Apcotex Industries Limited — Q4 FY26

Apcotex Industries Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXyzOiE03ag Published: 5 days ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 FY26 earnings conference call of Aquitex Industries 0:07 7 seconds Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenon mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation 0:16 16 seconds concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your Touchstone phone. 0:26 26 seconds Please note that this conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to hand over to Miss Purwangi Jane 0:34 34 seconds from Valer Advisors. Thank you and over to you ma'am. 0:39 39 seconds Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and a warm welcome to you all. My name is Prangi Jen from Valerum Advisers. We represent the investor relations of 0:47 47 seconds Aquoteex Industries Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings call for the fourth quarter and financial year ended 2026. 0:59 59 seconds Before we begin, a quick cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking 1:07 1 minute, 7 seconds statements are subject to risk and uncertaintities which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. 1:14 1 minute, 14 seconds Such statements are based on management's belief as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to the management. 1:22 1 minute, 22 seconds Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. 1:30 1 minute, 30 seconds The purpose of today's earnings conference call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. 1:39 1 minute, 39 seconds Now I would like to introduce you to the management participating with us in today's earnings call and hand it over to them for their opening remarks. We 1:47 1 minute, 47 seconds have it Mr. Abidat Choki vice chairman and managing director and Mr. Vive Takur 1:54 1 minute, 54 seconds chief financial officer. Without any dealing I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Vive Takur for his opening remarks. Thank you and over to you sir. 2:06 2 minutes, 6 seconds Good afternoon everyone. It is a pleasure to welcome you all to the earnings conference call for the fourth quarter in financial year ended 2026. 2:16 2 minutes, 16 seconds I hope you had an opportunity to review the financial results and earnings presentation which have been circulated 2:23 2 minutes, 23 seconds and uploaded on our website and the stock exchange. 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds Let me provide you with a brief overview of the financial and operational highlights for the fourth quarter and financial year ended 2026. 2:37 2 minutes, 37 seconds For Q4 FI26, the revenue operating revenue stood at INR 398 crores registering a growth of 14% yearonear. 2:48 2 minutes, 48 seconds This was supported by higher volumes and continued pricing discipline. While total volumes for the quarter grew by 2:55 2 minutes, 55 seconds 10% yearonear, this reflects steady demand across key segments. 3:02 3 minutes, 2 seconds Operating IITA stood at INR 55 crores up 42% yearonear with IITA margins which have improved to 3:11 3 minutes, 11 seconds 13.76 which is driven by higher volumes, better realizations and enhanced operational efficiency. 3:20 3 minutes, 20 seconds Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 35 crores which reflects a strong 3:25 3 minutes, 25 seconds growth of 107% growth year on year at margins improved to 8.73%. 3:36 3 minutes, 36 seconds This performance was supported by a finance disciplined execution across key operational parameters along with a 3:43 3 minutes, 43 seconds continued focus on cost optimization and efficiency improvements. 3:48 3 minutes, 48 seconds We also continued to execute our ongoing capex projects with rigor and discipline aimed at supporting strategic growth and capacity expansion. 3:59 3 minutes, 59 seconds During the quarters, the ongoing West Asia crisis led to heightened volatility in raw material prices and some 4:06 4 minutes, 6 seconds moderation in export demand across select markets. In response, we proactively secured key raw materials to ensure uninterrupted customer supplies. 4:17 4 minutes, 17 seconds This strategy help has helped us maintain operational stability during the period. While we witnessed some 4:24 4 minutes, 24 seconds modest impact on export sales, the company continues to remain resilient with limited direct exposure. 4:32 4 minutes, 32 seconds Demand is stable across key core markets and the proactive risk mitigation measures help us uh along with a strong 4:41 4 minutes, 41 seconds balance sheet position help us navigate this volatility. 4:46 4 minutes, 46 seconds For FYI 26, the company delivered a strong performance, achieving record high sales volumes, up 14% yearonear and 4:56 4 minutes, 56 seconds highest ever export volumes also grew growing at 14% year on year. 5:03 5 minutes, 3 seconds This reflects a robust demand across both domestic as well as international markets. While operating revenue stood 5:11 5 minutes, 11 seconds at 1442 crores uh which which is a growth of 4% year on year 5:19 5 minutes, 19 seconds operating IITA reached a new peak at INR 177 crores up 42% yearon year IITA 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds margins expanded to 12.31% for the year supported by strong volume growth improved margins and higher capacity utilization. 5:41 5 minutes, 41 seconds Profit after tax for the year stood at 101 crores reflecting a growth of 88% year on year. Fat margins are at 7.03%. 5:51 5 minutes, 51 seconds Company has maintained a strong liquidity position during the year and remained net cash positive with cash and investments exceeding borrowings by 6:00 6 minutes approximately 70 crores. Our net debt to equity also improved to 0.08. 08. 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds Now see the board has announced a final dividend of 5 and a half rupees per equity share which is subject to 6:15 6 minutes, 15 seconds shareholders approval. This takes the total dividend for FYI 26 to 8 rupees per equity share including the interim dividend which was declared earlier. 6:26 6 minutes, 26 seconds Before I conclude, I would like to briefly highlight certain provisions and accounting adjustments recognized during the quarter. 6:34 6 minutes, 34 seconds Employee benefit expenses include certain provisions of approximately 14 crores which relate to long-term 6:43 6 minutes, 43 seconds incentive planing litigations based on external legal advice and higher gratuitity and leave and catchment obligations arising from policy changes. 6:54 6 minutes, 54 seconds Additionally, an impairment assessment of turbine and related accessories at our Valia facility. It resulted in recognition of impairment loss of about 7:02 7 minutes, 2 seconds five four crores which has been charged under other expenses. Further following an internal technical assessment we 7:10 7 minutes, 10 seconds revised the useful life of certain plant and machinery resulting into additional depreciation of about 2 cr during the quarter. These 7:20 7 minutes, 20 seconds accounting adjustments better reflects the economic life of these assets. Some of these items are oneoff and may not 7:28 7 minutes, 28 seconds recur. Uh with this now I open the floor for questions and question and answer session. Thank you. 7:37 7 minutes, 37 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. 7:42 7 minutes, 42 seconds Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then one on their touchstone phone. 7:47 7 minutes, 47 seconds If you wish to remove yourself from the question, you may press star and two. 7:54 7 minutes, 54 seconds Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. 7:58 7 minutes, 58 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question ascends. 8:03 8 minutes, 3 seconds Participants are requested to limit themselves to only two questions each per participant and may rejoin the queue for any follow-up questions. 8:15 8 minutes, 15 seconds Our first question comes from the line of Adita Ketan from Smith's Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. 8:27 8 minutes, 27 seconds Thank you sir for the opportunity. So just a couple of questions and and congrats on a good set of quarters. uh sir during the quarter I didn't 8:35 8 minutes, 35 seconds understood this employee benefit expense you had also mentioned in your footnotes that this uh some 13 cr of additional cost has been taken towards some pending 8:44 8 minutes, 44 seconds litigations on on legal advice uh toward graduity leave we have not seen these sort of increase uh when we look at the 8:52 8 minutes, 52 seconds history over the last five six years this additional number what is exactly if you can quantify what is this based 8:59 8 minutes, 59 seconds on Sure. Yeah. And what's your second question? You said you have two questions. 9:07 9 minutes, 7 seconds The second question I would like to know uh so so this quarter again like this policy changes in depreciation like 9:15 9 minutes, 15 seconds suddenly why we are changing some policies on depreciation like in a quarter where we are uh we are able to get good benefits but still these sort 9:23 9 minutes, 23 seconds of some provision some uh one-offs and other expenses also of some 4 crores. uh if you can also quantify what is the 9:30 9 minutes, 30 seconds turbine related losses uh exactly and uh also why there is a policy change in deprecation particularly only in this quarter. 9:40 9 minutes, 40 seconds Sure. So uh I'll answer both questions. 9:43 9 minutes, 43 seconds I think these are all everything to do with certain provisions that were made and I realize that they are higher and other people may have questions on the same. So maybe I'll spend a little bit 9:50 9 minutes, 50 seconds of time on this and hoping that uh you know everyone else also would have whoever has similar questions are those 9:58 9 minutes, 58 seconds are also answered. So first to answer your question on the employee benefits expense there are three or four provisions that were taken by our uh of 10:08 10 minutes, 8 seconds course the management auditor audit committee board it's gone through the whole process. It was the end of the year so there were all uh provisions 10:16 10 minutes, 16 seconds that were taken where we thought was prudent to take them. for one was a a new policy on long-term incentives for certain senior management employees that 10:23 10 minutes, 23 seconds we have just introduced in the last quarter. It is to be paid out over a period of five years. So that provision has been made um that will be paid out 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds in the fifth year in 2030. So that provision has been made uh this year and that will be made every quarter from now on. Obviously this year since it's 10:39 10 minutes, 39 seconds happened at the end of the year, the entire year's provision has come into this quarter. Going forward the provision will be every quarter will be less. So that's on long-term uh sort of 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds incentive. That's one reason. The second reason is um there are some pending 10:55 10 minutes, 55 seconds litigations uh that were uh against the company and again this was discussed at the with the auditor audit committee. It 11:03 11 minutes, 3 seconds was transparently discussed with the board as well and we thought it was prudent to make a provision at this stage. Um unfortunately I can't talk a 11:10 11 minutes, 10 seconds lot about it since uh the matter is in the courts and uh I think in the next you know 2 3 years or whenever it is 11:18 11 minutes, 18 seconds some clarity will emerge at that point we will see but at this point it again we thought it was conservative 11:24 11 minutes, 24 seconds [clears throat] 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds it was a conservative call uh but a prudent call to take that provision. Uh the third thing was some changes in graduity policy that happened this year. 11:33 11 minutes, 33 seconds This is not a uh it doesn't it's neutral to the company. It's just that actuarial valuation changed due to certain 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds graduity policies that we have undertaken. You know obviously the new wage code that has come about sort of triggered this discussion. So we made some changes in our graduity policy as 11:50 11 minutes, 50 seconds well and as a result of which we've had to uh make a provision of that as well. 11:55 11 minutes, 55 seconds Again it's the numbers are in the notes for all those three and all those three together have had that impact in on employee uh benefits that line item. The 12:05 12 minutes, 5 seconds second question on the depreciation actually you know this is a cogen power plant that we had invested in a few years ago. Now in the last few quarters 12:14 12 minutes, 14 seconds you have not been using the turbine because coal prices have been uh you know or the power available from the 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds grid is significantly cheaper than generating our own power. When we had made the investment at that time coal prices were lower so it made sense and and the grid power prices were higher. 12:34 12 minutes, 34 seconds So as a result of which again we found it prudent to kind of impair this turbine which at some point we may even 12:41 12 minutes, 41 seconds sell it. Right now we've just kept it as a backup but uh we may choose to sort of liquidate that as well. And so as a 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds result of that you know all the cogen power plant assets which were sort of um you know the depreciation was taken over 40 years has been reduced to 15 years. 12:58 12 minutes, 58 seconds So that's resulted in the change in depreciation. So it's it's linked to the two. So we felt that you know it was a 13:05 13 minutes, 5 seconds uh end of the year um sort of and we wanted to sort of clean up whatever pending issues there were and so these were one mostly you know oneoff nature 13:14 13 minutes, 14 seconds and we don't expect them to be recurring. One more question. Sorry to interrupt Mr. Kan. 13:21 13 minutes, 21 seconds Let him answer since this is let him ask one more followup please sag and then we can move on. Sure. 13:28 13 minutes, 28 seconds So I wanted to know uh is it possible to quantify the inventory gain during the copper and the nitro latics and any updates like where are we standing today 13:36 13 minutes, 36 seconds in terms of utilizations and what are the what is the over supply situation today and what are we expecting like uh 13:43 13 minutes, 43 seconds to ramp up or or to get some operating leverage for 27 and 28. Yes sir. Thank you. 13:49 13 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you. Thank you. So inventory gains yes there has been some inventory gains. I don't think it has been significant. 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds Perhaps there has been you know Jan Feb was kind of uh in March there was some runup I guess but honestly you know March 1st is 14:03 14 minutes, 3 seconds when the whole war situation started. So I would say the uh there was not a significant inventory gain but some 14:10 14 minutes, 10 seconds inventory gains. I think largely there has been margin expansion in line latex that has definitely been one of the 14:17 14 minutes, 17 seconds reasons for a good quarter. the war uh uh situation we were actually better placed than some of our competitors in March in the month of March. So that 14:26 14 minutes, 26 seconds helped for sure in Nitra latex gain. As far as Nitra latex margins but as far as uh long-term is concerned it still remains an over supply we running at 14:34 14 minutes, 34 seconds almost full 100% capac capacity utilization now for nitra latex uh and at least going forward we expect to run at full 100% capacity utilization. From 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds a capacity utilization standpoint, uh, no issue. But from a margin standpoint, short-term margins are certainly 14:50 14 minutes, 50 seconds improved right now uh because of the war situation and some of our competitors have not been able to uh consistently supply material uh to our customers. So 15:00 15 minutes that's helped. Long-term it as I've been mentioning is that it's improving slowly and we expect it to continue to improve. 15:08 15 minutes, 8 seconds There might be some short-term gains due to this war situation in terms of margins for Aquoteex. Thank you sir. 15:15 15 minutes, 15 seconds Thank you. 15:17 15 minutes, 17 seconds Thank you. Your next question comes from Ankit Minocha from Adzi Ventures family office. Please go ahead. 15:26 15 minutes, 26 seconds Hi. Um good afternoon. Can you hear me? Yes. Go ahead. 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah. Hi. So congratulations on the good set of numbers. uh I mean um just looking at or I think I did for Q4 I 15:40 15 minutes, 40 seconds believe it's like uh amongst the highest numbers in the last few quarters. So would it be safe to assume this as like 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds the new base for say the upcoming four quarters ahead for Q1 to Q4 or do you 15:54 15 minutes, 54 seconds seek some kind of marginal compression and fraud? 16:00 16 minutes Yeah, as you know, we you know generally don't give any guidance for future quarters. Our business is fairly volatile quarteron quarter. There are 16:08 16 minutes, 8 seconds some quarters and we've had a you know seven eight difficult quarters in terms of margins also. This quarter obviously margin has been uh margins margins have 16:16 16 minutes, 16 seconds been much better. difficult to say given the current war situation but uh look I 16:23 16 minutes, 23 seconds would say strategically as we are at a higher capacity utilization levels we expect margins to be better than the average of last year at least for this 16:32 16 minutes, 32 seconds coming year quarteron quarter it's really difficult to say because there are so many uncertainties in in the business first and if you see the last 16:39 16 minutes, 39 seconds one year there's been so many things from tariffs to this war you know to to lots of raw material issues in general. 16:47 16 minutes, 47 seconds So difficult to say quart on quot um and secondly just want to understand 16:56 16 minutes, 56 seconds your latest read on um the add uh that was kind of sitting. So any read if it's coming in or not or uh if you've already 17:06 17 minutes, 6 seconds built that benefit into your benefit or lack of benefit into your FI27 planning. 17:11 17 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah, we I mean we never built it into the planning anyway. It was something that we wanted our some support from the government. Unfortunately, the finance, 17:20 17 minutes, 20 seconds as I mentioned in the last call as well, the finance ministry did not notify the anti-dumping duties that were recommended by the DJTR, which is part 17:27 17 minutes, 27 seconds of the commerce ministry. Um, there are some other legal cases on the same issue, not Aquitex, but there are they 17:36 17 minutes, 36 seconds are ongoing. So, we're waiting and watching on what happens there. In one or two cases, um, a high court has 17:44 17 minutes, 44 seconds actually given an order to levy provisionally and provisionally levy anti-dumping duty. Uh, but it hasn't 17:51 17 minutes, 51 seconds happened yet. So, I'm not sure how it's going to play out. 17:56 17 minutes, 56 seconds If it makes sense, we will see if you want to go legal, but however, we have not built that into our plans. We into our plans. We continue to uh expand and 18:06 18 minutes, 6 seconds we continue the expansion project for NBR which will almost double our NBR capacity by next year 18:14 18 minutes, 14 seconds and we feel fairly confident that uh you know as far as a return on investments with all the work that we have done over the last few years uh with or without 18:22 18 minutes, 22 seconds anti-dumping it should be good but uh but you know obviously yes we wanted some support from the government for a 18:29 18 minutes, 29 seconds period of 5 years uh since we were coming up with a significant ificantly large NBR plant all the best. Thanks. 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds Thank you. 18:41 18 minutes, 41 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sergeant Kapoor from Antifragile Thinking. Please go ahead. 18:48 18 minutes, 48 seconds Yeah. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Um just two questions. uh can the existing asset support further growth or has 18:57 18 minutes, 57 seconds utilization already entered the constraint zone because the the new capex is further away and so going into 19:04 19 minutes, 4 seconds fiscal 27 I mean how do you see at an overall aggregate basis and the capacity that is still available 19:12 19 minutes, 12 seconds no you're right it is so uh for us capacities you know we have four or five different plants in our two two locations five different plants in our 19:21 19 minutes, 21 seconds two locations So I would say in one or two plants we still have some capacity available but uh for NBR for example we 19:31 19 minutes, 31 seconds uh we are we were at 100% capacity utilization for a few quarters and will continue to be so for the next four quarters until new capacity comes up in 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds Q1 of the following year following financial year. Um for synthetic latex we are building new capacity again which 19:47 19 minutes, 47 seconds will come up in the following financial year. there we have some leeway and we can grow. Um 19:55 19 minutes, 55 seconds in nitral latex for Q4 we were at almost full capacity utilization. So that will continue to be at full capacity utilization but there we hope margin 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds expansion will be there over the next four quarters. So it's a you know every uh business has uh we are running at 20:11 20 minutes, 11 seconds fairly high capacity utilizations. Yes, that's true. So there is some leeway for growth. Fortunately for us some of the 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds you know we were anticipating uh when I look back of course in 2020 hindsight we were anticipating to reach full capacity utilization in some some 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds of our products by Q2 or Q3 of this financial year 26 27 but fortunately Q4 20:33 20 minutes, 33 seconds was very strong for us so yeah that's where we are today. Sure. Sure. That's helpful. 20:42 20 minutes, 42 seconds What part of the current margin expansion you think is a structural um operational improvement versus temporary 20:50 20 minutes, 50 seconds you know raw material spread uh kind of a tailwind because there's a lot of um chaos and disorder happening globally as 20:57 20 minutes, 57 seconds as you have acknowledged um over previous earnings um calls as well. So given that the world is still very 21:04 21 minutes, 4 seconds fragile and random. I mean how much of this improvement um we should take as structural and how much is you know just pure luck or cyclical. 21:16 21 minutes, 16 seconds I think look if you see Jan and Feb were fairly stable months right the tariffs were gone there were no major wars. Uh 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds so I think Jan and Feb for us were very good months. Sure, in the month of March, we did have we were better placed than some of our competitors. We took 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds some really good decisions in the past that paid off. So there might be some some amount of uh as you would say 21:40 21 minutes, 40 seconds cyclicality or temporary benefits that would have come hard to quantify but in this quarter I think uh not a very large amount in Q4. 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds That's helpful. That's helpful. That's all from my side. Thank you. 21:57 21 minutes, 57 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mahul Pawani from 40 cents. Please go ahead. 22:05 22 minutes, 5 seconds Hello sir. Congratulations on a great set of numbers and thank you for the opportunity. What are the current uh Thank you sir. What are the current 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds utilization levels across uh latex number capacity? 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds I would say we are in for Q4. I'm talking about Q4. Yeah. not for the whole financial year but for Q4 we were 22:27 22 minutes, 27 seconds between 90 and 100% across all our plants all our factories and sir uh are we planning any uh capex 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds which is going to bring up some more capacity in the new uh in FI27 22:44 22 minutes, 44 seconds FY27 no most of this capacity will come on stream in FY28 so in FY27 we will have growth for the 22:54 22 minutes, 54 seconds whole year. Uh and yes, there are some debottlenecking projects which will help a little bit. Um 23:02 23 minutes, 2 seconds but but yes, you're right. There isn't uh there is no major capacity expansion plan or project that will come on stream in FI27. 23:10 23 minutes, 10 seconds And sir, which which quarter of FI28 will have will see more additional capacity? Uh I think the Q1 of FI28. 23:20 23 minutes, 20 seconds Okay. Okay. I mean sir uh how how with the kind of current geopolitical scenario uh 23:29 23 minutes, 29 seconds are we having uh how many uh I mean now that most of it is out of but still there is some kind of conflict going on. 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds So I believe that we had uh we had inventory of raw materials earlier on. 23:42 23 minutes, 42 seconds So how are we placed for the upcoming two quarters? 23:48 23 minutes, 48 seconds Oh great question. Look, I think as there are the way we look at it there are two kinds of raw materials. ones or three kinds rather ones that are available in India those obviously were 23:57 23 minutes, 57 seconds better placed but even for those raw materials that are available in India you know their upstream supply chain sometimes is an issue when they're importing especially from the Middle 24:05 24 minutes, 5 seconds East then second set of raw materials that we were importing directly from the Middle East from Saudi Kuwait that were affected immediately right as soon as 24:12 24 minutes, 12 seconds the war started within the first week as as soon as so that remains an issue and it remains 24:18 24 minutes, 18 seconds a challenge fortunately we were you We've been able to run our plant without one even one day of shutdown uh because 24:27 24 minutes, 27 seconds we were able to take some bold calls in early March. We covered material as Vive mentioned in opening in his opening remarks that we took a risk covered a 24:35 24 minutes, 35 seconds lot of the material so that we could keep the plants running in March and April as soon as the material stopped from the Middle East. The third set of materials is that comes from other parts 24:43 24 minutes, 43 seconds of the world which continues right obviously their prices have gone up but availability so far is not a problem. 24:48 24 minutes, 48 seconds The problem is is is even though there is a ceasefire today the state of hormonal is still closed. With the state of hormones being closed there are a lot 24:56 24 minutes, 56 seconds not only oil but a lot of petrochemicals that the world is dependent on um you know on on the Middle East region for 25:05 25 minutes, 5 seconds those petrochemicals. So those we don't know what the long-term impact of that is. As of now, it seems that we have 25:13 25 minutes, 13 seconds managed managed it quite well. But honestly, um it's kind of day-to-day, you know, I would not say dayto-day, but 25:20 25 minutes, 20 seconds week to week, you know, situation. So far, we feel very confident that we're covered up to the end of June. 25:27 25 minutes, 27 seconds Right. Right. Right. So, I appreciate your transparent uh uh response on this one. Thank you so much. 25:34 25 minutes, 34 seconds Thank you. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Ankit Canoria from Zenesh. Please go ahead. 25:44 25 minutes, 44 seconds Yeah, thank you for taking my question. Uh so uh this FI26 uh we have generated 25:52 25 minutes, 52 seconds 200 plus crores of cash flow from operating uh activity. So now and I see 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second around 50 crores of that is because of working capital adjustments. So uh how do we see it rationally from here? 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds Should we consider this as how much of this should be structural and how much of this can be one time or if you can just throw more color that would be very 26:19 26 minutes, 19 seconds helpful sir. No, nothing is one time or very little is one time because because it's uh I mean the the whole year in fact was a challenging year in some 26:26 26 minutes, 26 seconds sense only in March you can argue there were some perhaps short-term benefits but uh the remaining 11 months you know 26:36 26 minutes, 36 seconds were sort of regular 11 months with challenges so we expected to only improve 26:43 26 minutes, 43 seconds okay generation that you mentioned on an annual basis Okay. Okay. So I mean basically the when 26:52 26 minutes, 52 seconds I look at the working capital situation over here it is a positive number in this compared to the general uh uh sense 27:00 27 minutes of always working capital being many. So that's that was my main question. 27:05 27 minutes, 5 seconds Ah okay some working you're right. So that way because working capital require the you know raw material prices were fairly muted for about 9 or 10 months of 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds the year that definitely helped with uh sort of cash generation. so to speak. Um now obviously in the current context 27:22 27 minutes, 22 seconds it's exactly the opposite where the prices are the highest in many many years. So some of it now will be sucked 27:29 27 minutes, 29 seconds back into working capital from that point of view. Yes. But I meant from a profitability point of view we only expected to improve. So overall working 27:39 27 minutes, 39 seconds capital requirements may go up and down based on sort of raw material pricing and volatility. But overall I think uh 27:46 27 minutes, 46 seconds you know structurally from a profit point of view we expect things to you know only improve from last year. 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds Sure sir and my second question was related to appco bill. So we had a good uh run on appco bill for three four years and I think this year probably we 28:02 28 minutes, 2 seconds have not grown that much. If you can throw more color as to how do we see that and uh what are your views over the next two three years directionally in 28:11 28 minutes, 11 seconds general I'm not asking for any guidance and uh how is the competition shaping up in this yeah that's it 28:18 28 minutes, 18 seconds yeah actually and even after build we've had we finished the year quite strong so we've had double digit growth there were some internal issues for us in terms of 28:27 28 minutes, 27 seconds uh you know manpower in the beginning of the year but that's been now corrected we've looked at we looked our distribution channel. So I think we have 28:35 28 minutes, 35 seconds a fairly good team in place. We have a new leader who's taken over last year. 28:39 28 minutes, 39 seconds So we feel uh fairly confident that we will continue to grow at double digits. 28:45 28 minutes, 45 seconds Uh given as I said we we are in a niche space in a few geographies, a few products. Um we are trying to improve 28:54 28 minutes, 54 seconds and grow in that and as and when there is uh any additional information that is material in nature, we'll let you know. 29:01 29 minutes, 1 second Okay. Thank you so much and all the best sir. Thank you. 29:05 29 minutes, 5 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sarup Shra from QRC. Please go ahead. 29:12 29 minutes, 12 seconds Yes. Hi, good afternoon and uh congratulations to the team on a great set of numbers. Um Aid first question on 29:18 29 minutes, 18 seconds um Nitra Dex is uh how how is sort of profitability shaped up in that quarter and now is that contributing to overall profitability? 29:31 29 minutes, 31 seconds The yes the short answer is yes of course we've had uh just to recap the history that when we commissioned the 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds plant in April 23 or March 23 um obviously it was at the down cycle it 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds was the lowest and all of 23 towards the 2324 and 2425 the margins were the lowest they've ever 29:53 29 minutes, 53 seconds been even pre-COVID then things started improving in 2526 and every quarter we've seen a gradual improvement in margin 30:01 30 minutes, 1 second In Q4, there was a significant improvement, but as one of the as I mentioned to one of the callers earlier, especially the month of March could have 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds been a little bit of a blip because we were better placed than some of our competitors. So, we got excellent margins. So some of it may again come down uh in the coming few quarters but 30:19 30 minutes, 19 seconds as of now uh nitri latex structurally remains still a challenging business but temporarily it's it's been very good for 30:27 30 minutes, 27 seconds us in terms of margins. 30:31 30 minutes, 31 seconds That's great to hear. And uh secondly on the new capex that we are doing which is obviously 12 months away. So maybe 30:38 30 minutes, 38 seconds slightly medium-term question on that that given the uh geopolitical challenges etc. the world that we are 30:46 30 minutes, 46 seconds living in maybe we assume that this is status 4 or that things are not going to be normal let's say for a while any sort 30:54 30 minutes, 54 seconds of medium-term plan on how we are placed do we need to do something to der sales are there suppliers we can sort of 31:02 31 minutes, 2 seconds engage with just want to understand big picture on the two three main raw materials that we use how the team is thinking about that please 31:10 31 minutes, 10 seconds no you're right I mean look it's as I mentioned to one of the previous callers very difficult because I'll just give you example of one raw material called styrene that we were importing largely 31:19 31 minutes, 19 seconds from the Middle East, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Obviously those with the state of almost being closed those avenues are 31:26 31 minutes, 26 seconds closed right now. So large chunk is coming from China now. Uh so so far so good. We've been able to get it uh and I 31:34 31 minutes, 34 seconds think covered till the end of June. It's so hard to predict what will happen in the future. I I wish I could. uh but you 31:41 31 minutes, 41 seconds know we feel fairly confident the way things have been initially in the month of March obviously there was a lot of panic but I think supply chains in the world are quite resilient and thanks to 31:50 31 minutes, 50 seconds the Chinese overcapacity in in most manufacturing we've been able to ride through that some other raw materials like butine are available in India so as 31:59 31 minutes, 59 seconds long as they don't have an issue with their upstream um supplies we don't expect any issue there and most 32:07 32 minutes, 7 seconds of the others also as of now the issue in getting material. It doesn't seem to be an issue 32:14 32 minutes, 14 seconds and we're hoping that in the next few weeks if the war ends and the state of war goes open and things normalize then of course then everything is back to normal soon hopefully. 32:23 32 minutes, 23 seconds Understood. Congratulations and a great show on the uh cash flow uh in this tough times. I mean it's an outstanding uh work by the team to pay down the 32:32 32 minutes, 32 seconds amount of debt that we've paid down and the balance sheet is as strong as ever. 32:36 32 minutes, 36 seconds That's great job done. Yeah, I mean that's the idea. That was the idea like we want to keep a strong balance sheet even in the most difficult times and as you rightly said the team deserves all 32:44 32 minutes, 44 seconds the credit. Uh we worked day and night in the month of March and April to ensure that our customers don't suffer, our plants keep running and our customers plants keep running. So that's 32:52 32 minutes, 52 seconds been the endeavor and I'm glad it worked out. Another thing I'll mention though is that you know uh and some of this doesn't get reported but managing risks 33:01 33 minutes, 1 second and I'll give you a small example is all both our plants run on multiple energy streams. So for example our Taloja Valia 33:09 33 minutes, 9 seconds plant we can use gas we can use coal and so in this context when in the month of March and April as you knew there was as 33:16 33 minutes, 16 seconds you know there was a shortage of gas uh and we were able to you know manage without even a single day of production loss whereas I know many other companies 33:25 33 minutes, 25 seconds especially in Gujarat had to cut down production by 50%. uh and more. Uh so our team has worked really hard to manage this. 33:34 33 minutes, 34 seconds That is indeed heartening to hear. Um thank you very much and all the best for the next few years. 33:41 33 minutes, 41 seconds Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Faruk Pandol from Westa Fund Management. Please go ahead. 33:53 33 minutes, 53 seconds Hello. Yes, Faruk. Good afternoon. 33:56 33 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Good afternoon. Hi Abid uh congratulations on the excellent numbers. I uh just some of my questions 34:04 34 minutes, 4 seconds have been answered. My first question was on uh Nitri latex. Uh you know when we had initially commissioned the 34:11 34 minutes, 11 seconds project we had spoken of a uh sort of step up increase in capacity at a very low cost. uh is that still applicable 34:20 34 minutes, 20 seconds and could it be possible that in the next 69 months we could get some capacity there all going well with with 34:27 34 minutes, 27 seconds growth and margins and uh etc. Is is that a possibility or will that too uh if it has to happen get pushed into the following year. 34:37 34 minutes, 37 seconds So the question is yes it's absolutely the the plan is ready we are uh ready to sort of go ahead and do that. We were waiting just to see how margin 34:46 34 minutes, 46 seconds improvement happens. Uh honestly the margin improvements as I mentioned to a previous caller have been better than expected in uh Jan and Feb were good. 34:55 34 minutes, 55 seconds March was excellent. April was also is excellent but that may be partly because of this war situation. Uh so we're 35:03 35 minutes, 3 seconds waiting to see how things land once things normalize. Otherwise we're ready to go ahead with it and it's it's almost all ready. to the question of bringing 35:11 35 minutes, 11 seconds in equipment and just as long as the lead time is just uh the equipment lead time ordering and delivery of equipment. 35:19 35 minutes, 19 seconds So that we expect will be you know 8 to 9 months in the current context. Um I think we will probably take a call on 35:26 35 minutes, 26 seconds that in the next 3 to 6 months but again if that capacity comes on stream it'll be in the next financial year not this financial year. 35:33 35 minutes, 33 seconds Got it. And then I just had a question on some of these numbers that you mentioned in your uh uh sort of initial 35:41 35 minutes, 41 seconds comments. Uh firstly, where are we with regards to net cash? 35:47 35 minutes, 47 seconds You know, we we have all our investments and uh cash uh etc. And then we've got some debt. So where are we on a net cash 35:55 35 minutes, 55 seconds basis and uh and you know relating to the earlier comments apart from the uh 36:01 36 minutes, 1 second litigation uh based uh provision which you have taken what else from all the numerous provisions that you've mentioned are non-recurring. 36:13 36 minutes, 13 seconds The litigation is also non-recurring. 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds Right. So apart from that what else is non-recurring? 36:20 36 minutes, 20 seconds uh the long-term incentive will be recurring but the difference will be that I think for the long-term incentive 36:27 36 minutes, 27 seconds uh Vive you want to call if you if uh I think it's that will that 2.7 crores is for the whole year and going forward 36:34 36 minutes, 34 seconds it'll be done every quarter right yes correct yeah so that will be recurring and the other thing was on graduity uh policy 36:44 36 minutes, 44 seconds changes that was also a one-time thing that will be non-recurring right the impairment of the asset That one asset turbine is non-recurring. Of course, it's a onetime thing. 36:54 36 minutes, 54 seconds Correct. Correct. 36:55 36 minutes, 55 seconds Addition depreciation we have taken for the year. I guess that would be kind of recurring because we've reduced the useful life from 40 years to 15 for a 37:03 37 minutes, 3 seconds few assets that were linked to the turbine and just very I I would say majority is non-recurring. There'll be some amount 37:10 37 minutes, 10 seconds that'll be 3 four crores that may be recurring. 37:14 37 minutes, 14 seconds Correct. So the and the 260 lakhs which was the incentive that is that will still be obviously it won't be 260 lakh 37:22 37 minutes, 22 seconds it will be 260 lakhs peranom that's the rate at which the lensing will happen there's an accounting thing about sort 37:30 37 minutes, 30 seconds of uh time value so that may differ every every year but yes peranom correct it's peranom so now from now onwards we 37:37 37 minutes, 37 seconds will be um pro providing it for it every quarter sure providing It's providing for it every 37:45 37 minutes, 45 seconds quarter but the amount will be on relating to this amount up or down on a peranom basis the the total amount. 37:53 37 minutes, 53 seconds Got it. Exactly. Yeah. Got it. 37:57 37 minutes, 57 seconds And the and the and the cash position or the or the net debt position. 38:03 38 minutes, 3 seconds Um V you have that number for as on March 31st and it's only improved since then but as on March 31st 38:11 38 minutes, 11 seconds as of March 31st we have a total debt of about 90 crores and our investments and cash bank balances are 160 odd crores. 38:22 38 minutes, 22 seconds So when you said it includes uh working capital loans as well right? 38:27 38 minutes, 27 seconds It includes all the loans entire debt is 92 crores term loan and working capital. Yeah. So, so, so we are positive by about 70 or 80 crores. 38:37 38 minutes, 37 seconds That's correct. 38:38 38 minutes, 38 seconds Great. All the best and uh once again congratulations. Thanks a lot. Thank you. 38:46 38 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shahuja from Financial Consulting. Please go ahead. Sorry, I 38:53 38 minutes, 53 seconds didn't hear the name. Can you repeat Saga? 38:57 38 minutes, 57 seconds Sure. It is uh the line of Mr. Rudra Raha. Sure. 39:05 39 minutes, 5 seconds Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. 39:07 39 minutes, 7 seconds Congratulations. Uh, sorry to interrupt. Mr. Rah, you're sounding a lot distant. If you're using a speaker phone or any external headset, maybe request you use the handset, please. 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. Is this better? Yes, this is much better. 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds Yeah. I wanted to ask on a basket basis, how much percentage increase have we seen on the raw material side? 39:33 39 minutes, 33 seconds Sorry, can you repeat the question? I didn't. 39:36 39 minutes, 36 seconds Yeah. How much uh increase have we witnessed on the raw material side prices? 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds Uh in which are you talking about Q4 or Yeah. Yes. Q4. Yes. 39:51 39 minutes, 51 seconds Uh I mean I don't have the broad number like how much increase 40:01 40 minutes, 1 second average increase in raw material prices in Q4 compared to Q3. Could you have that number? 40:09 40 minutes, 9 seconds I don't have the blend but I think it was in line with the increase in crude prices. uh generally we have seen the 40:17 40 minutes, 17 seconds crude prices have gone up by about 70% in couple of months. 40:22 40 minutes, 22 seconds So that's the that's about round about the increase we are also looking at in raw prices. I think what Vive is saying if you were compare if you were to 40:31 40 minutes, 31 seconds compare the raw material prices is on Jan 1st and March 31st obviously it was a huge jump but the blended average of 40:39 40 minutes, 39 seconds Jan Feb and March and there's so many raw materials that we have I mean honestly you can just look at the cost of materials COGS and you just you 40:46 40 minutes, 46 seconds you'll see the blended right that's that's the increase understood sir understood and since sir 40:54 40 minutes, 54 seconds we are we have been able to maintain or I would We have improved our margins. We have been able to pass on uh increase on 41:02 41 minutes, 2 seconds the finished wood side as well. So my question is uh do you see like more 41:08 41 minutes, 8 seconds resistance from customer side if we further have to increase prices going forward? 41:15 41 minutes, 15 seconds Short answer is yes absolutely. I think that's that's a big worry because in the long run I don't know what these kind of high energy prices and high 41:22 41 minutes, 22 seconds petrochemical prices I don't know the or nobody knows. I don't think anyone can predict what the demand disruption will be. In some industries, they're price 41:30 41 minutes, 30 seconds inelastic to some extent. So, uh there maybe it won't be but in some industries it's you know I know some of our customers who for example supply to the 41:39 41 minutes, 39 seconds automotive companies uh are really facing the brunt because they're not getting the price increases from automotive companies and all the raw materials have gone up. Not just our 41:48 41 minutes, 48 seconds products but all other products as well and they're faced you know they're being squeezed really hard. So I you know I don't know how they'll react. Some of 41:55 41 minutes, 55 seconds them have even decided to run the plant at losses for one or two months. But I don't know if if they can if that's sustainable. Obviously that's not sustainable. So it's very difficult to 42:04 42 minutes, 4 seconds say but I would say in the long term I think with inflation due to this issue I think uh it's definitely a big cause of 42:13 42 minutes, 13 seconds concern and it should be for all industries not just ours. 42:19 42 minutes, 19 seconds Understood sir. Uh sir one more question from my side. uh uh in what situation sir would you expect that margins would 42:28 42 minutes, 28 seconds deteriorate from here? Uh sharp further increase in crude prices or a sharp fall in group prices. 42:36 42 minutes, 36 seconds I think a look a fall will definitely hurt us because we are covering for material. The call we have taken is that we are you know we're going to cover uh 42:44 42 minutes, 44 seconds raw material and ensure plants are running and we're not going to take a call on where crude prices and petrochemical prices go. When once you've decided that obviously as I 42:53 42 minutes, 53 seconds mentioned to one of the previous callers that we are covered till June now suddenly if prices were to fall and we are stuck with high cost raw materials 43:01 43 minutes, 1 second we will be uh there could be a quarter or a few months a few months or a quarter where we would have to live with 43:08 43 minutes, 8 seconds lower margins and that's fine. uh and that's the nature of our business that there are some quarters that could be really good and some quarters that you know we'd have to uh to keep it growing 43:18 43 minutes, 18 seconds and protect our market share you know we'll have to take that call so I would say at least you know 43:25 43 minutes, 25 seconds obviously a sharp drop in prices will definitely affect margins in the short term uh increase in prices I'm not sure 43:33 43 minutes, 33 seconds I think we'll be able to pass it along but if we can't then it could also impact you know makes sense Makes sense. 43:41 43 minutes, 41 seconds And sir, uh this last question uh sorry to interrupt Mr. A may request you. Okay, let Mr. ask one last question. 43:49 43 minutes, 49 seconds Yeah, thank you sir. Uh yes, hypothetically uh had we operated on a 100% capac capacity utilization in this 43:57 43 minutes, 57 seconds quarter across all plants. Uh what would be our revenue levels in that scenario assuming current prices? 44:07 44 minutes, 7 seconds uh you know we are at very high capacity utilization anyway so assuming current prices you could assume a little bit more I I I don't think we have too much 44:15 44 minutes, 15 seconds room to grow but maybe 5 10% more understood no I don't have the answer I'm just guessing I shouldn't be 44:23 44 minutes, 23 seconds guessing but uh I'm just guessing a little bit more perfect sir perfect thank you 44:32 44 minutes, 32 seconds thank you next question comes from Russian Gala and individual investor please go ahead. 44:39 44 minutes, 39 seconds Hi actually most of my questions were already been asked and answered so I have no questions. Thank you Dashan. 44:48 44 minutes, 48 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Adita Ketan from Smith's Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. 44:55 44 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah, thank you sir for the followup. Uh so just a couple of questions sir on my trial latex possible to quantify for this fiscal fi26 what would be what 45:04 45 minutes, 4 seconds would be the topline contribution and similar aida contribution and secondly sir on today's suppose for this quarter like we have done a 15% AIDA margins so 45:13 45 minutes, 13 seconds base business margins versus the nitro latex margins how are these two margins today as on date and also s you had also 45:21 45 minutes, 21 seconds said to an earlier participant that demand improve or the p or the margin improvement into the miter analytics that seems to be more of a temporary in 45:29 45 minutes, 29 seconds nature structurally though it has not been improved actually. So what are the levers you see whether this business can improve or it will continue to remain in 45:38 45 minutes, 38 seconds over supply mode and things will continue to like go back when when the group prices fall and all things will go back to normal. 45:47 45 minutes, 47 seconds Okay. Sorry. So answer your last question first. I I think you misunderstood. Structurally also there was an improvement right over 45:55 45 minutes, 55 seconds the course of the year. Every quarter there has been a structural improvement in margins. 46:01 46 minutes, 1 second Sometimes we were at there were few quarters you were at 0% AITA margins that had improved in Q3 Q4. 46:07 46 minutes, 7 seconds uh of course in the month of March there was some benefit that our company had 46:15 46 minutes, 15 seconds especially in nitral latex but that only for that one month in the whole of the last year where you could say it's not 46:23 46 minutes, 23 seconds structural so at some point of course we feel as the capacity utilization in in the world 46:30 46 minutes, 30 seconds increases for nitrial gloves and nitral latex margins will go back to pre-COVID levels they're still not at they were still not at pre-COVID levels in 46:38 46 minutes, 38 seconds February, but at some point in the next few quarters, they'll continue to improve and and get to those levels is is our contention. It's already taken 3 46:47 46 minutes, 47 seconds years, so we've been very patient. Sure, there are some short-term gains and and sometimes, as I mentioned the previous call, short-term losses as well that we 46:56 46 minutes, 56 seconds may have to uh sort of, you know, live with. Uh but I do not have a crystal ball. I can I mean I don't you would 47:03 47 minutes, 3 seconds appreciate in the current scenario who can predict what's going to happen the rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest 47:07 47 minutes, 7 seconds rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest 47:07 47 minutes, 7 seconds rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest 47:07 47 minutes, 7 seconds rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest of the quarter let alone in the rest of the year so I don't have any number for you in terms of giving guidance for nitral latex 47:15 47 minutes, 15 seconds margins and all of that in the next one year I hope that answers your question for fi 26 if you can like just forget 47:23 47 minutes, 23 seconds the direction wise if you can say like compared with the base business the margins would be lower so the structurally they it has been lower. 47:32 47 minutes, 32 seconds Yes, that's a question I didn't answer. 47:34 47 minutes, 34 seconds So, compared to the base business margins, they has been lower but catching up. Uh again, I don't exactly know what will happen for the rest of 47:42 47 minutes, 42 seconds the year, but I expect structurally it'll keep catching up and eventually it should reach the base business. I don't know when that will happen, but that's what will happen. 47:53 47 minutes, 53 seconds in terms of contribution in contribution of light in topline for fi26 and on epic 48:02 48 minutes, 2 seconds you mean terms of revenue um I don't have the epida number overall 48:10 48 minutes, 10 seconds percentage revenue of nitra latex uh will be probably I'm guessing 15 to 20% 48:18 48 minutes, 18 seconds vive do you have a number approximately of how much we we expect nitra latex revenue revenue to be as a percentage of the top line. I know none of our se none 48:27 48 minutes, 27 seconds of our sort of product lines are more than 20%. 48:31 48 minutes, 31 seconds total top line. So it'll be probably 15 to 20% is what I expect. Do you have a number? Yes, at around those. 48:39 48 minutes, 39 seconds Yeah. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 48:45 48 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you. The next follow-up question comes from Saj Kapoor from Antifragile Thinking. Please go ahead. 48:53 48 minutes, 53 seconds Yeah. Hi, thanks for the followup and I just wanted to understand your overall R&D um approach and thought process 49:02 49 minutes, 2 seconds around innovation. I mean how can we structurally transform this business over the over the medium to long term to 49:09 49 minutes, 9 seconds make it more sort of valued driven rather than volume driven and any initiative that you are currently uh very positive 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds about as far as the R&D innovation approach is concerned? Thank you. 49:23 49 minutes, 23 seconds Absolutely. Great question Sergeant. So two three things we are doing. Number one is see we are in eight different business industry verticals largely. 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah. Paper, carpet, construction, textile, uh rubber, footwear, tire and gloves. These are our largely eight different industry segments. In each of 49:42 49 minutes, 42 seconds these industry segments, we have multiple grades of products. Some grades are what people would call commoditized 49:49 49 minutes, 49 seconds where you know sort of be two products and then there are some grades within each segment that are 49:56 49 minutes, 56 seconds uh fairly specialized where we are certainly for two or three customers who are making this grade that nobody else in the world makes for example specifically around I can give you some 50:05 50 minutes, 5 seconds examples technical textiles are a couple of grades there is uh a few grades in oil and gas specific uh application of 50:12 50 minutes, 12 seconds oil and gas which broadly falls under construction segment but it's actually a specific oil and gas segment um within paper as well we have for certain 50:21 50 minutes, 21 seconds specialty paper so that's how we look at it there will be parts of the business which will be what we call commoditized but even I I I I feel that you can't 50:29 50 minutes, 29 seconds call it a commodity product because a commodity is you know something like cement none of our products are like cement right none of our products like 50:36 50 minutes, 36 seconds steel it's not as commoditized but sure there are multiple competitors or two three competitors and there are we don't have that much differentiation as far as 50:44 50 minutes, 44 seconds product is concerned. So therefore those are commoditized. So for each of those segments we look at which are which are the where can we move up the specialty 50:53 50 minutes, 53 seconds value chain and do something for our customers wherever there is a demand. 50:56 50 minutes, 56 seconds Another new thing is you know for batteries we are developing something for battery binders which is very specific for a few customers. So those kind of things will happen. Second thing 51:04 51 minutes, 4 seconds we're doing is we're building a new R&D center this year for which we've got approval from the board and we're going to spend somewhere between 20 to 25 crores building a new R&D center where 51:12 51 minutes, 12 seconds uh not only in our current industry segments but even in different types of polymers we'll be doing new research new molecules and as and when that is 51:20 51 minutes, 20 seconds commercialized um we will of course come back nitride matrix is a good example of something that that came from our R&D uh these 51:29 51 minutes, 29 seconds other examples that I gave you for technical textile and all gas all came from our R&D There are many other examples for example in the NBR space as 51:36 51 minutes, 36 seconds well. So sorry I feel passionate about it so it's a long answer. Um and so yeah we're developing a new R&D center and we 51:43 51 minutes, 43 seconds we plan to spend um as I said 2025 only on infrastructure and then also in our kind of business it's very hard to get 51:50 51 minutes, 50 seconds this kind of talent. So also we have to actually get some raw talent and groom them and retain them to ensure that they add value and they can add value to our 51:58 51 minutes, 58 seconds customers not only in India but globally. So, so that's a few things that we're doing. In addition to that, we're looking at obviously brand new 52:07 52 minutes, 7 seconds areas that we can uh um that are that have low competitive intensity that are 52:14 52 minutes, 14 seconds um you know future u you know something that's would be required more in the future and obviously where we have that 52:21 52 minutes, 21 seconds polymer uh capabilities and expertise and and where we can develop that. I hope that answers your question. Those are the few things we're doing in R&D. 52:30 52 minutes, 30 seconds Definitely such long comprehensive answers are so very helpful. Thank you so much. Very comforting. Thank you sir. 52:38 52 minutes, 38 seconds Thank you. The next follow-up question comes from the line of Mihul Panchani from 40 cents. Please go ahead. 52:46 52 minutes, 46 seconds Sir uh how do we uh see our export uh business? I mean is it sustainable what we have seen in 26 or 52:55 52 minutes, 55 seconds uh are we are we tend to grow better than this year? 53:01 53 minutes, 1 second A great question. It's been a challenge especially in the Middle East obviously last two months uh that remains a concern while the war is going on. We built a large chunk of our export 53:10 53 minutes, 10 seconds business is exports to UAE, Kuwait, Saudi, Egypt, Turkey, those whole areas. 53:18 53 minutes, 18 seconds While Egypt and Turkey are not affected by the war, but freight rates have gone up. That our cost of certain raw materials that we getting from the Middle East are now coming from China. 53:27 53 minutes, 27 seconds So that's gone up. So we are quite that's one of the concerns for us in the coming year is how one is if those 53:34 53 minutes, 34 seconds customers themselves are kind of running at lower uh what would you say you know 53:42 53 minutes, 42 seconds lower demand lower capacity so that's a concern and the customers that in Egypt and Turkey that are running are getting competitive 53:50 53 minutes, 50 seconds products now because our costs have gone up significantly maybe compared to some of our Chinese competitors for the first time we're seeing in Turkey and Egypt for example Chinese latex coming in 54:00 54 minutes there. So that's something we're sort of watching closely. But again that structurally we feel that will 54:06 54 minutes, 6 seconds completely reverse again. Uh so while there are some structural benefits uh that we've got from the war there's also 54:13 54 minutes, 13 seconds been some structural I sorry temporary benefits not structural temporary benefits we've got there's been temporary uh disadvantages as well from 54:21 54 minutes, 21 seconds this war. This is a big one. We think that will correct very quickly once the war ends and things normalize in the state of Homos. So you know there are 54:29 54 minutes, 29 seconds some positives and some negatives because of this war as well. 54:33 54 minutes, 33 seconds How does uh yeah so sorry uh one follow up on this. 54:39 54 minutes, 39 seconds How much does negatives contribute to your top line? 54:44 54 minutes, 44 seconds probably around uh I mean when I say Middle East I'm looking at Egypt, Turkey, UAE, Saudi all 54:52 54 minutes, 52 seconds countries all put together right yes and I said the business is good but the margins have been affected so about probably we make 7 8% of the total top 55:01 55 minutes, 1 second line 12%. 55:03 55 minutes, 3 seconds 12% there okay so 12%. So it's definitely a significant number. We're trying to make that up from other 55:11 55 minutes, 11 seconds geographies and you know including India and so far in the month of March and April we've been able to do a good job. 55:18 55 minutes, 18 seconds We'll see what happens in the future. 55:21 55 minutes, 21 seconds So sir if if the uh Middle East situation was absolutely normal then would we increase our export from this uh region and in all the countries which you mentioned? 55:30 55 minutes, 30 seconds Of course. 55:33 55 minutes, 33 seconds Can I would we because you know if we do we have any incentive to do like higher 55:41 55 minutes, 41 seconds margins from this uh region or no no that's not these are this is a strategic region that we've developed over a few years and we' obviously like 55:50 55 minutes, 50 seconds to make sure we we keep the market share and make sure hope the customers also are healthy and do well. Some of it is 55:56 55 minutes, 56 seconds out of our control. Uh but whatever is in our control, we'll try and do our best. 56:04 56 minutes, 4 seconds Right. And sir, are we exporting any Mr. 56:08 56 minutes, 8 seconds Okay, he can finish the last question and then you can Yeah, just this is a related one. So how much is the percentage from Europe and 56:16 56 minutes, 16 seconds US? No, Europe and US is very less. I would say less than 3 4% 2 3% maybe. 56:23 56 minutes, 23 seconds Thank you so much sir and wish you very best. Thank you. 56:29 56 minutes, 29 seconds Thank you. Your next question comes from Hit Boricha from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead. 56:35 56 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. Uh sir, I have one clarification question. So you mentioned we are looking for five to 10% growth. That's a volume number or the revenue number. 56:47 56 minutes, 47 seconds No, I didn't mention 5 to 10% uh growth. No, I meant compared to I I 56:55 56 minutes, 55 seconds mean we expect the growth to be more for the whole financial year compared to last year but compared to Q4 which was a very strong quarter in terms of volumes. 57:02 57 minutes, 2 seconds So yes I mean value wise very difficult to say because you don't know what the prices are going to be. So yes volume wise is what I would I I meant. 57:12 57 minutes, 12 seconds So let me refphrase sir. So almost all our capacities are running at full utilization. So uh are we looking for 57:20 57 minutes, 20 seconds same kind of double digit high double digit volume growth this year? 57:25 57 minutes, 25 seconds So in Q4 I'm talking about Q4 we were running at 90 to 100%. Q1 Q2 Q3 we were not right. We were at lower capacity utilizations. 57:34 57 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. So what kind of volume growth we are looking for DC I mean for FI20 term. 57:40 57 minutes, 40 seconds I think if we as I said the whole world is a little uh very uncertain right now but if the demand is there and we we do 57:49 57 minutes, 49 seconds have capacity to grow by another in double digits low double digits in volume okay and realization growth will be over 57:56 57 minutes, 56 seconds and above at double digit right it'll depend if the raw material prices crash then it may not be right so it 58:03 58 minutes, 3 seconds just depends if you see this year FI26 compared to FYI 25 as Vive mentioned mentioned earlier we have the 14% growth 58:12 58 minutes, 12 seconds in volumes but only a 4% growth in revenue now it's just April right with just one 58:20 58 minutes, 20 seconds month in the year so it's very hard to predict what will happen to revenue I can talk about volume cool yeah understood you understood 58:28 58 minutes, 28 seconds thank you thank you thank you the next question comes from Om Praash an individual investor please 58:37 58 minutes, 37 seconds go ahead And 58:52 58 minutes, 52 seconds effort. 59:15 59 minutes, 15 seconds B 59:33 59 minutes, 33 seconds Thanks. Thank you. It's all about the team. 59:40 59 minutes, 40 seconds That's the only disagreement that I have with you. But thank you very much for your kind words. 59:51 59 minutes, 51 seconds Thank you. 1:00:01 1 hour, 1 second Okay. Any other questions for that or should we end the call? Hello. 1:00:10 1 hour, 10 seconds So we will uh take the last question from the line of Adita from securities investment management. Please go ahead. 1:00:19 1 hour, 19 seconds Yeah. Hi sir, thanks for the opportunity. Uh just one question uh on NBR. So how is that uh product performing for us? Because with cost 1:00:27 1 hour, 27 seconds increasing have the imports come down and which is helping us. 1:00:33 1 hour, 33 seconds Um I think in the short term yes shortterm yes but I think we are also seeing a push back on because the prices 1:00:41 1 hour, 41 seconds have also been the highest in a very in many years or probably the highest I've ever seen. So I think overall yes 1:00:48 1 hour, 48 seconds imports are down uh but then demand is also quite challenging in the current context. So uh but things are margin 1:00:56 1 hour, 56 seconds wise better for the last couple of months. Um overall also things are okay. 1:01:00 1 hour, 1 minute NBR is is okay doing well steady we we don't have capacity so we're running at full capacity and our main endeavor is to ensure that we run at full full 1:01:08 1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds capacity every month from now on yeah sir thanks 1:01:16 1 hour, 1 minute, 16 seconds thank you ladies and gentlemen we will take that as the last question for today I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing 1:01:23 1 hour, 1 minute, 23 seconds comments thank you s we thank all the participants and investors for attending ing the conference and for the continued 1:01:32 1 hour, 1 minute, 32 seconds trust and engagement. We also look forward to your continued participation in the next quarter learning call. Thank you and have a good day. 1:01:43 1 hour, 1 minute, 43 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Apportex Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you 1:01:50 1 hour, 1 minute, 50 seconds everyone for joining us and human out is connected.