Billionbrains Garage Ventures Ltd — Q4 FY26

Billionbrains Garage Ventures Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3XKEZgI1TU Published: 3 weeks ago

0:01 1 second Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. 0:03 3 seconds Welcome to Billion Brains Garage Ventures Limited or Grow Q4 FI26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, 0:11 11 seconds all buyers spin lines will be in the listenon mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the management's remark. Please note that this call is being recorded. 0:22 22 seconds Additionally, please note that this earnings call is scheduled for a duration of 45 minutes. If you wish to 0:29 29 seconds ask a question, please use the raise hand feature available on your Zoom dashboard. We will announce your name on the call and unmute your line. Post 0:38 38 seconds which you can proceed with your questions. For today's call from the management, we have Mr. Lalit Keshre, 0:45 45 seconds co-founder and CEO. Mr. Hen, co-founder and COO. Mr. Nat Singh, co-founder and 0:53 53 seconds CTO. Mr. Ishan Buner, co-founder and CFO. Mr. Laled Bimmani Group head 1:00 1 minute finance. Mr. Kunal Raj Singh Chabra head investor relations. I now hand the call over to Kunal. Thank you and over to you sir. 1:10 1 minute, 10 seconds Thank you Michelle. Uh good evening everyone and welcome to the call. Our results and shareholders letter have 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds been published on the exchanges as well as uploaded on the company's IR website. 1:22 1 minute, 22 seconds Before we begin, I would like to remind all the attendees that some statements or comments made on the call today by 1:30 1 minute, 30 seconds the management may reflect the outlook or can be deemed as forward-looking and hence may involve certain risks and 1:39 1 minute, 39 seconds are not subject to any review. Such statements of comments are not guarantees of future performance and the 1:47 1 minute, 47 seconds actual results may differ. With that, I would like to invite Lis for opening remarks. 1:55 1 minute, 55 seconds Thank you, Punal. Uh hello everyone. Uh and welcome to the earnings call. Uh this is uh this is our third call after 2:05 2 minutes, 5 seconds uh we became public and uh almost 39 uh 30 end of 39 quarters since we started. 2:12 2 minutes, 12 seconds uh and uh as as you know like overall in India uh there are maybe 70 to 80 2:19 2 minutes, 19 seconds million uni u maybe here I mean give or take uh around these many unique investors uh in stocks and MS and if you 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds look at the active internet population uh you know who are transacting online and so on is uh you know in the order of 2:36 2 minutes, 36 seconds 500 600 million and that is also growing. So, so why why we are telling you is because it feels like we can 2:44 2 minutes, 44 seconds continue kind of working for hundreds of more quarters kind of uh and uh continue building and also that in every quarter 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds you will probably hear us say the same thing like you know and it it might become repetitive what our purpose is 2:59 2 minutes, 59 seconds and how how we want to kind of build uh build well for uh for our customers in the country. Since this is the fourth 3:06 3 minutes, 6 seconds quarter, we also thought that it would kind of be good to kind of give give you kind of quick uh highlights of uh of the 3:15 3 minutes, 15 seconds last financial year and and then how we look forward from here. So uh quickly like first thing uh as you know like 3:22 3 minutes, 22 seconds last year was a very kind of u uh uh important uh year for us as we kind of became a public company. We also saw a 3:30 3 minutes, 30 seconds lot of kind of regulatory changes in some of the bro in in our broking business uh like two to the label fo and 3:38 3 minutes, 38 seconds so on and I think your company kind of did well there. Uh we launched new products uh namely like commodities and 3:47 3 minutes, 47 seconds bonds on bonds we had launched primary and now we are kind of launching secondaries. Uh both the products have 3:54 3 minutes, 54 seconds done uh well uh we scaled some of the existing products. MTF scaled really well for us in other products uh be 4:03 4 minutes, 3 seconds equity, MS, FNO, we grew our market share. Uh we fored into wealth management with Pisdom acquisition and 4:11 4 minutes, 11 seconds this helped us launched uh uh this uh helped us kind of introduce three more products on the platform which is like prism which uh which is the bank 4:19 4 minutes, 19 seconds partnership product. uh W which is wealth management uh for for um uh for affluent and HNI customers on grow and 4:28 4 minutes, 28 seconds prime which is more for mass affluent customers on grow on AMC we partnered with SSG of course it is subject to 4:36 4 minutes, 36 seconds regulatory approvals our EM grew like 2.5x in one year uh and uh and yeah of 4:43 4 minutes, 43 seconds course we became public so that was another milestone uh going forward uh I think u quick uh summary Our focus will continue to be on scaling our wealth. 4:54 4 minutes, 54 seconds Right? We we feel that now it's it's been 6 months uh for the of the acquisition uh systems acquisition and 5:02 5 minutes, 2 seconds now we've got a lot of kind of learnings and how to kind of uh look at this problem of look at you know solving this 5:09 5 minutes, 9 seconds problem of scaling uh and and so on. So we'll we'll we'll continue kind of scaling wealth. Second is we'll we'll 5:18 5 minutes, 18 seconds continue compounding our existing businesses grow market share which we have been continuously doing right and 5:24 5 minutes, 24 seconds uh thirdly we see like uh this year uh the I I I think that we will see the 5:31 5 minutes, 31 seconds inflection point how AI will kind of uh uh start impacting a lot and we we look at it in two ways. One is how how we can 5:40 5 minutes, 40 seconds improve the customer experience leveraging AI and second is on the productivity side where our internal teams are kind of shipping much faster, 5:47 5 minutes, 47 seconds shipping better and so on. And lastly as we as we keep doing like we continue finding uh new gaps, new products to 5:55 5 minutes, 55 seconds launch uh you know finding smaller fcurves. So we'll continue doing that and uh yeah that's uh that's all I look forward to the to the questions today. 6:04 6 minutes, 4 seconds Thank you. 6:06 6 minutes, 6 seconds Thank you lit. Uh we will now begin with Q&A. Michelle, please go ahead. 6:12 6 minutes, 12 seconds Thank you very much sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. 6:16 6 minutes, 16 seconds Anyone who wishes to ask questions may click on the raise hand icon. Before asking the question to the management, please introduce yourself providing your 6:25 6 minutes, 25 seconds name and your organization name. Please limit yourself to maximum of two questions so we can accommodate as many participants as possible. Ladies and 6:34 6 minutes, 34 seconds gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question cue assembled. You may please click on the raise hand icon to ask questions at this time. 6:57 6 minutes, 57 seconds The first question is from Supratim Duta. 7:00 7 minutes please unmute yourself and proceed with the question. 7:04 7 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah, I thanks a lot for the opportunity. My first question is on you know overall broking business. Uh in the 7:11 7 minutes, 11 seconds DRHP you had given you know data around how customer assets grew over a period of time. Typically people who started in 7:18 7 minutes, 18 seconds somewhere around 22 23 saw their assets grow by 3 4x over a you know 3 4 year 7:25 7 minutes, 25 seconds period. Uh how has the you know cohort which started maybe in 24 or 23 how are those tracking given you know the kind 7:33 7 minutes, 33 seconds of market correction that we have seen and what is the kind of behavior you know difference in behavior you are seeing in these cohorts which would have 7:41 7 minutes, 41 seconds started you know in the last one or two years uh versus you know the ones which started before because they would have seen a sharper correction in the last 12 7:50 7 minutes, 50 seconds months. So if you could give us some color on that you know how are you seeing you know customer behavior vary across different co-ops in you know that 7:58 7 minutes, 58 seconds would be very helpful. Secondly coming to your wealth management business you know thanks a lot for you know giving us some color around those businesses but 8:07 8 minutes, 7 seconds wanted to understand now that you know grow has been launched you know for since chan uh what is the kind of you know feedback that you are getting um 8:15 8 minutes, 15 seconds you know from the product you know how do you see that you know scale up maybe over a two to three year period and uh 8:23 8 minutes, 23 seconds you know what from the perspective of investments how do you see you know investments on the well might also play out over the next you know two years. 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds You know that's you know my second question. Lastly you know a few data keeping questions. One is uh you know you should give the affluent customer 8:40 8 minutes, 40 seconds asset breakup and contribution to revenue as well. So if you could give that that would be very helpful. How much of assets today is from affluent 8:49 8 minutes, 49 seconds clients on the platform and what is their revenue contribution? Thank you. 8:59 8 minutes, 59 seconds So let me take the first question on the broking side. I think uh we earlier also talked about that in last one one and a 9:06 9 minutes, 6 seconds half year the acquisition funnel has been slightly different. Primarily like we have seen that markets are not doing 9:14 9 minutes, 14 seconds so great since September 24. Since then what we have saw that the acquisition funnel has shifted more towards mutual 9:23 9 minutes, 23 seconds funds and ETFs as a products and hence the way customers actually getting introduced to the uh capital market has 9:31 9 minutes, 31 seconds become slightly different but their uh AUM uh gathering is probably still in 9:38 9 minutes, 38 seconds line with the similar kind of a way that was happening earlier because SIP is one of the largest mode of uh uh AUM 9:46 9 minutes, 46 seconds accommodation that is happening on MF as well as on ETF also SIP is very big now. 9:52 9 minutes, 52 seconds Uh and the another thing is there is a M2M that keeps on happening uh across different products. Uh even like ETFs 10:01 10 minutes, 1 second because gold and silver is a large part of it. There's a huge MTM that people saw uh during uh February versus January 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds people were like probably significantly positive as well. But what we have seen is at a uh aggregate level most of these 10:18 10 minutes, 18 seconds customers are still profitable with the obviously their uh 31st March being a not a best day for cutoff but if you 10:26 10 minutes, 26 seconds look at just after that most of the uh pain that was there uh in March or large part of that pain has kind of reversed 10:34 10 minutes, 34 seconds and hence people are still making money and hence the inflows are still kind of not going down but on M2M basis there is 10:43 10 minutes, 43 seconds a dip in the EUM the second question. 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds Sorry what was the second question and yeah uh uh the second question was on the wealth management business. So you know given grow prime has been launched 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds since January wanted to understand what is your initial trend or you know learnings from that uh and how do you plan to you know scale that up over the 11:16 11 minutes, 16 seconds next two years and what kind of investments would not only grow prime but you know W4 grow as well as fist term require over the next two to three 11:23 11 minutes, 23 seconds years because I think in the shareholder letter you have called out that fist term should be profitable by FI28. So just wanted to understand that you know 11:30 11 minutes, 30 seconds how are you looking at investments across these three platforms as well. 11:34 11 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. Hey. So, so I think I think it's a bit early. It's been two quarters now since the since the acquisition and all. 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds I think we are thinking it in a kind of uh we are solving it in a very nice way and so on. So, I think it's very early 11:49 11 minutes, 49 seconds to comment on anything right now. A lot of things kind of uh we are building. 11:55 11 minutes, 55 seconds Got it. Understood. So you know just uh Lalat one thing then you know on the wealth uh business uh what has you know 12:04 12 minutes, 4 seconds have you seen any cross-ell between you know who are taking you know the mutual funds um you know broking and you know 12:12 12 minutes, 12 seconds wealth currently has there been any cross-ell or is is it still too early to comment there? 12:18 12 minutes, 18 seconds No of course there is uh but as I said like it's it's early and we are still kind of uh streamlining the flows and 12:25 12 minutes, 25 seconds everything. It's more more I think the demand wise I think uh from uh from the 12:33 12 minutes, 33 seconds overall potential perspective and demand perspective there is a there's a large market I mean I think what we are focusing more on the service levels and 12:41 12 minutes, 41 seconds uh raising the bar of the experience and everything understood understood and on the last you know third question on 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds [clears throat] affluent customer assets on the platform and their share of revenue you. 12:55 12 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah, I think we'll probably get back to you on this. I think we don't even top of our mind. Sure. Sure. Thank you. 13:06 13 minutes, 6 seconds Thank you. The next question is from Shank Godha. 13:13 13 minutes, 13 seconds Please unmute yourself and proceed with your question. 13:16 13 minutes, 16 seconds Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. Uh so my my first question is on your equity options. uh market 13:23 13 minutes, 23 seconds share mean if I look like to like basis uh compared to previous quarter and the current quarter it seems that your 13:30 13 minutes, 30 seconds market share has increased from from 9.1 to 10.6 six uh yeah um so so so what 13:38 13 minutes, 38 seconds exactly in your view has led to this sharp jump in the market share of 150 basis point is it to do with your new 13:45 13 minutes, 45 seconds product launches like 915 or or grow cloud and API has played a role if if and and also you can give a bit of color 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds out of the total options trading uh what happens in your platform uh how much is uh today contributed by Algo and how do 14:02 14 minutes, 2 seconds you see it to play out going ahead. So that's that's my first question and and and second maybe more more of on data 14:09 14 minutes, 9 seconds keeping uh on on commodity you give the uh give the maybe indirectly the orders and and and the number of users but if 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds you can give a bit of market share also on edit terms uh retail edit terms that uh that will be useful to understand how 14:25 14 minutes, 25 seconds quickly you achieved what kind of market share because because the number of orders indirectly gives the color but but we don't know how how exactly the market share is. Yeah, those are my two questions. 14:34 14 minutes, 34 seconds Sure. So, let me take that. Uh, so on the uh derivative side, the equity derivative side. So, actually it's not 14:42 14 minutes, 42 seconds just options, it's a combination of future and options. Uh, the market share that we uh got expanded in this quarter, 14:50 14 minutes, 50 seconds it is a continuation if you look at it on a Y basis or uh uh it is happening for us. The reason is there is a twofold 14:58 14 minutes, 58 seconds reason. on the new customer that are coming uh uh to the kind of derivatives market. There is some benefits that we 15:07 15 minutes, 7 seconds are driving from some of the new initiatives that we are taking including 915 but large part of this is again coming on grow itself. Uh and the second 15:16 15 minutes, 16 seconds piece is because the last quarter had a lot of volatility and we saw that our customers who used to kind of trade 15:24 15 minutes, 24 seconds earlier have also started doing more uh and hence the absolute number of customers are significantly increased. 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds So roughly earlier we had around 14 lakh customers on a quarterly basis transacting. This time we had around uh 15:39 15 minutes, 39 seconds 17 lakh customers transacting. So which has actually helped us increase the volume and uh output was obviously in 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds terms of market share as well. Uh this shows that like we are uh retention uh 15:55 15 minutes, 55 seconds overall is high on the platform which helps us recover whenever the customer is interested in any other product. So 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds the customer might not be doing derivatives in last quarter but started doing derivatives in this quarter might be doing stocks or mutual fund in the 16:10 16 minutes, 10 seconds last quarter. So that has actually helped us uh delivering a higher market share on the derivative side. And the 16:19 16 minutes, 19 seconds second uh from the ELGO uh side uh I think we don't have uh like it's not 16:26 16 minutes, 26 seconds meaningful any uh API or ELGO today is not really meaningful in terms of any transactions and the third I think we 16:34 16 minutes, 34 seconds will start giving uh uh commodity related ADTO because we haven't just crossed even a year of our uh 16:41 16 minutes, 41 seconds commodities launch. So we thought probably once we close cross cross a year that is the time probably we'll start delivering the market share number 16:50 16 minutes, 50 seconds and so that there will be a y comparison etc. 16:53 16 minutes, 53 seconds So available to you okay but but isan any any stress or or any strategy you have very clearly on on algo based 17:02 17 minutes, 2 seconds trading because they meaningfully contribute to the volume growth and and order growth probably. So, so means means any any outlook you have or or or 17:11 17 minutes, 11 seconds plans you have with respect to that piece will be useful if you can bit tell softer points there. And secondly, in the in the quarter uh lastly sorry in 17:20 17 minutes, 20 seconds the quarter we saw decent jump in the employee cost and and your your depreciation is it largely related to wisdom 17:28 17 minutes, 28 seconds uh uh empanelment which left led to the increase in the employee cut and this is the new normal going ahead. 17:35 17 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. So let me take the first one. I think as of now we don't have a very like strong strategy on focusing on 17:41 17 minutes, 41 seconds algo. Uh we believe the new regulation that are still kind of getting uh cleaned up over a bit of time will give 17:49 17 minutes, 49 seconds us more clarity and we will probably jump into this market once we have uh full clarity on the regulatory piece 17:56 17 minutes, 56 seconds then only we'll be able to kind of build a product which we can scale. So hence I think we are trying to kind of wait for 18:04 18 minutes, 4 seconds that to happen. On the second part, uh you're right on the depreciation side, there is a impact primarily coming 18:11 18 minutes, 11 seconds because of the Phys acquisition, there is a increase in depreciation that happened uh on employee costs because we 18:18 18 minutes, 18 seconds are investing across multiple uh functions including asset management and wealth side and there are initiatives on 18:27 18 minutes, 27 seconds the AI side also that we are taking in grow where we are doing investing. So this investment typically comes in the 18:35 18 minutes, 35 seconds people form for us and hence the employee cost has increased a little bit from last quarter to this quarter. 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds Uh is can you give the head count if you don't mind? So today the head count is around 1,800. Okay. Okay. Uh yes. 18:54 18 minutes, 54 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Manish. 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds Please unmute yourself and proceed with your question. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Uh so my question on the wealth management 19:07 19 minutes, 7 seconds business. Uh so if you take the 3 to five year view on the business uh so what is the differentiating factors what 19:15 19 minutes, 15 seconds uh grow will bring to the market compared to the existing models? Can you talk about that thing that will be helpful for us? 19:24 19 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah sure I'll take that. uh uh so uh see a couple of things that are happening is one is there is a 19:30 19 minutes, 30 seconds significant uh change of the customer base from the wealth point of view the new segment of users are becoming 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds affluent and HNI they're coming from a very uh you know new age uh kind of experience so there's an experiential 19:46 19 minutes, 46 seconds layer which is going to be different for the building the wealth business and as Lit was also saying that we are investing in raising the bar of 19:54 19 minutes, 54 seconds experience and the service and which is what going to be a differentiator for us uh which comes both from the technology point of view and also on the product 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds selection to an advisory role point of view. So we'll continue building on this which is what takes us time to get the nail the right uh solution for people 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds and then keep on scaling that from there. 20:14 20 minutes, 14 seconds Secondly sir for a see last two years we have seen that there's a hardly any return to the investor u uh and now the 20:23 20 minutes, 23 seconds things are turning around. So uh two question one is the active customer base participation at industry level as well 20:31 20 minutes, 31 seconds as the in your business should increase if the trend sustain in times to come. 20:37 20 minutes, 37 seconds That's the first thing. Second is in terms of cost to serve and cost to u u 20:44 20 minutes, 44 seconds uh cost to grow. Uh both cost compared to revenue growth what pace we can assume uh expenditure growth uh versus 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds uh let's say uh 20% revenue growth what kind of growth we should model in terms of uh overall cost of growth and cost of u u maintenance basically. 21:07 21 minutes, 7 seconds So let me take that. So on uh on the new users coming to industry I think we have seen the down cycle. I think things are 21:16 21 minutes, 16 seconds looking better than earlier but again we are wary of a lot of the macroeconomic factors that are impacting the markets 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds including uh uh tariffs and including like largely FIA's uh being negative 21:31 21 minutes, 31 seconds from the market has also impacted significantly the way market would have grown otherwise. I think we are waiting 21:39 21 minutes, 39 seconds for that kind of clear signal to be there where uh people have started or FIS have started putting money in India. 21:46 21 minutes, 46 seconds I think that can be a good indicator to say that now things are on the positive cycle but early as of now it doesn't look like it's obvious. 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds We might need to wait for a few more quarters to say that we are in the uh next cycle of growth but definitely we are away from the bottom yet as of now. 22:07 22 minutes, 7 seconds On the second side uh uh on the cost to uh serve as well as cost to grow. So the 22:14 22 minutes, 14 seconds cost to serve the we look at is largely a tech related cost. So they are uh obviously as the revenue per transaction 22:22 22 minutes, 22 seconds grows our cost to uh serve actually goes down. But at the same time with AI 22:28 22 minutes, 28 seconds coming in all of our uh tech related AI cost will come as a part part of cost to uh serve. there might be a slight bit of 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds increase but we don't see that increase to be like uh proportional to the revenue. So as a percentage we expect 22:44 22 minutes, 44 seconds that it to be kind of slightly lower but obviously there will be uh uh absolute basis increases that keep on happening 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds on the cost to grow largely the spend has been more or less consistent on an absolute basis. So if you look at 23:00 23 minutes between last year and this year we would have spent very similar to 450 to 500 cr is kind of a spend and we will keep on 23:08 23 minutes, 8 seconds increasing this a little bit but it's not going to be again linear with terms of revenue. It will be more to kind of 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds build new brands. So W coming in might have some spends attached to it. 915 coming in might have some uh spends 23:24 23 minutes, 24 seconds attached to it but it'll always be uh again likely it'll be lower than the growth in the revenue. 23:32 23 minutes, 32 seconds Thank you very much sir. Thank you. 23:37 23 minutes, 37 seconds Thank you. The next question is from Vive Gautam. Please unmute yourself and proceed with your question. 23:45 23 minutes, 45 seconds Am I audible? 23:48 23 minutes, 48 seconds Yes sir. Please proceed. Yeah, I just wanted to understand about the opportunity size and the expected growth 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds rate you can have and more importantly about the differentiator for us versus the competition which is helping us in 24:03 24 minutes, 3 seconds grow and uh any concern on the uh sebi and uh government's liking to sort of 24:10 24 minutes, 10 seconds curb the speculation of future and option especially for the retail traders who are major class and how do we 24:18 24 minutes, 18 seconds mitigate Thank you. 24:22 24 minutes, 22 seconds Yeah. Um so I'll take that. So from an opportunity point of view, so we look forward like we'll continue compounding on our uh core business where there are 24:31 24 minutes, 31 seconds new investors coming in and you know in the opening statement we spoke about the penetration uh which is possible in the country and uh we will continue uh 24:41 24 minutes, 41 seconds trying to gain a larger and larger market share. So that builds a one-dimensional opportunity where there are new investors coming in and they are participating various products that we 24:49 24 minutes, 49 seconds have. The other dimension is launching new products and services for some of the segment of the users like wealth is one of them. Uh 915 is another one. So 24:57 24 minutes, 57 seconds we are able to make uh more products available for a particular segment of users. So these all creates opportunities uh for future. 25:07 25 minutes, 7 seconds Uh sorry what was your second question? 25:09 25 minutes, 9 seconds Second question was regarding the differentiators for us versus the So we uh see we believe that you know 25:17 25 minutes, 17 seconds our um so the we we continue investing in building an experience uh for user which 25:25 25 minutes, 25 seconds is you know which converts into a higher retention for us because people 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds [clears throat] 25:30 25 minutes, 30 seconds the users who come in on our platform they stay longer they are able to participate in different products and different market scenarios with their 25:37 25 minutes, 37 seconds different preferences and uh with the technology investment that we do we are able to create some differential equ uh experiences in terms of their activation 25:46 25 minutes, 46 seconds in terms of their uh engagement on the product. So this will continue to be our defension will continue investing in that. 25:55 25 minutes, 55 seconds The last was about the regulation from the government side trying to curb the regulations the market and start with 26:03 26 minutes, 3 seconds 90% of the customers losing money and uh gaming application one point they being banned all of a sudden. So what are the steps we are taking to mitigate that? 26:15 26 minutes, 15 seconds So we have been operating in a regulated space for the last like since we started. So we do participate with our regulators on uh very regular basis on 26:24 26 minutes, 24 seconds all the concerns that they have. Their concerns are pretty much what our concerns are like if all of us you know are trying to work in the favor of 26:32 26 minutes, 32 seconds investors. Uh ultimately we want to create wealth for our customers. So anything that uh comes up we'll participate with them and we'll try to solve it in industry level. 26:46 26 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you. Thank you. 26:52 26 minutes, 52 seconds We'll take the next question from Deepanjan Gosh. Please unmute yourself and proceed with your question. 26:59 26 minutes, 59 seconds Uh hi, good evening. Uh hope I'm audible. Yes sir, please proceed. 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah. Hi. Uh so the first question uh was in terms of the MTF uh book. U obviously uh I mean for you the MTF book 27:12 27 minutes, 12 seconds has been on a rising trajectory. Now what I wanted to understand is if you look at the customers who are uh taking the MTF proposition on your platform. uh 27:22 27 minutes, 22 seconds have you done any uh study to understand I mean are they new to MTF customers or these are customers who have been 27:29 27 minutes, 29 seconds onboarded once you started the MTF journey and they are kind of acquainted with the product class or these would be like existing customers who were 27:38 27 minutes, 38 seconds probably aing this product through a competitor platform and now that you are also offering the product they have kind of shifted uh the platform some color on 27:46 27 minutes, 46 seconds that would be useful uh the second question uh is on the platform R2 uh I mean that is almost back to pre- 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds November 24 levels. Uh so again I mean uh is there uh any work that you have done to understand is it like uh weaker 28:03 28 minutes, 3 seconds customers who got weeded out of the platform or went into dormcy or is it you guys are acquiring highquality new customers or maybe the existing 28:12 28 minutes, 12 seconds customers just got acclimatized uh to the new uh regime whether it's incremental taxation or incremental 28:18 28 minutes, 18 seconds regulations. Uh and finally one data keeping question uh if you can give the average uh MTF book for the quarter uh that will be useful. 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds Let me take that uh on MTF uh I think there is no study as such that we have done but our understanding is that MTF 28:39 28 minutes, 39 seconds for us is not a acquisition product. It is mostly our existing customers are using MTF. earlier they might be doing 28:49 28 minutes, 49 seconds intraday instead of MTF is one use case uh where customers now are holding on to their positions for longer is one big 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds use case uh and second thing it's very difficult for us to actually even uh figure it out that if the customer were 29:06 29 minutes, 6 seconds doing MTF outside or uh or doing it uh in-house but what we know is that most of our customers are unique to us and 29:14 29 minutes, 14 seconds they only transact with us uh uh and hence the likelihood of the customers doing empty somewhere else and doing 29:21 29 minutes, 21 seconds rest of the things here is unlikely especially on the cache segment side. Uh the second question uh second part of 29:30 29 minutes, 30 seconds the I think we will figure out from the average uh if you want to disclose and we'll come back to you on that part. I 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds forgot the second question was on ARPU s. So ARPU was actually a more complicated uh reason why where we are 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds today. So it's a mix of the penetration of FNO going down uh which led to 29:51 29 minutes, 51 seconds actually uh uh the ARPU overall at a platform level going down but at the same time with MTF coming in commodities 29:59 29 minutes, 59 seconds coming in the ARPO actually went up. So it's a a combination of these two factors which has helped us kind of reach to the uh pre- November numbers. 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds It is not because the again people have started trading or FNO has again started penetrating more. The penetration of FNO 30:17 30 minutes, 17 seconds is still in like uh 10% around range which used to be like 18 odd% uh before November. 30:28 30 minutes, 28 seconds Hey, thanks Shishan. Just one small followup. I mean we can discuss the average MPF for the quarter later but I mean in terms of the unwinding that the 30:35 30 minutes, 35 seconds industry has seen uh in March I mean would you be in line with it? uh you would have done fared better any qualitative color 30:42 30 minutes, 42 seconds so we also saw a peak somewhere in between uh I think probably Febend was or I don't remember actually gland end 30:50 30 minutes, 50 seconds or fee end we actually peaked and then there was a dip uh and this number is after the dip uh so the average will be 30:57 30 minutes, 57 seconds probably closer to this or slightly uh higher than this also is possible uh but obviously things are again april is 31:06 31 minutes, 6 seconds better than uh March from a market perspective as well. Got it and the team and all the best. 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds Thank you. 31:16 31 minutes, 16 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Abhiji Sakar. Please unmute yourself and proceed with your question. 31:25 31 minutes, 25 seconds Hey. Hi. Hello everyone. Uh my first question is uh like a broad question on the platform. Now it's kind of you you guys are fairly large uh and in some 31:34 31 minutes, 34 seconds ways a bit more mature. Now do you see uh any demand for uh services like you know um stock advisory [clears throat] 31:42 31 minutes, 42 seconds or like recommendations at least from the more mature set of customers um and and whether that's really the case and 31:50 31 minutes, 50 seconds if yes then you know how are you kind of ensuring that uh you continue to retain some of those mature customers on the platform. The second question is uh on 31:59 31 minutes, 59 seconds the grow prime uh if uh you can indicate uh you know when do you plan to kind of extend it to existing customers and I 32:07 32 minutes, 7 seconds have a couple of data questions after that. Thank you. 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds So so let me take this uh Vit. So so you are right. So this is a good uh thing like so I think we have seen this demand 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds for long now like stock advisory MF advisory has been quite is probably one 32:26 32 minutes, 26 seconds of the highest asked uh question on our on our in our voice of customer uh and 32:34 32 minutes, 34 seconds uh we have been kind of thinking about it uh we will launch it when the timing is right when we have the right solution and so on. Uh the second one prime again 32:44 32 minutes, 44 seconds uh as so our philosophy has always been like you know kind of craft the product which is like the delta between our 32:53 32 minutes, 53 seconds solution and what exists should be like should be a huge delta right and prime we have been kind of devising the 33:01 33 minutes, 1 second product for kind of some time now it is available to some customers and uh we feel that it will be in a 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds position for existing customers Because again we don't want to give the timeline but uh we have some kind we are optimist 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds about uh we are optimistic about about um about the creation of a product that our customers would love. 33:28 33 minutes, 28 seconds Got it. 33:30 33 minutes, 30 seconds Um okay and a couple of data questions if you could uh share what was the share 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds of MTF in the 4 cache ADTO if you could share that number and then uh on the cost to operate there was a comment uh 33:45 33 minutes, 45 seconds in the letter on uh some risk related costs. So if you could kind of uh um explain that and then also like how do 33:53 33 minutes, 53 seconds we think about the entire like cost to operate growth for the next year as well. 34:00 34 minutes So uh I think we'll get back to you on the percentage. My guess is it is still between 5 to 10%. It hasn't significantly changed. Uh but the exact 34:09 34 minutes, 9 seconds number will come back to you. Uh and the second part the cost to operate like you said there is a risk related cost which 34:17 34 minutes, 17 seconds again because of the volatility that we saw both on uh uh the commodity side and 34:24 34 minutes, 24 seconds then on the equity side. So Feb was more on commodity side when uh uh gold and silver kind of significantly moved in a 34:33 34 minutes, 33 seconds day or two and there was uh square off related kind of uh uh you can say 34:40 34 minutes, 40 seconds negative balances that people went in and which we kind of accounted for in uh adjusted in cost to operate. And the 34:48 34 minutes, 48 seconds second piece happened during the March time when uh Iran war started and there was significant volatility in some of 34:56 34 minutes, 56 seconds the stocks and where uh in MTF we actually accounted some of the negative balances and which we have kind of put 35:04 35 minutes, 4 seconds it into our P&L as cost to operate. uh going forward uh with exception of these 35:11 35 minutes, 11 seconds risk limited costs I think you can assume that this will grow one uh in Q1 uh with the appraisal cycle uh there 35:20 35 minutes, 20 seconds will be a one-time kind of increase and after that we expect it to be kind of more or less stable for the rest of the year. 35:28 35 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you Shan. Thank you Rajit. 35:34 35 minutes, 34 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Madur Sharma. Please unmute yourself and proceed sir. 35:42 35 minutes, 42 seconds Hi uh thank you for taking my question. 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds So first on cost to operate uh Ishan do you mean it will remain stable as percentage of revenue? No. So in 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds absolute uh it will increase in the Q1 because of the appraisals and after that in absolute it will remain stable and 36:01 36 minutes, 1 second all of this which I'm saying is primarily talking about grow as a platform. The AMC business and the uh 36:08 36 minutes, 8 seconds fisdom business will still have more investments uh in terms of hiring as well which will increase the cost for 36:17 36 minutes, 17 seconds that business. But for the platform grow as a platform these costs will become stable after Q1. 36:24 36 minutes, 24 seconds Right. Right. Understood. Uh thank you. 36:26 36 minutes, 26 seconds Second uh so Lalith mentioned about uh how we are investing in AI and how it is going to improve customer experience as 36:33 36 minutes, 33 seconds well as back end. So uh uh Lalith can you highlight few initiatives few key initiatives that we are uh implementing in near term. 36:45 36 minutes, 45 seconds So mother so u from productivity side I think the entire SGLC which is software development life cycle AI is kind of 36:53 36 minutes, 53 seconds changing that completely right uh then from uh uh from the overall like uh company operations perspective 37:02 37 minutes, 2 seconds uh and then on the customer experience side our uh our customer support for example and then we also launched GR1 37:10 37 minutes, 10 seconds which is uh which is like a co-pilot uh customer and research and all. So u 37:18 37 minutes, 18 seconds there bunch of u uh places like this and uh all these are like uh internally 37:26 37 minutes, 26 seconds we uh we haven't disclosed the percentage of code and percentage of this thing kind of uh done by AI but we 37:34 37 minutes, 34 seconds are seeing a meaningful kind of difference uh in in our kind of way of working. 37:42 37 minutes, 42 seconds Okay. Okay. So do you expect the number of uh engineers basically people who are involved in uh coding uh to go down in coming years in a meaningful way? 37:54 37 minutes, 54 seconds So some other the way we look at it is see uh we are in a journey where we are building lot of things. 38:02 38 minutes, 2 seconds So currently how we think it is uh with the same strengths can we ship more can we ship faster and can we ship higher quality right? 38:11 38 minutes, 11 seconds Mh. So if you look at the trajectory also of last four years or so right number of products that we have launched 38:19 38 minutes, 19 seconds in last four years is like uh I think we have we have we we had like I think three four products four years back and 38:26 38 minutes, 26 seconds now we have like 12 products and still launching more and so on right and we have been able to do all this 38:33 38 minutes, 33 seconds with the strength more or less similar kind of strength right so so this is how kind of we like to see 38:40 38 minutes, 40 seconds um where uh with the existing strength we can launch lot of new products. Now all the new products that we launch we don't need to kind of uh we we cow out a 38:49 38 minutes, 49 seconds team from within kind of our existing folks. 38:53 38 minutes, 53 seconds Understood. Understood. Thank you. And lastly uh data keeping question. So uh Isan if you can tell me the revenue from AMC business. 39:06 39 minutes, 6 seconds Lit you have top of your mind. Sorry I don't remember. Uh no worries, no worries. I'll reach out to Kunal for that. Uh thank you. That was all from my side. 39:18 39 minutes, 18 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from N to Nal. 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds Please unmute yourself and proceed with your question. Yeah. Hey uh I'm audible. 39:30 39 minutes, 30 seconds Yes sir. So uh with uh cost to serve and cost to grow kind of you know growing slower than the revenue growth rate and cost to operate as you're mentioning 39:39 39 minutes, 39 seconds will kind of stabilize. Uh so how should one think about margins going forward? 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds Uh uh what is the margin rate or exit margin we're looking at for the next year. 39:50 39 minutes, 50 seconds So it's I think again correlated with the revenue growth. Uh I think revenue growth has lot of levers attached to it. 39:58 39 minutes, 58 seconds So it's very difficult for us to put a number to the revenue growth. Uh we keep on saying that if our revenue grows 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds beyond let's say 15 uh% then probably the margin will keep on expanding. If it grows 30% probably the expansion will be 40:15 40 minutes, 15 seconds more. If it grows slightly lower then the margin will not expand. So like that is like the formula but it's difficult 40:22 40 minutes, 22 seconds to predict how much will be the real revenue growth uh in the next year. 40:29 40 minutes, 29 seconds Okay. Uh got ahead. And uh on the uh if you want to carve out the cost of acquisition uh like the number we gave 40:36 40 minutes, 36 seconds uh in last letter but I think we have not given this time. Uh how much was the cost of acquisition? So cost of acquisition. 40:46 40 minutes, 46 seconds Uh so it's it'll be more or less the same number. Uh it hasn't quarterly also it hasn't significantly changed. What we 40:54 40 minutes, 54 seconds have learned is that again marketing cost is more or less consistent at least on an annual basis. There is a little 41:01 41 minutes, 1 second bit of volatility because of IPL. Uh but it has become largely a fixed number for us. 41:10 41 minutes, 10 seconds So uh shall we see more uh because of IPL shall we see because of more advertisement and all a little higher 41:16 41 minutes, 16 seconds spends in Q1 or Q1 is generally slightly higher uh but in last year I think we 41:24 41 minutes, 24 seconds were conservative I think this year we'll probably do slightly more than the last year. 41:31 41 minutes, 31 seconds Okay, got it. And uh one more uh question on the uh I mean the ration for changing the calculation of uh this 41:39 41 minutes, 39 seconds market share if uh I think uh my understanding that exchange anyways you know uh does uh like plus buy and sell 41:48 41 minutes, 48 seconds automated uh the overall trade as one the count as one. uh so I think the industry also kind of reports like that 41:56 41 minutes, 56 seconds only uh your competition also wanted some sense why we have kind of you know change the way we have shown the market share. So there are multiple reasons. 42:05 42 minutes, 5 seconds One of the big reason is that internally this is how we look at it. Uh and we feel that uh we should be more 42:13 42 minutes, 13 seconds transparent in showing what we look at and that is how is the possibility also right we uh if you look at tomorrow how 42:21 42 minutes, 21 seconds much market share we can have is a is what we want to kind of target not really how will it look like from a uh 42:30 42 minutes, 30 seconds calculation perspective. We think this is a better assessment of market share uh than what we were doing earlier. Uh and hence we have kind of moved to this. 42:42 42 minutes, 42 seconds Got it. That is very helpful. Uh thank you and all the best. 42:49 42 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you. The next question is from Samrit Sharma. 42:54 42 minutes, 54 seconds Please unmute yourself and proceed sir. 43:00 43 minutes Uh good evening everyone. I hope I'm audible. Just one question from my side. 43:06 43 minutes, 6 seconds So uh what is the company's thoughts on the emergence of these new fee only brokers and essentially how do you see the market landscape shifting according to that? 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds Do you want to take it? 43:22 43 minutes, 22 seconds Uh so sorry uh Sam you mean Sam you mean new age for zero fee or low fee fixed fee or zero? 43:31 43 minutes, 31 seconds Zero fee fee only fee only. 43:35 43 minutes, 35 seconds So I I think we see currently our thought process is like uh let's say if we don't talk about competitors if we 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds just think from the value perspective that we provide to the customer our philosophy is right our philosophy is 43:51 43 minutes, 51 seconds that uh give more value to customer than you that you charge and uh and we feel that 43:59 43 minutes, 59 seconds uh uh it's also fair for customers like they pay they are paying on per transition ation basis and so on. So, so 44:09 44 minutes, 9 seconds and and we also see that customers are kind of happy with that. So, we haven't kind of thought about that. 44:19 44 minutes, 19 seconds Do you see any significant uh move in the way the industry works because of uh the emergence of such players? 44:27 44 minutes, 27 seconds We'll keep a watch Sam but as of now we don't see that. Fair enough. Thank you. 44:34 44 minutes, 34 seconds Thank you. 44:37 44 minutes, 37 seconds Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take the last question for today from Raghav Maheshwari. Please unmute yourself and proceed. 44:52 44 minutes, 52 seconds Mr. Maheshwari, please proceed, sir. 45:02 45 minutes, 2 seconds I'm sorry, sir. You're inaudible. 45:19 45 minutes, 19 seconds As there was no response, we'll take the last question from Gorav Single. Please unmute yourself and proceed. 45:29 45 minutes, 29 seconds Thanks for taking my attention and thanks for taking our time. Um just a few questions. So one is um for the 45:36 45 minutes, 36 seconds industry we have seen the NCS active clients kind of tattooing out at around 50 million uh for a while now and for 45:45 45 minutes, 45 seconds grow obviously the client growth has been quite good because of market share gain but then eventually of course the industry needs to grow. So the analogy 45:54 45 minutes, 54 seconds you drew in your opening remarks was that there are five 600 million people who who shop actively online. Uh so to 46:03 46 minutes, 3 seconds get this 50 billion industry number let's say 100 over time what gives you that confidence that you know that the industry can keep expanding rapidly as 46:12 46 minutes, 12 seconds it did in the last five years. That was the first question. Secondly, are we hitting any open interest limit on these 46:19 46 minutes, 19 seconds like single secret products like you know Sensex options or some of the other products because of our scale and 46:26 46 minutes, 26 seconds thirdly what's our uh settlement cycle right now in terms of repatriating cash balances the client cash balances back 46:34 46 minutes, 34 seconds to their bank accounts and what is the uh thinking of the regulators on reducing or increasing this time period 46:43 46 minutes, 43 seconds uh which would obviously impact our interesting. Thank you. 46:47 46 minutes, 47 seconds So let me take this. So the growth rate of this industry is actually driven a lot based on which kind of market we are 46:57 46 minutes, 57 seconds in right. So if you look at in last one one and a half year we have been in the kind of more volatile market but uh before that we were in a like a bull run 47:06 47 minutes, 6 seconds and that was the time when large part of the customer base kind of grew and this keeps on happening and if you look at it in the last 20 years history of uh stock 47:15 47 minutes, 15 seconds market also the growth rate typically comes largely the industry growth rate typically comes in those bull runs and then it's like stabilized a bit and then 47:24 47 minutes, 24 seconds again it happens right so we've uh When will it happen will depend on when will the next bull run comes. Uh and that is 47:32 47 minutes, 32 seconds the time when market will expand and typically that is that time the expansion is like very very high. So 47:39 47 minutes, 39 seconds it's not uh uh like 5% 10% the growth rates are typically significantly higher but if you look at a longer frame the 47:47 47 minutes, 47 seconds industry is growing like a 10 to 15% uh caggr. on the uh on the questions on 47:55 47 minutes, 55 seconds settlement I think that I remember now is basically it is on the customer demand so there are customer have today broadly three options they can do 48:04 48 minutes, 4 seconds bill-to-ill settlement they can do uh monthly settlement or they can do quarterly settlement quarterly settlement today is like a obligation 48:11 48 minutes, 11 seconds that you can't go beyond that and we do whatever a customer has chosen and for 48:18 48 minutes, 18 seconds quarterly settlement it is uh done on the first month of the quarter and monthly settlement done on the first 48:26 48 minutes, 26 seconds week of the month and the bill to bill settlement is as in when the bill is posted and next year you'll do the settlement when the actual settlement happens from the exchange side as well. 48:35 48 minutes, 35 seconds Uh sorry I forgot the second question that you asked. 48:40 48 minutes, 40 seconds So for this settlement cycle the limit which is quarter now this seems to be keep going down. So what is the 48:48 48 minutes, 48 seconds regulator's thinking on this? Does it keep going down or have we? 48:51 48 minutes, 51 seconds So it has been quarterly since last 10 years now and I think it is again a choice. We haven't seen a customer being 48:59 48 minutes, 59 seconds choosing billto- bill settlement significantly more than monthly or quarterly. Actually quarterly is probably what most customer wants because it's lot more convenient. 49:11 49 minutes, 11 seconds uh if we do a quarterly settlement whenever the quarterly settlement happens lot of customers actually get surprised at why their money was 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds refunded and so on uh and it becomes inconvenience for a lot of customers. uh we don't look at it less from a our 49:27 49 minutes, 27 seconds income perspective but think it more from a what customer wants and provide them uh in a more seamless and a uh more 49:36 49 minutes, 36 seconds trustful way and do it and if you look at we give option of instant withdrawals where in the day also if you want to 49:44 49 minutes, 44 seconds take money out you can withdraw uh and the money will come to your bank account within few seconds. 49:53 49 minutes, 53 seconds Just lastly was if you're hitting any limits on these like single script option open interest. So we talked about it last quarter also. 50:01 50 minutes, 1 second So on average we are like less than half of it uh uh on the limit side. Uh and in the last quarter we uh we haven't hit 50:09 50 minutes, 9 seconds that limit uh uh at all for any day or any script. 50:17 50 minutes, 17 seconds All right. Thank you. 50:21 50 minutes, 21 seconds Thank you. As that was the last question for today, I now hand over the conference back to Kunal for closing comments. Thank you and over to you. 50:30 50 minutes, 30 seconds Uh thank you everyone for joining the call today. Uh and feel free to reach out to us for any questions or clarifications. Have a good week. 50:40 50 minutes, 40 seconds Thank you. 50:40 50 minutes, 40 seconds Thank you members of the management. On behalf of Crow that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may exit the meeting now. Thank you. 50:49 50 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you so much.