Bajaj Finserv — Q4 FY26

Bajaj Finserv Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coYe52EnZ-A Published: 13 days ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Paj Finserve Limited Q4 FI26 analyst conference call. As a reminder, 0:10 10 seconds all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the 0:18 18 seconds conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone p. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand 0:26 26 seconds the conference over to Mr. Rakkesh from GM Financial. Thank you and over to you Mr. Rakavesh. 0:33 33 seconds Thank you Angel. Good evening everyone and welcome to the Q4 FY26 earnings conference call of Bajage Pinser Limited. First I would like to thank the 0:41 41 seconds management of Bajach Pinser for giving us the opportunity to host this call. As always we'll have opening comments from the management team post which we will 0:49 49 seconds open the floor for Q&A. From the management side today we have Mr. Sri Nasan, President Insurance and Special 0:56 56 seconds Projects, Bajage Pens Limited. Shaman Singh Sani, CFO Bajage Pens Limited. Mr. 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds Tapan Singh, MD and CEO Baj General Insurance Limited. Mr. Karan Chub, MD and CEO Bajage Life Insurance Limited. 1:10 1 minute, 10 seconds Mr. Aves Karmali, CFO Baj General Insurance Limited. Mr. Vipin Banter, CFO Bajage Life Insurance Limited. Mr. 1:18 1 minute, 18 seconds Ashish Panchchal MD and CEO Bajage Finser DX Limited and Mr. Ganesh Moan MD Bajins AMC. With this I would hand over 1:27 1 minute, 27 seconds the floor to Ramandep Sa for his opening comments. Thanks and over to you sir. 1:33 1 minute, 33 seconds Thank you for the introduction. Uh good evening everybody. We welcome you to this conference call to discuss the 1:40 1 minute, 40 seconds results of Bajage Finserve Limited BFS for quarter 4 FI26. 1:46 1 minute, 46 seconds As before in this call, we will largely be concentrating on the consolidated results of BFS. The results of our insurance operations through Bajad 1:55 1 minute, 55 seconds General and Bajage Life, our emerging companies which include Bajins Health, Bajage Finser Direct, Bajage Finserve 2:04 2 minutes, 4 seconds Asset Management Company. And lastly, we're material the standalone results of Bajage Finser itself. 2:10 2 minutes, 10 seconds uh our two other subsidiaries Baj Finance and Bajage Housing Finance have already had their conference calls and 2:18 2 minutes, 18 seconds hence we would pursue only very high level questions on these companies. Uh to start with a few hygiene points as a 2:25 2 minutes, 25 seconds word of caution we affirm that any statements that may look forward-looking statements are just estimates and do not constitute an assurance or indication of any future performance result. 2:37 2 minutes, 37 seconds Uh let me also give you an update on the basis of accounting uh which we use at a finer level as required by the regulations. Uh Bajage Fins prepares its 2:46 2 minutes, 46 seconds financials in compliance with Indian accounting standards referred as INDAS. 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds The insurance companies are however currently not covered under IND. They have prepared their Indas financials only for the purpose of consolidation 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second with Finserf. Accordingly for Bajad General and Bajage Life standalone numbers reported are based on nonBS 3:08 3 minutes, 8 seconds accounting standards which is referred as Indian gap as applicable to the insurance companies currently. However on the subject as per the recent 3:17 3 minutes, 17 seconds regulations from IID insurers are now required to transition to Ind. 3:25 3 minutes, 25 seconds However, the set regulation also allows insurers to seek a forbearance for a year keeping in mind the level of readiness of each one of those. 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds Accordingly, both insurance companies plan to seek forbearance for a year and would transition to India from 1st of April 2027. 3:46 3 minutes, 46 seconds Now moving to an update on our joint venture with Alian. I'm happy to confirm that in March our insurance subsidiaries 3:53 3 minutes, 53 seconds that is Baj General and Bajage Life have completed the buyback of the balance 3% Alian stake uh making our insurance 4:02 4 minutes, 2 seconds businesses now 100% Baj made in India made for India and made by India. 4:09 4 minutes, 9 seconds Uh the buyback not only concludes the buyout of alian stake but it also is expected to strengthen the roe and the 4:17 4 minutes, 17 seconds roe of both the insurance subsidiaries going forward. Post the buyback the 100% holding of the insurance subsidiaries by 4:26 4 minutes, 26 seconds the Bajage group is split as follows. Uh 77.33 is held by Bajaj Finserf 18.1% by 4:34 4 minutes, 34 seconds Bajage Holdings and about 4.6% 6% by Jamnal Funds Private Limited. 4:41 4 minutes, 41 seconds I'll now jump into the high level results uh for the quarter on a consolidated basis which have been put out in a press release dated 30th April. 4:51 4 minutes, 51 seconds The consolidated total income uh grew 6% to about 38,58 4:57 4 minutes, 57 seconds crores versus 36,434 crores for the same quarter last year. 5:04 5 minutes, 4 seconds Uh however you may please note that the income for the quarter looks a little uh depleted because of the high impact 5:12 5 minutes, 12 seconds coming from the MTM on the fair value through P&L portfolio held by insurance companies as uh the total income 5:21 5 minutes, 21 seconds includes investment income and some of the investments by the insurance companies are held at FETPL basis due to 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds the geopolitical tensions there is a temp temporary MTM impact impact uh impacted the revenue and if we gross out 5:37 5 minutes, 37 seconds the MTM impact and the revenue the revenue growth will actually be 14% as compared to the 6% reported by us. 5:46 5 minutes, 46 seconds Similarly, the consolidated profit after tax also grew at about 5% to 2539 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds crores as against 2417 crores for the same period last year. 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds Again excluding the temporary MTM losses of the insurance companies, the consolidated profit after tax actually 6:04 6 minutes, 4 seconds grew at a large 24% as compared to the 5% being reported by us. So just to 6:11 6 minutes, 11 seconds summarize both the revenue and the bottom line for the quarter being reported are largely impacted by the MTM 6:18 6 minutes, 18 seconds impact which we believe is temporary in nature uh due to the geopolitical risk. 6:24 6 minutes, 24 seconds And if we gross it up excluding these MTM implications, the uh revenue growth and the pad growth are very healthy at 6:33 6 minutes, 33 seconds uh 14% and 24% respectively. Now I'll just deep dive into each of the respective companies to give a texture 6:42 6 minutes, 42 seconds on the companies itself. Uh let's start with Bajad General. On GWP growth basis 6:48 6 minutes, 48 seconds for the quarter the growth was muted at 4322 crores as against 4326 crores for the same quarter last year. 6:59 6 minutes, 59 seconds This is largely on account of tactical decision made by the company on reducing its exposure to crop and motor amid the 7:07 7 minutes, 7 seconds elevated pricing pressures which we've seen in the market in the last quarter. 7:13 7 minutes, 13 seconds However, if we exclude the uh bulky crop and government health businesses, the GWBS in fact increased by 8.3%. 7:22 7 minutes, 22 seconds As against the market growth uh and when we refer to market, it's the multi-line growth of 11%. And here we know that the 7:30 7 minutes, 30 seconds multi-line growth was uh backed by some of the players uh seeing EOM stress and hence they may not be comparable uh at this point. 7:41 7 minutes, 41 seconds uh underwriting losses stood at uh 96 crores for the quarter versus about 3 crores for the same similar quarter last 7:49 7 minutes, 49 seconds year impacted largely by elevated uh claims arising from our government health business. Uh this essentially 7:57 7 minutes, 57 seconds arises from the fact that uh the loss ratios on these schemes are higher in the initial months and then they taper 8:05 8 minutes, 5 seconds down. So it uh is kind of a timing variance. uh and also the lower crop business which we've done in the last 8:13 8 minutes, 13 seconds quarter. Uh given the stress we saw from a uh pricing perspective, the combined ratio for the quarter was 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds elevated at about 113.6% for the quarter as against 104.8% for the same quarter last year. Now this 8:31 8 minutes, 31 seconds essentially came from the fact that we did a treaty within uh the last quarter on government health basis but it was 8:38 8 minutes, 38 seconds done on retro basis from the third quarter which meant that the NWP for the period was depressed because of 8:46 8 minutes, 46 seconds backdation of this treaty and hence the uh elevated uh combined ratio. However, if you look at the combined ratios 8:55 8 minutes, 55 seconds excluding the bulky businesses which is government health and crop, the combined ratios actually improved uh for the 9:02 9 minutes, 2 seconds quarter versus the same quarter last year uh on a full year basis. However, if you see the combined ratio which 9:10 9 minutes, 10 seconds nullifies the impact of these timing variances, the combined ratio on old basis which is the non one byN basis is 9:18 9 minutes, 18 seconds reported at a very healthy 101.9% which we believe will continue be continue to be amongst the best in the 9:26 9 minutes, 26 seconds market. The roe excluding surplus capital uh which is at about 200% solveny stands close to 19% uh for the 9:34 9 minutes, 34 seconds period. uh pad growth also remained flat uh for the quarter for the same reasons which I mentioned earlier uh the fact 9:43 9 minutes, 43 seconds that there was a timing variance on government health schemes uh claims being booked and we did lower crop 9:50 9 minutes, 50 seconds business which last year same quarter was very profitable uh on AUM uh we ended the year at about 9:58 9 minutes, 58 seconds 35,529 crores as against 33,122 crores for the same period period last year a growth of 7.3%. 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds However, it's important to note that both AUM and solveny for the period have been impacted due to the one-time impact 10:17 10 minutes, 17 seconds of the buyback of the 3% alian stake which we've done which for the general insurance company was close to 1590 10:25 10 minutes, 25 seconds crores. Uh to summarize these operation results including the mine ratio and roe underscore Baja General's disciplined 10:33 10 minutes, 33 seconds focus on delivering balance and profitable growth supported by strong risk selection, robust distribution, prudent underwriting and continued 10:42 10 minutes, 42 seconds emphasis on exceptional customer service in the most difficult and highly competitive market. We will now move to Bajage Life. 10:53 10 minutes, 53 seconds But as life's financial outcomes have been in line with the plan for transition to sustainable and profitable 10:59 10 minutes, 59 seconds growth as was highlighted uh in the mid of last year. The impact of change in strategy continues to be reflected in 11:08 11 minutes, 8 seconds the fourth quarter results as well. The retail weighted received premium for the quarter grew at about 9.7% 11:15 11 minutes, 15 seconds from 2328 crores to about 2550 crores largely in uh in line with the 11:23 11 minutes, 23 seconds industry growth. However, what's important to note is our retail protection contribution in the overall 11:30 11 minutes, 30 seconds retail business has grown to 8.4% with the overall growth of 67% for the period. 11:38 11 minutes, 38 seconds Similarly, the group protection business has registered a very healthy growth of 42% for the quarter. Moving to the 11:46 11 minutes, 46 seconds bottom line parameters, our VNB for the quarter grew at a very healthy 29% up from 549 crores uh to about 709 crores. 11:58 11 minutes, 58 seconds uh for the quarter uh the NBM is for the quarter up to 24.5% as against 22.1% 12:07 12 minutes, 7 seconds reported for the same period last year and expansion of about absolute 2.4%. 12:14 12 minutes, 14 seconds These outcomes are despite the gross GST impact of about 5% on NBM for the quarter and about 2.9% on a YTD basis. 12:25 12 minutes, 25 seconds The GST impact on VNB has been largely mitigated on exit basis in March 26. We 12:32 12 minutes, 32 seconds can now clearly see that the benefits of our revamp strategy uh Bajad's life 2.0 are clearly visible in the financial 12:40 12 minutes, 40 seconds outcomes as has been depicted earlier on the back of continued strong renewal premium growth of about 18% Baj lives GWP grew at 21% for the quarter. 12:53 12 minutes, 53 seconds However, it's important to note that persistency dips were observed against certain cohorts again in line with the 13:00 13 minutes market. However, the management is working on it to bring it at the similar levels we've seen in the past. On an 13:08 13 minutes, 8 seconds overall basis, the uh retail weighted receipt premium product mix for the quarter was very well balanced at uh par 13:17 13 minutes, 17 seconds with 25% nonpar and savings non-par savings and annuality at 24% term at a very healthy 8% and ulips at 42%. 13:28 13 minutes, 28 seconds The profit after tax also registered a very healthy growth of 78% up from 41 crores for the last quarter last year to 13:36 13 minutes, 36 seconds about 73 crores for the quarter being reported now. Uh Bajad's life ended the quarter with aum of 1 lak 33,500 crores 13:45 13 minutes, 45 seconds up about 8% again this was along with the solvency impacted by the buyback of 3% of alians stake which for the life 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds company was close to 1200 crores overall the quarter for Baj life is in line with the expectations and on the right 14:01 14 minutes, 1 second trajectory of sustainable and profitable growth finally both the insurance companies continue to be financially strong with 14:09 14 minutes, 9 seconds solvency for baj life at 266% and bajach general at 300% and hence are 14:17 14 minutes, 17 seconds very well poised to weather any external ad adversity we will now move to the lending 14:23 14 minutes, 23 seconds businesses I'll start with baj finance a very strong quarter across all key metrics including volumes aum new 14:32 14 minutes, 32 seconds customer addition credit cost and profitability the number of new loans booked for the quarter was at about 1.3 14:40 14 minutes, 40 seconds crores as against uh 1.07 crores for the same quarter last year, a growth of about 21%. 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds The company's diversified business model has enabled it to cross the record milestone of AUM of uh rupees 5 lakh 14:57 14 minutes, 57 seconds crores and a strong AUM growth of about 22% at 5 lak 9,975 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds crores. The net total income grew by about 21% to 14,29 15:10 15 minutes, 10 seconds crores up from about 11,750 crores for the same period last year. 15:16 15 minutes, 16 seconds PAT was close to 5,500 crores for the quarter. 15:22 15 minutes, 22 seconds Um if you look at the uh OPEX to net total income ratio after adjusting for the loan losses and provision 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds reclassification which the company has done the ratios are flattish at about 33.2%. 15:38 15 minutes, 38 seconds uh there is a slight increase which is uh visible uh sequentially due to the cascade cascading impact of the new 15:46 15 minutes, 46 seconds labor code uh which we had seen in quarter 3 and accelerated uh gold loan branch expansion. 15:54 15 minutes, 54 seconds We have also been investing in uh AI implementation and that also impacts the ratios to some level. However, both 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds growth, however, we are seeing acceleration in both growth and improvement in operating efficiencies due to the AI investments we've been 16:10 16 minutes, 10 seconds making. Loan losses and provisions for the quarter were at about 2,8 crores as against 2,167 crores for the same quarter last year. 16:21 16 minutes, 21 seconds Before the additional ECL provision, uh it increased by about 8% to 2,125 16:29 16 minutes, 29 seconds crores. uh up from 1970 crores for the same period last year. In quarter four, 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds we saw a net decrease in stage two and stage three assets uh at about 430 crores reflecting a continued 16:45 16 minutes, 45 seconds improvement in portfolio quality and the outlook on credit cost going forward. 16:52 16 minutes, 52 seconds The GNPA and NNPA stood at a healthy 1.01% 01% and4% respectively as against 16:59 16 minutes, 59 seconds 96% and44% for the same period last year. The capital adequacy remains strong at 21.55% and the tire 1 capital was 20.67%. 17:12 17 minutes, 12 seconds I'll now move to the mortgage subsidiary of BFL Housing Finance Limited. Again, a very good quarter on dispersements, AUM 17:20 17 minutes, 20 seconds operating efficiency, asset quality and profitability. a stable quarter with AUM growth of 23% driven by good momentum in 17:29 17 minutes, 29 seconds disbbursements. However, this was backed by some portfolio attrition. Uh growth was very well distributed across all the 17:37 17 minutes, 37 seconds business segments. Home loans uh for the company grew at about 18%. Uh loan against property grew 24%, lease uh 17:45 17 minutes, 45 seconds rental discounting grew 44% and developer finance grew 13%. 17:50 17 minutes, 50 seconds The net income uh sorry the net interest income grew 15% to about 945 crores as against 823 crores for the same period 17:59 17 minutes, 59 seconds last year. The operating efficiencies continued uh with OPEX to net total income at a healthy 19.2% 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds as against 21.8% for the same period last year. 18:13 18 minutes, 13 seconds uh healthy asset quality continued to be maintained with GNPA and NNPA at a very 18:20 18 minutes, 20 seconds small 27% and.1% respectively. 18:25 18 minutes, 25 seconds PAD grew by about 14% to 670 crores for the quarter. However, this uh excluded 18:32 18 minutes, 32 seconds the one-time impact of tax credit which the company had taken last year of 34 crores. The pad growth would have indeed 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds been 20%. The capital adequacy ratio stood at 22.46% uh as of 31st March with T2 capital at 22.01%. 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds In summary, another very strong quarter for both our lending companies Bajage Finance and Bajage Housing Finance Limited. Now let me give you update on 19:00 19 minutes our emerging companies. I'll start with Bajage Fins Health. uh for the quarter Bajash Fins Health logged in about 6.5 19:08 19 minutes, 8 seconds million healthcare transactions as against about 5.3 million transactions done for the same quarter last year. Uh 19:17 19 minutes, 17 seconds Bajins of Health continued its expansion of the provider network which includes about 1 lakh 30,000 plus doctors about 19:25 19 minutes, 25 seconds 15,000 plus hospitals and about 6500 plus lab touch points. Utilizing this 19:32 19 minutes, 32 seconds network strength and its tech platform, Bajage Health is able to offer an integrated OPD, IPD and wellness 19:40 19 minutes, 40 seconds experience to both retail as well as corporate customers. During the quarter, the revenue for the company grew at a very healthy 41%. 19:49 19 minutes, 49 seconds So in all overall a good quarter for Bajachins Health. Moving to Bajage markets during the quarter the 19:56 19 minutes, 56 seconds dispersements for the quarter were about 247 crores as against 1,800 crores for the trailing quarter which is quarter 3 of FI26. 20:06 20 minutes, 6 seconds The company ended with a total unique partner count which are the partners available on the platform of about 103 20:15 20 minutes, 15 seconds in number. The operating revenue for the company however for the period has indeed degrown uh to about uh 95 crores 20:24 20 minutes, 24 seconds down from about 129 crores for the same period last year which is attributable to decrease in loans and transacting 20:33 20 minutes, 33 seconds customers during the quarter. And as has been indicated uh earlier in the past quarter, this essentially was a planned 20:41 20 minutes, 41 seconds degrowth because we had planned a migration of our uh new system which is being used by the frontline sales uh and 20:50 20 minutes, 50 seconds the migration uh is now complete. So we believe that uh uh the degrowth year on 20:56 20 minutes, 56 seconds should be behind us. Further uh we have also changed the revenue structures within the company where some of the 21:04 21 minutes, 4 seconds revenues and move on a trail basis which now provide stability and predictability and a nonlinear future revenue. The 21:13 21 minutes, 13 seconds business model also has been aligned with the RBI digital lending directions for LSPs which came into effect from 1st of November 2025. 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds Uh now moving to Bajage Finserve Asset Management Company. Uh the AMC continued 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds its good run recording aum uh of about 26,820 crores at the quarter end and it 21:39 21 minutes, 39 seconds retained the 26 uh spot amongst all the mutual fund companies in India in terms of AUM. The closing AUM was uh heavily 21:48 21 minutes, 48 seconds impacted as we know due to the geopolitical tensions. However, the if you look at the average AUM for the 21:55 21 minutes, 55 seconds quarter, it was a healthy 30,627 crores as against 20,133 22:02 22 minutes, 2 seconds crores uh average for the same quarter last year, a growth of 52%. 22:09 22 minutes, 9 seconds The equity mix in the EUM stands at about 59% and the non-group share of AUM constitutes about 94% of the total AUM. 22:18 22 minutes, 18 seconds This is just to sum up the performance on all our companies. Uh before we open for questions, considering the bosity of 22:26 22 minutes, 26 seconds time, I would request the audience to kindly keep their questions brief so that we can cover more queries during the call. With this, I invite questions from the audience. 22:38 22 minutes, 38 seconds Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may star in one on a touchdown telephone. If you wish to 22:47 22 minutes, 47 seconds remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, 22:55 22 minutes, 55 seconds we will wait for a moment while the question assembles. 23:02 23 minutes, 2 seconds The first question comes from the line of Shria Shivani with Nomura. Please go ahead. 23:07 23 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Um um I have two questions. First is on the life insurance uh entity. Uh nonpar 23:16 23 minutes, 16 seconds savings mix has reduced. I'm just trying to understand if you can give us a flavor of how were the markets for the nonpar product in the year that has gone 23:24 23 minutes, 24 seconds by. Was there any pricing pressure that you would like to highlight? Uh what is your strategy for FI27? My second question is on the general insurance 23:33 23 minutes, 33 seconds piece. So sorry the motor TP piece over there. So the reserving triangles looks 23:38 23 minutes, 38 seconds like the uh uh release in TP in FI26 has been higher. I'm coming to about 800 23:46 23 minutes, 46 seconds crores versus usually the 600 to 700 you've done in the last couple of years. 23:50 23 minutes, 50 seconds So um any color you can give around uh what has happened here and sorry I'll squeeze in one more question. This is on Bajage Direct. Um uh so good to hear 24:00 24 minutes that the migration etc is completed. I just want to understand as we enter into this year and there are lot of concerns around some of the business loans and 24:08 24 minutes, 8 seconds what can happen etc. Are there are there any measures we are taking to tightening uh anything from our end? Um yeah those are my three questions. Thank you. 24:16 24 minutes, 16 seconds Whippin you want to take the first one on non-part savings whippin or taron whoever uh let me just step in. 24:27 24 minutes, 27 seconds Uh so thanks for your question. 24:30 24 minutes, 30 seconds See nonpar uh the way we see it as a bucket of nonpar plus annuities 24:37 24 minutes, 37 seconds uh because annuities are the same cost structured differently 24:43 24 minutes, 43 seconds u our annot actually doubled from 5% to 10% in the financial year and uh yeah 24:51 24 minutes, 51 seconds overall nonpar uh did come down uh from 21 to 16 but overall if you look at it I 24:59 24 minutes, 59 seconds And broadly we are 26 to 26% both in in both these casts. If you look at it, um 25:07 25 minutes, 7 seconds the market has actually looked at uh more higher age customers coming in and uh 25:16 25 minutes, 16 seconds which is where uh I mean the way we look at the market is when uh the higher age customers would rather have more 25:24 25 minutes, 24 seconds annuities than have uh medical based products and we are seeing a consistent 25:31 25 minutes, 31 seconds shift in the market towards annot. And I think this is a very healthy sign because usually the uh customers above 25:38 25 minutes, 38 seconds the age of 50 have more money in their pockets and hence are able to uh take uh 25:45 25 minutes, 45 seconds more uh such product more health and life products. Uh our ticket size in um annuities is actually uh doubled in the 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds last year. So that is that is the healthy one. You should expect that when we talk we will fundamentally look 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds at these two buckets together because they're intertwined. 26:05 26 minutes, 5 seconds Conceptually if I might say on the nonparal market as to what's been happening uh the as you're aware below 26:13 26 minutes, 13 seconds five five lakh and below there is a tax uh benefits trade available. 26:18 26 minutes, 18 seconds uh and whenever our tax uh post tax returns between fixed deposits and 26:26 26 minutes, 26 seconds non-par savings u actually comes to about approximately 2% that this gap 26:32 26 minutes, 32 seconds comes to around 2%. the industry gets a lot more tailwinds in the non-par saving 26:38 26 minutes, 38 seconds plans. Uh if there is liquidity uh in the banking sector and uh uh post taxd 26:47 26 minutes, 47 seconds uh look at the look at this kind of a gap with below five lakh ticket size we will expect the non-par savings to continue. 26:56 26 minutes, 56 seconds So it's really an impact on market there's nothing to do with the pricing etc. as of now from our side uh there's 27:03 27 minutes, 3 seconds fundamentally a spec to higher age uh brackets. I hope that answers the question. 27:10 27 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. Yes, that was useful. Thank you. 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds You want to take the question on TP releases. 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. So if you look at TP release is a factor of how the book develops and TP is a longtail uh book. So as the claims 27:27 27 minutes, 27 seconds development happens and compared to reserving how is it developing and what has to be seen. So and if the numbers you mentioned I don't see that there's a 27:36 27 minutes, 36 seconds huge shift in terms of uh happening which means that the company has ethically reserved over time and as the 27:43 27 minutes, 43 seconds book keeps on developing and claims start getting paid the business keeps happening. It's a it's a natural phenomena. I don't see any um change in the philosophy of how it's progressing. 27:59 27 minutes, 59 seconds Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that my best tar and want to ask a question. Next question comes 28:06 28 minutes, 6 seconds from the line of prayen with Muzlal Oswan. Please go ahead. 28:11 28 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. Hi. uh uh so just wanted to understand on the general insurance front you know how do you see the 28:17 28 minutes, 17 seconds product mix evolving and you know the uh the overall profitability of the entity 28:23 28 minutes, 23 seconds going ahead into uh FI uh FI27 so how do you see this uh kind of moving 28:34 28 minutes, 34 seconds so if you look at it and actually interesting question let's look at last year the industry combined ratio actually moved up by about 6 to 7%. 28:43 28 minutes, 43 seconds If you look at Bad General command ratio to one and a half last year now so even though industry it by about 67% combined 28:51 28 minutes, 51 seconds ratio general still know was where no uh it normally remains close to 100 is what the end of is to be there industry reach 28:59 28 minutes, 59 seconds 1% or so. So if you see the gap it has been um huge and that's why the fourth quarter I think was mentioning as we saw 29:08 29 minutes, 8 seconds the combination deteriorate I think we in in places where we felt the pricing is not appropriate and that we have been 29:15 29 minutes, 15 seconds doing all these years there we go slow where we see that the price is appropriate from a customer perspective to be served well as the one that we 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds write. uh so next year it again depends on how the industry moves but if you look at uh in fact one of the quarters 29:31 29 minutes, 31 seconds last year industry command is 128% also no I think so fundamentally as a company our philosophy remain the same uh we are we 29:40 29 minutes, 40 seconds are a company which is there for 100 of years it is not a company which we are looking at short term no in terms of making it up so it will always do proven 29:47 29 minutes, 47 seconds underwriting to always be our customer offsets it will always find opportunity in the market where to go and keep on growing and that's what we have been doing and for the Next we also the 29:55 29 minutes, 55 seconds philosophy remain the same and on product mix you know the governmentled businesses on health insurance on health or either the crop 30:05 30 minutes, 5 seconds business the approach is there an approach towards uh as I said no now I think I've mentioned 30:12 30 minutes, 12 seconds this on lot of previous calls also the approach is simple wherever the pricing is appropriate in which we serve the 30:19 30 minutes, 19 seconds customers well is what we write now if you tell me that I make an approach right now and say this is what I'll write and the pricing appropriate for 30:26 30 minutes, 26 seconds that. Uh why we write that journal is one of the large insurance uh company in India which means that we write all product line and we have a decent market 30:35 30 minutes, 35 seconds in each one of them. Uh the variation that happens depends on how the market behaves in which product line where we get more aggressive or pricing goes 30:42 30 minutes, 42 seconds below what we feel comfortable there we reduce where the pricing is appropriate we increase. No. So we we can never know kind of tell you that uh next year this 30:51 30 minutes, 51 seconds is exactly what we shall do. will uh move prop up or move this but in all lines of businesses you will see that we among the top companies in where we 30:59 30 minutes, 59 seconds position ourselves. So that is how we shall continue and depending on the pricing of the particular product line in the years to come we shall know move uh on that basis. 31:11 31 minutes, 11 seconds Got that thanks. And on life insurance you know just uh just trying to understand 31:17 31 minutes, 17 seconds uh BNB margin trajectory from here on you know what kind of ENV margin should we think and what kind of product mix 31:24 31 minutes, 24 seconds that you would be targeting for FI27 and uh you know given the market uncertaintity right now continuing in 31:32 31 minutes, 32 seconds April uh do you think that the product mix kind of which has moved slightly away from not a big one but for the full year but do you think that trajectory 31:40 31 minutes, 40 seconds will continue and the margins can kind of continue to improve on a full year basis. 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds Okay. So let me just give you a little bit of a strategy part and then Vin can jump into give you specifics. Uh 31:55 31 minutes, 55 seconds the way this is that directionally all our product segments are not profit 32:03 32 minutes, 3 seconds now profitable. So the fact that uh there is ULIP uh ULIP is now profitable. 32:10 32 minutes, 10 seconds So this is a discussion we had had about 18 months back. Uh and uh now are you uh 32:19 32 minutes, 19 seconds the growth is actually not a bad sign it's a good sign. So fundamentally as uh 32:25 32 minutes, 25 seconds the product mix is moving uh we've uh had this entire culture shift in all our 32:31 32 minutes, 31 seconds businesses uh including agency which have very uh I'd say very well picked up 32:39 32 minutes, 39 seconds the term plans and uh I think that has been the significant needle mover in terms of product mix. We expect the 32:47 32 minutes, 47 seconds trajectory of term to only increase from here on. Uh and that should impact uh our uh VNB margins only positively as 32:57 32 minutes, 57 seconds you know term uh while maybe a little uh lower ticket size if you are able to sell more of core term then it is uh 33:05 33 minutes, 5 seconds only what helpful to your to the uh VMBB margins. So directly directly that's what is moving. uh Ven if you'd like to 33:12 33 minutes, 12 seconds add anything to sir. No, I think uh ton that sums up uh fresh to be more specific the margin expansion that we 33:20 33 minutes, 20 seconds are talking about and this is you know after accounting for the GC impact that we had called out I think uh as we had 33:27 33 minutes, 27 seconds said earlier it's a combination of our channel product mix uh the way uh we are able to manage the kind of products we 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds are offering and we we do uh apply some agility there obviously the cost effort that we have taken that is contributing 33:44 33 minutes, 44 seconds 400s to the market. So while all of that is there uh in terms of product mix uh we have always maintained that we would 33:52 33 minutes, 52 seconds want to have you know uh a par at about 25% plus minus annuity plus uh non-par savings again in the 25 to 30% range 34:02 34 minutes, 2 seconds term we would aspire to be 10% plus and you live will be about 40%. So I think that's the mix that's the stable mix we would want to be uh operating at. I hope 34:11 34 minutes, 11 seconds that answers your question. Yeah, definitely. And just last one question on AMC. Uh at what scale of AUM do you 34:20 34 minutes, 20 seconds think that this business will break even and what tenure what should be the uh target for us in our model from a break 34:28 34 minutes, 28 seconds even perspective and what are the new segments that you are kind of investing in uh PMS, AIF, SIS all these products 34:36 34 minutes, 36 seconds something which you're developing as well. 34:40 34 minutes, 40 seconds Yeah. So on the AMC side what I would say is the break even for us would be close to about one lakh crores um with 34:47 34 minutes, 47 seconds the continued mix on uh equity versus debt versus passes. Um at this point we 34:54 34 minutes, 54 seconds are actively considering both the PMS as well as the SIF. So within the next one one and a half years we will be launching both these uh both these 35:02 35 minutes, 2 seconds business lines and Okay, I got that. Thanks. 35:11 35 minutes, 11 seconds are you done with the questions? Yeah, thanks. Thanks. 35:15 35 minutes, 15 seconds I think we missed one question from Shria. Uh maybe Ashish if you can answer that. The question was on the concerns 35:22 35 minutes, 22 seconds on quality of uh loans. If you can just take that please. 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds Sure. Um so as a marketplace we get a ringside view of the prevailing risk and resultant counter measures by various 35:36 35 minutes, 36 seconds manufacturers and therefore they adjust the share of business that they take various manufacturers from our marketplace from 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds time to time as a distributor. However, from the total throughput point of view, while our mix across manufacturers 35:53 35 minutes, 53 seconds changes depending upon their risk measures, this doesn't affect us being a distributor. Having said that, we've 36:02 36 minutes, 2 seconds seen um that um two years ago the risk was much higher in the market as you can 36:09 36 minutes, 9 seconds see from uh bureau report uh and therefore the resultant manufacturer actions uh especially in business zones 36:17 36 minutes, 17 seconds were high uh even last year uh they were significant over a period of time we 36:23 36 minutes, 23 seconds have seen portfolios uh behaving better but anyways we are insulated from uh any 36:32 36 minutes, 32 seconds balance sheet and P&L impact of such a risk behaving adversely in the manufacturer's portfolio. Having said that, we choose our manufacturer 36:41 36 minutes, 41 seconds partners very very carefully and therefore our volumes are not affected and hence revenue is not affected. 36:50 36 minutes, 50 seconds I hope that answers the question. 36:53 36 minutes, 53 seconds Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you're a best star and one to ask a question. Next question 37:00 37 minutes comes from the line of Sankit Koda with Evan Despar. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. My first 37:07 37 minutes, 7 seconds question is on life insurance. So uh if if I guess in fact the margin for the year was at 22%age and and you you said 37:17 37 minutes, 17 seconds that um most of the negations have been done um uh with respect to GST negative impact by end of the year. So so is it 37:26 37 minutes, 26 seconds fair to say that uh in next year uh if the person remains the same we we'll end up reporting a 22 kind of a margin for 37:33 37 minutes, 33 seconds for the next year. That's my first question. 37:40 37 minutes, 40 seconds So uh situ let me answer that. So uh when we say we have mitigated uh what that clearly means is for us uh as we 37:48 37 minutes, 48 seconds exited March and I'm saying for the month of March we have mitigated almost 90 92% of the GST impacted the residual 37:56 37 minutes, 56 seconds impact of 300 goods does exist but I think now that's part of our cost structure. Now uh the question on what 38:03 38 minutes, 3 seconds do we mean by mitigation? What we mean by mitigation is we have changed some of our products that we sell in the market. 38:09 38 minutes, 9 seconds Uh there is there has been a change in the kind of products or the product mix if I could say. Uh cost optimization has continues for us and we have 38:17 38 minutes, 17 seconds renegotiated some of our commercials with our partners. Now if that continues then uh that 4 and a half% that 38:26 38 minutes, 26 seconds annualized impact of GC that we talked about that has been mitigated. Uh I'm not sure of 22% that you were referring to. So if you can just help me 38:34 38 minutes, 34 seconds understand that uh no no in the B&B walk uh uh the margin what we mentioned before GST impact is is is 22%. So so I'm assuming 38:42 38 minutes, 42 seconds given given we will work with the same no no GST impact broadly I mean then with the same product mix are we uh 38:49 38 minutes, 49 seconds going to report closer to 22 margin in the next year. 38:53 38 minutes, 53 seconds Okay so let me clarify. So that's not the way to read it. uh when we looked at the walk we actually showed the gross GC impact all the mitigants of that are 39:02 39 minutes, 2 seconds part of our walk in terms of uh the new business uh mix and the uh profile that we are talking about. So the dent of 242 39:11 39 minutes, 11 seconds crores that you see uh is the gross dent the mitigation of it and let's assume that it's 100% mitigated uh uh as a 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds march end that benefit is sitting in the uh 636 bar if that that's what you are referring to. 39:26 39 minutes, 26 seconds Yeah. Yes. So we think because the benefit will be there for the entire year next year. So then then then we 39:34 39 minutes, 34 seconds will be probably assuming same business gets repeated in FI27. Then the margin what we are looking at is something that's the point I'm asking for FI27. 39:43 39 minutes, 43 seconds Yeah. Let me step in on that. We will you will not hear any affirmation or otherwise from us on margins if you're going to indicate like this please. 39:54 39 minutes, 54 seconds Uh okay sorry uh uh sorry I understood this one and and directionally directionally we can tell you we are in the positive trajectory 40:02 40 minutes, 2 seconds and uh all those changes are resulting in the positive margin but we're not going to indicate any margin but yeah 40:10 40 minutes, 10 seconds it's question understood understood thanks thanks that's thank thanks for that answer and and the second question probably was was 40:18 40 minutes, 18 seconds that uh uh is on the growth because because second half we probably operated on Dali 2.0 40:26 40 minutes, 26 seconds basically comparing with the previous days. Uh so so so our growth came back to around 15. Uh so so is it fair to say 40:35 40 minutes, 35 seconds that this this is the kind of growth we will end up and and if that is the case uh that heavy lifting will be done by agency channel because that's the 40:42 40 minutes, 42 seconds channel which took the maximum hit last year. Uh so so is it fair to say that the second half growth is more like 40:50 40 minutes, 50 seconds growth going ahead and and will be done by agency? 40:54 40 minutes, 54 seconds You you should see a better growth than uh what we saw in our second half. uh that much I can say u and all our 41:01 41 minutes, 1 second businesses are in now uh a growth trajectory uh various reasons uh the on 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds the bulk partners the bank assurance side we've added three uh significant partners in the last 18 months u federal 41:19 41 minutes, 19 seconds AU and uh yes bank now now that should start kicking in we already have a very 41:26 41 minutes, 26 seconds significant base of small and medium partners which have been growing quite well. So that tra trajectory is uh uh is 41:35 41 minutes, 35 seconds positive and I can see that the the bank assurance team is adding a lot more value uh to its partners by uh selling 41:42 41 minutes, 42 seconds risk products as well. Now that is that is working for both parties. 41:47 41 minutes, 47 seconds uh on the agency side of the business uh yes we did reconfigure we actually stretched our reconfiguration if you 41:55 41 minutes, 55 seconds remember in December when I uh told you uh because we felt that there was more buy more and more buy in for our term 42:04 42 minutes, 4 seconds plan and uh that the ticket size of term is obviously lower uh so we we recorded 42:11 42 minutes, 11 seconds a 8% growth uh Q1 Q for the last two quarters for agency U this I would say is a little 42:19 42 minutes, 19 seconds understated. You should expect it to be better. Um also because the fact that uh 42:25 42 minutes, 25 seconds the product mix is now largely set and u the input parameters that we are seeing in agency like the number of partners we 42:34 42 minutes, 34 seconds adding c uh number of distributors that is uh plus the number of policies we are adding in agency the trajectory is uh only positive. 42:45 42 minutes, 45 seconds uh then we come to our um proprietary sales and direct channel. I think that is uh been a healthy contributor and uh 42:54 42 minutes, 54 seconds we we continue to innovate with data and technology there and see how we can uh work with customers uh and the data we 43:02 43 minutes, 2 seconds already have to provide more and more uh target products and and that tra trajectory was also going undergoing a 43:10 43 minutes, 10 seconds change given the fact that we uh did not grow as expected in uh proprietary sales 43:17 43 minutes, 17 seconds last year. uh but all that growth will be back so you should expect a high growth. Uh understood understood and lastly one data keeping question on on 43:26 43 minutes, 26 seconds the EV side the assumption change of 51 crores is predominantly related to which operating parameter whether whether it's 43:33 43 minutes, 33 seconds mortality or persistency. So uh so shankit on a portfolio basis I think assumptions are holding good you would see there has been a dip in our 43:41 43 minutes, 41 seconds persistency and that's what largely reflected in assumption change understood understood and and lastly one question on general insurance um so 43:50 43 minutes, 50 seconds broadly I just want to understand uh uh this reinsurance strategy uh I I know that we did lot lot of government 43:56 43 minutes, 56 seconds businesses and and our uh reinsurance um uh retentions are closer or our redemptions are closer to 40 to 43%age 44:04 44 minutes, 4 seconds Um so but uh but uh but even if I exclude that we typically are little higher on on feeding business now so 44:14 44 minutes, 14 seconds whether we'll revisit this strategy or or we think that uh uh this will continue uh even going ahead uh even in 44:22 44 minutes, 22 seconds other line of businesses you know given I understand that government business and we need to rely on reinsurance indust 44:33 44 minutes, 33 seconds I didn't yeah I didn't get your uh question. See reinsurance is not a uh strategy. It is how you build your book 44:41 44 minutes, 41 seconds and wherever you see uh no volatility or large risks and those you reassure. So it depends on the uh book competition 44:49 44 minutes, 49 seconds that you have and if you look at retail most of it no uh you would keep on your uh uh books. So if you look at uh be 44:58 44 minutes, 58 seconds government health, be it crop or be it commercial lines of business there would be a reshoot and then accordingly you 45:06 45 minutes, 6 seconds decide how to do so because the balance sheet actually protected in terms of any volatility in terms of large risk. So that is how all the good companies write 45:14 45 minutes, 14 seconds their uh reinsurance and also they look at uh the ratings of reinsurance. So they have to be wellated ranges in times 45:21 45 minutes, 21 seconds of any big losses the rural is able to support that which in the past also we have seen when be it Juan floods or be 45:29 45 minutes, 29 seconds it no Bombay floods we were also the regular project in fact our regional CAT is also uh double that of what the 45:36 45 minutes, 36 seconds industry looks for in terms of the year to return uh perspective which should be there. So fundamentally it's a it's a very well arranged arrangement to take 45:45 45 minutes, 45 seconds care of any eventuality. Uh so depend and also depend on the lines of business myth that you write and how you put it 45:52 45 minutes, 52 seconds together. So what is your apprehension in that? 45:56 45 minutes, 56 seconds No, it's not an application sir. My only question was that even in the retail especially motor we we compared to our 46:03 46 minutes, 3 seconds historical park we see little more these days. Uh so uh so so whether that that approach would be revisited or or or we 46:12 46 minutes, 12 seconds we think that that's still a good thing to do in that it depends on how the market moves and 46:19 46 minutes, 19 seconds what lines of businesses right it it that's why I say the approach does not change the approach remains the same depending on how the market moves what line of businesses I think is how the 46:28 46 minutes, 28 seconds reinsurance operates no it is it's a commercial back you don't change a strategy in terms of know how you reinsure your book you will always reinsure your book in the strategy I 46:36 46 minutes, 36 seconds mentioned to you in terms of wherever there's high volatility you'll have high no reinsurance coming in when you'll have more stability then the reinsurance 46:44 46 minutes, 44 seconds not comes down when you have large risks uh then the reinsurance is again high uh where the PMLs know move high then you 46:51 46 minutes, 51 seconds have no re high when it comes down the reinsurance no evens out when you have cat losses happening then the reinsurance for that no moves up when 46:59 46 minutes, 59 seconds they come down and your chances of catalyst are lower then no then according to the existing books on that so I think The basics of insurance or basics of writing business is the same. 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds It's a combination of various things. 47:12 47 minutes, 12 seconds How does the market move? What is writing? What lines of business writing besides how much insurance do you buy in what lines of business? How do you put that together? 47:21 47 minutes, 21 seconds Understood. Uh that's thank thanks for your answer. Thank you. 47:26 47 minutes, 26 seconds Sank your answer actually lies in the commercial outcomes. uh if you look at it so you know at what price do we 47:34 47 minutes, 34 seconds really get the reinsurance what am I reinsuring like tapen said see essentially our exposure looks higher on 47:41 47 minutes, 41 seconds the seeding side because we li write a lot of bulky business which is crop and government health as you rightly highlighted on the other side we also 47:50 47 minutes, 50 seconds write a lot of large risk and that essentially because of our bank tabs we get a lot of these large accounts so a combination of all of these uh actually 47:59 47 minutes, 59 seconds translates into what a rein insurance strategy is uh now in the end whether I'm making money out of it or no is what 48:07 48 minutes, 7 seconds finally really matters right and our combined ratio visa va industry will answer that question so that's where we stand today 48:16 48 minutes, 16 seconds thank you a reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question next question comes from the line of Tij Punjabi with 48:24 48 minutes, 24 seconds ban tree advisor please go ahead yeah hi thanks for the opportunity I had three questions uh one was on the general insurance 48:33 48 minutes, 33 seconds side. So just wanted to understand how are we seeing the comparative intensity playing out in motor and group health uh 48:39 48 minutes, 39 seconds lines of business. Uh second is on the life insurance side. Uh what is or how 48:46 48 minutes, 46 seconds are we looking at the expected impact of the change in the commission structure that is expected to come in the next uh 48:53 48 minutes, 53 seconds few months. Uh and lastly what is our strategy on the uh alternative business. 48:59 48 minutes, 59 seconds So there was some news around Bajage alternatives uh wherein we're looking to raise about $1 billion. So uh if we can talk about that it would be helpful. 49:08 49 minutes, 8 seconds Thanks. 49:12 49 minutes, 12 seconds So if you um Hello. 49:21 49 minutes, 21 seconds Yeah. Tapan the question on motor and GMC competitive intensity. 49:27 49 minutes, 27 seconds Yeah. on the corre exactly if you if you look at the market and I mentioned uh just previously the combined mutual industry moved up by about uh 7 49:35 49 minutes, 35 seconds percentage point and one quarter move to 128 and move to 121 now that always happens then the competitive intensity is high in the market I think that is 49:43 49 minutes, 43 seconds where no the combination starts moving up so to the point that you have mentioned yes there is competitive intensity in some businesses like motor 49:53 49 minutes, 53 seconds GMC even in fire also no uh there would be content intensity and I think through the last quarter was more because of the 50:00 50 minutes EM uh guidelines. I think a lot of companies used to be above 30 they wanted to ramp up their numbers so that 50:07 50 minutes, 7 seconds they can come within 30 of the EM guidelines. If you uh look at it and pick up companies which have an em over 30 and look at last quarter their 50:16 50 minutes, 16 seconds aggression you will be able to understand how know it moves and then companies which have good com you would watch know that there would be no uh 50:24 50 minutes, 24 seconds position in terms of where they so a lot of things depends on how the company decide to play that in such environment the computer intensity does move up and 50:33 50 minutes, 33 seconds that is why if you'll see from a company's perspective that we would slow down as I mentioned earlier in places where we 50:40 50 minutes, 40 seconds know uh uh companies moving and when you see if the pricing is right uh then we move up because we have no pressure of EM I think we are one of those companies 50:49 50 minutes, 49 seconds which have a comfortable um expense of management and we are well within it in terms of where we are put together so we 50:55 50 minutes, 55 seconds just write business to get our uh em business where it makes sense to write 51:05 51 minutes, 5 seconds okay on the life insurance side the question was on uh commission uh 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds we haven't yet received any message from the IRDA there is no draft circular yet so a lot of this will be discussing 51:22 51 minutes, 22 seconds hypothetically uh but what I do understand is that 51:29 51 minutes, 29 seconds uh the mood seems to be more on uh backending commission from front ending I don't know about the reduction of commission if there's any plan. 51:39 51 minutes, 39 seconds Nobody's really uh got any whiff on this till we get something from them. Uh 51:46 51 minutes, 46 seconds in either case uh if this is executed to the tea uh it should only benefit the 51:53 51 minutes, 53 seconds sector uh it should bring down uh the EUM uh pressures. It should help uh the 52:03 52 minutes, 3 seconds entirely the persistency ratios. it should help uh customers getting a better proposition 52:10 52 minutes, 10 seconds and that is the whole intent of IRA to be able to pass this benefit to the customer. Uh so we just wait for that 52:18 52 minutes, 18 seconds until that comes in. It's it's really very difficult to say anything beyond this at this point. 52:27 52 minutes, 27 seconds Okay. On the alts one I'll just try to summarize. Uh see this was one of the white spaces we had identified. See being a financial services powerhouse we 52:36 52 minutes, 36 seconds realized that you know all business is something which is growing uh pretty healthily uh globally also and not only 52:43 52 minutes, 43 seconds in India and we identified that as a wide space last year and we had called it out in the investor day that uh this 52:50 52 minutes, 50 seconds is a area we will venture into. So in the last uh six to eight months we've actually built up the team and as we 52:57 52 minutes, 57 seconds speak uh we are planning to file uh sorry start the PMS uh part to start with. We've already got approval from 53:05 53 minutes, 5 seconds SEBI. We should uh launch the listed equity and PMS very soon. On u the other 53:14 53 minutes, 14 seconds side, we're trying to launch some CAT 2 and CAT 3 AIFS for which we have filed for approval uh with uh the regulator uh 53:23 53 minutes, 23 seconds for a private equity AI if a real estate EF and hopefully you know in the next uh quarter or so we should get approval for 53:32 53 minutes, 32 seconds uh that as well. So that's currently what we've done. The idea is also to get into some bit of listed equity for which 53:40 53 minutes, 40 seconds we will soon be filing for approvals and uh yeah so this is where we stand today. 53:46 53 minutes, 46 seconds I think in the next uh two quarters is where we will actually uh start rolling out our new products. uh that's a 53:55 53 minutes, 55 seconds strategy as of now and uh also the idea is that we get into a gift city structure to attract some NRI and 54:03 54 minutes, 3 seconds foreign investors to take arbitrage of the tax benefit structure as well. So that's where we are currently uh beyond 54:10 54 minutes, 10 seconds this I think uh in the next few quarters we will talk start talking about it as and when the business uh is launched. 54:19 54 minutes, 19 seconds Thanks that was very helpful. 54:25 54 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question comes from the line of Nitesh Jen with Invest. Please go ahead. 54:36 54 minutes, 36 seconds Uh thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is on life insurance. So on persistency what is happening in your view on the at the industry level and 54:44 54 minutes, 44 seconds for you also that persistency after improving postcoid for four five years this year we are seeing decline across the companies on persistency and how do 54:53 54 minutes, 53 seconds you see persistency trends going forward. 54:57 54 minutes, 57 seconds Yeah. So no very good question and that's something that worries all of us and uh is a focus segment of the sector. 55:05 55 minutes, 5 seconds Uh overall if you look at it there was a set of products which were introduced by 55:13 55 minutes, 13 seconds a few market leaders uh about 12 to 18 months back. Uh these products 55:21 55 minutes, 21 seconds were early gratification products for the customer and we did see uh people 55:28 55 minutes, 28 seconds then not continuing once they did get benefits already available. Now that uh 55:36 55 minutes, 36 seconds we were all expecting lower persistency u in the sector and we 55:43 55 minutes, 43 seconds have just seen a result of that it's the swing has been more than the expectation but largely there's this one bucket uh that has impacted uh the entire sector. 55:54 55 minutes, 54 seconds So while we've grown by we we've grown by uh about 1.8% 8% we expect that the sector has actually grown even further. 56:05 56 minutes, 5 seconds We had this product with us earlier but we did not launch it till it was becoming um you know imitable that uh we 56:13 56 minutes, 13 seconds have to do it u in the market because distribution was just wrapping onto this product. I think we've hopefully the u 56:21 56 minutes, 21 seconds entire sector has learned its lessons and we don't do something like this again as far as we are concerned we've u 56:30 56 minutes, 30 seconds stopped selling this product and since October have anyways been bringing it down uh at the same time has it u 56:38 56 minutes, 38 seconds impacted profitability no more because the persistency uh was already baked in in the entire 56:46 56 minutes, 46 seconds process But these kind of things should largely be avoided in the sector is the way I would answer that question. 56:57 56 minutes, 57 seconds Sure. Sure. Secondly that if you look at the data uh in terms of household preferences so protection and I think they are growing at a very healthy pace 57:05 57 minutes, 5 seconds but on the savings side what we are seeing that the preference towards uh uh mutual funds and equities has been increasing and it's not just one year 57:13 57 minutes, 13 seconds trend. It has been a quite secular trend for last four five years. So in that context and life insurance deposits are losing share in the household savings. 57:21 57 minutes, 21 seconds So in that context how as a industry or as a large life insurance company how do we plan for next let's say five years 57:30 57 minutes, 30 seconds because uh I think every year the share of household savings towards insurance is gradually at a very gradual pace but it is declining for sure. So how we stay 57:39 57 minutes, 39 seconds relevant for from a savings to capture the savings pie of a household. 57:43 57 minutes, 43 seconds Okay. Well, that's a very good question and um I'm sure most people awake. Uh the way we have already the way we've 57:51 57 minutes, 51 seconds looked at it although it's very different uh we have ridden the SIP market in the life as well. Uh we today 58:02 58 minutes, 2 seconds sell a lot of our unit plans in what we 58:08 58 minutes, 8 seconds call as CISO. Uh it's a it's a uh trademark that we've taken. It's a 58:15 58 minutes, 15 seconds systematic in systematic out plan where you put in money every month uh into ulips and u over a period of time take 58:24 58 minutes, 24 seconds the benefit of staying in the market for longer and uh take the benefit of uh 58:32 58 minutes, 32 seconds uh then getting equivalent to monthly benefits over a period of your lifetime 58:39 58 minutes, 39 seconds for under two lakh 50,000 uh ticket size. This product also has all tax breaks available. Uh so it's actually a 58:48 58 minutes, 48 seconds very sweet spot and it's uh something that is growing for us. Uh we've looked at the entire market and nobody's been 58:55 58 minutes, 55 seconds able to run this uh distribution within the annual mode uh products. We expect 59:02 59 minutes, 2 seconds that to bring in a lot more of the benefits that uh SIPs and market do bring in. Uh as for the rest of the 59:11 59 minutes, 11 seconds product architecture uh a lot of that is on structured uh benefits available to 59:17 59 minutes, 17 seconds customers and we are largely linked to uh life goals whether they are on child 59:25 59 minutes, 25 seconds saving whether they are on long-term savings u and of course mortality and uh 59:32 59 minutes, 32 seconds the risk of and longevity. Uh these risks are real and uh while uh in a lot of our spaces the mutual fund market is 59:41 59 minutes, 41 seconds also pretty much playing uh and which is why as you see the group has Bajage group does have another mutual fund and 59:48 59 minutes, 48 seconds a life insurance company we we play in the same space sometimes of course but it's it's a product with a different within a different cask and a different 59:56 59 minutes, 56 seconds benefit. So an annoy product for example is something that people don't u cannot produce but life insurance companies 1:00:04 1 hour, 4 seconds with their long-term guarantees and that as you see as a trend has been going up now that's a very healthy trend I would say uh because nobody else can offer 1:00:13 1 hour, 13 seconds that so there's some unique spaces we have and largely in structured products and uh we expect those to uh just keep 1:00:21 1 hour, 21 seconds growing as there is more wealth in the hand of Indians which is you see is is a positive trend in that is the rest of course is also 1:00:28 1 hour, 28 seconds linked to the distribution we keep creating and uh there is still so much more uh scope if you notice the life 1:00:36 1 hour, 36 seconds insurance sector is possibly invested most in terms of number of branches uh frontline sales and the number of 1:00:43 1 hour, 43 seconds advisers that we have I think that uh should only just keep growing uh in the future so that always remain a positive 1:00:50 1 hour, 50 seconds for sector sure thank thank you and my two question is on the other businesses which is finer markets. So if I look at fins 1:00:59 1 hour, 59 seconds market that revenue has been quite flattish for a long time. It's a digital business ideally it should grow at a pretty healthy pace I think but I think 1:01:06 1 hour, 1 minute, 6 seconds last 15 16 quarters the revenue has been flatish. So what is the strategy here and what is going on here 1:01:16 1 hour, 1 minute, 16 seconds the company has uh okay I'll I'll break this into two parts. The company has two divisions. What we call is Bajad Markets 1:01:25 1 hour, 1 minute, 25 seconds as customerf facing name is our marketplace in BFSI and there we have 1:01:32 1 hour, 1 minute, 32 seconds 100 plus manufacturers as our partners across lending, insurance, AMC's, credit 1:01:39 1 hour, 1 minute, 39 seconds card uh offered by banks and so on so forth. There the revenues grew healthily 1:01:46 1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds up until FY26 wherein as Raman said in his 1:01:52 1 hour, 1 minute, 52 seconds presentation owing to our migration uh of platform and owing to the need to 1:02:02 1 hour, 2 minutes, 2 seconds be compliant to RBI's new DLD guidelines. We had 1:02:09 1 hour, 2 minutes, 9 seconds decreased revenues for one year but the revenues are coming back onto track in 1:02:16 1 hour, 2 minutes, 16 seconds FI27 as per our plan. Also the nature of the revenues is changing. Now we have a few 1:02:25 1 hour, 2 minutes, 25 seconds partnerships which have trail revenue which provides it stability and nonlinearity which will play out as the 1:02:35 1 hour, 2 minutes, 35 seconds quarters pass by and you shall see that uh our stated aim of break even very 1:02:44 1 hour, 2 minutes, 44 seconds soon by the end of this year is a possibility as the quarters pass by within this year. The second reason is 1:02:53 1 hour, 2 minutes, 53 seconds that over the last four years we have invested in building a technology services business. It is a business that 1:03:03 1 hour, 3 minutes, 3 seconds leverages the group's technology capabilities and by that I don't mean only our 1:03:10 1 hour, 3 minutes, 10 seconds companies but uh across all group companies. 1:03:14 1 hour, 3 minutes, 14 seconds We offered these technology solutions to companies within the group. Then we went 1:03:21 1 hour, 3 minutes, 21 seconds outside of the group to rest of the companies in India and offered it to some of the companies. Then we went to 1:03:28 1 hour, 3 minutes, 28 seconds Middle East and now we have established a subsidiary in US and therefore this 1:03:37 1 hour, 3 minutes, 37 seconds phase of investment in technology services as a parallel business. As for the long range strategy that we have for 1:03:45 1 hour, 3 minutes, 45 seconds the company has also uh meant that outwardly looking the revenues look 1:03:53 1 hour, 3 minutes, 53 seconds flattish but both the businesses are poised to deliver and you shall see it in the coming quarters. 1:04:01 1 hour, 4 minutes, 1 second Sure. Sure. And lastly if you can share the number of paying users in Bajins of Health. I think B sensor health is 1:04:08 1 hour, 4 minutes, 8 seconds showing decent growth uh now but what what is the count of paying users there 1:04:18 1 hour, 4 minutes, 18 seconds we are just looking at the data maybe we can take just give it to you offline 1:04:24 1 hour, 4 minutes, 24 seconds will give it we don't have it handy sure s thank you that's it from my side thanks 1:04:33 1 hour, 4 minutes, 33 seconds thank you the last question comes from the line of nishin chawati with kot Please go ahead. 1:04:38 1 hour, 4 minutes, 38 seconds Uh hi. Uh just thanks for thanks for the opportunity. Uh just continuing with health. Uh you know when do you uh you 1:04:46 1 hour, 4 minutes, 46 seconds know based on the current uh business trajectory when do you really uh you know expect a break even 1:04:53 1 hour, 4 minutes, 53 seconds uh I think we are about 2 years from that is what we have envisaged. Uh see if you look at the business model the 1:05:00 1 hour, 5 minutes way we've built it over a period of time. uh and I I I think we called it out during our uh investor day also. Uh 1:05:10 1 hour, 5 minutes, 10 seconds from the scale perspective, I think we've achieved a sign significant part of it. Uh we are seeing that the growth 1:05:17 1 hour, 5 minutes, 17 seconds is healthy 40 50% quarter on quarter number of transactions are just moving up. I think it is the point at which the 1:05:25 1 hour, 5 minutes, 25 seconds operating uh efficiency start kicking in and what we did in our LRS was that in I think 24 months from now we should start 1:05:34 1 hour, 5 minutes, 34 seconds seeing a operating break even that's where we stand today. Now this is where I mean it's basis current estimate uh 1:05:42 1 hour, 5 minutes, 42 seconds now closer after we do the current next year's LRS maybe we'll give you a more finer number in which quarter of which year will be break even. 1:05:51 1 hour, 5 minutes, 51 seconds Sure. and uh in sensor markets uh you know are are you also looking at a sort of an aggregator model like like 1:05:58 1 hour, 5 minutes, 58 seconds probably what a pesa bazar is doing as as a marketplace both pasa bazar as I 1:06:08 1 hour, 6 minutes, 8 seconds understand it and us are not too different online uh and and and there they have various 1:06:16 1 hour, 6 minutes, 16 seconds manufacturers signed up with them we do have our own set of manufacturers who have signed up with us offline uh I'm not sure what you mean by aggregators 1:06:25 1 hour, 6 minutes, 25 seconds that is generally the term used by uh DSAs or in the offline world uh we we 1:06:33 1 hour, 6 minutes, 33 seconds have our own omni channel uh methods but those are mostly to complete the customer journey and to assist the 1:06:40 1 hour, 6 minutes, 40 seconds customers to come online. So um if you mean uh doing a DSA business purely offline then no that's not the plan. 1:06:49 1 hour, 6 minutes, 49 seconds Uh got it got it. uh you know just uh talking about IFRS uh you know you you did mention that you kind of uh you know 1:06:57 1 hour, 6 minutes, 57 seconds work out your numbers uh you know under IFRS 17. So I was curious why would you sort of you know not declare those 1:07:05 1 hour, 7 minutes, 5 seconds numbers or not follow the FRS 17 guidelines from June. See uh Nishant as you uh know that uh there is a lot of 1:07:14 1 hour, 7 minutes, 14 seconds ambiguity uh around uh certain assumptions which one has to take while drawing the IFRS 1:07:22 1 hour, 7 minutes, 22 seconds numbers. for example, you know, level of aggregation currently also different companies who are reporting to ID are 1:07:30 1 hour, 7 minutes, 30 seconds following different methodologies and uh so the so the given uh the quantum of lack of clarity which is 1:07:37 1 hour, 7 minutes, 37 seconds there today in terms of standardizing things across various uh constituents I think uh it's too early to start 1:07:45 1 hour, 7 minutes, 45 seconds publishing these numbers. See if we were a monoline player then it was fairly easy. We could have done it. But for a 1:07:51 1 hour, 7 minutes, 51 seconds multi-line player like us uh taking a call without having any clarity from the regulator or the industry as such you 1:08:00 1 hour, 8 minutes know even the council can decide uh may not be the right thing because you'll end up reporting something and then you have to tweak it a little later. uh so 1:08:08 1 hour, 8 minutes, 8 seconds as a industry at a council level we've been uh you know working jointly with the other uh insurers to bring some kind 1:08:18 1 hour, 8 minutes, 18 seconds of uniformity in terms of uh various decisions one has to take now either the regulator can decide and let us know for 1:08:26 1 hour, 8 minutes, 26 seconds which I'm told that a uh committee has been formed and soon we should get some clarity on some of these matters or as 1:08:33 1 hour, 8 minutes, 33 seconds an industry we will have to take a call uh so this is just one example then there many more things you know like for example what are the tax repercussions 1:08:41 1 hour, 8 minutes, 41 seconds on whatever uh calls we will take uh on one on the uh opening adjustments uh 1:08:48 1 hour, 8 minutes, 48 seconds what will be the tax repercussions so there are multiple such things on which clarity is still awaited and hence uh we 1:08:56 1 hour, 8 minutes, 56 seconds don't believe it's wise to go live uh before uh clarity emerges either from the regulator or from the council and 1:09:05 1 hour, 9 minutes, 5 seconds there's uniformity across players so This is where we stand today and hence uh you would have seen in most of the 1:09:12 1 hour, 9 minutes, 12 seconds companies who announced their results have anyway said that they are seeking forbearance for a year baring some of the monoline ones because they are 1:09:20 1 hour, 9 minutes, 20 seconds relatively in a easier position but amongst the multi-line players in GI and even the larger players on the life side 1:09:28 1 hour, 9 minutes, 28 seconds uh I think everybody is in a similar situation and awaiting clarity and hopefully from uh 1st of April 27 you 1:09:36 1 hour, 9 minutes, 36 seconds will see most of us start publishing the numbers. 1:09:40 1 hour, 9 minutes, 40 seconds Got it. Uh just one uh small one on the on the health side, right? On the on the retail health side, we have seen a fair 1:09:47 1 hour, 9 minutes, 47 seconds amount of uh you know, growth in retail health business uh you know, post the GSC cut. Uh you know, how do we uh you 1:09:56 1 hour, 9 minutes, 56 seconds know, how has been the trend with you because we just get to see the overall uh you know, growth number. We don't get to see the split between you and 1:10:03 1 hour, 10 minutes, 3 seconds renewal. So, it could give some color on that. 1:10:07 1 hour, 10 minutes, 7 seconds Uh where do you want to take that? If you look at the No, I'm there on that. Oh, sorry. Okay. If you look at the return 1:10:14 1 hour, 10 minutes, 14 seconds health and you see after 1:10:28 1 hour, 10 minutes, 28 seconds uh so uh that is how it is overall if you look at uh the movement has happened if you look at our own company I think 1:10:37 1 hour, 10 minutes, 37 seconds quarter four both of them was how much uh quarter Four quarter four the total health growth for the company was standing at 30% versus the industry at 1:10:46 1 hour, 10 minutes, 46 seconds 18.1 detail was 17 right that is good to give it 1:10:54 1 hour, 10 minutes, 54 seconds yeah industry in water but I was also industry world good for the but health 1:11:01 1 hour, 11 minutes, 1 second is important things from country perspective also also that will be there but initially yes there was an upside 1:11:11 1 hour, 11 minutes, 11 seconds but overall I slowly coming back to normaly as businesses. 1:11:17 1 hour, 11 minutes, 17 seconds Uh got it. Got it. And just one last one. Uh you know the wealth business comes under which company or which vertical? 1:11:28 1 hour, 11 minutes, 28 seconds So the wealth company is being set up under Bajage Finance. 1:11:33 1 hour, 11 minutes, 33 seconds Got it. Got it. Got it. Thanks. Those were my questions and all the best. Thank you Nishan. 1:11:40 1 hour, 11 minutes, 40 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for today. We have reached the end of question and answer session. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. 1:11:52 1 hour, 11 minutes, 52 seconds Thank you for all the nice questions and I think there was one question which is lying unanswered. Uh and Nidesh we'll 1:11:59 1 hour, 11 minutes, 59 seconds just reply to that offline. Uh thank you everybody and have a good evening. 1:12:07 1 hour, 12 minutes, 7 seconds Thank you. Thank you. 1:12:09 1 hour, 12 minutes, 9 seconds On behalf of Bajage Pinser Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us.