Apar Industries Limited — Q4 FY26

Apar Industries Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ3ElVuSPf0 Published: 3 weeks ago

0:02 2 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Upper Industries Limited Q4FY26 0:08 8 seconds earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenonly mode and there will be an 0:16 16 seconds opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an 0:24 24 seconds operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now 0:33 33 seconds hand the conference over to Mr. Amsh Diwari from S and CL technologies. 0:40 40 seconds Thank you and over to you sir. 0:43 43 seconds Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and I welcome you all to the Q4 FY26 audience call for Apar industries to discuss the 0:51 51 seconds business performance and outlook. We have from the management side Mr. Kushal Desai chairman and managing director Mr. 0:58 58 seconds Chetan Desai managing director and the CFO Mr. Romesh Ayar. I would now pass on to Mr. Kushal Desai for opening remarks. 1:06 1 minute, 6 seconds Thank you and over to you sir. Yeah, thank you Amish and good afternoon everyone and welcome to Apar Industries Q4 1:15 1 minute, 15 seconds um and the annual FY26 earnings call. I would like to start by giving a quick 1:21 1 minute, 21 seconds outline of our performance followed by a short industry update. I will follow this up with more details then on the 1:29 1 minute, 29 seconds individual segment performances of the three major segments and then finally we can open the floor up to questions. 1:38 1 minute, 38 seconds We have concluded FI26 with a reasonably healthy growth trajectory reaching an all-time high 1:45 1 minute, 45 seconds revenue of 22,92 crores. 1:49 1 minute, 49 seconds Apart has come a long way over the last 5 years scaling up its top line from 6,46 1:56 1 minute, 56 seconds crores in FI21 to now 22,92 crores in FI26. 2:02 2 minutes, 2 seconds So this represents a CAGGR of approximately 29% over these five years. 2:08 2 minutes, 8 seconds The consolidated revenue for the quarter stands at 6,625 crores which was almost equal to the 2:15 2 minutes, 15 seconds annual sales of FI21 representing a growth of 26.7% over the last year of Q4. This 2:24 2 minutes, 24 seconds performance can be attributed to growth primarily coming from the domestic business and improved product mix as 2:32 2 minutes, 32 seconds well as operating disciplines. Shipments to the United States were also higher in this quarter. Domestic revenues grew 2:41 2 minutes, 41 seconds 33.6% over Q4 FI25 and exports grew by 13.3%. 2:49 2 minutes, 49 seconds On a sequential quarter basis, exports have grown by 30%. As the US business started scaling up, especially post the realigned US tariffs. 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second The US revenues are higher than the same period last year by about 28.8%. 3:09 3 minutes, 9 seconds And 250% higher over the sequential quarter. So export as a mix is approximately 28% in Q4 FI26 compared to about 31% in Q4 FI25. 3:23 3 minutes, 23 seconds Eida post Forex for the quarter came in at 584 crores representing a yearon-year growth of approximately 19.3%. 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds The pack margin is at 3.8% which is only 100 basis points lower than the same period previous year. 3:42 3 minutes, 42 seconds However, this number is to give you a better idea of the operating performance uh and putting it in context. 3:51 3 minutes, 51 seconds Um I'd like to state that um if you look at just the operating activities, there are a few uh one-time provisions that 3:58 3 minutes, 58 seconds have been made that have impacted the fourth quarter that includes an impact of gratuitity and leave encashment which we have 4:06 4 minutes, 6 seconds further increased by approximately 8 crores. there is a marktomarket impact of an ECB loan that the company has 4:15 4 minutes, 15 seconds um and due to the sharp depreciation of the rupee that happened in the first quarter and then there is a one-off 4:22 4 minutes, 22 seconds provision for an old legal case based on the uh recommendations of our auditors that we have moved from contingent 4:29 4 minutes, 29 seconds liabilities into um a provision. So if you exclude these um non-operating 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds u impacts which are amounting to 31 crores the pack which came in at 254 crores would have been at 285 crores and 4:47 4 minutes, 47 seconds so on operating basis the growth would be at around 14% compared to the same period previous year on an annual basis 4:56 4 minutes, 56 seconds the revenues have reached 22,92 crores as I explained which is 23.3% higher than fi by 25. 5:05 5 minutes, 5 seconds Domestic revenue is up by 29%. Export revenue is up by about 12%. 5:11 5 minutes, 11 seconds The US revenues have grown by almost 50% versus the same period last year. 5:18 5 minutes, 18 seconds The export mix stands at about 30% for the year. EBIDA post open period Forex 5:26 5 minutes, 26 seconds grew to grew by 23% to 2,67 crores at an ebida margin of 9%. 5:35 5 minutes, 35 seconds The patch has grown by 19% to 977 crores at a margin of 4.3%. 5:44 5 minutes, 44 seconds So I'd like to also cover some industry highlights. 5:48 5 minutes, 48 seconds Um there has been a substantial uh increase in the clean energy additions which have happened the non- fossil fuel 5:57 5 minutes, 57 seconds based capacity additions which for the last quarter have been uh 50 gawatt plus 6:03 6 minutes, 3 seconds which is the highest ever in a financial year. This brings the country's total non-fossil capacity to anywhere between 6:12 6 minutes, 12 seconds 250 and 270 crores, propelling India to be the third largest in the world in renewable energy deployment. 6:22 6 minutes, 22 seconds Solar power has been the leader in terms of additions which has now crossed 140 gawatt and there has been a record 6:29 6 minutes, 29 seconds annual addition of about 54 gawatt in FI26 alone. 6:34 6 minutes, 34 seconds Wind power has also increased with an capacity increase of approximately 6 GW in FI26. 6:41 6 minutes, 41 seconds Both of these are a significant milestone in the country's renewable energy journey and is almost double of what it was in the previous year. 6:52 6 minutes, 52 seconds On the data center front, India is making is rapidly expanding in this sector. 6:58 6 minutes, 58 seconds Um the current data center capacity in India is anywhere between 1.5 and 1.7 gaw 7:05 7 minutes, 5 seconds um which is expected to scale in a base case to 5 GW by 2030 with a more 7:12 7 minutes, 12 seconds optimistic estimate going up to 7 to 8 GAW. which will attract more than 30 billion u in investments 7:21 7 minutes, 21 seconds uh powering India's uh move towards being a trillion dollar digital economy. 7:28 7 minutes, 28 seconds On the transmission infrastructure and grid side, uh there has been a transformation capacity addition in FI26 7:37 7 minutes, 37 seconds of 113,000 MVA which is 30% higher than what existed in FI25. 7:44 7 minutes, 44 seconds though it is short of the planned target um of 126,000 MBA. So we about 13,000 7:52 7 minutes, 52 seconds MBA short which is approximately 11% lower than what had been planned. 7:58 7 minutes, 58 seconds Nearly 48% of the transformation capacity added in FI26 was at the high voltage which is at 765 8:07 8 minutes, 7 seconds KV voltage levels with 54,000 MVA already commissioned and this is again the highest ever annual addition in this 8:15 8 minutes, 15 seconds voltage class. This significantly strengthens the ISPS which is the interstate transmission system grid for 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds bulk power and renewable energy transfer. 8:27 8 minutes, 27 seconds The government has adopted a planning and implementation approach that prioritizes grid readiness, transmission expansion and energy storage deployment 8:36 8 minutes, 36 seconds as integral components of the renewable energy across the country. 8:42 8 minutes, 42 seconds As per the national electricity plan, the transmission network is expected to expand from approximately 5 lakh circuit 8:49 8 minutes, 49 seconds kilometers to about 6 and 1/2 lakh circuit kilm by 2032 with transformation capacity scaling 8:57 8 minutes, 57 seconds from about 1.4 1,429 gts to uh 2,300 54 GT amps. 9:09 9 minutes, 9 seconds And the inter regional transmission capacity is also set to increase from 120 gawatt to about 143 gaw by 2027 and 9:18 9 minutes, 18 seconds by a further 168 gaw by 2032. 9:24 9 minutes, 24 seconds Now coming to the segmental performance um I would first like to con uh to cover the conductor division. 9:33 9 minutes, 33 seconds So we concluded Q4 FI26 with the highest topline uh for the conducted division. Revenue for the 9:40 9 minutes, 40 seconds quarter reached 3,764 crores representing a significant 29.9% 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds year-on-year growth. This growth was driven by increase in volume, improvement in the product mix 9:56 9 minutes, 56 seconds and also there was the tailwind of commodity price increases that happened. 10:01 10 minutes, 1 second Sales volume is up by 9%. The domestic business grew uh 34.8%. 10:11 10 minutes, 11 seconds Export revenue grew by 14.6%. 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds Uh compared to last year and on a sequential basis it is up by 48.7%. 10:21 10 minutes, 21 seconds The export mix is at around 21.6% in Q4 FI26 10:27 10 minutes, 27 seconds versus 24.5% a year ago. This difference is primarily because the domestic business in the in the last quarter was was fairly strong. 10:38 10 minutes, 38 seconds The US business has as I stated earlier started scaling up and in Q4 FI26 10:45 10 minutes, 45 seconds it is almost at par with Q4 FI25 uh for the conductor division but compared to Q3 FI26 is up by over 150%. 10:56 10 minutes, 56 seconds Premium products continue to grow and in this quarter the premium products came in at 49.3%. 11:04 11 minutes, 4 seconds Versus 44.3% in the last year. Ebida post opener Forex stands at 44,919 11:13 11 minutes, 13 seconds rupees per metric ton compared to 41,430 rupees a metric ton a year ago. 11:20 11 minutes, 20 seconds So the eBida margins have grown largely on account of the improved product mix. 11:28 11 minutes, 28 seconds On a fullear basis the revenues were up 32.7% to reach 12,712 crores and with this the conductor 11:37 11 minutes, 37 seconds division has crossed that 10,000 cr milestone um which is a historic milestone uh for 11:44 11 minutes, 44 seconds us. Volumes have grown in the year by 8.6%. 6%. Domestic revenues are up 38.3%. 11:53 11 minutes, 53 seconds Export revenues are up by about 15%. 11:56 11 minutes, 56 seconds And premium product contributions to revenue stands at 45.8% for the year. 12:02 12 minutes, 2 seconds The ebida margin post forex came in at 43,12 rupees per metric ton compared to 36,683 per metric ton a year ago. 12:13 12 minutes, 13 seconds Order inflow during the year came in at 11,450 crores. The order book as on 31st March 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds stands at a healthy 7,671 crores. 12:28 12 minutes, 28 seconds So this year marked the highest ever installation that our project division have also done which is about 1,949 12:36 12 minutes, 36 seconds circuit kilometers and that helped address the growing power demands for residential and industrial users and 12:43 12 minutes, 43 seconds farmers and also debottlenecked the grid coming into Mumbai and helping Nav'i 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds Mumbai become the u data center capital of uh India. Thus far both CTC and bus 12:58 12 minutes, 58 seconds bars which are our main copper products have also recorded a strong growth in the year. 13:04 13 minutes, 4 seconds Coming to the oil division our revenues from operations grew u to 5.6 lakh 13:13 13 minutes, 13 seconds um kil and the volume level is at par with um sorry uh our uh opera revenue from operations grew by 5.6%. 13:25 13 minutes, 25 seconds The volume is approximately at par with the same period previous year. And this was largely because exports were very 13:32 13 minutes, 32 seconds severely affected in the month of March due to the Middle East disruption both in terms of supply chain as well as 13:41 13 minutes, 41 seconds in terms of a sudden increase taking place in the freight which required the company to go back to customers and negotiate a higher freight increase. 13:53 13 minutes, 53 seconds In fact, the supply chain for petroleum products came to a grinding halt with all major refineries curtailing uh 14:00 14 minutes production and also reducing contract volumes which were signed up with uh with us. There was also no visibility of 14:09 14 minutes, 9 seconds what would happen uh in the month of April as we started the month of April and there was uncertainty even in terms 14:16 14 minutes, 16 seconds of what the price level would be uh in the month of April. 14:21 14 minutes, 21 seconds um we stopped booking fresh orders in March um by the first week and only focused on completing execution of all 14:29 14 minutes, 29 seconds the pending orders. Uh there were increases in freight, there were increases in packing charges and other incidental costs and the company 14:37 14 minutes, 37 seconds systematically negotiated that with all its customers and executed all the pending orders um you know in in the 14:46 14 minutes, 46 seconds March period. We only started booking right toward the end of the month and in the beginning of April. 14:54 14 minutes, 54 seconds The supplies against contracts to API reduced by 50% from the key contracted 15:01 15 minutes, 1 second refineries in the month of April and in the month of May. Now it is expected to get largely restored but of course at significantly higher prices. 15:12 15 minutes, 12 seconds So if you look at the global transformer oil volume, it was marginally down by 1.4%. And the domestic transformer 15:20 15 minutes, 20 seconds volume in spite of all these problems was up by 8 12%. Automotive oil grew by 19 12%. 15:28 15 minutes, 28 seconds Industrial lubricants grew by 6 6.1%. 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds Expos contributed 36.3% to the overall oil division's revenues in Q4 as 15:38 15 minutes, 38 seconds compared to 41.7% a year ago. Eida per KL post foreign exchange stands at about 15:46 15 minutes, 46 seconds 5,656 rupees per KL as against 5,873 rupees per KL. There 15:54 15 minutes, 54 seconds was a fairly large provision made for foreign exchange which is almost 15 crores in the month of March. 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds with the sliding of the rupee taking place post the war starting on a 12- month revenue basis um revenues have 16:09 16 minutes, 9 seconds grown by 6% uh posting 5,373 crores the transformer oil business grew 16:17 16 minutes, 17 seconds by 3.5% uh overall at a global level the domestic transformer oil business grew by 12.2%. 16:27 16 minutes, 27 seconds Even though we were on target to actually cross 15% you know as the quarter had started. 16:34 16 minutes, 34 seconds Automotive oil uh is up 11.1% versus the previous year. Industrial oil is up 13.8%. 16:44 16 minutes, 44 seconds Export mix stands at 39.4% for the year compared to 44.4% for the year ago. E 16:51 16 minutes, 51 seconds bida per kl came in at 5,943 rupees per k. 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds Now moving to the cable division revenues for the quarter reached 1,93 crores up 35% over Q4 of FI25. 17:08 17 minutes, 8 seconds Domestic revenues grew by 35.4% and exports grew by 33.6% over Q4. 17:17 17 minutes, 17 seconds The US revenues are up 52.2% 2% over the last year Q4. 17:23 17 minutes, 23 seconds Export mix was at 28.1% in Q4 FI26 versus 24.4% in the fourth quarter of 25. 17:33 17 minutes, 33 seconds See, EBIDA post Forex grew 34.5% yearonear to reach 202 crores and an eBida margin of 10.6%. 17:43 17 minutes, 43 seconds The pending order remains at approximately 1,900 crores. 17:48 17 minutes, 48 seconds For the full year, revenues for the 12 month FI26 came in at 6,220 crores, which is up 25.8% yearonear. 17:58 17 minutes, 58 seconds This year, the cable division overtook the oil division to be the second largest business segment for Apar. 18:05 18 minutes, 5 seconds The domestic revenues are up 23.6%, export revenues are up 30.6% yearonear. 18:12 18 minutes, 12 seconds The US revenue is higher by 46.7%. 18:18 18 minutes, 18 seconds The export mix stands at 32.3% in this period. The EBIDA post uh forex grew by 18:26 18 minutes, 26 seconds 27.1% to 633 crores at a margin of 10.2%. 18:33 18 minutes, 33 seconds Our B2B channel business which we have started this is only the second year of its operation has now crossed 500 crores. 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds We also expanded our distribution network of 100 and by adding 120 new B2C 18:49 18 minutes, 49 seconds distributors and 25 new B2B distributors. 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds There's clearly been an impact from the war on both the price and availability of specialtity polymers. 19:02 19 minutes, 2 seconds Um many of this were being sourced from multinational plants that are located um 19:08 19 minutes, 8 seconds in the Middle East area notably in uh Abu Dhabi. 19:14 19 minutes, 14 seconds The prices have also increase of aluminum and copper and polymers in general across the board. This has 19:22 19 minutes, 22 seconds limited the ability of the company to aggressively book orders for specialtity cables in the short term given the 19:29 19 minutes, 29 seconds shortage that has been there of these polymers. 19:33 19 minutes, 33 seconds There will be a near-term impact in both volumes and margins. 19:41 19 minutes, 41 seconds In terms of concluding remarks, I would like to conclude that the financial year 2026 has been a good year in spite of 19:50 19 minutes, 50 seconds all the volatility and the war at the end of the period uh disrupting uh supplies 19:57 19 minutes, 57 seconds despite the multiple uh iterations in the US tariffs um throughout the year, the increase in 20:05 20 minutes, 5 seconds LM prices and the recent Middle East war, the company has still reported uh a strong growth. 20:14 20 minutes, 14 seconds However, as I mentioned earlier, the short-term period as mentioned will see slowing demand. And there are several 20:22 20 minutes, 22 seconds factors for this. You have significantly higher metal prices. 20:27 20 minutes, 27 seconds Added to that are higher premiums both for aluminum and copper. 20:34 20 minutes, 34 seconds there is higher freight costs involved um including the war premiums that have been um applied on all um export 20:44 20 minutes, 44 seconds shipments. The Middle East is where the maximum amount of problems are there because the uh containers are being 20:51 20 minutes, 51 seconds transferred uh without complete uh insurance cover um resulting in some of the projects being actually uh deferred or delayed. 21:04 21 minutes, 4 seconds Uh there have been several manpower issues in the recent months at various project sites with the elections coming 21:11 21 minutes, 11 seconds up in the east. Um and this has impacted uh the transit of goods uh to some extent within the country but much 21:20 21 minutes, 20 seconds larger in the form of the operation of the ports. 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds So with these effects some of the customers are actually preferring to postpone the uh delivery of their materials. 21:34 21 minutes, 34 seconds We also see in addition to this that domestic players have started increasing their capacities. 21:40 21 minutes, 40 seconds Um and this is increasing uh some amount of pricing pressures. The Chinese 21:46 21 minutes, 46 seconds competition is still uh quite severe in certain parts of the world. There is a 21:53 21 minutes, 53 seconds fairly large difference between LME and the Shanghai Metal Exchange. the uh what they call the uh SH SE prices which for 22:02 22 minutes, 2 seconds aluminum has increased to about $330 to $360 a ton. 22:08 22 minutes, 8 seconds However, having said that, structurally, energy infrastructure fundamentals remain intact, uh, with the growth in 22:16 22 minutes, 16 seconds TN, rising electricity demand and evacuation infrastructure being increased, data center expansions, the 22:24 22 minutes, 24 seconds growing presence of EV, more opportunities for reconducting and upgradation of aging lines, and finally 22:32 22 minutes, 32 seconds the significant investment happening in ultra high voltage transmission infrastructure and HVDC. 22:38 22 minutes, 38 seconds All of these opportunities continue to provide um a robust growth runway for the company and we are quite focused and well positioned to capitalize on this. 22:50 22 minutes, 50 seconds Um we plan to increase our capex for FI27 to about 1,500 crores in addition 22:59 22 minutes, 59 seconds to the FI26 capex that we have incurred of two of 740 crores. This is to ensure 23:07 23 minutes, 7 seconds that we have a capacity in place to meet meet future demand given the longer capex cycle that uh is taking place. 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds So uh with this I would like to leave uh you all with an optimistic note that in spite of the short-term problems that 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds are there we still see a very strong uh future uh coming up. With this update I'd like to conclude my presentation. 23:31 23 minutes, 31 seconds Um, I'd like to thank all of you for joining this call and would like to open up the floor to questions, please. 23:39 23 minutes, 39 seconds Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. 23:49 23 minutes, 49 seconds If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. 24:07 24 minutes, 7 seconds The first question comes from the line of Nithan Aurora with Axis Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. 24:16 24 minutes, 16 seconds Hi uh thanks uh for taking my question. 24:19 24 minutes, 19 seconds Thank you sir. Uh my first question you're not quite audible you're Hello Nan audible. Yes, now it's much better. Please go ahead. 24:27 24 minutes, 27 seconds All right. Uh uh thank you for taking my question sir. Uh just on your outlook on US market uh I remember a few calls back 24:37 24 minutes, 37 seconds you also talked about uh the data center opportunity which you were seeing uh you 24:44 24 minutes, 44 seconds mentioned Microsoft and everyone as well. uh how big is these uh opportunity are becoming for you because given uh 24:53 24 minutes, 53 seconds such a tariff challenging you're still able to deliver such high profitability on the conductor side despite us being 24:59 24 minutes, 59 seconds down for us so going in FI27 FI28 uh how this US opportunity looks like to 25:06 25 minutes, 6 seconds you because you're increasing again the capeex which you know um looks like a very high visibility you are seeing so just your take first on a little 25:15 25 minutes, 15 seconds detailed way on the US capex So uh Nathan um the US market we are 25:22 25 minutes, 22 seconds seeing actually a very strong uh traction in the US market. It is being clearly led by u the data center 25:30 25 minutes, 30 seconds opportunity there. all the major public companies data is already available uh from the numbers that they have given 25:38 25 minutes, 38 seconds from you know the Q1 earnings call that you know the metas and the um Amazons, Google's of the world have already had. 25:47 25 minutes, 47 seconds So uh we have already taken positive steps in this direction. We've uh supplied to three major data center 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds projects so far and um in the US uh the total of cables that have gone in there 26:03 26 minutes, 3 seconds is in the range of about $15 million and with this we are now slowly getting 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds more and more uh access and RSQs which we are being asked to bid upon. So we see the cable side on the data center uh 26:19 26 minutes, 19 seconds you know growing and being a larger opportunity for APAR as you know time passes by. We have also made certain uh 26:27 26 minutes, 27 seconds capex provisions for adding specific capacity to produce the data center cables which are required in the US that 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds are of a significantly higher specification than the data center cables that are going into India. 26:42 26 minutes, 42 seconds On the conductor side, uh we have had extensive discussions with various utilities there uh both public utilities 26:50 26 minutes, 50 seconds and the IUS and from whatever we see of the amount of capital that they are allocating to improve uh their 26:58 26 minutes, 58 seconds transmission line capacities and modernization of the grids, we see that you know this business will only continue to uh increase 27:07 27 minutes, 7 seconds um you know year on year. So we are seeing fairly strong uh signal and visibility across the board in the US. 27:15 27 minutes, 15 seconds Carrying it. 27:16 27 minutes, 16 seconds What has helped is that the tariff situation even though there are tariffs u it seems to have settled down u you 27:25 27 minutes, 25 seconds know and uh this is also uh helpful in terms of you know uh customers having to take decisions. Last year was a very 27:33 27 minutes, 33 seconds difficult period and in spite of that we grew because the end customer moment they have had an imported product from 27:40 27 minutes, 40 seconds India they were not clear what the landed cost would have been which really upates their decision making and as a consequence you know that had an effect 27:49 27 minutes, 49 seconds in terms of where where we uh stood that I think is today something that is much more u settled and so you will see in 27:58 27 minutes, 58 seconds FI27 a larger uh apar presence in terms of sales in the US, 28:04 28 minutes, 4 seconds right? And when you announced this Apex, uh is it something that these hyperscalers are, you know, trying to 28:14 28 minutes, 14 seconds block as they're trying to do with all the you know data center suppliers across the world or it's predominantly a 28:21 28 minutes, 21 seconds mix of Indian you're still not audible. Uh could you please use your phone on the handset mode in case if you're on the Audible now? Uh no. Yeah, we can hear. 28:31 28 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah, go ahead. 28:39 28 minutes, 39 seconds See the wall? 28:45 28 minutes, 45 seconds No, I think you the line is totally garbled right now. Hello. Yeah. Yeah. So, audible. Am I audible? 28:55 28 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Now, yes, please go ahead. 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. So I'm asking on this capeex which you have announced and upsized again. Uh is it like coming more from the US data 29:06 29 minutes, 6 seconds center hyperscaler side where they're trying to block your capacity that the way they're doing for all the vendors around the world or is it a mix of both 29:15 29 minutes, 15 seconds India capeex and and US capex all together? 29:19 29 minutes, 19 seconds No. So it's looking at all the opportunities if you see that even as I mentioned earlier that even in India the data center expansion is there 29:27 29 minutes, 27 seconds there is also an expansion happening on solar and wind uh in India there is a significant increase in solar capacities 29:35 29 minutes, 35 seconds that we are seeing uh getting lined up in the US as well so 29:42 29 minutes, 42 seconds the US is being led by data centers but you know unlike in the case of fiber and some of the other things where they're directly and blocking capacities here. 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds These are largely projects which are awarded to EPC players and then EPC players in turn go into the market and 29:58 29 minutes, 58 seconds start um you know picking up u or or ordering the business. The capex increase we are seeing is fundamentally 30:06 30 minutes, 6 seconds overall demand growing with the US being um you know one market where we see significant growth besides India. So these are the two markets which Apar is really focusing on. 30:18 30 minutes, 18 seconds Right. This last question sir on the on the profitability 30:23 30 minutes, 23 seconds uh given if US increases next year uh in exposure and uh you know and you're 30:32 30 minutes, 32 seconds already able to do 44,000 in conductor for the whole year how one should think about profitability of a conductor business next year. 30:42 30 minutes, 42 seconds So uh Nathan we typically uh give guidance for a medium to long-term perspective uh as we have always been 30:49 30 minutes, 49 seconds doing consistently in the past and uh based on the historical IBITA margins that we have made we expect that from on 30:58 30 minutes, 58 seconds a medium to long-term perspective our conductor margins could be in the range of 35 to 36,000 per metric ton and this 31:05 31 minutes, 5 seconds has been resulting because of the impact of high premium products the the reconducting opportunity as well as the 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds copper mix that is going up. So in line with that we expect this margins to be high. Also to note is that with the increase in the metal prices you will 31:22 31 minutes, 22 seconds see higher interest costs also coming in because the metal price is going up. So as we are looking at IITA it's earnings 31:29 31 minutes, 29 seconds before interest. So to that extent our interest cost uh the IITA will also go up there. And of course these are of 31:38 31 minutes, 38 seconds course excluding the tailwinds we always talk about a bit plus tailwind. So it's in the range of 35 to 36,000 per metric ton plus the tailwinds coming our way. 31:48 31 minutes, 48 seconds See one thing Nin I'll add to this is that everywhere there is still whether it's the US or whether it's India there 31:54 31 minutes, 54 seconds is a short-term slowdown in ordering because especially with aluminum aluminum moves along with the cost of energy and 32:03 32 minutes, 3 seconds because of this whole war related problem the uh the as I mentioned in my opening remarks that there is a very 32:11 32 minutes, 11 seconds sharp increase in the price of aluminum there is further an a premium increase so if you look at the MJP which is a 32:18 32 minutes, 18 seconds mean uh premium of Japan that also has increased and uh the freight costs have 32:25 32 minutes, 25 seconds increased everywhere in the US they at all-time high uh you know prices of gasoline everything so um there is a 32:33 32 minutes, 33 seconds small meaning I expect a short-term slowdown but the kind of budgets which are being allocated and these are being allocated right from the big u data 32:42 32 minutes, 42 seconds center companies the budgets which are getting approved uh in the board meetings of these big utilities um is showing a very strong picture going 32:51 32 minutes, 51 seconds forward. You may not be able to place things like what you're asking in the exact buckets at this stage because of the uncertainty in the current 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds environment. But um there are makings of an allocations very serious allocations from all these different players 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds that will drive the market you know in the future and that's one of the reasons why we have committed to a larger capex because given that the current scenario 33:15 33 minutes, 15 seconds the capex cycle also is significantly longer than what it is uh you know what it was 2 to 3 years ago from the time 33:22 33 minutes, 22 seconds you order equipment from a top equipment supplier to the time you get the equipment coming in and the installation 33:30 33 minutes, 30 seconds takes place that has actually that cycle has got dragged out. 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds So I hope that answers your question has dropped. Uh so the participant has 33:46 33 minutes, 46 seconds dropped. So we'll move to the next participant that would be Fumesha with Namora Holdings. Please go ahead. 33:55 33 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Hi sir, good evening and uh congrats for strong set of numbers in cable and uh conductor division. Uh my 34:03 34 minutes, 3 seconds first question is pertaining to our current capacity utilization uh in these three divisions and uh at the same time 34:10 34 minutes, 10 seconds if you can give us further detail breakup of 1500 of capex that you are planning for FI27. 34:18 34 minutes, 18 seconds Yes. So on the conductor division our capacity utilization currently be about 90 to 95%age. 34:24 34 minutes, 24 seconds And similarly for cables it could be close to about 85 to 90%age. Oil division as as the operation are not so 34:34 34 minutes, 34 seconds capital intensive we would have enough capacity because it would be in the range of 65 to 70%age capacity there. 34:40 34 minutes, 40 seconds Lubricant is higher at the moment. Uh lubricant capacity is running at almost 85 to 90%. for the small can and the 34:48 34 minutes, 48 seconds bucket filling because as you've seen there's been a substantial growth in the last year and the company is making some further investments as part of this 34:56 34 minutes, 56 seconds capex to rebottle in that yeah anything else you wanted to miss 35:04 35 minutes, 4 seconds yeah a break up of 1500 crores of capex that you are planning for FI27 around 400 400 crores would be coming 35:12 35 minutes, 12 seconds from conductor division around 200 odd crores from oil division and cable would be in the range of 850 cr. 35:21 35 minutes, 21 seconds Okay, got it. My second question is pertaining to domestic market. Uh now that uh lot of these large HPC projects 35:29 35 minutes, 29 seconds are entering into execution mode. Uh so just wanted to know whether uh material awarding uh for these projects are 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds already being done or uh it is expected to come up in FI27 and second uh any kind of uh delay in 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds tender finalization that you see in domestic uh market for transmission lines. 35:51 35 minutes, 51 seconds So the answer to the first question is that no with these HVDC projects have just been uh just been awarded. So both 35:59 35 minutes, 59 seconds conductor and the oil will come significantly later. Uh fortunately the uh the two main players in this or the 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds rather the three main players in this are uh Hitachi energy um your GE and uh 36:15 36 minutes, 15 seconds Seammens and Apar has been the principal and only supplier to all of these three companies so far uh in terms of the HBDC 36:24 36 minutes, 24 seconds transformer oil. So none of these orders have started getting uh awarded. I think the uh business will run through FI27, 36:32 36 minutes, 32 seconds FI28 also uh in terms of the awards taking place. 36:40 36 minutes, 40 seconds I'm just my second question you had uh regarding uh current tendering 36:47 36 minutes, 47 seconds pipeline in terms of finalization how it is happening whether you are seeing any delays because of inflationary pressures 36:54 36 minutes, 54 seconds where uh earlier probable estimates for transmission lines could be different. 36:59 36 minutes, 59 seconds Now given that copper and alum aluminum has both seen significant inflation any kind of uh revision to that estimate 37:07 37 minutes, 7 seconds will take approval times. So any kind of delays that you can anticipate in first half of FI27 in domestic market. 37:14 37 minutes, 14 seconds So we've seen effect of both. In some cases where we already have the orders and where the customer needs to actually 37:21 37 minutes, 21 seconds block the metal, they have uh been delaying uh you know the delivery of those supplies. Um also uh there is some 37:31 37 minutes, 31 seconds amount of postponement that is happening because the factor is not just metal you know it's manpower is a big problem in 37:38 37 minutes, 38 seconds India at the moment especially with the Bihar with the West Bengal elections and the elections in the northeast a lot of 37:46 37 minutes, 46 seconds the workforce at project sites comes from those areas and those jurisdictions so there has been a little bit of a 37:54 37 minutes, 54 seconds slowdown that's coming from these things but our sense is that you know this the time should pass and uh uh you will have 38:03 38 minutes, 3 seconds a uh you know pick up. If you see last year the second half of the year had a tremendous execution intensity compared 38:11 38 minutes, 11 seconds to the first half. So maybe a similar sort of phenomena may come up in in this year but short-term as I mentioned there 38:19 38 minutes, 19 seconds definitely are all these moving parts which have resulted in higher uh higher cost and people are postponing decisions and deliveries wherever they can. 38:31 38 minutes, 31 seconds We have seen something similar even on all the fiber optic OPGW all that because the fiber costs have gone up 3x 38:38 38 minutes, 38 seconds and 4x times what they were uh you know uh compared to about a year ago. 38:45 38 minutes, 45 seconds Understood. My last question is pertaining to data center. Now three parts to this question. uh one any rough 38:53 38 minutes, 53 seconds cut idea about how much of uh value of cable uh supply that you can give to 1 39:00 39 minutes megawatt or 1 gig of data center infrastructure suppose in US. Second uh uh do you see uh pricing in data center 39:09 39 minutes, 9 seconds user industry to be relatively far better than other ind other user industries and third uh any uh any color 39:17 39 minutes, 17 seconds on potential long-term contract that you can get uh on the lines of similarly what we have seen on the fiber side in domestic market uh from US uh customers. 39:27 39 minutes, 27 seconds So any kind of uh long-term contracts or tying up of capacity that uh you are now discussing with the large players in uh 39:35 39 minutes, 35 seconds US data center market. Thank you. Thank so um 39:42 39 minutes, 42 seconds go. So you know the the last question I can tell you that you know as far as our wires and cables are concerned there is 39:50 39 minutes, 50 seconds no blocking of capacity that we are seeing with not only us but with any of the major players around the world because the way it runs is that it's 39:59 39 minutes, 59 seconds then placed on an EPC contractor. BPC contractor then places it onto uh an electrical contractor who then does you 40:07 40 minutes, 7 seconds know the uh contracting. Your first question you know the data centers vary very dramatically. So if you see the 40:14 40 minutes, 14 seconds kind of spec that runs in India is totally different than what runs in the US. Also the spec that runs in a data 40:22 40 minutes, 22 seconds center which is a general data center versus an AI data center is also vastly different. And the third thing is that we are seeing that the bill of materials 40:30 40 minutes, 30 seconds is also evolving as uh you know Nvidia's new chips are being utilized and things like that you 40:38 40 minutes, 38 seconds know the electrical requirements are also starting uh you know to change but to give you an idea the uh a a uh 40:47 40 minutes, 47 seconds mediumsiz um data center that you would supply in the US would be taking about 10 to 12 million worth of cables 40:57 40 minutes, 57 seconds of just the medium voltage cables and you would probably have something uh equivalent in terms of the other uh you 41:05 41 minutes, 5 seconds know low voltage cables in this about 2530 million for a mediumsiz data center in the US. Over here in India you're 41:14 41 minutes, 14 seconds looking at uh about 2 crores worth of cables for you know a 50 uh 50 megawatt kind of uh facility. 41:27 41 minutes, 27 seconds Understood. Understood. 41:29 41 minutes, 29 seconds Yeah. For a 50 megawatt. Correct. So if it's 100 megawatt, it would be about 5 to 6 crores, you know, like that. 41:38 41 minutes, 38 seconds Okay. Got it. So last question. I mean, I know that you are guiding for 35 to 36,000 of a pattern on it conductor 41:46 41 minutes, 46 seconds side. But if I look at our pending order backlog where export mix is relatively higher at about 39%. 41:53 41 minutes, 53 seconds uh while we did about 21% export sales in a conductor in last year and and probably I think there is also a higher 42:00 42 minutes room to supply to us because this uh especially in last year was weak. So considering all these things it looks 42:07 42 minutes, 7 seconds like you can report uh probably improvement on last year's of a pattern number reported at about 43,000 rupees. 42:15 42 minutes, 15 seconds So any color over here? Thank you so much sir. 42:18 42 minutes, 18 seconds So that's what we always indicate 35 to 36 plus tailwinds and uh as you can see the order book is not representing the entire uh uh requirement for the year. 42:29 42 minutes, 29 seconds Also there would be some order books part of some order book that could spill over to the next financial year and as you indicated earlier these are like our 42:37 42 minutes, 37 seconds medium to long-term guidance we don't give the guidances for next year. So uh we have been increasing our guidances 42:45 42 minutes, 45 seconds historically uh it used to be about 8 to 10,000 and from there gradually has gone up now to 35,000 to 36,000 which even in 42:53 42 minutes, 53 seconds the earlier quarter was about 30,000. So as in when we see more visibility uh we would take the call on that but for now 43:02 43 minutes, 2 seconds we feel that on a medium to long-term basis our margins could be in the range of 35 to 36,000 plus wins. 43:11 43 minutes, 11 seconds Okay sir. Uh thank you so much and all the very best. Thank you. 43:17 43 minutes, 17 seconds The next question comes from the line of Moit Kumar with ICICI securities. Please go ahead. 43:23 43 minutes, 23 seconds Yeah. Uh good afternoon and thanks for the opportunity. 43:28 43 minutes, 28 seconds So my first question is on the uh can you help us with your dependence on the Middle East for a specialty oil business in terms of sourcing and sales? 43:40 43 minutes, 40 seconds Okay. So, in terms of sourcing, u our uh we the the refinery that we source a 43:49 43 minutes, 49 seconds reasonable amount of quantity and have a long-term contract with is Saudi Aramco's base oil refinery in Yanbo. 43:57 43 minutes, 57 seconds Um so that refinery at the moment is still running. It hasn't shut down at all through the entire period. And they have been shipping product out of there. 44:05 44 minutes, 5 seconds as one of the refineries that has actually met every quarter's u requirement including the month of uh 44:12 44 minutes, 12 seconds April and now in the month of May. So from a sourcing standpoint there is not not a major impact from the refinery in 44:21 44 minutes, 21 seconds the Middle East. On the contrary, what has happened is that uh Saudi Arao's other subsidiary Sil which is our largest supplier then Formosa which is 44:30 44 minutes, 30 seconds out of Taiwan and many of the other refineries they had a major shock in the month of April where the raw materials which were on the way to their refineries got stranded. 44:40 44 minutes, 40 seconds So that's the reason why in the month of April all these issues have taken place. 44:46 44 minutes, 46 seconds By the time um we came into the month of May, alternate arrangements had been made as well as Saudi started loading large amount of quantities from Yanbu. 44:56 44 minutes, 56 seconds So out of the 9 to 10 million barrels that they were loading previously from Rashtarana that has been substituted 45:04 45 minutes, 4 seconds with about 7 million barrels from Yanbu itself. So there has been a bit of a you know substitution that has come in. 45:13 45 minutes, 13 seconds On the sales side, our transformer oil we have a very strong supply going into Saudi Arabia and Kuwait 45:22 45 minutes, 22 seconds and both of those um you know had been affected. Uh there were no shipments that went to their these geographies uh 45:31 45 minutes, 31 seconds in March. Nothing went in uh the month of April. However, in May um we have made shipments after you know getting 45:39 45 minutes, 39 seconds the increased freight cost etc. from uh these refineries. So I would still see and these are suppliers that have gone 45:46 45 minutes, 46 seconds into projects which are at very advanced stage where you know commissioning of the transformers and all that were coming up. 45:53 45 minutes, 53 seconds So I see that the Middle East business will continue to remain a little bit subdued until the until this war uh gets completed. There's also an impact in the 46:02 46 minutes, 2 seconds conductor division where we have certain contracts with Iraq and you know some of these places where the deliveries will 46:10 46 minutes, 10 seconds get uh pushed out until there's a resolution over here. Understood sir. Does that answer your question? 46:17 46 minutes, 17 seconds Yes, it did. Yeah. Uh my my second question is can you help us with the growth outlook in premium conductors in 46:24 46 minutes, 24 seconds domestic markets and compare the inquiry pipeline with the last year I'm specifically talking about A59 HTLS 46:33 46 minutes, 33 seconds railway overhead CTC conductors and copper plates. Yeah generally we see a good growth prospects 46:40 46 minutes, 40 seconds in this year there was a little bit of uh holding back of tenders last year. uh this year we expect lot of more tenders 46:49 46 minutes, 49 seconds to be finalized and accordingly the supplies will be more forthcoming and with regard to CTC also there has 46:58 46 minutes, 58 seconds been a good growth uh in the transformer segments while there's been overall more supply also because of the expansions which 47:06 47 minutes, 6 seconds have come through for us as well as competitors but overall market is growing so we see that as a positive so 47:14 47 minutes, 14 seconds mo you see as I mentioned in my uh opening remarks uh 45.8% 47:21 47 minutes, 21 seconds is the mix uh that we had of uh premium uh products and if you look at that as a 47:29 47 minutes, 29 seconds percentage of you know the current order book it's about it's a little over 50%. 47:35 47 minutes, 35 seconds So you will see you know continuing um growth happening u you know in these in these areas I mean as chana just 47:44 47 minutes, 44 seconds mentioned last question sir is it possible to sell the CTC conductor export market is and where are we in terms of getting those 47:52 47 minutes, 52 seconds approvals so there is absolutely a possibility of exporting it so far we uh had uh really 48:01 48 minutes, 1 second not exported product because there was a major deficit in the domestic market and to tell you honestly given the deep uh 48:09 48 minutes, 9 seconds relationships that Apar has had on the transformer oil side with all the major power transformer manufacturers across 48:15 48 minutes, 15 seconds the country who are the main users of the um of the CTC. So obviously there 48:23 48 minutes, 23 seconds was a lot of pressure to supply them as well. Now having gone through uh five phases of expansion within Apar we are 48:31 48 minutes, 31 seconds now in a position to start exporting the product. Initially we had got approvals from Middle East manufacturers and had started exporting to them. We are now 48:39 48 minutes, 39 seconds working towards getting approvals in Europe and the United States as well. So you know as you see going into FI as we 48:47 48 minutes, 47 seconds look at FI27 FI28 we will want to broadbase ourselves and look at exports. 48:53 48 minutes, 53 seconds Europe is definitely something which is uh an attractive market. In the case of the US, there is a tariff that the India 49:00 49 minutes CTC faces uh compared to a product that's manufactured locally in the US. 49:07 49 minutes, 7 seconds But we are in the process of exploring this because I don't think there's sufficient CTC manufactured in the US by itself. 49:14 49 minutes, 14 seconds Understood sir. Thank you. 49:16 49 minutes, 16 seconds You will you will see that as a higher percentage going forward. Thank you sir. Thank you. Thank you. 49:24 49 minutes, 24 seconds Okay. 49:26 49 minutes, 26 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. In the interest of time and fairness to others, please restrict yourselves to two questions. For any more questions, you 49:34 49 minutes, 34 seconds may rejoin the queue. The next question comes from the line of Amit Arwani with PL Capital. Please go ahead. 49:42 49 minutes, 42 seconds Hi sir, thank you for the opportunity. 49:45 49 minutes, 45 seconds Uh so first question on the cables capex which you uh said probably about 850 crics which we have envy for this year 49:54 49 minutes, 54 seconds also uh with earlier capexes we were probably trying for roughly about 10,000 cr revenue so any change in terms of uh 50:03 50 minutes, 3 seconds you know the volumes we want to achieve after this uh round of kix as I said frontloading the kix for for the future 50:11 50 minutes, 11 seconds years uh so what's the kind of uh long-term outlook and uh CAPEX is working towards getting to that 50:19 50 minutes, 19 seconds 10,000 crores. You know the we have already spent about 400 crores in FI26 and uh if you look at all the carry 50:27 50 minutes, 27 seconds forward projects which we have into FI27 that's about 850 crores. So the total spending has actually increased by 50:34 50 minutes, 34 seconds almost about 400 crores compared to what we had uh planned earlier and most of this is going into u uh there's a 50:43 50 minutes, 43 seconds certain set going into expansion of uh medium voltage uh cables both XLP as well as rubber based um that go into 50:52 50 minutes, 52 seconds data centers go into general uh expansions for utilities industries all of that there is a capacity increase for what we produce for the wind sector. 51:02 51 minutes, 2 seconds There's a capacity increase of what we produce for solar. There's also a capacity increase for what we produce for uh the railways and defense. So, 51:11 51 minutes, 11 seconds it's quite a broad base and um we are seeing this is a capex towards that 10,000 crores only. 51:20 51 minutes, 20 seconds All right. 51:20 51 minutes, 20 seconds It's just that we pulling it forward a little bit. If you would have staged it out um you know instead of spending 1 51:28 51 minutes, 28 seconds 1200 crores in uh 2 years you would have otherwise spent 800 crores in 2 years and then 400 in the third year. you're 51:36 51 minutes, 36 seconds trying to actually pull it forward, right? So is is the is the capacity kind 51:43 51 minutes, 43 seconds of funible? U since it's a data center, there would be different specs in in India and also in exports and you are 51:51 51 minutes, 51 seconds building capabilities there. So uh is your current capacity fungeible there? 51:55 51 minutes, 55 seconds And second uh uh what like what kind of expectations we have in terms of data center kind of contribution going 52:04 52 minutes, 4 seconds forward since we're building this capacity for that also. And second on margin we have about 10.2%. 52:11 52 minutes, 11 seconds Uh how these margins can move because we also talked about some competition in the domestic market and players are actually uh setting up their own setups 52:20 52 minutes, 20 seconds uh for this. So on these two aspects uh uh yeah that's the question. 52:26 52 minutes, 26 seconds Okay. In terms of fungibility the uh machineries are capable of producing uh different specification of products. So 52:35 52 minutes, 35 seconds the US has a combination of XLP but largely rubber based uh for the data centers. So that's one of the reasons 52:43 52 minutes, 43 seconds why we have added a capacity expansion uh to produce a much larger quantity of 52:49 52 minutes, 49 seconds these uh medium voltage uh you know EP EPR or polymer based uh cables. So you 52:57 52 minutes, 57 seconds know as this expansion happens the fungibility is going to remain reasonably high. 53:04 53 minutes, 4 seconds Second thing is you're talking about competition coming in. Yes there is a competition coming in. 53:09 53 minutes, 9 seconds You heard some very big names after Ultra Tech uh disrupted the u paints market. Now they are investing and 53:16 53 minutes, 16 seconds wanting to launch uh basically wires. Um we see our strength really in cables and especially in the specialtity cables for 53:25 53 minutes, 25 seconds all the segments that I mentioned to you. Um I don't think either the uh current plan or the immediate launch 53:33 53 minutes, 33 seconds that ultra tech you know uh is going to do the bilah ad a bila group is going to do is going to affect these high value 53:40 53 minutes, 40 seconds products. I think their focus is much more on the building wires and the building segment. Similarly the adani 53:47 53 minutes, 47 seconds group also seems to be focused more on you know the wires and the ldc or the light duty cables which go through the distribution network. 53:58 53 minutes, 58 seconds But we feel that there is a very large uh uh access that's available uh you know in the market both in India as well 54:06 54 minutes, 6 seconds as overseas and we are continuing to uh look at you know uh growing irrespective of what happens with respect to some of 54:14 54 minutes, 14 seconds these players. There could be uh you know increased competition uh to some extent. You may lose a percentage or so in eida here or there but the overall size of the pie will continue to grow. 54:27 54 minutes, 27 seconds All right. And sir on conductors what how the premium product volumes would have grown uh this year and uh what's 54:36 54 minutes, 36 seconds the outlook for next year in terms of the overall volumes growth in conductor and especially the premium product volumes growth uh uh in conductors. 54:46 54 minutes, 46 seconds Overall figures we are continuing to look at a 10% growth uh year on year on uh our conductor side uh by volume. We 54:56 54 minutes, 56 seconds are looking continuing to look at growing by 25% a year in our cable side of the business as well. So all these 55:03 55 minutes, 3 seconds expansions are all in line with that. We needed a 25% CAGGR to be able to get to 10,000 uh you know crores in that 5year time 55:12 55 minutes, 12 seconds frame when we launched the program. So we are very much on track. in fact maybe slightly ahead right so premium conductor how much they 55:21 55 minutes, 21 seconds have been the volume growth so premium conductors as I mentioned we 55:26 55 minutes, 26 seconds as a percentage uh 45% is a for the year 45.8% 8% so almost 46% for the year 55:37 55 minutes, 37 seconds right lastly on the US sales how was the US sales for this year and uh then what are the expectations they're building in 55:44 55 minutes, 44 seconds for F27 in terms of US sales so last year was obviously a a year that 55:51 55 minutes, 51 seconds was very badly affected because of that 20% uh premium that India had to pay or a penalty because of uh you know the 55:59 55 minutes, 59 seconds Russian oil uh purchase angle Currently the duty structures have got rationalized the total duty that you pay 56:08 56 minutes, 8 seconds on Indian products is 25%. Uh for both uh copper as well as aluminum cables 56:15 56 minutes, 15 seconds um because it falls under the section 232. 56:19 56 minutes, 19 seconds Um so the pricing is at that level we we feel that our business will go up in FI27. it will further go up in FI28 56:28 56 minutes, 28 seconds because we are spending a lot of time in getting approvals there and started getting from a much wider range of customers you know initial orders. 56:39 56 minutes, 39 seconds So uh you'll see a growth uh significant growth over the previous years in the US market on the cable side. Similarly we 56:47 56 minutes, 47 seconds see that the conductor side also will be higher than what we have seen in last year's numbers. 56:53 56 minutes, 53 seconds There are the short-term factors are not looking good because of you know higher freight costs and the uh product cost 57:00 57 minutes itself being high as I mentioned uh couple times in the call so far everybody in the world is uh is pushing 57:07 57 minutes, 7 seconds out you know decisions to the extent that they can because moment the war uh you know gets 57:15 57 minutes, 15 seconds over and energy costs come down you will automatically see an impact happening especially on aluminum 57:23 57 minutes, 23 seconds from the Thank you sir. Thank you so much. 57:30 57 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Amit Singh with 361 Capital. Please go ahead. 57:38 57 minutes, 38 seconds Uh yeah, thank you so much sir for taking the question. Uh my first question was on the US tariff scenario. 57:45 57 minutes, 45 seconds Uh recently US has changed their section 2C2 tariffs. There's a flat tariff for 50% on conductors and 25% on cables. So 57:55 57 minutes, 55 seconds how do we see the pipeline evolving due to these tariffs like is it beneficial for a power and how has the customer reaction been? My first question. 58:05 58 minutes, 5 seconds So uh what actually it has done under 232 is it with whatever rationalization has been done it seems like that now 58:14 58 minutes, 14 seconds this is here to stay for a while. So the the uncertaintity which was uh really the big problem that existed uh in the 58:22 58 minutes, 22 seconds last financial year that problem is now uh at least that visibility is there you can do a proper computation in terms of what the landed cost will be. So in that 58:31 58 minutes, 31 seconds sense it is uh positive. Um I guess India is still continuing to have discussions with the with the US uh 58:40 58 minutes, 40 seconds government and I don't know whether there could be reduced tariffs coming in but otherwise in the meantime whatever plans and whatever I'm discussing is considering the current tariffs under 58:49 58 minutes, 49 seconds section 232 and we see that that at these tariffs we will grow significantly in FI27 over 58:56 58 minutes, 56 seconds FI26 as far as the US market is concerned. Yeah, please bear in mind even an American producer will incur the duty on the aluminium exactly or 50%. 59:07 59 minutes, 7 seconds And the US imports close to 90% of its aluminum whereas it imports less than 5% of its 59:14 59 minutes, 14 seconds copper. So the impact on uh exporting products to the US which are aluminum based products is not as high as a 59:23 59 minutes, 23 seconds barrier which exists when you export copper based products. 59:27 59 minutes, 27 seconds Makes sense. and we export largely aluminium to the US. So that is okay. Yeah, makes sense. 59:33 59 minutes, 33 seconds Yeah. And uh so second question was on the competitive intensity in the domestic market. There is I think there's a private player who has who is 59:42 59 minutes, 42 seconds almost coming up with their uh carbon core technology for conductors and is I think close to getting a PGCIL approval. 59:50 59 minutes, 50 seconds So any comments on that or any R&D that we are doing apart from our HTLS segments that would negate that effect? 59:57 59 minutes, 57 seconds just a comment on that even earlier on actually but um in all 1:00:05 1 hour, 5 seconds these tenders with power grid and others there is a requirement to have past performance successfully. 1:00:11 1 hour, 11 seconds So if the parties who are coming up new they will not be given that easy access you know to sell and be acceptable or 1:00:20 1 hour, 20 seconds eligible in the tenders. They may come in vendor development type program but it may take time for them to get 1:00:26 1 hour, 26 seconds established. You know the the Alec C conductor is up to three times more expensive than the ACSR you know which is the cheapest base conductor. 1:00:37 1 hour, 37 seconds The difference between the two is made up more than made up based on two aspects. one is lower line losses and 1:00:46 1 hour, 46 seconds significantly higher amount of power that you can transfer um you know on the line. So unless those two are actually 1:00:53 1 hour, 53 seconds proved in field conditions um there is no easy way of taking a risk on the higher cost of the conductor. So 1:01:01 1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second it's not a if someone comes up with a new composite call it is not easy to actually just start getting large scale 1:01:08 1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds orders on that because if you fail on these two counts then the conductor has become very expensive number one. Number two is that most of these jobs are for 1:01:17 1 hour, 1 minute, 17 seconds debottlenecking like for example I mentioned earlier about Nabi Mumbai. So Ap has debottlenecked one arterial line 1:01:26 1 hour, 1 minute, 26 seconds coming into Mumbai and about four or five smaller lines. This has enabled more than doubling the amount of power 1:01:34 1 hour, 1 minute, 34 seconds that has been able to come into the city. 1:01:36 1 hour, 1 minute, 36 seconds Now you see the stakes are so high in terms of a project like that that you can't try out new products that easily. 1:01:45 1 hour, 1 minute, 45 seconds So the entry barriers are extremely high. 1:01:49 1 hour, 1 minute, 49 seconds Makes sakes makes sense. Yeah. Uh thank you so much for taking my questions. 1:01:52 1 hour, 1 minute, 52 seconds Those are my questions. Thank you and all the best. 1:01:56 1 hour, 1 minute, 56 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We would take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for their closing remarks. 1:02:07 1 hour, 2 minutes, 7 seconds I'd like to conclude by essentially saying that as in my concluding remarks that u we see at the moment um that 1:02:16 1 hour, 2 minutes, 16 seconds there is a a little bit of uncertaintity because of the war situation the prices of metal uh high premiums high freight 1:02:24 1 hour, 2 minutes, 24 seconds costs um etc. um some amount of postponement in decision making as a consequence of this or ordering of 1:02:32 1 hour, 2 minutes, 32 seconds materials which have been ordered. But as you look at the fundamental structure uh and the energy infrastructure it 1:02:40 1 hour, 2 minutes, 40 seconds continues to remain extremely strong and uh we are very bullish and uh based on that we have increased our own capex 1:02:48 1 hour, 2 minutes, 48 seconds programs um and and prep because we see that there is a a strong runway available over the next 3 to 5 years. 1:02:57 1 hour, 2 minutes, 57 seconds I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank all of you for joining this call and I know today is a public 1:03:03 1 hour, 3 minutes, 3 seconds holiday and uh thank you very much for uh for being with us. 1:03:10 1 hour, 3 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen on behalf of Apar Industries that concludes this conference call. Thank you for 1:03:17 1 hour, 3 minutes, 17 seconds joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.