Carborundum Universal Limited — Q4 FY26

Carborundum Universal Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lzo_OjYAjY Published: 1d ago

0:02 2 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Carbonom Universal Q4 FI26 earnings conference call hosted by Equal 0:11 11 seconds Securities Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there'll be an opportunity for you to ask questions 0:19 19 seconds after the presentations. And should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone. 0:29 29 seconds Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Harshett Patel from Equest Securities. 0:37 37 seconds Thank you and over to you Mr. Patel. Uh thank you. Uh hello uh good morning to everyone. Uh we welcome you to 0:44 44 seconds Carburandum Universal 4Q FI26 and fullyear FI26 earning conference call. 0:52 52 seconds We have with us from the management Mr. 0:54 54 seconds Shri Dharan Ranga Rajan managing director and Mr. G Chundra Mali advisor and head of investor relations. I would 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds now request the management to give their opening remarks on how the fourth quarter as well as full F26 went by and provide some outlook for the future. 1:13 1 minute, 13 seconds Over to you sir. 1:15 1 minute, 15 seconds Good morning. I'm Chandra Modi. Let us start the proceeding with a disclaimer. 1:20 1 minute, 20 seconds During this call, we make certain statement which reflect our outlook for the future or which could be considered as forward-looking statement. These 1:28 1 minute, 28 seconds statements are based on management current expectations and are associated with uncertaintities and risk or more fully detailed in our annual report 1:37 1 minute, 37 seconds which may cause the actual result to differ. Hence, these statements must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. Thank you. 1:47 1 minute, 47 seconds Thank you. Uh good morning to all of you and a very warm welcome to our fourth quarter and fully adjourning call for the financial year FI26. 1:59 1 minute, 59 seconds I trust uh you and your family members are safe and healthy. We'll begin this call by providing providing an overview 2:07 2 minutes, 7 seconds of the company's performance for the full year FI26 and Q4 FI26 followed by an outlook uh for FI27. 2:18 2 minutes, 18 seconds We also plan to share some glimpses of the our aspiration 2030 later in the call. 2:28 2 minutes, 28 seconds To start with uh standalone sales on a full year basis standalone sales in FI26 2:35 2 minutes, 35 seconds was uh 3,24 cores compared to 2784 crores in FI25. 2:43 2 minutes, 43 seconds This is a growth of 8.6%. 2:46 2 minutes, 46 seconds It may be noted that the company has crossed the mark of 3,000 cr in standalone revenue this year. Growth at 2:54 2 minutes, 54 seconds standalone level was driven by the electro mineral segment which grew by 11.1% 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second recording a sales of 96 crores compared to 815 crores last year. 3:08 3 minutes, 8 seconds Ceramic segment grew from 939 crores last year to,000 crores in this year. 3:16 3 minutes, 16 seconds This is a growth of 6.5%. 3:20 3 minutes, 20 seconds A braces increased from sales of,195 crores in FI25 to,270 3:28 3 minutes, 28 seconds crores in FI26 marking a growth of 6.2%. 3:35 3 minutes, 35 seconds Across the standalone segment, growth rebounded strongly over H2 and particularly in Q4 FI26. 3:44 3 minutes, 44 seconds Standalone sales increased from,410 crores in H1 FI26 to,614 3:52 3 minutes, 52 seconds crores in H2 FI26 reflecting a strong sequential growth of 14.4%. 4:00 4 minutes On a year-on-year basis, H2FI26 grew by around 14.1% compared to,45 crores in H2 FI25. 4:13 4 minutes, 13 seconds You may note that H1 FI26 was only marginally higher by about 3%. 4:20 4 minutes, 20 seconds Standalone abbrasive grew from 594 crores in H1 FI26 4:25 4 minutes, 25 seconds to 675 crores in H2 FI 2 36 which is a growth of 13.7% 4:34 4 minutes, 34 seconds uh on a sequential basis on a year-on-year basis. Abbrasive grew 15.6% 6% compared to the last year same period 4:43 4 minutes, 43 seconds ceramic increased from 466 crores in H1 FI26 to 534 course in H2 FI26 marking a sequential growth of 14.5%. 4:56 4 minutes, 56 seconds Yearon year it grew by 8% in H2 FI26 and 4.9% in H1 FI26. 5:05 5 minutes, 5 seconds electro minerals from 425 crores in H1 FI26 to 481 5:12 5 minutes, 12 seconds crores in H2FI26 an increase of 13.2% 2% sequence and on a yearon-year basis the sequin delivered 5:21 5 minutes, 21 seconds a strong growth of 15.5% in H2 FI26 and 6.5% in H1 FI26. 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds Overall, the growth in H2FI26 was broad-based across all segments with abrasive, ceramics, electro minerals all 5:38 5 minutes, 38 seconds contributing doubledigit sequential growth leading to a strong performance in comparison with H2 FI25 as well as in comparison to H1 FI26. 5:50 5 minutes, 50 seconds In Q4 FI26, standalone recorded at 845 crores compared to 769 crores in Q3 5:59 5 minutes, 59 seconds FI26, reflecting a sequential growth of 9.9% compared to 686 6:06 6 minutes, 6 seconds crores Q2 FI26. Sales grew by 23.1% in that period. The braces grew from 323 6:15 6 minutes, 15 seconds crores in Q3 FI26 to 353 crores in Q4 FI26 marking an increase of 9.3% 6:24 6 minutes, 24 seconds sequentially and compared to Q4 FI25 it recorded a strong growth of 21.5%. 6:32 6 minutes, 32 seconds ceramic increased 200 from 255 crores in Q3 FI26 to 279 crores in Q4 FI26 marking 6:41 6 minutes, 41 seconds an increase of 9.2% sequentially and compared to Q4 FI25 it grew by 21.7%. 6:50 6 minutes, 50 seconds Electro Minerals rose from 229 crores in Q3 FI26 to 252 crores in Q426 marking a 6:59 6 minutes, 59 seconds growth of 9.7% sequentially and compared to Q4 FI25 it grew by 22.3%. 7:09 7 minutes, 9 seconds Standalone profit after tax uh FI26 PAT was 216 crores compared to FI25 PAT of 7:18 7 minutes, 18 seconds 322 crores reflecting a growth of 29.4% year one year. The PAT of FI26 includes 7:27 7 minutes, 27 seconds a dividend uh from one of the subsidy about 76 crores. H1 FI26 PAT stood at 7:34 7 minutes, 34 seconds 209 course compared to H1 PAT of um 185 180 crores registering a growth of 16.4%. 7:45 7 minutes, 45 seconds H2 FI26 PAT was uh 207 crores compared to the H2 FI 25 PAT of 142 crores a strong growth of 45.9%. 7:58 7 minutes, 58 seconds Q4 FI26 PAT came in at 122 crores compared to Q4 FI25 PAT of 61 crores resulting in doubling of profit in this quarter. 8:09 8 minutes, 9 seconds Now I move to the consolidated results. 8:13 8 minutes, 13 seconds Consolidated sales on a fullear basis was about 5,149 crores in FI26. This marks a growth of 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds 6.5% over the sale of 4,833 coursees in FI25. 8:29 8 minutes, 29 seconds It may be noted that the company has surpassed the mark of 5,000 crores in a consolidated revenue this year. 8:35 8 minutes, 35 seconds Consolidated growth was driven by ceramic segment which grew from,160 crores to,268 crores marking a growth of 8:44 8 minutes, 44 seconds 9.3%. Consolidated abbrasive segment grew by 5.1% from 2,159 crores to 2271 crores. 8:53 8 minutes, 53 seconds Consolidated electro minerals grew by 3.7% going from,574 crores to,632 9:01 9 minutes, 1 second crores. The meter consolidated electromineral growth reflects the higher base in FI25 due to VAW. You will 9:09 9 minutes, 9 seconds note that W was sanctioned in January 2025. So in FI25 W had a normal sale of three quart three quarters. 9:18 9 minutes, 18 seconds In Q4 FI26 consolidated sales were,383 crores compared to,199 crores. This a growth of 15.4%. 9:28 9 minutes, 28 seconds Growth in Q4 was driven by brace which grew by 13.4%, ceramic which grew by 18.6% electro which grew by 14.6% over Q425. 9:42 9 minutes, 42 seconds Compared to Q3 26 which recorded sales of,273 cr sales in Q4 grew by 8.7%. 9:51 9 minutes, 51 seconds During the last call I said the consolidated sales would go by 5.5 to 6.5%. Against this we have a we have recorded a growth of 6.5%. 10:03 10 minutes, 3 seconds Now I'll cover the consolidated uh PB profit consolidated PBT before exceptions in FI26. Consolidated profit 10:12 10 minutes, 12 seconds before exceptional item and taxes stood at 416 crores compared to 572 crores in 10:19 10 minutes, 19 seconds the previous year reflecting a drop of 27.2% 2% year on year. A majority of this decline was on account of VAW 10:27 10 minutes, 27 seconds almost about 87 crores. Fossar almost about 22 crores, AU 19 crores, rodius 10:34 10 minutes, 34 seconds about 46 crores. I will cover all these in detail later. 10:40 10 minutes, 40 seconds exceptional items uh fascar and uh ao 10:46 10 minutes, 46 seconds in FI26 exceptional items amounting to 135 crores have been recorded in cons consolidated financial statement. In 10:54 10 minutes, 54 seconds FI25 there was an amount of 140 104 crores for the provisions relating to the foreign currency deposit and 11:02 11 minutes, 2 seconds receivable outside of Kumi group following the impos imposition of sanctions in January 2025. During the 11:10 11 minutes, 10 seconds financial year, Kim International Limited, the holding company of Awoko approved to initiate 11:17 11 minutes, 17 seconds the closure of AUO through a voluntary winding up process under the applicable loss in Germany considering the 11:24 11 minutes, 24 seconds continual interperformance of the subs with the mounting losses and its inability to turn around in view of the prevailing market conditions. 11:34 11 minutes, 34 seconds So exceptional items relating to this closure amounts to 119 crores. Fascus zuconia private limited is a subsidiary of Kumi International Limited. 11:45 11 minutes, 45 seconds Um Kumi holds 51% stake in Fascar Zukonia. Fascus Zukonia has not been able to achieve sustainable profit since 11:54 11 minutes, 54 seconds 2013 despite several strategic and operational restructuring initiatives undertaken in the past. Further 12:01 12 minutes, 1 second escalation electricity and other input costs in South Africa coupled with the intensifying global competition and 12:08 12 minutes, 8 seconds foreign exchange fluctuations has rendered the business commercially unviable. Turnaround initiatives have been adversely impacted by the 12:16 12 minutes, 16 seconds prevailing market conditions marking continuation of operations unsustainable. Accordingly, the board of 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds Zukonia based on the recommendations of the management have concluded that there is no realistic alternative to carry on 12:31 12 minutes, 31 seconds the operation and will be seeking requisite approvals in this process. 12:35 12 minutes, 35 seconds Accordingly, the consolidated FI26 financials include the impact of 16 crores relating to the write down of various assets to the realist value. 12:48 12 minutes, 48 seconds Now I will cover the profit before interest and tax. uh standalone PBIT a standalone level. 12:55 12 minutes, 55 seconds The business reported a total PBT of 525 crores in FI26 as compared to rupees 425 13:03 13 minutes, 3 seconds crores in FI25 reflecting a strong growth of 23.4% segment results of 491 13:10 13 minutes, 10 seconds crores in FI26 is marginally higher than the results of 418 crores in FI25. 13:17 13 minutes, 17 seconds At segment level, electro minerals delivered a strong performance, increasing from 63 crores to 83 crores, registering a robust growth of 31.1%. 13:26 13 minutes, 26 seconds Abggressive PBT was 195 crores in FI26 compared to 193 crores in FI25 registering marginal growth of about.9%. 13:37 13 minutes, 37 seconds Ceramics declined from 233 course to 214 reflecting a drop of 8%. We'll cover 13:45 13 minutes, 45 seconds this later in the call. Consolidated PB80 consolidated PB8 was 404 crores in FI26 compared to 541 crores in FI25. 13:56 13 minutes, 56 seconds This marks a decline of 25.3%. 13:59 13 minutes, 59 seconds The drop is due to NAW, Fascar, Rauo and Rodius as explained earlier. I will cover this later in details. Now I'll go 14:07 14 minutes, 7 seconds to the segmental performance. uh abrasive segmental performance consolidated abbrraces consolidated abbrasives recorded a sales of 2271 14:16 14 minutes, 16 seconds crores in FI26 as compared to 2159 crores in FI25 registering a growth of 14:24 14 minutes, 24 seconds 5.1% on a quarterly basis sales of 610 crores in Q426 grew by 13.4% 4% compared 14:32 14 minutes, 32 seconds to 538 crores in Q4 FI25. On a sequential basis, sales grew from 569 14:40 14 minutes, 40 seconds crores in Q3 FI26 to 610 crores in Q4 FI26 reflecting growth of 7.2%. 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds Consolidated abraasive sales growth uh was driven by growth in standalone 14:54 14 minutes, 54 seconds segment Rodius abraasives a braces kumi America and sterling abracesses 15:01 15 minutes, 1 second during our last call I communicated a sales growth of 4 to 5% in consolidated abraasis we can expect we are now at a growth of 5.1%. 15:13 15 minutes, 13 seconds Now I'll cover standard abrasive. 15:15 15 minutes, 15 seconds Standard abrasive level abrasive is recorded a full year performance of,270 course as compared to,195 crores reflecting a growth of 6.2%. 15:27 15 minutes, 27 seconds On a half yearly basis H1 26 stood at 594 crores against 611 crores in H125 15:36 15 minutes, 36 seconds registering decline of 2.8%. However, in H2 showed a strong recovery increasing 15:42 15 minutes, 42 seconds to 675 crores from 585 crores in H2 FI25 reflecting a growth of 15.6%. 15:51 15 minutes, 51 seconds The overall the performance improved from 594 crores to in H1 FI26 to 675 15:59 15 minutes, 59 seconds crores in H2 FI26 marking a growth of 13.7% sequentially. So overall the fullear 16:07 16 minutes, 7 seconds growth was driven by a strong rebound in the second half. Uh you would note that the business faced such issues such as 16:15 16 minutes, 15 seconds inventory correction from the dealer channel and seasonal rains which delay construction activity in some markets, tippid demand and industrial segment and 16:23 16 minutes, 23 seconds a short period of caution in the northern markets following Pelgam attack. 16:29 16 minutes, 29 seconds We undertook a range of gotom market initiatives including market expansion activities such as dealer appointment new product introduction rebranding of 16:38 16 minutes, 38 seconds established products in newer geographies onboarding of key potential OEMs as customers and a host of other initiatives. Besides this implementation 16:47 16 minutes, 47 seconds of GST rate rationalization and a rebound uh in festival season demand provider a growth impetus. 16:56 16 minutes, 56 seconds Uh I'll move to Rodius Abbrasives. 17:00 17 minutes RHDIS abrasives uh the sales was in FI26 was 61 million euro compared to sales of euro 67 million FI25. 17:10 17 minutes, 10 seconds This marks a decline of 8.8%. 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds Q1 FI26 RDS made a transition to a new third party logistics partner. 17:19 17 minutes, 19 seconds Considering the long-term operational efficiencies, this transition resulted in loss of sales of about 05 million. We communicated this earlier with you. 17:29 17 minutes, 29 seconds While operations assumed to normaly by Q2 FI26, the loss sales in Q5 Q1 FI26 17:36 17 minutes, 36 seconds could not be regain over the rest of the years. 17:41 17 minutes, 41 seconds Um yeah so in uh on account so overall I 17:48 17 minutes, 48 seconds think they delivered uh sales of 61 million compared to 67 million. We expect sales in FI27 to grow by 5% in 17:57 17 minutes, 57 seconds FI27 and uh the loss uh the pat loss in FI26 18:05 18 minutes, 5 seconds was 2.6 million compared to 2 million in FI25. 18:10 18 minutes, 10 seconds Uh we expect FI26 the pad to be of very smaller loss. 18:16 18 minutes, 16 seconds Ki Aoko braces Aoko recorded a sales of 10.5 million in FI26 compared to sales of 10.1 million in FI25. This is a 18:26 18 minutes, 26 seconds growth of 4.6% in euro terms. The loss before exceptional and tax increase from 18:33 18 minutes, 33 seconds 6.6 million euro to 7.7 million euro in FI26 is marked an increase of 15.8%. 18:41 18 minutes, 41 seconds Losses were higher in AU on account of various factors. uh we anyhow we have decided to wind down the company as 18:50 18 minutes, 50 seconds following the legal process as given by the respective countries abrasive PBIT in the standalone abrasives FI26 record 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds a marginal growth of.9% year-over-year looking at the halfyear dynamics there was a strong sequential 19:07 19 minutes, 7 seconds recovery with H2FI26 growing by approximately 31.3% over H126 six. 19:16 19 minutes, 16 seconds While there was a significant gain in the momentum over H2 due to reasons explained earlier, the impact of all lower volumes in H1 and the resultant 19:26 19 minutes, 26 seconds lower cost absorption offset the profitability gains in H2. 19:31 19 minutes, 31 seconds A standalone PB margin percentage decreased from 16.1% in FI25 to 15.3 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds uh percent 81 bips dropped. This decline was mostly on account of the lower volume in H1 FI26. 19:46 19 minutes, 46 seconds At a consolidated level, PBT margin dropped by 36.2% going from 151 crores to 97 crores. Higher losses at RODS uh 19:56 19 minutes, 56 seconds AUO contributed to this decline. You know, RODS lost 45 crores versus uh 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds nearly 44 crores in FI24 and AU 75 crores of loss versus 58 crores of loss. 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds Last year at the consolid level PB80 percentage of abrasive segment dropped from 7% to 4.3%. 20:19 20 minutes, 19 seconds During the last call I said PB8 margin of abrasive would be 4.4% to 4.5% we are now at 4.3%. 20:27 20 minutes, 27 seconds EMG segmental performance consolidated electrons of consolid record a sales of,632 20:35 20 minutes, 35 seconds crores in FI26 compared to sales of,574 crores in FI25. This marks a growth of 3.7%. 20:44 20 minutes, 44 seconds The growth at consolid level is entirely on account of lower sales at U BW 20:50 20 minutes, 50 seconds Russia which declined by 22% in INR terms in the electro mineral segment. 20:56 20 minutes, 56 seconds VAW Russia in ruble terms recorded sales of 6 point almost 6 billion um rubles 21:04 21 minutes, 4 seconds compared to 9 bill 9.4 billion rubles in FI25. This marks a decline of 35.3%. 21:13 21 minutes, 13 seconds Sales in abrasive segment in VAW was about 14% lower compared to FI25. Sales in ceramic segment was lower by 31% compared to FI25. 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds Profit before exceptional items and tax of the entity declined from 1.7 billion in FI25 to ruble 617 million in FI26. 21:38 21 minutes, 38 seconds Lower sales and profits are on account of the sanctions imposed by USA despite the volume being considerably lower. The 21:45 21 minutes, 45 seconds business continues to be profitable profitable at its current level of operation. 21:50 21 minutes, 50 seconds Standard electrominerals and the standard electro minerals. 21:54 21 minutes, 54 seconds Electromineral recorded a fullear performance of 96 crores in FI26 as compared to 815 crores in FI25 22:03 22 minutes, 3 seconds reflecting a strong growth of 11.1% on a half yearly basis. H1 uh 26 stood at 425 22:11 22 minutes, 11 seconds crores against 39 m 199 in H125 registering growth of 6.5%. 22:18 22 minutes, 18 seconds H2 FI26 increased to 481 crores from 416 crores reflecting a stronger growth of 15.5%. 22:27 22 minutes, 27 seconds Sequentially the performance improved from 425 crores to 481 crores with a growth of 13.2%. 22:35 22 minutes, 35 seconds Overall the full year growth was driven by stronger growth in exports. exports grew by 100% from FI25 to FI26 and 22:44 22 minutes, 44 seconds currently contribute to little over 33% of the total sales compared to 11% of the sales in FI25. Exports were driven 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds by leveraging business existing relationship with many global OEMs across abrasives and refractories. 22:58 22 minutes, 58 seconds Introduc introduction of treated grains coupled with anti-dumping duties against Chinese grains by EU all helped to 23:05 23 minutes, 5 seconds achieve this. Fascar Zukonia private limited sales at Fascar Zukonia recorded 465 million rand compared to 415 million 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds rand in FI25. This marks a growth of 11.2% 2% in rand terms. 23:21 23 minutes, 21 seconds Um the loss after tax increased ran 27 million in FI25 to uh 77 million in FI26. 23:31 23 minutes, 31 seconds In terms of loss before exceptional and tax increased from 37 crores in FI25 23:38 23 minutes, 38 seconds to 77 crores. uh the volatility in zukon sand price drop in uh Z450 price and an 23:47 23 minutes, 47 seconds appreciation of the rand against the US dollar impacted the bottom line and hence the losses increase. So we decided 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds to find that this is not viable anymore to continue electromineral PBT consolidated PBT on a 24:02 24 minutes, 2 seconds fullear basis recorded 91 crores in FI26 compared to 177 crores in FI25. A 24:10 24 minutes, 10 seconds majority of this job was on account of the sales drop due to sanctions at VAW and on account of the higher losses at Foscus Zonia. Sandal chrome minerals PB8 24:20 24 minutes, 20 seconds grew by 31.1% at 82 cores compared to 63 cores. 24:26 24 minutes, 26 seconds During the last call I gave a guidance of 1% to 2% of the sales growth in consolidated electron minerals. We are at 3.7% now the last call I said PB8 24:35 24 minutes, 35 seconds margin could be 4 and a half% 5.5% we are at about 5.6%. 24:41 24 minutes, 41 seconds Consolidated ceramic consolidated ceramic sales of full year was 1,268 crores compared to sales of,160 crores in FI25 which marks a growth of 9.3%. 24:53 24 minutes, 53 seconds Um growth was driven by standalone business which grew from 939 crores to,000 crores in FI26. 25:03 25 minutes, 3 seconds I'll cover in detail the ceramics. I'll first cover ceramics portion of the business. Our ceramic segment consists of industrial ceram ceramics which is 25:12 25 minutes, 12 seconds 57% of the ceramic segment and refractors which is 43% of the ceramic segment. Industrial ceramics full year 25:20 25 minutes, 20 seconds sales stood at 569 crores in FI26 compared to 528 crores in FI25 reflecting a growth of 7.8%. 25:31 25 minutes, 31 seconds um uh sales in H2 grew u by about 10.7%. 25:39 25 minutes, 39 seconds And industrial ceramic is broadly divided into three segments where ceramics, engineered ceramics and metallized ceram ceramics 25:48 25 minutes, 48 seconds where ceramics uh which constitute roughly 30%age of the business offers web assistance products and engineered 25:55 25 minutes, 55 seconds ceramics which constitutes about roughly again onethird of the business as a suit of customized engineered ceramics such 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds as C channels, spark plugs, rings, x-ray image intensified tubes etc. Metallized cylinders are used in vacuum 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds interrupterss in the power transmission and distribution industry that constitute another one-third of the business. Standalone wear ceramic 26:17 26 minutes, 17 seconds business which degs to three broad geographical segment. It sells products to Kumi Australia, Cumi 26:26 26 minutes, 26 seconds America and India. Um while the Australia grew by roughly about 13%, 26:33 26 minutes, 33 seconds India also grew well by 12%. The export to America uh degrew by 40%. Within the 26:41 26 minutes, 41 seconds ware production business, sales in Australian subsidy grew by 13% driven by strong orders with the OEMs. 26:49 26 minutes, 49 seconds Uh domestic business grew by 12% and engineer ceramic segment grew by 30% uh driven by the sorcery segment which is 26:57 26 minutes, 57 seconds seeing a strong demand uh in the AIdriven center data center segment. 27:03 27 minutes, 3 seconds Metalized cylinder business grew by 9%, the segment which typically grows about 14% was impacted by product related 27:11 27 minutes, 11 seconds challenge that cropped up in um production related challenge that cropped up in H1 but um got addressed by 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds Q4. This was resolved by Q4. Operations are back to normal. Hence there is a uh fall in growth to 9%. I'll cover 27:28 27 minutes, 28 seconds refractories now. Full year refractories um consist of two broad segments. 27:33 27 minutes, 33 seconds Refractories and anti-corrosive uh products. Uh refractories constitute 77% anti-corrosive constitute 23%. 27:41 27 minutes, 41 seconds Segments stood at 437 crores compared to 418 crores refracting growth of 4.7%. 27:48 27 minutes, 48 seconds The refractory business dropped by 4.3% compared to uh H1 FI25 and this was aided by strong return of deferred 27:58 27 minutes, 58 seconds projects especially in the glass segment. Orders in anti-corrosive uh and structural composite business have been 28:05 28 minutes, 5 seconds well sustained over the year. Uh the anti they grew very well uh in last year. uh sales driven by fertilizing and industry in structural compulses. 28:15 28 minutes, 15 seconds Business demand was strong in various sectors. During the last call, we gave a sales of growth of 13 to 14% in ceramic. 28:22 28 minutes, 22 seconds We achieved 9.3% growth in ceramics. 28:28 28 minutes, 28 seconds We move to capex. Uh consolidated capex was 309 crores of standalone constituted 235 crores. We communicated capex 28:37 28 minutes, 37 seconds estimate of 350 crores during our last calls. I will provide a brief about what capex we did last year. In FI26, we 28:45 28 minutes, 45 seconds commissioned the first module of exclusive facility for the manufacturing of advanced ceramic components for semiconductor wafer fabrication equipment with a capex outlay of 664. 28:56 28 minutes, 56 seconds The facility comprised of an end-to-end capability from preparation of high purity powders to precision machineing and cleaning will cater key global OEMs 29:05 29 minutes, 5 seconds like applied materials. Serial supplies of qualified products will commence in FI27 with the line utilization gradually 29:13 29 minutes, 13 seconds improving. Uh further expansions in line uh with the development road map and long-term strategy is on is very much 29:21 29 minutes, 21 seconds there in the first year of serial production in FI26. The focus would be on assimulating technologies and 29:28 29 minutes, 28 seconds establishing stronger system. A gradual ramp up in FI26. The focus supplies to 29:34 29 minutes, 34 seconds the key customer applied materials will be on in aerospace and defense segment. 29:40 29 minutes, 40 seconds We have commissioned the new facility with an outlay of 49 crores to produce advanced ceramics for ballastic production of vehicle and personnel. The 29:49 29 minutes, 49 seconds business is expected to scale up uh high in 2030 gradually. Further ramping up uh uh will happen around that 29:58 29 minutes, 58 seconds time. In this segment we have secured stenag four qualification of vehicle armor and for personal protection of ceramic qualified BIS threat level five 30:08 30 minutes, 8 seconds and six equivalent to nig3 plus and four levels. We are awaiting um SCOMAT approval which will enable us to expand 30:17 30 minutes, 17 seconds the business. The next major program uh is the upgradation of existing white fuse aluminina furnace from 2 MVA to 30:24 30 minutes, 24 seconds four uh 4.5 MVA which will increase the existing capacities substantially. Capex outlay for this is about 53 course 30:33 30 minutes, 33 seconds including installation of 110 KV substation to meet the future power requirements of the plant. The incremental capacity will have a maximum 30:42 30 minutes, 42 seconds revenue potential of 95 crores for the full utilization. We have increased the treatment facility as well. This is a 30:49 30 minutes, 49 seconds capex outlay of 30 crores. This capex is a maximum potential revenue of about 120 crores. 30:56 30 minutes, 56 seconds U additionally pilot facility was established for the manufacturing of ceramic powders for solid oxide fuel cells. The facility will leverage the technology tie up we had with the CGCRI. 31:08 31 minutes, 8 seconds During the year the business also entered into an agreement with the leading industry expert for the transfer technology towards manufacturing of 31:16 31 minutes, 16 seconds aluminum nitrate and silicon nitrate powders. The next major uh growth project is the commissioning of thin 31:23 31 minutes, 23 seconds wheel capacity at Huzour using the assets that we bought from drone. uh 31:29 31 minutes, 29 seconds total capex outlay is 83 crores and uh can produce 46 million thin wheels uh with a peak revenue of about 120 crores. 31:40 31 minutes, 40 seconds Um FCF free cash flow on a full year basis at a consolidated level is 56.6% to PAT compared to last year 16.1%. 31:49 31 minutes, 49 seconds Standalone level the FCF to PAT was 46.5% compared to 14% last year. Deputy ratio is 08. Um now I'll go to the guidance. 32:01 32 minutes, 1 second At the consolidated level we expect the sales to grow approximately 4% to 4.5% in FI27. 32:10 32 minutes, 10 seconds However, if you exclude the revenue contributed from Fasconia and Kumiaoko which accounts to 343 crores in FI26 32:18 32 minutes, 18 seconds sales and compare it with our business plan comparable growth would be 11 to 12%. Consolidated abrasive sales are expected to grow by 5.5% to 6%. 32:31 32 minutes, 31 seconds However, if you exclude the revenue from AUKO, which is about 108 crores, uh in FI26, sales growth would be 11% to 12%. 32:40 32 minutes, 40 seconds Consolidated ceramic growth is expected to be in the range of 15 to 15.5%. 32:45 32 minutes, 45 seconds Consolidated electro mineral sales are expected to decline by 6.57% on account of the closure of fascia which accounted for 235 crores in FI26. 32:57 32 minutes, 57 seconds However, if you exclude the revenue contribution from fascia in FI26 and compare it with the what we are planning 33:04 33 minutes, 4 seconds to do in FI27, the growth would be 8 to 9%. 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds Consolidated abrasive margins are expected to be around 9.5 to 10%. Reported margin in FI26 is 4.3%. 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds However, if you exclude the comparable margin, if you exclude Aoko losses, it would be a 7.9%. So basically it will grow from 7.9% to 9 and after 10%. 33:30 33 minutes, 30 seconds Consolidated ceramic margin would be 20.5 to 21%. The reported margins uh 20.2%. 2%. 33:39 33 minutes, 39 seconds Consolidated electromineral margin could be 9% to 9.5%. Uh in FI26 the reported margin is 5.6%. 33:49 33 minutes, 49 seconds However, if you exclude the loss of zirconia and compare it uh the FI26 margin would be 9.1%. So basically from 9.1 it would be 9% to 9.5%. 34:02 34 minutes, 2 seconds We expect to uh do a capex of about 400 crores in FI27. The key capex program for FI26 include expansion of advanced 34:11 34 minutes, 11 seconds ceramics for power electronics including substrate metallized tubes, rings, braced assemblies, expansion of brown 34:20 34 minutes, 20 seconds aluminina and addition of integrated furnace facility for thermal spray powders and zirconia furnace uh and green grain 34:28 34 minutes, 28 seconds processing facility. We also intend to do 110 KV substation and tunnel clean for refractories. These are the major 34:36 34 minutes, 36 seconds projects which should account for about 400 floors of capex. 34:40 34 minutes, 40 seconds Now I would uh quickly cover uh our uh aspiration 2030. 34:47 34 minutes, 47 seconds Uh the company launched uh is aspiration 2030 in FI26 is the first year. The 34:55 34 minutes, 55 seconds aspiration is built on seven key building blocks. Building a high performance organization. Ambitious growth for the current businesses. 35:03 35 minutes, 3 seconds focusing on innovation, exploring new opportunities for the growth, uh achieving manufacturing excellence, strengthening sales and marketing 35:12 35 minutes, 12 seconds excellence and supporting all this through digital and ESG initiatives. 35:17 35 minutes, 17 seconds Progress is regularly tracked through structured reviews involving teams across the business. In abrasive business, the company has a clear market 35:26 35 minutes, 26 seconds strategy across the segments in its expanding dealer network, strengthening relationship with existing partners. The 35:33 35 minutes, 33 seconds focus is also gaining on the new customers and increasing business with the current ones. The company is strengthening its presence in the areas 35:41 35 minutes, 41 seconds where it has currently low presence. It has also growing sourcing of business sourcing business and has set up a new 35:49 35 minutes, 49 seconds vertical for this. a clear road map for the new products to be introduced with the wellsupported investment in R&D team and capability and process building in 35:58 35 minutes, 58 seconds in R&D team. The thin wheel capacity based on assets acquired through Dramco has been discussed earlier to stay competitive against the low price 36:06 36 minutes, 6 seconds products especially from China. The company has launched a cost optimization program um across significant SKUs and 36:14 36 minutes, 14 seconds strengthen the coordination between sales, product development and quality teams using digital tools. 36:21 36 minutes, 21 seconds In the electromineral business, the capacity is being expanded by upgrading furnaces. The company is also increasing its capacity in valuated products in 36:30 36 minutes, 30 seconds aluminas and diversifying the raw material sourcing. Exports are a key priority and already form a significant share of the business. Electromineral I 36:39 36 minutes, 39 seconds would like you to look at it in three broad categories. Core our range of fused aluminina products including BFA, 36:47 36 minutes, 47 seconds WFA and silicon carbide products constitute our core product portfolio. 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds We have expansion plans in both WFA and BFA. While the core products will continue to form the bulk of our product 37:00 37 minutes basket, its share is expected to current level of 85% it will come down to 55 to 60% by 2030 as other product categories 37:09 37 minutes, 9 seconds would scale up. Treated products, treated products which include products that undergo heat treatment and quoting are relatively high performing in 37:18 37 minutes, 18 seconds nature. As discussed earlier, we are undergoing undertaking a related capex in initiative in this area. We aim to 37:25 37 minutes, 25 seconds increase the share of treated uh grains from 5 to 6% at the current level nearly 37:31 37 minutes, 31 seconds 20% by 2030. Specialtity products. The business currently manufactures aluminum zukonia products catering to 37:39 37 minutes, 39 seconds applications in abrasive refractories, metal matrix, composes and related industries. 37:45 37 minutes, 45 seconds We also produce uh some zircon mulite grains. We have expansion plans for both arina zukonia as well as zermul. In 37:53 37 minutes, 53 seconds addition as part of the LTS initiative we plan to start production of calcia stability zirconia and monocin zirconia. 38:00 38 minutes Uh collectively this suit of vironia based products will form specialtity products portfolio whose share is 38:08 38 minutes, 8 seconds expected to increase from 8% currently to 18 to 20% by 2030. 38:14 38 minutes, 14 seconds transformational products. At the same time, the company is investing in new technologies and products such as SOFC powders and nitrates which are expected 38:22 38 minutes, 22 seconds to drive future growth. In FI26, we have commissioned a pilot lab facility with a spray pyrolysis technology to prepare powders for SOFC and so easy cathodes. 38:32 38 minutes, 32 seconds This was done based on the technology transform CGC. Going forward, we will focus on capacity creation and securing 38:40 38 minutes, 40 seconds anchor customers. There has been good progress on nitrate side as well with a leading technology consultant being onboarded in this year. Apart from this 38:48 38 minutes, 48 seconds business has achieved five and purity on HPSIC and will be working on securing customers for the same over FI27. The 38:55 38 minutes, 55 seconds technology route for 6 and purity of HPSIC also been initiated and the business is currently working on a pilot scale manufacturing facility for the 39:03 39 minutes, 3 seconds same. Besides this, we are working on establishing application for graphing in bioplastics, coating, concrete and 39:10 39 minutes, 10 seconds rubber. All these areas such as thermal spray powders, electrolytes or ceramic powders for SOC, SOC, 39:18 39 minutes, 18 seconds nitrites, HPSIC, graphine are collectively called transformational products. We expect transformational products to contribute around 10% by 2030 compared to the current level. 39:30 39 minutes, 30 seconds Practically very little growth in this segment is expected to be gradual as these are advanced materials catering to 39:37 39 minutes, 37 seconds the emerging sector. We believe we need to create a good base in the trans transformational product in the aspiration period and create a new leg 39:45 39 minutes, 45 seconds of growth beyond 2030. Ceramics. When we come to industrial cer ceramic segment, we can view it as core and emerging 39:54 39 minutes, 54 seconds businesses where metalized cylinders, vacuum interruptors, sorry, metalized cylinders for vacuum interrupterss, engineer ceramics for diverse 40:03 40 minutes, 3 seconds applications would fall under the core business. Emerging business encompass components for semiconductor wafer fab equipment, aerospace and defense electronic substrates. 40:14 40 minutes, 14 seconds In the core segment, the business plan is to increase metalized cylinder capacity substantially from the current level. Additionally, the business would 40:23 40 minutes, 23 seconds expand production facility to meet the growing demand in SOFC segment. In emerging segment, the company is entering into high growth areas like 40:31 40 minutes, 31 seconds semiconductor through newly commissioned plant which uh manufactures components that go into wafer fiber equipment. 40:39 40 minutes, 39 seconds Products have been approved by key customers for CL production. Work is also underway to build capabilities in advanced electronic components through global major tech partners. 40:49 40 minutes, 49 seconds Additionally, the business is entering to AM and DBC active metal brace products and direct bonded copper products substrates and braced 40:58 40 minutes, 58 seconds assemblies for power electronics. A qualification program has been drawn and both these critical product segments and prototype development submission will be completed this year. 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds Um in the refractory business the growth will be based on both fired and monolithic uh business the fired refractory portion 41:18 41 minutes, 18 seconds of the business we are increasing the capacity by 75% additional capacity will focus on moonlight high aluminina and uh 41:27 41 minutes, 27 seconds IFB bricks PCFC shapes for application in glass petrocom super alloys and ceramics we are also progressing on our 41:35 41 minutes, 35 seconds plans to increase our monolithic capacities we'll gradually ramp up our capacity in composite business as well uh in carbon brakes, floor coating, advanced structural composites. 41:46 41 minutes, 46 seconds While we do this host of initiatives at the business, we are also done a good work in terms of the support functions. 41:53 41 minutes, 53 seconds Kim's manufacturing excellence program which works on integrated manufacturing excellence framework improvements in 42:00 42 minutes quality, cost delivery and operational efficiency across businesses. This program is delivered to internet cost savings in the first year through 42:08 42 minutes, 8 seconds automation. Digitally enabled Q accuracy and throughput improvement in KSS beyond savings in the MX focuses on 42:16 42 minutes, 16 seconds institutionalizing a culture of manufacturing excellence and the supportive manufacturing excellence academy which runs the program for both management and non-management staff. 42:27 42 minutes, 27 seconds The company is also strengthening sales capabilities through CRM implementation and the sales excellence academy which aim to drive more databacked approach to 42:36 42 minutes, 36 seconds sales. Digital initiatives are further enhancing the manufacturing u enhancing manufacturing and planning systems 42:43 42 minutes, 43 seconds including the rollout of manufacturing execution system mees across identified plans and implement the SNOP software. 42:52 42 minutes, 52 seconds Safety and sustainability remain central to the company's long-term strategy through a structured EHS excellence frame. The company is advancing its goal 43:01 43 minutes, 1 second goal to near zero emission, water positive duty and improved material circularity. FI 2030 targets include 43:09 43 minutes, 9 seconds increasing renewable energy use to 50% uh reducing emission intensity by 25% and lowering energy intensity energy 43:18 43 minutes, 18 seconds intensity by 20 20% in from FI 2025 levels progress is supported by rene 43:25 43 minutes, 25 seconds renewable energy adoption cleaner fuels waste heat recovery energy efficiency initiatives company has also made 43:32 43 minutes, 32 seconds significant progress in zero harm journey recording a substantial reduction in LTFR through risk management and behavioral safety programs. 43:44 43 minutes, 44 seconds People capability development remains uh a key enabler of growth under a program called phase to perform FAC to perform. 43:54 43 minutes, 54 seconds The framework consists of focus on the factory which is the first major initiative. Acquisition of talent, 44:01 44 minutes, 1 second rewarding carrier path, employee experience and development of talent. We aim to do a high performance organization. Leadership development 44:10 44 minutes, 10 seconds initiative include the next 100 programs or helping build a strong future ready talent pipeline. Alongside this, the 44:18 44 minutes, 18 seconds company is driving cultural transformation through defast behaviors, bold and timely decision making, embracing change with the solutiondriven 44:26 44 minutes, 26 seconds mindset, fairness to all stakeholders, accountability in decision making and standing up for each other. So I would 44:34 44 minutes, 34 seconds like to summarize that we continue to drive um um the focus execution across functions with multiple initiatives. 44:44 44 minutes, 44 seconds The proc progress achieved in the first year of execution is really giving us confidence. Uh we have delivered uh you 44:53 44 minutes, 53 seconds know the top line as well as the bottom line as per our internal targets and the progress from the functional level also 45:01 45 minutes, 1 second has gone well. So with this I would like to open up for um Q&A. I know it is a 45:08 45 minutes, 8 seconds long opening remark but I thought it is needed. would have a 45 minutes of uh the Q&A. 45:18 45 minutes, 18 seconds Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press R and 45:26 45 minutes, 26 seconds one on their dashstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press R and two. 45:34 45 minutes, 34 seconds Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. 45:38 45 minutes, 38 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question Q as symbols. 45:44 45 minutes, 44 seconds Participants, you may press star and one to ask the question. 45:52 45 minutes, 52 seconds The first question is from the line of Jonas Buddha from Adita Berla Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. 45:59 45 minutes, 59 seconds Uh good morning sir and thank you for the opportunity. Uh firstly you know just want to congratulate the management 46:06 46 minutes, 6 seconds and taking a timely decision on the dive of uh of uh I had two questions uh both 46:13 46 minutes, 13 seconds sort of relating to your high growth or emerging uh segments. Uh firstly if you 46:20 46 minutes, 20 seconds can touch upon uh the SOFC segment um there we've seen the client place some 46:28 46 minutes, 28 seconds uh very large orders on another vendor in India uh provides line of sight right 46:34 46 minutes, 34 seconds up till calendar year 29 and in fact uh 2030 as well. uh in your case if you can 46:41 46 minutes, 41 seconds give us the lay of the land in terms of how has that business for you grown you know what is your wallet share are you 46:49 46 minutes, 49 seconds one of the many vendors for those ceramic parts uh do you see any disruption in the technology that leads 46:56 46 minutes, 56 seconds to lower uh adoption of ceramics in that thing and you know uh can can this business 47:03 47 minutes, 3 seconds become like a 10 to 12% uh portion of your sales maybe 3 or 4 years down the line. 47:13 47 minutes, 13 seconds That's the first question. 47:16 47 minutes, 16 seconds Right. Thank you. I think uh so first of all uh uh we we feel that uh 47:25 47 minutes, 25 seconds we are very important shareholder of the uh the particular segment that we serve to the SOFC segment. 47:39 47 minutes, 39 seconds Um we believe that uh we have a vision at least going up to the next year and 47:48 47 minutes, 48 seconds there's a line of sight the management provides uh the customer provides going up to say 2028 like that 47:58 47 minutes, 58 seconds um and the customer also is growing well. So we have to build the capacities 48:07 48 minutes, 7 seconds using that as a as a as a clue plus the intermediary guideline that they always 48:14 48 minutes, 14 seconds give for the next one year. So this is how we are looking at and we feel that 48:21 48 minutes, 21 seconds uh given what uh the customer is embarked upon and the kind of growth that they are facing 48:30 48 minutes, 30 seconds uh we feel a very strong uh growth possibility in this segment and we have 48:36 48 minutes, 36 seconds grown well last year and we expect uh you know to grow well in the coming years as well 48:46 48 minutes, 46 seconds And what would your wallet share with the client be? 48:50 48 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah, we wouldn't like to share uh such details at this call. We have we as I said that we feel that we are an important uh supplier to the customers. 49:03 49 minutes, 3 seconds Sure. And any guidelines on how big can this business be 3 years out sir for you? 49:11 49 minutes, 11 seconds not a number but at least as a person can it be meaningful in terms of like greater than 10% it will be definitely it will be a 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds meaningful uh share that we will have and uh as we said that the engineer segment itself 49:27 49 minutes, 27 seconds uh you know is currently u is onethird of the business that substantially it 49:34 49 minutes, 34 seconds would grow up is our feeling understood thanks uh the second question was on the the new capex that you've 49:43 49 minutes, 43 seconds done for applied materials. If you can dwell a bit on what exactly will that help you get with uh you know for 49:51 49 minutes, 51 seconds applied materials where is this product used particularly and you know with a I think if I got the number right you did 50:00 50 minutes about 60 to 70 odd crores of capeex for that where does it take you is it predominantly first to get the first articles out and get the 50:08 50 minutes, 8 seconds pre-qualification and post which will require a further capex uh if you can give a timeline to that that's fine. uh 50:18 50 minutes, 18 seconds right we've crossed the qualification stage on set of products and this is an initial investment as I said we expect 50:26 50 minutes, 26 seconds that this investment could go uh at least three to four times higher and we 50:33 50 minutes, 33 seconds we are geared for that and uh we also expect the revenue potential also is substantial 50:41 50 minutes, 41 seconds uh from in this in this industry Got it. And I'll take this offline. 50:51 50 minutes, 51 seconds Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. 50:57 50 minutes, 57 seconds Next question is from the length of Harsh Patel from Equest Securities. Please go ahead. 51:03 51 minutes, 3 seconds Uh, hi sir. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Firstly on abbrasive uh China has removed the export rebate on 51:12 51 minutes, 12 seconds abbrrazing products from 9% to 0% effective from April onward. Has the domestic market pricing improved because 51:20 51 minutes, 20 seconds of this or uh we have been able to garner a little bit better market share in the last one or two. 51:29 51 minutes, 29 seconds Um so it's a very recent uh phenomenon at this point in time. Uh lot of people 51:38 51 minutes, 38 seconds will have uh inventory uh through the imported materials all that is happening but we believe that 51:48 51 minutes, 48 seconds this is good for the domestic industry and it will help us to grow. Um, of 51:54 51 minutes, 54 seconds course the growth in H2 is about 15% is very encouraging. Lot of that could be 52:01 52 minutes, 1 second due to uh, you know, this factor as well. But I think overall we see a rebound and our work in terms of all the 52:10 52 minutes, 10 seconds areas whether it is GTM initiatives, new products that we introduce, bringing cost down of our products, 52:19 52 minutes, 19 seconds all these uh combined effort of our uh you know strategy is uh playing out. I mean this we have been doing in over the 52:27 52 minutes, 27 seconds last 18 to 24 months is now playing out. 52:33 52 minutes, 33 seconds Understood. Just a follow up to that. Uh given that we posted such a strong growth in the fourth quarter, if you 52:41 52 minutes, 41 seconds could explain your growth in terms of how industrial market did, how precision did, how retail abrasives did and what 52:48 52 minutes, 48 seconds would be the outlook on these three subsegments going ahead. 52:54 52 minutes, 54 seconds I think I gave a broad outlook in terms of the segmental sales that what we are 53:02 53 minutes, 2 seconds looking at but we we feel that uh standalone uh we grew 6.2% this year 53:13 53 minutes, 13 seconds uh we believe that we can grow in the range of about 12% next year. 53:20 53 minutes, 20 seconds Understood. My uh second question is on uh standalone electro minerals. Uh what has been the contribution of volumes and 53:29 53 minutes, 29 seconds higher pricing in the 22% YI growth that we posted for fourth quarter and even 53:36 53 minutes, 36 seconds the fullear growth at 11% was reasonably healthy. Also you could comment on the Chinese import intensity whether it has 53:45 53 minutes, 45 seconds increased or decreased in recent times in that electrominerals business based out of India. 53:53 53 minutes, 53 seconds So the Chinese intensity continues to be there. There's no uh u kind of coming 54:00 54 minutes down of it. But we started focusing more on the treated products export segments 54:09 54 minutes, 9 seconds and that is the focus that we are looking at and uh that gave us this uh growth that we posted in the full year as well as in the Q4. 54:20 54 minutes, 20 seconds uh the predominant growth is come from volume where price is probably you can treat it as flat a slight some small 54:28 54 minutes, 28 seconds percentage understood sir thank you very much for answering my questions I'll come back in 54:37 54 minutes, 37 seconds right thank you thank you next question is from the line of Rabi Saminatan from Aendas Park 54:44 54 minutes, 44 seconds please go ahead hi sir thanks for taking my question my first question is with respect to the FI30 vision 2030 vision any revenue uh 54:55 54 minutes, 55 seconds target or growth target that we have and any margin target that we have for this 55:01 55 minutes, 1 second um uh Rish thank you for asking this question we have not been sharing a guidance we have 55:10 55 minutes, 10 seconds started sharing only a one-year guidance and also giving a programs that what we are looking at going for aspiration 2013 55:18 55 minutes, 18 seconds 30. Uh we believe that it would uh energize and bring the growth 55:25 55 minutes, 25 seconds substantially from now onwards and we have kind of addressed some of the issues that we are facing in terms 55:34 55 minutes, 34 seconds of loss making subsidies. So we should see a rebound. 55:40 55 minutes, 40 seconds Got it sir. And uh with respect to the c 55:42 55 minutes, 42 seconds the c the c the c the c the c the c the c the c the c the ceramics and refractories business if you can once again uh highlight you had mentioned numbers in terms of bifurcation between 55:50 55 minutes, 50 seconds uh ceramics and refractories if you can call it out once again uh and what kind of growth that we should think of in each of these individual subsegments if 55:58 55 minutes, 58 seconds you can give some um I think u I gave an elaborate one uh 56:06 56 minutes, 6 seconds but I'll just give a broad uh uh outlook to you is that uh we feel that 57%age of 56:14 56 minutes, 14 seconds the ceramic is uh the industrial ceramic and 43% is the refractory business. 56:22 56 minutes, 22 seconds uh the growth that uh we are looking at in terms of just a second. 56:38 56 minutes, 38 seconds Um the growth in um ne the growth overall in ceramic segment that we are 56:44 56 minutes, 44 seconds looking at uh this year we achieved 6.5% we expect next year would be in the 56:52 56 minutes, 52 seconds range of about 14%. Uh I'm not sharing the individual uh data of the refractory 56:58 56 minutes, 58 seconds and the industrial ceramics but they would broadly form part of around this range 14%. 57:07 57 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah, thanks a lot. Thank you. 57:10 57 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ahmed from PL Capital. Please go ahead. 57:19 57 minutes, 19 seconds Hi sir, thanks for taking my question. 57:21 57 minutes, 21 seconds Just wanted to understand um how has been the exports uh across the segments. I think you 57:28 57 minutes, 28 seconds mentioned something 11 33% I missed that. So it's uh possible for you to give us some color in terms of exports 57:36 57 minutes, 36 seconds within uh ceramics and uh abrasives and uh uh what is the kind of outlook there? 57:46 57 minutes, 46 seconds uh I shared the export share of uh electromineral business which I said that we have 57:55 57 minutes, 55 seconds reached a 33% share in the current business over 300 crores of export in 58:02 58 minutes, 2 seconds electro mineral business uh that's what I shared right so how has been the export in in 58:11 58 minutes, 11 seconds ceramics and abressive if we can get the breakup and what's the outlook there also ceramic uh is the biggest portion of the 58:20 58 minutes, 20 seconds ceramic over 80%age of the business is all uh exports and that is uh doing fine I mean 58:30 58 minutes, 30 seconds that basically whatever is the growth that I talked about on industrial ceramic predominantly comes from uh 58:37 58 minutes, 37 seconds those areas uh abrasives very small portion of the abrasive business is the export 58:46 58 minutes, 46 seconds uh it's less than 10% is export understood sir. So my second question on 58:54 58 minutes, 54 seconds on rodius I think you guided about 5% topline growth and kind of breakth even 59:00 59 minutes uh or some very small loss. So what exactly we're factoring in the growth 59:06 59 minutes, 6 seconds seems to be still uh kind of mid single digit but we are expecting uh the break 59:14 59 minutes, 14 seconds even. So what where exactly the improvements will happen and uh if you could elaborate more in terms of uh how 59:22 59 minutes, 22 seconds business volumes are happening in Rodius and what will lead to the uh turnaround this year. 59:29 59 minutes, 29 seconds So if you see the last year the big reason for the drop in 59:38 59 minutes, 38 seconds postings can you please mute please? Sorry I'm sorry sir. Yeah go ahead. 59:48 59 minutes, 48 seconds Right. Um last year we had uh uh almost 5 million euro impact in terms of the logistics change. 59:58 59 minutes, 58 seconds Um and that really affected the topline change and we feel that um they have 1:00:05 1 hour, 5 seconds been growing in the range of about 6 to 7%. And we feel that uh that growth should happen and um second is that 1:00:14 1 hour, 14 seconds because of this loss of sale as well as the u margin impact due to this loss of sale 1:00:23 1 hour, 23 seconds along with the logistics cost on the shift. these things would come down and hence we feel that we should get back to 1:00:32 1 hour, 32 seconds a small loss or a break even. The third reason is that we have also now uh work 1:00:39 1 hour, 39 seconds working on a a program with the broadest team in terms of how do we um accelerate the profitability as a special program. 1:00:48 1 hour, 48 seconds So these are the reason why we think that we should get here. 1:00:55 1 hour, 55 seconds Understood sir. Thank you. Thank you sir. Thank you. 1:01:01 1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshett Patel. Please go ahead. 1:01:11 1 hour, 1 minute, 11 seconds Harshett. Harsh. You may ask a question. 1:01:28 1 hour, 1 minute, 28 seconds There is no response on the line of Harshett Patel. 1:01:39 1 hour, 1 minute, 39 seconds The next question is from the line of Akshai Takur from Helios Capital Management. Please go ahead. 1:01:46 1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds Uh, hi sir. Thank you for such an elaborate call. Uh, so my question is specific to the Hello Can you hear me? 1:01:55 1 hour, 1 minute, 55 seconds Yes. Yes. We are here. 1:01:58 1 hour, 1 minute, 58 seconds Okay. So, uh my question is pertaining to uh pertaining to the stationary armor 1:02:04 1 hour, 2 minutes, 4 seconds in within your defense uh and also uh CFRP products for aerospace. So currently there is a lot of uh ecosystem 1:02:13 1 hour, 2 minutes, 13 seconds being de being developed for aerospace and for aeronautics and for this defense as well. Uh almost 100% of that would be 1:02:21 1 hour, 2 minutes, 21 seconds imported. So how how do you see this uh like in terms of commercialization where are we placed? Are the certifications 1:02:28 1 hour, 2 minutes, 28 seconds right? Are we negotiating with the uh OEMs or uh where are we placed on that? 1:02:36 1 hour, 2 minutes, 36 seconds So I think uh you kind of very clearly described this. So step one is to have 1:02:43 1 hour, 2 minutes, 43 seconds the certifications in place which we are uh definitely doing it. I described the 1:02:50 1 hour, 2 minutes, 50 seconds certifications that we already got. Um so pretty much we are uh in good shape 1:02:57 1 hour, 2 minutes, 57 seconds as far as certification is concerned. We are working with uh few uh anchor customers at this stage. 1:03:07 1 hour, 3 minutes, 7 seconds We also have uh uh the ability to work with them because they would be the front ending in terms of uh what they 1:03:16 1 hour, 3 minutes, 16 seconds would finally supply. we are only a product supplier to uh this case. So 1:03:22 1 hour, 3 minutes, 22 seconds hence this is how we are planning to move in this model. 1:03:28 1 hour, 3 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you sir that was helpful. Um my second question is uh so it's been long time that we are uh facing the war situation in uh in Russian subsidiary. 1:03:37 1 hour, 3 minutes, 37 seconds So uh like all this time where you like are we able to figure out any alternative strategy like India also 1:03:45 1 hour, 3 minutes, 45 seconds imports a lot of uh silicon carbide. So uh are there any alternative strategy? 1:03:50 1 hour, 3 minutes, 50 seconds If there is uh what type of lower realization would SIC get in other economies? 1:03:59 1 hour, 3 minutes, 59 seconds Uh honestly uh it's difficult to create a capacity 1:04:08 1 hour, 4 minutes, 8 seconds um and the cost would be you know pretty high uh so it's going to be very difficult to 1:04:16 1 hour, 4 minutes, 16 seconds recreate anything like that but at the same time uh Russia is not in a position 1:04:24 1 hour, 4 minutes, 24 seconds to export products which is what we are currently going Um 1:04:31 1 hour, 4 minutes, 31 seconds so practically we need to wait for the sanctions to be lifted. So which gives 1:04:37 1 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds us an ability to um uh you know go beyond Russia. 1:04:44 1 hour, 4 minutes, 44 seconds Um so at this stage we don't have a an alternate uh solution for this. 1:04:52 1 hour, 4 minutes, 52 seconds Uh thank you sir. One more question. Uh can you just throw some light on the subsidiary you have plus uh how is it doing? 1:05:01 1 hour, 5 minutes, 1 second Plus is doing fine in terms of profitability. 1:05:07 1 hour, 5 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah they made profit and they it's a very small profit they are doing fine. Okay. Thank thank you sir. 1:05:15 1 hour, 5 minutes, 15 seconds Yes. 1:05:16 1 hour, 5 minutes, 16 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chintan from Pico Capital Private Limited. Please go ahead. 1:05:24 1 hour, 5 minutes, 24 seconds S thank you so much for taking my question. Uh so sir one of the questions that I had was uh that as you said the ceramics business is around 80% exports 1:05:32 1 hour, 5 minutes, 32 seconds for us and uh most of our peers will be global and we spend a lot on R&D. So how how do you see our business and our R&D 1:05:40 1 hour, 5 minutes, 40 seconds evolve over the next few years and what are the key areas that we'll be focusing on? 1:05:47 1 hour, 5 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah, I think uh it's a great question. 1:05:51 1 hour, 5 minutes, 51 seconds We spend roughly about we spend roughly about 1% as R&D and I 1:05:59 1 hour, 5 minutes, 59 seconds think uh this needs to go up and we expect that we should at least start 1:06:05 1 hour, 6 minutes, 5 seconds spending 2 to 3% level. Um we are working in terms of strengthening our 1:06:13 1 hour, 6 minutes, 13 seconds R&D team across uh uh the individual BU and um we also strengthening the new 1:06:22 1 hour, 6 minutes, 22 seconds product development process coupled with uh you know software enabled process to so that we kind of make sure that we u 1:06:32 1 hour, 6 minutes, 32 seconds uh do the right thing in terms of new product getting the right input from the from the market customers and the users. 1:06:42 1 hour, 6 minutes, 42 seconds So all these factors are now being put part of this R&D uh process. So strengthening the R&D building the 1:06:50 1 hour, 6 minutes, 50 seconds capability putting process we need to accelerate the spend both in terms of uh capex as well as in terms of the opex. 1:07:02 1 hour, 7 minutes, 2 seconds All right sir and the second question I had was more on the ceramics side. Uh so basically uh a lot of applications in EV require ceramics. Uh so are we working 1:07:12 1 hour, 7 minutes, 12 seconds on any products or programs with any OEMs or tier ones where our ceramics are getting used on the EV space and how do 1:07:19 1 hour, 7 minutes, 19 seconds you see it evolving over the next 3 to 5 years basically? 1:07:23 1 hour, 7 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. Yes, we do work. I think this is part of the engineered ceramics that I described and that's why we feel uh 1:07:33 1 hour, 7 minutes, 33 seconds quite uh a beat in terms of that segment's growth. Um so we are working 1:07:40 1 hour, 7 minutes, 40 seconds with um uh tier one suppliers to OEMs that is how we our role would be and 1:07:47 1 hour, 7 minutes, 47 seconds that definitely we are doing that and how do you see it evolving maybe sir means would it be a substantial part of 1:07:55 1 hour, 7 minutes, 55 seconds our revenues what are the key focus areas if you could just elaborate on that. So engineered ceramics will be a 1:08:02 1 hour, 8 minutes, 2 seconds key focus area uh for us which would bring a substantial share of our business which consists of uh areas like 1:08:11 1 hour, 8 minutes, 11 seconds that what you talked about in terms of u uh sifc uh as well as um you know rings it also 1:08:21 1 hour, 8 minutes, 21 seconds consists of uh image intensified tubes all these uh products group would fall under that and We we feel that the 1:08:30 1 hour, 8 minutes, 30 seconds growth rate would be substantial and uh we also feel that the share of business will go up and that is how we are creating this capacity. We are also 1:08:39 1 hour, 8 minutes, 39 seconds trying to create uh as I said that um you know ceramic substrate capacity for 1:08:46 1 hour, 8 minutes, 46 seconds electronics is we are creating we are working on that technology transfer agreement is done now the capacity 1:08:53 1 hour, 8 minutes, 53 seconds augmentation would happen in FI27 on that all right sir thank you so much for taking my question 1:09:02 1 hour, 9 minutes, 2 seconds thank you the next question is from the line of priit Jan from Nves investment advisor please go ahead. 1:09:11 1 hour, 9 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you sir for taking my question. Congratulations on good set of numbers. 1:09:16 1 hour, 9 minutes, 16 seconds So my first question is on the semiconductor side. The semiconductor opportunity seems to be a massive long-term driver. So can you split 1:09:25 1 hour, 9 minutes, 25 seconds between structural ceramic for equipment and HS HPSIC for vapors and could you map out the current qualification cycle 1:09:34 1 hour, 9 minutes, 34 seconds timelines with global OEM and given the strict purity requirement when do you expect this segment to cross the 1:09:41 1 hour, 9 minutes, 41 seconds threshold into material revenue generation for us? 1:09:46 1 hour, 9 minutes, 46 seconds Well good lot of uh loaded uh comments and you're asking the right question. um 1:09:54 1 hour, 9 minutes, 54 seconds uh particularly on the this uh uh ceramic for the wafer fab equipment 1:10:02 1 hour, 10 minutes, 2 seconds in the case that where we have built the capacity the material qualification process is pretty long. It would take 1:10:09 1 hour, 10 minutes, 9 seconds about four to 6 years we have crossed that and that is how we have created the capacity at this stage. uh we have uh 1:10:18 1 hour, 10 minutes, 18 seconds you know samples uh tested now we are in the uh you know development phase is 1:10:26 1 hour, 10 minutes, 26 seconds completed and now we will start supplying to them the serial production will start um so you are right it takes long time 1:10:34 1 hour, 10 minutes, 34 seconds and that's how we took long time to get here uh we will now uh complete phase 1:10:40 1 hour, 10 minutes, 40 seconds one and then expand to phase two quickly and when can we expect material revenue generation from that 1:10:48 1 hour, 10 minutes, 48 seconds 2029 uh onwards we can expect 20. Yeah. 1:10:54 1 hour, 10 minutes, 54 seconds Okay. And my second question is given the massive power distribution and grid infrastructure capex happening 1:11:01 1 hour, 11 minutes, 1 second domestically how quickly we can dewater our current metalized cylinder capacity and furthermore are we seeing traction 1:11:08 1 hour, 11 minutes, 8 seconds in penetrating the export market to compete against Japanese player like Kio and NGK. Sure 1:11:17 1 hour, 11 minutes, 17 seconds we we have uh in fact our metallized cylinder the biggest portion is only exports. Uh so definitely we are 1:11:26 1 hour, 11 minutes, 26 seconds competing with the names that you are mentioning and uh we are doing it well and the expansion would happen in the 1:11:34 1 hour, 11 minutes, 34 seconds next 18 months 24 months in a phased manner. I mean that it consists of three phases but it would happen in that 1:11:41 1 hour, 11 minutes, 41 seconds fashion. So we do we have the capacity till 1 1.5 years next to supply this metal. 1:11:51 1 hour, 11 minutes, 51 seconds Yes. Yes. Definitely we have uh uh we are one of the you know number two worldwide player in this field and we 1:12:00 1 hour, 12 minutes feel that we have headroom plus we also creating the newer capacities in this 1:12:07 1 hour, 12 minutes, 7 seconds debart necking and creating the capacities. 1:12:11 1 hour, 12 minutes, 11 seconds Okay. And sir another question uh another question is uh you you are supplying to one of the largest SOFP 1:12:19 1 hour, 12 minutes, 19 seconds manufacturers in the world. So basically uh our current realization according to our revenue splits at 13 to 15 lakhs per 1:12:27 1 hour, 12 minutes, 27 seconds megawatt of deployed and given that SSP manufacturer has expanded its capacity from 1 gawatt to 2 gawatt. Can can I 1:12:35 1 hour, 12 minutes, 35 seconds know can I get to know what are the your revenue estimations regarding that SOFC 1:12:42 1 hour, 12 minutes, 42 seconds product and given that uh five year five to seven year replacement cycle of that SOFC cell can we also expect revenue 1:12:49 1 hour, 12 minutes, 49 seconds from the replacement demand um I think lot of that has got uh sub 1:12:59 1 hour, 12 minutes, 59 seconds elements of it you are getting headline information but we feel that uh uh 1:13:06 1 hour, 13 minutes, 6 seconds definitely the gaw of additions that uh each of them would add would definitely help us. Our 1:13:16 1 hour, 13 minutes, 16 seconds demand also would go up. Um as I said in the earlier question, we feel that the growth rate in this segment is going to 1:13:24 1 hour, 13 minutes, 24 seconds be substantially high. we are parallelly gearing up because we are also feeling that we need to work in terms of 1:13:32 1 hour, 13 minutes, 32 seconds creating this capacity uh ahead of time. So which is what uh we are working on this um I I think you are 1:13:42 1 hour, 13 minutes, 42 seconds right step one is to this growth would uh you know seem to be going up because 1:13:51 1 hour, 13 minutes, 51 seconds of the AI related data center demand etc. So definitely the it's a clear sign 1:13:59 1 hour, 13 minutes, 59 seconds of growth in that segment and SFC is a clear market leader in in a clean energy segment which definitely helps us quite a lot. 1:14:09 1 hour, 14 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. If time permits can I ask one more question? Yeah. Yes please. 1:14:15 1 hour, 14 minutes, 15 seconds B thank you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity sir. Basically, China has reduced its export rebate in April 2026 1:14:23 1 hour, 14 minutes, 23 seconds from 9 to 13% on their appraises product. So, are we are we seeing any current traction of aes sales growth 1:14:32 1 hour, 14 minutes, 32 seconds volume improving in uh current month or in last month due to this policy? 1:14:38 1 hour, 14 minutes, 38 seconds So, I I did uh comment on this uh pita little bit in the earlier question. I 1:14:45 1 hour, 14 minutes, 45 seconds think u it just happened uh you know we are in the month of May so it just a lot of inventory would be there in this uh 1:14:54 1 hour, 14 minutes, 54 seconds you know the system that should get uh you know also completed. I feel that definitely it is a good sign it it it 1:15:02 1 hour, 15 minutes, 2 seconds helps the domestic market to grow faster. Uh we have grown 15% in H2. 1:15:10 1 hour, 15 minutes, 10 seconds Okay. Okay sir. Thank you sir. Thank you. thinking. 1:15:17 1 hour, 15 minutes, 17 seconds The next question is from the line of Sel Kapoor from Antifragile Thinking. Please go ahead. 1:15:24 1 hour, 15 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Uh just a couple of questions on the R&D side of things uh in the business. um 1:15:32 1 hour, 15 minutes, 32 seconds what percentage of your uh recent R&D and innovation projects were uh deliberately stopped uh or pivoted or 1:15:42 1 hour, 15 minutes, 42 seconds you know redesigned because customer or market learning invalidated the original assumption. That's my first question. 1:15:52 1 hour, 15 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah, that's a great question. Um if I just quickly uh look around uh our R&D 1:16:00 1 hour, 16 minutes at 4B um I haven't uh um 1:16:09 1 hour, 16 minutes, 9 seconds experience any such program of that uh we stopped or um customers uh request change type of a situation. 1:16:20 1 hour, 16 minutes, 20 seconds Uh definitely not. But we have experienced cases where you know you you need to put a particular application but 1:16:28 1 hour, 16 minutes, 28 seconds you know you require some more work to make sure that the application um uh really is capable of using our 1:16:37 1 hour, 16 minutes, 37 seconds product that that type of thing happens. 1:16:44 1 hour, 16 minutes, 44 seconds No understood. Thank you. Uh so uh how will Kumi ensure its investments in um 1:16:52 1 hour, 16 minutes, 52 seconds silicon carbide, advanced ceramics and other high-tech materials uh become high roy scalable businesses rather than um 1:17:01 1 hour, 17 minutes, 1 second technologically strong but uh capital in inefficient platforms. 1:17:09 1 hour, 17 minutes, 9 seconds Uh I'm not sure I get your question. Why would you think it's a capital inefficient platform? 1:17:18 1 hour, 17 minutes, 18 seconds No. So I mean do you have internal benchmark that you know so we we are doing a lot of advanced R&D and in the annual reports um we we are almost 1:17:27 1 hour, 17 minutes, 27 seconds confidently saying that post 2030 and Kumi will be emerge as a very different looking businesses and business because 1:17:35 1 hour, 17 minutes, 35 seconds of the initiatives uh that we are doing across many things. So I can name uh maybe um ex most futuristic opportunity 1:17:44 1 hour, 17 minutes, 44 seconds to my mind is something like semiconductor link materials EV uh but even u things like um electro minerals 1:17:51 1 hour, 17 minutes, 51 seconds silicon carbide you know we have got most um strategic capability around that difficulty is also very high um so what 1:17:59 1 hour, 17 minutes, 59 seconds is the the kind of see ultimately from an investor perspective it's about you know this how scalable the business can be and what will be the steady state roy 1:18:08 1 hour, 18 minutes, 8 seconds it will generate that will determine uh the outcome will determine the the shareholder wealth creation. So I was coming from that perspective. 1:18:16 1 hour, 18 minutes, 16 seconds Sure. No, I think these are definitely looked at part of our threshold to evaluate any such opportunity. 1:18:26 1 hour, 18 minutes, 26 seconds uh clearly the dimension that you're looking at market size and opportunity 1:18:32 1 hour, 18 minutes, 32 seconds growth rate and u you know the the rosi that we would get in a steady state 1:18:39 1 hour, 18 minutes, 39 seconds um we feel that uh these areas that uh we just listed in terms of uh 1:18:47 1 hour, 18 minutes, 47 seconds ceramics for semiconductor ceramic for electronics um you know IP silicon carbide uh ceramics for aerospace and defense. 1:18:58 1 hour, 18 minutes, 58 seconds All these areas uh we feel that u uh are good areas to work on and invest and 1:19:06 1 hour, 19 minutes, 6 seconds that's how our programs are on. Um Kumi is capable of funding itself. Uh if you 1:19:13 1 hour, 19 minutes, 13 seconds really look at it uh we spent this year 310 crores plus capex uh and uh we have 1:19:21 1 hour, 19 minutes, 21 seconds zero depth net zero depth at this point and uh substantially very good uh FCF. 1:19:27 1 hour, 19 minutes, 27 seconds So we are uh able to fund these type of programs and kind of practically we think that we would spend uh 400 crores next year as well. 1:19:40 1 hour, 19 minutes, 40 seconds And the year before we did spend about 250 course plus no no uh helpful. Thank you so much. 1:19:48 1 hour, 19 minutes, 48 seconds That answers um all my questions. Thank you. Wish you all the best. Thank you. 1:19:54 1 hour, 19 minutes, 54 seconds Thank you Mr. Kapoor. The next question is from the line of Rajna Kukura from Sin Limited. Please go ahead. 1:20:02 1 hour, 20 minutes, 2 seconds Thanks for the opportunity. Uh sir, could you please help me understand the performance of our aggressive business 1:20:08 1 hour, 20 minutes, 8 seconds for our JVS like see the uh business for aggressive there is been declining in 1:20:16 1 hour, 20 minutes, 16 seconds terms of growth as well as segmental profit margins. If you could give some color on the V performance, it would be very helpful. 1:20:27 1 hour, 20 minutes, 27 seconds Hello. Yes. So madam uh so I am afraid I'll 1:20:35 1 hour, 20 minutes, 35 seconds if you comment on that this is another listed company. So uh I think uh I would encourage you to stay in touch with the 1:20:44 1 hour, 20 minutes, 44 seconds management they would be able to provide that. Um but I think uh the their 1:20:52 1 hour, 20 minutes, 52 seconds shortfalls are coming because of the machine uh building the segments and 1:20:58 1 hour, 20 minutes, 58 seconds super abrasive is doing fine. I would uh limit my conversation to this level. 1:21:07 1 hour, 21 minutes, 7 seconds Okay. Thank you. 1:21:10 1 hour, 21 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you. Thank you. We take the last question from Praesh Kocher from Four Line Capital. Please go ahead. 1:21:18 1 hour, 21 minutes, 18 seconds Hi, thank you for taking a question. 1:21:20 1 hour, 21 minutes, 20 seconds First one on uh ceramics. I think last call you mentioned we end up doing 13 14% growth in that segment. Um and then 1:21:27 1 hour, 21 minutes, 27 seconds the guide for next year also is at 15 to 15 and a half and we have ended the year at close to 9. So just want to understand if the you know what's the 1:21:36 1 hour, 21 minutes, 36 seconds gap between those two. Um second again on the ceramic SOFC side um do we supply 1:21:44 1 hour, 21 minutes, 44 seconds only the ceramic uh plates etc or are we also in the electrolytes for that particular business thank you 1:21:52 1 hour, 21 minutes, 52 seconds okay right two great questions but I think why did we miss I think that's the only area we missed our guideline um is 1:22:00 1 hour, 22 minutes largely because of deferred projects um which I think is substantially is the 1:22:07 1 hour, 22 minutes, 7 seconds oneline reason for uh why did we miss our guideline and why do we think that 1:22:13 1 hour, 22 minutes, 13 seconds we can make 15 is the backlog and the focus from our customer gives us that confidence. 1:22:23 1 hour, 22 minutes, 23 seconds Uh we are not currently into electrolytes uh uh but you're asking a 1:22:29 1 hour, 22 minutes, 29 seconds very uh deep question. uh we have the capability because of our electro mineral business we have the capability 1:22:37 1 hour, 22 minutes, 37 seconds of manufacturing electrolytes that's the technology we had worked with CGC and as 1:22:45 1 hour, 22 minutes, 45 seconds I mentioned we had a small pilot scale uh plant we established to manufacture that 1:22:54 1 hour, 22 minutes, 54 seconds uh which is what we just uh shared in the call as well uh so this is uh we have 1:23:02 1 hour, 23 minutes, 2 seconds small capability there. We need to now expand that. At this point in time, it's more a pilot scale. 1:23:10 1 hour, 23 minutes, 10 seconds And on the overall segment, my question was earlier we used to anticipate 16 to 18% kind of growth right in the ceramic 1:23:18 1 hour, 23 minutes, 18 seconds segment. So I was assuming because of the deferred projects, the next couple of years would be in that range, right? 1:23:25 1 hour, 23 minutes, 25 seconds Given this year some projects were deferred into next year. So just trying to understand if if structurally there's more competition that you're seeing or the overall market itself is kind of slowing down. 1:23:36 1 hour, 23 minutes, 36 seconds I I don't see I mean it's not because of structurally something is changing. I I 1:23:44 1 hour, 23 minutes, 44 seconds feel that it's more projects plus a lot of it would depend also on how we do 1:23:51 1 hour, 23 minutes, 51 seconds business in America in terms of uh the ceramic side of the business. So these are factors that we have kept in mind uh 1:24:00 1 hour, 24 minutes when I told the kind of 14 to 15%. 1:24:06 1 hour, 24 minutes, 6 seconds Understood. Thank you so much and all the best. Thank you. 1:24:10 1 hour, 24 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you. That was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. 1:24:19 1 hour, 24 minutes, 19 seconds Right. So uh first of all I thank you all for patiently hearing us. Uh but I just want to 1:24:28 1 hour, 24 minutes, 28 seconds summarize uh we have done fairly well in FI26. 1:24:33 1 hour, 24 minutes, 33 seconds We have addressed all the major issues in terms of uh loss making subseries. Uh 1:24:40 1 hour, 24 minutes, 40 seconds these alone contribute to a loss of over 100 crores to 120 crores. Um so the first uh year of our five-year journey 1:24:49 1 hour, 24 minutes, 49 seconds we've done fairly well. Kum has created a good base over the last 24 months for this aspiration. Kum has made a 1:24:57 1 hour, 24 minutes, 57 seconds significant capacity and capability investment in FI26. 1:25:02 1 hour, 25 minutes, 2 seconds If you see 3 years 280 crores 310 crores next year we would plan to spend about 1:25:09 1 hour, 25 minutes, 9 seconds 400 crores. That creates all of them are in capacity or capability building. So that would give a strong um uh future 1:25:19 1 hour, 25 minutes, 19 seconds revenue growth. Kumi has achieved a good free cash flow uh after meeting all capex investment. It's a good sign and Kim is net debt free. 1:25:30 1 hour, 25 minutes, 30 seconds Kimmy has drawn a good aspiration 2030 and it's well resourced both in capacity and capability. Has built a good strong 1:25:39 1 hour, 25 minutes, 39 seconds execution rhythm. Uh above all it has a good leadership and a strong team exhibiting 1:25:46 1 hour, 25 minutes, 46 seconds be fast behaviors which consists of bold and timely decision making embracing the change with solutiondriven mindset 1:25:54 1 hour, 25 minutes, 54 seconds fairness to all stakeholders accountability in decision making and execution and standing up for each 1:26:01 1 hour, 26 minutes, 1 second other. So thank you all for hearing us uh during this call. Look forward to uh 1:26:08 1 hour, 26 minutes, 8 seconds meeting you in the next call soon. Thank you. Bye. 1:26:12 1 hour, 26 minutes, 12 seconds Thank you so much, sir. With that, we'll conclude this conference call. Thank you for joining us. I will now disconnect your lines.