Amara Raja Energy & Mobility Limited — Q4 FY26

Amara Raja Energy & Mobility Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIbOlYPP_Y Published: 3 weeks ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Amara Raja Energy and Mobility Limited Q4 FY26 earnings 0:08 8 seconds conference call hosted by Anandrai Shares and Stock Brokers Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be 0:16 16 seconds in the listenon mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this 0:24 24 seconds conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. 0:34 34 seconds I now hand the conference over to Mr. 0:36 36 seconds Mumok Mandlesa from Anandrati Shares and Stock Brokers Limited. Thank you and over to you sir. Yeah. Uh thanks Sager. 0:44 44 seconds On behalf of Anandati Shares and Stock Brokers, I welcome you all to the Q4 FY26 results conference call of Amaraja 0:54 54 seconds Energy and Mobility Limited. From the company, we have Mr. Harsha Vadana Gori Neni Executive Director Automotive and 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds Industrial, Mr. Vikram Aditya, Gori Ni, Executive Director, New Energy Business, 1:09 1 minute, 9 seconds and Mr. V. Delhi Babu, Chief Financial Officer. request team to give an opening remarks and then we can follow up with the Q&A session. Over to you sir. 1:20 1 minute, 20 seconds Thank you mumm. Uh thank you everyone for joining this call. Uh I will first give a brief on the Q4 performance and 1:28 1 minute, 28 seconds the numbers and later I would request the executive directors to give their uh opening remarks. 1:35 1 minute, 35 seconds Uh during Q4 of FI26 we have achieved a consolidated revenue of about 3,530 crores. That's a growth close to 15% 1:44 1 minute, 44 seconds over the previous year. Of this revenue about 92% came our uh from our lead acid battery business and rest is coming from 1:52 1 minute, 52 seconds the new energy business. The new energy business clocked a revenue of about 280 crores uh from the sale of battery packs and chargers. 2:02 2 minutes, 2 seconds The current quarter we have seen a robust growth from the in the lead acid battery business particularly driven by 2:09 2 minutes, 9 seconds uh the domestic automotive volumes. The four-wheeler OEM volumes have seen a sustained growth over and about 30% 2:16 2 minutes, 16 seconds during the current quarter. Uh the aftermarket volumes also considering the larger base have grown about five to 2:23 2 minutes, 23 seconds six% both in four-wheeler as well as two wheeler. 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds uh we have seen a very sustained demand momentum during the current quarter on our tubular batteries and the home UPS 2:34 2 minutes, 34 seconds systems. Uh the tubular battery volumes grew more than 35% during the current quarter with the onset of the season. 2:44 2 minutes, 44 seconds uh unlike previous year where our tubular batteries were completely traded this quarter more than 70 to 75% are 2:52 2 minutes, 52 seconds from our in-house manufacturing but still we are trading with about 20 to 25% uh from other manufacturers 3:00 3 minutes the lubes market lubes product also have shown uh reasonable growth in numbers and we have now reached a scale of about 3:08 3 minutes, 8 seconds 50 crores peranom as a sales revenue from this segment U during the current quarter with the 3:15 3 minutes, 15 seconds ongoing geopolitical issues we have seen a muted growth in the export volumes of automotive business uh and uh we hope uh 3:24 3 minutes, 24 seconds in the next coming quarters uh the momentum will revive the overall lead acid industrial volumes 3:32 3 minutes, 32 seconds other than the telecom segment have grown around 3%. While telecom has continuously seen the transition to 3:39 3 minutes, 39 seconds lithium and hence there is a reduction in the lead acid volumes of uh telecom while it is suitably compensated with 3:47 3 minutes, 47 seconds the lithium volumes and our overall market share within the telecom segment continues to remain robust around uh 50%. 3:56 3 minutes, 56 seconds The kind of uh volume growth that I have alluded to resulted in a overall revenue growth of 16%. But when I look at my 4:04 4 minutes, 4 seconds lead acid battery business, the growth is about 12% over the previous year. The revenue for the quarter from exports stood at about 11%. 4:14 4 minutes, 14 seconds And the new energy business as I mentioned earlier continued a strong performance uh which is almost like one and a half times more than the previous 4:22 4 minutes, 22 seconds year. In the current quarter we have almost supplied 300 megawatt hour of telecom packs uh to various telecom 4:30 4 minutes, 30 seconds players. And in this current quarter we have also infused about 100 crores further into Amaraja advanced cell technologies our new energy subsidiary. 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds With this the overall investment into this subsidiary is about 1,500 crores. 4:42 4 minutes, 42 seconds Uh we are expecting the customer qualification plant which is under commencing now commissioning now is expected to commence it full scale 4:50 4 minutes, 50 seconds operations in the coming months. And uh we are also setting up a battery energy storage facility which will cater to PNI and 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds grid applications. uh um and it is expected to start its production sometime during the Q4 of this fiscal 5:06 5 minutes, 6 seconds year itself and the first mega factory is also uh under construction. 5:13 5 minutes, 13 seconds As far as margins are concerned uh the current quarter has seen uh the overall ITA margin standing at about 11% on the 5:21 5 minutes, 21 seconds standalone basis but if I adjust for the trading revenue of lithium batteries then the lead acid battery business has generated an operating margin of 11.6%. 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds 6%. Uh if we consider the operating efficiency of our captive recycling plant and adjust the lithium pack 5:36 5 minutes, 36 seconds trading revenue then the AITA margin of lead acid battery business as a whole is actually at 12.3%. 5:44 5 minutes, 44 seconds At least acid battery business level uh we are able to sustain operating margins about 12% despite uh tremendous cost 5:53 5 minutes, 53 seconds pressures that we have seen both at the raw material level as well as some of the operating costs as well. uh raw material costs particularly in the 6:01 6 minutes, 1 second alloys and sulfuric acid have increased substantially during the quarter uh due to the ongoing geop geopolitical 6:08 6 minutes, 8 seconds conflict as well. Uh in addition we have also seen a higher OEM mix during the current quarter as both in four-wheeler and two wheeler we have seen a growth of 6:17 6 minutes, 17 seconds upwards of 30% in the volumes which is where uh there is an impact on the overall margins as well to mitigate some 6:24 6 minutes, 24 seconds of these raw material price increases we have taken some price increases in Q4 at about 5 to 6% in the domestic automotive 6:30 6 minutes, 30 seconds business uh in branches and uh now we'll be considering the way the rupee is uh depreciating uh and also the enhanced 6:39 6 minutes, 39 seconds cost of price and raw materials uh might uh uh force us to look at some more price increases in the coming periods. 6:48 6 minutes, 48 seconds So with that background of Q4 when I look at FI26 as a whole the consolidated revenue stood up uh 13,814 6:57 6 minutes, 57 seconds crores uh that's a growth of about 7 and a half% over the previous year uh [clears throat] supported by both the 7:04 7 minutes, 4 seconds lead acid battery business as well as the lithium pack business as well. 7:09 7 minutes, 9 seconds uh on a full year basis we posted a robust growth in the domestic volumes both in the automotive and home energy segment. Uh domestic volumes on a 7:18 7 minutes, 18 seconds automotive domestic volumes on a full year basis also has seen a volume growth of almost more than 20% and a similar percentage of growth was observed even 7:26 7 minutes, 26 seconds in the home energy side of it. However, the international volumes have marginally reduced over the previous year uh considering the overall 7:33 7 minutes, 33 seconds geopolitical development in Middle East as well as the tariff barriers that we have seen in the North American market. 7:39 7 minutes, 39 seconds uh still the total exports uh have contributed about 12% of the total revenue uh in the current uh financial 7:46 7 minutes, 46 seconds year [clears throat] and as far as ETM is concerned we have crossed a supply of close to a gawatt hour of packs to 7:52 7 minutes, 52 seconds telecom segments in FI26 and we continue to uh supply packs for two three-wheeler and two-heer applications 8:00 8 minutes the full year margins at the consolidated level stood at 10.8% 8%. 8:05 8 minutes, 5 seconds However, at lead acid battery level, our operating margin for the full year is at about 12.2%. Despite reduction of international volumes and continuous 8:14 8 minutes, 14 seconds increase in the input costs and other expenses like ECR, liabilities and warranty costs consolidate margin dilution is due to 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds additional expenses that we are incurring on our new business product development and ramping up some of the production facilities. 8:30 8 minutes, 30 seconds uh as far as the exceptional income that you have would have seen in the P&L is concerned that is predominantly coming on account of the insurance claim that we have fully received now for our 8:38 8 minutes, 38 seconds tubular battery fire accident by the onetime gratuitity cost that we had to take because of the 8:45 8 minutes, 45 seconds implementation of uh labor code. As far as capex is concerned, we have spent roughly about 600 crores in our uh lead 8:51 8 minutes, 51 seconds acid business both between the battery business as well as the recycling business and the rest of the money was spent on the new energy projects uh 8:59 8 minutes, 59 seconds including the research lab and then uh customer qualification plant and these numbers uh if I net off against uh the 9:07 9 minutes, 7 seconds insurance claim that I have received then the lead acid capex would be around 500 crores. 9:14 9 minutes, 14 seconds In the coming year uh we would be spending an amount in the range of 1,500 to,700 crores as capex about 400 crores 9:22 9 minutes, 22 seconds or so in the lead acid battery business and uh less rest of around 1100 to 1200 crores of capex in the new energy 9:30 9 minutes, 30 seconds business. This is a brief on the results. Now I'll uh request our executive director for automotive and 9:37 9 minutes, 37 seconds industry Mr. Harshini to give you his opening remarks. 9:42 9 minutes, 42 seconds Thank you, Debbie. And good evening to everyone on the call. Thank you for joining us. 9:50 9 minutes, 50 seconds This past year, FY26, definitely a business that has seen very headwind, but we're very happy that 9:57 9 minutes, 57 seconds we've been able to come out of it with good resilience. 10:01 10 minutes, 1 second As the automotive market such as aftermarket in India is showing signs of maturity and growing at amid high 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds singledigit growth, we're able to go beyond that market rate. 10:14 10 minutes, 14 seconds Our segments um in OEM mentioned that we're seeing significant growth. The same way with a renewed 10:23 10 minutes, 23 seconds focus uh on the home energy, we've been able to further penetrate segments that were admittedly um under represented in 10:32 10 minutes, 32 seconds the in the past. Our in-house design and development of power electronics has really given a boost to our home home energy solutions. 10:41 10 minutes, 41 seconds Along these lines, we continue to explore new ways to leverage our channel. We are also further investing 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds in our flagship brand Amaran to build visibility and offer brandled growth. 10:56 10 minutes, 56 seconds The international national markets due to tariffs geopolitical tensions uh shifting headwinds have definitely self-med. 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds That being said, we were able to keep all of our uh customer relationships intact. We continue to stay deep and 11:14 11 minutes, 14 seconds command significant market shares in the regions of uh Middle East, Southeast Asia, and Africa. 11:20 11 minutes, 20 seconds We've made penetrations into Europe and continue to have uh customer engagements in the US. 11:29 11 minutes, 29 seconds We will continue to grow and also look at operationalizing uh strategies for localization. uh this will be done to 11:37 11 minutes, 37 seconds make sure that the service and uh the sales and service support to customers continues to intact in u 11:45 11 minutes, 45 seconds expecting continuity of clients such as these on the industrial side we have robust growth in the UPS segment which also 11:53 11 minutes, 53 seconds bolstered by the data center growth here in India it's also an export market for us that we uh continue to build on we're also 12:02 12 minutes, 2 seconds leveraging these uh same relationships in the commercial industrial space to be releasing our own best solutions to these customers. 12:11 12 minutes, 11 seconds Uh continuing to build on the trust that we've had with these customers for the last several decades. 12:18 12 minutes, 18 seconds The uh our approach to all industries has been 12:26 12 minutes, 26 seconds to make sure that we provide the right solution to the to all of our customers for the right performance making us 12:33 12 minutes, 33 seconds truly multi-chemistry technology agnostic and a leader in low voltage uh solutions. So being a low 12:40 12 minutes, 40 seconds voltage solution provider, we're keeping uh all upcoming chemistries in mind when it comes to low voltage and automotive 12:48 12 minutes, 48 seconds whether it's for FLI application um mild or strong hybrid auxiliary batteries. So these are all uh 12:57 12 minutes, 57 seconds all these technologies are being released for the requirements of the customer. Of course, this is leveraging these the strong OE relationships we 13:06 13 minutes, 6 seconds have and it's very evident in the growth we're getting in OE. 13:11 13 minutes, 11 seconds We're able to cater to these increasing volumes by unlocking uh significant groups in our existing manufacturing 13:20 13 minutes, 20 seconds locations within the same footprint by leveraging digital capabilities by bringing in uh best-in-class 13:29 13 minutes, 29 seconds efficiencies. And we will continue to do this to reach our uh growth plans in the years to come. 13:36 13 minutes, 36 seconds And I'm also happy to share that our plants are located in uh distressed 13:43 13 minutes, 43 seconds water situation areas, we've been uh assured 12 times water positive in these locations and continue to work very steadfast in our sustainability goals. 13:56 13 minutes, 56 seconds We're also zero waste landfill which is also a significant achievement this year and these efforts will be taking forward 14:03 14 minutes, 3 seconds similarly to the reductions we've done in our energy uh expenditure and 14:09 14 minutes, 9 seconds increasing renewable energy share and going forward we'll see continue to see growth uh in our international 14:17 14 minutes, 17 seconds markets across all business lines. We'll continue to unlock capacity and value from our existing investments 14:24 14 minutes, 24 seconds and we will be able to take advantage of all market conditions and technology adoptions because we will be the number one low voltage uh solution supplier in India. 14:35 14 minutes, 35 seconds Thank you. 14:37 14 minutes, 37 seconds Thanks Sasha. I request Vikram to share his opening the masterpiece. 14:48 14 minutes, 48 seconds So uh good afternoon everybody. Thanks for joining the call. I think the last uh several years we've been sharing information about our new energy 14:56 14 minutes, 56 seconds initiative which is centered around the giga corridor infrastructure that we've been building out. I'm happy to share that we have substantial uh updates for 15:04 15 minutes, 4 seconds you. Uh while we signed the MOU with the government of Telangana 3 years ago, up till now we've been largely operating 15:11 15 minutes, 11 seconds pack assembly facilities. This is spread between where we do largely the stationary production for telecom packs 15:19 15 minutes, 19 seconds as well as where we are largely focused on light electric mobility up till now. 15:25 15 minutes, 25 seconds A couple of important milestones came up this year where we've crossed cumulative installation of 1 gawatt hour in stationary applications largely driven 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds by our market share in telecom. We continue our market leadership in this segment through the technology transition and the first exports of 15:40 15 minutes, 40 seconds lithium systems in this segment has also taken place. We continue to maintain our strong position in the light electric mobility space with two wheelers, three 15:48 15 minutes, 48 seconds wheelers, LCVs, expanding our reach with both packs and chargers. We are in touch with several passenger vehicle OEMs to 15:56 15 minutes, 56 seconds support their launches. As these programs generally have much longer lead times, we're unable to announce anything at this time. The progress is promising. 16:06 16 minutes, 6 seconds A major change in our strategy is the fact is uh the introduction of ESS as a larger part of our mix. Earlier we 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds largely focused on EV and we expected that the larger part of the even the short-term growth to come in EV. While 16:21 16 minutes, 21 seconds EV momentum remains steady and in the long term we do still believe it'll play it'll present a larger opportunity. The 16:29 16 minutes, 29 seconds fact is ESS has accelerated and this can be evidenced by rapid movement in us in the space especially driven by the 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds renewable drive in India in uh as a result we've uh launched an accelerated project to construct an 16:43 16 minutes, 43 seconds integration facility ESS integration facility in Bali we're aiming to start production at the end of this calendar year with an initial capacity of 5 16:52 16 minutes, 52 seconds gawatt hours in a facility with the ultimate capacity of 10 gawatt hours coming to progress on cell manufure 16:59 16 minutes, 59 seconds mfacturing. There are three facilities that we've been communicating with all of you for the past few years. E positive energy labs, our R&D center is undergoing the final conditioning phase. 17:09 17 minutes, 9 seconds Our teams are starting to move into the facility over the next month in a phased manner. Earlier we were doing our R&D activities in a scattered manner in a 17:18 17 minutes, 18 seconds fairly limited manner limited by the type of facility and equipment that we have. With the consolidation of our teams and substantially upgraded 17:25 17 minutes, 25 seconds equipment, we expect our R&D backlog to accelerate greatly from here. While cooperation continues to be of interest and we continue to pursue partnership 17:34 17 minutes, 34 seconds where available to cut short our time in the market, I can confidently say that in regards to technology, our efforts are mostly self-driven. 17:43 17 minutes, 43 seconds And with the commencement of this lab and the facilities, I'm I believe that we'll be able to accelerate several 17:51 17 minutes, 51 seconds programs from here. The customer qualification plant, as Debbie mentioned, is in the final phase of commissioning. We're running the final 17:58 17 minutes, 58 seconds trials to stabilize all processes and optimistic that uh our ability to start delivering commercial samples is 18:06 18 minutes, 6 seconds going to start to our customers in the next couple of months. While we were manufacturing small batches of cells over the past few years at our facility 18:14 18 minutes, 14 seconds in Tripati, this year marks the first year that we're actually making cell manufacturing at a reasonable scale in India at Amaraja. And this is being done 18:23 18 minutes, 23 seconds not only at a larger scale but also mimicking mass manufacturing processes. 18:28 18 minutes, 28 seconds The first 2 gawatt hour line Giga 1 is still on progress uh is uh in line to start production in June of 2027. 18:37 18 minutes, 37 seconds This will not be the first gigaf factory in India. But since we consciously chose to build out our R&D and pilot production first, we're a little bit 18:45 18 minutes, 45 seconds delayed compared to some of the other players. But our experience in commissioning the CTC has been invaluable and I expect that the 18:52 18 minutes, 52 seconds learnings from the CTP are going to help to smooth out the learning curve at Giga1 and future mass manufacturing facilities. 19:01 19 minutes, 1 second Back to Delhi. 19:05 19 minutes, 5 seconds Thank you, Vicram. Uh we can now open for uh Q&A. 19:11 19 minutes, 11 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press 19:18 19 minutes, 18 seconds star and then one on their touchstone phone. 19:22 19 minutes, 22 seconds If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. 19:28 19 minutes, 28 seconds Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. 19:33 19 minutes, 33 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, to register for a question, please press star and one. 19:46 19 minutes, 46 seconds Your first question comes from the line of Viper Zukshi with JP Morgan. Please go ahead. 19:54 19 minutes, 54 seconds Yes. Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on the good revenue growth in challenging times. The first question is on the new energy business. 20:03 20 minutes, 3 seconds Now for this about our sell line which will get commissioned next year. Just wanted to understand where are we in 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds terms of equipment procurement uh and other stuff. Uh is the equipment already ordered or are we going to do it now in 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds SI27? And the reason to ask is is because one or two large players who are trying to get into cell manufacturing 20:25 20 minutes, 25 seconds have been facing challenges in you know getting a partner or uh or an equipment procurement. So just wanted to understand their in that process. Thank you. 20:38 20 minutes, 38 seconds Sure. Uh this is Vikram here. Thanks for the question. I want to uh share that the equipment has been ordered. Uh the 20:46 20 minutes, 46 seconds bigger challenge that we've been facing is uh not so much that we don't have access to equipment but we have a little bit of limitations in terms of getting 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds the engineers from China to come and help to actually commission the equipment. This being our first time we have less experience we depend a little 21:01 21 minutes, 1 second bit more on the equipment vendor. Um while still the numbers of visas being issued is less than we would like. I think our experience at CPP has been 21:10 21 minutes, 10 seconds that we have been able to issue a couple of visas. There are engineers on ground here for the past couple of months helping us to commission. The initial 21:18 21 minutes, 18 seconds kind of base uh part of technology was largely acquired through technology uh you know cooperations but our own teams 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds have been able to take uh quite a bit of hold on this program. This is the cylindrical 2170 program as we've shared in the past and we're quite confident in 21:34 21 minutes, 34 seconds our team's ability to handle this technology smoothly and uh the ability for the ship vendors also to support us. 21:42 21 minutes, 42 seconds Okay, got it. That that's really helpful. Now second question is on you know the go partnership that we had announced almost couple of years back 21:50 21 minutes, 50 seconds and you know the LSD plant which is which is supposed to come you know potentially in 2029. I just wanted to understand how is that partnership 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds progressing you know what are the next steps here in terms of you know technology licensing potential conversation with with customers because 22:07 22 minutes, 7 seconds you know we've not heard much about go so yeah I just wanted to get some thoughts 22:14 22 minutes, 14 seconds yeah so I think we made a large announcement about uh you know licensing technology from goian uh just about two 22:21 22 minutes, 21 seconds years back uh since that time I think uh all of you would have also been seeing in the news that the sharing of technology, licensing technology is 22:29 22 minutes, 29 seconds something that's been largely uh you know discouraged by the Chinese government. This is hitting all players and their technical tryups pretty 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds equally at the moment. Uh we also have our own challenges in terms of working uh directly in these sort of technology 22:45 22 minutes, 45 seconds licensing or any sort of direct tie-ups with Chinese. That's where I think uh what I said earlier is important that 22:53 22 minutes, 53 seconds whatever cooperation we had earlier we able to take what we can but largely going forward whether it's MNC LFP future chemistries the efforts of the 23:02 23 minutes, 2 seconds product development is largely driven by teams in India got it and the last question if I can 23:10 23 minutes, 10 seconds squeeze in just on this best plant uh I think 5 G that you mentioned any sense on how the margins are going to be you know once it's fully stabilized. Thank you. 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds See uh the best best plan initially is going to be developing the containerized solutions both at the grid level as well 23:31 23 minutes, 31 seconds as at the uh CNI level. So it might mimic a bit better than what current packed business is doing. The operating 23:39 23 minutes, 39 seconds margins should be around uh let's say 6 to 7% to start with. uh but we feel uh as opportunity progresses while we are 23:48 23 minutes, 48 seconds starting with the 5 Gawatt initial capacity I'm sure it can be expanded further and as the scale improves I feel 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds there is an upside possible on these margins but more than that this will act as a strategic liver for us to look at 24:02 24 minutes, 2 seconds what kind of cells to manufacture when it comes to uh energy storage request Vikram to add any other strategic 24:10 24 minutes, 10 seconds perspective on this Yeah, I think uh in addition to the what what Demi mentioned in addition to the 24:18 24 minutes, 18 seconds container uh integration pack assembly uh we do have plans to get into cell uh cells for ESS. This is something that uh 24:26 24 minutes, 26 seconds we've been actively working on. While the overall target of 16 to 20 gawatt hour remains unchanged. I think the mix 24:33 24 minutes, 33 seconds in the short term is definitely leaning leaning more towards stationary storage. 24:37 24 minutes, 37 seconds This is a technology that's well established. Our teams are confident that with access to you know supply chains and equipment in China we don't 24:46 24 minutes, 46 seconds need an external partner to support us to develop this cell and uh we've been undertaking this effort and this is going to be another capacity that we'll be adding over the next two years. 24:58 24 minutes, 58 seconds Got it. Thank you so much. All the best. 25:02 25 minutes, 2 seconds Thank you. Your next question comes from Ragunan NL with Noama Research. Please go ahead. 25:11 25 minutes, 11 seconds Uh good evening sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Uh for uh the lead acid battery business. Uh uh you 25:20 25 minutes, 20 seconds mentioned about the growth for uh few of the categories. Uh can you can you also share uh how much was the growth for 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds two-wheeler OEM, UPS, telecom and four-wheeler export segments in Q4 and 25:37 25 minutes, 37 seconds also if you can share your thoughts on outlook for FI27 in uh replacement and 25:44 25 minutes, 44 seconds industrial segments that will be helpful. 25:49 25 minutes, 49 seconds Uh yeah Ragu as I mentioned both the OEMs both in the four-wheeler as two-wheeler have grown more than 30% 25:56 25 minutes, 56 seconds during the current quarter. Uh and uh after market was growing somewhere around 5 to 6% during the current 26:03 26 minutes, 3 seconds quarter being both four-wheeler and two wheeler given 1% here and there. Telecom obviously there is a degrowth and as I 26:12 26 minutes, 12 seconds mentioned earlier all other uh segments are growing at about 3 to 4% kind of a number as far as uh the industrial uh 26:20 26 minutes, 20 seconds numbers are concerned and uh I've also mentioned about uh the growth rates of tubular batteries being more than uh 26:27 26 minutes, 27 seconds 30%. Now as far as how the industry looking like for the next year uh Harsha has alluded in his opening remarks that 26:36 26 minutes, 36 seconds it could be in the mid to high high single digits. I'll let Harsha to add a couple of points on how the growth 26:44 26 minutes, 44 seconds trajectory could be for the uh coming periods. 26:48 26 minutes, 48 seconds Yeah, along those lines, we'll continue to see that uh to high single digit growth, which is one of course growing a 26:55 26 minutes, 55 seconds bit better than the market also further segmenting ourselves. For example, this uh our renewed focus on home home energy 27:05 27 minutes, 5 seconds will sustain. We're looking to of course develop new products and put them into market. 27:10 27 minutes, 10 seconds We have the uh we're cast casting our net quite a bit wider in terms of international which will help us u 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds become more resilient in these geopolitically tense times. 27:24 27 minutes, 24 seconds Beyond that um the uh the market as we as it moves uh further and further into 27:31 27 minutes, 31 seconds this mature stage we'll be focusing more on uh also quality of business the new types of solutions to balance both 27:39 27 minutes, 39 seconds revenue and profitable growth. On the industrial side, uh I had mentioned earlier that we'll be leveraging uh our 27:46 27 minutes, 46 seconds relationships with the customers in the commercial industrial space to be pushing energy storage forward solutions. with this we'll continue to 27:55 27 minutes, 55 seconds grow at is it uh no high single digit growth and I think that's uh about what we can 28:03 28 minutes, 3 seconds advise on FYI 27 thank you sir very helpful uh my second 28:10 28 minutes, 10 seconds question uh was uh you referred to the uh raw material input cost inflation uh 28:18 28 minutes, 18 seconds if you can broadly indicate uh uh within the raw material how would be the mix 28:24 28 minutes, 24 seconds between uh uh uh lead uh plastic sulfur some of the major commodities which we 28:31 28 minutes, 31 seconds have to keep in mind uh let lead could be about 65 70% of your RM basket how much will be others and uh how much is 28:41 28 minutes, 41 seconds the current under recovery and uh how much price hike should we expect going forward 28:49 28 minutes, 49 seconds uh so as you know Rau about 70% of material between lead and alloys and naturally alloys like tin, antimony, all these are showing increasing trends. 29:00 29 minutes While we are seeing some softening on some of the alloys but there are still price increase particularly the dollar 29:08 29 minutes, 8 seconds depreciation is also hurting us. Uh while the quantification is again dependent on a daily basis because how 29:15 29 minutes, 15 seconds the volatile we are seeing in the forex markets. uh then on the other materials plastics account for almost 10% of our 29:22 29 minutes, 22 seconds raw material cost. Uh there again we are seeing almost 40% kind of a price increase is possible 29:29 29 minutes, 29 seconds if this kind of a increasing momentum will continue. Sulfur is definitely causing the asset prices to grow up and 29:37 29 minutes, 37 seconds with the fuel prices growing up and obviously the freight costs both inbound as well as outbound freight costs will also increase. uh considering various uh 29:46 29 minutes, 46 seconds cost pressures that we are seeing as I mentioned last quarter we did some price increase towards the second end of the quarter and I mean we may have to look 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds at uh some price increases uh while we have not taken anything in this current quarter running quarter so far we may have to look at it but that will also 30:03 30 minutes, 3 seconds depend on how our uh competition moves are uh while I'll not be able to give you a very quantified number around this 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds considering they being an evolving scenario at this point of time in my view at least another 2 to 3% kind 30:19 30 minutes, 19 seconds of a price increase is something that we should look for and if this kind of a momentum continues even that may not be 30:26 30 minutes, 26 seconds sufficient to recover the entire uh uh cost pressure that we are having currently this picture will I think will get better in the next one month and then 30:35 30 minutes, 35 seconds we'll have a clear understanding as to how much should be the uh cost pressure that we'll face uh well noted here that is very helpful. 30:46 30 minutes, 46 seconds Uh just lastly uh you mentioned about the benefits of uh capital recycling. Uh if you can indicate how much was the 30:55 30 minutes, 55 seconds benefit taken in the quarter and how much more benefits can we expect going forward. 31:03 31 minutes, 3 seconds Yeah. Last quarter we have seen about 0.5% benefit coming from the recycling plant because predominantly it was a refining operation that we are currently 31:12 31 minutes, 12 seconds operating in. Uh we are expecting our battery breaking operation to stabilize in the coming quarter. Uh so once that 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds is done then maybe and also currently uh if you look at the current RML prices that is the remelted lead prices in India also have gone up substantially. 31:30 31 minutes, 30 seconds So that is definitely creating a cost pressure again on the uh remlter side as well. Uh so we need to see how these 31:37 31 minutes, 37 seconds input costs prices will play out in the coming quarters and that should actually uh give us a better understanding as to how it moves. But from an operations 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds point of view, yes uh uh there is a 5% accretion because of uh uh the recycling operation. We hope that will sustain in 31:54 31 minutes, 54 seconds the coming quarters. for the increased RML prices that we are experiencing today. 32:01 32 minutes, 1 second Noted sir, very helpful. Thank you so much. 32:06 32 minutes, 6 seconds Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Ganesh with Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. 32:14 32 minutes, 14 seconds Uh thank you very much uh for taking my question. Um the first question I have is on the new energy business. Actually both on the new energy business. Um we 32:23 32 minutes, 23 seconds have about 200 two two gawatt hours uh coming in and uh with an eventual plan to scale it up to 16 gawatt hours. Um 32:31 32 minutes, 31 seconds and when I look at what the industry says there are announcements if I tally up to about 290 gawatt hours versus a demand of what might be half of that. So 32:39 32 minutes, 39 seconds what I'm trying to understand is who is the incremental buyer when we scale up from 2 to 16 gawatt hours and is there any binding offtake that we have on this 32:48 32 minutes, 48 seconds capacity that we're putting up. what's the visibility we have? 32:54 32 minutes, 54 seconds So, uh I just want to uh I'll take this question again. Um on the 2 GT hour also 33:01 33 minutes, 1 second I just I think uh we hear about like large optic deals abroad especially Europe and US I think uh we generally 33:10 33 minutes, 10 seconds don't see that as much in India especially with more standard type of cells. So the 2170 capacity we're 33:17 33 minutes, 17 seconds building out is uh is very much based on our own market assessment and uh the fact the belief that this is a cell that will continue to remain highly relevant 33:25 33 minutes, 25 seconds for the two segment in India. So when we looked at all of the the voice of customer received from the various customers there are other cells that are 33:34 33 minutes, 34 seconds slowly entering their mix but we believe 2170 continues to be a highly relevant cell when we build up to about 16 gatt 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds hour. I think it's not uh we don't we haven't mapped exactly how we want to do this. Earlier it was largely based on 33:48 33 minutes, 48 seconds EV. I think if it comes to EV programs with OEMs well it's not a firm offtake. 33:54 33 minutes, 54 seconds We do build in a little bit of safeguards something more akin to kind of a take or pay kind of agreement where we at least to some extent protect our 34:02 34 minutes, 2 seconds downside. when we're going a little bit more in an accelerated manner towards ESS I would say that you know we have to 34:09 34 minutes, 9 seconds see our own ESS system as the optaker in this case so when we're building the 5 G ESS plant any up to that uh capacity 34:18 34 minutes, 18 seconds whatever we're making in ESS cell we are the end user as such so I think we have we have more belief that our ability to 34:25 34 minutes, 25 seconds sell the systems so some sort of mix between four-wheeler OEMs and our own ESS uh capacity is how overage the 16th hour. 34:36 34 minutes, 36 seconds Thank you. That's very helpful. And as a followup, if may I ask um I've seen some of the local in the local energy storage 34:44 34 minutes, 44 seconds system ecosystem. Um I rarely see any cells that are being manufactured domestically now. So what I was trying to understand is when you scale up, what 34:53 34 minutes, 53 seconds do you expect would be your cell cost per kilowatt hour versus what's in the market for imported cells today? And in 35:00 35 minutes the grand 9,500 cr capital capage that uh you've planned, what's the ROC you've underwritten? And I'm asking this question because most buyers seem to be 35:09 35 minutes, 9 seconds optimizing heavily for cost. So what I want to understand is um how we are going to be able to convince these 35:15 35 minutes, 15 seconds customers uh to buy uh our output in simple terms and what that would mean for our financials and margins. 35:24 35 minutes, 24 seconds Sure. So I think uh you're very correct. 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds We do live in a highly uh cost sensitive market and that's where we're trying to operate. The uh there's a couple of different bets that we're taking. I 35:36 35 minutes, 36 seconds think uh a we're not going to be cost competitive with uh a product that's imported from China. I think the best of our ability whatever we're able to 35:44 35 minutes, 44 seconds bridge. I think it's like a China plus $15 to $20 is the minimum that uh we can bridge immediately because we don't have 35:51 35 minutes, 51 seconds local material and a couple of other things that uh is advantageous to China in terms of scale but we are betting and this is indications coming from the 36:00 36 minutes government it's also that just a similar manner how they've done with solar equipment a couple of other areas that localization may start getting mandated 36:09 36 minutes, 9 seconds in phases in the energy storage especially at the utility scale where the government is directly the buyer So I think that will definitely help us 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds a bit to kind of bridge some gaps. In addition to that I think uh slowly we're we're seeing to see how many of these uh 36:24 36 minutes, 24 seconds upstream vendors can get uh localized in India today. I wouldn't say that we're off to a great start. So bridging that gap over the next five or so years is something we're aiming to do. 36:38 36 minutes, 38 seconds And Delhi if you want to talk at all about the numbers and the returns. 36:42 36 minutes, 42 seconds Yeah. So from a pure return point of view as Vikram was explaining today if I compare the import price as it is 36:50 36 minutes, 50 seconds naturally at our scale we will not be we will have a cost disadvantage which is what we believe will get bridged over a 36:57 36 minutes, 57 seconds period of time as we improve the scale and also some protection from the government coming in. uh but if we can 37:04 37 minutes, 4 seconds uh look at uh that kind of cost disadvantage getting factored if we can achieve a scale of about 8 to 10 gawatt 37:12 37 minutes, 12 seconds hour work uh we see that there is a possibility of an IITA margin in the range of 10 to 11%. and uh with the 37:19 37 minutes, 19 seconds capex cost also coming in because when we started the journey we looked at somewhere around $55 to $60 million per 37:26 37 minutes, 26 seconds gawatt hour of capex which today I'm sure has come down almost by 20 to 25% already uh so with that uh when we 37:34 37 minutes, 34 seconds achieve a scale of 8 to 10 gawatt hour I think our ROC numbers will be better it would be difficult for me to put a 37:41 37 minutes, 41 seconds number immediately but based on our business case whatever we have worked out it is going to be a those low 37:48 37 minutes, 48 seconds double-digit number. Uh but if capex reduction trajectory were to continue for some more time like this, I think we 37:54 37 minutes, 54 seconds can uh better that number provided we are able to ramp up the plants in the right time with the minimal process loss 38:02 38 minutes, 2 seconds and are also able to gain some pricing advantage over the procurement and we reach that kind of scale. So there are 38:09 38 minutes, 9 seconds still some moving parts uh but the opportunity size is bigger and I'm sure we will uh uh cost advantages and uh 38:19 38 minutes, 19 seconds value creation over a period of time which should give us uh a bigger opportunity to pursue and improve the overall returns. 38:28 38 minutes, 28 seconds Uh thank you sir if if I may just ask one follow up on this. Um and just from the buyer point of view what I'm seeing 38:35 38 minutes, 35 seconds in solar for example is in June there'll be a deadline that says you have to buy sales manufactured domestically which pushes up costs for the customer by 38:44 38 minutes, 44 seconds about 30%. Now given how nent's EVs are uh for us maybe on the four-wheeler side especially and even in best adoption if 38:53 38 minutes, 53 seconds we do implement some kind of policy measure uh that might increase uh the solutions cost in itself uh could that 39:00 39 minutes possibly slow down adoption and have a counterbalancing effect I think it's possible right but uh if we 39:10 39 minutes, 10 seconds look at uh this uh the notification you mentioned this is actually phase two of the LM right so already after phase one 39:16 39 minutes, 16 seconds costs have increased but uh you know has it hasn't really slowed down the Indian renewable trajectory. I think these are 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds uh when the entire industry eats the cost uniformly the costs are the you know the increase in cost is baked in 39:32 39 minutes, 32 seconds and the industry moves accordingly. So I do believe you know there's some risk that maybe EV or renewables can slow 39:39 39 minutes, 39 seconds down you know moderately but at the end of the day when this is being uniformly felt by the entire industry I I I don't 39:46 39 minutes, 46 seconds think that this is going to be enough to completely destabilize the growth. Wonderful. Thank you very much. 39:58 39 minutes, 58 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Kapil Singh with Namura. Please go ahead. 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds Yeah, good evening sir. Sir my question was just uh on your margin expectations you know historically we've mentioned 13 40:13 40 minutes, 13 seconds to 14% margins u in the current context uh how do you look at the margins uh as 40:21 40 minutes, 21 seconds we move along um because you know that there is inflation as well which is there so I'm not talking of short-term 40:27 40 minutes, 27 seconds but uh just your uh more uh two to three year kind of outlook on margins uh related to that also wanted to 40:35 40 minutes, 35 seconds understand when we look at slightly longerterm picture you know more over the next 10 years uh is there a case 40:43 40 minutes, 43 seconds here that uh our lead acid facilities become underutilized uh as the EV penetration rises uh and we 40:52 40 minutes, 52 seconds are seeing that happening in India as well as globally also uh so both you know for your facilities 41:00 41 minutes as well as for your network uh if you have any thoughts on how uh how to handle this transition 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds Yeah, I'll just comment on the margin side of it and then I'll let Harsha talk about the long-term horizon what's in 41:15 41 minutes, 15 seconds store for let us say while see as far as margins are concerned clearly at this elevated levels of uh 41:23 41 minutes, 23 seconds 210 220,000 kind of a number on the lead uh we are we definitely have that denominator impact but as I mentioned in 41:32 41 minutes, 32 seconds the earlier calls also that we would we are still hopeful to reach a 13 to 14% kind of an AITA margin even 41:40 41 minutes, 40 seconds at a two lakh kind of a lead day predominantly on account of the initiatives that were 41:47 41 minutes, 47 seconds alluded to earlier because even today from the existing plants we are able to realize more throughput. So that should give me u 41:56 41 minutes, 56 seconds leverage on the fixed cost side and also many of these uh uh inflation effects will get passed on to the customer 42:03 42 minutes, 3 seconds though with a lag. So I feel still uh 13% margin trajectory is something that is still on the horizon but obviously in 42:12 42 minutes, 12 seconds the current times of high volatility around every aspect that we touch it's difficult for me to say what's the time horizon within which that I can reach 42:21 42 minutes, 21 seconds there but as I mentioned earlier clearly uh that is the kind of margin targets that we are working internally to reach there while we have to make certain 42:30 42 minutes, 30 seconds strategic investments into some of these initiatives in terms of expanding markets and also improving throughput etc. Barring that I think on a 42:37 42 minutes, 37 seconds standalone basis we should still aim for that kind of a margin. Uh as far as the long-term lead acid battery business 42:45 42 minutes, 45 seconds I'll let Harsha to add his comments on how we see this uh going forward to elaborate. 42:52 42 minutes, 52 seconds I think uh first we do see a long run long run long run long way acid battery product but we're not 43:00 43 minutes linking anything to a because we're quite flexible in our approach. Uh we continue to unlock capacity uh within 43:08 43 minutes, 8 seconds the same footprint between the uh same four walls and meeting our growth ambitions. We'll continue to do this. Um 43:16 43 minutes, 16 seconds we'll also see a future where multiple plat vehicle platforms and technologies will coexist. For example, uh we're sitting at a time where we're seeing, 43:25 43 minutes, 25 seconds you know, tremendous growth in OV and we know that this is largely coming from ICE platforms. We're seeing uh different levels of hybridization. Of course, 43:34 43 minutes, 34 seconds factory vehicles are also growing now from a small base to growing aggressively. We'll have solutions across uh all these segments and 43:43 43 minutes, 43 seconds categories. We're building capabilities um of course on the new energy side to address this. We're building capabilities on the application side to 43:51 43 minutes, 51 seconds address this. We're building um we're being careful in how we're calibrating and investing our capex uh or not 43:58 43 minutes, 58 seconds investing in this case uh to a significant degree. Um beyond that we'll continue to select and leverage our 44:06 44 minutes, 6 seconds strategic assets whether it's brand uh channel already spoke on capacities and technologies. This will allow us to 44:14 44 minutes, 14 seconds maintain our growth rate. This allows us to stay uh close to the customers and delight them and ultimately in uncertain 44:22 44 minutes, 22 seconds times what's certain is our ability to adapt to them and have the right capabilities in place. 44:30 44 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah. on the uh plant redundancy point that you raised actually I mean if you look at it uh even today though telecom 44:38 44 minutes, 38 seconds demand is coming down still that plant is operating at about 30 40 million kind of a capacity and we don't foresee an 44:46 44 minutes, 46 seconds immediate problem with respect to our tubular batteries as hasha mentioned the home application might offer more uh 44:55 44 minutes, 55 seconds runway for with the solar systems etc coming in the tubular batteries will continue to be on demand this year we have seen a very strong demand around 45:03 45 minutes, 3 seconds it. Uh so that way on four-wheeler and two wheeler side even if the incremental growth in EVs are stronger eventually 45:10 45 minutes, 10 seconds the IC engine vehicles are not going to uh get removed entirely. So naturally there will be a space for lead acid batteries to operate and you know even 45:19 45 minutes, 19 seconds there is an auxiliary batteries like Dasha mentioned earlier auxiliary batteries is also a product area that will continue to have the match. So we 45:26 45 minutes, 26 seconds are not too much better at this point of time about the I think one feature we can keep in mind 45:33 45 minutes, 33 seconds is uh if we ever approach a peak production of ice uh vehicle which we haven't we have to remember that there's 45:42 45 minutes, 42 seconds a tapering and there's a huge car park available uh for replacement and I don't think uh it's clear we haven't proposed 45:49 45 minutes, 49 seconds that stage yet so I think there's a growth ahead of us uh we're challenging balance those challenges and opportunities. 46:00 46 minutes Yeah, if I can just add something also I think Hasha and Delhi's points I completely agree with. Uh you know Hasha mentioned the growth of ICE even today 46:09 46 minutes, 9 seconds the OE growth is there in India. I think if you look at the fact that with recent conflicts especially with what the PM 46:17 46 minutes, 17 seconds has said we need to reduce imports reduce fuel imports at the same time we can't necessarily leap frog into EV the 46:25 46 minutes, 25 seconds way that comes the think tanks are expecting us to because we can't replace the import of oil with import of other 46:32 46 minutes, 32 seconds raw materials. So I think at a time where we're trying to get the ecosystem built out and the first cell manufacturing plants are just getting off the ground in India. It's uh we 46:41 46 minutes, 41 seconds don't have upstream material in lithium that's yet localized in India. That also takes more time. So I think we believe at Amaraja that this is the time where 46:49 46 minutes, 49 seconds hybrids have to be accelerated in India and uh we have the right solutions for both all levels of hybridization in 46:56 46 minutes, 56 seconds vehicles. But the thought that we can completely withdraw from ICE to E is not something that's making so much sense to 47:05 47 minutes, 5 seconds India right now. Hybrid definitely is required. 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds Uh thank you sir. Uh second question was on u the best business. what is kind of 47:17 47 minutes, 17 seconds uh you think core competence or key success factors that uh we should expect in this business because there are many 47:26 47 minutes, 26 seconds players who have been announcing that they will get into best. So you know how should we uh sort of try to assess the 47:34 47 minutes, 34 seconds competitive landscape and how are you looking at it? 47:39 47 minutes, 39 seconds Well, I think like you said, uh the announcements are many, but especially as you get into the utility scale solutions, best uh you know, a single 5 47:48 47 minutes, 48 seconds megatt hour container is almost a quarter million dollar of equipment. So, I think this is not something that is going to be easily catered to without the right quality manufacturing 47:57 47 minutes, 57 seconds processes and uh rigorous uh you know, it's not something that can be done by just uh you know, any smaller player. uh 48:05 48 minutes, 5 seconds I think also the fact that Amaraja is in a position to do a lot more localization domestic value addition and uh it's not I'm not only talking about sell parts 48:13 48 minutes, 13 seconds but even non- cell components is something that many other players are not going to be doing as much so with policies coming in to to mandate more 48:21 48 minutes, 21 seconds and more domestic value addition I think a group like Amaraja is definitely in a better position to handle this business 48:28 48 minutes, 28 seconds sure sir thank you and best wishes thank Thank you ladies and gentlemen. In order to ensure that management is able 48:37 48 minutes, 37 seconds to address questions from all the participants in the conference, we request you to limit two questions each per participant and rejoin the queue for any further follow-up questions. 48:47 48 minutes, 47 seconds Our next question comes from the line of Janesh Gandhi with Oakland Capital. Please go ahead. 48:53 48 minutes, 53 seconds Yeah, my question pertains to clarification on the go tech tie up. So uh have we received approvals from both 49:02 49 minutes, 2 seconds the government or uh hello I'm sorry I didn't catch that question. Can you repeat it? 49:11 49 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah my question was on was on the go techie up. So have we got approvals from both the governments uh India as well as China? 49:22 49 minutes, 22 seconds No the uh the deal earlier announced with goan is simply a corporate to corporate tie up. We've never sought any government approval on either side. It's a completely private deal. 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds Okay. 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds Uh but uh as we're informed there is a little bit of difficulty in terms of technology transfers coming from China. 49:44 49 minutes, 44 seconds So largely efforts for R&D and product development in Amaraja are driven internally and uh to the best of my 49:52 49 minutes, 52 seconds knowledge a lot of these deals are being coming under scrutiny. 49:57 49 minutes, 57 seconds Right. Right. Yeah. Know that's the reason I asked that question. So in that context our LFP uh plans will be now 50:04 50 minutes, 4 seconds based on our own technology. Yeah. And in that context like when should we expect LFP uh plant also to come on stream? 50:16 50 minutes, 16 seconds I think uh like I said the first capacity next year will be uh NNC LFP. 50:22 50 minutes, 22 seconds We have a couple of products in the pipeline that we're developing and as we get a little bit more confidence about the customer uh you know program but on 50:31 50 minutes, 31 seconds the EV side we'll uh be able to announce that in uh due course but probably sometime 28th and later 50:39 50 minutes, 39 seconds sorry that part last part can you please repeat that uh I think we give you a more firm date 50:47 50 minutes, 47 seconds but probably 2028 ending 2028. Got it. Got it. Okay. Great. Thanks and all the best. 50:56 50 minutes, 56 seconds Thank you. 50:58 50 minutes, 58 seconds Your next follow-up question comes from the line of Ganesha with Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. 51:04 51 minutes, 4 seconds Uh thank you very much. Um what I wanted to understand was on the localization itself. uh is this just an expectation of the best side or do you also think 51:12 51 minutes, 12 seconds this will be extended to EVs and in that context you you mentioned that you expect the shift to move more towards 51:21 51 minutes, 21 seconds best in the 16 gawatt hour so what are you expecting earlier and what do you think it will now be uh the best 51:27 51 minutes, 27 seconds component of the 16 I think we're still building out at least at a market level earlier our 51:36 51 minutes, 36 seconds projections are more about like 80% coming from EV long-term 20% from the ESFS I think long-term while EV will 51:44 51 minutes, 44 seconds still be the larger component today we believe it's going to look something more like 2/3 one/3 maybe even depending 51:51 51 minutes, 51 seconds on how successfully ESS continues to roll out this can even be higher in terms of our capacity we're still 51:58 51 minutes, 58 seconds mapping out right now so I don't have an exact answer but we remain committed to adding the 16 g hour in full in 52:08 52 minutes, 8 seconds understood And um we also expect some localization norms to be imposed for electric vehicles going forward when it 52:15 52 minutes, 15 seconds comes to cells and batteries. And the landscape seems to change a bit in the sense that a lot of our traditional customers seem to be assembling some of 52:23 52 minutes, 23 seconds their own packs now and some of them even are venturing into manufacturing their own shelves. So how does that play 52:30 52 minutes, 30 seconds into your utilization equation and customer conversations? Thank you. 52:38 52 minutes, 38 seconds So I think the way uh uh earlier I alluded to the way that the solar industry was incentivized. I think 52:46 52 minutes, 46 seconds that works better in a in a you know an area where government procurement drives the industry. So on the stationary side 52:54 52 minutes, 54 seconds that's something that uh we've heard talk of in the corridors or government and we expect on the EV side probably you can't add something in the exact 53:03 53 minutes, 3 seconds same mechanism but we do expect that and we've already seen that battery packs are incurring a higher duty than they were a couple of years ago that as and 53:12 53 minutes, 12 seconds when capacity comes up in India probably we'll see more from a direct duty uh increase on all the components that come along with it. 53:22 53 minutes, 22 seconds Right. And the portion on customers adding their own capacity for battery packs and some of them for sales. How does that play into your expected 53:31 53 minutes, 31 seconds utilization or conversations with the customers in terms of uptake from your production? I think that's not our biggest concern. 53:40 53 minutes, 40 seconds Um today definitely there are large OEMs like Tata or Ola Electric that are doing their own sales but [clears throat] I think by and large most of the OEMs that 53:49 53 minutes, 49 seconds we're in touch with don't have plans to localize cells so they're in talks with players like us to get into the cell localization. 53:58 53 minutes, 58 seconds Uh I think the bulk of the uh cell market will still remain open. Of course pack is something that we're seeing 54:05 54 minutes, 5 seconds evolving. Many LEMs are doing it in-house but there are still opportunities that we're seeing where they're asking us for sell. 54:15 54 minutes, 15 seconds All right. Thank you. Thank you. Very helpful. 54:20 54 minutes, 20 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We will take that as the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. 54:31 54 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you everyone. Uh see you until uh next time. Thanks for your questions. Um all the best. Thank you. 54:40 54 minutes, 40 seconds Thanks everyone. 54:42 54 minutes, 42 seconds Thank you on behalf of Anand Brady Share and Stock Brokers Limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you 54:49 54 minutes, 49 seconds everyone for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.