Angel one ltd — Q4 FY26

Angel One Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmvySmKrpP0 Published: 3 weeks ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Angel One Limited Q4 F526 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the 0:09 9 seconds listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an 0:17 17 seconds operator by pressing star zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Hul Ka. Thank you and over to you Mr. 0:30 30 seconds Good morning and welcome everyone. Thank you for joining us today to discuss Ang's Q4 FI26 financial and business performance. The recording of today's 0:39 39 seconds earnings call and the transcript will be uploaded on our website under the investor relations section. The financial results, investor presentation 0:47 47 seconds and the press release are also available on the website. For today's call, Angel is represented by Mr. Dinhar, chairman 0:55 55 seconds and managing director. Mr. Amish Ken group CEO, Mr. Vinit Agraal, group CFO. 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds We also have the senior leadership team of angel 1 along with SJ our IR consultant. The leadership team will 1:10 1 minute, 10 seconds give us a brief overview of the operational and the financial performance of the quarter gown by the floor will then be open for Q&A. Please 1:18 1 minute, 18 seconds note that there may be certain for forward-looking statements during the course of the call which must be viewed in aggregate with the risks that the company faces. With this brief 1:27 1 minute, 27 seconds introduction, I now invite Mr. Din Takar for his opening webinar. Good morning everyone. Thank you. 1:36 1 minute, 36 seconds India is going through a structural shift in financial services driven by a rapid digital adoption, rising financial awareness and a young aspirational 1:44 1 minute, 44 seconds population entering formal market at scale. What matters just as much is how 1:51 1 minute, 51 seconds the participation is changing. Investors are not only entering the market, they are becoming more active, deploying more 1:59 1 minute, 59 seconds capital and using digital platforms as their main way to access financial services. Technology is accelerating 2:06 2 minutes, 6 seconds this shift. Data and digital platforms are making access simpler, improving decision making and enabling more 2:13 2 minutes, 13 seconds personalized journey across investing, saving, credit, wealth, and protection. 2:19 2 minutes, 19 seconds In this environment, the long-term winners will be platforms that combine scale, engagement, and trust. At Angel One, we are building that intersection. 2:30 2 minutes, 30 seconds Over the past year, as a regulatory framework evolved to support more balanced and sustainable market participation, client engagement 2:39 2 minutes, 39 seconds remained resilient. This reinforces our confidence in the long-term opportunity in India, where equity participation and 2:46 2 minutes, 46 seconds ownership remains low. leaving a long runway for growth. 2:53 2 minutes, 53 seconds Our average daily orders have recovered well and our operating margins are back within our guided range. This has been 3:00 3 minutes supported by deeper and more active participation on the platform reinforcing our confidence in the 3:07 3 minutes, 7 seconds structural drivers of our business across wealth, asset management and credit. We are seeing encouraging early 3:15 3 minutes, 15 seconds sign of scale in wealth. Unit economies are improving which gives us confidence to scale up further. In asset 3:23 3 minutes, 23 seconds management, we remain focused on strengthening and expanding our strategy. In credit, deeper client 3:29 3 minutes, 29 seconds engagement is translating into a into rising demand and we are scaling in a calibrated and disciplined manner. 3:38 3 minutes, 38 seconds Together, these businesses are helping us deepen client relationship and increase value per client over time. Our 3:46 3 minutes, 46 seconds ambition is clear to build a unified technology-led financial platform that supports client across their financial 3:54 3 minutes, 54 seconds journey from investing and wealth creation to access to credit. This journey is supported by balanced 4:01 4 minutes, 1 second regulatory framework led by CB and RBI which continues to support innovation while preserving stability and trust. As 4:10 4 minutes, 10 seconds we look ahead, we believe Angel 1 is well positioned to participate at scale in the next phase of growth in India's 4:17 4 minutes, 17 seconds financial service market driven by broader participation and deeper engagement. 4:23 4 minutes, 23 seconds I will now invite Amish to take you through the operational and business details. Thank you. 4:30 4 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you DT. Good morning everyone. As DT highlighted, India's financial participation is deepening rapidly 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds driven by digital adoption and a more engaged investor base. At Angel One, our strategy has been to stay ahead of this 4:46 4 minutes, 46 seconds evolution, strengthening our core, scaling new engines of growth, and embedding technology deeply across the organization. 4:55 4 minutes, 55 seconds This quarter reflects steady execution across each of these priorities. 5:00 5 minutes A defining pillar of this transformation is our shift towards becoming an AI native platform. We are moving 5:08 5 minutes, 8 seconds decisively from isolated AI use cases to platform level AI integration rearchitecting both client experiences and internal workflows. 5:19 5 minutes, 19 seconds During the quarter, we elevated Ask Angel into a conversational AIdriven assistant. It has evolved into a natural 5:27 5 minutes, 27 seconds language interface supporting client service, query resolution, IPO discovery, and stock insights. 5:35 5 minutes, 35 seconds Ask Angel is now embedded contextually across key journeys within the app, surfacing in the most relevant pages to 5:43 5 minutes, 43 seconds assist clients based on where they are in their investment journey. 5:49 5 minutes, 49 seconds This is powered by a robust hybrid architecture with proprietary agentic guardrails ensuring reliability, scalability and integrity. 6:00 6 minutes In parallel, among our AI enabled engineering teams, more than 50% of development is augmented by AI. It is an 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds integral part of day-to-day coding workflows, optimizing developer effectiveness and development timelines. 6:15 6 minutes, 15 seconds A testament of this is the transformation of ask angel itself whose development was supported through AI based tools. 6:24 6 minutes, 24 seconds More broadly, AI is now embedded across multiple efficiency effectiveness and growth initiatives for both our clients and the organization. 6:35 6 minutes, 35 seconds For instance, grievance email and ticket automation, real-time e- signature validation and onboarding KYC face 6:42 6 minutes, 42 seconds match. Their live facial recognition is matched against photo IDs with over 99% accuracy, thereby improving client experience. 6:53 6 minutes, 53 seconds To drive organizationwide effectiveness, we developed the data analyst agent which we have referenced in our previous earnings call. 7:02 7 minutes, 2 seconds Turning to the broking business, engagement rebounded meaningfully over the past year. Average daily orders 7:08 7 minutes, 8 seconds scaled from 5 million in February 25 to 7.4 million in March 26. Thus, taking 7:16 7 minutes, 16 seconds the aggregate order count to 431 million for the quarter, marking a six quarter high. 7:23 7 minutes, 23 seconds This strong recovery reflects resilience of our business amidst a softer macro backdrop due to geopolitical events like 7:32 7 minutes, 32 seconds global trade tariffs, ongoing wars, full implementation of FNO regulations, etc. 7:39 7 minutes, 39 seconds We sustained a 20.4% 4% share of overall retail equity turnover, an expansion of 46 bips year-over-year, and further 7:48 7 minutes, 48 seconds strengthened our demart market share to 16.7% higher by 54 dips year-over-year. 7:57 7 minutes, 57 seconds Our emerging businesses continue to scale with discipline. In credit, our lifetime cumulative dispersements 8:04 8 minutes, 4 seconds reached rupees 27.1 billion with rupees 6.1 billion dispersed during the quarter reflecting steady traction. 8:13 8 minutes, 13 seconds I would like to highlight here that we are today engaging with only a small segment of our clients for credit. The 8:21 8 minutes, 21 seconds embedded opportunity within our ecosystem remains large with our base consuming personal loans of over rupees 8:28 8 minutes, 28 seconds 1 trillion annually from the broader market. 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds Mutual funds continue to remain a high engagement product for us. It is a product with huge potential to create wealth and we are witnessing a growing investing culture in India through this. 8:45 8 minutes, 45 seconds Here too we are doubling down on simplifying the journeys for clients which is steadily enabling us to strengthen our foothold in the industry. 8:53 8 minutes, 53 seconds We continue to be the second largest provider of new SIP registrations in the country. 9:00 9 minutes Our wealth management business continues to gather strong momentum. Ionic Wells AUM crossed rupees 100 billion higher by 9:09 9 minutes, 9 seconds 23% quarterover quartarter. The already strong UHNI business has evolved into a 9:16 9 minutes, 16 seconds powerful flywheel, driving 2x growth over the last 12 months and enabling entry into larger and more discerning families. 9:27 9 minutes, 27 seconds The omni channel model central to wealthtech HNI segment has emerged as a proven mode. The platform is poised to 9:35 9 minutes, 35 seconds scale distribution and unlock the next phase of growth. assets under management per RM has grown 3x year-over-year. 9:45 9 minutes, 45 seconds Interestingly, greater than 45% of the,900 plus client base today is from nonmetros. 9:54 9 minutes, 54 seconds AI has evolved from experimentation into a core pillar driving scale and productivity. Today 80% of ionic 10:01 10 minutes, 1 second wealth's code base is AI generated accelerating build cycles and enabling rapid innovation. 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds In our AMC business we launched Angel1 silver ETF and angel one silver ETF fund of funds thereby taking the count of 10:17 10 minutes, 17 seconds number of schemes to 11 period ending AUM at rupees 3.6 6 billion was lower sequentially impacted 10:26 10 minutes, 26 seconds by softer market conditions and some redemptions in the liquid fund. 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds Interestingly, we saw our folio count increase by 28% sequentially to over 246,000 10:40 10 minutes, 40 seconds across 17,575 pin codes. To conclude, our focus remains on disciplined execution, 10:49 10 minutes, 49 seconds technology leadership, and earning client trust. Our foundations are strong, our capabilities are compounding, and we remain well 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds positioned to create durable long-term value. With that, I will now hand it over to Vinnie to walk you through the financials. 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds Good morning everyone and thank you for joining us. 11:11 11 minutes, 11 seconds Building on the strategic context shared earlier by Dinish Bay and Amish, I am pleased to share that the fourth quarter witnessed a meaningful improvement in 11:20 11 minutes, 20 seconds client engagement and platform activity translating into strong sequential growth across key operating and 11:27 11 minutes, 27 seconds financial metrics. Overall, the quarter reflects the resilience of our platform and the strength of client engagement, 11:35 11 minutes, 35 seconds resulting in one of the strongest quarters in our history while also positioning us well to scale our emerging businesses. 11:44 11 minutes, 44 seconds Despite one lesser trading day during the quarter, orders executed on the platform increased by 13.3% sequentially 11:53 11 minutes, 53 seconds to 431 million, reflecting strong client participation and improving trading intensity. This translated into gross 12:02 12 minutes, 2 seconds income growth of 9.7% quarteron quarter to rupees 14.7 billion while net income 12:09 12 minutes, 9 seconds increased by 10.4% 4% sequentially to 11.3 billion. During the uh growth during the quarter was primarily driven 12:18 12 minutes, 18 seconds by our core broking franchise with the share of broking revenues increasing to 60.7% of total gross income highlighting 12:27 12 minutes, 27 seconds improving trading activity across segments. 12:31 12 minutes, 31 seconds Within broking, we witnessed strong momentum in the commodities segment supported by a healthy rally in bullion and energy commodities with commodity 12:40 12 minutes, 40 seconds broking income growing 15.8% sequentially. Similarly, FNO revenues increased by 16.1% quarteron quarter 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds benefiting from elevated market activity and volatility during the quarter while the cash segment raised 4.6% sequential 12:57 12 minutes, 57 seconds growth. On the distribution side, revenues moderated sequentially primarily due to lower credit distribution and softer IPO activity. 13:06 13 minutes, 6 seconds Though this was partially offset by continued growth in the insurance distribution business. These trends remain largely cyclical in nature and we 13:15 13 minutes, 15 seconds expect gradual normalization as capital market issuance activity and credit demand strengthen. 13:22 13 minutes, 22 seconds Turning to interest income, the client funding book remained broadly stable sequentially while interest income from fixed deposits increased by 10.3% in 13:31 13 minutes, 31 seconds line with higher client balances and margin placements with clearing corporations. As client client engagement on the platform continues to 13:39 13 minutes, 39 seconds deepen, client funding and treasury income will continue to remain important contributors to the overall revenue mix over the medium term. 13:48 13 minutes, 48 seconds On the cost side, we continued to demonstrate disciplined fiscal control. 13:52 13 minutes, 52 seconds Employee and ESOP costs declined sequentially following normalization after the labor code implementation in the previous quarter along with some 14:01 14 minutes, 1 second attrition and incentive rationalization commensurate to period achievements. 14:05 14 minutes, 5 seconds Other operating expenses increased during the quarter due to higher client acquisitions, IPL related brand investments and a one-time reimbursement 14:14 14 minutes, 14 seconds of rupees 192 million to clients arising from an external market infrastructure disruption. 14:21 14 minutes, 21 seconds Excluding these items, the underlying cost structure remained well within control. 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds As a result, our reported EBDAT margin expanded by 227 basis points sequentially to 41.7%. 14:36 14 minutes, 36 seconds Importantly, adjusting for one-time items and IPL related spends, normalized EBD margin improved by 498 basis points 14:45 14 minutes, 45 seconds sequentially to 44.4% reinforcing the scal scalability and operation leverage embedded in the uh platform. 14:56 14 minutes, 56 seconds This strong operational performance translated into profit after tax for the quarter increasing by 19.2% sequentially to rupees 3.2 billion. 15:08 15 minutes, 8 seconds From a regulatory standpoint, the recent RBI directions relating to banks capital market exposures are expected to have 15:15 15 minutes, 15 seconds limited operational impact on us given our existing funding structures and collateral framework. While intraday credit availability from banks may 15:24 15 minutes, 24 seconds tighten leading to higher deployment of bank guarantees, the broader funding ecosystem remains diversified with 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds continued access to funds from NBFCs, NCDS and other market money market instruments like CPS. Our balance sheet 15:40 15 minutes, 40 seconds continues to remain very strong with a period end client funding book at 54.5 billion rupees net worth of 61.5 billion 15:48 15 minutes, 48 seconds rupees and cash and cash equivalence of 165.6 billion rupees providing ample liquidity and financial flexibility to 15:57 15 minutes, 57 seconds support growth while navigating regulatory developments. The elevated borrowings on the balance sheet were largely driven by year-on-year growth in 16:06 16 minutes, 6 seconds client funding book, margin deployment with CC's in line with elevated order volumes and temporary liquidity arrangement undertaken to ensure 16:15 16 minutes, 15 seconds uninterrupted operations around the banking holiday on 1st of April 2026. 16:20 16 minutes, 20 seconds As we look forward, we remain focused on strengthening the scaling of of emerging businesses alongside our core broking 16:28 16 minutes, 28 seconds franchise. In this direction, the company has proposed a capital infusion of up to rupees 1.5 billion rupees each 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds into our wealth management business and our NBFC platform which will enable us to scale these businesses meaningfully 16:44 16 minutes, 44 seconds and further diversify growth engines over the medium term. Overall, the improvement in trading activity during the quarter combined with expanding 16:52 16 minutes, 52 seconds retail participation and our continued investments in technology, product innovation and adjacent businesses positions us well to capture the 17:01 17 minutes, 1 second long-term structural opportunity in India's capital markets ecosystem. With that, I conclude my remarks and we would be now happy to take your questions. 17:10 17 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you. 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchstone telephone. If 17:21 17 minutes, 21 seconds you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. As a 17:28 17 minutes, 28 seconds reminder to all the participants, please restrict yourself to two questions. 17:32 17 minutes, 32 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question assembles. 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds The first question comes from the line of Sarna Mukharji with BNK Securities. Please go ahead. 17:45 17 minutes, 45 seconds Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of numbers. Uh two three questions from my side. First of all sir uh in terms of 17:54 17 minutes, 54 seconds the overall environment as you highlighted in the opening remarks that activity levels have picked up. I just wanted to understand uh you know uh in 18:02 18 minutes, 2 seconds terms of numbers for example the exit clients number that we are seeing of course this is a 12 month kind of a number but uh uh I mean that number has 18:10 18 minutes, 10 seconds been remaining static uh despite our orders run etc going up uh over the quarter so just wanted to understand 18:18 18 minutes, 18 seconds that is this like is there a slower activation rate of newer customers and that existing customers only are 18:26 18 minutes, 26 seconds providing more orders or is is that you know that's uh uh you know older customers uh you know who have not traded that impact is playing out. If 18:35 18 minutes, 35 seconds you could highlight on that and also is it related to the uh you know what would be your thoughts related to customer 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds acquisition going forward and uh you have previously highlighted that you know you're doing cost optimization related to that. So how how should we think about that run rate going ahead? 18:52 18 minutes, 52 seconds Uh so this is uh this is on the customer side and also if you could uh uh provide some quantification on the items you had 19:01 19 minutes, 1 second me mentioned in the presentation related to cost that will start playing out from one Q which is like uh how how should we 19:09 19 minutes, 9 seconds think about in terms of the employee costs and the ESOP grant you know what how should we build in the ESOP grant 19:17 19 minutes, 17 seconds esophage for the next year and the year after that that would be very helpful. Thank you sir. 19:24 19 minutes, 24 seconds Thanks for the questions. Uh you know on the uh N activives like you rightly said it's a 12 month metric. So there's a lot 19:32 19 minutes, 32 seconds that goes in in terms of sort of what was happening 12 months back which reflects potentially in the number that you see today. Um the the of course the 19:41 19 minutes, 41 seconds last year has been quite tumultuous and what you're starting to see now uh the good news is you're starting to see actually the industry add starting to 19:50 19 minutes, 50 seconds add uh net clients act nse active clients which was not the case for a few months um we've also added a few clients 19:58 19 minutes, 58 seconds now uh I do think that we should not look at like a few months but this is a yearly metric so I would say wait for a few months and you'll start seeing uh 20:06 20 minutes, 6 seconds more momentum on on that front. I don't think we should read too much into it. 20:11 20 minutes, 11 seconds Uh from a cost of acquisition, we've generally uh you know guided that it's continued to stay mostly on the stable 20:19 20 minutes, 19 seconds side and we continue to work on initiatives to make sure it stays uh within uh a reason and and hopefully bring in bring in more efficiency but we 20:28 20 minutes, 28 seconds don't um we don't disclose that cost specifically on the employee in ESOP. Uh Vinnie, do you want to take that? Yeah. 20:37 20 minutes, 37 seconds So sorry is just a quick follow up on this active users. Just wanted to understand that if I were to look at the 20:45 20 minutes, 45 seconds monthly active users uh for the industry would we be kind of our delta be mimicking that or would we be better off 20:53 20 minutes, 53 seconds or maybe slightly faster? If you could give some color on that that would be helpful. 20:59 20 minutes, 59 seconds I think we have uh we we don't guide on the monthly active users uh Swarma but we are continuing to add you know what we do disclose is that we are continuing 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds to add new users. We we do disclose our uh client acquisitions. In fact we uh disclose that every month. So we 21:14 21 minutes, 14 seconds continuing to have a healthy mix and mu in general is continuing to go up when the markets and you know this when the 21:21 21 minutes, 21 seconds markets are not uh doing well you know something like what happened in March for example was very unprecedented and there of course you see fewer users 21:29 21 minutes, 29 seconds coming back on the platform across the board so that's something that uh that we also saw but overall we are seeing a continuing increasing trend of uh MPUs 21:37 21 minutes, 37 seconds and MUS yeah please yeah Um so now on the employee cost uh 21:46 21 minutes, 46 seconds we will likely be within the same uh range of the FI 2026 number which is about 11 billion rupees including the 21:54 21 minutes, 54 seconds ESOP cost. ESOP numbers are being finalized as we speak. So I will be able to give you a more detailed answer about 22:01 22 minutes, 1 second this in the July call but it's likely to be in that same range as as it was last year. 22:09 22 minutes, 9 seconds Uh so just to clarify I mean it will have a similar run rate between FY27 and FY26. 22:16 22 minutes, 16 seconds Yeah I mean employee costs are not going to rise uh during the current year as compared to the last year. 22:25 22 minutes, 25 seconds Okay very helpful. Thank you so much. 22:31 22 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Swati Gupta with Hillfort Capital. Please go ahead. 22:38 22 minutes, 38 seconds Okay. Hi. Uh thanks a lot for um for hosting the conference uh and congratulations on a strong set of numbers. Um I just had one quick 22:47 22 minutes, 47 seconds question on the growth numbers. So if we um look at uh probably the marketing spend that we have been doing over the 22:55 22 minutes, 55 seconds last few years, right? Uh we have spent heavily on marketing and if we correlate that to the growth in in the numbers, 23:02 23 minutes, 2 seconds right? So if we look at the growth in the number of users or the turnover or the asset sizes es asset sizes 23:11 23 minutes, 11 seconds especially on the on the FNO and the equity derivative side I am not seeing a growth which is as high as I would have 23:20 23 minutes, 20 seconds hoped correlating it to the market in spend. So just wanted to get your views on this that you know um is there something structurally different in the 23:28 23 minutes, 28 seconds market which is not giving us you know as effective return on on advertising and marketing as we were getting before 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds and um just an extension to that the second piece of the question is in our so average revenue per user if we compare what we're getting for a new 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds user in f 25 uh fx 24 cohort or f23 cohort is lower than what we saw in 2021. 23:52 23 minutes, 52 seconds So is there like that's the other question like just trying to understand is there anything structurally different in the industry which might change the the numbers here. Thanks. 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second Hey Swati thanks uh thanks for the question. Uh I think in terms of the marketing uh numbers you have uh two kinds of numbers there right? One is 24:10 24 minutes, 10 seconds what we spend on branding and IPL of course is a large spend for us and what we do with performance marketing. uh the branding one you have to take a very 24:19 24 minutes, 19 seconds long-term view on that and there are different kinds of metrics like you know top of mind or TBC that we'll do so it's a you know as you know it's a very 24:26 24 minutes, 26 seconds different metric that one puts on it on the performance performance marketing of course we look at CAC and we we follow that closely the last year has been very 24:34 24 minutes, 34 seconds interesting right I mean and we have shown growth through that year and we had guided that look we'll get to a certain OPM and and and we are there uh 24:42 24 minutes, 42 seconds now uh you this last year actually a little bit of an aberration because there were this change in FNO regulations that the industry was also 24:50 24 minutes, 50 seconds adjusting to. So multiple changes that happened. Uh so that is creating a bit of aberration that you are um that you are seeing and on top of it there were 24:59 24 minutes, 59 seconds sort of these uh macro shifts as well. I think we have to wait for the next few quarters and and then uh m make a sense 25:07 25 minutes, 7 seconds of where uh the marketing spends are creating value or not. But like I said, brand is a very long-term thing and and 25:14 25 minutes, 14 seconds performance is what we really measure in terms of what it uh what it provides us. 25:24 25 minutes, 24 seconds Got it. Anything on the on the R2 piece that you can elaborate on? 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds I think RPU is also you know this is where you know the year comes in. And I think what you're looking at is that the 25:35 25 minutes, 35 seconds last year uh you've got a a bunch of uh events and regulations coming in that that are users in the ecosystem was 25:43 25 minutes, 43 seconds adjusting to. So that's that's what and and all the sort of macro events. So that sort of caused the ARPO there. We do have to wait for a few quarters and then uh judge how the RPO is trending. 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds Got it. Thank you. 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second Thank you. Next question comes from the line of PJ Chen with Motil Oswell Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead. 26:08 26 minutes, 8 seconds Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. Hi, congrats on great numbers. A few questions from my side. First just uh you know on a 26:15 26 minutes, 15 seconds couple of items on the P&L. So the 19.2 cr oneet one time hit. Uh could you explain that a bit more as to why was 26:23 26 minutes, 23 seconds that and do we have any recourse to that that that number? 26:30 26 minutes, 30 seconds Do you want to read that? Sure. 26:34 26 minutes, 34 seconds Morning P. Uh, Angel encountered a technical issue originating at the MI level which le led to an abnormal 26:42 26 minutes, 42 seconds training environment for our clients while the root cause was external and there was no obligation on us. We 26:49 26 minutes, 49 seconds proactively supported affected clients through a one-time goodwill gesture. 26:56 26 minutes, 56 seconds But do we have a recourse to it in a way? Can you recover this from the master intermediary? 27:01 27 minutes, 1 second We are continuing to work with the MI uh on on on this and uh and looking to resolve it. 27:09 27 minutes, 9 seconds Got that. Uh and you know you mentioned about AI investments uh to kind of know 27:16 27 minutes, 16 seconds and going full-fledged out there. Uh so that is primarily to drive down costs or 27:23 27 minutes, 23 seconds and you know you vinit mentioned that employee cost will be uh stable between FI26 and FI27 including the use of cost. 27:31 27 minutes, 31 seconds So just trying to figure out whether some bit of efficiencies will be coming in from AI too or how do you think about AI investments and the returns from those. 27:40 27 minutes, 40 seconds So uh yeah know that's a fantastic question and everybody uh in the world is looking at that. Uh the way we look we think of it is that it's not just 27:49 27 minutes, 49 seconds efficiencies you have to think of it's a new world right the world around us is changing and therefore how do we think about our organization our business our 27:57 27 minutes, 57 seconds clients overall. So you which is why you're seeing initiatives across the board and the whole idea is not just to go after efficiencies but actually 28:06 28 minutes, 6 seconds create growth from it and every little bit that we do it's efficiencies effectiveness it is you know what we're 28:13 28 minutes, 13 seconds doing with ask angel on engagement uh so you will see this permeate all parts of of the work uh work that we do uh and of 28:22 28 minutes, 22 seconds course you know like um Venit mentioned there are some efficiencies that will uh get driven through as well But we are 28:29 28 minutes, 29 seconds not in a hurry to do any of that. We want to make sure we go it in a very methodical way. Very very long-term view 28:36 28 minutes, 36 seconds on this. Um I've said this before. I think people are uh overestimating what AI can do in the short term and underestimating what will happen in the 28:44 28 minutes, 44 seconds long term and we continue to be focused on the long term. uh does that mean your investment or OPEX will kind of increase 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds for these AI investments and uh so you know the savings that you would see on the employee cost front will be offset 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds by some higher cost on the OPEX front we are definitely increasing our our investments in AI but in a very measured 29:07 29 minutes, 7 seconds and sustainable way uh so of course you know there are efficiencies that come in some of it will get uploaded but it's 29:14 29 minutes, 14 seconds not just uh it's not just efficiencies in um employee costs but you are seeing efficiency across the board in in the tools that we use how things get done. 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds So you so each of these efficiencies you know initially there may be a higher cost to it and over a period of time it starts giving more leverage but we will definitely plow in the efficiencies that 29:33 29 minutes, 33 seconds we go across the board into uh new technologies and growth that we can do for the long term. 29:39 29 minutes, 39 seconds So now you had kind of guided for a 40% uh margin and exit rate on the broking business which you very well achieved. 29:48 29 minutes, 48 seconds Uh now what would you guide for a exit rate for FI27? 29:53 29 minutes, 53 seconds Look I don't want to give you [laughter] I don't want to give you a specific number on it but what I tell you is that uh because we are keeping a close eye on 30:02 30 minutes, 2 seconds efficiencies and costs. Therefore, as revenue grows, uh you get, you know, if you keep the cost steady, you get some operating leverage out of that right 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds away. And any more efficiencies we get will create, you know, more more uh margin expansion. So, we do hope that there'll be and we we do think that 30:18 30 minutes, 18 seconds there'll be more margin expansion from here. I don't want to guide you on a on a specific uh number on that. Um but 30:28 30 minutes, 28 seconds because at the same time, you know, you should of course when we guide on some of these, it's on broking and distribution. Um but even in that business if we get opportunities for 30:36 30 minutes, 36 seconds growth we will blow it back. Therefore I would want to give you a specific number but in general you can expect margin expansion. 30:43 30 minutes, 43 seconds Right. Last question. Why did the cash segment realizations drop in this quarter? So we were expecting it to increase right. 30:53 30 minutes, 53 seconds I think it it uh you know uh it depends on you know what happens in terms of the uh in terms of the order ratios and what 31:01 31 minutes, 1 second kinds of orders happen. Uh part of it is that this been a quite a uh quite an interesting uh quarter if I may. You 31:08 31 minutes, 8 seconds know March was quite uh quite quite a quite a difficult uh month in terms of everything that was happening around it. 31:16 31 minutes, 16 seconds So I won't read too much into it. 31:19 31 minutes, 19 seconds Got that. Thank you and wish you all the best. 31:25 31 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Sankrit Koda with Eve Despa. Please go ahead. Yeah. Uh thank you for the opportunity. 31:34 31 minutes, 34 seconds So my my first question is probably [clears throat] the the sharp drop in the employee cost uh compared to third quarter and the current quarter and and 31:42 31 minutes, 42 seconds and also despite ESOP cost going up and and you also guiding that number to be uh flat for the next year. So, so 31:50 31 minutes, 50 seconds anything to read that that there has been a meaningful drop in the employee count uh with with the tech thing in 31:56 31 minutes, 56 seconds what you're trying to say and and uh and and that that that if it is it is it is a benefit beyond FI27 then then how do 32:05 32 minutes, 5 seconds we see maybe maybe the same question how do we see the margins to play out assuming assuming fourth quarter is going to repeat um in in a best case 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds scenario for next entire year in in that sense in in the revenue terms at least So that's that's my 32:21 32 minutes, 21 seconds yeah sankit as I mentioned and Amish also reinforced the fact that uh we are using technology and therefore we will 32:29 32 minutes, 29 seconds see efficiencies coming across the board and those efficiencies over a period of time will also see our uh cost uh line 32:36 32 minutes, 36 seconds items also getting better. So uh you will see that happening and therefore we maintain that our employee cost will be 32:44 32 minutes, 44 seconds flat year on year uh in spite of all the efforts that we are doing and the growth of business that we going to see. 32:51 32 minutes, 51 seconds So so have you uh have you seen a decline in the employee count or or if you can spell the number compared to the previous quarter to current quarter that 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds should be giving a color to us. Yeah, I mean the employee count keeps on generating. There will be opportunities 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds in the businesses where we will fill the gaps of critical uh uh hire and there will be uh 33:13 33 minutes, 13 seconds instances where the bank strength that we have will fulfill the need for the business. So uh there is a marginal 33:20 33 minutes, 20 seconds decline in the employee count uh quarter on quarter and as we go along uh we will continue to optimize on that. 33:29 33 minutes, 29 seconds Understood. And and the second uh second thing is that um uh they just wanted to understand uh if you can give the break up of net broking into direct and 33:38 33 minutes, 38 seconds authorized person which I did not find it in the PBT this time and and related to that uh your commodity broking also 33:45 33 minutes, 45 seconds has come down. So so is it to face fair say that uh the direct guys are trading more in commodity compared to the AP guy 33:52 33 minutes, 52 seconds and that's the yields have come down and that will be the new trend. 33:57 33 minutes, 57 seconds uh on the uh split between the broking uh of the broking revenue between the assisted business and the direct business it remains more or less same at 34:05 34 minutes, 5 seconds about uh 25 27% coming from the assisted business and about uh 75 odd% coming from the direct business and I'm sorry I 34:14 34 minutes, 14 seconds couldn't get your second question. Uh no sorry I I was saying your broking yield in in the commodity market uh commodity 34:21 34 minutes, 21 seconds segment has come off meaningfully. Uh so so uh whether whether is it fair to say that the direct guys who are on flat 34:30 34 minutes, 30 seconds pricing model are are relatively trading more in the commodity market compared to the authorized person which was maybe the case couple of quarters back and and 34:39 34 minutes, 39 seconds that's that's the new normal in the broking yield realization in the commodity. uh is is my assessment right or not is is the point I'm trying to check. 34:50 34 minutes, 50 seconds No, I think look in commodities what happened is again I think these are I won't read too much into it because what's happened is that there's lots of 34:58 34 minutes, 58 seconds changes recently you've seen there was this whole sort of gold and silver uh you know pricing uh prices that were uh 35:05 35 minutes, 5 seconds you know fluctuating for example in February and then you saw a lot of action on crude uh in March. So some of 35:12 35 minutes, 12 seconds these will will change due to that but I won't read too much into it. There isn't any meaningful shift on that. The thing 35:18 35 minutes, 18 seconds though is that overall there is a uh there is a rise in commodities over a period of time the market is expanding because it's also a newer product that 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds uh you know I think that people are getting introduced to. So you're seeing a bit of that but there isn't any major change in the short term there that we are seeing. 35:36 35 minutes, 36 seconds Okay understood. And and lastly a fundamental question sir that um if if I look at our numbers whether it is margin 35:43 35 minutes, 43 seconds trade funding book market size or or market share or even if I compare the cash ADTO FM ADTO or even commodity ADTO 35:51 35 minutes, 51 seconds we we broadly seems to have stagnated with respect to the market share. Uh last part of the growth which we see is largely getting reflected by the market 36:00 36 minutes tailwinds rather than we accelerating the market share. I understand that market was not benign but in in last one 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds year or one more than one one year but but uh some way the stagnation in the market share uh if you can uh address it 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds how how do you see it can improve what measures you have taken maybe maybe if you can give a color on that thing uh will be useful and and lastly uh last 36:26 36 minutes, 26 seconds year you disclosed the cohort analysis this time it is missing in the PPT if if if he I'm not sure why why it's not there uh but if you and give a color 36:35 36 minutes, 35 seconds there also it will be useful in that sense. 36:38 36 minutes, 38 seconds Yeah. Hi thanks for the thanks for the question. See let me actually uh you know come to the facts on the market share. So when you look at the FNO 36:45 36 minutes, 45 seconds premium market share quarter over quarterarter we have grown by 51 pips and year-over-year we have grown by 77 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds bips right. uh when you look at overall equity market share when you divide when you when you add up cash and fno uh 37:00 37 minutes premium year over year we have grown 46 bips and quarter over quarter we've slightly down by four bits mostly flat 37:07 37 minutes, 7 seconds okay so there is there is expansion there uh coming to commodity in commodity you know quarter over quarter 37:15 37 minutes, 15 seconds we have gone 100 bits uh year over year actually we've we've dropped and that's where I explained that in fact the market expansion has happened because as 37:23 37 minutes, 23 seconds as um more and more people enter this market the market expands and to to keep a market share of you know 54 55% or 60% 37:32 37 minutes, 32 seconds is is is u is untenable then because the market is expanding but we are again you know I think continuing to expand which we are showing through the quarter 37:39 37 minutes, 39 seconds overquarter growth in cash uh specifically you're seeing a year-over-year drop of about 37 bips and 37:46 37 minutes, 46 seconds quarter over uh quarter drop of 117 bips now in cash March was very special so March ends up being a uh month in which 37:56 37 minutes, 56 seconds our cash share drops generally because of the client behavior and the types of clients we have at that time. But the second thing that happened in March is 38:04 38 minutes, 4 seconds also the market environment where the market was dropping sharply and depending on the segment of customers you have uh and the and the market 38:13 38 minutes, 13 seconds conditions the market share can vary. uh I I I fully think that in in April you know when we publish our numbers you 38:21 38 minutes, 21 seconds will see a bit of a bounce back in those numbers. So overall I would say just to summarize this right I think there is 38:30 38 minutes, 30 seconds an expansion there know there is increase in market share that we are showing on cash you are specifically on cash you are seeing a bit of a dip 38:38 38 minutes, 38 seconds because of March and on commodity it's bit of a you know market expansion thing which is good I think market expands and then everybody grows in that process 38:46 38 minutes, 46 seconds uh understood in in cohort cohort related uh question I mean the the details about the cohort related 38:54 38 minutes, 54 seconds revenues that uh data is still there on slide number 12. So you can check that. 39:01 39 minutes, 1 second Okay. Sorry, maybe I missed it. Uh uh thanks. Uh that's it for my side. Yes. Thank you. 39:09 39 minutes, 9 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Vive Raakushi with DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. 39:16 39 minutes, 16 seconds Sir, uh good morning and congratulations on uh on an excellent performance. So my questions are all around the credit 39:23 39 minutes, 23 seconds business uh which uh which which you say there's tremendous potential now in Q4 we've seen a drop in volumes and in fact 39:31 39 minutes, 31 seconds last year also Q4 there was a drop in volumes is it seasonal two uh in terms of your partnerships uh you know I 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds understand that you will not be taking any of the credit risk but have your models been validating what the customer behavior has been uh post giving the 39:49 39 minutes, 49 seconds loan which builds better credibility with your partners s can you take that question? 39:57 39 minutes, 57 seconds So I just to answer the first question, I don't think there is a seasonality. Uh last year also there was a dip. This year also there was a dip. I mean it is 40:04 40 minutes, 4 seconds coincidental. There were some ecosystem challenges that we faced uh this quarter and which is why there is a small dipu 40:13 40 minutes, 13 seconds from Q3 that you see here. In terms of uh the great models, I think our models are becoming better uh uh quarter over quarter and uh in some shape and form. 40:23 40 minutes, 23 seconds there is validation from a couple of large partners that we work with and uh uh over time we see uh this capability only increasing going forward. 40:34 40 minutes, 34 seconds Thank you very much. Just one clarification there is no credit exposure that comes onto your books right where we have FLG or anything which will be there on your books in this in this portfolio. 40:45 40 minutes, 45 seconds Yeah, in the distribution business there is no risk whatsoever on our books. No FLG whatsoever. 40:52 40 minutes, 52 seconds Excellent. Thank you very much and wish you all the best. Thank you. 40:58 40 minutes, 58 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Gotham Chen with GCJ Financials. Please go ahead. 41:06 41 minutes, 6 seconds Good morning. Congratulations for a great set of numbers. Uh just want to get a clarification that employee cost on FI27 would be similar to FI26. Is that correct? 41:18 41 minutes, 18 seconds That's right. it's going to be in line with what we've spent in FI 2026. 41:23 41 minutes, 23 seconds Okay. And second question is uh so uh obviously your margin forecast which is 40 to 45%. Will be taken out in the FI28 41:33 41 minutes, 33 seconds end. So uh we want to increase our guidance FI 29 onwards because if our revenue grow uh more than expenses 41:41 41 minutes, 41 seconds obviously revenue the margin will expand further. Your comment on that? Look, I think uh I think you're talking about 41:48 41 minutes, 48 seconds FI. So FI 26 is what we had guided for it to 45% on broking and distribution and I think you're talking about FI 27, right? 41:56 41 minutes, 56 seconds I'm talking about 28. I mean by that time I think we will exceed 45% margin. So uh will we expand our guidance? 42:04 42 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah, I I look I don't want to like go far that far as if I went hand but you will see a margin expansion. I think you know you should you should look for 42:12 42 minutes, 12 seconds higher than 45% uh margin uh on broking and distribution but like I said look it depends on if we get growth opportunity 42:19 42 minutes, 19 seconds to invest in then we will we will go ahead and invest in it because we will not uh we will not reduce our long-term 42:26 42 minutes, 26 seconds growth uh for managing quartertoquarter um OPM uh but you should you should think of it uh in the margin expanding 42:33 42 minutes, 33 seconds further okay so non-employ cost can we assume that 10% would be should 42:41 42 minutes, 41 seconds something which we can vary for other expenses other than entry cost. 42:48 42 minutes, 48 seconds Uh yeah, I mean again it depends on the uh the how the business grows, how we see the opportunities in the market in 42:56 42 minutes, 56 seconds terms of client acquisitions and the uh business volumes growing. So uh there will be commensurate increase in the 43:03 43 minutes, 3 seconds cost with the uh growth in the business and the opportunities that we want to harness. 43:11 43 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you Mr. Jen. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Sahage Mitt with 43:18 43 minutes, 18 seconds Access Max life insurance. Please go ahead. 43:21 43 minutes, 21 seconds Uh hi uh morning. Uh just uh one question on your uh customer acquisition cost. So uh one trend which played out 43:30 43 minutes, 30 seconds in FI26 was that our cap per customer and new customer acquired has gone up materially right. So how do we see our CAC moving I mean per customer in FI27? 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds Do we see that coming down per customer or how should we think about it? And on overall customer additions what is our 43:51 43 minutes, 51 seconds strategy on will that number be higher than FI26 or 43:57 43 minutes, 57 seconds [clears throat] 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds Arif? Do you want to take the CAT question? 44:01 44 minutes, 1 second Yeah. And on the number of customer editions I mean will it be higher than FI26? I mean how are we thinking about that? Yeah. 44:09 44 minutes, 9 seconds Yeah. I can take both the questions. 44:12 44 minutes, 12 seconds Yeah. I think uh let me uh take to you know second question which is the uh client edition first right. So one it 44:21 44 minutes, 21 seconds depends on uh the general buoyancy in the market in terms of how many people are entering the market right our focus would be on uh how do we gain market 44:30 44 minutes, 30 seconds share on the new additions while focusing on the quality of the clients that we acquire. So uh difficult to put 44:37 44 minutes, 37 seconds a number on it but broad strategy is uh gain market share and focus on getting the higher quality of you know client 44:43 44 minutes, 43 seconds who can add higher revenue for us right on the cost with u the cost of acquisition depends on uh a bunch of 44:50 44 minutes, 50 seconds variables channel mix channel you know pricings but more importantly on the tactical opportunity that you see to 44:58 44 minutes, 58 seconds push for a larger mix of high value clients in that quarter or in that month right so it can go up and down a little bit uh but I think more or less we 45:07 45 minutes, 7 seconds expect uh you know cost of acquisition to remain in the range of uh similar levels at this point of time. 45:15 45 minutes, 15 seconds Got it. Got it. Okay. Perfect. Thanks a lot and all the best. 45:22 45 minutes, 22 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Nidesh Jen with Mist. Please go ahead. 45:29 45 minutes, 29 seconds Uh thanks for the opportunity. Uh two question. First is on NBFC. We are we are planning to uh infuse capital. Uh are we thinking of offering more credit 45:37 45 minutes, 37 seconds products and keeping those products on a balance sheet? And second question is on AITA drag from the new initiatives for the full year and the path to break even on that drag. 45:49 45 minutes, 49 seconds S will take the NBFC question and then uh Venit on the other one. 45:55 45 minutes, 55 seconds So I mean uh we have a lot of customers who have asset uh in our securities in our demat and uh they should have the 46:04 46 minutes, 4 seconds ability to raise credit at a at a lower cost than personal loans and which is why we are starting uh loan against securities business on our own balance 46:12 46 minutes, 12 seconds sheet which is largely just a credit limit on uh pledgeum with us with a seamless digital journey and instant dispersal and since we have customer 46:21 46 minutes, 21 seconds assets in our demat and great engagement on our platform there is a great right to play and possibly great right to win and scale this play on our platform. And 46:30 46 minutes, 30 seconds as we understand more about our customers, build more understanding of the credit business, we'll continue to invest in credit on our own balance sheet and which is where uh the current 46:38 46 minutes, 38 seconds investment comes in on the um operating margin uh drag for 46:45 46 minutes, 45 seconds the newer businesses. Uh I think for the current year we will uh we will have a in the range bound of about 2 and a half 46:53 46 minutes, 53 seconds to 3%. So that's going to be there as it was in the last year. 46:59 46 minutes, 59 seconds And if I may add nites u we'll have to treat uh the core broking and distribution business independent of the 47:07 47 minutes, 7 seconds newer businesses because uh these are growth drivers and we are enabling them only now. So there is a long runway for 47:16 47 minutes, 16 seconds their growth going forward and therefore uh uh you know we should not look at Evita as a mix of all businesses taken 47:25 47 minutes, 25 seconds together. They all are very different and they follow a different growth trajectory and even their metrics of uh assessment or analysis will be very 47:33 47 minutes, 33 seconds different from the way the broking business gets evaluated. 47:38 47 minutes, 38 seconds The other thing very quickly I wanted to clarify on the NBFC question is that when Sorup says balance sheet it is uh 47:44 47 minutes, 44 seconds really uh the NBFC uh doing the last product just uh you know I just want to make sure that that's very clear. 47:53 47 minutes, 53 seconds Sure. Sure. And uh for this 200 250 to 300 basis point negative drag on the from the new business uh what is your 48:01 48 minutes, 1 second view on uh the timeline when it will get broken even. 48:07 48 minutes, 7 seconds So um uh Vesh each of these businesses has a different trajectory of breaking event because they have started at 48:16 48 minutes, 16 seconds various points in time and of course they are all very different businesses too and they all have their own destination. Our belief is uh our wealth 48:25 48 minutes, 25 seconds business for instance is is going to achieve a break even in about three three and a half years is something that we have already indicated to the street. 48:33 48 minutes, 33 seconds We are of course looking to invest further into that very business uh for the sheer reason that we are seeing 48:40 48 minutes, 40 seconds significant growth there. So look it is again a function of how businesses evolve what looks like a like a break 48:48 48 minutes, 48 seconds even trajectory but in the same time if you're able to see unit economics doing well we may actually invest more. So 48:55 48 minutes, 55 seconds it's it's a it's a it's a tough call today. These are all very nent businesses but allow it to mature for some more time before we start having these conversations in greater detail. 49:07 49 minutes, 7 seconds Sure. Thank you. Thank you. That's it for my side. 49:13 49 minutes, 13 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of J Praash with Corman Capital. Please go ahead. 49:19 49 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. I sir uh I just want to understand uh this reinvestment which you did to the clients uh the nature of it, which 49:27 49 minutes, 27 seconds product categories, which uh services uh guide on that. 49:37 49 minutes, 37 seconds Um I think we've given enough information on that. It was a one-off event and uh we would like to keep it at that. This happened sometime in March 49:45 49 minutes, 45 seconds and u we are engaging with the relevant MI and u hopefully uh we'll sort this 49:52 49 minutes, 52 seconds out with them. I do want to sort of clarify again just to be for full clarity. There was no obligation on us to do this and like you know Ven and 50:00 50 minutes Davin have mentioned we did it as a one-time uh goodwill gesture. 50:07 50 minutes, 7 seconds Okay. Uh thank you sir and uh I have uh this IPL costs uh this is uh I think slightly higher than uh this is I think 50:16 50 minutes, 16 seconds you given some color on the slide that uh it will be next quarter it will be higher uh than what we have currently so 50:24 50 minutes, 24 seconds it will be significantly higher uh or just marginally higher that's the one question and if you can give me the full 50:30 50 minutes, 30 seconds form of MI that 50:37 50 minutes, 37 seconds uh sorry on the IPL cost um the overall cost that we will incur during this 50:44 50 minutes, 44 seconds season and incidentally the season started pretty late in March so there was a lower cost that got booked in 50:51 50 minutes, 51 seconds quarter 4 but overall it will be about 1.5 billion rupees as we have been spending in the past as well so no uh 50:59 50 minutes, 59 seconds major increment in the cost as far as the overall uh spends during the IPL season are concerned um what was your 51:06 51 minutes, 6 seconds second I think the MI is I think you asked the full market infrastructure institutions. I think these are uh intermediaries. 51:16 51 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. Okay. Thank you. 51:22 51 minutes, 22 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Tipangen Kosh with City. Please go ahead. 51:30 51 minutes, 30 seconds Hello. Am I audible? Yes, you are. Please go ahead. Yes. So uh a few questions from my side. 51:36 51 minutes, 36 seconds Uh first you know uh we have gone through a few phases of market volatility in the last uh uh 12 to 18 months uh both on the regulation front 51:44 51 minutes, 44 seconds and also on the uh global uh geopolitical front. uh now when you look at your uh cohorts of customers uh on 51:51 51 minutes, 51 seconds the backpack uh and you know let's say broken between those precoid postcoid uh through the AP channel without the AP 51:59 51 minutes, 59 seconds channel uh in in terms of behavior of those customer if you can give some color on uh during these major events uh and maybe with a focus more from March 52:08 52 minutes, 8 seconds perspective I mean how do you see the behavior uh different between various cohorts of customers or various customers of differentiated uh 52:17 52 minutes, 17 seconds demographics uh some broad color on that will be useful. Uh the second question uh is on ionic uh wealth. Uh obviously I mean you 52:25 52 minutes, 25 seconds have articulated your strategy in terms of sustained investments in that uh but out of the a raised till now uh which is 52:33 52 minutes, 33 seconds around 100 uh billion uh in terms of uh the potential hurdles uh that you see in this particular business uh whether it 52:41 52 minutes, 41 seconds is in terms of new talent acquisition or whether it's in terms of uh getting new flows from potential clients. I mean what are the hurdles uh do you really 52:50 52 minutes, 50 seconds see uh in this particular uh uh business of at least from the medium-term perspective and any color on growth 52:58 52 minutes, 58 seconds aspirations uh out here. Uh the third question is uh on the other expenses uh and this is more exclusive of IPL spends 53:07 53 minutes, 7 seconds um uh a good portion of their expenses is marketing expenses and tech initiatives. So uh if the market 53:14 53 minutes, 14 seconds environment were let's say to remain uh weak hypothetically uh what sort of flexibility do you really have uh in 53:21 53 minutes, 21 seconds terms of curtainment uh rather who do you want to curtle if let's say there's a prolonged u period of train in the bottom markets 53:29 53 minutes, 29 seconds hi thank you for your questions uh I'll take one and three and then I'll send the number two to shriant later on the 53:37 53 minutes, 37 seconds behavior and you talked about march um in general what happened happens is that when uh markets are volatile like that 53:47 53 minutes, 47 seconds and and going down drastically and there's a lot of uncertainty uh not everybody wants to invest or uh or trade 53:55 53 minutes, 55 seconds at that time. So you see fewer people showing up on the platform but people who show up and these are I think uh more higherend sometimes customers who 54:03 54 minutes, 3 seconds will uh you know whose uh you know average revenue per client and tends to be higher the uh lower end of the of the 54:12 54 minutes, 12 seconds um of the segment lot of time customers who are not investing or trading as much many times stay away uh from the markets 54:19 54 minutes, 19 seconds in in such volatility again you can't generalize fully but that's sort of the broad guidance I can give you in terms of behavior uh on the other expenses and 54:28 54 minutes, 28 seconds or you know just talking about marketing and tech initiatives uh look I mean last year uh has been quite a quite an 54:36 54 minutes, 36 seconds interesting year in everything that has happened uh but we think of long-term so we stay committed to what will drive 54:44 54 minutes, 44 seconds long-term growth in a sustainable way so wherever it makes sense wherever it is sustainable we'll continue to make those investments instead of trying to uh 54:53 54 minutes, 53 seconds manage to a certain pattern for OPM we do want to be sustainable in the long term. I do hope and really think that 55:01 55 minutes, 1 second you know markets um turn around there are some uh signs of uh that as well across the board but if there are uh 55:09 55 minutes, 9 seconds challenges we'll of course make a judgment call at that time but in general we will not compromise long-term growth uh for for short short-term 55:16 55 minutes, 16 seconds results uh for Ionic Shrihan do you want to take that yeah no sure okay thanks for the 55:23 55 minutes, 23 seconds question uh look I think we are building this is a team which has built wealth over periods of time. So if one 55:31 55 minutes, 31 seconds understands uh what sort of goes behind building a steady sustainable wealth business then some of the hurdles as you 55:40 55 minutes, 40 seconds mentioned whether it's competition intensity whether it's talent is actually a very normal course of going through the motions of the business in 55:48 55 minutes, 48 seconds fact for us in less than two year the AUM numbers that we sort of happily reported is just a manifestation of 55:56 55 minutes, 56 seconds making sure that we don't play for a particular cycle or a particular trend or particular product but we build wealth as a slightly more horizontal 56:04 56 minutes, 4 seconds business where we are able to capture uh different shades of what is right for the customer at a particular point of time and given the fact that you build 56:12 56 minutes, 12 seconds it with all the right tenets. We on the other hand uh have been have been actually quite fortunate to see reasonable interest from inbound quality 56:21 56 minutes, 21 seconds of talent. We recently announced a very senior hireer to lead our ultra high net worth business as as the as the as the 56:28 56 minutes, 28 seconds CEO for that business. So I think while you're right that there are more and more players who are entering this space 56:35 56 minutes, 35 seconds but if one does this business with the right tenets then the hurdles actually don't look like that big a hurdle to 56:42 56 minutes, 42 seconds cross and for us so far we focus on the fact that if we can give clients the right experience if we stay out of any 56:49 56 minutes, 49 seconds unwanted sort of uh extreme measures on either side regulatory everything is well within the norm and use technology to increase productivity I think if 56:58 56 minutes, 58 seconds those pillars are uh don't see any huge hurdles as far as building this business is concerned. 57:06 57 minutes, 6 seconds Uh got it. Thank you. Just if I can squeeze one small question on the MTF book and uh there's a pretty interesting disclosure in your presentation on the 57:13 57 minutes, 13 seconds book aging uh on the client funding side. Now if I look at that uh chart closely, it uh shows that almost twothird of the book unwinds within a 57:22 57 minutes, 22 seconds 30-day period or broadly within a 30-day period. uh now have you guys done some exercise on you know these customers and 57:30 57 minutes, 30 seconds given that the MTF has exploded in the last uh one year uh what sort of return profile are these customers really making and especially you know in the 57:37 57 minutes, 37 seconds last 1 month what I've seen that despite market correcting like uh 10 15% plus the MTF unwinding for the industry was or for you guys also were like in the 57:46 57 minutes, 46 seconds range of 7 8%. So when you combine and triangulate this book aging chart uh with the market correction and the 57:54 57 minutes, 54 seconds unwinding which was pretty low uh how should one correlate uh these three parameters and in terms of that uh uh 58:01 58 minutes, 1 second NPF uh how much can this really grow from here on uh those are the questions thank you 58:09 58 minutes, 9 seconds the panin uh there are a couple of things uh one when you see uh the book unwinding it's not necessary that they square off the position Sometimes what 58:18 58 minutes, 18 seconds happens is that uh at the time of the opportunity clients may not have the full capital with them and they are expecting some inflows over a period of 58:26 58 minutes, 26 seconds time and therefore they uh kind of bring in their own capital and unpledge those stocks uh and retain those stocks in 58:34 58 minutes, 34 seconds their portfolio and and of course there is uh an opportunity for them to square off the positions based on their um 58:41 58 minutes, 41 seconds their belief of the growth that they had initially taken that bet on. So it's a it's a combination of that. Uh 58:49 58 minutes, 49 seconds unfortunately we don't share that number with uh anyone. That's something which is uh uh more for the clients and uh 58:57 58 minutes, 57 seconds yeah I mean I think uh from that perspective we've seen a healthy growth in the client funding book and we continue to have very very strong uh um 59:07 59 minutes, 7 seconds belief that this uh this part of the business along with the cash business will grow significantly over a period of time. 59:14 59 minutes, 14 seconds Correct. But any comments on the uh return profile? I mean collectively uh like on the FN side also the regulator gives us some color on the return 59:23 59 minutes, 23 seconds profile of the customer but on the MTS side uh there still isn't much visibility. 59:30 59 minutes, 30 seconds I think we don't uh share that specific data but since you uh I think talked about uh FNO also I think there is uh 59:40 59 minutes, 40 seconds you know when you when we disclose this data overall I think what you see is and and and we have a slide on this also in our investor presentation is that um you 59:48 59 minutes, 48 seconds know initially you might see the the cohort that joins us has slightly higher participation FNO and then slowly you see them going into cash and cash and 59:56 59 minutes, 56 seconds FNO so you see that you know becoming people getting introduced sometimes through FNO and then it uh going into other other products also when you see 1:00:05 1 hour, 5 seconds um you know the the out of the transacting clients the number of people who do just FNO is actually uh 1:00:13 1 hour, 13 seconds definitely less than 10% but as low as 5% in certain cohorts and as it matures it sort of goes down to that number so 1:00:20 1 hour, 20 seconds it's a small number of people who do FNO only trades a lot of them actually end up going to other segments and this sometime becomes a introduction to the 1:00:28 1 hour, 28 seconds markets for U thank you everyone for all the comprehensive answers and all the best. 1:00:37 1 hour, 37 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Abijit Sakar with Kotex Securities. Please go ahead. 1:00:44 1 hour, 44 seconds Hi uh good morning everyone. Uh thanks for the opportunity. My first question uh to Amish you know uh I think it's been a year uh with the firm now. So any 1:00:53 1 hour, 53 seconds broad observations on you know any parts of the business where you think there needs to be like a more structural change over the medium-term especially 1:01:01 1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second on the broking side of things. Um and secondly uh like a like a sub question to that uh would be that you know one 1:01:08 1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds part of the business uh but generally there's like lot of focus is you know how do we build scale uh you know by being more efficient especially on the 1:01:17 1 hour, 1 minute, 17 seconds acquisition side. So do you think that part of the business can potentially you can kind of uh tweak the business model in some ways over the medium term 1:01:27 1 hour, 1 minute, 27 seconds about both thanks for reminding me of the of the one year you know it does feel longer given how the you know year across the macro uh was I don't think 1:01:36 1 hour, 1 minute, 36 seconds there is any structural uh changes to be done we have a very good platform on which we we can scale like we've talked 1:01:44 1 hour, 1 minute, 44 seconds about uh there is of course uh you know across the board techn technology and AI that we are continuing to use in all parts of the business and that will 1:01:53 1 hour, 1 minute, 53 seconds evolve over time because our thinking itself uh you know you can't just say look we want to just have this process 1:02:00 1 hour, 2 minutes and then replace the same process with AI or technology I think in the new uh realm new era we have to think differently of saying look does a 1:02:09 1 hour, 2 minutes, 9 seconds process look different um or do we have to that do that process in the new uh era so you will see changes evolve 1:02:17 1 hour, 2 minutes, 17 seconds because of that. But there is no sort of specific one uh place where we would want to uh change anything. We are actually as you've seen in the last few 1:02:26 1 hour, 2 minutes, 26 seconds quarters, we're continuing to perform um very well as a team and and uh and also managing the macro headwinds uh quite 1:02:33 1 hour, 2 minutes, 33 seconds well. On the on the acquisition front, I think the whole funnel across the board is getting optimized continuously. So 1:02:42 1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds you have to start it from you know how you how are performance marketing organic different channels are working and then when when installs or leads 1:02:51 1 hour, 2 minutes, 51 seconds come in through that how do we take them through the journey of KYC and then how do we introduce them to different segments and how they're able we are 1:02:58 1 hour, 2 minutes, 58 seconds able to retain them. So we are looking at all aspects of it and that will continue to get fine-tuned over time. 1:03:04 1 hour, 3 minutes, 4 seconds When you look at it from month to month, there are girations based on what is happening in the market because people's sentiments change. So you will see some 1:03:12 1 hour, 3 minutes, 12 seconds of that fluctuate but overall it's moving in the right direction. 1:03:18 1 hour, 3 minutes, 18 seconds Got it. Thank you. Uh I have couple of data questions. One is that uh on your earlier comment around margin 1:03:25 1 hour, 3 minutes, 25 seconds improvement for FY27 now FY26 itself you know first half is very different from the second half so 1:03:34 1 hour, 3 minutes, 34 seconds should we take the second half as the more reasonable base which is like around 42 43% sort of a margin number as a as a base on which you want to build on for the next year. 1:03:44 1 hour, 3 minutes, 44 seconds For sure. For sure. Second half should be the uh should be the base that you look at. 1:03:49 1 hour, 3 minutes, 49 seconds Got it. And just one tiny question u is that uh uh let's say if you acquire 100 customers in a given year how many would 1:03:57 1 hour, 3 minutes, 57 seconds come from the AP channel that is about it varies between 20 to 25%. 1:04:08 1 hour, 4 minutes, 8 seconds And that channel itself specifically does not require any uh like a marketing spend or is that assumption wrong you can come in on that. 1:04:19 1 hour, 4 minutes, 19 seconds So the way we kind of uh uh approach that channel is uh one uh the leads or 1:04:26 1 hour, 4 minutes, 26 seconds the KYCs that are being generated by APS through their own network and then we also enable them through a host of 1:04:33 1 hour, 4 minutes, 33 seconds interventions uh which are centered around uh building digital capabilities for those APs uh building on ground 1:04:40 1 hour, 4 minutes, 40 seconds events uh where those APS generate a better visibility amongst the local crowds etc. So it's a combination of a lot of factors. 1:04:50 1 hour, 4 minutes, 50 seconds Okay, got it. Super helpful. Thank you so much. 1:04:56 1 hour, 4 minutes, 56 seconds Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Sharma with HDFC Securities Limited. Please go ahead. 1:05:02 1 hour, 5 minutes, 2 seconds Yeah. Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have a question on your MTF book. This book has done pretty well in FI20. Can you go a little louder? We can't hear you very well. 1:05:11 1 hour, 5 minutes, 11 seconds Can you hear me now? Loud and clear. Thank you. 1:05:15 1 hour, 5 minutes, 15 seconds Yeah. Yeah. So on MTF book we have done pretty well in FI26. So how should we think about it from here on and as the inflationary pressures persist we can 1:05:24 1 hour, 5 minutes, 24 seconds expect an rise in interest rates. So how should we think about our yields on this uh in this book and on the distribution 1:05:31 1 hour, 5 minutes, 31 seconds income if we look at it has grown pretty well as compared to last year. So what is actually driving this this piece of business and uh how should we think 1:05:39 1 hour, 5 minutes, 39 seconds about it going forward? And lastly a data keeping question uh tax rate for the year has been on a higher side. So any specific reason for that uh should we or should we stick to a lower rate? 1:05:50 1 hour, 5 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah, thank you. What was the last question? Tax rate. 1:05:56 1 hour, 5 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. Do you want to take the last question first? 1:05:59 1 hour, 5 minutes, 59 seconds Tax rate. So there are uh various factors uh you know the contribution of CSR also gets a deduction there. So there are multiple factors which drive 1:06:07 1 hour, 6 minutes, 7 seconds the uh tax rate including the uh including the you know the uh costs that we incur for the emerging businesses. So 1:06:16 1 hour, 6 minutes, 16 seconds these factors uh drive. So it's not a very u large difference but as other businesses scale up and start uh making 1:06:24 1 hour, 6 minutes, 24 seconds profit and uh the deductions uh reduce the tax rate will come to about 25 to 1:06:30 1 hour, 6 minutes, 30 seconds 26% uh of the PBT on on your uh on your MTF uh question. 1:06:36 1 hour, 6 minutes, 36 seconds We do I I I I agree with you that last year was very good in terms of how the book grew. uh we do think that it is 1:06:44 1 hour, 6 minutes, 44 seconds really I mean the headroom is very large in the Indian equities market and the cash market especially will deepen further so you will see more uh more 1:06:52 1 hour, 6 minutes, 52 seconds interest in in in MTF. So we we do see that growing uh you know monthtomonth you know especially when uh events like 1:07:01 1 hour, 7 minutes, 1 second March happen you would see um a dip there because people tend to exit their positions when there is that kind of uncertainty but long-term uh we do see a 1:07:09 1 hour, 7 minutes, 9 seconds very healthy growth in MTF. um interest rates are hard to predict. Uh so we wouldn't want to sort of venture into 1:07:16 1 hour, 7 minutes, 16 seconds into that uh territory right now. But for now we are very happy with what our pricing is on on that front. Terms of 1:07:23 1 hour, 7 minutes, 23 seconds distribution income I think the the key is uh the number of people that come on our platform. We have a very large base 1:07:32 1 hour, 7 minutes, 32 seconds and folks who are coming on our app then have other needs that that are satisfied through distribution of whether it's credit or insurance or other products. 1:07:42 1 hour, 7 minutes, 42 seconds Uh therefore that's that ends up being the top of the funnel from where people start looking at and so people get interested. It is also driven by how 1:07:50 1 hour, 7 minutes, 50 seconds well uh we are able to um offer in what journeys we are able to expose it in terms of discovery and what what we get 1:07:58 1 hour, 7 minutes, 58 seconds right in terms of our journeys and make it simpler for them to understand those products as well as avail those products. Um so that is a continuous effort that we keep doing and I think that's working well. 1:08:08 1 hour, 8 minutes, 8 seconds uh just a follow up on the distribution side. So what can be our penetration uh in terms of uh the large population 1:08:14 1 hour, 8 minutes, 14 seconds which we have so any number to that I think we've given some I'll I'll have 1:08:21 1 hour, 8 minutes, 21 seconds s take it I think just uh just a flavor on uh the number of customers who've taken credit 1:08:29 1 hour, 8 minutes, 29 seconds from us the uh over the last one year is uh say close to one lakh people and we 1:08:35 1 hour, 8 minutes, 35 seconds have uh 3.5 to 37 the road KYC's right uh on the broking 1:08:43 1 hour, 8 minutes, 43 seconds side. So I think hence the headroom for us for growth is immense. I think the the penetration on especially the credit piece is uh just starting 1:08:53 1 hour, 8 minutes, 53 seconds okay thank you and all the 1:08:55 1 hour, 8 minutes, 55 seconds [clears throat] 1:08:59 1 hour, 8 minutes, 59 seconds thank you. The last question comes from the line of Vishal Bai with Pandan AMC. Please go ahead. 1:09:07 1 hour, 9 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. Uh hi. So my question pertains to a hint on the credit book. Uh is there any change in the Do a bit louder please Vishal. Thanks. 1:09:16 1 hour, 9 minutes, 16 seconds Sure sure sorry. Uh is there any change in take rate and what are the kind of loans that we are doing here? 1:09:25 1 hour, 9 minutes, 25 seconds Uh there's yeah so there's largely no change in take rates but as we expand the book and as we get more lenders uh 1:09:33 1 hour, 9 minutes, 33 seconds uh and the distribution of loans across lenders change uh take rates can change. 1:09:39 1 hour, 9 minutes, 39 seconds Having said that our take rates are generally best in kind in the industry. 1:09:43 1 hour, 9 minutes, 43 seconds Uh so that's one. The second question around the kind of loans right now we are doing on the distribution side only personal loans. Uh and when we launch 1:09:53 1 hour, 9 minutes, 53 seconds our own NBFC, we'll be starting with loan against securities. 1:09:56 1 hour, 9 minutes, 56 seconds And uh what is the ticket average ticket size for the office loans that you do? 1:10:01 1 hour, 10 minutes, 1 second ATS we we generally don't disclose but we don't uh indulge into loans which are less than 50,000 rupees uh which are the 1:10:09 1 hour, 10 minutes, 9 seconds the small ticket loans which we which have seen a lot of risk in the market over the last say two two to three years. So we don't indulge in those loans. 1:10:17 1 hour, 10 minutes, 17 seconds And lastly, any FLG obligations on our part? No FLG. Okay. Thank you. 1:10:28 1 hour, 10 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. 1:10:37 1 hour, 10 minutes, 37 seconds Thank you. Thank you once again for joining us today. As always, it has been a pleasure engaging with you to discuss our results and progress. If you need 1:10:46 1 hour, 10 minutes, 46 seconds any further information, feel free to reach out to Hitul Gka, our head of investor relations, or to SGA, our 1:10:53 1 hour, 10 minutes, 53 seconds investor relation advisers. Have a wonderful day. Thank you. 1:10:59 1 hour, 10 minutes, 59 seconds Thank you. On behalf of Angel One Limited, that concludes this conference. 1:11:03 1 hour, 11 minutes, 3 seconds Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lanes.