Camlin Fine Sciences Limited — Q3 FY26

Camlin Fine Sciences Ltd Q3 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHX7FXbn_5I Published: 3 months ago

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Camelin Finances Limited Q3 and 9 months FY26 earnings call hosted by Strategic Growth Advisers. 0:11 11 seconds This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. 0:20 20 seconds These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant 0:29 29 seconds lines will be in the listenon only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. 0:36 36 seconds Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touchstone phone. Please note that this 0:44 44 seconds conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rashi Tandeaker. Thank you and over to you sir. 0:53 53 seconds Thank you. Welcome ladies and gentlemen to this quarterly earnings call. Uh we know your time is precious so we'll get 1:00 1 minute right into it. Uh joining me is Nirmal Mumaya managing director and Santo Parab CFO. Uh Santosh will first give you 1:09 1 minute, 9 seconds highlights and numbers of the quarter after which both of them will answer your questions. 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds Thank you for being here Santosh. 1:20 1 minute, 20 seconds Thank you Ashish. Uh good evening everybody. I'll directly jump into the uh to the business. Uh yes, this this 1:29 1 minute, 29 seconds quarter has been a bit tipped. We had uh turnover of 572 crores. Uh we it was almost uh equal to 1:39 1 minute, 39 seconds what we did in the Q2. Uh but there is a 6% hike as when we compare it to the last uh corresponding quarter. uh we had 1:48 1 minute, 48 seconds been telling you that we'll be doing high amount of uh van sale we had done almost 700 odd tons in the uh last year 1:58 1 minute, 58 seconds which uh looking at the entire tariff scenario and other things we had control our sale 2:04 2 minutes, 4 seconds because we knew that this sales uh uh there is more than likely to have higher realizations because of the tariff as 2:13 2 minutes, 13 seconds you know we have been selling at an average price of 12.5 five uh uh especially in US because of the tariff 2:21 2 minutes, 21 seconds situation. Uh in this quarter we did 490 crores of sales to the third party. are 2:28 2 minutes, 28 seconds there in the in the internal channels uh that is uh uh with our subsidiaries in 2:35 2 minutes, 35 seconds India as well as in the financing distributors we have uh around 500 uh 2:44 2 minutes, 44 seconds 650 tons which out of which around 500 is committed till at uh uh 12 and a half 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds but the recent reduction of tariff to 25% We can have a benefit of that on the 3:00 3 minutes 400 t stock which we have in the uh some part of it will fall in the quarter one 3:07 3 minutes, 7 seconds the quarter four and then major portion will fall in uh quarter one from quarter 3:13 3 minutes, 13 seconds 1 the real benefit of this will will be appearing. So 1 million we deal 490 3:21 3 minutes, 21 seconds which is around uh tons which is around 55 crores with a realization price of 12 and a half. As far as trades the the 3:29 3 minutes, 29 seconds main ingredient business is there it has seen a fall in it. Uh uh it has come down to 80 crores from 87 primarily for 3:37 3 minutes, 37 seconds two reasons. one uh the prices have been going down and that's what is impacting our margins and as you know there are 3:47 3 minutes, 47 seconds local uh manufacturers who have come and there's intense competition in in India 3:54 3 minutes, 54 seconds itself plus this business uh has a very uh plateaued growth and hence there is 4:00 4 minutes an intense competition uh we had some bit of lower volumes also but the major portion was because dip in 4:08 4 minutes, 8 seconds realizations on states. As far as blends is concerned, we have been saying blends has been the hallmark of our business 4:15 4 minutes, 15 seconds and we have grown by around uh 11% corresponding quarter and almost 13% 4:22 4 minutes, 22 seconds this quarter. we uh clocked around 271 crores in in this quarter. Of course, this also was pushed by our recent 4:31 4 minutes, 31 seconds acquisition which happened in December one. The French company via listed company which contributed almost near to 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds 13 crores in this quarter and that has also helped to to grow the business. Uh blends remains on on track. It it it is 4:48 4 minutes, 48 seconds going to grow at a very high growth rate of what we have been saying as far as performance is concerned. These these as 4:55 4 minutes, 55 seconds we have been saying that the this is uh what dyphenol the other than aroma and the straits uh these are other chemicals 5:04 5 minutes, 4 seconds where there were always lower margins and it it remains plateaued. So in total the revenue was 457 crores. Uh coming to 5:14 5 minutes, 14 seconds the cost structure if you see employee cost we have been saying employee cost has been increasing because we are bracing for this feature. We have been 5:22 5 minutes, 22 seconds acquiring new uh uh geographies and companies all over the world and which requires people on the ground all across 5:30 5 minutes, 30 seconds who are experts to uh help us save. So the there are a lot of investment in employee cost which has been happening over last few quarters now almost we will be adding few people but not more. 5:42 5 minutes, 42 seconds So you can see the employee cost has been quite stable. The only increase is because of the acquisition which we did in MNI. So the salary also increased one 5:50 5 minutes, 50 seconds month infi and generally in the uh American and Latin American markets the like it it's like Diwali in Christmas. 6:00 6 minutes So there is some kind of statuto bonuses also paid. 6:05 6 minutes, 5 seconds As far as other expenses are coming expenses are concerned, they remain under control and we feel that they will remain in this range for for the uh for 6:14 6 minutes, 14 seconds the next quarter and will increase as the revenue grows. uh ibida coming to 6:21 6 minutes, 21 seconds the iida yes iida expectation of high because we had said that we'll be doing a higher number of on vaneline which we 6:31 6 minutes, 31 seconds have in a way controlled it to take the benefit of the tariff because if you'd have sold now we would have lo in any 6:38 6 minutes, 38 seconds case realize only 12 and a half delaying the sale into the subsequent quarters will help us to get two to three more 6:46 6 minutes, 46 seconds dollars per per kg in which is plain cash and entire ibida. So that that was a plan to do. You would have also 6:55 6 minutes, 55 seconds learned that we had disclosed that there was a fire incident uh last week uh last Saturday at our uh one of the blending 7:02 7 minutes, 2 seconds unit in Brazil. There was a massive fire uh at one of the machines which was being 7:10 7 minutes, 10 seconds commissioned and the fire was such uh of such extent that almost we have lost all the stock which was there in the it was along with the warehouse this this unit. 7:21 7 minutes, 21 seconds So however uh we have another unit also which is working and is operational 7:29 7 minutes, 29 seconds obviously we have to we will keep on uh continuing oper operation. Brazil was looking forward there was great tax 7:36 7 minutes, 36 seconds action and it remains very interesting orders uh on various blends as well as biodeiesel market which is a market in 7:44 7 minutes, 44 seconds Brazil. uh uh we have trying to provide raw material from our nearest 7:50 7 minutes, 50 seconds geographies and also from the local distributors. You want to keep the sale happening obviously uh with because we 7:59 7 minutes, 59 seconds are sort of buying on spot uh bit of margins will get impacted but we are 8:05 8 minutes, 5 seconds trying to keep the traction on sales keep our customer service honor all our our orders as far as uh today's 8:14 8 minutes, 14 seconds condition is concerned uh the survey is expected insurance survey is expected to start tomorrow at this moment we feel 8:21 8 minutes, 21 seconds that we are adequately insured uh uh the surveys generally take 3 to four weeks. 8:27 8 minutes, 27 seconds So there will be clarity on the surveys and other things. We are also using uh 8:34 8 minutes, 34 seconds uh tollers local tollers to also satisfy the manufacturing and servicing the customers. Uh at present the unit is 8:43 8 minutes, 43 seconds entirely closed. We don't think it will be immediately usable. We as the time passes we'll we'll see how to rebuild 8:50 8 minutes, 50 seconds it, where to rebuild it and other things. Uh you would have also uh read in our uh uh you uh results that uh we 9:00 9 minutes have filed for uh our statutory board auditors have already filed for a petition for liquidation of Europe uh 9:10 9 minutes, 10 seconds and actually the blends the continuing business of blends will continue though the entity will be closed because we'll be shifting that uh business to our 9:18 9 minutes, 18 seconds other other companies in Europe. We we are not worried about the revenue of continuing business but the good thing 9:25 9 minutes, 25 seconds is that uh uh the cash burn which has been happening will certainly stop going 9:31 9 minutes, 31 seconds forward. The plea with the court is scheduled on February 26. We'll have more clarity and as for the requirements 9:39 9 minutes, 39 seconds we'll keep you updated on on that. You would have seen that there were some few exceptional items also in in this 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds quarter. Um as we acquired VPI the the acquisition related cost the due diligent cost and other thing had to be 9:54 9 minutes, 54 seconds recognized which was around 3.69 69 crores uh which has been accounted uh 10:01 10 minutes, 1 second obviously the new labor code uh we had aligned our salaries much earlier so we 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds were very near to 50% and hence you could see that even though we have around 800 employees in India uh the 10:16 10 minutes, 16 seconds impact is not high and other aspect is that we have a very younger uh team 10:23 10 minutes, 23 seconds workforce uh hence there is partner is less we have provided for all uh uh uh 10:30 10 minutes, 30 seconds required uh under the statute what is to be provided already which is 2.25 cr. We have also provided for an advanced some 10:38 10 minutes, 38 seconds loan which was a very old loan which we had uh given uh 10:45 10 minutes, 45 seconds for some project which unfortunately we don't think uh accounting provision is 10:51 10 minutes, 51 seconds required but we will are will be trying to recover recover it. So sub subject to 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds that the the the part is uh has been impacted for that and we have also shown the discontinued business which is 11:06 11 minutes, 6 seconds mainly on account of uh uh Europe it's around 9 crores and some portion on 11:13 11 minutes, 13 seconds China. China is also on the verge of liquidation. We have filed the necessary documentations. We accept that it will 11:20 11 minutes, 20 seconds move uh the liquidation process will move by the before the end of this financial year. 11:27 11 minutes, 27 seconds uh going remaining here and going forward I we feel that uh banglin is the business and the good thing is that 20 11:35 11 minutes, 35 seconds it has already the duty has come down by 25%. and very in near future it will come down further more. Uh blends keeps 11:43 11 minutes, 43 seconds blends has been doing we have this inorganic acquisition of winpai which will certainly help us uh to grow our 11:51 11 minutes, 51 seconds business uh at winpai as well as those products we will be replicating and selling all over the world. So so the 11:59 11 minutes, 59 seconds blend business is going to keep on growing at an at the same pace as it it it was in the earlier period. 12:08 12 minutes, 8 seconds Uh now we open the uh forum for question. 12:14 12 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you very much. We will begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star 12:21 12 minutes, 21 seconds and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use 12:30 12 minutes, 30 seconds handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our 12:47 12 minutes, 47 seconds first question comes from the line of Rushikesh Sha from Alchemy Capital. Please go ahead. Yes. Hello. Yeah. Hi. Am I audible? 12:56 12 minutes, 56 seconds Yes sir, you are. Please go ahead. 12:58 12 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. Uh, so my first question is currently I have vanoline realization at $12, right? and you mentioned that they may increase by$2 to3. 13:08 13 minutes, 8 seconds So according to me let's say your realization in US is $18. If it your 13:14 13 minutes, 14 seconds tariffs move down by 25% then your realization so should increase by $6. So where is the disconnect in this? 13:25 13 minutes, 25 seconds So the price in uh US is around $189. That's correct. 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds Right. Right. But uh but what comes from India was being uh 50% duty has to be 13:38 13 minutes, 38 seconds paid. So to match the realizable value because there is a local manufacturer that's always selling at 18 who doesn't 13:46 13 minutes, 46 seconds have the duty. If we have to match the price of 18 we have to bear the duty. 13:52 13 minutes, 52 seconds Hence he used to transfer the material from here at $12 pay the 50% $6 duty which is cost to us and sell in the open 14:00 14 minutes market at $18. So that's why the realization was $12. Now if the duty becomes 25 we'll get that additional 14:09 14 minutes, 9 seconds duty which we are paying to the government will help us increase our realization. In another words, we'll be selling at around 14 14.5 pay the duty 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds at 25% which will match the local price of $18. 14:24 14 minutes, 24 seconds Okay, understood. And what is the volume guidance for FI27? 14:30 14 minutes, 30 seconds For FI27, um we have both missile van and ethile vanolin. And our guidance for FI27 is uh 14:39 14 minutes, 39 seconds between the two, the total would be 4,000 metric tons. 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds Okay, understood. And so uh I had one more question regarding when was the revenue for the full year for them? I 14:51 14 minutes, 51 seconds know we have consolidated from December onwards but just to get an idea 14:58 14 minutes, 58 seconds 12 12 million uh one 12 around 13 crores 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds was uh their monthly uh which was which has been consolidated but that turn has 15:11 15 minutes, 11 seconds been in the range of 12 and half 12 and a half crores on a monthly basis till 15:18 15 minutes, 18 seconds okay understood and sir margins down like two four 5% this quarter. So what do you think is a steady state margin 15:26 15 minutes, 26 seconds that we can expect after we have when uh vanalin realizations going up and your volumes also increasing on vanalin set. 15:35 15 minutes, 35 seconds So what are the kind of margins you expect gross margin as well as a better margins from next year onwards? 15:46 15 minutes, 46 seconds Sorry. Hello. 15:56 15 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah, one sec. Yeah. 16:00 16 minutes The gross margin as it said were impacted by the uh the states business as I said the realization have come down 16:07 16 minutes, 7 seconds uh almost the sale price of TBHQBH which is down by around $1. the cost remains 16:15 16 minutes, 15 seconds the same. So that has impacted us. So the ITA the gross margin which were 16:22 16 minutes, 22 seconds which were which have have come come down because of the sale price decrease decrease 16:32 16 minutes, 32 seconds it was 46% uh in 9 months quarter quarter two it has come down 16:43 16 minutes, 43 seconds as uh from 46% it has come down to 45.8% 8% in this this quarter on operating revenues and this is mainly because of 16:52 16 minutes, 52 seconds uh impact of sales and also the new acquisition of blend also will take time to settle. So there is a cost is there a 17:01 17 minutes, 1 second bit margin has got impacted uh uh also uh because of the uh mainly because of 17:08 17 minutes, 8 seconds straight and we have sold lesser amount of volume in this year which impacted 17:15 17 minutes, 15 seconds the fixed cost fixed cost uh on the value in business that's why the there 17:21 17 minutes, 21 seconds is a reduction of around 55 basis point on the uh IITA margin as compared to quarter 17:29 17 minutes, 29 seconds uh so it was 7.3 it came to 6.7 to answer your question on uh next year uh FI27 17:37 17 minutes, 37 seconds the gross margins should improve by at least couple of percent uh with higher realization of um of vanoline as well as 17:47 17 minutes, 47 seconds uh growth in the blends business which is also um uh depending on the product mix uh the there could be an improvement 17:54 17 minutes, 54 seconds in margin. So our our guidance is that we should improve the margin by uh 1 to 2%. Um it'll be in the range of 46 47%. 18:05 18 minutes, 5 seconds And uh IDIA margins based on uh the growth that we are projecting in Manlin and the blend business should improve 18:12 18 minutes, 12 seconds and go to uh uh you know to between 12 to 14%. 18:20 18 minutes, 20 seconds Okay. And sir, we already are at 46% right now. So, and you are saying we'll be at 46 to 47%. 18:28 18 minutes, 28 seconds So, yeah. So, it should be higher than that, right? 48 49 or something. We are at 45 right now. We are at 45. 18:37 18 minutes, 37 seconds So, we go to 47. Okay. Okay. Understood. Thanks a lot. 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds And sir, once again, EIT margins from 12 to 14%. 18:48 18 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. Understood. Thanks. Thanks a lot, sir. 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Satish Kumar from Incred Equity. Please go ahead. 18:58 18 minutes, 58 seconds Hi sir. So I just wanted to understand what is the duty right now in US? It is uh 25% or it is only 18%. 19:06 19 minutes, 6 seconds No it is 25%. Uh what is expected is once the trade deal is officially signed 19:13 19 minutes, 13 seconds and uh announced. Right now only fact sheets and some other documents have been shared by both sides. But once it is finalized it'll come down to 18%. 19:23 19 minutes, 23 seconds But today whatever has been cleared in in from India in US whether it is in bond or coming from from the ship uh the 19:32 19 minutes, 32 seconds duty is 25%. So uh the additional duty which was levied on 27th of August 2025 19:38 19 minutes, 38 seconds of 25% because of Russian oil that has been knocked out but the first uh uh increase to 25% on 1st of August 2025 19:48 19 minutes, 48 seconds still remains and that could come down after they signed the uh the treaty deal between India and US. 19:55 19 minutes, 55 seconds Okay, got it sir. Answer the second question was that you were saying that uh it uh we didn't do some sales so uh 20:04 20 minutes, 4 seconds this quarter of vaneline. So what was the quantity and of that? 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds So we'll say that we would have pushed and sold another 200 trucks. 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds We went slow and uh try to push it in the next quarter so that we we get the the duty benefit. So we would have made 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds around another 200 tons at 12 and a half. 20:30 20 minutes, 30 seconds Okay. Got it sir. And so so the next quarter our sales num van sales should be in the range of what sir? 20:39 20 minutes, 39 seconds Uh in volume. Yes sir. 20:42 20 minutes, 42 seconds Yeah. So uh what we are doing now is we are taking a campaign for ethile vinyl. 20:48 20 minutes, 48 seconds Uh starting at the uh next week we will start the production of ethile vanelin. 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds uh which uh we expect by March we should be able to produce uh another 300 tons 21:00 21 minutes or so and we produced another 300 tons of metals we should be in the region of 600 plus tons 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds to add to this uh we have a challenge stock of around 500 550 tons of that 150 21:15 21 minutes, 15 seconds is at $12 is already committed so and another additional 200 tons is 21:22 21 minutes, 22 seconds likely to manufactured and sold. Uh so you can just count that number. 21:28 21 minutes, 28 seconds Yeah. Okay. So so maybe around 700 tons kind of range right sir. 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds It should be between 600 and 71 because uh uh half the half the quarter is gone the Q4. 21:39 21 minutes, 39 seconds Right. Got it sir. Got it. Thanks sir. 21:45 21 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. Our next question 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds comes from the line of Surya Narendra from Philip Capital India Private Limited. Please go ahead. 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah, thanks for the opportunity sir. Uh first question is on the vanilla pricing. Sir uh it looks like that uh 22:06 22 minutes, 6 seconds both US as well as Europe pricing currently look similar uh during the tariff period. So in the post tariff 22:14 22 minutes, 14 seconds scenario if the US pricing is likely to see a rise so whether we should expect similarly in the Europe also. 22:22 22 minutes, 22 seconds No not in Europe. So Europe the anti-dumping duty on Chinese material is 131% whereas on in the US it's um 22:32 22 minutes, 32 seconds effectively with the tariff at about 265%. 22:36 22 minutes, 36 seconds So there is a difference uh that delta will remain. uh the DDP prices today in your US are $19.5 22:45 22 minutes, 45 seconds uh GDP whereas in Europe that is around $15. 22:51 22 minutes, 51 seconds Okay. And we will be will and our realization would be slightly lower than the uh the other party obviously. 23:00 23 minutes Yes. Right. 23:03 23 minutes, 3 seconds Uh and uh uh in US what is the price differential between the ethile and meth? 23:09 23 minutes, 9 seconds So typically the price difference is between $1 and a half to $2. Okay. In the US that's about $21 or so. 23:17 23 minutes, 17 seconds Okay. DDP. 23:19 23 minutes, 19 seconds Sure. And uh uh second question is on uh the Vinfi and Vita for uh integration and way forward if you can just talk 23:28 23 minutes, 28 seconds about it because uh uh this is a year of acquisition integration and uh some strategic plans about it uh people 23:37 23 minutes, 37 seconds addition all that. So next year uh going ahead how should you how should one really think about those two business 23:45 23 minutes, 45 seconds and uh that's contribution to the overall blend. 23:49 23 minutes, 49 seconds Yeah. So Vita for um as you know is in the animal feed um side of the business. 23:56 23 minutes, 56 seconds Um we've after our acquisition we've um got several registration now uh in for 24:04 24 minutes, 4 seconds several of our products in many countries. So the push uh on beta 4 is going to be in the coming year in FI27 24:12 24 minutes, 12 seconds is to uh scale up from um where we are uh currently um at roughly uh 12 to 13 24:21 24 minutes, 21 seconds million euros um uh top line to take it to about 17 to 18 million euro uh top 24:28 24 minutes, 28 seconds line in the next financial year. So we we're looking at at least a 40 50% growth there. We've launched the product 24:36 24 minutes, 36 seconds in um the US market in Mexico and uh in the next quarter we are launching it in the Brazilian market as well as uh we've launched the product in the Indian 24:44 24 minutes, 44 seconds market. So wherever our own sales um force is is operating we have launched these products. We are increasing our 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds reach uh to the other parts of the world through um various distributors and also some of them um some countries we are 25:01 25 minutes, 1 second yet in registration process. So all of that uh will kind of start opening out in FI27. 25:09 25 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. Uh and for VinPai the next one was on Vini. 25:14 25 minutes, 14 seconds Vini which is um doing about uh 10 about 11 million euros uh of of topline. Um uh 25:23 25 minutes, 23 seconds in FI27 we look at again scaling that up uh by at least 40 to 50%. We've got several businesses in different parts of 25:31 25 minutes, 31 seconds the world where um our products uh have been approved by customers. Here of course there's no registration but here 25:38 25 minutes, 38 seconds the uh approval process with customers um and uh we you know pushing hard to see if we you know can grow it even 25:46 25 minutes, 46 seconds faster than that. We've launched the product in India. We've launched uh the product in uh Mexico and Central America in Brazil. So wherever Gina sales 25:55 25 minutes, 55 seconds channels are there um we've started uh introducing these products. 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second Okay. Sure. Uh this is the next question is about the the the base business the 26:09 26 minutes, 9 seconds antioxidant business in ingredients. So that has been seeing a kind of a continued competition enhanced either 26:17 26 minutes, 17 seconds because of Indians or uh because of the Chinese. uh also the kind of a price pressure also that is a separate thing 26:24 26 minutes, 24 seconds along with the crude. So given that uh is it fair to believe that okay this is a kind of a uh this business is likely 26:32 26 minutes, 32 seconds to see a kind of a uh is a kind of a big something like that if that is a 26:39 26 minutes, 39 seconds continuing phenomena. So uh what is the utilization of the diaphragmating for next year? 26:48 26 minutes, 48 seconds So for dphenol plant uh for the next year u we are basically we calibrate the 26:55 26 minutes, 55 seconds the dphenol based on katakol um really it's not so much the hydrochinone it's more the catacol because hydrochinone even if we don't do 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds value addition we get with with the antioxidant business there are some opportunities in performance chemicals that we can do but the idea is to u at 27:13 27 minutes, 13 seconds this point of time we're saying the ephenol capacity we will run at similar as what we had uh in the current year 27:20 27 minutes, 20 seconds and uh there is enough outlay for us uh for for HQ um in in uh in the in the 27:28 27 minutes, 28 seconds coming year because we have some contracts that we have signed also so which will give us some u volumes for selling hydrochloron and catacle of course vinyl is the big outlet for us. 27:40 27 minutes, 40 seconds Okay, just to clarification I wanted sir on uh on this fire impact uh is it is it 27:48 27 minutes, 48 seconds uh or whether we are likely to see any kind of impact in the coming quarter although it is fully in place that is 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds one and secondly are we getting any out of the liquidation processor no sorry what was the first part I 28:02 28 minutes, 2 seconds couldn't use your voice bro okay so about any fire impact that we are likely to 28:08 28 minutes, 8 seconds see in the upcoming quarter for Brazil although it is fully insured. 28:14 28 minutes, 14 seconds Yes. So that's I mean that we will have to see uh how the insurance process goes. Um we're very difficult to predict right now whether there will be any 28:23 28 minutes, 23 seconds impact and if so what will be the impact um at this point of time uh it's in fact 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds the access to the the premises has not been allowed as yet by the fire department because because uh they want 28:37 28 minutes, 37 seconds to check the integrity of the structure and they don't want any other uh mishaps to happen. So very very early days to 28:44 28 minutes, 44 seconds say whether there will be an impact and if there will be an impact what that would be. 28:49 28 minutes, 49 seconds No, it is not only the kind of a fire loss, fire related loss, business loss subsequent in the subsequent period. 28:57 28 minutes, 57 seconds So in the business loss, not really. Uh we have the the blending unit which was our original blending unit. This was a unit two which was just commissioned 29:06 29 minutes, 6 seconds right now for looking at um uh the the expanding numbers that we had. So um and 29:14 29 minutes, 14 seconds in fact the the incident happened with a brand new equipment also because that site was just being started out. So uh in terms of manufacturing there is there will not be so much of an impact for us. 29:25 29 minutes, 25 seconds Uh if there is any shortfall because we have some new uh contracts that we are signing um uh so for which if there is a 29:33 29 minutes, 33 seconds shortfall in capacity we have contract manufacturing uh tie-ups in place. 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds Okay. um which which we'll be able to service. Um having said that um of course since the raw material uh was 29:46 29 minutes, 46 seconds destroyed we have to arrange for raw material immediately for servicing the business that we have on hand and that uh possibly can have some impact on 29:53 29 minutes, 53 seconds margin in Brazil for the short term for the you know for the next 1 month or so till material which is on uh water will reach um Brazil. I mean already there's 30:02 30 minutes, 2 seconds a lot of material which has been shipped out in anticipation of all these contracts. So that that should start hitting Brazil in the next 15 days. So 30:11 30 minutes, 11 seconds um there would be some some impact but we are trying to buy material locally and uh um of course it'll be more 30:19 30 minutes, 19 seconds expensive than what we would have supplied from India or or from Mexico. 30:23 30 minutes, 23 seconds Um but having said that it's only temporary for 1 month or so there will be an impact okay on the margin not on the top line top line will maintain 30:32 30 minutes, 32 seconds okay and uh any benefit that we are likely to see from the liquidation process 30:39 30 minutes, 39 seconds uh liquidation of uh euro euro cash yeah so so no in the the benefit is 30:46 30 minutes, 46 seconds really the cash bleed that was there and uh you know every quarter that we were um taking a hit. Uh once it goes into 30:55 30 minutes, 55 seconds official liquidation which uh by end of this month um the tribunal or the court will have to decide and if that is the 31:02 31 minutes, 2 seconds case um then of course uh the entity gets dissolved into a liquidation entity and of course no other impact then will come to us. 31:12 31 minutes, 12 seconds But any money realization out of the liquidation is not likely. 31:16 31 minutes, 16 seconds No unlikely unlikely at this point of time unlikely. 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds Sure sir. Yeah. Thank you sir. Wish you all the best. 31:25 31 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rahan from Coher and wealth. Please go ahead. 31:31 31 minutes, 31 seconds Hi, good evening. Thank you for taking my question. Am I audible to the management? Yes. Yes sir, you are. Please go ahead. Thank you. Uh just couple of questions. 31:40 31 minutes, 40 seconds What would be the margin profile at the bida level or gross level for uh Vini and the other acquisitions? 31:49 31 minutes, 49 seconds So VPI is really uh started as it was a stress asset. We have bought uh VPI uh 31:57 31 minutes, 57 seconds is just near break even on uh the break even should be at uh uh 15 crores they 32:04 32 minutes, 4 seconds have done 13 crores but they at present uh they are just below the break even margin but as as the business grows 32:12 32 minutes, 12 seconds they've been not able to sell because they have no much access to the market which we have given. So it will generally go as the boss said if it's a 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds 50% growth you can it will certainly start gaining the margins but at this this point uh uh it's it's almost uh 32:28 32 minutes, 28 seconds ebid delegated uh for for a month uh whitafur is already broke even as and 32:34 32 minutes, 34 seconds has been making small uh four to 5% uh 10 to 12% and I think it will go as the 32:43 32 minutes, 43 seconds uh grow as it uh as start increasing the business. 32:50 32 minutes, 50 seconds Understood. And if you could just quantify the uh expense for VPA acquisition, I think you mentioned about 3 to four crores on employee expense. Uh 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds on the other expense front, we've seen a sharp jump of about 10 to 15 crores on a yearly bas yearon-year basis. So, and you mentioned I think it is sustained. 33:07 33 minutes, 7 seconds Any reason for such a sharp jump we're seeing or is it only a one time because of the acquisition? So it's better to to 33:14 33 minutes, 14 seconds understand the vinpi acquisition it's better to compare it with uh last quarter the increase in other expenses 33:22 33 minutes, 22 seconds are predominantly because of uh winpai for a month. So uh naturally going 33:29 33 minutes, 29 seconds forward vin had an generally an operating cost of around three three and a half crores three and a half to four 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds crores uh on a monthly basis. So that that that will come uh that will be an increase in the next quarter. Similarly 33:45 33 minutes, 45 seconds there is around uh vi's uh labor cost is also around one uh employee cost is 33:52 33 minutes, 52 seconds around one 1.5 to2 crores per month. So that that also will will increase. As 33:58 33 minutes, 58 seconds far as other excuses from other other businesses are concerned, we don't think there will be a increase. uh obviously 34:07 34 minutes, 7 seconds that there there's a Brazil impact if it comes that there could be some expenditure on that but we don't think the other business are going to increase 34:14 34 minutes, 14 seconds but in the next quarter obviously my uh other expenses employee cost will increase because the entire 3 months it 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds will come from with banks but that would be proportionately with the sales as well right this quarter was only I think 30 days 34:31 34 minutes, 31 seconds yeah so it's a 30-day 12 course uh uh the run rate is already 12 and a half crores when they were under stress. Now 34:40 34 minutes, 40 seconds we have come we'll be certainly improving the business but looking at this coming quarter three it's a very short period in 3 months you cannot but 34:47 34 minutes, 47 seconds I we think that we will do uh we'll keep maintain that run rate for the balance here 34:55 34 minutes, 55 seconds understood answer just the question on vanoline you have about 400 crores of stock you mentioned 35:02 35 minutes, 2 seconds 400 metric not 400 cr 400 metric tons 35:08 35 minutes, 8 seconds and um I last call we were gauging that we would see some kind of channel inventory easing off. Are you seeing that happening or are we still seeing a 35:16 35 minutes, 16 seconds stuck channel for the channel stock? Um sorry what was 35:25 35 minutes, 25 seconds your question? Um I think last quarter when you had the conference call and the quarter before that as well you were seeing buildup of inventory because of 35:34 35 minutes, 34 seconds the ADD and you gauge that it would take couple of quarters before you know you have a better insight as to how your demand scenario is going to pan out. 35:43 35 minutes, 43 seconds Has there been liquid and consistently you guys have also been scaled which is extremely great in a tough time but are 35:50 35 minutes, 50 seconds you seeing a possibility for better tonnage going forward? I know you've given a guidance of 4,000 but I want to understand can we see European pricing move up to probably 14 $15. 36:02 36 minutes, 2 seconds No pricing will not move up. Pricing will remain in that region because the anti-dumping duty effectively makes the 36:09 36 minutes, 9 seconds a Chinese product come in at $15. So you um that's um at DDP level. So which 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds means at a net level it's about $13. So we believe that uh the prices in Europe will not go up. It's only in the US 36:23 36 minutes, 23 seconds where the tariff difference uh of 25% our margin will improve and in terms of uh channel stocks they are being 36:31 36 minutes, 31 seconds liquidated. So that's the reason why you know we think that we'll be able to scale up uh our sales from around 2 and 36:39 36 minutes, 39 seconds a half thousand tons this year 2,300 2,400 to about 4,000 in the next year. 36:45 36 minutes, 45 seconds Understood. And uh if I can just squeeze in one last question. Sandu gi could you just reexlain that provisional for 11 cross that we've taken for this quarter. 36:56 36 minutes, 56 seconds Uh oh no the the exceptional item. 36:59 36 minutes, 59 seconds Yes I think there was 11 the PDD of 11 112 crores. 37:04 37 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah the pro. 37:06 37 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah yeah yeah. So there are uh there are three components acquisition related called labor cost and we have also made 37:13 37 minutes, 13 seconds a provision for a doubtful advanc loan which was given uh five to six years back that was for 37:20 37 minutes, 20 seconds uh anticipating a project uh the project didn't uh happen and hence now because 37:28 37 minutes, 28 seconds five years are gone this is an accounting adjustment we will be taking other actions to recover that. 37:34 37 minutes, 34 seconds Understood. Thank you. 37:39 37 minutes, 39 seconds Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. Our next question 37:46 37 minutes, 46 seconds comes from the line of Rohan Advant from Pra Capital. Please go ahead. Yes sir. Thanks for the opportunity sir. 37:53 37 minutes, 53 seconds What was the paneling tage in the first 9 months of FI26? First first 9 months. 38:01 38 minutes, 1 second Yes. 740 metric tons. 38:08 38 minutes, 8 seconds Okay. Okay. And sir, uh next year we plan to do $4,000 uh tons and even if we 38:15 38 minutes, 15 seconds realize say $14 on an average that is revenue of 500 crores. Uh in your 38:22 38 minutes, 22 seconds comment on margins there you said the mar gross margin should be at uh 46 47%. 38:30 38 minutes, 30 seconds With vanoline scaling up and realizations improving, shouldn't it add more to our margins or will the blends 38:37 38 minutes, 37 seconds business face margin pressure and that's why the margin improvement is likely to be lower? 38:45 38 minutes, 45 seconds So the gross margin in the blends business typically is less than 45%. And we're going to grow the blends business 38:52 38 minutes, 52 seconds by at least 20 to 25% next year. On a base of,000 crores we are looking at at least 13 to 1350 crores. uh in the next 39:00 39 minutes year. So that's why we are saying overall margin will average out at this price at this level. 39:06 39 minutes, 6 seconds Oh okay. So your revenue growth is should be much higher because vanoline will grow significantly and also the blends business. 39:13 39 minutes, 13 seconds Correct. Correct. That is the assumption. Yeah. 39:16 39 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. And sir on this 4,000 tons of uh you know guidance that you have for FI27 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds uh are you already have you uh you know committed take or you are waiting for 39:31 39 minutes, 31 seconds spot prices to maybe improve and get higher realizations? How are you looking at that offtake? And how confident are you of 4,000 tons? 39:41 39 minutes, 41 seconds So I mean in in this environment we've we've done 2,400 um so with with a large amount of um 39:50 39 minutes, 50 seconds channel stock lying pre- anti-dumping duty in anticipation uh there. So our assessment is that the market will open 39:58 39 minutes, 58 seconds up. um we are not rushing in for any contracts because even uh customers are looking at quarterly contracts as opposed to longer ones because they 40:06 40 minutes, 6 seconds don't know how long this uh uh channel stocks will remain. So I think um our 40:13 40 minutes, 13 seconds our sense and our u uh estimation comes from the fact that given all the adverse 40:19 40 minutes, 19 seconds situations that were uh in in FI26 um with channel stocks being uh emptied 40:27 40 minutes, 27 seconds out uh to grow it by about 50 60% from where we were is is very likely. 40:38 40 minutes, 38 seconds Understood. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. 40:42 40 minutes, 42 seconds Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Nirjman Singha from White Pine Investment Management Private Limited. Please go ahead. 40:50 40 minutes, 50 seconds So just wanted to clarify uh if uh right now the prices in the US is $19 40:58 40 minutes, 58 seconds and uh if we have a 25% tariff, we'll get a realization of uh $15. Is it right? 41:06 41 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah about 14 and a half or so because there is also local local freight and things this is duty pay 41:13 41 minutes, 13 seconds and if the if the tariff goes to 18% our realization uh would be 15 and a half or so right 41:20 41 minutes, 20 seconds correct correct correct and and and this does not uh and there can be uh so and you said that the 41:29 41 minutes, 29 seconds potential of price increase in Europe is lesser than US because US has much higher tariff and it's not adjusted to 41:37 41 minutes, 37 seconds that level the jumping duty and uh is it right that US is 19 and if 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds you assume a 265% it comes to $23 plus 41:51 41 minutes, 51 seconds if I assume uh I'm just assuming $65 in China in China $65 will come to $23 that is 42:00 42 minutes right okay so there is still uh there's still $4 upside in the price of vanoline if 42:07 42 minutes, 7 seconds there's a parasu the way the Europe is trading. Okay. Yeah. 42:11 42 minutes, 11 seconds And and sir uh if if the tariff is the detail is signed today. 42:18 42 minutes, 18 seconds So then your realization will go up immediately. Right. Correct. 42:23 42 minutes, 23 seconds Okay. Then why are you saying that we'll be realizing less value for next year? 42:29 42 minutes, 29 seconds Uh because uh there's a very high possibility of that being signed also, right? 42:34 42 minutes, 34 seconds Yes. Yes. Of course. But till it is signed, it is not signed. We were waiting for this uh reduction of from 50 to 25 for the last 6 months. So I mean I 42:43 42 minutes, 43 seconds can't predict that. No. So at 25% and work on that basically. 42:49 42 minutes, 49 seconds So and on these stocks please I I could not follow a very apology for that. You have 400 uh sorry you have you have a guidance of 700 tons for Q4. Am I right? 43:00 43 minutes Correct. Correct. And uh and of that 700 tons, how much will be at the uh 15 uh sorry 14.5 dollars if the and how much would be at the the 12 and a half? 43:12 43 minutes, 12 seconds So uh I would say the US will have out of 700 tons about 350 to 400 tons will be in the US which will be at a higher 43:20 43 minutes, 20 seconds realization and Europe is is at the same realization. 43:24 43 minutes, 24 seconds Europe stabilization means 15 $14 and half dollars 12 no 125 what we getting 43:32 43 minutes, 32 seconds okay and and what what about uh so okay so and and and is it right to assume the 43:39 43 minutes, 39 seconds similar ratio would be there for fi 27 for entire 4,000 tons yeah it'll be uh 60% in the US and 40% 43:49 43 minutes, 49 seconds in Europe okay got it and sir how much was Brazilian value of the stock that you were carrying which got fired. 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds The stock value was about uh 20 24 crores 16 million VI. So how much was that in rupees? 44:08 44 minutes, 8 seconds Okay. 16 million VI. Okay. And uh million 16 crores roughly. Yeah. 44:15 44 minutes, 15 seconds 16 crores. And and uh Okay. And uh this was on this uh Yeah. So and what is the 44:23 44 minutes, 23 seconds guidance on the the new plant of the competition starting in the van? Can you give some color on that? 44:29 44 minutes, 29 seconds Um not the the I think the US plant was supposed to start for the van. I wanted to know on that. 44:36 44 minutes, 36 seconds Uh the yeah in Europe actually the European plant. 44:40 44 minutes, 40 seconds Uh yeah. So that that yeah so that uh of course that will start now soon and uh 44:47 44 minutes, 47 seconds so the total market as we've said earlier that between Europe and US is about 16,000 tons and the two plants in 44:55 44 minutes, 55 seconds US and Europe put together have a capacity of 10. So there's a gap of 6,000 tons which needs to be filled uh 45:03 45 minutes, 3 seconds which um we expect that hopefully we should be able to fill at least 80% of that. 45:11 45 minutes, 11 seconds Got it. So before before Yes, sorry to interject. I'll just correct the numbers because uh on the Brazilian loss by fire 45:20 45 minutes, 20 seconds total loss at the book value is at 33 crores. Out of out of that 28 crores is 45:27 45 minutes, 27 seconds uh inventory. Uh he told 16 million that is Brazilian ri. Indian rupee is 28 45:35 45 minutes, 35 seconds crores and around 4 and a half crores of uh uh machine and equipment. So it's total 30 32.7 crores. Right. Got it. So 45:44 45 minutes, 44 seconds if there's a delay in the insurance then you'll is it possible you'll write off next quarter and write back whenever you recover get that amount. 45:53 45 minutes, 53 seconds That's an accounting thing. What how how the insurance companies look at look at it. uh we are confident when you know how the insurance companies if there are 46:01 46 minutes, 1 second cuts and things if the insurance claim is finalized and there is no dispute we may end up uh recognizing that shortfall 46:09 46 minutes, 9 seconds in the next quarter but it's not not at all determinable at this stage because they the surveyors are not even entered 46:17 46 minutes, 17 seconds the that factory cycle got it sir and sir just I think you said about the channel stock do you have a cl 46:26 46 minutes, 26 seconds any clarity on because the US pricing will only go up to 23 once the channel stock is totally liquidated. So any color on that side? 46:33 46 minutes, 33 seconds No, I think it is more driven by what our competitor um in US does in terms of pricing. So 46:42 46 minutes, 42 seconds uh we we since they are the leaders there and they define the price we just follow. 46:49 46 minutes, 49 seconds So in that sense uh the price will be really defined by them. Currently this is the price that they've defined and uh as as the channel stocks do come down 46:58 46 minutes, 58 seconds they will probably increase it by a dollar or so I don't think they will take it to match it to u the anti-dumping duty impact they'll keep it 47:07 47 minutes, 7 seconds just below that understand so last question on the uh China and the Europe cost which were for 47:14 47 minutes, 14 seconds the factories which were shut down what is it what was the run rate last quarters and what will be the current rate in say Q1 of next Yeah. 47:23 47 minutes, 23 seconds So in Q1 of next year as as I mentioned earlier we'll be in um by end of this month there will be uh a ruling on the 47:31 47 minutes, 31 seconds liquidation and if it goes into liquidation then there is no um impact uh to us on our uh on our balance 47:40 47 minutes, 40 seconds sheet on a running cost basis and even China is the same by end of this quarter that will also go into uh liquidation or 47:47 47 minutes, 47 seconds winding up. So our estimate is next year we should not have um any significant impact. 47:55 47 minutes, 55 seconds And for what was the expect for Q3? 47:58 47 minutes, 58 seconds So Q3 was 8 crores on discontinued business of uh Europe and a and a cr 48:04 48 minutes, 4 seconds rupees on a quarter of China. both of these uh if it uh the plea for 48:11 48 minutes, 11 seconds liquidation is expected accepted then prora will will not have any cost uh from February on uh euro because it 48:21 48 minutes, 21 seconds instead go into liquidation as far as uh China is concerned there is a different process so uh we may have to bear uh 1 48:29 48 minutes, 29 seconds cr uh expenditure in in the coming quarter and maybe another cr in the uh in the next quarter. 48:38 48 minutes, 38 seconds So after after Q2 Q3 of 27 your cost will become zero. Which cost run rate is today? 48:46 48 minutes, 46 seconds In this this this year itself in the next quarter uh China 48:54 48 minutes, 54 seconds uh Europe the hearing with the tribunal or the court is on February 26. Once the plea 49:01 49 minutes, 1 second is accepted and given then the bleed stops immediately because liquidation then it goes to the liquidator liquidator becomes the operator of the 49:09 49 minutes, 9 seconds company where out. So if it doesn't happen uh courts may take their own time a few months it's so it's very fast but 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds they may take few months in that case the control remains with us and we may face that cash bid of 78 crores next 49:26 49 minutes, 26 seconds next quarter also on Europe. China has a 1 cr run rate of bleed uh because we had 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds to keep some people there to look after the proceedings of uh uh liquidation. We 49:40 49 minutes, 40 seconds may end up a cr rupees of bleed for two more quarters. 49:46 49 minutes, 46 seconds Got it. So, so our run rate after this goes down the China and the Europe the IITA will improve by uh 9 crores per quarter. 49:57 49 minutes, 57 seconds Excellent. At at present at present this bleed is not shown in operational it's shown as a discontinu 50:06 50 minutes, 6 seconds I don't know I know it's more of a cash bleed so how you react IDA is if it is net of that then there's no impact on 50:13 50 minutes, 13 seconds G sir great thank you thank you very much for the information thank you our next question comes from 50:22 50 minutes, 22 seconds the line of Chaita Dhi from Incred Capital please go ahead Hello. Uh, thank you sir for being my 50:30 50 minutes, 30 seconds question. Uh, sir, just couple of questions. So, have we got Sir, can you speak a little louder? Hello. Is it audible now? 50:38 50 minutes, 38 seconds Uh, yes sir, please go ahead. Hello. Is it audible now? Yes. Yes, sir. Please go ahead. 50:43 50 minutes, 43 seconds Yeah. So, have we got FSS AI approval for Essential 4001? 50:52 50 minutes, 52 seconds Hello. Sorry. 4001. Hello. Yes. 50:59 50 minutes, 59 seconds Uh, have you got FFS AI approval? No, we for it. 51:07 51 minutes, 7 seconds Okay. And uh, what is the status of selling wind in Indian market? 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah. So, there is a potential. So, we working on that. Okay. Okay. 51:19 51 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. So, it's basically the market is is large. I mean the cheese market is growing in India and Vinc is uh a product which goes into manufacturing cheese. 51:29 51 minutes, 29 seconds Um and so the process is of course um these are 51:36 51 minutes, 36 seconds all processing aids. So most uh producers don't really need to um uh uh 51:44 51 minutes, 44 seconds get FSAI because we are FSCI approved but the product doesn't need to be because it's not part of labeling. So that's a question of interpretation. So 51:51 51 minutes, 51 seconds I mean that's something that is in the pipeline. 51:54 51 minutes, 54 seconds Okay. Okay. And sir uh so what would be the overall take on vanoline sales for FI27 guidance and what would be your value growth? 52:04 52 minutes, 4 seconds No we've already given that no okay and guidance for blends for blends also we've given that 25% growth over FI26. 52:16 52 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. Thank you sir. Yeah. 52:20 52 minutes, 20 seconds Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shikhar Mundra from Vio Commercial Limited. Please go ahead. 52:27 52 minutes, 27 seconds Uh for a company as a whole uh what kind of revenue guidance are we targeting uh giving for the next couple of years 27 and 28? 52:37 52 minutes, 37 seconds So 27 we should be uh looking at about 2200. 2200. Okay. 52:45 52 minutes, 45 seconds Yeah. 52:46 52 minutes, 46 seconds Okay. And for 28 that that would be about 2400. 52:53 52 minutes, 53 seconds And uh and it's considered as of now. Sorry. 53:01 53 minutes, 1 second Considering similar prices as of uh 2200 is considering similar prices as now of the products. Yes. 53:07 53 minutes, 7 seconds Okay. And and what kind of capex are we looking to put in for the next couple of years? 53:13 53 minutes, 13 seconds So, so at present no new new plants. There is a maintenance capex which keeps on coming because of the big plants which 53:20 53 minutes, 20 seconds we have. So we have a capex maintenance capex of around 40 to 50 crores on an 53:27 53 minutes, 27 seconds annual basis. But at this moment we we we have not any capex plan approved or otherwise. 53:34 53 minutes, 34 seconds Okay. So so the the kind of debt levels we have so these are kind of peak debt levels. 53:40 53 minutes, 40 seconds uh we may require if if I'm going to increase my revenues uh uh uh there will be the working capital fine I I meant the 53:49 53 minutes, 49 seconds long-term borrowings so these these are nothing on cards nothing on cards the the these are being repaid and they will go on as around 40 40 to 50 cr which is 53:58 53 minutes, 58 seconds repaid every year yeah got it so I mean I want to understand for uh as a company as a 54:06 54 minutes, 6 seconds whole there are so many moving parts you know there's vanoline then there are blend So if the vaneline prices rise, the blend prices are falling. So I mean 54:14 54 minutes, 14 seconds something or the other is pulling our performance you know down. So how how should we look at it? I mean very difficult to answer that question. 54:26 54 minutes, 26 seconds Our blend prices are not falling. Our margins in the blends are are quite stable. Uh gross margins are not falling. It's only in the straits 54:34 54 minutes, 34 seconds business which is the TBHQ BHA business where the margins have are are have fallen in this year. 54:42 54 minutes, 42 seconds And the gross margin remains uh stable. 54:48 54 minutes, 48 seconds Got it. Got it. Got it. Thank you. Thank you and all the best. 54:52 54 minutes, 52 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Due to time constraints, we take that as the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. 55:04 55 minutes, 4 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, yeah, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for participating in this conference call. 55:10 55 minutes, 10 seconds Uh we look forward to interacting with you at the next end of next of this quarter. Until then, good day. Good evening. 55:19 55 minutes, 19 seconds Thank you. On behalf of Camelin Fine Sciences Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. 55:26 55 minutes, 26 seconds And you may now disconnect your lines.