes, 34 seconds Sorry. Uh may I request you to rejoin the queue please? Okay we'll reject. 37:38 37 minutes, 38 seconds Uh uh we'll take the next question from Subhan. Please go ahead. Hello. Am I audible? 37:46 37 minutes, 46 seconds Yes Subha. Sir my question would be if we are operating in an oligopoly market itself and we have so much of unutilized 37:53 37 minutes, 53 seconds capacity uh why has our market share remained or capped at around 40 uh 20 odd%. Is it 38:01 38 minutes, 1 second the barrier to taking share from VideoJet or Domino a matter of technology or is the uh lock in of 38:10 38 minutes, 10 seconds consumables at the competitor side stronger than what we could have anticipated in the past? 38:23 38 minutes, 23 seconds So Shuban can you hear me clearly? Yes sir. 38:26 38 minutes, 26 seconds Yeah. So I mean I think this answer question has been answered in many concourse. Fundamentally it's a very sticky business and we have actually 38:34 38 minutes, 34 seconds grown our market share slowly over the last few years. Um but because it's a sticky business you 38:42 38 minutes, 42 seconds know u it's difficult for the competitors to take our customers and for us to take our competitors customers. So it happens 38:51 38 minutes, 51 seconds but it's a bit of a slower business but technology wise I think we've got the best product stack right now. Definitely. 38:57 38 minutes, 57 seconds So what could trigger a market share increase let's say hypothetically? 39:03 39 minutes, 3 seconds So so definitely one of the gains we've had is more like you know in our nonCIG products and where especially in the thermal engine and the PAO where we've 39:11 39 minutes, 11 seconds gained market share. So as technologies change like you know some earlier person was talking about laser. So you know 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds sometimes people are more open to using someone else's CI and then you know a second supplier's laser going forward or 39:27 39 minutes, 27 seconds a second person's you know thermal transfer or thermal injet. So I think that's one area where we feel maybe 39:33 39 minutes, 33 seconds that's some opportunity to gain market share and the second is to you know just continuously perform a bit better uh and just keep taking these small market 39:42 39 minutes, 42 seconds share gains because they're very profitable. So even if the market is growing at 10% and we're growing at 14% you know that's still quite profitable 39:49 39 minutes, 49 seconds for us you know it's uh because that extra four 5% is yeah it's a lot of money 39:57 39 minutes, 57 seconds right so and the second question would be uh we are running some pilot projects with pharma course and uh what is the 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds typical gestation period from let's say pilot to getting a full scale rollout and what could be our potential let's 40:13 40 minutes, 13 seconds say uh value addition in top line and bottom line if you could uh from that if you could just give some 40:20 40 minutes, 20 seconds I cannot answer the top line and bottom line part because you know it's all hypothetical but right now the pilots are sort of over uh but there's a lot of 40:29 40 minutes, 29 seconds negotiation going on right now uh some contractual elements to the negotiation it's not just a commercial 40:37 40 minutes, 37 seconds negotiation there's also legal aspects to it so we are in the process of trying to finalize those deals 40:45 40 minutes, 45 seconds But okay, you know it's one [clears throat] of those things that uh you know we have to go carefully because it's this is not a regular type of a a sale of product. 40:56 40 minutes, 56 seconds This is a uh you know a patented technology we are giving and there are certain restrictions in you know what 41:04 41 minutes, 4 seconds the customer expects us to do and what we can provide and so on. So uh [clears throat] so I I think I'd given 41:11 41 minutes, 11 seconds that you know we have two of the top five or 10 customers in India in previous things. So we have I think we have closed it now to in a finalization 41:19 41 minutes, 19 seconds stage in a commercial negotiation stage but uh we we're trying to close that hopefully in this quarter. 41:26 41 minutes, 26 seconds Okay. So lastly uh what is the it'll be soon it'll be soon but like I said there's a little bit of back and forth because both people have given it 41:34 41 minutes, 34 seconds you know us and customers have also given to their legal teams just to make sure so when lawyers get involved you know everything slows down and it cost a 41:43 41 minutes, 43 seconds lot more money. Okay. Okay. Thank you sir. I'll join the queue. 41:49 41 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Nitan Grover. Please go ahead. 41:56 41 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. My question is for Mr. Jadiv Burw. I hope I'm audible. Yeah, you are. You are. 42:02 42 minutes, 2 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. So, uh first of all, congratulations for an impressive growth in the top line. Okay. 42:09 42 minutes, 9 seconds They published the numbers. I'm sure you can throw some color on the significant increase that we are seeing in the employee cost. Okay. I think you did 42:18 42 minutes, 18 seconds mention that some part of it relates to the change in the labor codes and another is on account of u uh the 42:25 42 minutes, 25 seconds increase in the provision on the side of incentive. Right? Just wanted to understand what is the uh policy that you are following in terms of making a 42:33 42 minutes, 33 seconds provision for incentive. Are you making an upfront provision for incentive before the sales happen and because of that there's a mismatch because the 42:41 42 minutes, 41 seconds increase is quite significant when I look at the numbers it is a 28% increase in employee cost over last year and 22% 42:49 42 minutes, 49 seconds over the previous quarter and it is definitely impacting the overall profitability that we are seeing for control print for the third quarter okay 42:58 42 minutes, 58 seconds so yeah thank you yeah uh so uh I would like to address your question this way. See, incentives 43:06 43 minutes, 6 seconds are always a result as of you know like a planned structure process. So we identify the uh employees who need need 43:15 43 minutes, 15 seconds to be incentivized. We also have sales incentives policies. We've got incentive policies for the service managers plus 43:24 43 minutes, 24 seconds we've got incentive schemes for the back office team. So as and when I mean uh for the people where the results can be 43:31 43 minutes, 31 seconds quantified like [snorts] sales and services I mean everything is you know calculated for the others where it is more of a non-quantified basis what we 43:40 43 minutes, 40 seconds do is that based on our experience and based on the performance we we prepare a list and we get it approved and then the provision is made according to that. 43:53 43 minutes, 53 seconds Thank you for that. See your overall employee cost is like 23% of sales. I'm looking at the consolidated numbers. Do we expect a similar percentage to continue as we move forward? 44:02 44 minutes, 2 seconds See, we are we are definitely looking at you know optimization of not just the employee costs but we also looking at optimization of even the cost of goods 44:10 44 minutes, 10 seconds sold and the other worlds. So definitely we'll see some kind of a good improvement in the periods to come. 44:18 44 minutes, 18 seconds Okay. Fine. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Ji. Appreciate it. Thank you. 44:21 44 minutes, 21 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Pratik Ja. Please go ahead. 44:25 44 minutes, 25 seconds Yeah. Hi. So, so my question is like could you say some guidance on the printing core business? What kind of industry growth do you expect over like 44:33 44 minutes, 33 seconds let's say 3 to 5 years and how do you see your company growing in that period? 44:38 44 minutes, 38 seconds Also, if you could uh like uh give us some color on the track and race business, how you see that evolving? 44:52 44 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah. So, Pratik uh to answer your questions now specifically looking at the coding and 45:00 45 minutes marketing business uh is going to grow at 10 11% 12% and depending a little bit on the Indian economy like we assuming that India is going to grow like 6 7% 45:09 45 minutes, 9 seconds and then you know coding and marketing will be like one and a half times that and so on and [clears throat] we've been doing a bit faster than that. We feel that our product portfolio is better 45:17 45 minutes, 17 seconds than the competitors. So we'll continue growing at that right now considering our lineup and 45:25 45 minutes, 25 seconds everyone else's lineup and our edges compared to everyone else's for the next year or two. or thing you know like because I can't predict 5 years down the 45:32 45 minutes, 32 seconds line but I'm sure [clears throat] we'll grow at the market but maybe in the next year or two if we still maintain our 45:40 45 minutes, 40 seconds product edges in you know the thermal engine and the paso and certain other things we may able to grow at faster than the market like about 15% uh you 45:49 45 minutes, 49 seconds know growth rate uh according to me give or take you know a couple of percent here or there and obviously [clears throat] if we if 45:56 45 minutes, 56 seconds we maintain that edge which we feel we've got a strong you know organization a strong everything maybe we want to maintain that 15-ish% growth rate for a longer 46:04 46 minutes, 4 seconds period like I said it's it's going to there is a technical element to it although I know I said that it's very sticky but you know it's also uh there's 46:12 46 minutes, 12 seconds a technical aspect to it also you know the product does matter the [clears throat] second part of the thing 46:19 46 minutes, 19 seconds uh was the question regarding the uh track and trace business and how it's 46:26 46 minutes, 26 seconds evolving so I said like I said it's already a few hundred Kores like Jackson, ACG, those types of people are there. We're coming with a slightly different strategy. Are we doing some 46:34 46 minutes, 34 seconds more plain vanilla stuff right now? Uh now we've sort of [clears throat] finalized certain elements where we 46:42 46 minutes, 42 seconds should be able to go for more high value added business and you know if for us it's more of a fusion of the track and 46:50 46 minutes, 50 seconds trace into you know something which is going to give much more business intelligence to the customer uh rather than just meeting a compliance requirement because then we have to meet 46:58 46 minutes, 58 seconds the compliance but how can we sort of connect that to resolve some of the customer issues. So uh you know first 47:06 47 minutes, 6 seconds let me let me try to conclude those two contracts you know let us try to conclude them and roll them out their 47:14 47 minutes, 14 seconds pilots the big pilots like the pilot has to be commercialized now and uh and if that happens we'll be busy 47:22 47 minutes, 22 seconds with that anyways for quite a lot of time and you know and then we'll have to see what the market reaction is and whether what we believe we're providing 47:30 47 minutes, 30 seconds the customer as a benefit what the customer believes he's getting if he's getting it, you know, the market is big. 47:36 47 minutes, 36 seconds And if he's not actually uh, you know, the theoretical benefit versus the the practical benefit is not there, then, you know, uh, yeah, we'll still sell 47:44 47 minutes, 44 seconds stuff, but then it might not grow at that same rate. So, it's very difficult to save. We're making a technology platform play in both the packaging 47:52 47 minutes, 52 seconds business and the track and trace business and digital printing. So, they're very different from the coding and marketing business, you know, where it's a very established platform and everyone knows what they're getting. 48:03 48 minutes, 3 seconds Uh thank you Shiva. Just a small uh follow. 48:06 48 minutes, 6 seconds No, it's difficult to predict is my point because these are like you know they they can they can you know they can be hockey stick type of growth or they 48:13 48 minutes, 13 seconds can just not take off you know it's it's very difficult for us to predict. 48:17 48 minutes, 17 seconds Just a small follow-up question on track and trace. So as of now the demand that you are seeing is it purely from the compliance perspective or you are also seeing companies doing it by themselves. 48:25 48 minutes, 25 seconds The reason I'm asking is that I've seen couple of organic players they are putting QR codes on their product so that you can see that from where it's 48:33 48 minutes, 33 seconds been the exact factory it is coming from and etc. 48:36 48 minutes, 36 seconds Yeah. So, so those are all like ch children's things. No, so the reason is the compliance. So there's a thing called L1, L2, L3, F, L4, 5, L5, which 48:45 48 minutes, 45 seconds [clears throat] means you know when L4 and L5 the information that you print is connected to that of the regulators uh 48:53 48 minutes, 53 seconds you know and people down the line in the supply chain and so on and so forth. So what you know if people are printing a little QR code on you know a thing and 49:01 49 minutes, 1 second it's leading to a website link that's that's just basically like a little bit of marketing type stuff that they want people to go onto the website and claim 49:08 49 minutes, 8 seconds 10% and get his information or something. But no what the pharmaceutical companies are regulated 49:16 49 minutes, 16 seconds or or the top 300 brands or something of the sort. It's regulated and 49:21 49 minutes, 21 seconds [clears throat] 49:21 49 minutes, 21 seconds and for these customers it's a it's a regulatory and a compliance matter. So they don't have any uh so they have to they have to 49:31 49 minutes, 31 seconds you know comply with the norms and even in the export segments in some countries there is a requirement of this. So 49:39 49 minutes, 39 seconds fundamentally like you know it's it's a compliance-based business. uh and then we are trying which is our strategy that 49:46 49 minutes, 46 seconds if you're doing the compliance and we're getting so much data and we're printing so much data why can't we do more things on top of that and really resolve some 49:54 49 minutes, 54 seconds of your burning issues. So that's what our our fundamental take is. But it's a compliance-based business in pharmaceutical. Other people are doing 50:02 50 minutes, 2 seconds it. Those are like not those are not mission critical applications. I'll put it that way. 50:11 50 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Susan Jani. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Uh thanks for the opportunity. 50:20 50 minutes, 20 seconds Uh sir, earlier you mentioned that we've taken a price hike on our printers. So uh are we the only ones who have taken a price hike or our competition has also 50:29 50 minutes, 29 seconds uh taken a price hike and whether these price hikes are to match the commodity inflation or should this price hikes 50:37 50 minutes, 37 seconds result in any sort of gross margin expansion. 50:40 50 minutes, 40 seconds I think JP you can take that one but it is more not on the printer so much as the materials or the the consumables and the services and it was 50:50 50 minutes, 50 seconds just was lagging from our side. We had uh there has been some cost increases my belief but I think J you know answers 50:58 50 minutes, 58 seconds better Jenny I think maybe he's gone off the call. 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds Sure I'll ask my next question. Uh uh I had recently met a company who had a packaging solution similar to Vshapes 51:20 51 minutes, 20 seconds but it was not Vshapes it was some Chinese uh supplier. So wanted to know if you are aware of any such uh Chinese 51:27 51 minutes, 27 seconds competition there in the market and how does our patent protect us against such competition. 51:34 51 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. So [clears throat] the patent protection is quite fundamental. 51:38 51 minutes, 38 seconds Uh there are two companies that are there in this business. One is easy snap which was founded by the person who's founded the shapes and that uses an 51:47 51 minutes, 47 seconds older patent. Now that patent itself is being violated by the Chinese companies uh and they do have a patent in China but someone needs to go to China and sue 51:55 51 minutes, 55 seconds those people and so on and you know it's not easy to do that with a small Chinese company because the guy will shut it and his brother or sister will open a new 52:04 52 minutes, 4 seconds company or something. So we'll have to go after the customers or something of that sort. But we don't have any to be honest real presence in China. So we don't know how to get all the stuff 52:12 52 minutes, 12 seconds done. Uh but we do have patents in other countries and you know we are not afraid to take legal options. So if a large customer out here employs one of those 52:21 52 minutes, 21 seconds machines, we're not afraid to go to court. Okay. 52:24 52 minutes, 24 seconds Now the easy snap will expire in terms of in terms of the printers versus uh uh and as well as the per unit 52:32 52 minutes, 32 seconds price. How would that finish this thing on the packaging machine? Now the if the easy snap patent will expire at the end of the year. So 52:40 52 minutes, 40 seconds the Chinese people will be able to copy that type of machine. It has fundamentally some limitations uh which uh is the reason we purchased 52:48 52 minutes, 48 seconds Vshapes because we figured out that this technology is going to have a benefit and we have a patent 2036 in all major jurisdictions. We've also filed a whole 52:57 52 minutes, 57 seconds bunch of patent extensions and you know different types of patents to cover like you know packing powders in our format 53:05 53 minutes, 5 seconds or using the single polymer homo you know like a homopolymer recyclable material for example or switching to a 53:13 53 minutes, 13 seconds paper based material which is more than 70%. So we've also been finding a bunch of other or working on a bunch of other projects. So we expect that with an 53:21 53 minutes, 21 seconds ecosystem of IP you know things around this you know it will make it difficult for people to get into 53:29 53 minutes, 29 seconds the business because they cannot service all the needs of the customers and so on. So [clears throat] right now 53:35 53 minutes, 35 seconds now the Chinese guys who are selling are fundamentally as of right now out of patent of the easy snap people are not copying the 53:44 53 minutes, 44 seconds Vshapes machine as of yet. It's more complex much more complex to make. they will copy it whenever they do we will 53:52 53 minutes, 52 seconds suit them you know that's as simple as it is okay and currently uh the the easy snap 53:59 53 minutes, 59 seconds technology which is there how is it competitive in terms of pricing wise say per unit sachet and the 54:06 54 minutes, 6 seconds printer uh the packaging machine itself versus our solution they're very similarly priced the main 54:14 54 minutes, 14 seconds difference is that easy snap is running on older technology so the speeds are much And also because the way they cut the 54:22 54 minutes, 22 seconds material without a shape, it's much more difficult to uh do that consistently. So the material tolerances have to be much lower. And if the material tolerances 54:31 54 minutes, 31 seconds aren't perfect and the setting of the machine is not perfect, then the chance of you know you making too deep a cut and the material leaking or you making 54:38 54 minutes, 38 seconds too shallow a cut and the uh you know product not snapping increases quite disproportionately. 54:44 54 minutes, 44 seconds So yeah, u easy snap is not the main issue out here. The main issue right now is for us to just grow the market. It's not a it's not a competitive situation. 54:54 54 minutes, 54 seconds Uh it's it's more of you know I think all customers know that our product is not superior. 55:01 55 minutes, 1 second Okay. Un. Thanks. I'll get back in queue. 55:04 55 minutes, 4 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Samar Singh. Please go ahead. 55:12 55 minutes, 12 seconds Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Um uh just a question on our our cash flows uh of uh assuming our packaging business 55:20 55 minutes, 20 seconds breaks even and we're doing about 50 crores of cash flow a year. uh how much of that will go into capex to maintain the 15% growth in the coding and 55:28 55 minutes, 28 seconds marketing business and how are we thinking of the of the balance and uh plans to utilize the same 55:36 55 minutes, 36 seconds so I think you know approximately what we depreciate we spend about that much is maintenance and other types of capital we don't even spend that much 55:44 55 minutes, 44 seconds but part of the depreciation is also certain things that we've invested certain tooling certain other things that we do so I don't think that fundamentally the cap capex is required. 55:54 55 minutes, 54 seconds There is some capex that we are doing in terms of the development of the homopolymer for the packaging material and you know it's manufacturing and 56:02 56 minutes, 2 seconds certain other things but uh you know we don't expect either we don't expect for for a coding and 56:10 56 minutes, 10 seconds marketing digital printing track and trace business there's no capex needed you know the capital investment out here is the R&D frankly speaking you know and 56:17 56 minutes, 17 seconds whatever projects we do on those fronts so the cash flow is probably higher than 50 crores but I'm not sure what it is. 56:25 56 minutes, 25 seconds Uh JD will give a better number. Uh but yeah I think uh we continue to maintain that I think. Yeah. 56:35 56 minutes, 35 seconds Uh so should the R&D is expensed or is it capitalized? Uh that's the first one and the 50 cr was from the presentation that you have posted uh um for this this 56:45 56 minutes, 45 seconds quarterly results. So I got the number from that. 56:47 56 minutes, 47 seconds It might be on a consolidated basis. I think a standalone profits are high and what's happening is some of that money is going into funding the the losses and 56:55 56 minutes, 55 seconds the other things of our subsidy but you know Jerry Bill Jerry you're here. Yeah I am there I'm there. 57:01 57 minutes, 1 second Yes. So if you can just answer this question about the cash so what happens is that R&D costs are expensed out in the books of accounts. 57:14 57 minutes, 14 seconds Okay. Yeah. 57:16 57 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. It will come in other expenses in the in the BSC filing. It will come under other expenses. Is this correct? 57:23 57 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. And regarding your question on whether the capital expenditure is required for the core coding and marking 57:31 57 minutes, 31 seconds I mean there's nothing major as planned for the core coding and marking which Shiva has also mentioned because we are at the moment running at about 65 to 70% 57:39 57 minutes, 39 seconds of the our capacity. So we don't foresee anything like uh you know a major capex in the corona market. So, so just to 57:48 57 minutes, 48 seconds understand so out of the 50 or 60 crores of uh cash flow we are paying about a dividend of 15 crores a year. What is 57:55 57 minutes, 55 seconds the plan for the balance? Are we looking at more acquisitions or uh see it's it's it's very early to say whether we are looking for acquisitions 58:04 58 minutes, 4 seconds but I mean if we come across we might consider I mean um okay thanks. And the second question 58:12 58 minutes, 12 seconds was just on uh uh you know our expansion into the Middle East. Who are the competitors uh there right now? 58:20 58 minutes, 20 seconds So if I may answer that question uh fundamentally you know this this expansion in the Middle East is not really uh it's for a very it's a small 58:29 58 minutes, 29 seconds type of a setup that we're doing. It's not [clears throat] a major setup. So it's just meant to help service the customers that we already have uh you 58:37 58 minutes, 37 seconds know in certain segments where we're very strong. Uh so for example you know it could be in uh stuff like 58:45 58 minutes, 45 seconds uh steel or something. So it's it's we only have like about four or five people working for that entire market and it's 58:52 58 minutes, 52 seconds [clears throat] meant more uh to be in certain niche industries and applications where we have some you know like definitive technological advantages 59:01 59 minutes, 1 second compared to our competitors and to sort of replicate the same across the Middle East and Africa. So it's it's not it's not like a heavy duty. We're not going 59:09 59 minutes, 9 seconds to have like even 20 people there. We like we have like four five people I think beside for that area. 59:18 59 minutes, 18 seconds Gotcha. Thank you so much. 59:20 59 minutes, 20 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Nikon January. Please go ahead. Uh hi. Am I audible? 59:28 59 minutes, 28 seconds Yes. Yeah. 59:30 59 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you for the opportunity. So uh I just wanted to understand how are we uh standing today on the packaging 59:38 59 minutes, 38 seconds business. So I think we have established a machine in India and we are trying to seed the market. So what sort of response are we getting from our 59:46 59 minutes, 46 seconds customers and uh what uh what is the market telling us right now? 59:52 59 minutes, 52 seconds Could you just repeat that again? I'm sorry. 59:55 59 minutes, 55 seconds So for the packaging business the Vshapes business right we have established it in India as well. uh to seed the market, right? Uh we have put 1:00:04 1 hour, 4 seconds up a machine and we are doing uh co-ackaging uh for our customers. Is that right? That's correct. 1:00:12 1 hour, 12 seconds Yeah. So, so what are we hearing right now from the market? What are our customers telling us and how is the 1:00:18 1 hour, 18 seconds traction there and uh are we seeing any demand and any growth there? 1:00:25 1 hour, 25 seconds Yeah. So, I think uh what happened was there has there is demand We have four machines installed in India 1:00:34 1 hour, 34 seconds also. Uh if yeah I if I uh but all of them are not working completely because 1:00:41 1 hour, 41 seconds of some niggling issues. [clears throat] Um so what's happened is we we've as we got more into the business we found out more issues because you know when what's 1:00:50 1 hour, 50 seconds happening is people want to take like a 100,000 packs to test the market and see how the format is and to test everything. Now what happens in that 1:00:58 1 hour, 58 seconds given situation is that they have a bunch of technical issues uh because we we we struggle to print that much in such small quantities and certain other 1:01:06 1 hour, 1 minute, 6 seconds things. So as a result of this whole thing you know it's been a bit strange uh but the market is good. It's actually 1:01:13 1 hour, 1 minute, 13 seconds quite positive and you know I have no uh problems with uh the way the market is shaping up and it's definitely picked up 1:01:21 1 hour, 1 minute, 21 seconds in the last couple of quarters. Now we're really working on trying to execute the orders that we have especially for the core packaging and 1:01:28 1 hour, 1 minute, 28 seconds get the guys who bought the machine streamlined so that [clears throat] because even they have the same thing that a lot of you know like those guys 1:01:36 1 hour, 1 minute, 36 seconds are exporting but then the customers they have are not taking one product and continuously running it. they have a range of different serums and face 1:01:45 1 hour, 1 minute, 45 seconds creams and I know whatever stuff that they use and it's a bit [clears throat] painful because we need to uh fundamentally like provide for all of 1:01:54 1 hour, 1 minute, 54 seconds those uh different situations. So to print it to test each material test the compatibility do the stuff you know whether you make a billion or you make 1:02:02 1 hour, 2 minutes, 2 seconds like 10 pieces still same amount of work for us. So you to get the artwork to qualify that. So we we've been working a 1:02:10 1 hour, 2 minutes, 10 seconds lot on streamlining the process. We especially had a lot of problems in printing smaller batches and our turnaround times because it takes 3 months for us to get something reverse 1:02:18 1 hour, 2 minutes, 18 seconds printed and laminated and sent back and you know most customers want everything in 30 seconds you know. So 1:02:26 1 hour, 2 minutes, 26 seconds right so it's so we've been working a lot more on streamlining our own supply chain because uh the getting the machine 1:02:34 1 hour, 2 minutes, 34 seconds installing the stuff getting the licenses all those things was one part but uh you know we were not uh so equipped maybe to get those quick 1:02:42 1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds turnarounds for a lot of customers right you mentioned but the demand is definitely increasing both here and in Italy so I think you 1:02:49 1 hour, 2 minutes, 49 seconds know now thing now the things are much more streamlined even our own team is a lot more confidence that we can execute the core package packaging orders and as 1:02:57 1 hour, 2 minutes, 57 seconds a result they are much more comfortable in taking a lot more orders. Uh so so yeah that's what the thing is like you 1:03:04 1 hour, 3 minutes, 4 seconds you mentioned four machines we have established right can you say that again please? 1:03:13 1 hour, 3 minutes, 13 seconds Can you say that again? 1:03:14 1 hour, 3 minutes, 14 seconds Uh in India we have sold four machines right? Is that what you said? Yes. 1:03:20 1 hour, 3 minutes, 20 seconds Okay. And uh just in case of uh our uh acquisitions, how are each one of them doing? If you could share some numbers 1:03:29 1 hour, 3 minutes, 29 seconds uh like codiology and mark print, what are their 9 month numbers? Uh if you can help out with this please. 1:03:35 1 hour, 3 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. Uh so the 9 month numbers forology is you know like uh it's 1:03:43 1 hour, 3 minutes, 43 seconds they're they're picking up the business in fact uh but there's still you know like something to catch up. So for coriology I mean the entire consolidated 1:03:52 1 hour, 3 minutes, 52 seconds codology group uh we are having a loss of about 147,000 as of now sorry pounds as of now and uh 1:04:01 1 hour, 4 minutes, 1 second for mark print I mean it's a good position though not a great position markprint generates profit so we are not 1:04:09 1 hour, 4 minutes, 9 seconds overly worried about that however the scale of business can definitely be improved uh for mark print right so majority of the losses is 1:04:18 1 hour, 4 minutes, 18 seconds coming from the vshap Right. The Italy business the major losses are coming from Italy. You're right. Okay. Okay. Correct. 1:04:26 1 hour, 4 minutes, 26 seconds That that's it from my side. Yeah. Thank you. 1:04:28 1 hour, 4 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you. Thank you, Nepons. Sir, uh due to uh time limitations, that was the last question. Would you like to give any closing comments? 1:04:36 1 hour, 4 minutes, 36 seconds I I think we can take the rest of the questions if it's no problem. 1:04:40 1 hour, 4 minutes, 40 seconds Okay. We'll take the next question from Mo Shanka. 1:04:45 1 hour, 4 minutes, 45 seconds Hello sir. I just wanted to ask about your internet. I just want to say because I mean obviously someone is waiting one hour to ask a question. It would not be fair to not let them ask 1:04:52 1 hour, 4 minutes, 52 seconds questions. So sorry about that. Please continue. Sorry. 1:04:56 1 hour, 4 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. Just wanted to ask about our international subsidiaries. You uh like uh when is the turnaround expected for all our subsidiaries and uh could you 1:05:05 1 hour, 5 minutes, 5 seconds provide some more color as to uh the current operations and uh uh any other timeline for uh the turnaround there? 1:05:13 1 hour, 5 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah. So mo like I said kodiology is profitable in their current business not massively so not minorly so 1:05:22 1 hour, 5 minutes, 22 seconds [clears throat] they're just like a bit profitable because the UK market has been a bit down the losses they're making are marginal but it's mainly 1:05:30 1 hour, 5 minutes, 30 seconds because they are also we have asked them to invest in the Vshapes business and we we are establishing a co-ackaging and a 1:05:38 1 hour, 5 minutes, 38 seconds full marketing setup in the UK also and that's why they're taking some expenses for licenses, for other things and and whatever to start up the market 1:05:47 1 hour, 5 minutes, 47 seconds [clears throat] business is already profitable and we expect to it not only to remain profitable but to grow in profitability and we're working on that 1:05:55 1 hour, 5 minutes, 55 seconds uh you know so we've got some great applications there some good stuff that we're working with them now the Italy business is fundamentally what we all 1:06:02 1 hour, 6 minutes, 2 seconds talking about because that's the major loss making entity 1:06:09 1 hour, 6 minutes, 9 seconds you know so so I mean codeology market is not really that relevant in terms of the overall factor or the Italian 1:06:16 1 hour, 6 minutes, 16 seconds business is the main one and I'm expecting in Q3 and Q4 of financial year 2627 1:06:23 1 hour, 6 minutes, 23 seconds uh they will be break even and I'm expecting [clears throat] that Indian business in packaging will be break even or profit break even at 1:06:31 1 hour, 6 minutes, 31 seconds least in Q1 and Q2 and profitable by Q3 and Q4 and so hopefully I'm hoping that next year the packaging business as a 1:06:38 1 hour, 6 minutes, 38 seconds whole will be break even you know if I combine it across India and Italy and even the UK and so on. 1:06:49 1 hour, 6 minutes, 49 seconds Does that answer your question? Yeah. Yeah. That's it from my side. Thank you for answering the question. 1:06:55 1 hour, 6 minutes, 55 seconds Thank you Mo. We'll take the next question from Madur Rati. Please go ahead. 1:07:03 1 hour, 7 minutes, 3 seconds So thank you for the opportunity sir. I wanted to understand regarding the solution that we are offering in track and trace and how is it different from 1:07:10 1 hour, 7 minutes, 10 seconds ACG and the other players because I understand so the no none of these players manufacture printers as we do. 1:07:18 1 hour, 7 minutes, 18 seconds So if you could just help us understand how is our strategy different and can we do a partnership with the likes of ECG 1:07:25 1 hour, 7 minutes, 25 seconds who do packaging and all uh by supplying our solutions to them. 1:07:31 1 hour, 7 minutes, 31 seconds So that's a very good question. uh our solution is quite different to what they're doing. Like I said, uh everyone 1:07:39 1 hour, 7 minutes, 39 seconds is doing the compliance. The big players in that are ACG, Jen and Pharmace, and Optel is more of an international player 1:07:48 1 hour, 7 minutes, 48 seconds and we're also one of those guys who has the entire solution from L1 to L5. We get the entire compliance done. The difference between us and the other 1:07:55 1 hour, 7 minutes, 55 seconds players is that we are focused more on meeting the compliance needs like them but also using our printing 1:08:02 1 hour, 8 minutes, 2 seconds capabilities, our software capabilities and other stuff to offer a more comprehensive solution to those pharmaceutical customers so they can tackle other business issues of theirs. 1:08:12 1 hour, 8 minutes, 12 seconds Now I can't tell you exactly what it is. 1:08:14 1 hour, 8 minutes, 14 seconds uh like I said if we finish this [clears throat] negotiation and we roll out the pilot and I get a permission from the customers I will make a presentation on this like we'll make a 1:08:22 1 hour, 8 minutes, 22 seconds white paper and a presentation which we'll provide to everyone next time maybe whatever it is so let me 1:08:30 1 hour, 8 minutes, 30 seconds let me just finish this thing you know [clears throat] uh hopefully we I able to conclude everything and uh 1:08:37 1 hour, 8 minutes, 37 seconds move ahead yeah got it and so the second question was uh recently there was a publication that 1:08:45 1 hour, 8 minutes, 45 seconds your seed companies need to have a barcode and they need to have traceability on their packaging. So can 1:08:51 1 hour, 8 minutes, 51 seconds that be a additional market for the uh our track and entry solution along with our printing uh the printing uh for the 1:08:59 1 hour, 8 minutes, 59 seconds printers and the consumables that we provide. 1:09:07 1 hour, 9 minutes, 7 seconds Definitely agrochemicals including like pesticides uh and you know and and [clears throat] 1:09:15 1 hour, 9 minutes, 15 seconds seeds and also I believe to some extent fertilizers in the future also going to come under this regulation but what I 1:09:23 1 hour, 9 minutes, 23 seconds know is like I don't know if it's been it it's been notified but not like you know it's been delayed or something has happened. If you're saying it's it's 1:09:31 1 hour, 9 minutes, 31 seconds official now so people have started doing it especially in the agrochemical industry for the pesticides but I don't know if everyone is already 1:09:39 1 hour, 9 minutes, 39 seconds executing obviously if that happens then the addressable market increases but normally in our past experience till the government doesn't mandate it 1:09:47 1 hour, 9 minutes, 47 seconds and say you have to do it you know it's a different business till and so yeah I 1:09:54 1 hour, 9 minutes, 54 seconds don't know if the from what my knowledge is that the government is not mandated as Uh it's something that is supposed to 1:10:02 1 hour, 10 minutes, 2 seconds happen but degrade once or twice and you till they don't say like you know we're going to pull your product from the shelf. 1:10:09 1 hour, 10 minutes, 9 seconds [clears throat] 1:10:09 1 hour, 10 minutes, 9 seconds Got it. 1:10:10 1 hour, 10 minutes, 10 seconds Past experience shows that you know people don't really but yeah it'll increase the uh addressable market for sure. 1:10:17 1 hour, 10 minutes, 17 seconds Got it. So just a final question from sir how do we plan to scale up these uh labor applicators and the barcode 1:10:24 1 hour, 10 minutes, 24 seconds scanners that the thatology produces in India? uh because uh I suppose that there will be a lot of uh customer 1:10:32 1 hour, 10 minutes, 32 seconds synergy uh products synergy versus the printing uh solutions that we are providing. 1:10:41 1 hour, 10 minutes, 41 seconds So in fact I'm in the Naragar factory right now and the coriology team is here and they've come specifically to give the training on the entire print and 1:10:48 1 hour, 10 minutes, 48 seconds apply manufacturing and setup. So uh it was a bit delayed but now we expect to really go ahead and 1:10:56 1 hour, 10 minutes, 56 seconds and move on it. So they were you know because you do it you have some issues and now you know now we're ready for the second round of real training and 1:11:04 1 hour, 11 minutes, 4 seconds manufacturing out here. So hopefully after this we'll be in a much better position to actually execute and and you know start selling the solution to 1:11:12 1 hour, 11 minutes, 12 seconds customers rather than being a hypothetical uh tool in our market. 1:11:17 1 hour, 11 minutes, 17 seconds Got it sir that was from Thank you so much and all the Thank you. We'll take the next question from Rahul K. Please go ahead. 1:11:31 1 hour, 11 minutes, 31 seconds Hello. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. 1:11:33 1 hour, 11 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Just a few questions from my side. So for the first one is uh like I would like to understand on the 1:11:41 1 hour, 11 minutes, 41 seconds standalone basis right this time our AITA is lower compared to last time. Is 1:11:48 1 hour, 11 minutes, 48 seconds it due to the uh uh product mix or something else? because uh yeah our revenue is also like higher from last 1:11:57 1 hour, 11 minutes, 57 seconds quarter. Yeah, that is my first question. 1:12:00 1 hour, 12 minutes So Rahul has sort of been addressed earlier in this uh conference call but 1:12:08 1 hour, 12 minutes, 8 seconds you want to repeat the thing. Yeah. Uh see I'll tell you what Rahul I mean as we've been saying uh there has been an 1:12:16 1 hour, 12 minutes, 16 seconds increase in the costs related to employee benefit expenses as well as other expenses and we've explained the 1:12:23 1 hour, 12 minutes, 23 seconds reasons why they are and management is definitely committed to you know take a closer look and monitor them and we hope 1:12:30 1 hour, 12 minutes, 30 seconds for a better Q4 in terms of the margins achieved through optimization of the costs. 1:12:38 1 hour, 12 minutes, 38 seconds Okay, sorry I joined a bit late. Sorry, sorry if I have repeated the question. 1:12:41 1 hour, 12 minutes, 41 seconds The second question is on the Vshapes, right? So I think so last con call also I attended like uh we were expecting 1:12:49 1 hour, 12 minutes, 49 seconds somewhere around Q4 to break even on Vshapes if I'm not wrong that was so like now it is delayed. Sorry if you 1:12:59 1 hour, 12 minutes, 59 seconds have already addressed it but if I can recolct yeah that was what was said in the last call. Yeah. So we said uh 1:13:07 1 hour, 13 minutes, 7 seconds earlier that what happened was you know we had some slight technical issues in terms of you know being able to send out 1:13:14 1 hour, 13 minutes, 14 seconds the machines because we wanted to like I said some some minor improvements need to make we made on the machine uh and 1:13:23 1 hour, 13 minutes, 23 seconds therefore we couldn't really ship that many machines in Q2 and Q3. We've shipped one machine I believe finally and uh in this quarter and next quarter 1:13:30 1 hour, 13 minutes, 30 seconds I'll be able to ship the remaining machines that we had like a few machines like not a huge backlog but we have a few machines that we need to ship out 1:13:37 1 hour, 13 minutes, 37 seconds that will reduce the losses in Q4 and Q1 or you know help us do it. So that will definitely help improve the overall 1:13:46 1 hour, 13 minutes, 46 seconds performance [clears throat] and at the same time we're also getting a strong uh push in the core packaging business. I wouldn't say it's particularly 1:13:54 1 hour, 13 minutes, 54 seconds profitable. It's more to you know help popularize the product and scale people up so that they start becoming uh you 1:14:01 1 hour, 14 minutes, 1 second know machine customers and or or do the core packing elsewhere with our our package and so on. So I think from that 1:14:08 1 hour, 14 minutes, 8 seconds perspective it's it's looking positive you know. Um yeah and I said I'd given a specific guidance that in Q1 and Q2 in 1:14:15 1 hour, 14 minutes, 15 seconds India will be break even in the packaging business and profitable by Q3 and Q4 and in Q3 and Q4 of this coming 1:14:23 1 hour, 14 minutes, 23 seconds year I expect that Italy to be break even. So there'll be losses but they'll be on a declining platform from now on. 1:14:32 1 hour, 14 minutes, 32 seconds Okay. And one last question uh like do we maintain the current like mine growths what uh you like projected uh in 1:14:42 1 hour, 14 minutes, 42 seconds the earlier calls. So we we maintain that guidance. Can you repeat that again please? 1:14:51 1 hour, 14 minutes, 51 seconds So I was saying like uh we projected mid teams growth right in the previous corn call. So do we like uh project we stand 1:15:00 1 hour, 15 minutes on that projection right or do we have certain right now I think we've got the 9 month figures and and so on ji like some 16% 1:15:09 1 hour, 15 minutes, 9 seconds growth or something yeah 16% growth correct yeah so yeah hopefully it will continue 1:15:16 1 hour, 15 minutes, 16 seconds on a standalone basis in that that zone or something so yeah I mean for three quarters and obviously like you know 1:15:24 1 hour, 15 minutes, 24 seconds like I said if if the the coding and marking market is growing at a certain pace and then hopefully we'll be able to grow faster than that. So uh so probably 1:15:32 1 hour, 15 minutes, 32 seconds maintain that for this year for 9 months and uh of course for next year we'll definitely see for next year. 1:15:43 1 hour, 15 minutes, 43 seconds Thank you sir. Okay. Thank you. 1:15:45 1 hour, 15 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you. Since that was the last question would you like to give any closing comments? 1:15:54 1 hour, 15 minutes, 54 seconds Just want to thank everyone for participating and really appreciate your time. Obviously I think a lot of questions regarding the gap between the 1:16:03 1 hour, 16 minutes, 3 seconds standalone and the consolidated and then because of some tax reasons the the PAT looks a bit poor 1:16:10 1 hour, 16 minutes, 10 seconds but uh I'm we quite convinced that the standalone and the consolidate will start merging in this coming financial year. 1:16:19 1 hour, 16 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. Thank you so much everybody. It was nice to have you on the call and keep supporting us. 1:16:26 1 hour, 16 minutes, 26 seconds Thank you. Thank you to the management team and thank you to all the participants for joining on this call. 1:16:30 1 hour, 16 minutes, 30 seconds This brings us to the end of this conference call. Thank you. 1:16:39 1 hour, 16 minutes, 39 seconds The recording has stopped.