HDFC Life Insurance Company Ltd — Q4 FY26

HDFC Life Insurance Company Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhTyZdqMVrM Published: 3 weeks ago

0:02 2 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the FY26 earnings conference call of HDFC Life Insurance Company. 0:10 10 seconds As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenonly mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. 0:19 19 seconds Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. 0:27 27 seconds Please note that this conference is being recorded. 0:30 30 seconds I now hand the conference over to Miss Vibar Palkar, MD and CEO of HDFC Life. Thank you and over to you ma'am. 0:40 40 seconds Thank you Dvin. Good evening everyone and thank you for joining our earnings conference call for the year ended March 31st, 2026. Our results along with the 0:49 49 seconds investor presentation, press release and regulatory disclosures are available on our website and with the stock exchanges. Joining me today's call are 0:58 58 seconds Nir Sha executive director and chie chief financial officer Vir Aurora executive director and chief business officer Ishwari Muran appointed actually 1:07 1 minute, 7 seconds and Kunal Jane head investor relations business planning and strategy. On the macroeconomic front let me begin with 1:14 1 minute, 14 seconds the broader macroeconomic context. The global environment has become more uncertain in recent months with heightened geopolitical tensions and 1:22 1 minute, 22 seconds disruptions in energy markets and global supply chains creating near-term headwinds. In such an environment, while 1:30 1 minute, 30 seconds near-term demand might be impacted, we believe the life insurance sector remains relatively well positioned given 1:37 1 minute, 37 seconds the essential role of long-term savings protections and guaranteed outcomes, especially during periods of 1:44 1 minute, 44 seconds uncertainty. Moving on to business performance. During FI26, we continued to maintain our position amongst the top 1:52 1 minute, 52 seconds three insurers by individual WRP. Our private sector market shares stood at 15.2% for 11 months FI26. We 2:01 2 minutes, 1 second outperformed the industry in two key focus areas. The first one being retail protection which grew 43% and the second 2:08 2 minutes, 8 seconds one being our agency channel which also grew ahead of the sector. Retail summer assured growth for 11 months was higher 2:16 2 minutes, 16 seconds than the industry, reinforcing the quality of our business mix. Credit Protect saw a healthy rebound in the second half of the year driven by 2:25 2 minutes, 25 seconds recovery in the MFI segment and robust credit growth with a company retaining its leadership position in this segment. 2:33 2 minutes, 33 seconds From a topline perspective, FYI26 closed below our original expectations. Let me deconstruct this and outline our 2:41 2 minutes, 41 seconds confidence in the medium-term trajectory. H1 growth for us was ahead of the industry and quarter 3 was 2:49 2 minutes, 49 seconds broadly in line with expectations. The slowdown was largely concentrated in quarter 4 driven by unabsorbed GST, 2:58 2 minutes, 58 seconds temporary softness in bank assurance and deferment of demand in March due to global uncertainty. 3:05 3 minutes, 5 seconds However, our proprietary channels bucked the trend delivering a healthy growth of 15 to 16% in quarter 4 as well as in 3:14 3 minutes, 14 seconds FY26 and we thus delivered a fullear individual APE growth of 7% yearonear. 3:20 3 minutes, 20 seconds Our confidence to bounce back also stems from our customer acquisition metrics that remained healthy with over 70% of 3:28 3 minutes, 28 seconds new customers onboarded during the year being firsttime buyers of HDFC lives policies and that we ensured over 46 million lives during FY26. 3:39 3 minutes, 39 seconds Next on product mix, our individual AP composition for FI26 was unit length at 3:45 3 minutes, 45 seconds 44%, non-par savings at 18%, participating products at 25%, term at 3:52 3 minutes, 52 seconds 7% and annuity at 5%. As in prior periods, product mix remained an important driver of outcome during the 4:01 4 minutes, 1 second year. You will notice that our term was 7% versus 5% of last year. Unit linked 4:09 4 minutes, 9 seconds uh demand remained resilient through most of the year supported by customer appetite for market link participation. 4:15 4 minutes, 15 seconds Importantly, the quality of our unit linked business continues to improve with higher protection multiples and better rider attachment supporting 4:23 4 minutes, 23 seconds margins. The 13-month persistency over the past two years has also improved. 4:28 4 minutes, 28 seconds Both these metrics remain a deliberate strategic focus for us. At the same time, non-par demand was softer than our 4:35 4 minutes, 35 seconds expectations. We have maintained pricing discipline in this segment and while this has had a near-term impact on volumes, it positions us better from a long-term value and margin standpoint. 4:47 4 minutes, 47 seconds We have undertaken selective product refinements to improve competitiveness and with a more favorable yield curve environment. We expect non-par savings to gradually recover. 4:59 4 minutes, 59 seconds Protection was a clear highlight during the year with a growth of 43% supported by lower prices post GST and a 5:06 5 minutes, 6 seconds strengthened product portfolio and this continued even in quarter 4 when protection uh growth was 46%. 5:16 5 minutes, 16 seconds Retail protection mix expanded by nearly 200 basis points yearon year to 7.2% in FI26 and including riders protection now 5:24 5 minutes, 24 seconds contributes nearly 10% of our retail business. We also saw an improvement in ticket sizes post GST with customers 5:32 5 minutes, 32 seconds opting for higher levels of summer assured. Retail summer assured grew by 28% yearonear and we also maintained our 5:39 5 minutes, 39 seconds leadership position on overall summer assured reinforcing the quality of our business mix. Annuities were another 5:47 5 minutes, 47 seconds area of meaningful progress. During quarter 4, we launched RG1 growth nive and income or AGNI, an industry first 5:56 5 minutes, 56 seconds variable annuality plan that combines lifelong guaranteed income with growth potential linked to the nifty50 index. 6:04 6 minutes, 4 seconds We believe this kind of product innovation opens up new customer segments and we are encouraged by early traction. Annuty mix increased by almost 6:13 6 minutes, 13 seconds 300 basis points yearon-year to around 8% of individual AP in quarter 4 FY26. 6:20 6 minutes, 20 seconds Looking ahead, we expect a gradual shift in the product mix as customers rebalance towards long-term savings and protection in an environment of greater 6:29 6 minutes, 29 seconds uncertainty. We anticipate non-par savings to gain share relative to FY26 with protection and annuities continuing to grow ahead of the company average. 6:40 6 minutes, 40 seconds Moving on to financial and operating metrics for FY26, value of new business stood at 4,34 crores, representing 6:48 6 minutes, 48 seconds growth of 2% yearon-year. Value of new business growth excluding the impact of GST and surrender regulations changes 6:56 6 minutes, 56 seconds would have been broadly in line with overall AP growth. 7:07 7 minutes, 7 seconds New business margins for FYI26 excluding impact of GST and SSV would have been flat at 25.5%. 7:15 7 minutes, 15 seconds Post GST and SSV impact they were at 24.2% a decline of 140 basis points versus FI25. 7:24 7 minutes, 24 seconds This margin drop was driven by three key factors. First the impact of GST and surrender value of 130 basis points. 7:32 7 minutes, 32 seconds Second, the fixed cost absorption impact of 90 basis points arising from softer than expected topline growth 7:39 7 minutes, 39 seconds particularly in quarter 4. And third, 40 basis points on account of strengthening of the persistency assumptions in line with the experience that we had 7:48 7 minutes, 48 seconds disclosed in quarter 3. I'm happy to share that our experience in quarter 4 on persistency was better than what we 7:55 7 minutes, 55 seconds had uh mentioned in quarter 3. These three negative items were offset by a better product profile that contributed 8:03 8 minutes, 3 seconds 120 basis points. On GST, the headwind on margins has been moderating in line with our guidance. The impact in quarter 8:11 8 minutes, 11 seconds 4 was approximately 110 basis points and we expect this to taper off further and be largely neutralized as we move into FY27. 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds At a product level, underlying margins remain supported by improvements in product profile, including higher protection and annuality contribution 8:30 8 minutes, 30 seconds and better rider attachments. The annual assumption review was undertaken in quarter 4 as has been the past practice 8:38 8 minutes, 38 seconds which makes the Y impact of 40 basis points more visible in that quarter. 8:44 8 minutes, 44 seconds From a structural PO standpoint, the key levers for margin improvement remain intact. Continued growth in protection, higher rider attachment, recovery in 8:52 8 minutes, 52 seconds non-par savings, further enhancement in ULIP protection mix, lower fixed cost per policy and operating leverage as 9:01 9 minutes, 1 second growth normalizes. Based on these factors, we expect margins to improve. 9:06 9 minutes, 6 seconds Renewal collection saw steady growth at 15% during the year, reflecting the continued stability of the infos book. 9:13 9 minutes, 13 seconds On persistency, the 13-month ratio moderated by 200 basis points during the year, broadly in line with the evolving 9:20 9 minutes, 20 seconds business mix. As mentioned in quarter 3, this was driven by specific cohorts and does not reflect a broad-based shift in 9:27 9 minutes, 27 seconds portfolio quality. We have taken necessary actions as I'd mentioned and we are pleased to share that trends have stabilized in quarter 4. The 61st month 9:37 9 minutes, 37 seconds persistency remained robust at 64% improving by 100 basis points yearon year reflecting the continued strength of the long duration savings. 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds Emirate value stood at 62,139 crores. Operating return on embedded uh value for the period was 15% and this 9:56 9 minutes, 56 seconds would have been 15.4% on a normalized basis. Profit after tax for the period stood at 1,910 crores. 10:06 10 minutes, 6 seconds PAT excluding GST and labor code impact would have shown a growth of 16%. The board has recommended a final dividend 10:13 10 minutes, 13 seconds of 2.10 rupees per share in line with our pay payout policy aggregating to a 10:20 10 minutes, 20 seconds payout of rupees 456 cr. Our solveny ratio stood at 177%. 10:27 10 minutes, 27 seconds While we await clarity on the transition timeline to the riskbased solvency framework, we have taken board approval 10:34 10 minutes, 34 seconds to raise up to,000 crores by way of a preferential issue to our parent HFC bank. This will add 900 basis points to 10:42 10 minutes, 42 seconds our current solveny. Over the medium-term, the move towards a riskbased solveny regime should ensure better alignment of capital with 10:51 10 minutes, 51 seconds underlying risks and is likely to be beneficial for diversified franchises such as ours. 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds Moving on to distribution highlights, the ongoing buildup of our agency channel was a strong story for the year. 11:06 11 minutes, 6 seconds Agency grew ahead of the company by 500 basis points, maintaining a strong protection mix. The channel is now beginning to deliver the returns on the 11:14 11 minutes, 14 seconds multi-year investments we have made in branch expansion, talent acquisition and investment in bespoke products and 11:22 11 minutes, 22 seconds training and this has helped improve our relative positioning within the industry. We have added more than 250 11:28 11 minutes, 28 seconds branches over the last 30 months with business from these contributing to approximately 13% of the agency channel 11:36 11 minutes, 36 seconds stoplight. Our focus is now firmly shifting from expansion to productivity activation and the branch level 11:44 11 minutes, 44 seconds profitability. This should support a more sustainable and higher quality contribution from the channel going forward. On the other hand, partnership 11:52 11 minutes, 52 seconds channels experience elevated volatility during the year primarily driven by heightened competitive intensity. In 11:59 11 minutes, 59 seconds response, we exercise fiscal discipline by stepping away from unviable business. 12:05 12 minutes, 5 seconds Overall, while near-term growth has been influenced by the factors discussed, we believe our focus on continued investments in distribution, product 12:13 12 minutes, 13 seconds competitiveness, partner engagement, and pricing disciplines positions us well to deliver more sustainable and profitable growth as the environment normalizes. 12:23 12 minutes, 23 seconds Moving on to regulatory and industry developments. The industry continues to evolve in a direction that supports 12:30 12 minutes, 30 seconds greater transparency, stronger conduct and more sustainable long-term growth. 12:35 12 minutes, 35 seconds We view the transition towards Indasbased reporting as a positive structural development over time. This 12:42 12 minutes, 42 seconds should enhance comparability, improve market discipline and further align business models with long-term 12:49 12 minutes, 49 seconds value creation. With respect to IND, we have approval from our board to seek forbearance for FY27. We will be 12:57 12 minutes, 57 seconds applying to the regulator and are working toward full adoption from FY28. 13:02 13 minutes, 2 seconds We believe this approach allows for a more calibrated transition both operationally and from a reporting standpoint. Overall, the direction of 13:10 13 minutes, 10 seconds regulatory evolution remains constructive and we believe well diversified and disciplined players are well positioned to operate effectively 13:18 13 minutes, 18 seconds within this framework. Moving on to our subsidiaries, our wholly owned subsidiary HTFC pension fund management continued to strengthen its leadership 13:27 13 minutes, 27 seconds position with a market share of 43% and assets under management exceeding 1.5 lakh cr. Our other subsidiary HFC 13:35 13 minutes, 35 seconds International D continues to deliver steady reinsurance in reinsurance performance while scaling its gift city 13:42 13 minutes, 42 seconds presence. To conclude, we enter FI27 with the GSC transition that is largely 13:50 13 minutes, 50 seconds complete. The yield curve which is supportive for nonpar. Our agency channel is stronger today than it was a 13:57 13 minutes, 57 seconds year ago in terms of reach, productivity and quality of business protection portfolio is structurally larger and 14:04 14 minutes, 4 seconds more meaningful than any other prior point in our journey. As a result, our embedded value continues to reflect the 14:11 14 minutes, 11 seconds compounding strength of a high quality inforce book. Our aspiration to outpace industry new business and VNB growth 14:19 14 minutes, 19 seconds remains unchanged. For a more detailed discussion of our performance and outlook, please refer to the investor presentation. We will now be happy to take your questions. 14:32 14 minutes, 32 seconds Thank you very much. 14:34 14 minutes, 34 seconds We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. 14:47 14 minutes, 47 seconds Participants are requested to please use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now wait for a moment while the question assembles. 14:58 14 minutes, 58 seconds Our first question comes from the line of Ain Singh from MK Global. Please go ahead. 15:05 15 minutes, 5 seconds Yeah. Uh good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. A few questions. Uh the first one on growth. Uh yes. Uh as we 15:13 15 minutes, 13 seconds acknowledge there were multiple factors uh some external and some internal. In this context the particularly the 15:21 15 minutes, 21 seconds factors which are affecting growth in DFC bank channel be it the competitive intensity or maybe irrational pricing. 15:31 15 minutes, 31 seconds uh now uh I mean how has the particularly the you know uh your wallet share within SDFC bank channel behaved 15:39 15 minutes, 39 seconds in this Q4 vij what it has been for the 9 months. So how has that changed and 15:45 15 minutes, 45 seconds now what sort of a you know uh steps uh you are taking or what uh you know you are seeing uh competitive drawing or 15:54 15 minutes, 54 seconds competitive intensity changing that gives you hope that okay the things will normalize or go back uh uh maybe uh to 16:00 16 minutes say the past levels in FY27. So this is the question more around you know SCFC bank channel and what sort of a things 16:08 16 minutes, 8 seconds giving you confidence there in terms of you know uh your growth outlook. Second one would be more again it's a bit of a 16:16 16 minutes, 16 seconds you know small kind of a griification there is a very small piece of business that you know the participating group and pension now I mean in your again I'm 16:25 16 minutes, 25 seconds saying that your gap filing there is a kind of a sizable it's the business side is very small but the negative surplus or deficit in that power segment is 16:33 16 minutes, 33 seconds pretty big so I mean what exactly is the nature of this and why I mean this such a big deficit there you know in this 16:40 16 minutes, 40 seconds segment of business and lastly Again related to this I mean yes the backbook surplus is growing kind of a in an impressive way even this year kind of 16:48 16 minutes, 48 seconds 14%. But when I look at the new business strain I mean uh given yes there is a a strong growth in individual protection but at the same time non-par savings are 16:58 16 minutes, 58 seconds given way to par where typically the new business expense would be lower but the overall new business expend at the company level is growing very very 17:05 17 minutes, 5 seconds strongly is it something to do with you know the cost structure still remains a bit unfavorable what sort of explains that so these are my three question. 17:12 17 minutes, 12 seconds Thank you. 17:13 17 minutes, 13 seconds Yeah, thanks Ainina. I'll take the uh HFC Bank question and then uh pass it on to Ishwari on power drop uh on HFC Bank. 17:22 17 minutes, 22 seconds Um see uh I would be more worried if there were some uh very different product innovation or some you know 17:29 17 minutes, 29 seconds massive digital uh great technology really on a price point uh we don't believe that that is sustainable on a 17:36 17 minutes, 36 seconds long-term uh basis whether it's aggression to the uh on pricing or uh on andor on underwriting um and clearly it 17:44 17 minutes, 44 seconds is visible in terms of um um you know on ground uh so what will change uh I think 17:51 17 minutes, 51 seconds IFRS is a good uh segue into what I'm saying because ownorous contracts start becoming very apparent. Um also capital 18:01 18 minutes, 1 second I think overall as a sector capital is given that RBC pro possibly is now uh 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds taken a backseat to IFRS. Uh what what all of us thought that RBC would get rolled out first if that's going to 18:16 18 minutes, 16 seconds happen. All of this aggression does consume capital as well. So uh there's only that far that uh some of this can 18:24 18 minutes, 24 seconds be bankrolled. Um plus we haven't stayed quiet. Um we have introduced like I said products such as u uh our AGI product. 18:36 18 minutes, 36 seconds Uh some of the tweaks that we have done on even on non-par you will see what has been rolled out as we speak. Uh some of 18:42 18 minutes, 42 seconds that is uh we will again go back in terms of our ability to um uh to to capture the minds of of customers 18:51 18 minutes, 51 seconds especially against this fairly uh fairly uh uh elevated levels of volatility uh and some leaning away from the unit link 18:59 18 minutes, 59 seconds uh playbook. Uh so that's what gives us the kind of uh confidence also we are very very granular in terms of discussions with our parent uh in terms 19:08 19 minutes, 8 seconds of um which are the branches wherein our share is lower than what might be uh at an acceptable level why is that 19:17 19 minutes, 17 seconds happening is it because there's a flooding of additional people uh and and our manpower share so it's not a it's 19:24 19 minutes, 24 seconds not uh uh you know I mean the correlation is fairly strong that where our manpower share is lower than 50% our 19:31 19 minutes, 31 seconds our counter share goes down. So is there a optimal level of manpower share given all AI and other digital assets? Is 19:39 19 minutes, 39 seconds there a play to reduce manpower share overall for all three players and can we uh look at uh having uh more digital 19:47 19 minutes, 47 seconds offerings or part of the journey being digital and there once that happens I do believe that you know counter share just given brand synergies being a market 19:56 19 minutes, 56 seconds leader on especially on products I think all of that uh many things I mean I can't share everything that we're doing but that's what gives us the confidence mit you want to add 20:04 20 minutes, 4 seconds we've covered uh most of it uh I mean just the the fact that we knew exactly where we let go of business and we know 20:12 20 minutes, 12 seconds that you know what price point and what this thing works for us. Uh we do feel that aggression you know now that the 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds the GST uh burden on the margin and on the cost is also more or less absorbed it will be you know easier for us to 20:25 20 minutes, 25 seconds also even come back and uh have uh better price points. So, so we we feel that we will also be more competitive and we should be able to, you know, 20:34 20 minutes, 34 seconds garner more share from these uh uh branches that we might have let go of earlier. 20:38 20 minutes, 38 seconds Yeah. And that's an important point. We are very very cognizant of the opportunities that we let go because if 20:45 20 minutes, 45 seconds AB initial it doesn't make you know commercial sense as to why are we selling this kind of product uh then 20:53 20 minutes, 53 seconds that's not we'll just recede you know take a back seat exactly like what happened in protection. uh we did that and that's paid us very good dividends 21:02 21 minutes, 2 seconds in terms of the pricing power we had to bide our time uh we did many things uh some uh you know are behind the scenes 21:10 21 minutes, 10 seconds which I which I don't want to call out but many things on protection that today makes us um get hold of the kind of 21:18 21 minutes, 18 seconds profiles that we want to get hold of rather than just market dynamics saying whatever protection you know of whatever 21:25 21 minutes, 25 seconds quality business let me get that in moving away from that to uh controlling the narrative to step back to say what 21:33 21 minutes, 33 seconds kind of lives and what kind of business do I really want um and to you know recalc calibrate do many things to uh to get there so that's really then the 21:42 21 minutes, 42 seconds process of doing similar kind kinds of uh interventions on non-par and PAR like we did with protection if I can move on 21:50 21 minutes, 50 seconds to the PAR is over to you on u the impact on PAR FFA I think what Ain 21:57 21 minutes, 57 seconds So on the participating fund there are three four things that have happened during the year. One is the impact of GST which again is split into two parts. 22:06 22 minutes, 6 seconds One is the existing business and the second is the new business. on the existing business because there will be no ITC on the renewal commission and the 22:15 22 minutes, 15 seconds expenses incurred for the maintenance of the policies that impact has been taken into the reserves and that is having a negative impact in both life and pension 22:24 22 minutes, 24 seconds on the new business as well because there's no ITC on the GST that has been absorbed given that we are still looking at the design and the pricing of the 22:33 22 minutes, 33 seconds power products in the context of the new GST law. So this has been an impact as we will take some time to transition to the new products. The third is given the 22:42 22 minutes, 42 seconds changes to the surrender value regulations from October 24 onwards for all the participating policies regardless of whether they are going to 22:50 22 minutes, 50 seconds surrender or not. We hold the surrender value reserve which is also increasing the prudence. Some of these will get released into the FFA going forward but 22:59 22 minutes, 59 seconds it has been a one-time impact all coming together in the same period. That's why we see a deficit in the uh participating fund 23:07 23 minutes, 7 seconds and we have plans to u start um contributing back to par FFA to grow that uh over the next couple of years. 23:15 23 minutes, 15 seconds We'll be looking at all these structures to see what what is the optimal structure to maintain the uh fund at a 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds optimal level aiding growth as well as the existing business. Yeah. on the backbook surplus 23:30 23 minutes, 30 seconds the EV surplus is grown by lower amount again the same reasons uh we have allowed for the loss of input tax credit 23:37 23 minutes, 37 seconds on renewable commission and maintenance expenses on all lines of business that has resulted in a lower EB surplus 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds growth on the new business uh yes the new business strain should have been lower given that we've done lower non-path but if you look at the growth 23:52 23 minutes, 52 seconds in protection business and the credit product business that has resulted to a higher strain and also on the unit linked we writing with higher multiples 24:00 24 minutes and also higher rider attachments that has got a higher reserving requirement and all of these have resulted in the new business train growth being higher than the earlier years. 24:13 24 minutes, 13 seconds Okay, got it. Just counterfear impact is there in both the new business and EB that that is also one one of the 24:22 24 minutes, 22 seconds reasons for the new business train being higher. So just to summarize GST impact and a good problem to have in terms of protection. Yeah. 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Va counter share in SDS bank I mean in Q4 versus 9 months. 24:36 24 minutes, 36 seconds So I I Yeah. Go ahead. Uh have it the counter share in HSC bank in Q4 was 24:43 24 minutes, 43 seconds lower than what it was in 9 months. and uh and clearly I mean for the reasons we have articulated already we know what 24:50 24 minutes, 50 seconds the reasons were and uh I mean we're completely in control of you know what we can do going forward 24:58 24 minutes, 58 seconds okay thanks thank you ladies and gentlemen in order that the management is able to address 25:06 25 minutes, 6 seconds questions from all participants in the queue you are requested to please restrict yourselves to two questions only you may rejoin the queue if you 25:13 25 minutes, 13 seconds have further questions Our next question comes from the line of Sur Gpati from Mcquaryy. Please go ahead. 25:21 25 minutes, 21 seconds Yeah. So you know BA again uh somewhat indirectly related to the first question itself. You know in FI23 25:29 25 minutes, 29 seconds if you were to make a business projection of your BNB growth you would have said 15% plus KGER right for the 25:36 25 minutes, 36 seconds next 3 years. I'm looking at FI26 number your ker has been just 3% over the next over FI26 over FI23. So it's actually 25:45 25 minutes, 45 seconds not grown at all in 3 years time. I'm sure you were not expecting this kind of an outcome. Um I know there have been a 25:53 25 minutes, 53 seconds lot of changes but unfortunately you know the regulator is still talking about some commission caps. So many things are happening. Are you confident 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second that you know with the GST card whether it is protection the next 3 years will not see a single digit GMBB K. 26:11 26 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. So uh let me just uh walk you through first I'll give you the K but 26:16 26 minutes, 16 seconds FI25 to FI26 R FI25 we were at 25.6 six right and if I were to back out GST and 26:25 26 minutes, 25 seconds SSV the surrender value impact then my starting point would have been 24.3% 26:31 26 minutes, 31 seconds against 24.3% I was flat at similar kind of a number 24.2%. 26:38 26 minutes, 38 seconds Now to your more philosophical question that uh what kind of uh you know because of three very large ticket things that 26:46 26 minutes, 46 seconds have happened which is starting from uh the five lakh and above being tax uh followed by surrender charges followed 26:53 26 minutes, 53 seconds by GST you know business model changes have happened with unfortunately with with uh 27:00 27 minutes you know alarming regularity uh and fairly material. Um now what gives me the conf you know I have uh high level of confidence in the medium term. 27:11 27 minutes, 11 seconds However here and now in one year or so a little bit more difficult to say just as as any business plan. However you know 27:20 27 minutes, 20 seconds the uh the growth over uh the 4 year period of 1.8x to 2x I think that is 27:28 27 minutes, 28 seconds still something that we will be um gunning for. uh if there is any I think in terms of conversations I think the 27:36 27 minutes, 36 seconds only large ticket conversation in the media has been will something happen on distribution architecture if that happens I'm very confident that yes 27:45 27 minutes, 45 seconds medium ter immediate like all the other disruptions I've talked about there could be will we come out of it absolutely I have no doubt in my mind 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds that it will come so to summarize on a normalized three-year VNB keer uh would 28:00 28 minutes be around 9 10% you know and there I'm adjusting about thousand crores between this FI23 and the GST impact in FI26. 28:11 28 minutes, 11 seconds So that's the kind of that is yeah but then viba even if I were to adjust for that that is still way below 28:19 28 minutes, 19 seconds your industry standard right if I look at fi 10 to 2 uh 22 21 you are you were the bell weather in the industry 28:26 28 minutes, 26 seconds benchmark all said and then even normalizing for that your growth has been weak your uh VM growth has been weak and competition is not going away 28:35 28 minutes, 35 seconds people are people are going to be aggressive there's no compulsory listing so we are we are in a tough industry in a way right both from a competition 28:43 28 minutes, 43 seconds angle as well as from a regulatory angle no so on competition again I feel like I mentioned with ain the earlier caller 28:50 28 minutes, 50 seconds that I you know with sur uh it's going to dramatically change the way and bring discipline into way it's a proxy for 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds listing in a way because I you know listing or disclosures unfortunately if I was a bank then or you know most of my 29:07 29 minutes, 7 seconds competition is listed and there's that much that uh you know aggression that will be contained while you exactly like 29:14 29 minutes, 14 seconds you mentioned that's not the case now but IFRS regardless of whether you're going to be listed or not there are going to be segments level and even 29:22 29 minutes, 22 seconds further um you know more nuanced disclosures that will very clearly show ab initial what are the loss making or 29:31 29 minutes, 31 seconds ownerous contracts what did one price for and what actually you're trending for so this is going to be a huge I 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds would say tectonic change in how companies look at their business. Now, a promoter might might decide to ignore 29:46 29 minutes, 46 seconds that. That's their prerogative. But given that these companies have promoters have invested for many number of years, I'm sure they're wanting to 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds see returns at you know at the end of the uh that patient capital. So, I feel very enthused. it it might not happen in 30:03 30 minutes, 3 seconds FI27 because of uh most companies asking for forbearance but certainly a year down the line it should happen and and 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds if disclosure is going to happen in FI28 then I'm sure companies will start thinking as to you know at least internally looking at what their numbers 30:18 30 minutes, 18 seconds are are going to see we're also seeing positive trends in protection you know we went through the same story on protection and irrational competition 30:26 30 minutes, 26 seconds and so on happy to share that that kind of irrational competition has started um seeing some tempering uh and that's why 30:34 30 minutes, 34 seconds you can see our our growth u being right on the top as far as the industry is concerned on protection expecting the 30:41 30 minutes, 41 seconds similar kind of um in some level of restraint happening on other parts of savings as well do you want to add 30:49 30 minutes, 49 seconds anything just maybe step back a little bit you spoke about a period from 23 to 26 unfortunately both the opening as well 30:57 30 minutes, 57 seconds as the closing year had a lot of uh distortions as spoke about if you also just dial back one period from say FI20 31:05 31 minutes, 5 seconds to FI24 uh the number is fairly healthy at uh 15 odd%. You go one period before that it 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds is in a similar kind of a zone. So the thing is if we looking at a long-term business building it from a 3 to 5 year perspective the it the you know the 31:22 31 minutes, 22 seconds results could be nonlinear in a in a shorter span of time but just from a business cycle perspective and everything that is coming forward coming 31:31 31 minutes, 31 seconds uh in the next 3 to 5 years. We absolutely have no doubt as to why the sector and us within the sector not be 31:38 31 minutes, 38 seconds able to get back to that compounding uh story that we are used to delivering. So no no no real uh you know structural 31:46 31 minutes, 46 seconds issues that we see whether it's in terms of uh the relevance of the products customer demand as well as just the overall operating environment. Sorry. 31:55 31 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. Just one last question. Viva, your tenure and ID rule bit confusing. Can you just clarify when it ends? Is it a 32:03 32 minutes, 3 seconds 15 year rule applicable to you? What is the thing? Can you just clarify on that? 32:08 32 minutes, 8 seconds Yes. So Sur uh like I mentioned earlier also we uh when these regulations came in in 2023 32:16 32 minutes, 16 seconds uh we had written to the regulator and we had uh received clarification then that uh the 15 years start from when I 32:23 32 minutes, 23 seconds became the CEO MDN CEO. My tenure this current tenure ends in September uh of 32:30 32 minutes, 30 seconds this year uh and the board will will take a suitable call uh closer to that date. 32:37 32 minutes, 37 seconds And you are five years right into the six years into the CEO tenure right? 32:42 32 minutes, 42 seconds No I will be completing a term of 3 + 5 so 8 years by the time I finish in September. 32:49 32 minutes, 49 seconds Okay. Logically speaking another 7 years left as per the obviously the board will take a call right is that the 32:56 32 minutes, 56 seconds interpretation that's the yeah the interpretation is that 15 years is from when you get into the saddle as MDN CEO that is what we 33:05 33 minutes, 5 seconds had received clarification when we wrote to them in 2023 okay but this is not cast in stone I 33:13 33 minutes, 13 seconds mean can the regulator change their mind is what my question is I think that will be a question for regulator. 33:20 33 minutes, 20 seconds Okay. Sorry. Thanks so much. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. 33:25 33 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Maduk Lada from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. 33:42 33 minutes, 42 seconds Madala, your line has been unmuted. You may proceed with your question. 33:47 33 minutes, 47 seconds Yeah. Hi. Sorry. Uh sorry uh thank you for taking my question. Um first if I uh 33:55 33 minutes, 55 seconds you know just compare the IRS uh on the non-par product in sort of the principal HTFC bank channel offered by 34:04 34 minutes, 4 seconds your competitor. Uh the difference is quite substantial. Uh now what I wanted 34:11 34 minutes, 11 seconds to understand is if uh you were to sort of reduce 34:17 34 minutes, 17 seconds uh or if you were to offer higher uh IRS what would be the impact on your 34:23 34 minutes, 23 seconds margins? I mean why can't we uh sort of offer a more comparative uh product and 34:32 34 minutes, 32 seconds um u you know capture that counter share. Um so so uh one uh so that's 34:40 34 minutes, 40 seconds that's my sort of primary question and uh can you quantify the uh 34:47 34 minutes, 47 seconds the operating variance and assumption change uh between the various elements like persistency mortality expenses uh if if you could give that split. Yeah. 35:00 35 minutes Yeah. So on the question of IR uh basically there are two things here. One is that uh like you rightly mentioned in certain categories and variants of 35:09 35 minutes, 9 seconds products the difference is fairly substantial and uh since we introduced this category to the market uh six or seven years back 35:18 35 minutes, 18 seconds uh with multiple product innovations uh the easiest thing to do is to offer a rate. So if we could offer a rate uh 35:26 35 minutes, 26 seconds which which is uh the highest in the market at uh at the economics that are making sense to us uh we could have we 35:34 35 minutes, 34 seconds would have done that like you rightly said. Uh so if we are not doing that it basically tells you that the dilution uh 35:41 35 minutes, 41 seconds on the economics uh is not acceptable at the prevalent rates that some of the peers are choosing to offer. uh the more 35:49 35 minutes, 49 seconds uh you know the equally important thing is that uh given our position in the market uh if we end up doing something 35:57 35 minutes, 57 seconds which is uh let's say very aggressive or irrational it unfortunately visiates the entire uh environment and it forces 36:05 36 minutes, 5 seconds peers to do the same. So then you get into a downward spiral from which you know the industry will never recover. So there's no point playing that game 36:13 36 minutes, 13 seconds beyond a point. As we articulated earlier on the call, we are looking at things more granularly, customer segments, uh ticket sizes, product 36:20 36 minutes, 20 seconds variants where we may choose to be more competitive in the next uh in in the coming year and that will be again uh 36:28 36 minutes, 28 seconds some at levels that will make sense to us. We've said that we want to grow fast industry and deliver BNB growth in line 36:35 36 minutes, 35 seconds with that. So if we have to make trade-offs, sensible trade-offs between uh profitability and growth, we'll definitely do that. but provided it's 36:43 36 minutes, 43 seconds within a certain you know uh uh boundary conditions which which really makes sense from a medium to long-term perspective. So that's that's really our 36:52 36 minutes, 52 seconds uh uh approach. Uh we we don't see this to be a challenge from a medium to long-term perspective for all the reasons that we spoke about the 37:00 37 minutes regulatory environment movement to FRS uh risk based capital. It's not an endless road of capital being made available without any questions asked. 37:10 37 minutes, 10 seconds So that's that's not going to happen. uh given that situation I think uh things will stabilize. We gave the example of protection. The same kind of story 37:18 37 minutes, 18 seconds panned out a few years back. We we've kind of bided our time and we are you know here we we are where we are in terms of leadership in terms of some 37:27 37 minutes, 27 seconds assured on individual protection and overall as well. 37:30 37 minutes, 30 seconds I want to come in here and u I'm not uh making any specific reference to any company but more more broader for the 37:37 37 minutes, 37 seconds sector. See again I hopping back to IFRS you know I could give 70 basis points higher on nonpar for example uh like 37:45 37 minutes, 45 seconds Madukar you mentioned but no one no one really knows is this lap supported product which means that 37:52 37 minutes, 52 seconds you're hoping that customers don't pay their premiums down the line uh some of these things will start becoming a lot 37:59 37 minutes, 59 seconds more uh apparent under IFRS because then you get to see the full story because if 38:07 38 minutes, 7 seconds you know if if persistent Y is stays good and which it should be because they've bought a product that is giving 38:13 38 minutes, 13 seconds them 70 basis points higher but so but your assumption that you make money is only if it if only x percentage of 38:21 38 minutes, 21 seconds customers renew this so these nuances are really where the devil is in those details so we can easily match this if 38:29 38 minutes, 29 seconds we want to match it but I there's no way we're going to have a lap supported product there's no way I mean we are in the business to sell sell policy 38:38 38 minutes, 38 seconds policies and we are hoping that the customer stays vested in the policy till the very end. So this is only one example but but there are many such 38:46 38 minutes, 46 seconds nuances you know what will be the lumpsum at the end if they choose to surrender what is the surrender value that they or the nominee will get you 38:54 38 minutes, 54 seconds know and and so on there are many nuances to this because the corners will have to be cut somewhere else which are not very apparent the headline item will 39:01 39 minutes, 1 second be that the uh IR so much more you know it can't come out of thin air it can either be bankrolled by the shareholder 39:10 39 minutes, 10 seconds or um you know wherein something else is there the there are corners cut somewhere else these are only two possibilities because if I look at 39:18 39 minutes, 18 seconds expense ratios persistency not very different if at all worse than where we are today so that's the limited point um 39:26 39 minutes, 26 seconds this will normalize got it uh you know maybe I I can just 39:32 39 minutes, 32 seconds squeeze in one more question so on margins see on a QQ basis we were 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds expecting about a 100 basis points improve movement in margins because you know every quarter uh we were trying to 39:46 39 minutes, 46 seconds lower the GST impact that has not played out this quarter uh also I'm guessing partly because of the fullear assumption 39:54 39 minutes, 54 seconds change that also would have impacted but giving in this context where you know there is a negative uh expense drag also 40:03 40 minutes, 3 seconds on the margins uh negative sort of assumption change as well uh how do how should one see margin shaping up uh in 40:12 40 minutes, 12 seconds FI27 uh and beyond. I I I believe it's it's probably going to be difficult to maintain uh the earlier sort of guidance 40:22 40 minutes, 22 seconds of 25.6% uh any any comments around that would be helpful. 40:28 40 minutes, 28 seconds Yeah. So I think uh if we were to just go back to what we said three months back uh in terms of uh what the GST 40:36 40 minutes, 36 seconds impact is likely to be we started with 300 basis points brought it down to 190 and now we are standing at 110 basis points. So as such that is moving 40:44 40 minutes, 44 seconds exactly in line with what we had uh you know expect uh spoken about and are working towards internally as well and 40:52 40 minutes, 52 seconds by the time we finish the first half of next year we should be done with the GST impact and completely absorb it in our business model. Now coming to uh whether 41:02 41 minutes, 2 seconds we can uh get back to the levels that we spoke about at the beginning of the year uh about 25 and a half% we we can get to 41:09 41 minutes, 9 seconds it. Are we in a tailing rush to get to that at the cost of growth? We are not. 41:14 41 minutes, 14 seconds Our objective will be to get to uh industry fast industry growth and maintain BNB in line with that along the 41:21 41 minutes, 21 seconds way. Environment stabilizes and we have the opportunity to expand margins. We will certainly do so. But uh the first 41:28 41 minutes, 28 seconds uh goals post really is to ensure that the BNB delivery is in line with the AP growth next year and uh any sort of 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds expansion on top of that aided by product mix scale all of that is something that is definitely on the table. The Q4 impact is something which 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds we called out as uh something which is uh like web spoke about I mean it's the 41:51 41 minutes, 51 seconds while in H1 we were faster Q3 we were largely in line Q4 was certainly slower than where we want to be and that's the 41:58 41 minutes, 58 seconds that's the impact that we need to absorb and we we will as we as we as the growth normalizes so we're not too concerned uh 42:06 42 minutes, 6 seconds about uh the the additional impact that we saw in quarter 4 on BNB growth and consequently on the full year margins, we should be able to recover as the 42:14 42 minutes, 14 seconds growth normalizes next year. So that's not something that we worry about as a drag getting into FI27 and beyond. Uh if you're talking about a three-year 42:23 42 minutes, 23 seconds perspective, clearly there is room for margin expansion, but again, it's going to be measured. Uh some of our investments now start becoming more and 42:30 42 minutes, 30 seconds more uh uh bearing fruit in terms of branch uh productivity as well as our expenses on the technology front. All of these are expected to increase 42:39 42 minutes, 39 seconds productivity, efficiency and better risk management. With that uh margin expansion is something that we we should absolutely gun for with uh protection 42:47 42 minutes, 47 seconds becoming larger and larger part of a business as we go forward. 42:50 42 minutes, 50 seconds Yeah. And just to summarize if you see slide 13 of our investor presentation is exactly what NRJ mentioned that in our 42:58 42 minutes, 58 seconds if if I ignore the GST the one-time GST and surrender charge impact we we were very close to the same 25.6 six of last 43:07 43 minutes, 7 seconds year uh and the drop is only because of uh these items. So it was almost like margins were being held uh and the starting point is anyway 25.5. 43:19 43 minutes, 19 seconds Sure. Got it. Uh and the uh you know uh assumption change and uh variance breakup if uh that is if you could give that. 43:29 43 minutes, 29 seconds So the assumption change is mainly on the persistency. The 13-month persistency dropped uh during the year and this has been reflected in the 43:38 43 minutes, 38 seconds assumptions both in embedded value and the new business. It's mainly coming from persistency and that is 13 month persistency. All other cohorts we don't 43:46 43 minutes, 46 seconds have any material impact either in the assumption change or in the resilience. 43:52 43 minutes, 52 seconds Got it. Okay. Okay. Thanks and all the best. Thank you. 43:59 43 minutes, 59 seconds Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Deepan Kosh from city. Please go ahead. 44:08 44 minutes, 8 seconds Hi. Good evening. So few questions from my side. Uh first uh in terms of the uh banker channel and more specifically on 44:17 44 minutes, 17 seconds the non-HKFC banker uh channels. uh just wanted to get some sense of you know uh what's the direction or strategy when 44:24 44 minutes, 24 seconds you kind of think of these channels is it more growth focused or uh do you think you know the focus will be on more VNB countershare at these channels and 44:33 44 minutes, 33 seconds uh you know from the next 2-year perspective if you can give some color on that uh that's the first question uh the second question is on the product 44:40 44 minutes, 40 seconds pipeline and this is more in line with also the AGNI product that you have launched uh wanted to get some color you mentioned that there has been strong 44:48 44 minutes, 48 seconds traction initially uh if you think quantify or give some color around that and also in terms of the refinement from 44:55 44 minutes, 55 seconds the non-part products at your desk if you could kind of elaborate on that uh and the product pipeline uh alongside on the nonpart and NVT site I mean if you 45:03 45 minutes, 3 seconds can kind of sum it up yeah I'll take the question on the uh on the non-hank banker channels so the 45:11 45 minutes, 11 seconds focus for all channels uh for us is is very clear that uh it is to go for growth subject to a certain BNB and 45:19 45 minutes, 19 seconds below a certain BNB we we choose at times not to participate on on a certain uh let's say segment or or let's say 45:26 45 minutes, 26 seconds particular channel also so so the the focus remains same across channels and that's the reason why you would see that you know certain parts in quarter 4 uh 45:35 45 minutes, 35 seconds we did slow down in certain channels uh so that I think remains consistent across channels and same is the reason why you know you see a higher focus on 45:42 45 minutes, 42 seconds our uh agency and the proprietary business where we have seen you know faster growth coming 45:51 45 minutes, 51 seconds So products a couple of things one is uh a was basically the first uh variable entity product uh that was introduced 45:58 45 minutes, 58 seconds and uh this absolutely contributed to our share of entity mix increasing meaningfully in this period and it was 46:05 46 minutes, 5 seconds launched towards uh in the last quarter so we expect that to become a fullstream product uh going into FI27 and beyond 46:13 46 minutes, 13 seconds and uh as as as we understand more of the product category We would uh want more uh potential for innovation in this 46:21 46 minutes, 21 seconds category as the regulator allows us to use more instruments that will enable a better customer proposition while we 46:28 46 minutes, 28 seconds manage our risks appropriately. It's it's a it's a win-win from a customer perspective for anyone who is reasonably affluent. We've launched this we've launched this product at a ticket size 46:36 46 minutes, 36 seconds of 25 lakh and above to ensure that the customer clearly understands what they're buying and it's not a completely guaranteed product. It's guaranteed up 46:45 46 minutes, 45 seconds to a point after which the customer participates in the upside because of the asset allocation that we able to do uh in the product and uh that is 46:53 46 minutes, 53 seconds something that we believe is is here to stay from a customer who is uh reasonably affluent and savvy and is uh 47:01 47 minutes, 1 second not dependent on the entire annual annuity stream to uh you know maintain monthly expenses. So that was really the thought process behind it and there'll 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds be a lot more to come in this space. As far as nonpart savings is concerned, I think a few things that we are basically 47:17 47 minutes, 17 seconds looking to add to our flagship click to achieve series and uh a large part of it is to do with giving more flexibility to 47:24 47 minutes, 24 seconds customers. Uh looking at uh customer segments a little more granularly to see what we can do in terms of uh affording 47:32 47 minutes, 32 seconds more options to customers as well as getting more competitive. And over a period of time uh as as the asset side of the market develops there'll be more 47:41 47 minutes, 41 seconds options that will kind of come through in each of these uh categories. So uh I guess a lot of things will be happening behind the scenes which is uh you know 47:50 47 minutes, 50 seconds uh just ready to take advantage of a more uh favorable interest rate environment as we step into 27. uh and 47:58 47 minutes, 58 seconds the volatility on the equity side uh so far has not really dampened uh uh unit linked demand but uh we we we'll wait 48:07 48 minutes, 7 seconds and see how that kind of goes on as we go forward. Asset allocation is is currently unfortunately out of fashion but that's something that we expect to 48:15 48 minutes, 15 seconds normalize in the next uh 12 to 24 months when that happens uh with the suite of products that we have and more in the 48:22 48 minutes, 22 seconds pipeline we expect the category to do extremely well. Uh thanks just one small follow up this uh uh variable annuity 48:29 48 minutes, 29 seconds product propositions how are the margins in these products I mean compared to in this uh company level margins uh they'll be higher than company level 48:37 48 minutes, 37 seconds margins uh got it uh thank you and all the best thank you 48:45 48 minutes, 45 seconds thank you our next question comes from the line of Shria Shivani from Namira please go ahead uh thank you for the opportunity uh my 48:54 48 minutes, 54 seconds first question is A couple of questions on the EV walk, EV and VNB walk basically. Uh so shouldn't the GST and 49:02 49 minutes, 2 seconds labor code impact be an assumption change because it's a permanent change rather than a variance. Um also uh 49:10 49 minutes, 10 seconds comparing to one of your peers uh there is no impact of the yield curve movement on your VNB walk. What is the thought process behind this? If you can explain 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds that and has the persistency assumption changes caused uh a a sharp movement in your persistency sensitivity from your 49:27 49 minutes, 27 seconds sensitivity analysis uh table uh these are on my EV walk just one question on the growth outlook on the competitive landscape etc uh to vibha I mean one way 49:36 49 minutes, 36 seconds of dealing with um the competitive landscape is obviously what you're doing going granular and trying to find a different kind of pricing for your 49:44 49 minutes, 44 seconds product etc. Uh however expanding beyond our obvious markets uh expanding into 49:51 49 minutes, 51 seconds deeper pockets or markets where uh only few players operate uh isn't that something which we would be focused on 49:58 49 minutes, 58 seconds for a from a longer term period not not for FI27 but if I ask you about next 5 years shouldn't that be one of your strategies knowing that the competitive 50:07 50 minutes, 7 seconds landscape can be quite volatile in the urban uh tier one markets. Yeah sorry those are my questions. 50:16 50 minutes, 16 seconds Yes, on the EV work, the GST impact is uh the impact on the existing business because 50:23 50 minutes, 23 seconds uh there is no input tax rate on the renewable commission and the maintenance expenses. So that is a one-time impact and it is external environmental impact. 50:32 50 minutes, 32 seconds That's why it's shown as an other operating change or variance. 50:36 50 minutes, 36 seconds uh the loss of the input tax credit on the new business which is part of as you said the business model is captured in the 50:45 50 minutes, 45 seconds VNB which is within the uh embedded value operating profit or within the embedded value walk before the one-off so the one-off is actually only oneoff 50:53 50 minutes, 53 seconds it's only one time impact on the existing book so the thought process is that whatever is not within the internal environment or the business model of the 51:01 51 minutes, 1 second company that should be captured as a one-off operating variance And I'll just add to that uh sorry 51:08 51 minutes, 8 seconds before you move ahead uh and next year all of this will sit in the VNB for next year. So it'll become part of the business model entirely. This year since it happened mid year the backbook had to 51:17 51 minutes, 17 seconds do what it had. Yeah the closing EV will be the opening EV for next year and next year the entire impact as N mentioned will be in the if at all there any 51:24 51 minutes, 24 seconds impact has not absorbed it will be in the BNB in the NBM or the BNB work. uh the impact of any 51:33 51 minutes, 33 seconds um the net impact of changes in interest rate, changes in product sizing, product features, other assumptions etc is 51:40 51 minutes, 40 seconds captured in the product profile. The reason we don't call out economic assumption change separately is that it's not that during the entire year we 51:50 51 minutes, 50 seconds will not do anything if the changes are uh the interest rates are going up or down. There will be a lot of dynamic changes in the pricing. It will be very 51:57 51 minutes, 57 seconds difficult to capture the impact of assumption change assuming that everything stayed the same. So the net impact if the spreads have gone up and 52:04 52 minutes, 4 seconds you not repriced it to that extent it will be increase in NB that will be captured in the product profile. 52:09 52 minutes, 9 seconds Similarly if the interest rates go down and you still not repric it for whatever reason that will be a negative and that will be again captured in the product profile. So this is a thought process we have been following for many years now. 52:19 52 minutes, 19 seconds There's no change in the way we have been uh showing this impacts. Sure. 52:28 52 minutes, 28 seconds Yeah. On the persistency sensitivity, uh there are two things which is resulting in a higher sensitivity. One is the uh 52:35 52 minutes, 35 seconds proportion of UL has gone up from compared to last year. uh hence higher sensitivity and also because of this 52:42 52 minutes, 42 seconds changes the surrender value regulations even the non-link products the persistency uh will have an impact on the uh EV or 52:50 52 minutes, 50 seconds the margin because unlike earlier where there was some laps profits or surrender profits the person didn't stay for the 52:58 52 minutes, 58 seconds scheduled policy term here there is going to be an impact on the margin that's why there is a higher sensitivity sure hope that's clear. 53:08 53 minutes, 8 seconds Yeah. Yeah. That that's uh very clear. Thank you. 53:11 53 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. And to take your question on getting deeper into deeper into uh uh 53:18 53 minutes, 18 seconds into interior India, that's exactly what we're doing and to uh remind you that one of the reasons for us to have 53:26 53 minutes, 26 seconds acquired Excel life was just that because we felt that that was not uh expressly our core competency. It was 53:33 53 minutes, 33 seconds happening more because of some of our distributors were there but we uh formulated an entire go to market 53:41 53 minutes, 41 seconds strategy in tier 2 and three and I'm happy to share that more than 72% of our customers acquired in this financial 53:48 53 minutes, 48 seconds year FI26 uh they were new to SFC life and if I were to look at tier uh two tier two and 53:56 53 minutes, 56 seconds three grew faster than tier one uh also if I were to look at say our agency channel 54:03 54 minutes, 3 seconds every metric. So our FC baseased the financial consultant base if you look at it um so the growth there there was 33% 54:12 54 minutes, 12 seconds growth the tier three there was a 42% growth our agent additions were in line with similar kind of numbers our 54:20 54 minutes, 20 seconds marketing collaterals u using of AI so that every every local language and dialect is possible from right from 54:28 54 minutes, 28 seconds training to servicing um even our ads if you see uh for the first time this year 54:34 54 minutes, 34 seconds we have used like in say in West Bengal we have used local uh leading personalities as against national so uh 54:43 54 minutes, 43 seconds what you're saying is uh you know we've already well on on that path having said that it's never all easy because the 54:51 54 minutes, 51 seconds profiles are not as don't have as much data uh so there will be two steps forward one step back but I think we are 54:59 54 minutes, 59 seconds now in a position of reasonable amount of confidence that within tier 2 and we what are the profiles that we are comfortable underwriting and that will 55:07 55 minutes, 7 seconds only increase as we get more and more data. Another data point is that uh as you know we've been opening branches you 55:15 55 minutes, 15 seconds know over 212 plus branches over the past 24 uh to 36 months and happy to share that in our agency channel for 55:23 55 minutes, 23 seconds example 13% of the business now comes from the branches that we opened uh in 55:30 55 minutes, 30 seconds that time frame. So we have a holistic strategy uh of exactly like you're saying that to be among the top three 55:39 55 minutes, 39 seconds movers into that space rather than only operating in a more crowded metro salaried kind of space. I mean just one thing I'll add to what Baba mentioned is 55:47 55 minutes, 47 seconds that we've uh we we are aware as we step into the smaller markets that the time for the branches to get as productive as in the larger markets is a lot higher 55:56 55 minutes, 56 seconds maybe one and a half times more but we've not shied away from making all these investments. So it's just that the time frame from which we get these returns is a little longer than we would 56:04 56 minutes, 4 seconds get from a you know larger branch. So both of these happen in parallel and the trade-offs and basically the the payoff 56:13 56 minutes, 13 seconds periods from both of these can vary but uh like you rightly mentioned I think as you go deeper into India there is uh I 56:20 56 minutes, 20 seconds guess more sanity as far as uh the competitive intensity is concerned given the obvious uh you know costs involved 56:28 56 minutes, 28 seconds in going deeper as well as the brand recognition. So we we do uh we we do understand that uh that is an advantage that that we have and we plan to build on that as we go forward. 56:38 56 minutes, 38 seconds Yeah, that that's very clear and it makes a lot of sense. Uh thank you so much for and all the best. 56:46 56 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. You are requested to please limit yourselves to one question only. 56:53 56 minutes, 53 seconds Our next question comes from the line of Miss Chin Chawat from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Hi uh thanks for taking my uh questions. 57:02 57 minutes, 2 seconds Uh you know you you mentioned that you know the counter share at LTFC bank in fourth quarter was lower than 9 months 57:09 57 minutes, 9 seconds but uh if you could give any color as to you know what it was for the entire financial year and uh you know uh how 57:16 57 minutes, 16 seconds does that sort of compare with uh you know the broad guidance of two third counters here at HDFC Bank over the medium term. 57:25 57 minutes, 25 seconds Yeah. So, so we were in mid60s the year before and this year we would have closed at early 60s. 57:33 57 minutes, 33 seconds And I mean how does the conversation go? 57:35 57 minutes, 35 seconds Is it something that it it kind of reverts over time or you know or does it is it something that that there could be 57:42 57 minutes, 42 seconds some kind of a you know uh you know kind of downward revision to this? How does how does how does it work? 57:50 57 minutes, 50 seconds And no so conversations are are not only around share because the share it's an open architecture platform and you know it's on on the ground in every branch 57:59 57 minutes, 59 seconds and every segment is is you know where we uh are competing like a normal uh insurance player and uh and basis that 58:07 58 minutes, 7 seconds is what you know we were earlier on during this call also with the various questions we were answering that we have we know actually at a granular level which are the places which are the 58:16 58 minutes, 16 seconds cohorts that you know we would have let go of which led to this loss of share and uh and if we need to compete back we also know what it takes to compete back. 58:24 58 minutes, 24 seconds So uh so I think from that angle it's not about a conversation it's more about what business we want to and what business we we let go. 58:33 58 minutes, 33 seconds So you know and I recollect at the beginning of last year uh you know you budgeted for around I think I think 14% 58:40 58 minutes, 40 seconds odd growth uh you know somehow destiny had other plans but uh you know when you start this year given the uncertainties 58:48 58 minutes, 48 seconds that are around you know how do you budget uh you know for FI27 growth what would be like your starting point so uh exactly like you said nish 14 58:58 58 minutes, 58 seconds actually it we had said 12 to 13% but uh okay I think low double digits growth is what We've said now with all this uncertainty. Exactly. And we've been 59:06 59 minutes, 6 seconds here before in terms of when COVID was there and so on. I think we'll just uh take it a month at a time in terms of planning. Uh it's really volatile. What 59:15 59 minutes, 15 seconds we will attempt to do is grow slightly faster than the sector and and focus while doing that focus on some of the 59:23 59 minutes, 23 seconds tailwinds that we have on protection. We talked about some of the products like Agni. um we will really focus on 59:30 59 minutes, 30 seconds maximizing that tier 2 and three as well uh the traction because it's not as crowded as some of the other markets. So I think uh that's what we will focus on 59:38 59 minutes, 38 seconds rather than trying to put a number because a number means that you're going to you know you're investing resources and so on up front. Uh I think it's a little bit too volatile a situation. 59:50 59 minutes, 50 seconds Fair enough. And just last one uh you know do you think that this is the right environment for nonpart to pick up over your lips even given the way the bond 59:59 59 minutes, 59 seconds deals have moved and you know you can probably leave it up that in terms of operating higher IRS so I think so uh n you want to add 1:00:07 1 hour, 7 seconds yeah absolutely we've been waiting n but uh it's it's not happened given you know the flows continue on uh on the equity side which is again we have no problem 1:00:16 1 hour, 16 seconds with that we'll take all the growth that comes in unit linked as well given that we now have an operating model that works. But uh yeah, it's it's a bit 1:00:23 1 hour, 23 seconds puzzling to us as well that uh you know given the environment and given the uncertainty in the and the returns in the equity side in the short term uh 1:00:32 1 hour, 32 seconds customers are still you know ignoring asset allocation. So that's something which which I guess uh like uh you know 1:00:39 1 hour, 39 seconds we discussed earlier we already with multiple product options for customers and uh we we uh we absolutely believe 1:00:46 1 hour, 46 seconds this year I think the nonpar take up should be higher than what it was last year. It's a bit puzzling why it hasn't happened already. 1:00:53 1 hour, 53 seconds Uh but but do you think the demand is elastic to IRS? 1:00:57 1 hour, 57 seconds Uh no we do not believe so to some extent yes where an extreme situation where I mean someone's putting 100 basis points more than me. of course they're 1:01:04 1 hour, 1 minute, 4 seconds going to buy that product. But uh the thing is if within a band of like in protection 15 20% up and down it is not 1:01:12 1 hour, 1 minute, 12 seconds elastic. It is driven by multiple things including brand preference and uh as long as we in the zone we are okay. So in IR I'll give you an example of 1:01:21 1 hour, 1 minute, 21 seconds annuities. annoties all the major players three of us who are 90 odd% of the market are pretty much you know fairly close to each other because that 1:01:29 1 hour, 1 minute, 29 seconds is the pricing that makes sense and the customers choose based on their preference and uh the distribution outreach of each of the players. So 1:01:36 1 hour, 1 minute, 36 seconds similarly on nonpar I think uh maybe barring one or two players you find everyone in from a mix perspective being anywhere between 15 to 20% of their 1:01:45 1 hour, 1 minute, 45 seconds product mixes in on par. So that tells you that uh up to a particular point uh you know pricing would would matter but 1:01:53 1 hour, 1 minute, 53 seconds uh once you in a range then it it multiple other things take over. So it's not completely elastic to some extent when there is an outlier pricing 1:02:02 1 hour, 2 minutes, 2 seconds definitely there'll be some demand that gravitates towards it. 1:02:06 1 hour, 2 minutes, 6 seconds Uh Got it. Got it. Thank you very much and all the best. Thank you. 1:02:12 1 hour, 2 minutes, 12 seconds Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Supraatim Data from Jeffre. Please go ahead. 1:02:19 1 hour, 2 minutes, 19 seconds Um thanks for the opportunity. So my one question is on the rider attachment. So could you let us know what is the 1:02:26 1 hour, 2 minutes, 26 seconds current rider attachment rate that you have and you know how much further can this be increased and if the ULIP demand 1:02:34 1 hour, 2 minutes, 34 seconds you know comes off and that's replaced by nonpar could you do the same thing as increasing the summer with nonpar 1:02:42 1 hour, 2 minutes, 42 seconds products as well could you know the kind the similar strategy work there as well and uh how what proportion of the ULIP 1:02:50 1 hour, 2 minutes, 50 seconds policies currently has this higher summer assured if you could give us some around these three things that would be very helpful. Thank you. 1:02:57 1 hour, 2 minutes, 57 seconds Yeah. So I'll start with the last question. We have it highlighted in investor presentation as well. About 1/4 of the uniting business that we sell comes with higher summer short and uh we 1:03:06 1 hour, 3 minutes, 6 seconds started our journey about uh maybe 3 years back with a lot of education internally and uh putting our systems and processes in place to ensure a 1:03:13 1 hour, 3 minutes, 13 seconds seamless experience for customers. uh about uh even as you know far back as a year ago year and a half back the 1:03:21 1 hour, 3 minutes, 21 seconds attachment uh if the rider AP was less than 1% of unit link premiums today it's at least five to six times that and it's 1:03:29 1 hour, 3 minutes, 29 seconds it's only increasing with the number of riders that we able to uh you know uh bring to the table with customers opting for a combination of high riders as well 1:03:38 1 hour, 3 minutes, 38 seconds as uh uh higher levels of some short so I think uh as of now we we have all the options options from a customer 1:03:46 1 hour, 3 minutes, 46 seconds perspective whether they want to take a higher level of protection in the base summer itself or they want to have the option of taking a rider and uh that's 1:03:56 1 hour, 3 minutes, 56 seconds something that I guess we'll continue as we go forward as well on the savings as in nonpar products we've not seen a very 1:04:03 1 hour, 4 minutes, 3 seconds uh significant take up of riders yet because uh the thought process there is is a little more uh uh you know 1:04:12 1 hour, 4 minutes, 12 seconds different compared to when someone is uh looking to buy a uniting product. We we trying to see how we can improve our attachment ratios on other than uniting 1:04:20 1 hour, 4 minutes, 20 seconds products as well. But that's still a work in progress. On standalone protection like Viva mentioned earlier on the call uh there is a fairly 1:04:28 1 hour, 4 minutes, 28 seconds significant uh you know uh uptake of uh pure or non- returnturn of premium products this year given the GST change. 1:04:37 1 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds Return of premium is also doing reasonably well. It's just that uh the the full impact of the GST price has uh uh you know shown itself in a higher 1:04:46 1 hour, 4 minutes, 46 seconds demand for pure uh nonroop products. So I think having a suite of each of these uh at at scale definitely helps 1:04:54 1 hour, 4 minutes, 54 seconds depending on whatever choice the customer may want to make. 1:04:59 1 hour, 4 minutes, 59 seconds Got it. And you know at the overall at level what would be the proportion of riders? 1:05:05 1 hour, 5 minutes, 5 seconds So again we've I think spoken uh earlier and on the call 7% is our uh pure protection by itself uh and individual 1:05:13 1 hour, 5 minutes, 13 seconds business and adding writers it comes to 10%. 1:05:15 1 hour, 5 minutes, 15 seconds Uh so I think you can attribute about 3 odd% of our AP to that. Understood. Thank you. 1:05:25 1 hour, 5 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Sankit God from Vendis Park. Please go ahead. 1:05:32 1 hour, 5 minutes, 32 seconds Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Um so so Viba N the question is uh that that uh you told that in fourth quarter 1:05:40 1 hour, 5 minutes, 40 seconds you lost market share compared to 9 months in bank. So so is it fair to say that the the competitive intensity actually increased and that's the reason 1:05:48 1 hour, 5 minutes, 48 seconds we lost the market share and if if if given FRS forbearance is accepted. uh is it uh are you confident that uh that the 1:05:57 1 hour, 5 minutes, 57 seconds growth might come back to mid- teens kind of a level next year or or whatever the pain has to be taken with respect to 1:06:03 1 hour, 6 minutes, 3 seconds non-par uh un unviable business as has already been there in the current year and and on a lower base that that should 1:06:11 1 hour, 6 minutes, 11 seconds look little better going ahead and therefore the growth can come. So so any any color on those lines will be very useful to understand the grow growth trajectory going ahead. 1:06:22 1 hour, 6 minutes, 22 seconds Uh so sed difficult to given the environment difficult to put a number in terms of what uh growth comes ahead. Uh as far as uh the specific question in 1:06:31 1 hour, 6 minutes, 31 seconds terms of within HDFC bank competitive intensity increase in quarter 4 uh yes uh do we expect that to continue into FI27 and 1:06:39 1 hour, 6 minutes, 39 seconds beyond? We do not believe so for all the reasons we mentioned because uh sustainable growth profitable growth 1:06:45 1 hour, 6 minutes, 45 seconds which which is capital efficient uh has to be done in a manner which which kind of makes sense even if you have a lower 1:06:53 1 hour, 6 minutes, 53 seconds profitability threshold. So like like we mentioned we don't have to be you know present in all the segments at all 1:07:01 1 hour, 7 minutes, 1 second points in time. There will be opportunities available to do a lot more granular work to get our counter share where we would like it to be. And uh 1:07:10 1 hour, 7 minutes, 10 seconds that's something that we already working on. We discussed geographies we discussed kind of branches. We discussed customer segments. uh whatever applies 1:07:17 1 hour, 7 minutes, 17 seconds at an overall level will apply to HDFC Bank also in terms of our approach to get our compressor back up uh to where 1:07:23 1 hour, 7 minutes, 23 seconds we would like to see it. So u we we not going to be stuck into uh unreasonable uh things that are happening on the 1:07:32 1 hour, 7 minutes, 32 seconds ground. We will push ourselves definitely we'll do our trade-offs between growth and profitability and keep challenging ourselves in terms of are we missing something which which 1:07:40 1 hour, 7 minutes, 40 seconds makes sense. We've done that in the past. We'll do that again. But uh anything that absolutely looks uh you know u manageable from our perspective 1:07:48 1 hour, 7 minutes, 48 seconds we will not step into even now. So that's that's our thought process. 1:07:53 1 hour, 7 minutes, 53 seconds Uh okay but but but given given u maybe maybe the capital will come in and maybe subdate rates will will it give a bit of 1:08:00 1 hour, 8 minutes little more comfort or gunpowder to to be little more competitive compared to what you were in the current year. Maybe there was a border category business you you missed you chose to not to do it but 1:08:09 1 hour, 8 minutes, 9 seconds but with the capital will will that that process might change at at the fringe level. 1:08:18 1 hour, 8 minutes, 18 seconds So uh I I I think we will certainly see we we have enough gunpowder to be competitive but for different reasons not necessarily because capital has come 1:08:26 1 hour, 8 minutes, 26 seconds in. capital has come in for growth in the normal scheme of thing because RBC is uh probably like I said likely to come after IFRS roll out has happened. 1:08:37 1 hour, 8 minutes, 37 seconds So it's more tied over that there are quite a few things exactly like uh we did in the case of protection which was 1:08:46 1 hour, 8 minutes, 46 seconds really being nuanced on driving the narrative rather than being forced into doing uh things that we not comfortable 1:08:55 1 hour, 8 minutes, 55 seconds doing or don't see the end game in doing all these things. So um you'll have to just wait and watch because again not everything can be disclosed on a call 1:09:03 1 hour, 9 minutes, 3 seconds like this. But yes, we're not just sitting and waiting until the whole thing blows over. But uh yes, there are many many things that uh at least three 1:09:11 1 hour, 9 minutes, 11 seconds or four things up our sleeve uh to to maneuver the narrative in a direction that we want to. Oh, and and and and 1:09:20 1 hour, 9 minutes, 20 seconds just in terms of a giving little bit of color is that we are looking very very granular with our data to see which 1:09:28 1 hour, 9 minutes, 28 seconds customers we can be uh we can take a not aggressive but a calculated call and which ones we absolutely want to avoid. 1:09:38 1 hour, 9 minutes, 38 seconds So it's it's it's not one size fits all. 1:09:45 1 hour, 9 minutes, 45 seconds Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Pesh Jen from Motila Losfar Financial Services. Please go ahead. 1:09:54 1 hour, 9 minutes, 54 seconds Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. uh the question is on you know again probably uh the HBSC bank uh channel and I think 1:10:02 1 hour, 10 minutes, 2 seconds that's been something which been discussed quite a bit but just one more angle to it whether commission uh that the competitors are paying to HDFC bank 1:10:11 1 hour, 10 minutes, 11 seconds does that also come into equation where uh you know the the the share or uh has 1:10:18 1 hour, 10 minutes, 18 seconds come down come down for us uh so that's that's one uh second uh when you say that you know the capital raise will 1:10:26 1 hour, 10 minutes, 26 seconds give you additional solveny of 900 uh basis points. Uh do you also build in the additional debt that you can raise 1:10:34 1 hour, 10 minutes, 34 seconds via uh by the bonds uh to to to build that in capital and lastly on commission 1:10:42 1 hour, 10 minutes, 42 seconds regulations if any that comes through you know how would the kind of things play out with your primary partner which is a GFC bank. 1:10:52 1 hour, 10 minutes, 52 seconds So on commissions uh it's everything is identical uh over here um yes product 1:10:59 1 hour, 10 minutes, 59 seconds mix uh we do as you know we do calibrate product mix so we will choose the segments in which we want to be 1:11:08 1 hour, 11 minutes, 8 seconds materially present u to give you an example if unit linked at a low sum assured multiple is the name of the game 1:11:16 1 hour, 11 minutes, 16 seconds or or lower premium pay payment term then we might take a back seat like we have done you know like two premium 1:11:24 1 hour, 11 minutes, 24 seconds payment term at full commercials and so on is something that don't see the endgame in that. So so 1:11:32 1 hour, 11 minutes, 32 seconds it's not that the headline uh commercials are different. No, they are not identical. However, it's some of the nuances of products that could vary. Uh 1:11:41 1 hour, 11 minutes, 41 seconds that's uh point number one. Um and um as regards the outlook in terms of 1:11:48 1 hour, 11 minutes, 48 seconds commission regulations and so on, I think we'll have to wait and watch. We have had since you're asking specifically about our primary partner. 1:11:57 1 hour, 11 minutes, 57 seconds Uh it's not that we haven't been having conversations on whatif scenarios and they're fully aware and they also at city sit at the board. So they're fully 1:12:06 1 hour, 12 minutes, 6 seconds aware of many different possible scenarios and you know what uh what might be viable, what might require tweaks uh to business model and so on. 1:12:18 1 hour, 12 minutes, 18 seconds Like I said um in the medium term whatever it is see the demand for insurance is not a figment of our 1:12:25 1 hour, 12 minutes, 25 seconds imagination exactly like what the way demand really took off with this GST cut as far as protection. So that demand is 1:12:33 1 hour, 12 minutes, 33 seconds certainly there. How one taps it through what kind of products in a new environment if there is one is something 1:12:40 1 hour, 12 minutes, 40 seconds that we will quickly um uh look at and uh and collaborate with our partners to for it to be a win-win 1:12:48 1 hour, 12 minutes, 48 seconds and pre if you just quickly repeat your question on that solveny you asked about whether there is capacity to raise update answer is yes uh we could raise 1:12:56 1 hour, 12 minutes, 56 seconds on the back of thousand cr of equity we could raise 500 cr of subdate which will give us an additional 4% as in when we believe it would be required or we want 1:13:04 1 hour, 13 minutes, 4 seconds to just uh exercise that option. Was there any other question? 1:13:16 1 hour, 13 minutes, 16 seconds Uh does it answer your question? Yeah. 1:13:19 1 hour, 13 minutes, 19 seconds So together these two could be 1300 depths, right? 1:13:23 1 hour, 13 minutes, 23 seconds Uh that's correct. 13 to 14. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's it. 1:13:28 1 hour, 13 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you for Okay. Thank you. 1:13:31 1 hour, 13 minutes, 31 seconds Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Vinod Rajamani from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead. 1:13:39 1 hour, 13 minutes, 39 seconds Yeah. Uh thank you for taking my questions. So I have uh I have one question on uh retail protection. So uh 1:13:45 1 hour, 13 minutes, 45 seconds what proportion of buyers would you say uh on retail protection are firsttime buyers? Uh is there any uh sense that 1:13:53 1 hour, 13 minutes, 53 seconds you're getting that the um you know the addressable new to insurance kind of pool that pool is kind of getting is is 1:14:01 1 hour, 14 minutes, 1 second that thinning or you know is that getting a little saturated? Uh how should we think of that and what is the kind of sustainable um quarterly kind of 1:14:10 1 hour, 14 minutes, 10 seconds protection protection growth rate into FY27? Uh uh so that that's the question I had on protection. 1:14:18 1 hour, 14 minutes, 18 seconds Yeah. So it's it's uh very very encouraging to see that post GST about 80% of the protection business is new to 1:14:26 1 hour, 14 minutes, 26 seconds HDC life customers that we saw and uh as Viva mentioned in her opening comments we basically seeing a fair bit of demand 1:14:34 1 hour, 14 minutes, 34 seconds uh across uh different uh customer segments and uh also in terms of uh the the choices that they're making in terms 1:14:42 1 hour, 14 minutes, 42 seconds of taking full advantage of the GST uh cut to either buy more summer Or so basically even after the changing 1:14:51 1 hour, 14 minutes, 51 seconds price are we be able to maintain our average ticket size which basically tells you people are buying a lot more cover with uh you know uh the same 1:14:59 1 hour, 14 minutes, 59 seconds amount of money. They could have chosen to you know buy similar cover with lower premiums but most customers have not chosen to do that. So that's a very very 1:15:08 1 hour, 15 minutes, 8 seconds good sign. uh with all of this as well we in spite of all of this we are still fairly underinsured as as as a country 1:15:15 1 hour, 15 minutes, 15 seconds and the customer segments that that we believe require more insurance. So we far from saturated uh customers are 1:15:22 1 hour, 15 minutes, 22 seconds taking making different choices to buy protection. Some who are comfortable using the savings vehicle have these options that we've discussed earlier in 1:15:29 1 hour, 15 minutes, 29 seconds terms of riders or hire embedded some assured but a lot of young customers are taking pure protection products uh and 1:15:37 1 hour, 15 minutes, 37 seconds the GST change has been a fairly big cat there. 1:15:41 1 hour, 15 minutes, 41 seconds Yeah. Uh thank you for that. Uh the other question I had was on this um you know uh on the there's a specific 1:15:48 1 hour, 15 minutes, 48 seconds question on the HDFC bank channel. So uh is is the bank trying to kind of prioritize uh say uh dep prioritizing 1:15:58 1 hour, 15 minutes, 58 seconds nonpart savings? I mean u it's it's uh it's a trend which is kind of visible in terms of the fact that ulip share is 1:16:05 1 hour, 16 minutes, 5 seconds increasing uh uh has been increasing. So uh is the bank kind of is they do they see it as competing with deposit holders 1:16:14 1 hour, 16 minutes, 14 seconds and so on? Is that trend is is is that uh is that something just uh is that uh something which is being felt? 1:16:24 1 hour, 16 minutes, 24 seconds No, we haven't seen this kind of a let's say a a completely deliberated kind of a move towards one particular product mix. 1:16:32 1 hour, 16 minutes, 32 seconds Uh the ULIP mix is most uh mostly coming in from I think the demand from the customers and more more of an easier sale. uh especially you know certain 1:16:41 1 hour, 16 minutes, 41 seconds segments like we spoke about when you know uh you're able to configure rush water pay etc etc in Julius for certain 1:16:48 1 hour, 16 minutes, 48 seconds u uh by certain insurance companies. So I think that's the that's the reason why you've seen maybe a larger skew happening in in the ULIP side in HDFC 1:16:55 1 hour, 16 minutes, 55 seconds bank. uh I have not really seen uh the reason that you know this might be competing with a deposit or or that kind of nature and also we have always 1:17:03 1 hour, 17 minutes, 3 seconds focused on long-term uh guarantees long-term products which does do not really fall into the bank's uh uh competing uh for I mean they they work 1:17:11 1 hour, 17 minutes, 11 seconds on a medium-term kind of assured returns and our products have always focused on much longer term guarantees 1:17:20 1 hour, 17 minutes, 20 seconds right yeah so thank you those were the questions I had thank you thank Thank you. The next question comes 1:17:28 1 hour, 17 minutes, 28 seconds from the line of pages Takuna, an individual investor. Please go ahead. 1:17:33 1 hour, 17 minutes, 33 seconds Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. Uh what was the percentage contributions from uh LTFC 1:17:40 1 hour, 17 minutes, 40 seconds Banker channel in terms of in in the in the individual overall new business premium and the second one you mentioned 1:17:48 1 hour, 17 minutes, 48 seconds that uh the MFI sector growing and catching up in Q4. What was the growth that was registered in credit like new business premium business? 1:18:06 1 hour, 18 minutes, 6 seconds So uh I'll first take the MFI uh business. So MFI I think we saw the growth coming back in quarter 4. Quarter 4 MFI growth because there was also 1:18:14 1 hour, 18 minutes, 14 seconds subdued base last year was in in excess of 40%. While uh on an overall year basis I think we saw business growth of 1:18:23 1 hour, 18 minutes, 23 seconds about 13 odd percentage slightly slower than our CT growth but that's a full year full year number on the MFI base. 1:18:29 1 hour, 18 minutes, 29 seconds Uh on HDFC bank uh our uh NVP contribution on you know uh received premium is I think approximately about 40 odd%. 1:18:43 1 hour, 18 minutes, 43 seconds Thank you. 1:18:46 1 hour, 18 minutes, 46 seconds Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mjid Baryia from Samia Advisor LLP. Please go ahead. 1:18:54 1 hour, 18 minutes, 54 seconds Uh thank you Va. I had one question. Uh why did we not revisit our dividend policy and skip about 450 crores of dividend payout when we are 1:19:03 1 hour, 19 minutes, 3 seconds simultaneously looking to raise thousand crores in a primary issue. 1:19:07 1 hour, 19 minutes, 7 seconds See we do have a lot of retail investors close to 9 10 lakhs of retail investors that are pension funds. Um and so uh 1:19:16 1 hour, 19 minutes, 16 seconds it's not only for um you know when you look at banks let's take that example banks come to the market to raise 1:19:23 1 hour, 19 minutes, 23 seconds capital all the time and they pay dividends. So it's no different it's just that in life insurance the back 1:19:30 1 hour, 19 minutes, 30 seconds book so far has largely funded normal growth. Now protection here has been a 1:19:39 1 hour, 19 minutes, 39 seconds lot higher than in the past you know 17 18 years that I've been associated with the sector. That's a good problem to 1:19:46 1 hour, 19 minutes, 46 seconds have. However, it requires capital. So this is growth capital. If there was an issue in terms of some hole that is 1:19:53 1 hour, 19 minutes, 53 seconds caused because of some inefficiencies or something like that then maybe what you're saying could be considered. But 1:20:00 1 hour, 20 minutes this is growth capital no different from any other sector and this is business as usual as far as existing shareholders are concerned especially the retail shareholders I think that's how we had 1:20:09 1 hour, 20 minutes, 9 seconds to triangle it hence we've kept it flat uh so we've tried to balance the two objectives I understand that biba but actually you 1:20:17 1 hour, 20 minutes, 17 seconds know it's also indicative that the board would not want to raise primary unless we are at a fair price and given of the way our valuations have tracked over the 1:20:25 1 hour, 20 minutes, 25 seconds last few years now you're indirectly indicating that you know we are already at a fair So I mean ideally you don't want to do 1:20:32 1 hour, 20 minutes, 32 seconds that right I mean typically banks have raised a lot of capital have done at much higher valuation multiples than their fair valuation multiples but anyway I was just curious about that 1:20:40 1 hour, 20 minutes, 40 seconds thank you so much thank you the next question is from the 1:20:48 1 hour, 20 minutes, 48 seconds line of Nidesh Jen from invest please go ahead u thanks for the opportunity uh my question is a margin so this year we we 1:20:57 1 hour, 20 minutes, 57 seconds had a negative impact of 110 basis points because of GST and 20 basis point of surreners. So that should not recur 1:21:03 1 hour, 21 minutes, 3 seconds next year. So should starting margin should be higher than almost 130 basis point what we have shown in FI26. 1:21:16 1 hour, 21 minutes, 16 seconds So yeah I mean uh the GST impact is something that we will neutralize in the first half of next year. uh post that it is completely baked into the business 1:21:24 1 hour, 21 minutes, 24 seconds model and after that whatever delivery happens should be on that basis. So uh before GST 1:21:32 1 hour, 21 minutes, 32 seconds or rather uh I think end of Q Q3 we did mention that we'd like to get back to the levels of FI25 in the 25 plus% 1:21:41 1 hour, 21 minutes, 41 seconds range. Can we get to that? Uh we we possibly can but like I mentioned earlier on the call that's not something that we're going to prioritize. What 1:21:48 1 hour, 21 minutes, 48 seconds we're going to prioritize is to get the growth back to the handle that we are comfortable with and deliver VNB growth at least in line with that and if there 1:21:56 1 hour, 21 minutes, 56 seconds is any any uh potential and scope to expand margins beyond that absolutely we will try and do that but uh the priority will be to get growth back to where we would like it to be. 1:22:08 1 hour, 22 minutes, 8 seconds Sure. Uh thanks Mas. That's it from Thanks. 1:22:13 1 hour, 22 minutes, 13 seconds Thank you. There are no further questions from the participants. I now hand the conference over to Miss Viba Padulkar for closing comments. Over to you ma'am. 1:22:24 1 hour, 22 minutes, 24 seconds Thank you for joining us today. Should you have any follow-up questions, please feel free to reach out to our investor relations team. Have a good evening. 1:22:35 1 hour, 22 minutes, 35 seconds Thank you. On behalf of HDFC Life Insurance Company, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.