360 ONE WAM LIMITED — Q3 FY26

360 One Wam Ltd Q3 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0EqO-w49tc Published: 3 months ago

0:05 5 seconds Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to 361 VA WAM earnings call for Q3 FY26. 0:12 12 seconds As a reminder, all participant lines will be on listenonly mode. In case you wish to ask any questions or require 0:19 19 seconds assistance during the conference, kindly signal the host by tapping on the raised hand icon. Please note this conference 0:27 27 seconds is being recorded. On the call today we have with us Mr. Karan Bhagat MD and CEO, Mr. Yatan Sha CEO of the wealth 0:37 37 seconds business, Mr. Anaman Maheshwari, Chief Operating Officer and Mr. Sanjay Vadwa 0:43 43 seconds CFO. I now hand it over to Sanjay Vadwa to take this conference ahead. Thank you. 0:49 49 seconds Thank you Anil. Uh very good evening to all the participants. uh over the past year uh uh Indian capital markets uh 0:57 57 seconds navigated a period of heightened volatility shaped by evolving geopolitical dynamics and intermittent bouts of market consolidation. 1:06 1 minute, 6 seconds Encouragingly, even in such challenging market environment, the asset and wealth management ecosystem continued to demonstrate resilience with healthy 1:15 1 minute, 15 seconds inflows driven by record levels of mutual fund SIP contributions, sustained activity in terms of monetization events 1:22 1 minute, 22 seconds and a growing investor preference for alternate asset classes. Coming to our business, our total AR aum increased to 1:30 1 minute, 30 seconds 3A7,96 crores up 28% yearonear with wealth AR aum at 218,957 1:39 1 minute, 39 seconds crores and asset management arum at 98,949 crores. This growth was supposed support 1:46 1 minute, 46 seconds supported by strong net flows at 14,758 crores in Q3 FI26 and rupes 46,890 1:55 1 minute, 55 seconds crores for 9 months FY26. We expect this momentum to sustain as our newly onboarded highquality teams continue to 2:03 2 minutes, 3 seconds mature and achieve scale in asset management. Flows remain firmly on track by the demand across funds spanning all 2:11 2 minutes, 11 seconds asset classes. The asset management business saw good mobilizations during the quarter with over 2,000 crores raised in our real asset strategy. 2,500 2:20 2 minutes, 20 seconds crores of commitments in our private credit strategy and 2,000 crores raised in our mid and small cap focused listed 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds strategy. Our ER revenue in the quarter grew 45.4% year-onear at rupes 619 crores led by strong asset growth as 2:36 2 minutes, 36 seconds well as improved retentions. Our AR revenue as a percentage of total revenue from operations stood at 77%. ARR 2:43 2 minutes, 43 seconds retention remained strong at 81 basis points. Incremental carry revenue during the quarter contributed about approximately six basis points during 2:51 2 minutes, 51 seconds the quarter and the retentions are expected to normalize in the uh quarters to come. Transaction and broking revenues rose by 4.2% to 186 crores as 3:01 3 minutes, 1 second stated in our previous quarter. Revenue from institutional equities business of BNK which is now being rebranded to 361 capital is being classified as TBR. This 3:10 3 minutes, 10 seconds business incubation meaningfully enhances the sustainability of TBR revenues and is expected to moderate the periodic volatility experienced in the 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds past thereby improving the overall quality of predictability of earnings. 3:23 3 minutes, 23 seconds Total revenue increased by 21.8% 8% to 826 crores driven by strong growth in both wealth and asset verticles partially offset by lower other income. 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds Total costs were flat as compared to previous quarter at 399 crores with corresponding cost to income ratio at 48.3%. 3:43 3 minutes, 43 seconds This is after factoring the estimated impact of the new labor code which in our case was not very material at rupees 3:50 3 minutes, 50 seconds 72 crores. We expect gradual improvement in this CI metric for the consolidated business over the coming quarters as we 3:57 3 minutes, 57 seconds scale up and drive synergies from strategic initiatives as well as the incoming teams in the well UHNI segment. 4:04 4 minutes, 4 seconds We are very happy to report that the company recorded its highest ever quarterly PAT at 331 crores an increase 4:11 4 minutes, 11 seconds of 20.3% yearonear. Tangible ROE uh rose uh to 21% as against 20.4% 4% in the 4:20 4 minutes, 20 seconds previous quarter. This ratio is expected to improve in the coming quarters as additional capital deployed in our lending and alternate businesses in FI25 4:28 4 minutes, 28 seconds begins to reflect in the overall earnings. With that, I would like to hand over to Anuman to cover key business and strategic highlights. 4:41 4 minutes, 41 seconds Thanks Sanjay. Uh good evening everyone. 4:45 4 minutes, 45 seconds Building on Sanjay's thoughts on our overall uh business performance, I would like to begin with some comments on our core businesses. Our 9th month net flow 4:54 4 minutes, 54 seconds stood at approximately Rs 47,000 crores with robust organic flows at over Rs 5:02 5 minutes, 2 seconds 26,000 crores having already equaled our full year 2025 numbers. 5:09 5 minutes, 9 seconds Despite attrition related outflows that we've spoken about earlier in H1, we've delivered strong organic net flows of 5:16 5 minutes, 16 seconds rupees 19,000 crores or 12% of our opening arrum in wealth management in this 9-month period. The strong 5:25 5 minutes, 25 seconds performance reflects the fundamental strength of our franchise, the differentiated platform proposition and 5:32 5 minutes, 32 seconds products and most importantly the continued ability to attract senior talent across all our key geographies. 5:41 5 minutes, 41 seconds The total net flows and wealth stands at approximately rupees 40,000 crores with the flows being spread across the different regions. 5:50 5 minutes, 50 seconds Within asset management, we continue to witness strong flows across asset classes. Net flows of over 4,400 crores 5:59 5 minutes, 59 seconds for this quarter were driven by new funds launched as well as inflows in existing strategies in the listed 6:06 6 minutes, 6 seconds unlisted uh credit and real estate space. While we maintain our leadership on advising global institutions on 6:14 6 minutes, 14 seconds listed equities, we are excited to see increased interest and engagement from institutions seeking exposure to India's 6:22 6 minutes, 22 seconds private markets. In this regard, we are happy to state that we have our first mandate from a global institution in the private equity vertical in quarter 3. 6:33 6 minutes, 33 seconds Leveraging our established alternative investment capabilities, we are well positioned to capitalize on such opportunities in the future. While in 6:42 6 minutes, 42 seconds parallel, we are continue to deepen our distribution footprint in the listed space with a particular focus on expanding reach through the MFD channel. 6:52 6 minutes, 52 seconds Looking ahead, visibility on multiple fund launches in the AIF and SIF segments along with ongoing discussions around institutional mandates across 7:00 7 minutes strategies reinforces our confidence in the strength and durability of the overall pipeline. 7:07 7 minutes, 7 seconds A quick update on the key strategic initiatives starting with UBS. I'm pleased to announce that the signing of our comprehensive global collaboration 7:16 7 minutes, 16 seconds framework for wealth was completed in November of last year. We are already witnessing encouraging early traction on 7:23 7 minutes, 23 seconds crossber client referrals and remain excited about emerging synergies in asset management as well as other areas. 7:31 7 minutes, 31 seconds With strong leadership commitment from both organizations, we are well positioned to unlock the potential of this partnership and will continue to 7:38 7 minutes, 38 seconds update on the progress over the next few quarters. 7:42 7 minutes, 42 seconds Secondly, on the HNI segment, our conviction on the potential of that business segment continues to strengthen 7:50 7 minutes, 50 seconds as we gain momentum in client additions as well as flows. With over 60 RMS across 12 locations, we are now well 7:57 7 minutes, 57 seconds poised to accelerate the scaling up and build this segment as a v vital feeder pipeline as well for our UHNI proposition. 8:07 8 minutes, 7 seconds Thirdly, ET money is undergoing a transition from a transaction-led investing app to a comprehensive wealth 8:15 8 minutes, 15 seconds platform for the affluent segment with monetization embedded at every stage by combining choice-led engagement models 8:24 8 minutes, 24 seconds and expanding product suite which aligns with our core proposition and technology enabled human advice. ET money is 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds continuing to build a differentiated yet scalable mode which we're quite excited by. 8:40 8 minutes, 40 seconds And lastly, we are pleased to share that BNK securities is now rebranded as 361 Capital integrating corporate and 8:48 8 minutes, 48 seconds institutional equities as core capabilities. This integration not only expands our capital markets footprint but reinforces our positioning as one of 8:57 8 minutes, 57 seconds India's most comprehensive financial services platform spanning wealth management, asset management, alternates, lending, enhanced 9:05 9 minutes, 5 seconds institutional and capital market capabilities as well as superior global access. Overall, we remain focused on 9:13 9 minutes, 13 seconds consolidating our multiple business lines to deliver a full stack financial services offering aimed at further strengthening our leadership position with our core clients. 9:25 9 minutes, 25 seconds At 361, technology remains a critical investment priority spanning internal operations, cyber security, and client-f 9:32 9 minutes, 32 seconds facing innovation. We are advancing AI powered pilots across key functions to drive efficiency gains and informed 9:40 9 minutes, 40 seconds decision making positioning ourselves to expand these capabilities as they further mature. 9:48 9 minutes, 48 seconds Lastly, I would like to thank our clients and stakeholders for their continued trust and confidence which has been integral to our journey and 9:55 9 minutes, 55 seconds progress. And with that, I'd like to hand it over to Karan for his thoughts. 10:07 10 minutes, 7 seconds Thank you ma'am. Thank you Sanjay. Thank you Anuan and thank you for everybody for joining in on a holiday. Uh let me start off by wishing everybody a happy 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds new year. Um I want to spend uh two two to three minutes quickly on broadly the last 9 months and our continued focus 10:23 10 minutes, 23 seconds areas for the next 12 months to around about 3 odd years and post that you know take a pause and take questions from 10:30 10 minutes, 30 seconds there. So I think as we look forward and look at the back I think we continue to be super super positive on the business 10:38 10 minutes, 38 seconds lines we spent the last 15 16 17 years uh going deeper and deeper into over the last 17 years I think we've spent a lot 10:46 10 minutes, 46 seconds of time and energy on building two critical businesses the ultra high net worth management business and second is the alternates business over the last 8 10:53 10 minutes, 53 seconds to nine years we continue to remain extremely buoyant about those two businesses our brand recall as well as our acceptability ility among clients 11:01 11 minutes, 1 second above 50 crores continues to remain at the highest. Our proposition has become deeper and deeper. Uh our ability to 11:09 11 minutes, 9 seconds provide clients advice across multiple asset classes uh provide solutions across uh their entire asset portfolio. 11:17 11 minutes, 17 seconds Our ability to work and sit with them and build their investment policy statements for their entire life cycle continues to be the strongest ever. uh 11:25 11 minutes, 25 seconds both monetizations on the listed side, unlisted side, uh sometimes even change of wealth manager on the on the on the ground without liquidity events. All of 11:33 11 minutes, 33 seconds them continue to be fairly uh fairly active active programs for us. And over the last quarter to the last 9 months, 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds one of the most active things for us has been the ability to add new clients and relationships. And it's fair to say over the last three and a half four years we 11:50 11 minutes, 50 seconds more or less doubled our entire maybe two and a half times our entire client base which we kind of accumulated 11:57 11 minutes, 57 seconds over the last uh 12 to 13 years preceding the last 3 to four years. The second portion of business which we are really really kind of excited about 12:06 12 minutes, 6 seconds continues to be the alternance business there. We're really thankful to the to the regulator and SEBI has taken a lot 12:12 12 minutes, 12 seconds of proactive steps where we've seen at least three very three excellent kind of 12:20 12 minutes, 20 seconds new initiatives on the AIF side. One clearly the introduction of of of the 12:27 12 minutes, 27 seconds co-investment vehicles. Second is the introduction of large value funds being introduced from reduced from 75 crores 12:34 12 minutes, 34 seconds to 25 crores. And thirdly, um, you know, the introduction of AI investors on the on the alternative investment fund side 12:42 12 minutes, 42 seconds gives us a lot of maneuverability and flexibility to be able to kind of keep building our AI business across multiple 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds strategies. Over the last eight odd years, we built four clear strategies on the um on the on the AF side. um you 12:56 12 minutes, 56 seconds know and on the real asset side on the unlisted side preipo as well as on the um on on recently on the um listed side 13:05 13 minutes, 5 seconds with the pipe fund. So I think uh we continue to remain very very very buoyant about the alternate space and with the new regulations both on the LVF 13:13 13 minutes, 13 seconds side as well as on the co-investment vehicle side it gives us a lot of additional uh ammunition to be able to 13:20 13 minutes, 20 seconds really uh take advantage of uh the 50,000 crores we've already kind of built in the space over the last 7 to 8 years. Performance there continues to be 13:29 13 minutes, 29 seconds fairly robust. Um I think 95% of our funds are in the in the in the top uh in are rated 90 percentile and above from a 13:37 13 minutes, 37 seconds performance perspective and uh most of our old clients continue to kind of come into the new schemes as as the older schemes continue to continue to mature. 13:46 13 minutes, 46 seconds While we remain extremely excited about these two businesses uh along with our listed asset management business, we're eagerly looking forward to the new 13:54 13 minutes, 54 seconds businesses we are uh we are we are squarely excited about on BNK. Uh the first first fruits of our of our of our 14:02 14 minutes, 2 seconds merger together will come will come through on the equity brokerage side over the next 12 odd months. uh we definitely would see uh we definitely 14:10 14 minutes, 10 seconds see a 25 30% increase on our high net worth equity brokerage as we've typically seen over the last four to 5 years there we work very there we are 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds working very hard to ensure that the research product reaches our ultra high net worth clients and family offices clients in the right way and uh 14:26 14 minutes, 26 seconds effectively while they've been doing wealth management with us for the longest time we're able to kind of get them to also looking at equity advice on 14:35 14 minutes, 35 seconds our platform Along with that obviously over the next 6 to 12 months we'll build out good equities and a banking practice. Most of 14:44 14 minutes, 44 seconds that would come in the second half of the next calendar year. Uh but you know we're early days of attracting talent and you know it's it's really heart it's 14:52 14 minutes, 52 seconds is really heartwarming to meet talent and we feel encouraged uh that we're seeing a lot of people who are who are aspirationally looking at building the 15:01 15 minutes, 1 second business along with us over the next 12 to 18 months. uh on the on the segment side I think obviously on the ultra high 15:08 15 minutes, 8 seconds net side we've been fairly uh fairly positive we want to extend it to the midsegment between the 5 to 50 crores 15:15 15 minutes, 15 seconds and that's something which we are working very hard to build on the on the reserve side uh happy to say that business started off with less than 400 15:22 15 minutes, 22 seconds 500 crores of AUM at the beginning of uh the current financial year in a very steady format it's grown to around about 3,000 crores plus u we bu we kept the 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds retention strong at 110 basis points in that business. Uh building it in a very in a very measured manner, ensuring that 15:38 15 minutes, 38 seconds we get the uh building pillars of the business right. Uh we've now got close to 58 relationship managers on that business and we've got net new flows of 15:47 15 minutes, 47 seconds nearly 2,2,200 for the for the um financial year from that business. ET money is a business 15:54 15 minutes, 54 seconds we'll still kind of take a little bit longer 3 to 6 months to kind of discover the exact monetization model. But what gives us a lot of confidence there is 16:02 16 minutes, 2 seconds both brand recall as well as engagement on the platform continues to be at at historic highs. Uh outside of these two 16:11 16 minutes, 11 seconds uh obviously there's a fair degree of excitement in um in the ability of uh building the right inward platform from Gib City. I think there are a lot of lot 16:19 16 minutes, 19 seconds of institutions across the world interested in um interested in being able to understand institutions as well as family offices and are able to in the 16:27 16 minutes, 27 seconds ability to understand how to access um India through the uh through the gift city. Uh overall, you know, if I just kind of combine these business lines 16:36 16 minutes, 36 seconds together with our client segments, I think we have a large play across multiple asset classes. Um and it's not restricted only to listed equity. We've 16:44 16 minutes, 44 seconds got a very very significant opportunity to be able to play on listed equity, unlisted equity, real assets including REITs, invit you know yield based 16:53 16 minutes, 53 seconds assets, uh real estate, u fixed income, uh you know performing bonds, AAA credit, uh sometimes you know structured 17:00 17 minutes credit, um and you know all of these things put together kind of and and and and the entire global platform. So all put together is kind of given us a a 17:09 17 minutes, 9 seconds fairly fairly wide wide wide platform to play with and it's kind of isolated us with a little bit of sensitivity to the 17:18 17 minutes, 18 seconds capital markets also because we're able to kind of tug along uh in our business lines across multiple asset classes. So I think very focused business lines, 17:26 17 minutes, 26 seconds multiple asset classes and what we really now want to kind of and multiple segments. What we now want to kind of expand is to multiple geographies. I 17:34 17 minutes, 34 seconds think we've been again um done extremely well in phase one and kind of building out Bombay, Delhi, Bangalore, Chennai, 17:41 17 minutes, 41 seconds Puna and Kolkata. Over the phase, second phase over the last five six years we've built out the next 10 cities, Hyderabad, 17:48 17 minutes, 48 seconds um Hyderabad, Rajot, um Indor, Bhavnadar and so on and 17:56 17 minutes, 56 seconds so forth. We've kind of really focused hard on building out to uh to those those regions. uh I think today honestly 18:03 18 minutes, 3 seconds uh if I can think of u another 10 cities uh including places like Dubai, Singapore uh it's a big big market. Uh so fourth obviously we have to kind of 18:12 18 minutes, 12 seconds ensure that we are able to build uh build a a much more significant geographical um uh presence in keeping and kind of ensuring that these four 18:20 18 minutes, 20 seconds things which is basically asset classes, business lines, segments and geographies we are able to go deeper and deeper. two things we'll have to constantly ensure 18:28 18 minutes, 28 seconds uh and that that that gives me the maximum these two things give me the maximum amount of confidence. First is obviously the platform has to be super robust and has to be able to offer the 18:37 18 minutes, 37 seconds right set of solutions to the client. We worked very very hard over the last 17 years to ensure that our platform is very robust and we are able to meet 18:46 18 minutes, 46 seconds every need of the client whether it's on the advisory side whether it's on the planning side whether it's on the lending side and whether it's on the 18:53 18 minutes, 53 seconds brokerage side and uh we're proud to say today we have a fairly fully aligned platform which is able to meet all the needs of the client and second obviously 19:02 19 minutes, 2 seconds we can't compromise on the depth of of talent and uh that's something which we've kind of worked very hard on I think from pretty much from 2008 as 19:10 19 minutes, 10 seconds professional entrepreneurs. We shared shared our rewards in a very very proportionate way. Uh which has led us 19:16 19 minutes, 16 seconds to having a very very deep uh deep deep uh bench of talent. And um as we 19:23 19 minutes, 23 seconds continue to grow, we are able to attract phenomenal amount of talent also. And um you know as as we face as we faced a little bit of attrition over the last 12 19:31 19 minutes, 31 seconds to 24 months, our own ability to add a fresh set of legs and an equally enthusiastic and capable set of legs in 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds uh in all our in in in locations as Delhi and Bangalore has really kind of given us a lot of confidence uh to be 19:46 19 minutes, 46 seconds able to kind of invest deeper and keep growing larger and most importantly uh I think you know the depth of talent gives 19:54 19 minutes, 54 seconds us a lot of confidence. uh I feel much much more confident as a as a as a professional entrepreneur compared to 10 to 12 years back where uh you know 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds effectively we used to hear things like you know there are only 400 500 people with similar talent across the industry. 20:09 20 minutes, 9 seconds I think today that number across businesses is a much larger number and uh it's it's it's something which you know we we can kind of really invest 20:17 20 minutes, 17 seconds with a lot of a lot of confidence uh saying we will have the right talent to back our to back our aspirations. So all 20:24 20 minutes, 24 seconds put together I think four four clear clear strong business lines. Uh want to kind of build ourselves um mostly on the 20:33 20 minutes, 33 seconds in in in a very very very large way on the ultra high network segment. Uh ensure that we do the right things with the different segments uh expand 20:41 20 minutes, 41 seconds ourselves to different geographies and keep our talent as well as our platform as u as strong as possible and uh a culmination of all of those things will 20:49 20 minutes, 49 seconds hopefully kind of allow us to continue growing in the right direction. Thank you. 20:56 20 minutes, 56 seconds So we'll just open it up to questions please. 20:58 20 minutes, 58 seconds Sure. Sure. Thank you Karan. To ask your question kindly click on the raise hand icon. First in line we have Mohit Mangal. Mohit kindly unmute yourself and ask your question. 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds Yeah. Am I audible? Yes go ahead please. 21:11 21 minutes, 11 seconds Uh yeah. Uh thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Uh so I've got few questions starting off with we have a very good uh 21:19 21 minutes, 19 seconds net flow this quarter. So just couple of sub questions into that. Uh has the growth come from the increasing the 21:26 21 minutes, 26 seconds wallet size of existing clients or alo the newer clients who are putting in more flows and secondly how do you see uh financial year 27 now that financial year 26 is on a very solid base. 21:39 21 minutes, 39 seconds I think what thanks thanks um thanks for the thanks for the encouragement and I think on net flows honestly I think it's a culmination of many things. Uh it's a 21:47 21 minutes, 47 seconds lot of things kind of coming together. I think um after many quarters we've had a very strong net flow number even on the asset management business close to 5,000 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds crores and uh you know we've kind of uh to be honest we've had a good gross flow number for the last three four quarters uh but it's just that our our 22:04 22 minutes, 4 seconds redemptions or not our redemptions but rather our distributions from our first PIP fund more or less we got kind of fully paid those funds out not more or 22:12 22 minutes, 12 seconds less we've actually fully paid those funds out last quarter uh so in that sense uh you know the net flow number on the asset management business at 4 and a 22:20 22 minutes, 20 seconds half 5,000 crores looks very very very uh very strong. I don't see it as a one time. I think we've got a lot of new products on the annual so feel fairly 22:29 22 minutes, 29 seconds fairly confident about it. Uh on the on the wealth management side it's a combination like you rightly said of enhancement of wallet share as well as 22:38 22 minutes, 38 seconds new clients kind of coming in. I think new clients obviously add to the net flow from a revenue perspective kind of come into come into play only over the 22:46 22 minutes, 46 seconds last over the next three to six odd and three odd three to six months as a part of the passive outflow passive uh AUM which is which comes in kind of moves 22:55 22 minutes, 55 seconds into active AUM over next 3 to 6 months but overall I would I would say you know on the on the asset management side uh 23:02 23 minutes, 2 seconds it's 4 and a half 5,000 crores the rest of the flows are largely a combination of increase in wallet share as well as 23:10 23 minutes, 10 seconds um as well as new money coming in again that's a ratio of around about 50 50 60 40 understood so any any revised upward 23:18 23 minutes, 18 seconds guidance for financial year 27 you know I think uh to be honest um guidance is kind of automatically 23:26 23 minutes, 26 seconds uh revised upwards every year because now I'm just going back to my old old model that we need to grow our AUM by 22 23:36 23 minutes, 36 seconds to 24% uh and assuming a 10 odd% % uh kind of marktomarket on a steady basis 23:42 23 minutes, 42 seconds across all asset classes alternates listed equity uh we've obviously averaged higher than that but assuming a 9 to 10% we need to do uh you know 12 to 23:52 23 minutes, 52 seconds 13% of uh opening aum as net flows so I think as the opening aum and closing amum there's a large gap uh so obviously 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second the next year target automatically becomes 12% of the closing aum so to that extent aspirationally you know we 24:08 24 minutes, 8 seconds would always want to get net flows in the region of 10 to 12% of our closing aum. So in some senses our uh our 24:17 24 minutes, 17 seconds guideline our our kind of uh guidance is not changing in percentage terms but in absolute terms obviously we need to work much harder to get to that 12% net flows. 24:26 24 minutes, 26 seconds Understood. My next question is toward the TBR revenue. So if I look at the TBR revenue even excluding BNK they have been very very solid. So can you just uh 24:34 24 minutes, 34 seconds you know share some reasons for this kind of stronger growth are there? 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds So so TBR revenue is a very interesting line item. I think while they are strong if you see you know on a Q1 Q basis and you know it's it's kind of come off a 24:47 24 minutes, 47 seconds bit and uh you sequentially on a year-on-year basis also it's not really kind of grown dramatically. I think we've worked really hard. um we've kind 24:55 24 minutes, 55 seconds of more or less now I would say uh TBR revenue coming out of pure financial uh products in terms of managed accounts 25:04 25 minutes, 4 seconds is practically zero right because we are hardly booking any upfront from uh from uh there's no upfront in mutual funds AFS are practically you know really 25:12 25 minutes, 12 seconds really small amount so the the rest of the TBR revenue which is really left is largely largely in some ways brokerage 25:20 25 minutes, 20 seconds and syndication right so the good thing there obviously is we've got brokerage age and syndication across multiple asset classes. So if you look at 25:27 25 minutes, 27 seconds brokerage and syndication today we've got nearly six or seven lines on which we are booking income. the first line which is obviously there is the 25:35 25 minutes, 35 seconds secondary secondary uh brokerage coming on on on stocks right so there obviously now we're kind of covering two segments 25:42 25 minutes, 42 seconds we're covering institutional uh the institutional segment and the family office segment through the uh through the BNK transaction and we're servicing 25:50 25 minutes, 50 seconds the and we are covering the high net worth uh individuals on the second side so I think those three things put together today aggregate to around a 60 25:57 25 minutes, 57 seconds to 70 cr kind of uh uh equity brokerage number on a 60 odd crores 60 65 cr equity brokerage number on a on a 26:05 26 minutes, 5 seconds quarterly basis. The remaining 11520 crores you've got unlisted equities, you've got fixed income and bonds, you've got um real estate, you've got um 26:14 26 minutes, 14 seconds you've got a little bit of real assets and then you've got a really small small portion maybe coming through maybe a cr or two crores coming through insurance 26:23 26 minutes, 23 seconds and stuff like that. So I think I think uh transaction brokerage revenue will really be a function of our ability to uh work through these five or six asset 26:30 26 minutes, 30 seconds classes and eventually once we build it out a little bit more over the next 3 to 6 months you'll uh see some revenue additions coming from uh things like um 26:38 26 minutes, 38 seconds you know uh investment banking and us taking on some ECN mandates and so on and so forth. So today I think I think to be honest uh overall I would say uh 26:48 26 minutes, 48 seconds the quality of TBR is better than where it was uh 24 months back or even 12 months back. uh while the number itself might not have grown dramatically over 26:56 26 minutes, 56 seconds 12 months but I think from a quality and sustainability perspective um it's a much better number I don't see dramatically increase over the next 2 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds three years I think it shows a healthy inflation linked growth but um but obviously I think a part of that uh uh 27:12 27 minutes, 12 seconds resultant uh growth will show up in the in in the arum growth because uh it kind 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds of gives us the ability to uh continuously add more to the ARR as compared to the TBR. 27:26 27 minutes, 26 seconds Understood. So my my last question is that you know now that the team is there uh do you think operating leverage will kick in and maybe over the next 18 to 24 27:34 27 minutes, 34 seconds months the cost to income ratio would look lower? 27:37 27 minutes, 37 seconds No no we have to uh we have to increase operating leverage there's no doubt about it. I think um um 27:45 27 minutes, 45 seconds uh because at the end of the day I think today uh at around about 48 and a half 49% cost to income. I think uh I think I 27:53 27 minutes, 53 seconds think one of the key objectives we would have for next year is obviously cost optimization. Now cost optimization can happen through three four three four 28:00 28 minutes things. Uh it doesn't need to happen at the cost of growth but obviously it happens at at three four things. The first and most 28:08 28 minutes, 8 seconds important is if I kind of break up the cost to income ratio of today 48.2 48.3%. You've got nearly 3 and a half 4% 28:15 28 minutes, 15 seconds coming out of um two two kind of businesses which are I would say not in the mature off stage which is ET money 28:22 28 minutes, 22 seconds and uh and our and our reserve business which is the HNI business. Those two kind of contribute to around about three and a 28:30 28 minutes, 30 seconds half 4% on the cost to income side. So on a steady state basis uh the rest of our businesses are at 44 and a half 45. 28:37 28 minutes, 37 seconds I see both businesses kind of being close to uh reserve definitely HNI business definitely breaking even next 28:44 28 minutes, 44 seconds year or middle half of next year and ET money hopefully on a run rate basis being close to break even next towards the end of next financial year. So I 28:53 28 minutes, 53 seconds definitely see let's say out of the 400 basis points I see around about 200 basis points uh or on an annualized basis 150 200 basis points recovery on 29:02 29 minutes, 2 seconds the cost to income ratio on on on these two items put together and on the core business I think um you know we we we need some productivity gains. I think u 29:11 29 minutes, 11 seconds uh I wouldn't say I wouldn't say uh productivity gains obviously comes in two formats. I think there are some places where we we may have kind of 29:20 29 minutes, 20 seconds overrecruited over a period of time over the over the last three to four years which automatically kind of gets adjusted through u uh through growth in 29:28 29 minutes, 28 seconds business and second obviously you know as we build out new businesses uh we have we have a lot of talent within the system which we kind of which we have 29:36 29 minutes, 36 seconds the ability to kind of move around. So overall I think I we should be able to achieve 12 125 basis points or 150 basis points improvement in cost to income on 29:45 29 minutes, 45 seconds the um on the core business and uh potentially another 125 150 basis point bonds on the new businesses. So we would 29:52 29 minutes, 52 seconds definitely as a as a team want to target 45 to 46 for next year. Uh hopefully we can get to 45 30:00 30 minutes aspirationally but otherwise 46 for sure compared to the 48.2 we are at now. 30:06 30 minutes, 6 seconds Understood. This is very helpful. Thanks and wish you all the best. Thank you. 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds Thank you. As a reminder, you may click on the raise hand icon to ask your question and we'll really appreciate if you could restrict yourself to two 30:17 30 minutes, 17 seconds questions. Next on line, we have Nanjan Kumar. 30:22 30 minutes, 22 seconds Naranjan, kindly unmute and ask your question. 30:27 30 minutes, 27 seconds Uh I hope I am audible. Uh yes sir. Thank you for giving the opportunity and congratulations on the good set of numbers. So basically I have 30:34 30 minutes, 34 seconds two questions. one on the flows uh on the retentions like where can we see the retentions for both on the wealth 30:43 30 minutes, 43 seconds management business and the asset management business. Second carry income uh in PP it is mentioned it is six basis 30:50 30 minutes, 50 seconds points but on what basis it has been calculated because my number is little different from the number which is reported in the data book. That's it from myself. 31:00 31 minutes Sorry what was the first question? Where do you see retention? Retention. 31:04 31 minutes, 4 seconds Yeah. So retention will be similar. I don't see any uh any dramatic change in retentions. I don't think so there's any u industrywide change in uh from a 31:12 31 minutes, 12 seconds retention perspective. So I think on the alternate side we continue to see approximately a 70 75 basis points uh 31:19 31 minutes, 19 seconds retention x of uh x of carry. Uh we see ourselves booking approximately 15 to 20 basis points of carry. Uh and 31:28 31 minutes, 28 seconds potentially the listed side of the business will continue between the 55 to 60 basis points. Potentially that's where it may go down to 50. So I think 31:36 31 minutes, 36 seconds broadly depending on the mix between the uh between the alternates and the uh on the uh and the listed side we'll be approximately at the 73 to 75 basis 31:45 31 minutes, 45 seconds points kind of retention and wealth continues in a similar uh similar kind of orbit. Uh so really from a pure 31:52 31 minutes, 52 seconds retention perspective um on the ARUM uh don't see much change at all on the TBR side obviously it's not going to be 32:00 32 minutes linked to linked to the AUM exactly it's going to be linked to some of the parameters I spoke to spoke about earlier on the six basis points I'll 32:07 32 minutes, 7 seconds just request either Anuman or Sanjay to come in the six basis points refers to the 32:20 32 minutes, 20 seconds Sorry, the six basis points refers to the incremental uh carry that has uh come in in and that 32:27 32 minutes, 27 seconds has got recognized uh in this quarter itself. There is a you know we shared earlier as well we have a carry approval 32:35 32 minutes, 35 seconds uh policy a relatively conservative carry approval uh policy and this is just referring to the incremental carry that's come in on a normalized basis. 32:43 32 minutes, 43 seconds Therefore, we expect the retentions to go back to the 7576 basis points uh level for uh next quarter onwards. 32:54 32 minutes, 54 seconds Thank you sir. That's it for sir. Thank you. Next in line we have Nit. 33:04 33 minutes, 4 seconds Uh hi sir. Hi. 33:08 33 minutes, 8 seconds One question is on retention. Uh so if I look at retention managed accounts so we have the retention has gone up quite a bit. Uh so is it because of carry that we have got in that uh segment? 33:19 33 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah a little bit because of carry three to four basis points but otherwise it's broadly in the region of uh sorry one second. 33:30 33 minutes, 30 seconds So yeah it has gone up 80 basis points. 33:32 33 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah. Yeah. No no so three to four basis points is naturally the rest is largely on account of carry. 33:39 33 minutes, 39 seconds Okay. And and carry we account on a acroal basis each quarter or is it one of the quarter because I think 33:47 33 minutes, 47 seconds no so broadly the way we've been accounting for carry we've kind of described it in a in a note earlier but broadly speaking we've do it on a fairly 33:55 33 minutes, 55 seconds conservative basis. So two or three things we kind of take into account. 34:00 34 minutes Number one carry for the fund should have kind of crossed uh the hurdle more or less for the entire life of the fund. 34:06 34 minutes, 6 seconds Okay. So effectively the chance or the probability of the carry getting reversed is next to negligible because if it's a six-year fund it should have 34:14 34 minutes, 14 seconds crossed the curdle for the entire uh entire time period and secondly the fund should be uh 18 months um uh 18 months 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds away from uh maturity. So I think these are the two two things which we broadly follow from a recognition of carry 34:30 34 minutes, 30 seconds perspective and and from a timing perspective in uh in in any quarter where we reach this eligibility then we recognize carry 34:38 34 minutes, 38 seconds because I think last yes yes so right now for example I think we've got uh carry recognized broadly only in two or three schemes right now. Yeah. 34:51 34 minutes, 51 seconds Uh secondly in the net flow I've seen pretty strong net flow in non-discretionary PMS. Uh I think we have been uh highlighting in the past 34:58 34 minutes, 58 seconds that we try to move these c these clients to uh discretionary PMS but that is not playing out. So what is inhibiting that and how do you see that? 35:06 35 minutes, 6 seconds Uh yeah I think discretionary PMS could improve for sure. I think that's that's but but but uh let's let's kind of yeah 35:14 35 minutes, 14 seconds take your take it one step back. I think discretionary PMS or what's called kind of net owned funds 35:21 35 minutes, 21 seconds across the globe. It's the la it's the toughest toughest kind of franchise to build. Uh and um it's it's kind of 35:30 35 minutes, 30 seconds represents the maximum trust the client can have with you because he's kind of giving you full freedom on a multiple 35:37 35 minutes, 37 seconds multi multi-asset class basis. Okay. To manage his money and kind of just do a review with him once in a quarter. So I 35:45 35 minutes, 45 seconds think uh it's it's it's it's a it's a slightly tougher mandate to build. Do we believe in it? Uh the answer is 110%. 35:52 35 minutes, 52 seconds Eventually it's going to be one of the most u uh most uh important kind of platforms to build. I think if I look 35:59 35 minutes, 59 seconds across the globe uh whether it's in Europe or in Asia and the US, it started out very slowly. Uh but fast forward to maybe 5 years from the time it started 36:08 36 minutes, 8 seconds out today, it's a good 20 25% of every large private bank's portfolio. So I I would expect it to keep growing. I think 36:15 36 minutes, 15 seconds um performance has been good. Uh obviously the ability to make a difference in performance is not as sharp as your you have on the alternate 36:22 36 minutes, 22 seconds side because discretionary PMS by definition is more or less 100% liquid uh liquid portfolio. Uh but I think we've we've we've made we've 36:30 36 minutes, 30 seconds differentiated ourselves a lot by by kind of diversifying uh having a right quantum in reads in commodities 36:38 36 minutes, 38 seconds and so on and so forth. So I think it's just a question of time. I think every client will end up allocating a portion to the discretionary PMS side. But if 36:46 36 minutes, 46 seconds there is one number which I would like to uh improve over the next 12 24 months uh would be the discretionary EPMS number. 36:54 36 minutes, 54 seconds Sure. Uh thank you. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. 36:57 36 minutes, 57 seconds Thank you. As a reminder, in case you wish to ask any questions, kindly click on the raise hand icon. 37:06 37 minutes, 6 seconds Next in line, we have Abijit Sakari. 37:08 37 minutes, 8 seconds Abijit, kindly unmute and ask your question. 37:12 37 minutes, 12 seconds Hey hi uh good evening uh uh yeah yeah yeah my first question uh uh was that you know over the last one 37:20 37 minutes, 20 seconds year there's been lot of discussion with respect to talent u right so when I look at things you're like a large incumbent 37:28 37 minutes, 28 seconds when it comes to the the wealth business right which is considered to be you know slightly stickier high quality and the 37:35 37 minutes, 35 seconds way the new businesses are bit getting built up like equities or investment banking right there we are like a challenger right in terms of trying to 37:43 37 minutes, 43 seconds acquire new talent. I mean so how do you kind of look at the current like phase of the industry with respect to you know being more aggressive or conservative uh 37:52 37 minutes, 52 seconds between the two businesses in terms of you know protecting ex existing talent on wealth as well as kind of being more aggressive to chase uh talent to build the newer businesses. 38:03 38 minutes, 3 seconds I think both both are separate and great questions. I think from protecting existing talent perspective, I think um it's a combination of three or four 38:12 38 minutes, 12 seconds things like like we've always maintained. Number one, I think obviously there's a certain culture to every to every organization and from 38:19 38 minutes, 19 seconds from our perspective, we are 24/7 focused on u focused on managing money for clients. So I think just just the 38:26 38 minutes, 26 seconds the ability to give comfort to our uh to our relationship managers and to our team leaders and to our to our heads of 38:33 38 minutes, 33 seconds businesses that uh you know not not only what they are promising to their clients but but the ability to keep the client money safe and deliver the right 38:41 38 minutes, 41 seconds objective and outcome uh and we are fully committed to it is extremely important. Uh second obviously they should have the ability to be you know 38:48 38 minutes, 48 seconds kind of armed with the right set of products and platform to be able to do go out and do business. Once these two things happen there should be alignment 38:56 38 minutes, 56 seconds of interest and I think all our employees understand extremely well that there are three three stakeholders in every business. There's a investor shareholder, there's a management and 39:05 39 minutes, 5 seconds there's a client and ultimately uh you know economics have to be kind of split uh in a in a right in a right rational manner between the three stakeholders. 39:14 39 minutes, 14 seconds And I think as long as we can kind of continue to do that and explain that to our existing um existing talent, I think 39:22 39 minutes, 22 seconds most of them um continue to kind of study study the ship and kind of ride the ship along with us. In terms of new 39:28 39 minutes, 28 seconds talent, uh we are unlikely to be crazy aggressive. Uh we neither we're neither kind of we typically would take our 39:36 39 minutes, 36 seconds time. Uh I I I think even on the banking side I think in total we've kind of given out two offers as we speak over the last 3 to four months. Obviously 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds we've ended up meeting a lot of people and we'll continue to meet a lot of people. Uh we will be selective. Uh we will focus on building out the uh the 39:52 39 minutes, 52 seconds top seven eight of people uh top seven eight people in in in banking and we really built teams around them. It's not going to be it's not going to be a a 40:01 40 minutes, 1 second quick quick hiring process. And if you honestly see our business model also uh you know banking is really not even uh 40:08 40 minutes, 8 seconds set out for a for for for a large revenue buildout over the next 12 odd months. Uh from a BNK acquisition perspective we really see the first 40:17 40 minutes, 17 seconds fruits of our labor play out in the next 12 months on the equity side and the year after that potentially on the banking side. So we're going to take 40:25 40 minutes, 25 seconds some time to hire banking. I think we would we would take anywhere from zero to six months to kind of get our uh get 40:33 40 minutes, 33 seconds our six to eight business heads in from a compensation philosophy for these six or eight people. It's going to be very much aligned with the way we build our 40:40 40 minutes, 40 seconds our wealth business. So it is going to be a compensation or it's going to be a f it's going to be a combination of um 40:48 40 minutes, 48 seconds uh it's going to be a compos it's going to be a combination of uh empowerment that's number one I think that's that's most important for people and number two 40:56 40 minutes, 56 seconds obviously kind of ensuring that uh there is alignment of interest and culture and number three along with that ensuring that you know as business results get 41:04 41 minutes, 4 seconds delivered uh there is enough alignment of interest from a wealth creation perspective and I think that that's that's really the philosophy we've 41:11 41 minutes, 11 seconds followed whether we've whether we build out the wealth business or even the more recently in 1718 the asset management business. So I think we continue with 41:19 41 minutes, 19 seconds the same philosophy. We are unlikely to uh kind of change our change our compensation paradigm too much. 41:28 41 minutes, 28 seconds Got it. Uh thanks for the detailed response Karan. Uh there's just one more uh question on uh on like when we think 41:35 41 minutes, 35 seconds about next uh next year's financials right? uh like you mentioned uh the the growth on the ER amum right uh still 41:45 41 minutes, 45 seconds seems on track to be you know between let's say 20 to 30% uh based on uh how the markets do um TBR I'm not sure how 41:53 41 minutes, 53 seconds we should think about uh growth on current year's base but definitely there's like lot of uh operating leverage like you hinted does all of 42:01 42 minutes, 1 second this sort of uh you know basically hint at or imply like a fairly substantial uh like an earnings uplift as you see 42:08 42 minutes, 8 seconds things today is really tough but um I'll try to answer it in the best way possible. I think to be honest I'll just go back to 42:17 42 minutes, 17 seconds March April 25 right so around about u 9 months from back from today because you these things happen in sports and you 42:25 42 minutes, 25 seconds know they're not they and and they're not really as as um as uh as as linear 42:32 42 minutes, 32 seconds as we would want it but um I would I would I would like to believe April 25 and if I look forward 3 years from April 42:39 42 minutes, 39 seconds 25 to April 28 uh you know I would want to come back to my own old number of 202 42:46 42 minutes, 46 seconds to 24% AUM growth uh 16 to 18% growth of u of of revenues and uh 22 to 24% growth 42:54 42 minutes, 54 seconds in u in profits. So if I just look at my thousand cr,000 cr profit number of uh uh April 25 uh would be disappointed if 43:04 43 minutes, 4 seconds you can't be in that zip code of uh you know give or take 1,800 crores to 2100 crores of uh profit after tax in uh uh 43:13 43 minutes, 13 seconds in 3 years from there. So effectively 25 26 26 27 and 27 28. So I think I think that's that's really the way I would look at it. Obviously, it needs a lot of 43:22 43 minutes, 22 seconds things to uh to fall in place, but honestly, if you ask me as a as a management, uh we really striving for a 43:29 43 minutes, 29 seconds 22 to 24% AUM growth, 16 to 18% revenue growth, and therefore a corresponding 20 to 24% profit growth. 43:38 43 minutes, 38 seconds Thank you. Super helpful as always. Thank you. 43:42 43 minutes, 42 seconds Thank you. Next in line, we have Depan Gosh. 43:53 43 minutes, 53 seconds Hi. Hi. 43:55 43 minutes, 55 seconds So just few questions from my side you know current just taking cues from the last question and you know uh and you know maybe I've asked this question a few times in terms of the carry profile. 44:04 44 minutes, 4 seconds Now obviously we don't have significant visibility on the funds that are about to exit not now but let's say FI2728. 44:12 44 minutes, 12 seconds So when you give this guidance of let's say or expectation of let's say 1,800 to uh 2100 cr of expected profit after tax 44:20 44 minutes, 20 seconds depending on market conditions and multiple other things. Uh what sort of um sensitivity to carry does this number really holds and if you can give some 44:29 44 minutes, 29 seconds clarity on uh you know at least for the next few quarters how should one think because you're significantly uh above 44:36 44 minutes, 36 seconds your stated guidance uh at least for now. Uh the second question uh is on the flow side. Obviously the flows have been uh quite strong during the quarter but 44:44 44 minutes, 44 seconds if I just look at the wealth flows um you know obviously you have onboarded a few new teams uh over the last uh 6 7 44:51 44 minutes, 51 seconds months and when some of the people exited from the firm we saw outflows. So can you give some color on uh you know the quantum of flows that some of these 44:58 44 minutes, 58 seconds new teams onboarded now or maybe in the last two years would be bringing in versus the existing ones and just one factual question in terms of the product pipeline on AMC. 45:09 45 minutes, 9 seconds No I think broadly 20 to 25 basis points is the broad carry assumption we work with. Uh you know historically we was used to work with 10 to 15 basis points. 45:19 45 minutes, 19 seconds I think over the last couple of years we made it 15 to 20. I think it's fair to say that uh you now we're kind of acting in 20 to 25 business points because uh 45:29 45 minutes, 29 seconds we've launched a lot of our schemes over the last two and a half three years and uh sorry 2025 for 45:37 45 minutes, 37 seconds yeah yeah uh so 2025 basis points of the 50,000 cr number is effectively what we are kind of building in so I think we we 45:46 45 minutes, 46 seconds expect uh you know and and just given the way we are accounting for carry on a fairly conservative basis I think there will you know more or less a symmetrical uh 45:55 45 minutes, 55 seconds number of 25 to 40 crores of carrier quarter. Uh having said that there obviously can be events and there can be 46:02 46 minutes, 2 seconds uh listings and so on and so forth where there is a sudden and if you have a concentrated position in that stock uh you know that that can lead to a little 46:09 46 minutes, 9 seconds bit of an uptick in carry but typically if you see 25 to 40 crores a quarter is broadly the assumption and I would I 46:18 46 minutes, 18 seconds would say a healthy number to assume for us would be 25 basis points of our altum. So for altum today is around about 50,000 crores 125 crores of carry 46:27 46 minutes, 27 seconds is par for the course. Uh we have around about 75 odd basis points of management fee. Uh so if you add the two 46:33 46 minutes, 33 seconds approximately 100 they have 95 200 basis points of retention on alts is uh pretty much the right way to look at it. And 46:41 46 minutes, 41 seconds similarly on the listed side we would have around about 60 odd basis points. 46:45 46 minutes, 45 seconds So both put together on a blended basis 60 and 100 would give us around about 80 odd basis points. That's the way I would uh broadly look at the u look at the uh 46:54 46 minutes, 54 seconds look at the numbers. Second, in terms of uh close, I think uh new teams have just about come in. Uh you know, they've t 47:01 47 minutes, 1 second they've mostly most of them have joined over the last 45 days. A large teams joined a week back. Uh so I think in terms of flows right now, the new teams 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds have just started coming in. So I don't think so. It's a massive massive contribution from new teams yet. uh but hopefully it'll kind of step in over the 47:18 47 minutes, 18 seconds next uh uh 3 to nine months. Uh obviously we've uh we've got a large large amount of uh clients a large team already there which is kind of firing. 47:29 47 minutes, 29 seconds But if I look at both um if I look at both our markets north and south I think north this quarter is actually 47:37 47 minutes, 37 seconds marginally marginally positive in terms of flows. Uh south is significantly positive. So overall I think you know 47:45 47 minutes, 45 seconds both both north and south or Delhi and Bangalore rather not whole of north and south which were kind of maybe a little 47:52 47 minutes, 52 seconds a little negative effectively become positive but I think uh you know we will we will get back a lot more market share 47:59 47 minutes, 59 seconds in the next uh couple of quarters in these um uh in both these locations. 48:06 48 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah. And lastly on the product pipeline, I think um you know uh no specific nonprofit 48:15 48 minutes, 15 seconds side. We've got something on the uh on the on the uh on the on the on the mutual fund SF side. We've got something 48:22 48 minutes, 22 seconds happening on the uh on the real asset side. We've also got a uh a product happening on the on the RE side. So 48:30 48 minutes, 30 seconds we've got we've got four or five things happening through the quarter. Obviously uh uh obviously a lot of a lot of those 48:38 48 minutes, 38 seconds uh continue to uh continue to attract a lot of interest. We've also launched a couple of very interesting funds through the gift city. Uh so overall I think a 48:46 48 minutes, 46 seconds fairly healthy product pipeline and uh you know there's not not not something like one single big bank but all of 48:54 48 minutes, 54 seconds these things kind of there are multiple asset classes and multiple formats so they all kind of add up in uh in in their own way. 49:01 49 minutes, 1 second Uh got it Karan and uh thanks for the answers and all the best. Thank you. Thanks. 49:06 49 minutes, 6 seconds Thank you. Next in line we have Lalit Dio. Lalit kindly unmute and ask your question. Yeah. Yeah. Hi sir. 49:16 49 minutes, 16 seconds Yeah. Good congratulations. A good set of just two questions. So firstly on the UBS uh so last quarter we highlighted that their products will start getting 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds referred on both the platforms. So where are we in that journey and could you also like uh could you also comment on the the unit economics over there? So 49:34 49 minutes, 34 seconds that was the first and second was just a factor question. So in the ultra HNI business we mentioned that we have hired new 49:41 49 minutes, 41 seconds teams. So what would be the number uh RM numbers over there and how should we look for the next year? 49:48 49 minutes, 48 seconds So on the UBS side um you know I think as an mentioned we've just signed the collaboration agreement three weeks back. uh you know so I think from a real 49:56 49 minutes, 56 seconds business business perspective I think it starts from 2 3 weeks from today but in all on on honesty uh from a practical 50:04 50 minutes, 4 seconds onboarding perspective because uh for our products to get on boarded on the UBS platform itself is a a massive due diligence exercise we are launching one 50:12 50 minutes, 12 seconds of the UBS products on our platform which I think takes approximately I think 6 to 8 weeks from today from from a regulatory approval perspective so I 50:21 50 minutes, 21 seconds think uh we will see actual numbers kind of translating from April, May onwards. 50:26 50 minutes, 26 seconds I think potentially April onwards. Uh from a from a unit economics perspective, it's absolutely on a on a 50:34 50 minutes, 34 seconds on a market on a market basis. So pretty much where we are a manufacturer, we earn like a manufacturer and UBS owns as 50:41 50 minutes, 41 seconds a distributor. Uh where we are a where we are a distributor and UBS is a manufacturer. It works vice versa. And obviously you know on the client 50:49 50 minutes, 49 seconds referral side um in the first year the economics is um is is is more biased towards the introducer and uh as as time 50:58 50 minutes, 58 seconds goes by it becomes more biased towards the person who's uh who's managing the account. Uh so that's that's as far as 51:05 51 minutes, 5 seconds uh UBS goes. Uh as far as um the new what was the second question sorry the RN 51:13 51 minutes, 13 seconds yeah the RNs on the ultra high network segment have grown to around about 190 191 odd relationship managers uh plus a 51:22 51 minutes, 22 seconds few teams will get added over the next 3 to 6 months where the offers have kind of already been given. So it's grown from around about 155 160 to around 51:30 51 minutes, 30 seconds about 191. I think our previous peak was around about 170 175 uh we lost around 51:37 51 minutes, 37 seconds about 15 20 people uh both the maybe 22 23 people in both the places put together uh which is kind of uh got added back plus we've added maybe 51:46 51 minutes, 46 seconds another 15 18 people so around about 190 bankers 191 bankers uh going back to my 51:52 51 minutes, 52 seconds old numbers I think um uh broadly would like to see a number around the 300 350 mark over the next 3 four years so I 52:00 52 minutes think we we need to add on about uh uh 40 to 50 good talented bankers every year. 52:09 52 minutes, 9 seconds Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Next in line we have Sedat. 52:14 52 minutes, 14 seconds Sedat kindly unmute and ask your question. 52:18 52 minutes, 18 seconds Hi, congratulations on a great set of numbers. Uh couple of questions. first uh you know you mentioned about 52:25 52 minutes, 25 seconds discretionary uh PMS really being uh being sort of a a tough one right uh 52:33 52 minutes, 33 seconds but on that one thing that I observed was there's a sharp retention drop in Q3 52:40 52 minutes, 40 seconds compared to the 40 odd 40 to 45 basis points trend that we've been seeing over the last few quarters 52:48 52 minutes, 48 seconds so just wanted to understand if that was more uh a particular mandate are you are you seeing some competitive intensity 52:56 52 minutes, 56 seconds increase there that that's question number one u and and similarly on the mutual funds side also if we look at it 53:04 53 minutes, 4 seconds right in terms of the the uh retention of distribution assets on mutual funds that's also slightly sloping down and 53:11 53 minutes, 11 seconds that could be a function of just you know asset allocation between u equity and debt so just wanted to understand how we should think of that retention 53:19 53 minutes, 19 seconds over the next four quarters or So given that asset allocation will continue. So that was on the retention side and second was in in terms of capital 53:28 53 minutes, 28 seconds allocation right now with with uh UBS warrants etc also coming in at one point in time uh on the capital front how 53:36 53 minutes, 36 seconds should how should we think through your uh capital allocation over say the next 18 months 53:44 53 minutes, 44 seconds thanks no so I think from I I'll start with the u with the questions on the capital allocation and then I'll move ahead on the u on the on the retention 53:53 53 minutes, 53 seconds portions so I Broadly speaking um on the on the capital allocation perspective nothing really big in terms of change. I 54:01 54 minutes, 1 second think we continue to use our capital for two things I think for the alternates business as well as for the broad NBFC. 54:08 54 minutes, 8 seconds Uh I I see both continuing to grow actually. So I think unless and until uh we get some real acquisition opportunity 54:15 54 minutes, 15 seconds none of it which we see now uh I think most of our capital will kind of go back into uh into uh growing our NBFC book as 54:23 54 minutes, 23 seconds well as kind of ensuring that we are able to deploy a little bit more capital into our own um into our own alternates from a dividend perspective obviously we 54:32 54 minutes, 32 seconds continue to remain um 45 to 70% of our profits uh around um outside of um 54:39 54 minutes, 39 seconds outside of our um als being declared as dividends. I think um 54:47 54 minutes, 47 seconds uh the the the uh the aspiration obviously on a on a on a capital allocation basis is with the 54:56 54 minutes, 56 seconds increase in profitability to move towards the mid20s in terms of ROE on a on a intangible basis including the uh 55:05 55 minutes, 5 seconds including the uh including the goodwill assets and the other assets try to move towards the late team numbers from an 55:12 55 minutes, 12 seconds ROE perspective from a from a retention perspective on the u on the on the uh AUM side I think no real 55:21 55 minutes, 21 seconds change. I think we had some AUM and a single mandate which was kind of transferred uh from UBS which was small 55:28 55 minutes, 28 seconds which was which had a small impact but otherwise one of the larger larger impacts had a larger EUM had a five basis points reduction. So not really 55:37 55 minutes, 37 seconds anything which is uh which is kind of not repetitive. So I think the 55:45 55 minutes, 45 seconds discretionary uh retention remains around the 4550 basis points outside of these two. Uh the non-discretionary will continue 55:52 55 minutes, 52 seconds between the 28 to 35 basis points. Uh so no big change there. Uh the discretionary mandate honestly um it's 56:00 56 minutes not a function of retention. I think it's just a function of a little bit more acceptance and as acceptance kind of builds out I see that u business we 56:08 56 minutes, 8 seconds don't see really any pressure on the discretionary mandates from a from a retention perspective. It's just it's just that it's a it's a multi-asset 56:16 56 minutes, 16 seconds class tool. So it needs acceptance from the client as well as the relationship manager and from a relationship manager perspective obviously uh he needs to see 56:25 56 minutes, 25 seconds some value addition over over and above the core portfolio he's managing on his own. 56:34 56 minutes, 34 seconds Got it. That's useful. Thanks. And on the HNI prime just wanted to understand if we uh you know you've been giving some very good color in terms of how 56:41 56 minutes, 41 seconds each of these businesses have progressed right and and there the investments have stabilized for the last two quarters at 56:48 56 minutes, 48 seconds 18 crores but so has the top line right and therefore um you know is this uh are 56:55 56 minutes, 55 seconds you are you envisaging a little u not a delay really but are you know a 57:02 57 minutes, 2 seconds longer time than what you had projected in terms of that HNI revenue uh growth sort of ticking upwards or uh how should 57:11 57 minutes, 11 seconds we think of that? I wouldn't still measure the HNI business uh from a pure revenue perspective that quickly because I think the more important number there 57:20 57 minutes, 20 seconds would be uh net flows and uh AUM growth as well as the relationship manager growth because the revenues really kind 57:27 57 minutes, 27 seconds of since it's fully trailbased and is running on 110 basis retention the revenue numbers really don't um they 57:34 57 minutes, 34 seconds need to accumulate over a period of time for it to really uh increase. So for example, a 2,400 cr average AUM of Q3 57:43 57 minutes, 43 seconds versus a 2,700 cr average AUM of Q4 will not really kind of show up in uh in in 57:50 57 minutes, 50 seconds uh in in revenue numbers. Uh but it will have uh it will have an element of 200 crores of Mtomarket growth and 57:57 57 minutes, 57 seconds potentially a 4 500 cr element of uh net new flows which on an average becomes 200 250 crores. So overall happy with 58:05 58 minutes, 5 seconds the 450 cr opening AUM number going to 3,000 crores. Uh could it be faster? The answer is yes. Uh but we just don't want 58:12 58 minutes, 12 seconds to kind of quickly add 250 relationship managers across the country. We want to be sure of what what parts of the 58:19 58 minutes, 19 seconds clients walshare are we adding u uh adding uh value to and then build it out. So I think u I think we are at a 58:27 58 minutes, 27 seconds place where we are fairly confident and we are going to uh you know pretty much break even in 3 to 6 months. suppose that you'll see us expanding in a slightly more disproportionate way. 58:38 58 minutes, 38 seconds Glad to see the clarity in how this is playing out. Thank you very much and all the best. Thank you. 58:42 58 minutes, 42 seconds Thank you. Thank you. And this brings us to the end of our earnings call. Thank you for joining us. Have a nice evening. 58:49 58 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you. Thank you everybody for joining in. Happy New Year again. Thank you. 58:58 58 minutes, 58 seconds Very happy.