360 One Wam Ltd — Q4 FY26

360 One Wam Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Oev0NP0zw Published: 3 weeks ago

0:00 Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to 361 VA WAM earnings call for Q4 FY26. 0:07 7 seconds As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listenonly mode. In case you wish to ask questions or require 0:14 14 seconds assistance during the call, kindly signal the host by tapping on the raised hand icon. Please note this conference 0:22 22 seconds is being recorded. On the call today, we have with us Mr. Karan Bagat, MDN CEO, Mr. Yatan Sha CEO of the wealth 0:31 31 seconds business, Mr. Sahil Muraka, CEO of 361 Capital, Mr. Sanjay Vadwa, CFO and Mr. 0:39 39 seconds Anuman Maheshwari. I now hand it over to Mr. Sanjay Vadada to take this call forward. 0:46 46 seconds Thank you Anil. Uh a very good evening to all the participants. uh FI26 has been a landmark year for F for 361 in 0:54 54 seconds which we have delivered strong financial outcomes and also meaningfully expanded the platform to complete our flywheel. 1:02 1 minute, 2 seconds Our core tenets the growth resilience and agility have once again been validated in a year that tested markets 1:10 1 minute, 10 seconds and businesses alike. FY26 was characterized by complex interplay of global and domestic factors. Indian 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds capital markets saw periods of increased volatility driven by evolving geopolitical dynamics and shifting global sentiments. While equity indices 1:26 1 minute, 26 seconds touched bullish levels in the first half, markets witnessed phases of correction and sectoral rotation through the year testing investor conviction. 1:35 1 minute, 35 seconds Encouragingly, the Indian wealth and asset management ecosystem remained resilient, supported by record SIP contributions, sustained monetization 1:44 1 minute, 44 seconds activity across IPOs, block deals, uh, private equity exits, and a growing investor preference for professionally 1:51 1 minute, 51 seconds managed and alternate asset classes. A progressive regulatory environment continues to strengthen transparency, investor conference, and long-term 1:59 1 minute, 59 seconds capital formation. Let me turn to the numbers now. Our total arum increased to 311940 2:06 2 minutes, 6 seconds crores up 26% yearonear with wealth arum at 2 lakh6,000 crores and asset 2:12 2 minutes, 12 seconds management arum at 95,000 crores. Total AUM stood at 6.7 lakh crores as on March 2:19 2 minutes, 19 seconds 2026 reflecting a 22% CAGR over the last 5 years. More importantly, AR AUM has 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds grown at a C CAGGR of 26% in the same period and AR revenues recorded a strong 2:33 2 minutes, 33 seconds CAGR of 32%. AR net flows for FI26 are at 55,875 2:40 2 minutes, 40 seconds crores. of this even if we exclude the acquisition related outflows the organic 2:45 2 minutes, 45 seconds FI26 net flows rose 36% to 35199 crores representing 14% of our opening aum 2:54 2 minutes, 54 seconds within this net flows on wealth were 25,900 crores and asset management at 9,299 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second crores reflecting robust momentum from our core UHNI franchise maturing contributions from newly onboarded teams 3:09 3 minutes, 9 seconds and demanding demand across all asset classes within asset management. FYI26 3:15 3 minutes, 15 seconds AR revenue stood at 2289 crores up 34.5% YI and ER revenue now comprising 75% of 3:24 3 minutes, 24 seconds total revenue from operations. Q4 FI26 ER revenue was at 605 crores up 20.4% 4% 3:32 3 minutes, 32 seconds yra retention was at 78 basis points with wealth at 76 basis points and asset management at 83 basis points 3:42 3 minutes, 42 seconds transaction and broking revenues rose 4.4% 4% to 777 crores for the full year 3:48 3 minutes, 48 seconds and rupes 230 crores for Q4 up 30 up 53.7% yi the strong Q4 numbers partly 3:57 3 minutes, 57 seconds reflect the full quarter consolidation of 361 capital the institutional equities business formerly known as BNK 4:04 4 minutes, 4 seconds securities whose broking revenue adds a structurally more consistent annuity-like component to what has historically been a more transactional 4:13 4 minutes, 13 seconds revenue stream total revenue increased 18.6% to 3144 crores for FI26. Q4 4:20 4 minutes, 20 seconds revenue was rupees 780 crores up 18.5% of YI driven by strong growth across 4:27 4 minutes, 27 seconds both wealth and asset verticles partially offset by lower other income. 4:32 4 minutes, 32 seconds On cost FI26 total cost stood at 1568 cr. These are not directly comparable to 4:38 4 minutes, 38 seconds FI25 due to consolidation of BNK securities and uh ET money. FI26 cost to income stood at 49.9%. 4:48 4 minutes, 48 seconds However, cost to total operating income stood at around 50% in as against 49.5% during the previous quarter. 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds The UHNI wealth and asset management cost to income ratios remain stable at 44 45% uh with higher ratio reflecting 5:06 5 minutes, 6 seconds investment phase of our newer businesses. We expect gradual improvement in this metrics as these businesses scale up. We drive synergies 5:14 5 minutes, 14 seconds from strategic initiatives and incoming wealth team reach full productivity. As an update to our past communication on tax related matters, we have received an 5:23 5 minutes, 23 seconds order today from the tax authorities with an aggregate demand of 336 crores. 5:28 5 minutes, 28 seconds We believe that we have duly discharged all tax liabilities as applicable. We have adequate factual and legal grounds to substantiate our position and we do 5:37 5 minutes, 37 seconds not expect any material impact on the financials or oper or or on our operations due to this orders. We will 5:44 5 minutes, 44 seconds pursue appeals against the entire order under the applicable laws. We are happy to report the company recorded its uh 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds recorded its highest PAT uh fullear PAT for in FI26 of 1225 crores an increase 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds of 20.7%. Tangible ROE stood at 19.3% and we expect this to improve as capital 6:05 6 minutes, 5 seconds deployed in our lending and alternate businesses begin to reflect in earnings. 6:09 6 minutes, 9 seconds The board has approved the first interim dividend of 6 rupees per share continuing our disciplined capital allocation philosophy returning capital 6:18 6 minutes, 18 seconds to shareholders where we have surplus while retaining sufficient capacity to fund growth in our lending alternate and strategic initiatives. 6:28 6 minutes, 28 seconds Moving on from the numbers to a brief update on our new business and strategic initiatives on the HNI segment. Our 6:36 6 minutes, 36 seconds reserve program now has approximately 60 relationship managers across 12 locations managing close to 4,000 crores 6:43 6 minutes, 43 seconds of AUM for 650 plus clients at ARR retention yields of around 90 basis 6:50 6 minutes, 50 seconds points. This is natural extension of our UHNI franchise and a powerful feeder pipeline into our core proposition. With 6:59 6 minutes, 59 seconds an increase in business momentum and RM productivity in the coming year, we would expect the overall financial performance of this segment to improve 7:07 7 minutes, 7 seconds significantly on ET money. FI26 has been a year of strategic transformation on the business model and discipline 7:15 7 minutes, 15 seconds execution to drive multiple onground changes with different engines at play. 7:20 7 minutes, 20 seconds We would expect the business to head towards break even in the near term. The integration of BNK is now complete and 7:28 7 minutes, 28 seconds the institutional equities business has been rebranded as 361 Capital. The business continues to perform strongly 7:35 7 minutes, 35 seconds with over 500 mid and small cap companies under coverage. Over 3,000 in 300 institutional clients and over 90% 7:42 7 minutes, 42 seconds cash segment share in the broking revenue. Importantly, the expected strategic uh synergies are coming to life with brokerage revenues from UHNI 7:52 7 minutes, 52 seconds clients seeing an uplift uplift and access to 600 plus corporate treasuries has open distribution and lending channels. Our investment banking 8:00 8 minutes platform is being built out and we expect to begin uh it to begin meaningful contribution over the next 12 to 18 months on the UBS collaboration. 8:10 8 minutes, 10 seconds Cross referral programs in the wealth business across NRI resident and global mandates are showing positive early 8:17 8 minutes, 17 seconds traction and we expect these to convert to meaningful relations over the coming financial year. On the asset management side, we are seeing early synergies with 8:25 8 minutes, 25 seconds UBS's global distribution, providing a pathway for our alternate and listed strategies to access offshore capital. 8:33 8 minutes, 33 seconds As we look towards FI27 and beyond, we remain confident despite ongoing volatility. Over 18 years, we have navigated multiple challenges 8:41 8 minutes, 41 seconds challenging cycles guided by steadfast focus on fundamentals and an unwavering commitment to client interest. Today we 8:49 8 minutes, 49 seconds are supported by a strong balance sheet, a talented high-quality team and a culture anchored in doing the right things. I would like to thank all our 8:58 8 minutes, 58 seconds stakeholders who have been with us through these 18 years and with that I'll hand it over to Karan for his comments. 9:11 9 minutes, 11 seconds Over to you Karan. 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds Please give us a minute while current joins. 9:39 9 minutes, 39 seconds Thank you Sanjay. Thank you uh everyone for logging into the call and good evening everybody. 9:45 9 minutes, 45 seconds um you know given the fact that this is a year- end call I'll potentially take five minutes extra and talk a little bit about the strategy and where we see 9:53 9 minutes, 53 seconds ourselves in context of the overall market and then open it up for question and answers. So good evening everyone. 9:59 9 minutes, 59 seconds Today I wanted to talk through four things where we see number one the markets heading what gives us our competitive edge where we acknowledge 10:06 10 minutes, 6 seconds where we need to do slightly better the extraordinary opportunities that lie ahead of us and most importantly the risks which we are actively managing. 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds Let me set the stage with the macro picture first. Financial year 2026 was undeniably challenging for the Indian 10:21 10 minutes, 21 seconds equity markets. investors both foreign and otherwise ended up withdrawing nearly 15 to20 billion dollars but very 10:30 10 minutes, 30 seconds well mitigated by the amount of domestic flows we saw especially through the mutual fund industry however from a very critical angle India's domestic 10:38 10 minutes, 38 seconds fundamentals have remained extremely strong our most important our most important client set the ultra 10:46 10 minutes, 46 seconds high net worth individual and the operating business has continued to do substantially well we have responded extremely well and we've seen investors 10:55 10 minutes, 55 seconds diversify and invest over the last 12 months across multiple ISER classes. 11:00 11 minutes While we continue to remain relatively sanuin, we believe in a large way the headwinds are largely priced in policy 11:07 11 minutes, 7 seconds environment largely supportive and for long-term investors the markets present one of the most attractive entry points across multiple asset classes both on 11:16 11 minutes, 16 seconds the equity side, yield plus assets as well as on the private equity side. As a wealth and asset management firm, this is precisely the environment where our 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds advisory capabilities matter most and we are able to make a big difference to being able to give the right set of 11:31 11 minutes, 31 seconds advice to our clients. Let me turn across to some of our key strengths. The first and most important strength for us which we feel today is today our brand. 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds We've never felt our brand has been stronger before over the last 18 to 19 years since we started our business in 2008. We built ourselves a name that is 11:50 11 minutes, 50 seconds synonymous with integrity, discretion, and long-term thinking. And more often than not, saying no for deals as opposed to saying yes. Our clients come to us 11:59 11 minutes, 59 seconds not just for returns, but because they trust us with the fiduciary responsibility and a financial future, which is very important for them and 12:06 12 minutes, 6 seconds across multiple generations. The brand's taken decades to build and it compounds over time and much like the portfolios we manage and we continue to protect our 12:15 12 minutes, 15 seconds brand with as much zealousness as possible. 12:19 12 minutes, 19 seconds Secondly, we become the platform where we able to attract the best quality people. Eventually, our business is a relationship digital business. caliber 12:27 12 minutes, 27 seconds of our teams and sum total of our investment professionals, our wealth management professionals and most importantly our partners finally 12:36 12 minutes, 36 seconds determine the quality of advice we deliver. Our relationship managers are not simply salespeople. They're trusted advisers with deep sectoral knowledge, 12:43 12 minutes, 43 seconds sophisticated product understanding, and genuine client empathy. Equally important are our fund managers and investment professionals who translate 12:50 12 minutes, 50 seconds market conviction into portfolio man into portfolio performance. Over the last five years, we built deep teams which have navigated multiple market 12:58 12 minutes, 58 seconds cycles and the disciplined research-driven approach is a core reason why clients stay with with us through volatility. 13:06 13 minutes, 6 seconds Our own understanding uh is across multiple asset classes largely comes across as a function of us investing and 13:14 13 minutes, 14 seconds building in a talent base that is combined institutional rigor entrepreneurial energy as well as top tier investment advisory professionals 13:21 13 minutes, 21 seconds who are with an intellectual honesty able to think for the long term. 13:26 13 minutes, 26 seconds Thirdly, we today as an ecosystem are blessed to be the partner of first choice. If you look at large investment 13:33 13 minutes, 33 seconds firms across the world for their India entry strategies for domestic private equity funds as well as partners who are large operators in India, we are the 13:42 13 minutes, 42 seconds natural partners to combine with them to be able to do the right set of transactions and provide them the right amount of financial patient capital. 13:50 13 minutes, 50 seconds These partnerships give our client access to best-in-class investment opportunities across multiple asset classes. Our shelf remains curated. It's 13:58 13 minutes, 58 seconds not crowded. We recommended, we always recommend what we believe in. We are never a pure broker. We always always ensure that we are able to get to the client what we really value and advise. 14:10 14 minutes, 10 seconds The fourth big change is the massive support which has come through the regulatory changes over the last four to five years. uh we've been blessed in a 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds sense where SABI has made active regulatory changes over the last four to five years both on the alternates industry as well as on the mutual fund industry and the portfolio management 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds services as well as the wealth advisory regulations to enable us to operate in a more transparent and institutionalized market. Recent changes including the 14:35 14 minutes, 35 seconds co-investment guidelines, accredited investors, introduction of SIFS allows us to play directly to our strengths as well as a compliance first organization. 14:46 14 minutes, 46 seconds Lastly and fifth fifth rather not lastly fifth I think diversification for us has been superb we are not a one product 14:53 14 minutes, 53 seconds firm and most importantly we are not even a one asset class firm and that has enabled us to write through volatality in a very unique way today if I reflect 15:01 15 minutes, 1 second and look back at our client portfolios over the last 24 to 36 months they've been steadfast largely because of a diversified allocation of not more than 15:10 15 minutes, 10 seconds 40 to 50% in listed equities nearly 20 25% allocation to yield assets nearly 35% allocation to international assets, 15:18 15 minutes, 18 seconds 5 to 10% to uh safe debt and 10 to 15% to alternates through a combination of real assets, private credit as well as 15:26 15 minutes, 26 seconds private equity. This obviously allows a sustained return allows the client to build a very strong investment policy statement and look at his returns with 15:34 15 minutes, 34 seconds the least amount of volatility and a long amount of compounding. 15:39 15 minutes, 39 seconds Finally, technology and artificial intelligence for us is a big opportunity. It's not an it's not only a it's not only something which is a 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds challenge but it also an opportunity because it allows us to make a port make a make a firm which is substantially more portfolio analytics driven and 15:55 15 minutes, 55 seconds build personalized reporting tools that enable our relationship managers to be able to service the client in a faster 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds more clearer cleaner manner and most importantly with realtime insights. On the investment sites our fund managers can be substantially more productive. we 16:11 16 minutes, 11 seconds are able to get access to research which is substantially faster. 16:15 16 minutes, 15 seconds On the operational side, obviously AI can power our monitoring, workflows, document processing and most importantly freeing up our best people to focus on 16:23 16 minutes, 23 seconds truly what matters which is thinking advice and innovating constantly. These six areas of our brand today give us a 16:31 16 minutes, 31 seconds lot of confidence not only to consolidate but also to expand and substantially build out our firm for the next six to seven to 10 odd years. 16:40 16 minutes, 40 seconds Obviously when we look back there are certain areas of improvement and over the next 24 to 36 months we'll work steadfastly to ensure that we are able 16:49 16 minutes, 49 seconds to build out and improve on these following areas. I think over the last 24 to 36 months we've ended up uh we've 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds kind of got into three new businesses. I think one is largely the high net worth business which we're building out in a very slow measured manner. I think last 17:05 17 minutes, 5 seconds year is a good year for our measured success. I think team's done a phenomenal job in raising close to 3 three and a half thousand crores of net flows. Um on an average for the year 17:14 17 minutes, 14 seconds we've had only 3540 relationship managers. Uh on a closing basis we have 6465 relationship managers. It really doesn't show up in revenue numbers 17:23 17 minutes, 23 seconds because a large portion of the assets are mutual funds and the broker code change affects revenue only after 12 months. But the quality of the business 17:30 17 minutes, 30 seconds and the quantum of the business has made us very very excited. We'll continue to grow this in a measured manner. Our tech platform here is extremely uh extremely 17:39 17 minutes, 39 seconds unique. It's a digital platform. It is something which is set up to service clients between 2 to 25 crores as opposed to set up clients which are 17:46 17 minutes, 46 seconds purely online. And we believe we have a good winning combination there. And over the next 12 to 24 months as we build 17:53 17 minutes, 53 seconds this out, not only will we see assets coming, but we'll also see the revenue reflecting in our um uh in our profit 18:00 18 minutes and loss account. Secondly, obviously we've got a a large uh we've got a large platform built with 361 Capital. We made 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds the acquisition around about 9 to 10 months back. Obviously, the the firm was extremely strong on the equity side and 18:16 18 minutes, 16 seconds over the next 12 months, we will carefully pick up a very very strong team on the banking side. Uh it's a business which we are excited about not 18:23 18 minutes, 23 seconds purely because of the business alone but largely because the wealth and the asset management business is an automatic feeder into the institutional business 18:31 18 minutes, 31 seconds from a relationship perspective. At the end of the day we would love to do business with the 10,000 families who from a who from a promoter-based 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds perspective or professional perspective effectively engage with us engage with us on all three sides. Obviously those those are 18:47 18 minutes, 47 seconds the 10,000 families who can potentially give us wealth to manage. Those are the 10,000 families we can provide capital at different phases of time and in 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds different parts of their balance sheet through our fund management side and eventually those are the 10,000 families we can hopefully cater and build out 19:03 19 minutes, 3 seconds their capital markets journey as they start out from small businesses and turn into large businesses. The second area is operational efficiency and 19:11 19 minutes, 11 seconds productivity. Like pretty much every firm, we've grown in a very large way over the last five to six years. We would need to continue to work hard to 19:19 19 minutes, 19 seconds ensure that we are not only operationally efficient, but we are also extremely productive. I think in some ways it shows up in our cost to income 19:27 19 minutes, 27 seconds ratios. We still believe even outside the new businesses we built out at a cost to income ratio of 49 to 50%, it's 19:35 19 minutes, 35 seconds something which we should be able to get down to 46 to 48%. And over the next 2 to 3 years, even though our core wealth and asset management business have 19:42 19 minutes, 42 seconds remained very very uh very very rigorously in the region of 44 to 45, we strongly continue to work hard to ensure 19:50 19 minutes, 50 seconds that our cost to income ratios move towards the 45 to 46 to 47% numbers driven both by operational leverage and efficiency on the core businesses as 19:58 19 minutes, 58 seconds well as improvement in the new businesses. 20:01 20 minutes, 1 second A critical part of this efficiency agenda is obviously to have discipline on people costs. We've managed our people extremely well. While at the top 20:09 20 minutes, 9 seconds end, we've continued to be at the right right u right range and more often than not above 90th percentile in terms of uh 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds compensation. On the hiring side, today we need to adjust to ensure that we hire not only the best quality people but also ensure that the platform is 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds extremely productive where we are able to manage the new realities of AI together with the right amount of 20:32 20 minutes, 32 seconds delivery on the talent side. With this I come to the opportunity ahead and this is obviously the most exciting part of 20:40 20 minutes, 40 seconds of of our own journey over the next 10 odd years. I think the the journey ahead on all three businesses wealth asset as 20:47 20 minutes, 47 seconds well as capital markets and also lending remains superbly exciting. On the wealth management side we really strongly 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds believe we should be able to get to 12 to 15% of our opening aum every year as net flows. It's a tall order but we 21:02 21 minutes, 2 seconds continue to work hard. our brand, our ability to attract the right set of people, grow our relationship managers and team leaders in a very measured 21:10 21 minutes, 10 seconds manner by 10 to 15% every year allows us to grow our opening aum by 12 to 15% every year. Needless to say on a overall 21:20 21 minutes, 20 seconds not maybe on a quarterly or a yearly basis marktomarket of 10 to 12% definitely comes in. If I was to look 21:27 21 minutes, 27 seconds back over the last 15 years and we were just looking at some data over the last 16 years, all our client portfolios have actually grown at 15.4% on a compounded yearly basis over the last 16 years. 21:39 21 minutes, 39 seconds Hopefully, we are able to continue to give a performance maybe not 15% but in the new world order of some number between 10 to 14%, but we are very 21:48 21 minutes, 48 seconds confident that on a rolling basis we will get a marktomarket benefit of somewhere between the 10 to 12 to 14%. 21:54 21 minutes, 54 seconds and continued with an opening AUM growth of 12 to 14%. We should be able to grow our AUM on the wealth management side by 20 to 25% grow our relationship managers 22:03 22 minutes, 3 seconds carefully by 25 to 30% every year over the next 3 to four years and effectively grow our profits on the wealth management side by 15 to 25%. 22:12 22 minutes, 12 seconds On the asset management side needless to say I think the alternates industry continues to grow in a very very big way. Uh it's it's it's it's a it's it's 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds a business which is uh allowed us to differentiate, allowed us to innovate, allowed us to uh take part in assets which are u which are u which which 22:28 22 minutes, 28 seconds which which kind of come through in different parts of the balance sheet for the firm for the for the client. We're able to participate with him in his journey on the equity side, on the fixed 22:36 22 minutes, 36 seconds income side. Sometimes we're able to do innovative transactions on the um on the on the yield plus side. And I'm I'm extremely happy to say that you know 22:44 22 minutes, 44 seconds we've if I look at all asset classes today we've really dug deep and uh we have 15 to 20 investment professionals on each of these strategies which allows 22:52 22 minutes, 52 seconds us to really respond well in time and allows us to build a very very fiduciary and a great relationship with clients and we've been able to we have one of 23:01 23 minutes, 1 second the few private equity funds which have returned such a lot of money to clients over the last five to six years. We raised a fund which was nearly 5 and a 23:08 23 minutes, 8 seconds half 6,000 crores in 201819. We returned the entire fund at around about 1.82 times and a grow net return of around 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds about 16% over a short period of 16% compounded over a short period of four to five years. The mutual fund industry continues to do extremely well. Needless 23:24 23 minutes, 24 seconds to say, uh it's it's a it's a it's it's a it's a power it's a compounding powerhouse. Uh that's one of the areas where we potentially could do better. I 23:32 23 minutes, 32 seconds think with the introduction of CIFS, I think that's again something which comes naturally to us. So that's again something which we are extremely excited about. We would love to do better on the 23:41 23 minutes, 41 seconds on the mutual fund side whereas emphasize and ensure that we have our clear leadership position maintained both on the wealth management side as 23:48 23 minutes, 48 seconds well as on the as well as on the alternate side. On the capital side obviously you know needless to say like every business the opportunity is 23:56 23 minutes, 56 seconds tremendous but we have two opportunities there. The first opportunities is obviously on the equity side and equities for us as a firm for 361 from 24:05 24 minutes, 5 seconds the wealth management side has not been the strongest vote. I think we have a lot of opportunity there. I think uh together with the 361 capital research 24:14 24 minutes, 14 seconds team and our own ability to take that equity research to our wealth management clients uh that revenue line item for us has been only 85 to 90 crores 24:22 24 minutes, 22 seconds historically a year. I see that kind of doubling if not tripling over the next 3 to 5 years as we add research. Combined 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds with that obviously the uh uh the 361 capital equities business was substantially well set up that would 24:37 24 minutes, 37 seconds also expand and hopefully we can see our equity and equity related income uh without considering the banking income nearly you know double over the next 3 24:45 24 minutes, 45 seconds to four years. The banking business is something which obviously again is a very very services business and to get 24:52 24 minutes, 52 seconds success in that apart from relationships and apart from the ability to execute we also need the best people. We are no 24:59 24 minutes, 59 seconds hurry. We will build out our team in a very very measured manner. We've got 12 super investment professionals to hire. 25:05 25 minutes, 5 seconds Uh we're pleased to announce nearly four out of those 12 are in place and over the next three to four months you would see us be substantially more competitive 25:13 25 minutes, 13 seconds in the market with a very strong combination of the right set of product execution capability, the right set of people and most importantly the right 25:21 25 minutes, 21 seconds platform and network to be able to succeed in that business. On the lending side, we've done extremely well. We've stuck to our discipline. Um we've got a 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds super team which has been with us and um led the led the business from ground ground up um or since 2016 fast forward 25:37 25 minutes, 37 seconds uh to a decade today uh we've been able to run the business without a single rupee of single rupee of NPA single rupee of loss we stuck to our core uh 25:46 25 minutes, 46 seconds the business we focused on is uh is largely Lombard lending largely portfolio lending to our to our wealth management clients uh we've not got 25:54 25 minutes, 54 seconds carried away we've not got tempted and that's allowed us to sustainably grow that business uh without you know without without any accidents and 26:02 26 minutes, 2 seconds hopefully no accidents to come in the future. All of this is an opportunity and we've really enjoyed our journey for the last 18 years. Having said that 26:10 26 minutes, 10 seconds risks are always there and we need to ensure that we continue to manage these risks in an optimal way. First and most important I think the biggest risk in 26:19 26 minutes, 19 seconds India and that's also the biggest opportunity is at all points of time we need to roll up our sleeves and handle execution and that's most important I 26:28 26 minutes, 28 seconds think as we keep building the team and today we are 15800 proud professionals we need to ensure 26:35 26 minutes, 35 seconds that we at all points of time 24 by7 are only doing one thing ensuring there is great amount of execution great amount 26:43 26 minutes, 43 seconds of attention to detail and ensuring at all points of time the right set of people including our employers employ including our employees including our 26:52 26 minutes, 52 seconds clients are able to get responses in the right right um right point of time we're investing heavily into middle management 27:00 27 minutes leadership depth we are ensuring the organization is professionalized right from the top and ensuring at the very 27:06 27 minutes, 6 seconds very end culture is reflected in everything we do not only in our product selection but even in our client service 27:13 27 minutes, 13 seconds for us all of this is coming together India is at an inflection point. The macroeconomic foundations are extremely strong. The regulatory environment has 27:21 27 minutes, 21 seconds been super supportive and the addressable market for wealth, asset management alternatives and lending is expanding at a pace never seen before. 27:29 27 minutes, 29 seconds We are happy to have the right set of brand, the people, partners, platform and the right levers to get a disproportionate share of this 27:36 27 minutes, 36 seconds opportunity. uh we've been blessed to be a large participant in the market and have a large percentage of market share and we only hope to be able to double 27:44 27 minutes, 44 seconds our market share over the next 3 to 5 years. So with this our trajectory is clear and I'm we thank you again for 27:51 27 minutes, 51 seconds being valuable shareholders and um thanks a lot for this call and happy to take questions. 27:58 27 minutes, 58 seconds Thank you Karan. In case you wish any qu to ask any questions request you to kindly tap on the raise hand icon. First 28:06 28 minutes, 6 seconds in line we have Mohit Mangal. Kindly unmute yourself and ask your question. 28:10 28 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers. I've got three questions. My first question is on the transactional income. So I think the transactional 28:19 28 minutes, 19 seconds income if you see it was very strong at 230 odd Kes in quarter 4 and even if I look at the presentation the UHNI TBR 28:26 28 minutes, 26 seconds was very strong at 177 K. So just wanted to understand the reasons for the sale and secondly you earlier guided for 28:34 28 minutes, 34 seconds around 125 to 130 odd kores per quarter is is an ideal way to look at TBR. Uh do you want to revise that number? Uh that 28:42 28 minutes, 42 seconds that's question number one. Question number two basically if you look on the flow side I think one of the area of the concern is the discretionary PMS on the 28:51 28 minutes, 51 seconds AMC side. I think uh it has been getting outflows you know for the last few quarters. So what is our strategy to get back especially on that segment? And 29:00 29 minutes lastly I want you to uh if if you can give some guidance on ease X of carry over the next two to three years do we 29:07 29 minutes, 7 seconds kind of bake in some kind of a decline of one or two bits or do you think it will remain stable? Yeah those are my three questions. 29:14 29 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you. Thank you Mohammed. So on the on the transaction brokerage revenue side I think um you know I think what's really helped us across multiple market 29:23 29 minutes, 23 seconds cycles and I always like to be conservative there because at the end of the day uh you know those that's one part of revenue which is not fully in 29:30 29 minutes, 30 seconds our control but I think what has really helped us and you've seen a lot of consistency come in largely because of the fact that we are able to kind of play between asset classes uh so 29:39 29 minutes, 39 seconds obviously you know in one quarter it's fixed income the other quarter it's equity uh and obviously I think 29:46 29 minutes, 46 seconds enhanced kind of effort on improving both our fixed income brokerage as well as equity brokerage is also kind of paying off. So I think overall uh you 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds know I am kind of I would I would like to say together with the BNK capital acquisition and 361 capital coming into 30:03 30 minutes, 3 seconds place. It would be safe to say that 125 130 crores of quarterly TBR now today looks like closer to the 175 180 crores 30:12 30 minutes, 12 seconds of TBR for sure. Obviously needless to say we would like to grow this towards the u uh towards uh towards north of the 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds 200 number but u as of now if I would feel much more comfortable about a 16 170 180 cr number as compared to 13140 30:29 30 minutes, 29 seconds cr number in the past on the discretionary PMS I agree with you I think the growth there has been slightly slightly softer than what we would have 30:37 30 minutes, 37 seconds wanted I think uh that's kind of little supplemented with the growth on the um on the on the advisory side but I think 30:45 30 minutes, 45 seconds we're making certain set of certain set of changes there and I think we need to I think in retrospect you know we looked at that strategy in all honesty as a as 30:54 30 minutes, 54 seconds a slightly more relative relative return to the uh relative return to the index kind of 31:01 31 minutes, 1 second strategy more core I think uh we would need to do slightly more slightly more active active work there to kind of grow 31:10 31 minutes, 10 seconds the AUM so I think little bit of changes on the um on the on the discretionary side. I think clients who've kind of 31:17 31 minutes, 17 seconds looked upon at giving us a very customuilt mandate have done extremely well and they've continued to add aumum because they've kind of got the best out 31:24 31 minutes, 24 seconds of our u best of our advice. Uh but where we've tried to do very very uh benchmark hugging portfolios on the discretionary PMS side uh that maybe is 31:33 31 minutes, 33 seconds not really kind of worked out in the same way. But I think uh we we kind of have pivoted our strategy a bit. we launch it uh somewhere in the first week 31:41 31 minutes, 41 seconds of uh June. So I I do expect those numbers to kind of move up a bit on the on the third sorry I just slipped the third question. 31:49 31 minutes, 49 seconds Yeah, the ES of carry. 31:52 31 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah. So yields x of car actually not too worried about I think our our accounting policy on carry is quite quite u quite conservative. I think um 32:00 32 minutes uh what what really helps us there is um we've got it both time weighted return weighted as well as um u hurdle guarded. 32:08 32 minutes, 8 seconds So in some senses you know every quarter um every half year there is there might be a little bit of variation quarterly but yearly I think it's safe to assume 32:17 32 minutes, 17 seconds around about uh 10 to 14 basis points of our carryable AUM uh kind of gets acred every year. Uh our carryable AUM of the 32:26 32 minutes, 26 seconds overall alternates business would be around about 70 75%. Uh so today give or take around about 30 35,000 crores would 32:33 32 minutes, 33 seconds be broadly carryable. uh so on of that roundabout I would say give or take you know in a bad year 5 to seven basis 32:42 32 minutes, 42 seconds points and in a very good year 12 to 15 basis points of carry is potentially going to acrew. So if you ask me today around about on the on the south side 32:50 32 minutes, 50 seconds round about 150 175 crores and on the north side around about 300 325 crores of carry is um something which can kind 32:58 32 minutes, 58 seconds of come in. So round about uh from a modeling perspective I would say approximately 10 basis points um is the right number to look at and obviously 33:06 33 minutes, 6 seconds you've got around about 85 90 basis points coming out of the management fees on the alternates business. So around about 95 200 basis points on alternates um is the yield I would look at. 33:16 33 minutes, 16 seconds Understood. Thanks and wish you all the best for financial equity. Thank you. Thank you Mo. 33:22 33 minutes, 22 seconds Thank you. Next in line we have P Jane P. Kindly unmute and ask your question. 33:29 33 minutes, 29 seconds Hey. Hi. Hi. Hi, Karan. Uh, uh, just a few questions. Firstly, I'm just trying to read your outlook statement where you 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds mentioned that, uh, your AUM growth will be about 20 25% and RM addition, if I 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds got it right, would be 20 25% per and you mentioned about PAT or profit growth to be like 15 to 25%. Just trying to 33:51 33 minutes, 51 seconds read between the lines there whether are we seeing are you talking about cost to income to be a slightly on the higher side because of the hiring and that's 33:58 33 minutes, 58 seconds kind of going to put some pressure on your profit growth relative to the uh you know AUM or the or yield compression 34:05 34 minutes, 5 seconds or whichever way you you you want to talk about it. uh that's one uh uh second is you know when you talk about transactional revenues 34:14 34 minutes, 14 seconds uh BNK obviously will have the challenge of uh the yields compression that we will get it from get from the mutual fund companies from 1 April. Uh and in 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds spite of that would you still kind of stick to your guidance of about 175 to 200 cr kind of quarterly run rate. uh 34:30 34 minutes, 30 seconds and uh third is how do you see the overall cost to income scenario for the company uh given the given the scenar 34:38 34 minutes, 38 seconds given the you know competitive environment particularly on the RM hiring front yeah those would be my questions thanks 34:46 34 minutes, 46 seconds thank you so I think all three fair questions and I think obviously all three all three are challenges we live on from a from a day-to-day basis but um 34:56 34 minutes, 56 seconds but but to kind of just balance things out I think um It's fair to say that you know I think from a yield perspective 35:04 35 minutes, 4 seconds you know things things are broadly in line. I'm not really kind of too too worried about the um about the yields. 35:10 35 minutes, 10 seconds There will always be certain degree of a certain degree of pressure. Similarly on the relationship manager compensation side ability to recruit people invest in 35:19 35 minutes, 19 seconds new businesses. I think they are all they're all kind of phases in some ways. 35:23 35 minutes, 23 seconds I think if I just look at the metrics standalone and you know we we do this all the time. I think if you very strongly look at the ultra high net 35:31 35 minutes, 31 seconds worth business and the asset management business and uh you know kind of look at look at it x of uh the three three kind 35:38 35 minutes, 38 seconds of acquisitions we did last year. So if you if I kind of exclude exclude 361 capital which was earlier BNK capital 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds exclude ET money and exclude um uh the UBS transaction both in terms of the flows the money which came in and the 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds money which gave out. I think on the core um on the core business which is the alternate asset management business as well as the wealth management business I think we've done really well. 36:01 36 minutes, 1 second I think our cost to income remains in the region of the zip code of 44 45 46% which I think is a superb a superb 36:08 36 minutes, 8 seconds number and I think as we've seen a little bit of churn of teams as well as addition of new teams and there's a passage of time where the older teams 36:16 36 minutes, 16 seconds have become more productive and the newer teams are kind of getting to be productive. I think uh that model for us is very well solved. So I think our 36:23 36 minutes, 23 seconds ability to get operating leverage there is um fairly high. In fact to if you ask me today I think it's a great opportunity to double down on our on our 36:31 36 minutes, 31 seconds brand and attract the right set of wealth managers to our platform. I think the industry in a phase of consolidation um and we are honestly not scared to 36:39 36 minutes, 39 seconds kind of attract the right set of people and maybe take a call on uh building out another 25 34 35 relationship manages 36:46 36 minutes, 46 seconds this year itself and front ending the growth a little bit. uh so on the wealth management side very very confident on our operating model and I think compared 36:55 36 minutes, 55 seconds to any other model in the in the country I think we'll be able to plug in these relationship managers the senior relationship managers into a system like 37:01 37 minutes, 1 second ours substantially faster so honestly I think you know outside of outside of normal normal execution challenges on on 37:09 37 minutes, 9 seconds a business model perspective I think I'm fairly confident on the um on the on the ultra high net worth side on the on the capital side obviously I think um you 37:18 37 minutes, 18 seconds know on an average and you know we've the the the the BNK business was operating in the zip code of the five to six basis points um retention. uh so 37:27 37 minutes, 27 seconds while there is a little bit of an impact it's not a it's not a it's not an impact which is very large for us to kind of dramatically change our dramatically 37:35 37 minutes, 35 seconds change our quarterly numbers I think it changes by around about 2 to 3% so on a on a on a broad base of around about 200 225 crores it's it's not it's not it's 37:44 37 minutes, 44 seconds not really relevant in that sense and I think uh there are some bit of synergy benefits even um even to the institutional business which come from 37:51 37 minutes, 51 seconds um which come from us kind of coming together which more than offsets that um off offset that uh change on the equity 37:59 37 minutes, 59 seconds side. You know, as I said earlier, my confidence really on the TBR comes from the ability for us to kind of increase our own equities brokers from our ultra 38:07 38 minutes, 7 seconds high net worth clients. And the 175 to 200 cr number is not something which is like cast in stone immediately. But I 38:14 38 minutes, 14 seconds think uh to a number which was 125 to 140 comparable earlier, I think the 160 to 180 seems um seems better right now. 38:23 38 minutes, 23 seconds And uh lastly I think u from a from a relationship manager perspective uh you know I think uh the warf for talent is 38:32 38 minutes, 32 seconds always there but I think we are always uh we are always going to be between the 90th to the 110th percentile I think uh depending on the talent once it crosses 38:40 38 minutes, 40 seconds 110th percentile it becomes uh tough for even for us to uh kind of manage and I think there are enough very very smart 38:48 38 minutes, 48 seconds relationship managers there and uh they they are very very entrepreneurial they know how to build their business and they know it's uh it's it's a function 38:55 38 minutes, 55 seconds of u not only not only 110% compensation but it's a function of the platform and eventually what they are able to do 39:03 39 minutes, 3 seconds right by the clients build their business in efficient manner and at the same point while delivering the best for the clients earn the maximum amount of 39:10 39 minutes, 10 seconds compensation so I think that's that's really where it is so honestly uh you know I I I agree with you on all the three points but there are execution 39:17 39 minutes, 17 seconds challenges uh which which which allow us to kind of grow faster than the industry Go there. Thank you. 39:26 39 minutes, 26 seconds Thank you P. Next in line we have Abijit Sakari. Abijit kindly unmute yourself and ask your question. 39:33 39 minutes, 33 seconds Okay. Hi. Uh good evening everyone. Uh thanks for the detailed uh opening remarks. Uh very useful. So I had an industry question uh Karan. So the 39:42 39 minutes, 42 seconds overall outlook on the Ultra HNI business seems like extremely positive from a 3 to 5 year uh time frame. So I'm 39:50 39 minutes, 50 seconds just trying to you know tie in a few statements. One is that uh you know whether the industry you believe will remain in a consolidation mode over the 39:58 39 minutes, 58 seconds next few years and secondly like one would assume that uh for an indust 40:05 40 minutes, 5 seconds uh uh good growth potential um one would kind of assume that it would tend to get more competitive right I think in the 40:12 40 minutes, 12 seconds past you said that uh the ultra HNI space clearly has you know uh place for one or two more players right uh beyond 40:20 40 minutes, 20 seconds the top so I'm just trying to kind of uh connect the dots here to kind of get a perspective on how you're thinking about 40:27 40 minutes, 27 seconds the growth here and the 12 to 15% uh u opening u AUM number uh that you 40:34 40 minutes, 34 seconds mentioned would you believe it has certain risks of uh uh you know once in a while you have uh these situations 40:42 40 minutes, 42 seconds where you know uh like uh one-off attrition or a large attrition which tends to kind of uh uh throw off the 40:49 40 minutes, 49 seconds numbers uh a little bit given that the state of the industry still seems quite uh quite strong right in terms of growth outlook. 40:56 40 minutes, 56 seconds No, great question. So I think um to me honestly I think the the 12 to 15% seems seems doable. I think it's a it's 41:05 41 minutes, 5 seconds something which obviously as the size increases uh it becomes a bigger bigger challenge but I think you know honestly 41:12 41 minutes, 12 seconds we're in early days and you know our own assessment of our market share somewhere between the 8 to 10% number. uh I I I obviously we're not able to estimate it 41:20 41 minutes, 20 seconds to the full best possibility but I think we would be in the 8 to 10% uh when we look at our 4 and a half thousand odd 41:27 41 minutes, 27 seconds families above 10 crores with us. I personally feel uh we have the ability to increase that to 8 to 10,000 families which gets us closer to the 12 to 15% 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds market share and I think if you move towards the 8 to 10,000 families on a bottomup basis I think that 12 to 15% AUM kind of uh comes through. uh do we 41:45 41 minutes, 45 seconds have the uh the middle to the top management layer on the wealth management side to attract these relationship matches. I think the answer is yes and that kind of leads me into uh 41:54 41 minutes, 54 seconds one aspect of the question which you are asking whether you know how consolidated does the does the industry stay. I think that's a real real great question and 42:02 42 minutes, 2 seconds honestly I think it's fair to say that the size of the industry does require at least three four you know potentially can have three four more larger players. 42:11 42 minutes, 11 seconds uh having said that I think obviously it's in like in most industries you know size beget size. So I think in some ways 42:19 42 minutes, 19 seconds uh in some ways u you know it will it will require uh it will require somebody to kind of u you know with have a strong 42:28 42 minutes, 28 seconds commercial mindset put in a large amount of capital as well as potentially kind of attract the right set of people to be 42:35 42 minutes, 35 seconds able to uh to be able to kind of um build it out quicker. I personally am actually um uh a little surprised and you know honestly positively surprised. 42:46 42 minutes, 46 seconds I think the industry continues to remain fairly consolidated. I think uh it stays this way over the next 3 to four years. Will there be a couple of more players? 42:53 42 minutes, 53 seconds I'm sure there will be. uh but I think our own our own uh in terms of comfort brand ability to attract people never 43:01 43 minutes, 1 second felt more comfortable and I I think uh that that gives us a that gives us a a fairly good position and I think I think 43:09 43 minutes, 9 seconds overall a tighter market u helps us consolidate faster and um I I I I think 43:16 43 minutes, 16 seconds while while I hear you on the on the on the attrition point I think that continues to be a risk but honestly I think we've we've with God's grace we 43:25 43 minutes, 25 seconds built a lot of a we built a very diversified business and uh you know our our team if you see today also uh continues to you know I think more than 43:34 43 minutes, 34 seconds 60 65% of team would have spent more than 8 n years with us so I think I think in general uh you know it's a platform where people like to work 43:42 43 minutes, 42 seconds people like to invest their time people like to learn and um I think we balance our time very well between um between learning and and ensuring that uh we're 43:51 43 minutes, 51 seconds able to give the right right value to our clients and if I was to look back at the last 6 months um or rather last April to now and if there's one thing I 44:01 44 minutes, 1 second would you know say is our biggest achievement for the last 12 months is the kind of talent we've attracted on the wealth management side both in you 44:08 44 minutes, 8 seconds know markets like Delhi Bangalore where we had some attrition as well as in Bombay I think we've attracted some super relationship managers in all the 44:16 44 minutes, 16 seconds three in all the three in all the three places and that's really kind of um made us much more resilient than um ever ever 44:23 44 minutes, 23 seconds before and similarly on the uh on the on the investment side. So I I I feel quite uh quite confident and while obviously you know we don't we don't want 44:32 44 minutes, 32 seconds attrition by any margin I think uh we have to be prepared for 2 to 4% attrition every year. 44:39 44 minutes, 39 seconds Thanks Karan. Just one uh more question uh u I think in the past you mentioned that uh typically in a given year almost 44:47 44 minutes, 47 seconds 50% of flows come from uh new client additions. Um so I just wanted to understand like uh in a period where uh 44:55 44 minutes, 55 seconds like the RM competition intensity is is very strong. How does that kind of uh play out with respect to your market 45:02 45 minutes, 2 seconds share between you know flows from existing clients versus new clients? 45:10 45 minutes, 10 seconds I think Abj it's a it's it's it's a challenge always but to be honest I think uh you know we've been beneficiaries. Okay. So I I would say 45:18 45 minutes, 18 seconds net net addition to uh highquality relationship managers for us has been a been a positive. So I'm I'm honestly not complaining in that sense but it's 45:27 45 minutes, 27 seconds obviously a risk. Okay. I think um it's it's eventually a last mile business. So our ability to attract the right set of talent and ensure that we you know it's 45:36 45 minutes, 36 seconds it's I would say it has to it has to follow an order right. So if you need 10,000 families we need 280 300 um super 45:44 45 minutes, 44 seconds bankers. All bankers at any point of time won't have 35 relationships. So you know some of them would not be phenomenally productive. So maybe 45:52 45 minutes, 52 seconds average will be closer to 30. So I near you need 325 330 super bankers. Is it easy to go from 180 200 senior bankers 45:59 45 minutes, 59 seconds to 330? The answer is no. But if there is any platform which can do that and attract those right set of people it's it's really us. And honestly I think uh 46:08 46 minutes, 8 seconds I think we see that we see that ability to do that in the next 12 to 18 months. 46:12 46 minutes, 12 seconds And like I said earlier, I think u our own business model understanding of the business on the ultra high network side uh we we feel very confident to be able 46:20 46 minutes, 20 seconds to move from that 200 to 300 number because we've got operating efficiencies of scale and uh I think there will be 46:27 46 minutes, 27 seconds some challenges along the way. There will be some attrition, some competition, some outsized uh compensation. But honestly, I think as 46:35 46 minutes, 35 seconds long as we stay our path, keep our heads down, I think uh we can move from the 200 to 300, 325 bankers. 46:42 46 minutes, 42 seconds Thanks a lot, Karan. Thank you. 46:46 46 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you. Next in line, we have Gorov Jane. Gorov, kindly unmute yourself and ask your question. 46:56 46 minutes, 56 seconds Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a steady set of numbers. Just two data keeping kind of questions from my side. One is I'm not 47:04 47 minutes, 4 seconds sure if you have already said but uh what is this delta in TBR that we basically saw in two if you can help us understand which particular set line 47:14 47 minutes, 14 seconds item helped in this quarter that will be helpful. And second is since it is first year of completion of BNK post 47:21 47 minutes, 21 seconds acquisition not full completion but major completion. So uh key headline numbers of BNK say operating revenue 47:29 47 minutes, 29 seconds other income and impact that will be really helpful. 47:33 47 minutes, 33 seconds Got it. So I I'll kind of give you some broad numbers. I'll start with the second and then come back to your uh come back to your first uh question. So 47:41 47 minutes, 41 seconds broadly I think uh BNK's numbers have been very very steady for for the last uh for the last 10 months as compared to the year previous to that. I think 47:49 47 minutes, 49 seconds broadly speaking we had uh a 230 to 250 cr uh topline uh 220 to 250 cr topline in the year previous uh we've been 47:58 47 minutes, 58 seconds broadly around that range in fact added around about 6 to 7% largely driven by a early integration on the corporate treasury platform uh where some of our 48:07 48 minutes, 7 seconds large wealth management clients with large corporate treasuries have kind of got introduced to the uh BNK platform and slight market share gain on the um 48:15 48 minutes, 15 seconds on the equity side. uh from a PBD perspective also pretty much in line um uh BNK had a PBD at the point of 48:23 48 minutes, 23 seconds acquisition of approximately 100 105 crores. This year will finish in the region ballpark region of 105 to 110 48:30 48 minutes, 30 seconds crores before any specific acquisition related costs. So overall I think uh those are the those are the broad numbers on the BNK side. So largely 48:38 48 minutes, 38 seconds largely steady year uh potentially an increase of 3 to 4% um u on on on the overall business but we need to remember 48:48 48 minutes, 48 seconds you know our our approvals and so on and so forth for BNK capital to become 361 capital as well as common research and stuff like that's happened only maybe in 48:56 48 minutes, 56 seconds the last 15 to 30 days. Uh so it's it's really integration would kind of hopefully all benefits start coming in um soon enough. Obviously teams, culture 49:06 49 minutes, 6 seconds all is integrated but just ensuring that uh businesses can also kind of get integrated as fast as possible 49:13 49 minutes, 13 seconds on the u on the first u on the first point. Uh sorry I forgot the it was on TV. 49:21 49 minutes, 21 seconds No, no, sorry. It was your advisory AUM. 49:23 49 minutes, 23 seconds What are the heads? Uh, so on largely on the U advisory, I think uh on the net flows approximately 9 to 10,000 uh close 49:32 49 minutes, 32 seconds on net flows. It's a mix largely of u advisory, a little bit in product distribution and largely in on the asset 49:39 49 minutes, 39 seconds management side. So asset management side is uh uh uh is is around about 2 and a half thousand crores. advisories in the 49:47 49 minutes, 47 seconds region ballpark of four and a half four four and a half,000 or 5,000 crores and uh the net amount coming from distribution assets would be the 49:55 49 minutes, 55 seconds balancing amount of two and a half,000 crores in including the lending book. So that's the broad split of 9 and a half,000 crores. Uh on the TBR on the 50:04 50 minutes, 4 seconds delta versus quarter 3 it's largely as I said earlier it's a mix of asset classes. So I think what we've done extremely well on um on Q4 in terms of 50:12 50 minutes, 12 seconds equity in terms of asset classes has been a combination of fixed income uh some bit of reads and invits and 50:19 50 minutes, 19 seconds potentially a couple of transactions on the uh on the high yielding fixed income side. 50:26 50 minutes, 26 seconds Got it. Just one last question Karan we saw some brokers taking some stress on the MTF book. Given the volatility in 50:34 50 minutes, 34 seconds Q4, was there any stress or any thing that you saw in your lending book where you were uncomfortable or was it everything under control in spite of the volatility in bullion and equity? 50:45 50 minutes, 45 seconds So we don't have any margin funding book yet. Uh uh so our margin funding books less than 50 60 crores I think. Uh so we really don't have a margin funding book. 50:55 50 minutes, 55 seconds uh because uh as a broker we really don't do uh uh uh MTF uh on our lending book which is largely a loan against 51:02 51 minutes, 2 seconds shares book which is collateralized at um at two times uh typically on a diversified portfolio. We've not fortunately we've not seen any stress at all. 51:11 51 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Thanks. Thank you. 51:15 51 minutes, 15 seconds Thank you. Next in line we have the panjen goss. The panjan kindly unmute and ask your question. 51:21 51 minutes, 21 seconds Uh hey hi karan good evening. So a few questions from my side. Uh first you know in terms of the incremental clients 51:29 51 minutes, 29 seconds that is that you are onboarding uh on the platform and versus let's say what you were onboarding five to six years back uh you know some color on 51:37 51 minutes, 37 seconds differences in quality of the customer ticket size whe the individuals or family offices. I mean has there been any change in this mix and and in this 51:46 51 minutes, 46 seconds context I mean do you see any differentiation that you need to create on either servicing or products or maybe is there a wallet share division which 51:53 51 minutes, 53 seconds is far higher in these new customers versus let's say the ear customers some color on the customer quality would be uh helpful. Uh the second question uh is 52:02 52 minutes, 2 seconds you know you you kind of uh kind of articulated on the carry income map uh in one of the previous participants questions. uh if you can kind of uh kind 52:11 52 minutes, 11 seconds of give some color on the funds that are in the pipeline for exit for the next two to three years and whether you are 52:18 52 minutes, 18 seconds uh comfortably over the hurdle expectations in those funds and you know if you can just walk through the math uh in a little bit detail I mean that will be really helpful because we don't get 52:27 52 minutes, 27 seconds uh access to some of these uh on the public domain and third would be a data keeping question um you know in terms of 52:34 52 minutes, 34 seconds your ARR assets uh you can if you can kind of split the growth flows for the quarter and full year. 52:42 52 minutes, 42 seconds So gross flows for the uh for the AR active AR assets in the wealth segment and also on the AM basically the gross 52:51 52 minutes, 51 seconds sales versus because we get the net flow net new money number. So got it I okay so that I'll have to just 52:59 52 minutes, 59 seconds depend on Sanjay or Anuman for so I'll just for the gross flows numbers but I can answer the first two questions by the time they can look at the gross 53:07 53 minutes, 7 seconds flows numbers but obviously on the mutual fund side looking at the gross flows won't help because they'll have liquid funds and debt funds and stuff like that but on the autoate side I 53:15 53 minutes, 15 seconds think the gross flows will definitely help so Sanjay maybe you can just pull it out on the side uh on the uh incremental plant on 53:22 53 minutes, 22 seconds platform quality of clients obviously I think it's a great question. I think the type of clients have become much more broader and the depth has also 53:30 53 minutes, 30 seconds increased. Today there's obviously a uh I won't call it a new kind of client but a much more sophisticated client which is the family office. It would be safe 53:38 53 minutes, 38 seconds to say there are 300 350 such family offices across the country who are substantially more sophisticated, who are able to take decisions faster, who 53:46 53 minutes, 46 seconds are able to cut much larger checks and uh most importantly you are willing to participate with us pretty much as 53:53 53 minutes, 53 seconds partners across the entire across the entire platform rather than uh just coming you rather than just kind of 54:00 54 minutes allocating us 100 rupees and say kind of just manage it on a portfolio advisory basis. So that that that that class of clients maybe would have been um would 54:09 54 minutes, 9 seconds have been maybe 40 50 maybe 5 years back. Today definitely that number is close to 400 to 500 odd 400 to 500 clients. Uh outside of that I think 54:18 54 minutes, 18 seconds generally speaking our client base has become slightly on the ultra side has become slightly larger in terms of average AUM. Uh and 54:27 54 minutes, 27 seconds that's largely a function of the fact that it's a portfolio based approach as opposed to a product based approach. So most of our relationship managers while onboarding the clients would talk about 54:35 54 minutes, 35 seconds uh asset allocation, product selection, uh not ensuring more than 25% in a single product, not insuring more than 15% in a single asset manager. So it's a 54:44 54 minutes, 44 seconds much more u richer discussion on the portfolio as opposed to the product and that obviously kind of moves the minimums up slightly more. So from a 54:53 54 minutes, 53 seconds client uh from a client uh segmentation perspective, I think a portfolio based approach as opposed to product based 55:00 55 minutes approach is leading to a a slightly higher ticket uh ticket size. And third, I think there's a much more diversity of clients from a background and geography 55:08 55 minutes, 8 seconds perspective. I think geography is obviously substantially more diverse as compared to the first six seven cities and background also is much more 55:16 55 minutes, 16 seconds diverse. I think it's now fair to say professionals and professional entrepreneurs are nearly 15 to 20% of the um of the client base. Uh and the 55:23 55 minutes, 23 seconds same number used to be 5 to 10%. And you know in in that sense I think u uh you know whether you look at companies which have been started by professionals and 55:31 55 minutes, 31 seconds professionals who own you know anyway number between 2 and a half to 10% plus corporate lawyers plus uh uh plus plus movie stars and you know Bollywood professionals as well as sports people. 55:42 55 minutes, 42 seconds So overall I think the client and and even doctors right. So I think overall the uh length and breadth of professionals have increased diversification in geographies. Uh 55:50 55 minutes, 50 seconds family offices are deep and uh obviously I think uh what we need to work on again maybe one of our weaker areas but we need to work hard on uh getting more 55:59 55 minutes, 59 seconds more participation from domestic institutions and insurance companies uh which have become uh which have become key contributors to u to to uh to al alternative investment funds. 56:11 56 minutes, 11 seconds Uh second obviously I think u uh on on the on the ARR assets have you got the numbers Sanjay broadly? Yeah. Yeah. I've 56:19 56 minutes, 19 seconds got for for for AMC the gross flow for the quarter is around 5200 C uh 5200 and 56:25 56 minutes, 25 seconds for for the full year it is 19,000 as Yeah. So we had actually Yeah. So we had a great quarter on the asset management 56:32 56 minutes, 32 seconds side in terms of flows. It's nearly 5,200 crores. But we've also had three funds on the on the uh on the one one 56:41 56 minutes, 41 seconds large fund on the credit side uh which which came off of maturity which were nearly 15,700 crores. One of our real estate funds came up a maturity which 56:49 56 minutes, 49 seconds was 850 odd crores and I think we had a distribution from one of our uh private equity funds with a 2,21 vintage. So 56:57 56 minutes, 57 seconds that basically resulted in a net outflow of around about 2500 2600 crores which has resulted in the 5,300 crores coming 57:05 57 minutes, 5 seconds down to the 2,300 2,400 cr number and maybe on the carry u bit if you can. 57:15 57 minutes, 15 seconds Yeah, sorry. On the carry basically I think um so I think I I'll give the operating principles and I'll leave it to Sanjay to figure out how to maybe 57:23 57 minutes, 23 seconds potentially uh you know give a list of funds and aum uh date of maturity because it's all there in the public domain. Maybe we can just compile it and 57:31 57 minutes, 31 seconds put it in the data book as one excel document but at an operating philosophy level obviously I think uh we want to we 57:38 57 minutes, 38 seconds in a in a very conservative and simple way to explain it. we typically start looking at carry only once the fund has met the hurdle for the entire life of 57:46 57 minutes, 46 seconds the fund. Okay, so that's really when the carry kind of starts kicking in. So if it's a fiveyear fund or a six-year fund, uh it effectively has to beat the 57:54 57 minutes, 54 seconds carry for the entire time period and only then does the fund become carryable in any way. And once the fund becomes carryable, obviously you know we take a 58:01 58 minutes, 1 second slight bit of a discount in terms of market values and stuff like that and then start accounting for it. So at the simplest level uh you know it's not as 58:08 58 minutes, 8 seconds if we are measuring the fund after one year and it has to meet the hurdle after one year and then we start accounting for carry. It has to meet the hurdle for the entire lifetime value lifetime of 58:17 58 minutes, 17 seconds the fund and only then it kind of comes into uh uh into carry. So I would say you know outside of large market variations uh the carry which which 58:25 58 minutes, 25 seconds we're carrying is quite um uh quite uh quite conservative and within within range in terms of an overall fund list 58:32 58 minutes, 32 seconds and broad maturity dates and so on and so forth. And maybe just a num just a comment whether the fund is a carry fund 58:40 58 minutes, 40 seconds or a fixed fee fund. Maybe Sanjay can put it up on Excel. 58:45 58 minutes, 45 seconds Uh sure Karan if I can just chip in one small question on the UBS bit where you gave some color. um you know in terms of 58:52 58 minutes, 52 seconds referrals uh how has been the traction any initial data point and also uh your product on UBSS AMC's platform as a new 59:00 59 minutes AMC product on their platform uh when can we expect some things on those lines uh that's so I think I think to be honest that's 59:07 59 minutes, 7 seconds been slightly slower it's more more not not from a not from a desire to do it I think uh both of us want to do it as 59:14 59 minutes, 14 seconds fast as possible I think just from a regulatory approval process both in gift and as well as on the UBS platform. I think it's taken slightly longer. Uh but 59:23 59 minutes, 23 seconds hopefully we'll see it happen over the next quarter or so. 59:28 59 minutes, 28 seconds Got it. Uh thank you and all the thank you. Thank you. 59:30 59 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you. Next in line uh uh in the interest of time request you to kindly restrict yourself to not more than two questions. Next in line we have Sedar. 59:38 59 minutes, 38 seconds Sadhar kindly unmute yourself and ask your question. 59:42 59 minutes, 42 seconds Hi thanks for the opportunity. Uh few questions from my end. uh on a quarteronquarter basis we've seen net 59:51 59 minutes, 51 seconds flows sort of coming down which say in another case uh with obviously a more retail brokerage have remained more or 59:59 59 minutes, 59 seconds less steady. So uh would you say that's been more attritionled or or uh you know clients pulling out money or is it more 1:00:07 1 hour, 7 seconds avoidance of deployment given the volatile situation? Uh that was question number one. uh question number two which 1:00:14 1 hour, 14 seconds you've sort of spoken about the whole DP DPMS uh uh flows right on the other hand there is a sharp rise in the uh 1:00:23 1 hour, 23 seconds retentions both on the wealth and the asset management side specifically for the discretionary PMS right um is that 1:00:31 1 hour, 31 seconds is that more a function of new money coming in uh at higher higher retentions 1:00:38 1 hour, 38 seconds or is it more you know the older sort of uh lower priced uh AUM going out and how 1:00:46 1 hour, 46 seconds is you how are you seeing this uh from an outpricing list uh risk right given that especially on the asset management 1:00:53 1 hour, 53 seconds side obviously there is that competitive intensity um and the third question was uh if if you could give us some color on 1:01:01 1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second the distribution assets uh where where the net flow is is a negative number but 1:01:08 1 hour, 1 minute, 8 seconds how much of that is the net flow from UHNI given that HNI 1:01:16 1 hour, 1 minute, 16 seconds would obviously have net positive cash flows. So distribution assets from UHNIS what's the net negative net flow? Uh yeah these were my three questions. 1:01:27 1 hour, 1 minute, 27 seconds Go ahead. Do you want to just take the next question also and then I'll answer together. Yeah. 1:01:32 1 hour, 1 minute, 32 seconds Uh yeah one more question you said. 1:01:35 1 hour, 1 minute, 35 seconds We have Nidesh on the line. Nidesh you'll have to unmute yourself and ask your question then we can just take it together. 1:01:43 1 hour, 1 minute, 43 seconds Uh thanks for the opportunity. I have two question. One is uh if you can share the breakup of PBI income in terms of listed equity, understood equity, 1:01:50 1 hour, 1 minute, 50 seconds institutional equity, debt and others for the quarter. Second is if I look at uh team leader count and uh RM count uh 1:01:59 1 hour, 1 minute, 59 seconds in last three years the team leader count is broadly stable. uh and uh I think in the RM count also there would 1:02:07 1 hour, 2 minutes, 7 seconds have been addition on the HNI team. So UHNI team RM count may be stable. So uh though our client base has gone up. So 1:02:15 1 hour, 2 minutes, 15 seconds how are we managing uh span of each uh team leader and how we plan to let's say scale the team leader from a next 3 to 1:02:23 1 hour, 2 minutes, 23 seconds five year perspective uh given that uh there is intense competition and last three years also the count has been broadly flat. Yeah, these are the two questions. 1:02:33 1 hour, 2 minutes, 33 seconds Got it. So I think uh I'll start with the um with the with the questions earlier. So I think broadly speaking on the AR asset side I think you know very 1:02:42 1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds tough to on the net flow side very you know as I've indicated before very tough to look at on a Q on Q basis. Uh you know but typically we have a good site 1:02:50 1 hour, 2 minutes, 50 seconds on a yearly basis. Um obviously I think not not strictly comparable to a to a brokerage platform but I think on a 1:02:57 1 hour, 2 minutes, 57 seconds yearly basis with some variations on a Q1Q basis I think we hope to be around the 10 to 12 to 14% kind of range and uh 1:03:06 1 hour, 3 minutes, 6 seconds we've typically seen quarters uh have a little bit of a variation there obviously onboarding cycles are different clients take sometimes a little bit longer to kind of onboard so 1:03:14 1 hour, 3 minutes, 14 seconds typically kind of sometimes businesses passes on from one quarter to the other in terms of uh in terms of quarterly flows. So really nothing significant 1:03:22 1 hour, 3 minutes, 22 seconds between Q3 Q4 in terms of in terms of decline and I wouldn't read too much into a Q2 to Q3 increase in flows also 1:03:30 1 hour, 3 minutes, 30 seconds it's more or less a it's a quarterly deviation as opposed to a a trend there. 1:03:36 1 hour, 3 minutes, 36 seconds The DPMS retention again there's no trend there. I think Q4 typically has a has a bit of a profit share and that 1:03:44 1 hour, 3 minutes, 44 seconds kind of has led to a little bloated amount of retentions on a very very small base. So again on the discretionary PMS side pretty much 1:03:51 1 hour, 3 minutes, 51 seconds within the standards and retentions continue to remain within the range and I think it gets kind of uniform on a yearly basis as opposed to 1:03:59 1 hour, 3 minutes, 59 seconds just looking at uh uh Q4 itself. uh largely distribution assets uh uh is not really a large function of negative net flows. It's largely a little bit of an 1:04:08 1 hour, 4 minutes, 8 seconds extent of uh marktomarket which obviously resulted in a lower slightly lower trail income as compared to as 1:04:15 1 hour, 4 minutes, 15 seconds compared to last quarter. Uh on the TBR income split uh you know I'll kind of give a broader level split which which is what we disclose. I think uh broadly 1:04:23 1 hour, 4 minutes, 23 seconds around about 30 35% give or take 60 to 80 crores comes from largely um a combination of u listed and listed 1:04:31 1 hour, 4 minutes, 31 seconds related equity half of that largely coming from private um private equity investment banking M&A activities and around about a third comes from largely 1:04:40 1 hour, 4 minutes, 40 seconds fixed income and u fixed income yield plus and real estate so it's it's broadly a third a third a third uh between u uh between these uh between 1:04:48 1 hour, 4 minutes, 48 seconds these three asset classes uh on the team leader RM count Um it's a great question. I think uh very rightly pointed out u I think we've been at 75 1:04:57 1 hour, 4 minutes, 57 seconds 80 or 70 to 75 senior leaders u uh uh at at at scale over the last uh over the 1:05:04 1 hour, 5 minutes, 4 seconds last three odd years where we've really I think uh improved is our ratio to senior leaders to uh to relationship managers. I think uh on the ultra 1:05:13 1 hour, 5 minutes, 13 seconds network side we want to kind of have our minimum recruitment benchmark at what we call as the partner equivalent. So effectively you should have had at least 1:05:20 1 hour, 5 minutes, 20 seconds six to seven or maybe eight years of experience in a in a retail prior to setup. And uh that's really where uh that becomes in some senses our uh our 1:05:29 1 hour, 5 minutes, 29 seconds entry level uh into the ultra high net worth business. And I think that's that's really where I think we've we've kind of seen uh a a good change in mix. 1:05:38 1 hour, 5 minutes, 38 seconds I would say a healthy change in mix. 1:05:40 1 hour, 5 minutes, 40 seconds We've been able to optimize the number uh and make it a much more productive number as compared to what we had earlier. But not only that, our average 1:05:48 1 hour, 5 minutes, 48 seconds talent pool on the partner base is substantially better than what we had 5 years back. So it's both it's both a quality improvement as well as a 1:05:55 1 hour, 5 minutes, 55 seconds quantity optimization. And I think with a quality improvement, there's automatic uh automatic adjustment in span of control. Uh so we're very happy with 1:06:03 1 hour, 6 minutes, 3 seconds where we are today. Having said that, obviously we need to move that 75 number as I said earlier to potentially 120 130 1:06:10 1 hour, 6 minutes, 10 seconds and potentially improve the 110 120 partner level to around about 240. and effectively take our current count of 180 1902 to 330 340. 1:06:23 1 hour, 6 minutes, 23 seconds What is the count of RMS in the HNI segment as of March on the on the closing basis 6364? 1:06:30 1 hour, 6 minutes, 30 seconds Yeah, sure. 1:06:32 1 hour, 6 minutes, 32 seconds Thank you. Karan just to follow up on the uh the net the DPMS net flows maybe 1:06:38 1 hour, 6 minutes, 38 seconds I'm reading this wrong but uh from from what uh it shows here on the wealth side 1:06:46 1 hour, 6 minutes, 46 seconds the DPMS has a net negative net flow of uh 212 crores for distribution assets. 1:06:54 1 hour, 6 minutes, 54 seconds Uh so is that including the MTM or is that net negative flows net flows without MTM? So, so then how 1:07:04 1 hour, 7 minutes, 4 seconds much of that would be net negative for UHNI and how much of it would be I'm assuming HNI is obviously positive because there' be a very small base. 1:07:15 1 hour, 7 minutes, 15 seconds Well, largely 212 crores would be after HNI only. 1:07:20 1 hour, 7 minutes, 20 seconds It's corporate treasuries which has contributed to the negative number this quarter. Got it. Thank you. 1:07:27 1 hour, 7 minutes, 27 seconds Thank you. I think uh that's all we have time for today ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us this morning. 1:07:32 1 hour, 7 minutes, 32 seconds Thank you. Thank you everybody. Thanks for all all the effort. Thank you. Thank you.