Bhagyanagarindia Ltd — Q4 FY26

Bhagyanagar India Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4_k3SDlex8 Published: 9 days ago

0:01 1 second Good day everyone and welcome to the quarter 4 and fiscal year 26 earnings call for Bhaginagar India Limited. Thank you for joining us today. This call will 0:10 10 seconds cover the company's operational and financial performance for the quarter and the full fiscal year followed by an update on strategic priorities going 0:18 18 seconds forward. Please note that certain statements made during this call may be forward-looking in nature based on company's current expectations and 0:26 26 seconds assumptions. These statements are subject to risk and uncertaintities that could cause actual results to defer materially from those anticipated. The 0:35 35 seconds company undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statement except as required by law. Participants are 0:43 43 seconds advised to exercise due caution and not place undue reliance on such statements. 0:49 49 seconds This call is being recorded for compliance purposes. representing Bhaginagar India Limited we have on call with us today Mr. Dvindendra Surana 0:58 58 seconds managing director Mr. Narendra Surana founder Mr. Adwit Surana business development manager Mr. Surendra Vtoria 1:06 1 minute, 6 seconds chief financial officer and Mr. Rahul Surana, financial manager. I now invite the management team to share their 1:13 1 minute, 13 seconds opening remarks. We will subsequently open the floor for the Q&A session. Thank you and over to you. 1:21 1 minute, 21 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Uh good morning everybody. 1:25 1 minute, 25 seconds gives me pleasure in welcoming you all to the investor call and presentation of 1:31 1 minute, 31 seconds Baganagar India for the year ending 26 and the presentation for the last year 1:39 1 minute, 39 seconds as well as uh the forthcoming uh developments that are taking place in the company. I now hand over to Dinda Surana. 1:49 1 minute, 49 seconds Thank you Narendra. 1:51 1 minute, 51 seconds So I'll just make a few uh statements and we'll try to run you through a presentation which will give us more details about the company. 2:11 2 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. So three generations 40 years one mission to make India copper world 2:18 2 minutes, 18 seconds class. For the last 40 years, we uh have been producing copper with an unblenmished track record of no delayed 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds payments to any suppliers, banks or any institutions. We have 500 plus clients with enduring relationships of over 30 2:36 2 minutes, 36 seconds years anchored in quality, integrity and service. Our capacity has now reached 2:42 2 minutes, 42 seconds 35,000 metric tons this year. Uh with a new uh 60 acre integrated facility near Hyderabad. We have two ISO certific uh 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds certified manufacturing plants and P pan India customer base across all sectors and also in exports. This year we have 3:00 3 minutes achieved 59% value added products with a lot of new products which are coming in 3:07 3 minutes, 7 seconds especially uh silverplated bus bars and tin plated bus bars for uh data centers, auto components and others. 3:17 3 minutes, 17 seconds So a brief journey of our company founded in 1982 uh by my brother and my father. Uh we have been in copper 3:26 3 minutes, 26 seconds products. We started as uh copper commodity play. Then in 1988 we started foraying into value added 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds products and for the next 15 18 years we went into various value added products until 2017 we when we took over the 60 3:43 3 minutes, 43 seconds acre facility and got into the backward integration of copper recycling and for the next se six 7 years we were 3:51 3 minutes, 51 seconds concentrating on recycling of copper scrap imported from all over the world. 3:55 3 minutes, 55 seconds Over the last three years again now the focus has shifted back to value added products on one side as well as 4:02 4 minutes, 2 seconds increasing our capacity and capability on the backward side of scrap processing. 4:10 4 minutes, 10 seconds These are the various products which we are producing to and supplying to 500 uh uh customers. are across various sectors 4:19 4 minutes, 19 seconds whether it is auto electricals, panel building, switch gears, transformers and various other sectors solar and various other sectors. 4:32 4 minutes, 32 seconds Now I hand over the mic to Adet to take us through the uh presentation for the quarterly and annual performance of the company. 4:42 4 minutes, 42 seconds Hello everyone. So this is our financial year 26 results and this has been an outstanding year for us. For the first 4:49 4 minutes, 49 seconds time in our history, we have crossed 2,000 crores of revenue. For the first time in our history, we've also got an operational abitar of over 100 crores. 4:58 4 minutes, 58 seconds And for the first time, we have crossed 50 crores in PAT. These are some of our uh ratios and numbers for the FIA 26. 5:08 5 minutes, 8 seconds Our roe was 19.5% this year which uh compared to last year of 6.8% and an 5:16 5 minutes, 16 seconds ROCE was 16.3% this year compared to last year 6.84%. 5:23 5 minutes, 23 seconds So this is a small market snapshot that we've shown. uh the current price of BIL on 28th April stood at 20 277 rupees 5:33 5 minutes, 33 seconds which was a sharp increase uh since the end of the financial year. We have over almost doubled our price since March 5:40 5 minutes, 40 seconds 31st and this shows the confidence that the market has in us. Uh our one-year return for our share was around 285%. 5:51 5 minutes, 51 seconds Uh the PE ratio of the company today is 17.71%. 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds So how did Q4 stack up compared to the other quarters of the year? So Q4 was our best quarter for the financial year. 6:07 6 minutes, 7 seconds Uh we had revenue from operations of around 735 crores and profit after tax of around 18.5 crores. As you can see 6:15 6 minutes, 15 seconds the upward trend even though this was the standout year for us Q4 was much better than the comparing the rest of the year. In Q4 alone, we had an 6:24 6 minutes, 24 seconds operational AITA of 36 crores and a PAT of 18.5 crores. 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds Uh so this is our profit and loss statement for uh the four quarters and the last two financial years. Uh this 6:38 6 minutes, 38 seconds presentation has been uploaded on our website for anyone to take a look. 6:44 6 minutes, 44 seconds So let's talk a little bit about our margin and our margin profile. So since we have made a shift in our mindset of 6:51 6 minutes, 51 seconds going into value added products, our margins have increased a lot. Uh in Q3 and Q4, we've achieved around 5% EITA 7:01 7 minutes, 1 second and 2.2 and 2.5% of PAT. If you compare this to last year, our EITA has grown up 7:09 7 minutes, 9 seconds almost doubled and our PAT has gone up by 3.6 times. 7:16 7 minutes, 16 seconds Uh this is our balance sheet. Uh if anyone wants to take a look as one of the highlights is our total equity which 7:25 7 minutes, 25 seconds has gone from uh 193 crores in FI24 to 207 crores and then from 207 to 257 and 7:33 7 minutes, 33 seconds this increase in equity was not done through dilution. This was all done through retained earnings. 7:44 7 minutes, 44 seconds So we also wanted to talk a little bit about our working capital and uh why it has increased so much. So our working 7:51 7 minutes, 51 seconds capital has gone up from 17 157 crores to two uh 230 crores and this increase in working capital is proportional to 8:00 8 minutes our revenue. So there's no uh no reason to be concerned and our uh outside 8:07 8 minutes, 7 seconds liabilities compared to operational AITA has gone from 7.7 to 2.6 which is a very good sign and good for the future growth of the company. 8:19 8 minutes, 19 seconds So this is one of the highlights we wanted to talk about our product mix and AITA per kg. In Q1 we had only 52% of 8:27 8 minutes, 27 seconds value added products and due to uh demand from the market and due to increase in capacities of value added 8:34 8 minutes, 34 seconds products from Q1 to Q4 we've jumped almost 10% in our value added products. 8:40 8 minutes, 40 seconds Um and if you look at the growth of a company's revenue it was not only from increase in the price of copper but also 8:49 8 minutes, 49 seconds from increase in volumes. Last year we did around uh 18,000 metric tons of volume of copper sales which has gone up 8:57 8 minutes, 57 seconds by 34% to uh 246 uh 24,000 metric tons and our raita per kg for the year is 9:06 9 minutes, 6 seconds around 43 rupees which is very high compared to our peers and as you can see over the four quarters our raita per kg 9:14 9 minutes, 14 seconds has been trending upwards with the quarter 4 we achieved around 62 rupees per kg 9:23 9 minutes, 23 seconds So a little bit about copper industry and where it is headed in the future. So in 2023, India consumed around 26 9:31 9 minutes, 31 seconds million tons of copper. Uh the world consumed around 26 million tons of copper which is predicted to become 50 9:39 9 minutes, 39 seconds million tons by 2050. So this is uh almost doubling and India is expected to become the second largest copper 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds consuming economy. uh and this growth will mainly be driven by three sectors EV and automotive because uh EV requires 9:55 9 minutes, 55 seconds a lot more copper than regular cars. Uh power and electrification is also a big 10:02 10 minutes, 2 seconds growth factor and renewable energy and BIL is in the perfect position uh 10:10 10 minutes, 10 seconds perfect perfectly placed to tap into all these industries. We are already supplying to all these industries and as 10:17 10 minutes, 17 seconds these industries grow BIL and their value added products will be able to cater to them perfectly. 10:25 10 minutes, 25 seconds Another project we wanted to highlight was our plastic recycling project. So we are adopting this closed loop philosophy 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds in our company where anything that comes into our factories there has to be value addition done before it goes outside our factories. So when we import scrap, we 10:42 10 minutes, 42 seconds get a lot of byproducts with the scrap like uh plastics and aluminium. So right now we're planning to invest around 10 10:49 10 minutes, 49 seconds crores into plastic recycling where the cable waste comes in. We process them into different grades. We make granules 10:57 10 minutes, 57 seconds and with aluminium and other metals we make ingots and then we put them back into the supply chain. So this is going 11:05 11 minutes, 5 seconds to we're going to scale this up in over the next year. 11:10 11 minutes, 10 seconds So this is a brief summary of our financials. Um our operational AITA margin is 4.6 46%. 11:18 11 minutes, 18 seconds Our PAT margin is 2.1% and our P ratio is 17.71%. 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you. 11:28 11 minutes, 28 seconds Before I open it for questions, uh I would just like to um uh give you the current status of our corporate 11:36 11 minutes, 36 seconds restructuring. As has been earlier announced, the company is in a um uh structure of demerging into two sectors. 11:44 11 minutes, 44 seconds One is the real estate sector and one is the copper sector. Uh the current status of this process is that we have got 11:52 11 minutes, 52 seconds approvals from shareholders, creditors and other uh agencies. Those meetings have been held and completed in the month of March. Uh and the joint 12:01 12 minutes, 1 second petition has been filed before the honorable NCT Hyderabad bench with respect to the scheme of de merger. 12:08 12 minutes, 8 seconds uh and u once because all the approvals have been taken now the matter has been listed for hearing uh by the honorable 12:16 12 minutes, 16 seconds NCT on 9th June before which time we need to obtain no objection certificates from the register of companies uh 12:24 12 minutes, 24 seconds regional director official liquidator and the income tax authorities process is underway and we are hopeful that we'll achieve get all this NOC's and 12:33 12 minutes, 33 seconds place before the NCT on 9th of June when the next hearing is there after which the company will get demerged in two two separate verticals. Thank you. Now we open up it up to for questions. 12:48 12 minutes, 48 seconds Uh thank you to the management team for those comprehensive opening remarks. We will now begin the question and answer session. 12:55 12 minutes, 55 seconds Participants who wish to ask the question are uh requested to please raise their hands. 13:02 13 minutes, 2 seconds Uh we'll take the first question from Mr. Kushil Kasal. 13:20 13 minutes, 20 seconds Uh sir, please unmute yourself and ask the question. 13:33 13 minutes, 33 seconds Uh till that time we'll take the question from Mr. Shoubam Gupta. 13:42 13 minutes, 42 seconds Yeah Shoubam we can hear you sir. uh like just wanted to check like uh what is your future guidance in terms 13:49 13 minutes, 49 seconds of AITA margin and uh uh like uh with what pace the top line uh you will be 13:57 13 minutes, 57 seconds able to grow and apart from that like uh will you raise uh raise require any additional funding in future? 14:06 14 minutes, 6 seconds Uh thank you Shuam. Uh the uh we have achieved almost 5% AITA margin uh during the last two quarters. We are hopeful of 14:15 14 minutes, 15 seconds maintaining 5% Teta margin throughout the next year and on a increased topline. Our topline projection as in 14:22 14 minutes, 22 seconds earlier this thing has been uh uh project we are aiming for 3,000 crores in the year 9 um 2030 that is in 3 years 14:31 14 minutes, 31 seconds we are planning to reach 5,000 5,000 crores in the year 2030. We are in 5 years we are planning to uh 3 years we 14:38 14 minutes, 38 seconds are planning to double the turnover to 5,000 crores which translates into between 20 to 25% uh CAGGR. 25% CGR is our target for the next 3 to four years. 14:50 14 minutes, 50 seconds Okay sir. Thank you. Thank you sir. 14:55 14 minutes, 55 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the question from Mr. Kushal Kasal. 15:10 15 minutes, 10 seconds Uh sir, you're not audible. 15:19 15 minutes, 19 seconds Uh Miss Disha, please ask your question. 15:29 15 minutes, 29 seconds Yeah, Disha, we can hear you. Yeah, we can hear you. 15:33 15 minutes, 33 seconds Yes, thank you so much for the opportunity and congratulations for a good set of results, sir. So, firstly, uh you mentioned that u this 25% sort of 15:42 15 minutes, 42 seconds kagger that you mentioned and so this next year this 25% growth how much of this will be volume driven and how much of this will be price driven because 15:50 15 minutes, 50 seconds this year there was a huge benefit due to price increase price increase of copper. So, how do you see that panning out? 15:57 15 minutes, 57 seconds So this year roughly about 10% of our uh growth has been in price and 30% has 35% 16:04 16 minutes, 4 seconds has been in volume. Out of the 25% we are expecting 20% volume growth and 5% increase in uh prices. Between 15 to 20% 16:13 16 minutes, 13 seconds should be our volume growth minimum every year. Prices we cannot predict too much. 16:20 16 minutes, 20 seconds Correct. Correct. So basically the proportion will be 20 and the rest will be uh for price driven. Yeah. 16:27 16 minutes, 27 seconds Yeah. And just in terms of your capeex, you mentioned 10 CR capex for degree recycling. Any other capex? 16:33 16 minutes, 33 seconds I think one slide was mix missed out. Ad will just put that slide. Uh this has that capex. No 40 crores. 16:42 16 minutes, 42 seconds So we have proposed 40 crores capex in the last in the next 2 years. 16:49 16 minutes, 49 seconds Um I think somehow that slide must have miss been missed out. We are proposing about 40 crore scapex in the next 2 years. 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds So yeah, this slide was missed out. So this was uh this is our strategic initiatives that are going on and we've 17:05 17 minutes, 5 seconds planned. So a mix shift from commodity to value added products which we've been doing for the past 2 years. So we've 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds already reached around uh 62% at the end of quarter 4 and we are planning to get this up to 66% by the end of next year. 17:22 17 minutes, 22 seconds Uh we've gone from 30 metric 30,000 metric tons to 35,000 metric tons this year alone and we plan to increase that 17:30 17 minutes, 30 seconds as well. Uh so we've also added new heat recovery systems that increase the fuel efficiency and decrease our cycle times 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds on all our furnaces and um that is going live this year. So we've included we've started new products for AI data centers 17:47 17 minutes, 47 seconds which are silver and tincoated buzz bars. This is also an export product which we're already exporting to Canada and a few other places. And uh as de 17:56 17 minutes, 56 seconds merger as my dad has already mentioned we're planning to separate our company into a copper business and all our lands 18:03 18 minutes, 3 seconds into real estate so we can streamline both the processes and work on them and we also adding recycling verticals of aluminium and plastic. 18:14 18 minutes, 14 seconds Yeah. 18:14 18 minutes, 14 seconds Okay. We can go back to the questions and over here as mentioned we are planning to invest 40 crores over the next two years on capacities and new ventures. 18:25 18 minutes, 25 seconds Okay. Okay. That's very clear. So you mentioned about this silver and tin busbar the new product that we're starting for data centers. So just wanted to get your sense on what sort of 18:34 18 minutes, 34 seconds opportunity size do we see what sort of margins do we get here if you could elaborate that on that a bit. 18:40 18 minutes, 40 seconds uh so uh we are um this products will give us roughly about 10% AITA margins 18:49 18 minutes, 49 seconds and this go for AI AI data centers and other data centers all over the world we have started 18:56 18 minutes, 56 seconds exporting to Canada and US and also within various uh data centers in the country we are supplying this. 19:04 19 minutes, 4 seconds So how much how much contribution and revenues do we see from this segment for just the silver bearing and tin bearing 19:12 19 minutes, 12 seconds we have just started right now the contribution to our top line is very very small right now but going forward in the next 3 to 5 years we hope to 19:21 19 minutes, 21 seconds reach about 7 to 10% in the sectors but it will be a slow ramp up okay okay all right that's it from my 19:29 19 minutes, 29 seconds side thank you so much sir and all the best thank you uh thank you take The next question from Mr. Manan Sha. 19:42 19 minutes, 42 seconds Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah, man. We can hear you. 19:45 19 minutes, 45 seconds Hi. Hi, sir. Congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question is uh recently we read your article in the 19:52 19 minutes, 52 seconds newspaper where you mentioned about there's uh low availability of scrap copper scrap. So what is the on ground situation? Can you elaborate on that? 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah, I think that article was a little bit of uh over uh kill but what has happened is scrap is available from all 20:11 20 minutes, 11 seconds over the world. Um the scrap coming from Gulf which is of a short duration short 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds lead time material has suddenly dried up and um the material which is coming from 20:25 20 minutes, 25 seconds the rest of the world the shipping lines have been diverted because a lot of shipping lines have a transit point in Dubai or somewhere in the Gulf before 20:32 20 minutes, 32 seconds coming to India that has got delayed. uh having said that we are fortunate that our dependence on uh scrap from Gulf is 20:40 20 minutes, 40 seconds very very low compared to the rest of the industry that was more on industry focused point of view while I guess roughly about 25% of the scrap comes 20:48 20 minutes, 48 seconds from Gulf we are dependent on scrap from Gulf to less than 5% of our material comes from Gulf we get much more from 20:55 20 minutes, 55 seconds other parts of the world and just because you have asked this question I think I might as well say that our exposure to US is 35% % uh 21:04 21 minutes, 4 seconds which is the highest for a single country. Balance we have exposure to um Brazil uh we have exposure to uh 21:14 21 minutes, 14 seconds uh Europe that is United Kingdom, Australia, Colombia and Canada which are roughly about 7 to 8% each and Saudi 21:23 21 minutes, 23 seconds Arabia is way down ninth in our exposure list which is about 4%. So that's why we are less affected but I was talking more 21:30 21 minutes, 30 seconds in terms of the industry which is really affected because the place to get scrap immediately is Dubai and Saudi which has been badly affected. 21:40 21 minutes, 40 seconds Okay. So after the war situation we can assume that the availability will go to normal years right? 21:46 21 minutes, 46 seconds Yes. Yes. I mean even now we are not very badly affected. There is some effect of the war but in terms of availability the industry is affected much more than we are. 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you. And uh my second question is uh why is our pledge percentage so high? 96%. Sorry I didn't get that. 22:04 22 minutes, 4 seconds Why is our pledge percentage so high? 96%. 22:07 22 minutes, 7 seconds Pledge pledge pledge of what? We don't of your shares own shares. 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds Nothing ret we we have very small pledge of my 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds shares which have been given to MCX as security for our hedging. 22:26 22 minutes, 26 seconds Okay. There is no pledge given to banks for raising of funds. Uh there is zero percentage there. A small percentage of my personal shareholding has been given 22:34 22 minutes, 34 seconds to MCX which is less than 5%. Which is less than 5%. 22:39 22 minutes, 39 seconds Okay. So there might be some uh error. I I think it must be reverse. Uh it must be 96 must be the unpledged one. I think where have you seen that? We might have to correct it. 22:48 22 minutes, 48 seconds Even even screener shows 96% pledge. 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds Okay. We'll get that checked up and corrected. Okay. Thank you so much screen. 23:00 23 minutes Uh thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. Weber Mishra. Yeah Weber we can hear you. 23:09 23 minutes, 9 seconds Uh hello sir. Uh congratulations for the very very strong set of uh numbers. 23:14 23 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you. Mostly my questions have been answered sir. Actually I was also going to ask about that article I read. So I was a bit worried now you have cleared 23:21 23 minutes, 21 seconds it. Uh one question sir uh regarding the promoter holding I have been observing that for the last two quarters in 23:29 23 minutes, 29 seconds December and this March I think 5% kind of promoter shareholding has been reduced and in December I think 5%. So 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds but you have not raised any uh company has not raised any funds and all so has there have there been any selling in the 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds open market from the promoter side why has it reduced? Yeah. So, uh the December quarter uh is mainly wrongly 23:51 23 minutes, 51 seconds reported. What shares I told you I had pledged to uh the stock uh the MCX has longly been reported as sold. 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second Whereas in the this current quarter there has been a small share sale of shares from the promoters to raise a little personal money for some of the 24:10 24 minutes, 10 seconds promoters. But in the December quarter, the main 5% which is there is a pledge not a sale. Okay. So, so could you 24:18 24 minutes, 18 seconds please get it I mean corrected on the Yeah. Yeah. We have sent already three four letters. I think it's al already there in our website and other places. 24:25 24 minutes, 25 seconds We are finding it difficult to get that uh December one corrected. Okay. Okay. All right. No issue sir. Thank you. And sir, one more question. 24:32 24 minutes, 32 seconds Any plans about lead recycling going ahead? Have you finalized anything on that? 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds No, we were planning to look at various types of recycling which was there. Lead recycling for the time being we have dropped it. At least for the next one 24:46 24 minutes, 46 seconds one and a half years we are not looking at lead. 24:50 24 minutes, 50 seconds All right. Answer plastic recycling plan of going from 150 capacity to 500. Is that intact in? 24:56 24 minutes, 56 seconds Yes. In fact Adat has just mentioned that is on uh we are actively looking at increasing the plastic recycling but uh 25:05 25 minutes, 5 seconds just to be very clear we are not looking at sourcing local plastics. It is only the plastics which comes along with the cable in our imports which we want to recycle and make value added products. 25:17 25 minutes, 17 seconds We are not going to source any plastic scrap. There's only recycling of scrap which comes along with our copper. 25:25 25 minutes, 25 seconds Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much sir and all the best for the future. It's very nice to see companies scaling so well. Thank you. Thank you. 25:32 25 minutes, 32 seconds Thank you so much. Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. Pratik Shasta. 25:44 25 minutes, 44 seconds Hello sir. Uh again congratulations on a great set of number and hoping the same will continue in future. Thank you. 25:51 25 minutes, 51 seconds Question is just uh two days back ministry of mines has approved 58 entities which are eligible for this incentive scheme for promotion of 25:59 25 minutes, 59 seconds critical mineral recycling. I see some crap recesses list also names are also in the list 26:06 26 minutes, 6 seconds like waste eco recyclers bahi recycling are you guys also there or in conversation with ministry of minds. 26:16 26 minutes, 16 seconds Yes we are in touch with JNRDC and uh the chief there we are still working out 26:23 26 minutes, 23 seconds what is uh the right way to approach them for any of such help. We are in touch with JNRTC in uh Nagpur who is the 26:32 26 minutes, 32 seconds nodal agency for this scheme but we have still not given any uh concrete proposal for this scheme. We are already actively 26:40 26 minutes, 40 seconds considering some ideas but not yet in the process. 26:44 26 minutes, 44 seconds Got it. And sir uh you mentioned you are not going to get into the lead recycling. Is there any reason or or or let me ask also put a question in the 26:53 26 minutes, 53 seconds other way. Apart from copper and plastics, is there any other high margin recycling businesses out there where which you know we can participate in? 27:03 27 minutes, 3 seconds So what has happened is the three major red lead recyclers in the country are all getting into copper and copper value added products. 27:11 27 minutes, 11 seconds Mhm. 27:11 27 minutes, 11 seconds So I felt that probably our area is more uh practical and reliable than lead recycling. 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds Right sir. Right. and any other more higher margin business than uh copper and plastic out there. 27:27 27 minutes, 27 seconds No, the higher margin business will be various uh copper value added products like has been mentioned we have 500 customers across various sectors switch 27:36 27 minutes, 36 seconds gears uh transformers autos. So we see a lot of opportunity for giving more service to the same 27:44 27 minutes, 44 seconds customers with higher value addition. So we are always on the lookout of more value added products in copper. That is our primary focus because we have our 27:53 27 minutes, 53 seconds expertise in copper for the last 40 years. We want to capitalize on that. 27:58 27 minutes, 58 seconds Whereas we will be looking at plastic and aluminium in a small way to ensure that whatever we are getting we add some 28:05 28 minutes, 5 seconds value to the scrap which we are already having. 28:08 28 minutes, 8 seconds Thank you sir. Yeah let's hope we continue on our journey on the higher value added products and up the value chain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you sir. 28:17 28 minutes, 17 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Vidanchal. 28:28 28 minutes, 28 seconds Oh am I? Yeah Vanch. Yeah Vanch we can hear you. 28:32 28 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah sir. My first question is regarding primary production. You know we know that world is going through concentrate shortages you know which is even 28:40 28 minutes, 40 seconds projected to get even worse with time and even Adani's catch copper smelter is having difficulty in sourcing concentrate. So uh do you think this gap 28:50 28 minutes, 50 seconds in demand and supply has to be met by recycled copper I think there is no doubt about that in fact all the primary producers are also 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds looking at secondary uh routes of getting copper. Um so what has happened is uh if we need to understand this a 29:06 29 minutes, 6 seconds little more in detail uh sulfuric acid is a byproduct of making uh primary copper and uh that price being very high 29:15 29 minutes, 15 seconds in uh China. We see that most of the refining of uh copper primary oes is 29:23 29 minutes, 23 seconds going to China at a very very competitive price and unless the manufacturer of primary products can 29:30 29 minutes, 30 seconds make a lot of money on the byproducts whether it is sulfur or gold or silver they cannot survive. So this trend is 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds going to continue especially because the ore qualities across the world is coming down. The availability um while right 29:46 29 minutes, 46 seconds now there is no shortage for the next 2 or 3 years for copper but we foresee a big shortage coming after 3 or 4 years 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds and there is no other way but to ensure that we recycle and recycle more efficiently and much better. 30:02 30 minutes, 2 seconds Thank you. Thank you. So my second question is on EPR. So my understanding is that OEMs now have a minimum recycled 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds content mandate and that threshold will rise every year from now and I read somewhere that Bhaginagar is among the 30:18 30 minutes, 18 seconds first in India's copper industry to integrate APR. So can you throw some light on how this all APR thing will work and how this will benefit us? 30:27 30 minutes, 27 seconds So um I think there was a mis this thing that we are the first. Yes, we APR is on our radar. EPR has been notified only on 30:35 30 minutes, 35 seconds April 1st of this year. We are ready to provide EPR services to manufacturers because we have been recycling and also 30:42 30 minutes, 42 seconds making value added products. So in that way we are the best position to take advantage of the EPR policy. However, we are not first of the block because EPR 30:51 30 minutes, 51 seconds in copper has still not started at at least until April 1st of this year. And once this year is over, very small 30:58 30 minutes, 58 seconds percentages of copper will come under EPR and slowly keep going up year on year. But yes, it is going to be a new 31:05 31 minutes, 5 seconds revenue stream. It is a good advantage for us. More importantly, EPR also makes uh the customer aware of the importance 31:15 31 minutes, 15 seconds of using recycled copper. So that is the reason APR is going to be important. But for this financial year and maybe even 31:22 31 minutes, 22 seconds for the next financial year it will not have material impact on the uh figures of Bhagya but being in that sector really gives us an edge for the future. 31:33 31 minutes, 33 seconds Okay. Okay sir. Thank you. So my last question is on AITA pattern. So currently we are doing 62,000. Do you think this 62,000 uh will sustain and 31:41 31 minutes, 41 seconds will grow from here or know in Q1 we might again fall back? Uh any any guidance on that? So we are targeting to maintain 5%. 31:50 31 minutes, 50 seconds Which uh is there and I think we are quite confident of maintaining 5%. Uh however it is quite difficult for me to 31:58 31 minutes, 58 seconds say that yes we will grow at the same rate at which we have grown last year. 32:02 32 minutes, 2 seconds If we maintain 5% I think we should be happy as a company. 32:05 32 minutes, 5 seconds Uh sir I was talking about EITN. So EITA per 5% comes to about 62 rupees. 32:11 32 minutes, 11 seconds I'm looking uh at 5% at current market prices of copper it comes to about 60 to 65 rupees. I'm not looking at it growing 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds much faster than the copper prices. If the copper prices go up but by another 10% maybe my AITA per ton also will go up by 10%. 32:27 32 minutes, 27 seconds Okay. So but a realization for FY26 was 963 you know and current copper price is 1300. So can we expect that next year 32:35 32 minutes, 35 seconds without any volume growth also we we will have uh 30 to 35% of kind of growth in top line 32:42 32 minutes, 42 seconds 25%. Yes. Uh so if you see the last quarter we did 735 crores. So even without any u uh further growth in 32:51 32 minutes, 51 seconds volume and the same prices of copper considered we should be 28 to 2900 without any growth in volume. 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds So assuming the same price of copper again. 33:02 33 minutes, 2 seconds Okay. So you mean that if you do 20 25% volume growth we could look 40 50% also number you that's that's a possibility on table correct 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds correct if this uh we are looking at 20% volume growth compounded with whatever the price growth realization we can get. 33:16 33 minutes, 16 seconds Thank you. Thank you so much sir. Thank you so much sir. So just one last you know one last request you know so the the investor presentation that was 33:24 33 minutes, 24 seconds uploaded on exchange you know it's not very clear you know I guess it was made by some AI tool or not. So can you request your IR agency to you know upload a clear and more vivid investor 33:32 33 minutes, 32 seconds presentation? Uh that's final request from my side. Thank you sir. Okay we'll do that. 33:43 33 minutes, 43 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question for uh we'll take the next question from Mr. 33:54 33 minutes, 54 seconds Hey thank thank you for the opportunity sir. My first question is on the AITA button as you said we will be maintaining the 5%. So when I look at 34:02 34 minutes, 2 seconds your peers let's say precision and all the leaders in the industry doing some 38,000 to 40,000 aa per turn right and 34:11 34 minutes, 11 seconds only one player is doing 62,000 aa per turn and the reason behind that is you know they are into more higher KV and 34:17 34 minutes, 17 seconds for higher KV requires more you know uh district uh PGCL and you know the more 34:26 34 minutes, 26 seconds utilities gets better uh Hello. Yeah, please tell me. 34:32 34 minutes, 32 seconds Yes. So, I was asking on the VITA button. My question is key when I look at the AITA button, you are saying 62,000. 34:39 34 minutes, 39 seconds There's only one player doing the this amount of aa button. So, I just wanted to know what is the reason and if I look at the value added, it's only still 40%. 34:48 34 minutes, 48 seconds So, what has been the change which has led to such a vict? 34:54 34 minutes, 54 seconds So, uh like I said, we are doing both recycling as well as value added. So if you look at a company like precision which you have mentioned they are doing 35:03 35 minutes, 3 seconds uh mainly the finished products now they are getting into recycling and if you look at other my other peers who are 35:10 35 minutes, 10 seconds already in recycling um they are already having a margins of over 5%. 35:17 35 minutes, 17 seconds Okay got it the pure recycling companies who are now getting into value added they are also having about 5% value added or more AITA uh margins. 35:28 35 minutes, 28 seconds Got it. And so my second question is on the plastic and aluminium recycling you are trying to get into. So when we see 35:35 35 minutes, 35 seconds other leaders or recycling leader so they are not able to you know hedge you are able to hedge copper or lead but they are not able to hedge plastic or 35:43 35 minutes, 43 seconds aluminium. So due to that there is a volatility in their you know profit and loss statement and their margins are getting affected. So just wanted to get 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds the rational why are we you know going in such a space you know where there's not much volume if I look at as compared 36:00 36 minutes to copper or let's say other non-perish metal again the point is we get a lot of plastic waste which is getting generated 36:08 36 minutes, 8 seconds in our plant our idea is not to source plastic waste or even aluminium waste this is all getting generated out of the 36:15 36 minutes, 15 seconds cables which we get into the factory along with our copper so we are only planning to ensure that we get some 36:22 36 minutes, 22 seconds additional value addition of the scrap plastic and the aluminum which we get. 36:27 36 minutes, 27 seconds We are not planning to buy aluminium or plastic scrap to recycle them. So we really won't be uh very much exposed to 36:35 36 minutes, 35 seconds the LM variations of uh either plastic or aluminum because most of them come as byproducts in our cable. 36:42 36 minutes, 42 seconds Okay, got it. And so on the payable days I have seen like all the other some of their peers as well copper is bought on 36:50 36 minutes, 50 seconds cash right but when I see some of the other peers like let's say precision only they use LC which have you know led to the increase in payable days and the 36:59 36 minutes, 59 seconds it is shown as operating cash flow positive. So just wanted to get your sense when can we you know use LC as a 37:06 37 minutes, 6 seconds tool for increasing our operating cash flow. 37:11 37 minutes, 11 seconds So SPLC is being used by some of my peers. Somehow I've not been finding it uh very um advantageous and I didn't 37:20 37 minutes, 20 seconds want to take uh exposure on forex or other places and uh even my suppliers 37:28 37 minutes, 28 seconds are a little resistant in working on LC's. 37:32 37 minutes, 32 seconds So we might get into SBLC sometime in the this year depending on how the um 37:39 37 minutes, 39 seconds metrics are for the interest rate and other things but that is somewhere in the future but right now we are not doing anything on that and yes that is increasing our operating cycle. 37:51 37 minutes, 51 seconds Got it. And just last question so when is whenever there is an increase in price of let's say copper your working capital requirement increases which is 37:58 37 minutes, 58 seconds indirectly leads to the higher interest cost right. So just wanted to get the sense from your customer let's say are 38:05 38 minutes, 5 seconds you able to you know pass on the increase in prices or the IITA button stays consistent because you know when I 38:13 38 minutes, 13 seconds have seen the industry your some of the peers maintain same ITA button but due to the increase in price of copper you 38:21 38 minutes, 21 seconds know the interest cost increases so indirectly your pad growth is less than your IITA growth. Yeah, what you 38:28 38 minutes, 28 seconds what you say is quite right. Uh we have a pass through mechanism of the copper prices to the finished products. 38:35 38 minutes, 35 seconds However, um passing on the additional EITA per ton is a little bit of a stretch and for that we need to get into 38:43 38 minutes, 43 seconds more and more value added products either on the finished good side or to ensure that our backward integration becomes more efficient in terms of 38:51 38 minutes, 51 seconds recycling our material in a much better way. Um the pass on is typically only for the price increase not the 38:58 38 minutes, 58 seconds additional margin. You are absolutely right. 39:02 39 minutes, 2 seconds Got it. Thank you. Thank you sir. That's from my side and best of luck. Thank you. 39:09 39 minutes, 9 seconds Thank you. We'll take the next question from Mr. Manancha. 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds Uh sir just some follow-up questions. So I've seen that uh many of the other copper recyclers have also expanded 39:26 39 minutes, 26 seconds capacity. Even Adani and Hindalo are coming live with their smelters. 39:33 39 minutes, 33 seconds So not right now but do we see over capacity risk or margin compression in copper over the next 2 3 years? 39:41 39 minutes, 41 seconds the uh the scrap recycling business has always been quite fragmented and there 39:47 39 minutes, 47 seconds will always be u competition. Um yes, Adani and Hindalo announcing that 39:55 39 minutes, 55 seconds they'll come into recycling is also going to be a uh an issue going forward in future because one of the biggest challenges in recycling is also sourcing. 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds My biggest advantage in this is we've been in this business for a very very long time and we are in copper business for 40 years and that has given us a 40:13 40 minutes, 13 seconds very good edge in sourcing material all over the world and like I said we don't even concentrate on the most obvious 40:20 40 minutes, 20 seconds source which is Gulf. Most of the people who source copper scrap get it from Gulf whereas our requirement there is only 40:27 40 minutes, 27 seconds 4%. we have deep uh inroads into uh North America, South America, Canada, Europe in the advanced countries. So we 40:36 40 minutes, 36 seconds hope that we'll be able to maintain the competitive advantage of over all the newcomers. And like we have been discussing the copper business is going 40:45 40 minutes, 45 seconds to explode like nobody's business. Adwat had mentioned that we'll become the second biggest consumer of the co of copper in the world. So while 40:54 40 minutes, 54 seconds competition is growing, the market is growing much faster. That is our view on the market. 40:59 40 minutes, 59 seconds Okay. So you are confident on uh on your business. Okay. Okay. And my second question is if you could share some 41:08 41 minutes, 8 seconds uh IITA per kilo or gross margins per kilo for your each product or commodity products like copper bus bars and copper rods and etc. 41:17 41 minutes, 17 seconds So um as uh has been given the range is very 41:24 41 minutes, 24 seconds very high and again within the range depending on the customer uh customization which is done for various 41:31 41 minutes, 31 seconds products it becomes very very difficult for me to say that okay in copper bus bar I'm going to get this because in copper bus bar again we have sizes 41:40 41 minutes, 40 seconds varying from 15 mm to 300 mm and each of them will have a different value addition depending on the customer uh 41:49 41 minutes, 49 seconds customer focus. But having said that um suff the maximum value added products of 41:57 41 minutes, 57 seconds around 10% and above are auto components. Silverbearing bus bars, tin bearing bus bars are solar products are 42:05 42 minutes, 5 seconds the ones which have the highest and the lowest are basically copper ingots which are exported to China and uh copper rods which are given to our cable industry. 42:20 42 minutes, 20 seconds Okay, thank you so much for the clarity sir. 42:25 42 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. Mates. 42:32 42 minutes, 32 seconds Hi, good afternoon. Congratulations on the fantastic set of numbers. I have a couple of questions to the management. 42:39 42 minutes, 39 seconds Uh since we've we are now experiencing a exponential growth in the entire sector. 42:46 42 minutes, 46 seconds Are we planning to add some professionals in the management at a senior level like a CEO, CFO, CO etc? 42:54 42 minutes, 54 seconds So uh if you see our management structure which has been put in our uh last year's last quarter's u earning 43:02 43 minutes, 2 seconds report uh we have very very high level of uh professionalization. 43:07 43 minutes, 7 seconds Uh so each of our plants are headed by a director who's um in charge of the entire plant and the entire plant 43:14 43 minutes, 14 seconds reports to them. Um we have so we have two technical directors at two plants. 43:20 43 minutes, 20 seconds Then we have a marketing director who takes care of the entire marketing of the team. We have Surenda Bhtoria who's a CFO who's been with the company for 43:28 43 minutes, 28 seconds over 20 years with CA with 20 years experience. We have Rahul who has just joined us as a finance manager. So in the working group only two of us me and Adwat are from the family. 43:40 43 minutes, 40 seconds Okay. Thank you. Uh and second uh despite having uh all of these uh team in place, why are there so many issues 43:48 43 minutes, 48 seconds in reporting to platforms like a screener or the BSCNSE? Because that very uh you know it affects investors 43:56 43 minutes, 56 seconds like us when there are wrong figures reported there like a 96% pledge of the promoter is a very bad uh signal to the 44:06 44 minutes, 6 seconds market. Right. So uh I uh uh actually none of our people had uh flagged this 44:13 44 minutes, 13 seconds 96% but we are aware of that 5% pledge which I which I had done in uh December. 44:19 44 minutes, 19 seconds If you are aware at that time the price of copper had suddenly gone up and we needed to pledge some more uh shares to the stock exchange and I had given my 44:28 44 minutes, 28 seconds personal pledge that was taken as safe by some reason and in spite of repeated reminders to the exchange they have not corrected it. we'll get that corrected 44:35 44 minutes, 35 seconds and this pledge quantity also we'll ensure that this is corrected as soon as it can be done but uh suffice it to say 44:43 44 minutes, 43 seconds that other than the small pledge given for uh stock uh I mean MCX hedging no stocks have been pledged to any of the 44:51 44 minutes, 51 seconds banks okay uh my last question is with respect to competitors we mentioned many competitors so competit competition from 45:00 45 minutes recyclers like a JN resource their margins seem to be much higher despite not being in value added products and 45:09 45 minutes, 9 seconds getting into copper value added products only. Now why are we not able to match their margins? 45:17 45 minutes, 17 seconds Uh so uh I I just want to uh juapose your this thing with uh earlier. I think 45:24 45 minutes, 24 seconds there is an emergency alert all over India. So just just hold on for a second. 45:37 45 minutes, 37 seconds One second. Just hold on. 45:48 45 minutes, 48 seconds Yeah. So there was an I don't know if it is all over India but in Hyderabad there was a alert for emergency which was put 45:56 45 minutes, 56 seconds on silent phones also which has come on all our phones. So that's why it stopped. So uh it's very interesting that some people are saying that my AITA 46:03 46 minutes, 3 seconds margin is too low and some people are saying my AITA margin is too high. Um but my personal feeling is that 5% is a 46:10 46 minutes, 10 seconds very very good AITA margin. Um the business which we are in 4 and a half to 5% is a good AIA margin and we hope to 46:19 46 minutes, 19 seconds maintain and try to keep it closer to 5% rather than uh anywhere else. Uh 46:27 46 minutes, 27 seconds I know Jane and others are getting into copper value added products and they have a much more different divergent u 46:36 46 minutes, 36 seconds product mix. So I really don't know how much they are making in copper and how much they are making in other products. 46:42 46 minutes, 42 seconds So I can't com comment on uh they are quoting they quoting 62 uh on copper as well despite not being in 46:50 46 minutes, 50 seconds value added products. So are we missing somewhere on the procurement side since we are also doing buzz bars but they 46:57 46 minutes, 57 seconds have only put up all of those plants now but even their previous quarter calls they claim 62 per kg as their eida 47:05 47 minutes, 5 seconds margins since we're also recycling and they're also recycling so where is there something which we're missing 47:12 47 minutes, 12 seconds so uh so I really don't know but uh since the figure is 62 for copper for us also I 47:20 47 minutes, 20 seconds think that is where I feel is the right uh um margin in this. Uh with regards to 47:27 47 minutes, 27 seconds sourcing, more or less our prices are same unless uh the sourcing is done with advanced payment. If advanced payment is 47:35 47 minutes, 35 seconds done, the prices are lower for copper scrap. Other than that the sourcing prices across uh the top uh few clients in India will be more or less the same. 47:46 47 minutes, 46 seconds It cannot be much more different. 47:48 47 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. Thank you. Best of luck to the team for the next. Thank you. Thank you. 47:56 47 minutes, 56 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. Satish Patnak. 48:04 48 minutes, 4 seconds Good morning sir. Am I audible? Yes Satish I can hear you. 48:08 48 minutes, 8 seconds Uh sir just wanted to understand the the demerging part which is on the cards. 48:13 48 minutes, 13 seconds Okay. Uh so uh and related to what the guidance you have given of 5,000 KES in 48:20 48 minutes, 20 seconds next 3 to four years. So uh we have uh achieved uh 2378 48:27 48 minutes, 27 seconds revenue of revenue this year. That's right sir. That's right. 48:32 48 minutes, 32 seconds So uh how much of that has come from copper sir? 48:37 48 minutes, 37 seconds Almost everything. Um do you have the figure? I think uh non-copper is less than 10 crores. 48:48 48 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. Okay. And uh the guidance that you have given of 5,000 that is purely that is purely for the uh copper part. 48:58 48 minutes, 58 seconds Purely for copper purely for copper. Okay. 49:03 49 minutes, 3 seconds Uh market. 49:06 49 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah. It's purely from copper. The 5,000 crores guidance is for purely copper. 49:10 49 minutes, 10 seconds the demerge company which will have only the copper business will reach 5,000 crores in 3 years. 49:16 49 minutes, 16 seconds Okay sir. And uh sir uh I know it is a very uh that would be a very long answer. Uh just try to understand if you 49:24 49 minutes, 24 seconds can say that in very short uh the reason for this de merger sir. I'm new to this company. I'm hearing that from last call. 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So, so uh if you know that this company is a legacy company which is there for the last uh 40 plus years 49:41 49 minutes, 41 seconds and uh we have Bhagan India which is a holding company and Bhagya copper which is a subsidiary which is doing copper 49:48 49 minutes, 48 seconds business. Bhagyanagar India has a lot of land parcels which are already in the company and we also have some windmills. 49:56 49 minutes, 56 seconds So we thought that going forward when we want to do a lot of focus on the copper business, we are planning to have a 50:04 50 minutes, 4 seconds standalone co company which will have nothing other than copper business. 50:08 50 minutes, 8 seconds There is no um sort of distraction of the real estate or the windmills. 50:13 50 minutes, 13 seconds Whereas the other company Bhagyanagar India which will remain will have real estate and that company can then concentrate on development of real 50:20 50 minutes, 20 seconds estate without having the complication of the copper business in it. Okay sir. Okay sir. I'll read more sir. 50:29 50 minutes, 29 seconds I'll come back to you. Uh yeah if question. Thank you so much. Welcome. 50:36 50 minutes, 36 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. N. Modi. 50:52 50 minutes, 52 seconds Modi. you uh need to unmute Mr. Modi. 51:04 51 minutes, 4 seconds Uh in the meantime, let's take the question to Mr. Kushal Kasan. 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds You can hear now finally we can hear you. 51:16 51 minutes, 16 seconds Yes, finally third time. So, thank you so much for for taking my questions again. Uh Sir I have many questions 51:24 51 minutes, 24 seconds actually and just to begin with your IIDA per ton is an interesting number now uh you're saying that roughly 62 per kg which means 62,000 51:32 51 minutes, 32 seconds uh eida per ton uh so in the entire industry everyone is below that number uh there's only one company called KSH 51:41 51 minutes, 41 seconds international which is above that number so I just wanted to I just wanted to understand key uh how 51:50 51 minutes, 50 seconds much of this ITA is due to recycling cycling business and how much of this is due to our value added products if you can maybe separate. 51:58 51 minutes, 58 seconds Very difficult to very difficult to break up because you know across product uh we have about 15 to 20 product uh 52:05 52 minutes, 5 seconds mixes and um the content of recycled copper in various uh products is different. So very difficult to break it 52:13 52 minutes, 13 seconds up but uh roughly about 5% the beta 62 rupees a kg based on 1200 rupees copper price I think is sustainable for us 52:22 52 minutes, 22 seconds given that uh there are a lot of value added products which we are making. 52:27 52 minutes, 27 seconds Understood sir. So 500 uh means 50,000 you are saying is sustainable. 52:31 52 minutes, 31 seconds 5% of the price which is 60 rupees a king. 52:35 52 minutes, 35 seconds Understood. Understood. Okay. Got it. Uh second question is on the products which we are making. So I understand we are making bus bars and in the BPD we are 52:44 52 minutes, 44 seconds saying that I think 300 mm we are the only player also silverplated bus bars which are used in data centers. So just 52:51 52 minutes, 51 seconds wanted to understand uh how are these products unique uh do we have any uh you know certification requirements for 52:59 52 minutes, 59 seconds launching these products. Uh I have not seen these products much in some other company especially the silverplated one. 53:06 53 minutes, 6 seconds And uh is there any OEM lock in uh tie up with OEM or long-term contract? Uh why will other people not come in these products? 53:16 53 minutes, 16 seconds So uh there are a lot of appro approvals. Uh for each of the product we have a different approval. For some it is power grids, for some it is uh the 53:24 53 minutes, 24 seconds international approving authority for especially for the silverplated bus bars. So uh for various uh products we 53:32 53 minutes, 32 seconds have various approvals. I won't say that uh the um entry barriers are too high but for products like our auto 53:40 53 minutes, 40 seconds electricals we have a long-term tie up with the customers for for the last 20 years and maybe for the next 10 or 15 years. For some products it is uh order 53:49 53 minutes, 49 seconds by order basis. For some products it's just a question of repeat order because of the ease of uh supplies. So we are 53:56 53 minutes, 56 seconds locked into a lot of value chains with our OEMs for a very very long period of time. So even if we don't have any 54:03 54 minutes, 3 seconds written or a specific agreement, it is just goes without saying because of the long-term uh good relations which we maintain with all our customers. 54:16 54 minutes, 16 seconds Understood. Okay. Okay. But you're saying for uh silverplated uh bus bars there's not much uh I mean competition 54:25 54 minutes, 25 seconds can come in tomorrow. competition can come in because uh it's not rocket science but at the same time it is not a 54:31 54 minutes, 31 seconds very easy product to make and any any um uh rejection will be very very expensive because the silver goes waste. 54:42 54 minutes, 42 seconds Got it. Understood. Fair enough. Uh last question on on plastic metal recycling which we are doing a lot which we are 54:50 54 minutes, 50 seconds saying that these things come along with copper and hence we are doing recycling. 54:54 54 minutes, 54 seconds Have we thought about any uh any return uh threshold when we invest 55:02 55 minutes, 2 seconds in this project? Because this looks like something beyond our current copper work and maybe for you it makes sense but uh 55:09 55 minutes, 9 seconds for shareholders is it approved or or margin wise will it make sense in the overall scheme of thing uh on the copper side if you compare that? 55:20 55 minutes, 20 seconds Yes. I mean see it will not add too much to the top line to be frank but it is going to be very predative because the 55:28 55 minutes, 28 seconds uh some something which I'm selling for 10 rupees if I can make it 40 rupees a kilo it makes a lot of sense for 55:36 55 minutes, 36 seconds plastics but then we are also investing roughly 10 crores in that project and uh maybe 55:43 55 minutes, 43 seconds the payback of that 10 cr will be will be on a lower side versus our current copper business. I mean uh um typically 55:51 55 minutes, 51 seconds for this type of investments we look at between 12 and 15 months payback not 3 years or 5 years. 56:00 56 minutes Okay. 56:01 56 minutes, 1 second It's going to be very yeah it's going to be very very attractive but topline is not really going to be very high 56:09 56 minutes, 9 seconds but margins will be high and you are saying margins will be very high. Yeah that's right. 56:14 56 minutes, 14 seconds Okay understood. Makes sense. Lastly on uh I know we are demerging this copper business. So all this uh metal and 56:22 56 minutes, 22 seconds plastic recycling will go away with the copper business itself. 56:25 56 minutes, 25 seconds Yeah, that's right. Other than real estate and uh the windmills, everything will remain in the copper business because this is coming with copper scrap. 56:35 56 minutes, 35 seconds Got it. Got it. Fair enough. So do we have any estimation of you know uh market valuation of the real estate business separately and then the copper 56:43 56 minutes, 43 seconds business separately because currently our market cap is uh you know roughly around 8 860 crores. So how much market 56:50 56 minutes, 50 seconds cap do you assign to the real estate business when when you demerge? I mean this is a difficult question to answer but maybe if you can. 56:56 56 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah it's you know it's very difficult for me to say what is the market cap. 57:00 57 minutes Let me tell you this uh figure. The real estate value in books is roughly about 29 crores and um the value is at least 57:09 57 minutes, 9 seconds at least 10 times maybe 20 times I don't know how much the real estate value to assign is quite uh not so easy. 57:20 57 minutes, 20 seconds So when you demerge uh I mean there will be some market cap reduction in the copper business right? uh uh can you 57:28 57 minutes, 28 seconds indicate how much market cap will get reduced from the demerged entity? 57:32 57 minutes, 32 seconds Given the market discounting of real estate, I don't think there will be any reduction in market cap for the copper company. Whereas the real estate company 57:40 57 minutes, 40 seconds will create a new market cap for itself based on the real estate value. I'm not expecting any reduction in market cap of the copper company because that's all 57:49 57 minutes, 49 seconds based on the PE or the current earnings of the company and obviously current earnings are 100% copper. 57:56 57 minutes, 56 seconds That's right. 57:58 57 minutes, 58 seconds Fair enough sir. Thank you so much for answering all my questions. Thank you. Welcome. 58:05 58 minutes, 5 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. Punit Mittal. 58:12 58 minutes, 12 seconds Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. 58:15 58 minutes, 15 seconds Uh sir, I have two or three questions. One is the guidance that you've given of 5,000 K in next three years. Uh are you 58:25 58 minutes, 25 seconds basing that on the assumption of the current copper prices? Uh and how much of that growth you see is value versus volume. 58:34 58 minutes, 34 seconds So we we are estimating a conservative 5% increase in the copper prices year on year. 58:42 58 minutes, 42 seconds Okay. Uh got it. Second question. Uh from your commentary, it clearly seems 58:48 58 minutes, 48 seconds that you're very very bullish on this uh copper recycling business and you see there's going to be a shortage on copper 58:56 58 minutes, 56 seconds uh uh going forward. Why would you not be more aggressive in terms of expansion whether organic in organic position and 59:05 59 minutes, 5 seconds so forth? Because it seems to be a a pretty incredible fortune in front of you. 59:11 59 minutes, 11 seconds Doubling of turnover in three years is aggressive enough for me. 59:16 59 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. Uh the third and the final question on the real estate side, can you elaborate some plan on what do you 59:24 59 minutes, 24 seconds have in the pipeline in terms of the real estate development uh and so forth, right? Naturally, we all focusing on the cost of business, 59:32 59 minutes, 32 seconds but at least that there's tremendous value in the real estate as well. So, it'll be good to know what what what are your plans there. So uh we have three 59:40 59 minutes, 40 seconds parcel three major parcels of real estate in uh the company. One is 4 acres in a area called Nacharam. One is a 4 59:47 59 minutes, 47 seconds and 1/2 acres in a area called Upal and around 5 acres in a area known as Hardware Park. As of now, there is only 59:56 59 minutes, 56 seconds active consideration of the 4 and 1/2 acres in Up which is very close to the stadium where we are looking at various 1:00:03 1 hour, 3 seconds options of either developing that area or give it giving it on joint development to somebody where a residential area can come up. Regarding 1:00:12 1 hour, 12 seconds the other two parcels, we have not yet decided as to what is to be done. Once the company de merges, I think those three parcels will be taken separately and decided accordingly. 1:00:22 1 hour, 22 seconds uh for the first parcels do you have any timeline in terms of when would you make a decision and when the the uh project would start? 1:00:31 1 hour, 31 seconds So uh this is in Hyderabad very close to the center of Hyderabad. There is a new policy of the government known as 1:00:38 1 hour, 38 seconds Hyderabad industrial land transformation. 1:00:41 1 hour, 41 seconds This policy allows for multi-use development and this policy has been announced in November of this year. However, it is still not got effective. 1:00:50 1 hour, 50 seconds as soon as it is effective which could be any time between 3 and um anytime between 15 days and 6 months from now I 1:00:59 1 hour, 59 seconds think we'll be able to get started on that immediately. 1:01:03 1 hour, 1 minute, 3 seconds Got it. Uh uh I think uh because uh there probably are other participants 1:01:10 1 hour, 1 minute, 10 seconds for for the questions I'll restrict myself here uh and I'll probably come back to you if I have more questions through an email or something. 1:01:20 1 hour, 1 minute, 20 seconds Thank you Pune. Uh thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. Raj Sharaf. 1:01:36 1 hour, 1 minute, 36 seconds Am I audible now? Yeah Raja I can hear you. 1:01:41 1 hour, 1 minute, 41 seconds Uh sir congratulations first of all for this great set of number. Uh so I have couple of questions sir. So please allow me some time. 1:01:50 1 hour, 1 minute, 50 seconds uh there is a article uh article on 15th of April in business standards which uh 1:01:58 1 hour, 1 minute, 58 seconds mention MD of the company and says that uh he spoke that uh there's a delay in 1:02:06 1 hour, 2 minutes, 6 seconds the shipment for the raw material sourcing not because we are exposed as we are not so much exposed to Gulf but 1:02:14 1 hour, 2 minutes, 14 seconds the shipping hubs are in Dubai and Gulf so Even if we are sourcing from uh North 1:02:21 1 hour, 2 minutes, 21 seconds America and uh European countries so shipping is a problem and in the same article is mentioned that we have scaled 1:02:28 1 hour, 2 minutes, 28 seconds down our production and focusing only on critical supplies to key OEMs and uh this is very concerning as 1:02:37 1 hour, 2 minutes, 37 seconds mentioned by business standards. So so want you comment on that and then I will proceed for further questions. So I think you have hit the nail. 1:02:44 1 hour, 2 minutes, 44 seconds Whatever sourcing from Gulf has come down. Sourcing from other countries has uh slowed down because of trans 1:02:51 1 hour, 2 minutes, 51 seconds shshipment in in around Gulf. However, so far we have not been very badly affected. Having said that uh I do see 1:02:59 1 hour, 2 minutes, 59 seconds that in the first quarter my volume might be slightly lower than the fourth quarter. However, it will be still I 1:03:07 1 hour, 3 minutes, 7 seconds think more than double or more than twice of um I I don't know the exact number of the la first quarter last year. My volume in the first quarter 1:03:15 1 hour, 3 minutes, 15 seconds might be marginally lower than fourth quarter. However, it'll be much much higher than the first quarter of last year. Uh and I don't really see it 1:03:25 1 hour, 3 minutes, 25 seconds affecting my AITA margins in the first quarter and going forward for the whole year I don't see major impact on the company. 1:03:35 1 hour, 3 minutes, 35 seconds So, so we are very confident of uh maintaining a beta margin what we have got in Q4. Is it right sir? 1:03:44 1 hour, 3 minutes, 44 seconds uh yes I might be able to just about maintain the AIT the EITA margin will remain at 5%. The top line might come 1:03:51 1 hour, 3 minutes, 51 seconds down 5% from Q4 but which will be still much. How much was Q1 last year? 1:03:59 1 hour, 3 minutes, 59 seconds Uh so Q1 last year 1847 Q1 last year sorry sir how much is it? 1:04:07 1 hour, 4 minutes, 7 seconds Uh Q1 last year 486 sir. 1:04:10 1 hour, 4 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. So from uh I've done 735 crores in Q4. Um it might be marginally lower but 1:04:19 1 hour, 4 minutes, 19 seconds compared to 485 it will still be about 40% higher. 1:04:23 1 hour, 4 minutes, 23 seconds Okay sir and sir what I can see is a reduction in the inventory also from levels from Q2 and Q3. 1:04:29 1 hour, 4 minutes, 29 seconds So it is indicating that only that there is I think you hit the nail on the head. Uh I was fortunate that uh the inventory 1:04:37 1 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds came down and my excess inventory has been reduced in Q4 because of that. 1:04:43 1 hour, 4 minutes, 43 seconds Okay sir. And sir uh as we are targeting a very uh hefty growth going forward. So what what is our working capital 1:04:52 1 hour, 4 minutes, 52 seconds requirement? Our working capital is I think close to 30 and 40 days between 30 and 40 days. What is the requirement? We are invisaging for next uh next year and forward. 1:05:02 1 hour, 5 minutes, 2 seconds So my working capital requirement I roughly have about 30 to 30 35 days for stocks and 35 days for dattors. I think 1:05:11 1 hour, 5 minutes, 11 seconds that should be uh more or less in line for the future. Um I might be slightly reducing as the volume keeps going up. 1:05:20 1 hour, 5 minutes, 20 seconds So if um if I give you the figures for 2425 my inventory days is 35 days and my 1:05:26 1 hour, 5 minutes, 26 seconds receivable days is 33 whereas uh 2526 it is 35 and 31. Um more or less it will be 1:05:34 1 hour, 5 minutes, 34 seconds in this line only. while we are working very hard to ensure that both come down by maybe 2 to three days uh over this year. 1:05:44 1 hour, 5 minutes, 44 seconds Okay. Thank you sir. Uh our borrowings has come down that is very good sir and we are now cash flow positive on operational levels. So how we are seeing 1:05:52 1 hour, 5 minutes, 52 seconds our borrowings going forward? Will this maintain at the same level or we are going to reduce this borrowing further or we are taking any anything for our 1:06:01 1 hour, 6 minutes, 1 second working capital requirement? are see uh along with the turnover the working capital will keep going up. So coming down over a period of time other than 1:06:10 1 hour, 6 minutes, 10 seconds the retained earnings is not going to be uh very uh logical. Our working capital will keep going up along with the 1:06:17 1 hour, 6 minutes, 17 seconds turnover. Uh and our borrowings also will go up but hopefully not in the same ratio as our turnover. 1:06:24 1 hour, 6 minutes, 24 seconds Okay. So it will keep reducing uh as per the percentage as a as a as a percentage it will keep reducing. 1:06:31 1 hour, 6 minutes, 31 seconds Okay. And we will be cash flow positive. 1:06:33 1 hour, 6 minutes, 33 seconds We will maintain the same tempo with cash flow. Yeah. 1:06:37 1 hour, 6 minutes, 37 seconds Yeah. Thank you very much sir. Thank you very much for this clarification and I hope the same tempo should continue and we are doing very good sir. Thank you very much. 1:06:45 1 hour, 6 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you Raj. 1:06:48 1 hour, 6 minutes, 48 seconds Thank you sir. We'll take the next question from Mr. N Modi. 1:06:56 1 hour, 6 minutes, 56 seconds Sir thank you sir. Sir my question is regarding this capacity. When did we increase our capacity from 30,000 to 35,000? 1:07:05 1 hour, 7 minutes, 5 seconds March. March of this year. Oh, that was not separately announced. That's why I was not aware. 1:07:11 1 hour, 7 minutes, 11 seconds No, it has been announced. It has been announced. I think it's in the presentation also. We uh yeah, in presentation it is there. 1:07:20 1 hour, 7 minutes, 20 seconds And as and as regards this land sir which you have just talked about 13 to 14 acres land you have that is in s in 1:07:27 1 hour, 7 minutes, 27 seconds copper business or that is in that is that will remain in bhagyagar India those 13 acres is in bayagar India at the moment where it is 1:07:36 1 hour, 7 minutes, 36 seconds sorry at the moment where there right now in bhaganar India they will remain in bhagyagar India. 1:07:44 1 hour, 7 minutes, 44 seconds Okay okay okay ma'am. Okay okay okay sir. Thank you. Welcome. 1:07:53 1 hour, 7 minutes, 53 seconds Thank you, sir. Uh we'll take the next question from Mr. M. 1:08:14 1 hour, 8 minutes, 14 seconds Uh we'll take the next question from Miss Isha Agarwal. 1:08:24 1 hour, 8 minutes, 24 seconds Good afternoon sir. Sir my question is uh regarding the fund raise plan if you have any and can you please help me 1:08:32 1 hour, 8 minutes, 32 seconds understand how you guys would want to do it? So we are looking at a fund raise. 1:08:37 1 hour, 8 minutes, 37 seconds We are still not come up with a final proposal. Uh but we are looking at a fund raise of roughly about 150 crores. 1:08:48 1 hour, 8 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. And sai when can we expect this like any rough estimate on this and what would be the medium for this? 1:08:57 1 hour, 8 minutes, 57 seconds Sorry I didn't get that last part. We have not yet. 1:09:01 1 hour, 9 minutes, 1 second So by when are we planning to do? We we have still not come ac uh across the final modalities as to how how and uh 1:09:11 1 hour, 9 minutes, 11 seconds how to do it. Uh we hope to do it in this financial year definitely. Okay sir. 1:09:20 1 hour, 9 minutes, 20 seconds And so uh I missed your answer on this just a recclarification. 1:09:26 1 hour, 9 minutes, 26 seconds So uh FI27 we are majorly seeing growth coming from volume. So how much value 1:09:33 1 hour, 9 minutes, 33 seconds growth did we uh mention? 15 to 20% was volume growth if I'm not mistaken. 1:09:40 1 hour, 9 minutes, 40 seconds That's right. We are looking at 20% volume uh volume growth. What comes from value is left to the market. 1:09:48 1 hour, 9 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. Okay sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. Yeah. 1:09:57 1 hour, 9 minutes, 57 seconds Thank you so much. Uh that was the last question for today's session. Thank you so much. 1:10:03 1 hour, 10 minutes, 3 seconds On behalf of in portal I would like to extend our sincere gratitude to the management team of Baganagar India Limited for their time and such detailed 1:10:11 1 hour, 10 minutes, 11 seconds responses. We also thank all the participants for their active engagement and thoughtful questions. I would just request the management to please give their closing remarks. 1:10:22 1 hour, 10 minutes, 22 seconds Uh thank you. I think we have covered almost everything but I do want to place on record my appreciation for both fin 1:10:30 1 hour, 10 minutes, 30 seconds portal and all the people who have taken their time out and asked us very pointed questions. We hope to come true to their 1:10:38 1 hour, 10 minutes, 38 seconds expectations and perform well in the coming quarters. Looking forward to seeing you all every quarter. Thank you once again for attending this meeting. 1:10:59 1 hour, 10 minutes, 59 seconds Uh thank you sir. Uh if there are any unanswered queries from the participants, please do not hesitate and reach out to us on the mail id given in the uh chat box. Thank you.