CreditAccess Grameen Ltd — Q4 FY26

CreditAccess Grameen Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_5E6d7ync Published: 5 days ago

0:02 2 seconds [clears throat] 0:03 3 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to credit access gramming Q4 and FI26 conference call. 0:11 11 seconds As a reminder, all participant line will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask question after the presentation conclude. Should you need assistant 0:19 19 seconds during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. 0:27 27 seconds Chintancha from ICSA securities. Thank you and over to you sir. 0:34 34 seconds Uh yeah uh thank you Danis. Uh welcome on behalf of ICS authorities. I'm 0:41 41 seconds pleased to welcome all to the Q4 FI26 results conference call of credit access grammine. uh first of all I would like 0:48 48 seconds to uh thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host their conference call and I would like to uh congratulate 0:56 56 seconds the team on a very strong set of numbers. Uh so from the uh management uh we have Mr. Ganesh Narayan managing 1:04 1 minute, 4 seconds director and chief executive officer then Mr. Guraj Rao chief operating uh officer then Mr. Nilles Dalvi chief financial officer and Mr. 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds uh Sharma DTM investor relations. Uh so now without further ado, I would now like to hand over the floor uh to MD and 1:25 1 minute, 25 seconds CEO sir. Uh thank you and over to you Ganesh. Thank you. Thank you so much. 1:32 1 minute, 32 seconds Uh very good evening to all of you and welcome to the conference call to discuss our fourth quarter and FI26 business performance. 1:42 1 minute, 42 seconds Tested by cycles, strength and by purpose. the theme that we've chosen for our investor presentation. This theme 1:49 1 minute, 49 seconds aptly captures our evolution into India's leading rural focused inclusive finance platform having delivered 1:56 1 minute, 56 seconds consistent performance despite multiple business and macroeconomic cycles. Over the past two years, we were navigating one of the most challenging environment. 2:07 2 minutes, 7 seconds We continue to work on the future and never lost sight of our long-term mission. Our performance trajectory over 2:14 2 minutes, 14 seconds the past four quarters not only evidences our recovery story but also validates our resilience as an institution. 2:24 2 minutes, 24 seconds Let me just check it's audible. 2:27 2 minutes, 27 seconds Yeah, the last time it didn't work right. Okay. Okay. Let me begin with where we stand today. Q4 FI26 marks a 2:36 2 minutes, 36 seconds decisive inflection in our performance trajectory. The AVM grew 14% year-on-year and 11.4% quarteron quarter 2:44 2 minutes, 44 seconds in line with the annual growth guidance despite 7.6% writeoffs made in FI26. 2:51 2 minutes, 51 seconds Dispersements in Q4 grew 28.4% 4% yearonear and 44.1% quarteron quarter to 2:59 2 minutes, 59 seconds 8313 cr while the full year developments came in at 24,859 cr up to up to 24.1%. 3:09 3 minutes, 9 seconds We continue to scale borrow acquisitions with 3.3 lakh borrowers added in Q4 while 9.8 lakh borrowers added in FI26 3:18 3 minutes, 18 seconds of which 38% were due to credit. Our portfolio growth was a combination of due to credit customers, guard rail 3:26 3 minutes, 26 seconds compliant borrowers and graduation of mintage borrowers to higher value retail finance products. Today the share of GM borrowers with greater than three 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds lenders has declined from 25.3% in August 24 to 3.3% in March 26. 3:43 3 minutes, 43 seconds Aum share of unique group loan borrowers stands at 46.1% up from 26.6%. 6% in August 24. The 3:52 3 minutes, 52 seconds share of retail has increased to 18.1% as of March 26, up from 5.9% a year ago. 4:01 4 minutes, 1 second This expansion is driven by deepening of relationships with our 44 lakh customer base and our ability to graduate them 4:08 4 minutes, 8 seconds through a curated product suite. We opened 183 branches to close with 2,236 4:16 4 minutes, 16 seconds branches by March 2026. Our employee days grew 4.6% yearonear to 21,941 4:25 4 minutes, 25 seconds with employee attrition moderating to 29.4% against 33.5% in the previous year. We 4:33 4 minutes, 33 seconds observed strong and accelerating digital adoption among our customers. Our customer app Grammy Mahi onboarded 8.4 4:41 4 minutes, 41 seconds lakh followers in FI26 taking the total active base to 11.2 lakh customers. 4:47 4 minutes, 47 seconds representing 25.4% of our borrower base. The proportion of digital collections increased year on 4:54 4 minutes, 54 seconds year from 14% in Q4 FI25 to 22% in Q4 FI26. 5:02 5 minutes, 2 seconds M expanded by 35 basis points quarteron quarter to 14.2 in Q4. Cost of borrowing further declined to 9.2% in Q4 marking a total 60 bits reduction during the year. 5:14 5 minutes, 14 seconds Our marginal cost of borrowing continued to remain around 8.9% in Q4. Liability diversification was on track with the 5:23 5 minutes, 23 seconds share of foreign borrowings increasing from 21% to 24.4%. 5:29 5 minutes, 29 seconds Cost to income ratio improved quarteron quarter to 30.4%. 5:34 5 minutes, 34 seconds Pop grew 23.1% yearonear and 14.7% quarteron quarter to 780 cr in Q4. when 5:43 5 minutes, 43 seconds PAT grew over 6x year on year and 34.7% quarter on quarter to 340 cr translating 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds to an ROA of 4.4% and an ROE of 17.8%. 5:58 5 minutes, 58 seconds A recovery story is marked by par accretion rate x bucket collection efficiency and par 1 to 90 bucket 6:06 6 minutes, 6 seconds reversing to precrisis levels gross NPA predominantly at 60 DPD stood at 3.17% net NPA at 1.12% and bar 90 at 2.28%. 6:18 6 minutes, 18 seconds Our balance sheet is strong with capital adequacy at 24.4% 4% total equity at 7,842 6:26 6 minutes, 26 seconds crit equity ratio at a conservative 3x considering the full year performance our peop 6:35 6 minutes, 35 seconds of 289 cr grew 6.5% yearon year we ended the year with 778 cr pat translating to 6:44 6 minutes, 44 seconds roa of 2.7 and roe of 10.7 while our peop was in line with the budget uh 6:51 6 minutes, 51 seconds credit cost ended at 6.74 as against the guidance of 5.5 to 6%. The 6.74% credit 6:59 6 minutes, 59 seconds cost consisted of 6.1% due to new park and 64 due to increase in ECL 7:07 7 minutes, 7 seconds provisioning rates aligning with the prevailing bing line we had gradually increased our ECM provisioning every 7:14 7 minutes, 14 seconds quarter. Further during Q4 we evolved our new ECL positioning model to capture fast data over a long period covering 7:23 7 minutes, 23 seconds various business scenarios and forward looking macroeconomic variables. We believe the new ECL model aligns with our conservative provisioning approach as our loan books case over medium-term. 7:35 7 minutes, 35 seconds Considering the ongoing West Asia crisis, the new ECL model has incorporated a higher weightage for 7:42 7 minutes, 42 seconds major external event scenario resulting into an additional positioning of 39 crores in Q4. The additional 64 credit 7:50 7 minutes, 50 seconds percentage credit cost due to increase in ECL rate resulting in marginal on the lower end of our ROE and ROE guidance of 2.9 and 11.8% respectively. 8:04 8 minutes, 4 seconds The past two years were genuinely difficult and we took structured steps to navigate through the challenging environment with discipline and 8:12 8 minutes, 12 seconds intentionality. We prioritize collections first then portfolio maintenance and only then growth. We stabilized our force through continuous 8:21 8 minutes, 21 seconds training. The leaders at the forefront approach and extensive hiring. We increased internal audit frequency from 8:30 8 minutes, 30 seconds 60 days to 40 days supported by real-time analytics. Senior leadership traveled extensively to provide onbound 8:38 8 minutes, 38 seconds direction and model support. We deployed a dedicated quality control team for targeted connections to support across 8:45 8 minutes, 45 seconds geographies. We accelerated digital capabilities raing mahi digital payment channels WhatsApp calling to maintain customer engagements beyond centerpiece. 8:57 8 minutes, 57 seconds What the past two years also demonstrated is that our return ratio through this MFI credit cycle were meaningfully higher than what we delivered through the COVID crisis. 9:06 9 minutes, 6 seconds Despite higher credit costs, our model has become more resilient with every passing crisis. 9:13 9 minutes, 13 seconds Let me step back and give you a 10-year context because it's important to frame how you should think about this business. FI7 to FI26, we have 9:23 9 minutes, 23 seconds compounded AVM at 28.6% peranom, disbbursements at 24.7% and PAT at 29.7%. 9:33 9 minutes, 33 seconds Our EP basis compounded at 32.7% from 613 cr to 7,842 9:40 9 minutes, 40 seconds cr three major external disruptions namely demonetization co and the recent MSI 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds credit cycle the cross cycle ro stands at 3.4% and roe at 13.9%. 9:55 9 minutes, 55 seconds We've achieved this while maintaining industryleading cost structures. 10:00 10 minutes Our internal economy has primarily funded our growth. That kind of self sustaining compounding is what we are committed to continue in the future. 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds Today we building a Google focused inclusive financing platform that serves the customer across multiple financial 10:15 10 minutes, 15 seconds needs over time. Starting with group based micro finance, we are extending into individual business loans, mortgage 10:23 10 minutes, 23 seconds back loans and two wheel financing, leveraging the trust our brand has built on the ground. We intend to selectively 10:30 10 minutes, 30 seconds add products aligned to our customer life cycle approach contingent on achieving scale in the newer business lines launched over the past three 10:38 10 minutes, 38 seconds years. Our focus remains on deepening these relationships responsibly while maintaining the credit discipline that defines our micro finance heritage. 10:48 10 minutes, 48 seconds India's rural and semi-urban micro retail credit market across segments is growing at double-digit rate. Came is 10:55 10 minutes, 55 seconds steadily evolving to target the vast and underpenetrated opportunity of serving the 23.5 cr low to middle inome 11:04 11 minutes, 4 seconds households by 2030. We are no longer in the business of financing only one woman per household. We are building the 11:11 11 minutes, 11 seconds capability to be the financial life cycle partner of the entire household across income statements, credits and 11:18 11 minutes, 18 seconds life. This is the transformation we are executing. Now I want to turn the strategic section of what we are 11:26 11 minutes, 26 seconds building because the opportunity ahead is significantly larger from than what we have addressed so far. Our customers are evolving. Their income profiles are 11:35 11 minutes, 35 seconds becoming diverse with multiple income streams adding resilience. The credit footprint is expanding with increased 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds access to var various retail finance products. We are strengthening our acquisition engines through three channels. Group based sourcing, 11:51 11 minutes, 51 seconds individual lending and digital through the Grammy Mahayak. Our focus markets are rural and city urban India with 11:58 11 minutes, 58 seconds continuous urban expansion and life cycle engine is designed to ensure that every customer we acquire deepends in 12:06 12 minutes, 6 seconds value over a period of time. The accelerator behind this engine are formidable, fast distribution reach, 12:13 12 minutes, 13 seconds dedicated food on street, localized intelligence, strong customer reference, trusted brand recall in every community 12:22 12 minutes, 22 seconds and a diverse product suite spanning the full life cycle. We strengthen our underwriting and controls to support a product diversification 12:30 12 minutes, 30 seconds leaguing both proprietary and bureo data. Centralized credit intelligence through business tool engine 12:37 12 minutes, 37 seconds branchbased credit is beyond undering a risk and audit framework is also evolving towards being predictive. Our 12:45 12 minutes, 45 seconds collections model is equally getting structured. Center meetings remain the primary touch point with more than 99% 12:52 12 minutes, 52 seconds of regular collections still happening there. Our customers are managed through discipline through a disciplinary 12:59 12 minutes, 59 seconds escalation protocol calibrated to each delinquency bucket. We piloted a collections management platform which 13:07 13 minutes, 7 seconds provides customer profiling geoloccation data visit logs and prioritization engine feeding into predictive next best 13:16 13 minutes, 16 seconds action decisioning. We're also working on enabling multi- channelannel customer engagement with center meetings as the anchor. The Grammy Mahi app for end to- 13:25 13 minutes, 25 seconds end digital journeys in vernacular languages, WhatsApp for self-service queries, Tele calling for graduation outreach and in-person relationship 13:33 13 minutes, 33 seconds results. Our technology architecture processes over 30 lakh transactions per day with 10 to 15 lakh loan repayments, 13:42 13 minutes, 42 seconds 20 to 25 lakh credit bureau submissions, 70 to 80,000 loan applications. 13:49 13 minutes, 49 seconds Looking ahead, our technology road map is focused on 3D picks, strengthening the core for performance, security, and 13:56 13 minutes, 56 seconds modern architecture, enabling our life cycle strategy through paperless journeys, single app visibility from 14:03 14 minutes, 3 seconds lead to connection, and vernacular self-service UX and making AI truly inclusive by embedding AI into 14:11 14 minutes, 11 seconds crediting, compliance monitoring, employee productivity, and voice- based customer engagement. We're not treating 14:18 14 minutes, 18 seconds AI as a future expedition. We are building it into our operations today. 14:23 14 minutes, 23 seconds As we enter FI 27 with a strength and foundation in our strategic priorities, improving return metrics, we are 14:31 14 minutes, 31 seconds confident in our ability to deliver sustained value to shareholders. 14:36 14 minutes, 36 seconds For FY27, we are guiding an AVM grade growth of 20 to 25%. Lim of 12.8 8 to 14:43 14 minutes, 43 seconds 13% cost to income of 33 to 35% credit cost of 3 to 4% ROA of 4 to 4.8% and an ROE of 16 to 20%. We've been tested. 14:57 14 minutes, 57 seconds We've been honest with our challenges and we've come through with stronger business, a more resilient risk framework, a clear strategic identity 15:06 15 minutes, 6 seconds and a much larger opportunity in front of us than behind us. 15:12 15 minutes, 12 seconds Over the coming decade, our ambition is to build a clear leadership position in inclusive finance space through a customer first approach. We call this transformation journey project shaky. 15:25 15 minutes, 25 seconds Inspired by strength, resilience and inspiration of our customers. We proudly serve. Project Shaki is not merely about 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds scaling the business. It is about creating a stronger future ready and more impactful institutions. Our focus 15:39 15 minutes, 39 seconds will be on deepening market reach, expanding household level relationships, increasing customer wallet share, and significantly enhancing our people, 15:48 15 minutes, 48 seconds technology, and AI capabilities, thereby positioning ourselves as one of the strongest players in the financial 15:55 15 minutes, 55 seconds inclusion space in the years to come. We would like to thank our investor and analyst community for their continued 16:03 16 minutes, 3 seconds trust and unwavering support. A special note of gratitude to our employees, particularly our field teams who have 16:10 16 minutes, 10 seconds consistently gone beyond the call of duty to protect and serve the interests of our stakeholders. Their commitment in challenging environments reflect the 16:19 16 minutes, 19 seconds true strength of our institution. I also take this opportunity to thank all our members who have continuously supported 16:28 16 minutes, 28 seconds uh for so many years and we hope that we deliver to their expectation. We are now open to the forum for questions. Thank you. 16:40 16 minutes, 40 seconds Thank you so much sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. 16:50 16 minutes, 50 seconds If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are request to use handsets while asking a question. 17:00 17 minutes Ladies and gentlemen, Sure. 17:07 17 minutes, 7 seconds No problem, sir. Take your time. 17:31 17 minutes, 31 seconds Are we audible? Yeah. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You are. 17:37 17 minutes, 37 seconds [clears throat] 17:38 17 minutes, 38 seconds Okay. 17:43 17 minutes, 43 seconds Anyone who wishes to ask a question or press star one. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the questions. 18:12 18 minutes, 12 seconds Our first question come from the line of Abijital from Mot. Please go ahead. 18:18 18 minutes, 18 seconds Yeah. Uh good evening. Uh thank you for taking your question and sure congratulations on a on a good quarter. 18:24 18 minutes, 24 seconds Uh so first question is around uh retail finance. Uh I'm just referring to slide 18:30 18 minutes, 30 seconds number 41. Within that I see that retail finance as a proportion of the the GP 18:39 18 minutes, 39 seconds mix has become three times on an average basis. It's 3.5 times obviously on a small base but very very clearly uh 18:48 18 minutes, 48 seconds other than those other products we are seeing individual uh loans growing much 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds faster. Um so so just trying to understand is the future of NMI moving towards individual loans which could 19:02 19 minutes, 2 seconds obviously be given as part of a group for operational efficiencies on sourcing and collections but without the G&G 19:09 19 minutes, 9 seconds safety net okay see uh very good evening uh we uh 19:18 19 minutes, 18 seconds while we've discussed the subject earlier too our thought process is that individual finance to graduate micros 19:26 19 minutes, 26 seconds customers is a clear way to progress and the growth in individual loans will look 19:33 19 minutes, 33 seconds larger because of the days like you said and it's initial time period as we start uh uh penetrating into a certain 19:41 19 minutes, 41 seconds proportion of customers which we believe roughly around 6 to 8% of our customer base we should be able to target convert to retail finance customers uh and as 19:50 19 minutes, 50 seconds the base increases it should slow down but we we we are of the firm belief that uh micro finance will continue to be as 19:58 19 minutes, 58 seconds an entry point and the better strategy is to pick up the good ones the ones which has established credit history and they're able to demonstrate better cash 20:07 20 minutes, 7 seconds flow to move into uh individual loans right so it will be calibrated growth and why Micros continues to grow 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds sir then the second question I had was around the guidance that you put out just trying to understand this time [clears throat] around Why such a wide 20:26 20 minutes, 26 seconds uh band in terms of the credit cost guidance 3 to 4% and within this uh as per your estimates what proportion of 20:34 20 minutes, 34 seconds this could be because of the higher ECA provision. 20:42 20 minutes, 42 seconds So uh we have yeah we have implemented a new ECL model this 20:49 20 minutes, 49 seconds you may have seen our stage one ECL has gone up to 1.65%. 20:54 20 minutes, 54 seconds And uh the current model it is most of a forwardlooking wherein we have also taken into account certain uh maybe 21:02 21 minutes, 2 seconds probable impact because of the ongoing uh global uh issues. So from that perspective obviously certain elements of that has already been baked in the current. 21:12 21 minutes, 12 seconds Nevertheless it's a evolving model and every quarter faces the uh external factors business factors as well as the 21:22 21 minutes, 22 seconds macro factors. we will be revisiting the ACL. So the broader end what we have from three to four it is primarily to 21:29 21 minutes, 29 seconds take into account all these uh evolities because we we need to see how what is 21:36 21 minutes, 36 seconds going to be the actual fallout of the global uh issues. uh while we also uh 21:44 21 minutes, 44 seconds are aware of a fact that our customer segment will be relatively much more resilient uh in in the current 21:52 21 minutes, 52 seconds environment. But at the same time we need to keep certain uh room to uh kind 21:58 21 minutes, 58 seconds of uh be uh we we need to keep certain room to kind of uh factor in certain uh 22:07 22 minutes, 7 seconds uh microeconomic uh uh effects etc. So that is the reason why we have kept a 22:14 22 minutes, 14 seconds broader range but largely we believe that we should be within this range because the current uh power accretion 22:21 22 minutes, 21 seconds rate is uh very much uh stable. Now we have seen full month of April and we are uh in the first week of May relatively 22:30 22 minutes, 30 seconds the trend what we have seen in fourth quarter it is holding. So we need to see I mean as we uh 22:37 22 minutes, 37 seconds set into the next year we'll be in better position to take away whether we are at the lower end of the guidance or at the higher end of the guidance largely uh we have kept that band up. 22:49 22 minutes, 49 seconds Thanks Mesh and just to follow up on that uh s I mean when you said just trying to understand April month like 22:57 22 minutes, 57 seconds Mesh mentioned has been in line with what we've been seeing in the fourth quarter. So in the times like this and especially in the context of the current 23:05 23 minutes, 5 seconds West Asia conflict I remember seeing a chart that you've given or maybe a slide that you have given in the presentation where we have showed that in this cycle 23:14 23 minutes, 14 seconds we have done better than old. So at times like this if there is an economic impact do we also see our segment of 23:22 23 minutes, 22 seconds customers coming across as vulnerable or like Mesh mentioned they will come across as more resilient given the the 23:30 23 minutes, 30 seconds more rural exposure and the kind of uh various work that they are in. 23:37 23 minutes, 37 seconds Typically we have seen our customers segment specifically to be more resilient but we'll have to see what 23:44 23 minutes, 44 seconds happens for in case of prolonged disruptions uh with respect to uh you know ongoing global scenario uh any 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds temporary issues I think we should be able to manage very strongly but say for example if there is no supply of fuel or 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second gas for months then what happens so so those are things that we have to be little prepared for and budgeted a little more around that and I think at 24:10 24 minutes, 10 seconds this point of time while we don't anticipate something like that since the evolution of the model is such that we have to take into account certain risk 24:18 24 minutes, 18 seconds weightage for external events we've built a cushion around it right so now what happens subsequently whether ends 24:25 24 minutes, 25 seconds or it has a larger impact on the country but just that we are a little more prepared in case something is that's 24:32 24 minutes, 32 seconds what it means thank you so much for patiently answering on the question. So I wish you and your team very best. Thank you. 24:44 24 minutes, 44 seconds Thank you. 24:46 24 minutes, 46 seconds Our next question come from the line of Aravind Ravi Chandran from Sundam alternates. Please go ahead. 24:53 24 minutes, 53 seconds Yeah. Uh thank you so much for the opportunity and uh congratulations with the very good set of numbers. uh just like to understand like the overall 25:01 25 minutes, 1 second guidance given on growth, margins and everything does it include even like for example like you know you know bond market borrowing rates have you know 25:09 25 minutes, 9 seconds moved up and down like you know uh we have seen much of vol like we considered all those things in our guidance like uh 25:17 25 minutes, 17 seconds that is one question and another question uh uh you know from the first uh from the first part like uh you know 25:24 25 minutes, 24 seconds our power rates are much lower than like you know what we seeing in the like in the last few quarters and you know it's 25:31 25 minutes, 31 seconds under 10 basis points they pass 15 plus but still they have given like three to four percentage kind of a guidance and credit cost. So like are we on the 25:40 25 minutes, 40 seconds conservative side here just to be under like you know even uh with the energy vertical prices you know the credit cost could be uh you know under 3%. 25:52 25 minutes, 52 seconds Right. So, so for your first question, I the model itself takes care of any changes in pricing if that's what you're talking about. Cost of boring is what he's talking about. 26:01 26 minutes, 1 second Yeah. Yeah. 26:04 26 minutes, 4 seconds Uh uh cost of boring. Yeah. Yeah. So, the model takes care of it predominantly. But what we see is that 26:11 26 minutes, 11 seconds so far we've had a very strong uh cost of boring reduction and I think now we've reached kind of the bottom. We 26:18 26 minutes, 18 seconds don't see ample opportunity reduce any further. It could probably remain raintorm or slightly move up and any 26:26 26 minutes, 26 seconds moment it will get automatically uh you know price into our pricing model. 26:33 26 minutes, 33 seconds And the second question on par accretion rate yes we have kept a wider range. We also have to uh keep in mind that we 26:41 26 minutes, 41 seconds went through an elevated uh credit cost period and then we corrected very sharply in in the last quarter. Normally 26:49 26 minutes, 49 seconds your last quarter would be much lower than any other quarter. Now we will start moving towards the normative range. Right? So, so that also need to 26:57 26 minutes, 57 seconds be kept in mind and hence uh what we've given also takes care of what is the normative range of thermal secretion 27:04 27 minutes, 4 seconds that we uh anticipate as well as probable external events including uh you know the global crisis probably some 27:12 27 minutes, 12 seconds amount of heat waves are going to build in uh and any effects due to that etc. 27:19 27 minutes, 19 seconds Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. 27:26 27 minutes, 26 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. 27:35 27 minutes, 35 seconds Our next question come from the line of Shipal Dushi from Equirus. Please go ahead. 27:40 27 minutes, 40 seconds Hi sir uh congrats on a good quarter and thank you for giving me the opportunity. 27:46 27 minutes, 46 seconds My first question. Thank you sir. My first question sir was on the microphone and side. So have we taken any rate hike 27:53 27 minutes, 53 seconds during the quarter or in the last 3 4 months time period? 27:58 27 minutes, 58 seconds No, we've not taken any rate hike in the last quarter. 28:02 28 minutes, 2 seconds Okay. And do we like do we any charge or do we plan to take uh any rate increase in that segment? 28:08 28 minutes, 8 seconds At this point of time no unless we see significant movement in cost of borrowing that also counted in two quarter. 28:17 28 minutes, 17 seconds That's how it Okay. Okay. Got it. So thank you. So my second question was on the retail side. 28:25 28 minutes, 25 seconds So within the IBL portfolio, I see that the ticket size has uh you know changed materially. So from uh 142K to down to almost 93K uh in in the last one year. 28:37 28 minutes, 37 seconds So have we changed any strategy for that particular product? It's gone. Gone down. It's gone down. 28:46 28 minutes, 46 seconds Yeah, it's gone down because uh individual loans are practiced in two models. One is called unati, the other 28:53 28 minutes, 53 seconds called uni live. So the first model is where we actually have a larger ticket size. Average ticket size is around 1.7 29:02 29 minutes, 2 seconds lakhs where we look at visible uh uh when you say 29:10 29 minutes, 10 seconds 30 points that are required for underwriting a customer, right? 29:14 29 minutes, 14 seconds Customers who exhibit better credit profile, better cash flow demonstration, we give them a slightly larger ticket 29:21 29 minutes, 21 seconds signal. However, customers who have moved after income cycle but they are not able to or we are not able to 29:30 29 minutes, 30 seconds reasonably validate while we move them to individual notes. We maintain a lower ticket size and probably in the next cycle we will look at graduating them to 29:37 29 minutes, 37 seconds the normal individual books. So that is why you're seeing that since both these books are growing you're seeing a taper down of uh the unsecured ticket size. 29:48 29 minutes, 48 seconds Okay. Okay. So in the unati product you said the average ticket size was about maybe 1.7 and the unati life wherein we 29:57 29 minutes, 57 seconds are not having complete grip of the cash flows of the customer or his or her growth. So there the ticket size would be what can be range 75 to one lakh. 30:08 30 minutes, 8 seconds Okay. 30:10 30 minutes, 10 seconds Okay. So there we are broadly trying to match with the group loan ticket size thought process 30:18 30 minutes, 18 seconds one lakh but then if you have other borrow they get minimized but then they come for next cycle it will go up. 30:24 30 minutes, 24 seconds Okay. Okay. Got it sir. Thank you for answering that question sir. The last question was pertinent to the retail portfolio growth strategy. So in terms 30:34 30 minutes, 34 seconds of uh launching this product or let's say you know having it implemented uh so so how are we doing it? We are doing it 30:41 30 minutes, 41 seconds in some specific states in uh initially and then or let's say specific districts in initially and then expanding it 30:48 30 minutes, 48 seconds because uh I know that this is done separate through separate branch network. So in terms of selection of those uh let's say geographies how are 30:56 30 minutes, 56 seconds we sort of planning that out? I just wanted to understand that because your group has been pretty healthy. 31:01 31 minutes, 1 second Sure. So, so uh you know that this is not new at this point of time, right? 31:06 31 minutes, 6 seconds So, so our retail products are today at least three years vintage except for two wheels and when we launched the products 31:15 31 minutes, 15 seconds we didn't go to our core markets specific districts we got them piloted and once uh the assumptions were proven 31:22 31 minutes, 22 seconds we scaled up. So today our individual products are predominantly offered across all our core markets and a significant portion of uh branches are 31:31 31 minutes, 31 seconds already covered. So we have specific branches for mortgage loan. We know that roughly around 120 branches and uh the rest of the group loan branches manage 31:40 31 minutes, 40 seconds this portion of the individual business loan which has also scaled up significantly over the last three years. So today is widespread. 31:48 31 minutes, 48 seconds Got it. So core markets when we say it will be broadly be Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and uh the southern belt. Uh right sir 31:57 31 minutes, 57 seconds Karnataka, Tamil, Maharashtra and uh so that would be the broader belt where we are sort of launching this uh retail product so far. 32:05 32 minutes, 5 seconds Got it sir. Got it. So incrementally FI27 and or by F27 and where do we see the share of retail products let's say reaching? 32:17 32 minutes, 17 seconds We should hit somewhere around 24 25%. 32:22 32 minutes, 22 seconds Got it. Got it sir. Thank you sir. Thank you so much for answering my question. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 32:30 32 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Anyone who wishes to ask a question press star and one. 32:39 32 minutes, 39 seconds Our next question comes from the line of Rajiv Ma from Yes Security Securities. Please go ahead. 32:44 32 minutes, 44 seconds Yeah. Hi good evening. uh congratulations on good numbers. One clarification was this 38 crore of additional provision taken for the West 32:53 32 minutes, 53 seconds Asia crisis. Uh this is the sitting in stage one, right? So 1.63 percentage will have some element of this. But 33:00 33 minutes would this become a us would this become a usual provision rate or then this coverage will actually come down next quarter because you may not take this 33:08 33 minutes, 8 seconds additional provision uh if it is not required. 33:11 33 minutes, 11 seconds Right? So, so what we've done is bases the guidance of the board we formed an EAL committee with board members as a 33:18 33 minutes, 18 seconds part of it along with management team and this committee reviews various variables that needs to be considered what weightage is actually given bases 33:27 33 minutes, 27 seconds the development. So every quarter this committee will convene and whatever has happened in the previous quarter what they supposedly for the next quarter will be taken into account before making any decision. 33:40 33 minutes, 40 seconds So in your guidance of 3 to 4% credit cost uh have you kind of your base assumption is that you will continue with this 1.63% 63% 33:49 33 minutes, 49 seconds uh you know broadbased uh ETL position rate broadly you should expect that it will be raised broad it will remain there 33:57 33 minutes, 57 seconds yeah yeah got it and just coming back unless there is significant data points to look at a reduction but that takes a longer period to move back 34:06 34 minutes, 6 seconds okay understood and just coming back to growth because we are seeing exponential growth in retail and as you were discussing that there's a lot of penetration to happen of individual 34:14 34 minutes, 14 seconds loans in the group loan customer base so this may continue and uh but the implied then the residual growth has to come 34:21 34 minutes, 21 seconds from you know uh your core uh group loan IGN yes then that will be what 12 to 15% in the current year that's what the expectation 34:29 34 minutes, 29 seconds is yeah so our assumption is around 10 to 12%. 34:34 34 minutes, 34 seconds Okay at the port level yeah yes and on li when I look at your guided name the midpoint is 13% you exiting at 34:43 34 minutes, 43 seconds 14.2 two I know there will be a leverage effect uh because of growth but still I mean the kind of mean decline that we're 34:50 34 minutes, 50 seconds trying to indicate in the guidance is it uh because of the change in mix which I don't believe it's so dilutive but is it 34:58 34 minutes, 58 seconds because of cost of fund changes that you are in this or are you planning to pass on uh incremental spread and efficiencies by reducing pricing 35:07 35 minutes, 7 seconds okay I'll ask you so uh uh Rajiv here the name range what we have given So yeah it is compared to the fourth 35:16 35 minutes, 16 seconds spot names it is net there are couple of things here the names what we uh generate they are they are always a 35:24 35 minutes, 24 seconds factor of our uh pricing what we charge to the customer and uh the pricing it is aligned with our borrowing cost 35:32 35 minutes, 32 seconds operating cost and credit cost. So obviously on a year-on-year basis we do see the credit cost will be trending downwards and to that extent there will 35:41 35 minutes, 41 seconds be certain uh pricing which needs to be passed on to the customer on a YI basis. 35:47 35 minutes, 47 seconds So from that perspective if we are able to do a better credit card this year compared to FY26 obviously some of it will flow as a benefit to the customer. 35:57 35 minutes, 57 seconds So that is where slightly we are budgeting lower MIS because at the same time the credit cost will also be lower 36:04 36 minutes, 4 seconds and we'll be still doing uh uh ROA in our uh guided range and uh on the borrowing as we said earlier we believe 36:14 36 minutes, 14 seconds that the borrowing cost seems to have stabilized now we don't see it further dropping so and depending upon the rate 36:22 36 minutes, 22 seconds environment we are keeping certain buffer on the borrowing cost as because even I mean the domestic uh uh rate 36:31 36 minutes, 31 seconds environment seems to have uh been reversing now uh in the coming three to four quarters and even internationally 36:38 36 minutes, 38 seconds given the way uh global uh situation is panning out the hijing rates have also gone up. So factoring all these uh uh 36:47 36 minutes, 47 seconds aspects we are uh keeping this uh nim range and largely at any point in time you will see that the nims will have to 36:56 36 minutes, 56 seconds be common similar to absorb our opex and credit cost and give a guided ro so that will be the corridor within which we 37:04 37 minutes, 4 seconds will always maintain our names to achieve our intended ros n here's a similar question for cost 37:12 37 minutes, 12 seconds income ratio bands as well I mean The midpoint is 34. I mean I not take the exact number of 30 but even the whole 37:19 37 minutes, 19 seconds year number is about 33. Uh while we grow income uh in this this year very nicely. So would the opex grow uh more 37:28 37 minutes, 28 seconds than commensurately and that is what the guidance seems to be factoring and we were thinking that when the growth will come back you will also have some operating efficiencies which which 37:36 37 minutes, 36 seconds you're trying to pass so pricing but when I look at cost to income guidance uh it seems to suggest that your cost will grow higher than income 37:45 37 minutes, 45 seconds uh we need to see currently things are little volatile so we have built certain inflationary elements because of the uh 37:53 37 minutes, 53 seconds global issues so If the global issues do not prolong long do not prolong and if 38:00 38 minutes there are no cascading effects on the in input factors then we we may not see cost to income rise but as of now we 38:08 38 minutes, 8 seconds have built certain increase considering the anticipated inflationary elements. 38:16 38 minutes, 16 seconds Okay. Thank you Bess. Thank you. 38:22 38 minutes, 22 seconds Thank you. Our next question come from the line of Shri Shivani from Namura. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, thank you for the opportunity. 38:30 38 minutes, 30 seconds Uh I have a question. I have a I have a question on your long-term guidance that you have shared which is product uh 38:37 38 minutes, 37 seconds project Shaki. Uh so the slide number 21 I think fair to say that you're targeting for 20 to 25% Kagar over next 38:47 38 minutes, 47 seconds 10 years. Is that is that understanding correct? Interpretation correct? 38:52 38 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah. Right now we've assumed a growth rate of at least 20% plus. Sure. On a basis. Yes. 38:59 38 minutes, 59 seconds Right. So now that makes me question that see you've always said in that in the near term your MSI will grow grow slower and your retail finance will grow 39:08 39 minutes, 8 seconds faster and that's how you will achieve the FI27 guidance. 39:12 39 minutes, 12 seconds But if over over 10 years if you're going to target this then your MFI also has to grow at the same pace. uh because 39:19 39 minutes, 19 seconds you cannot breach the 6040 mix. uh so what is our thought process around it and and when our entire presentation 39:28 39 minutes, 28 seconds today has been about you know moving beyond MFI then doesn't the NBFC MFI format somewhere restrict us on the 39:36 39 minutes, 36 seconds longerterm period I'm not talking about immediate one year the question so so broadly we've picked 39:44 39 minutes, 44 seconds up certain business lines and we are anticipating certain growth rate in each of these lines right and and you also have to remember the regulatory was 15 39:53 39 minutes, 53 seconds till not so long ago then it became 25 now it's 40 our assumption probably if there is enough room and potential that 40:02 40 minutes, 2 seconds also could move up or in the worst case we can look at managing the 6040 in various methods uh including 40:10 40 minutes, 10 seconds stabilization failing portfolio whatever you deem it we can also pick up lending as we always maintain for us growing 40:18 40 minutes, 18 seconds these independent business lines uh will be top prior how we grow it and how we manage uh uh 40:26 40 minutes, 26 seconds you know the various uh uh regulatory aspects is something that we can always work on right and we also indicated that we probably look at some kind of uh 40:35 40 minutes, 35 seconds diversification over a period of time including inorganic we can figure out how to kind of do it but for us that is not a limiting factor in what we see so 40:43 40 minutes, 43 seconds these lines will continue this is a certain mass where we need to work on that we start working will be 40:51 40 minutes, 51 seconds already working on some of these aspects. We will build on it and we should be able to maintain it. Right. Right. No, that makes sense. 41:00 41 minutes Also, uh there's a very detailed slide on 32 where you've talked about the internal control structure etc. So, this 41:08 41 minutes, 8 seconds is partic this is pertaining to your retail finance right because this is completely a branched model that we are 41:14 41 minutes, 14 seconds talking about, right? Uh the three lines of defense there's a big slide on it. 41:19 41 minutes, 19 seconds No, no, no, no. that is that is applicable to all our business. So both in DL and retail we have the same concept uh including our internal audit 41:27 41 minutes, 27 seconds including our risk including our quality assurance all of them are common across the business. Right. But but you will have to scale it up in the retail 41:35 41 minutes, 35 seconds finance. Uh or or is it that gold finance you already have this structure and parallelly you'll develop this structure in retail finance or for 41:44 41 minutes, 44 seconds retail finance you have to start some no it is already in place whatever size and format we have already in place. So 41:52 41 minutes, 52 seconds any expansion that happens even the control teams will naturally move towards that and we have to add in the 42:00 42 minutes same slide we are on the right side if you see finance we have the vertical which are 42:07 42 minutes, 7 seconds supporting so which is already in place so this will be scaled up as the business case so all this infrastructure is already built and uh controls are in 42:16 42 minutes, 16 seconds place got it so it's not exactly I'm really sorry but your voice is breaking. 42:26 42 minutes, 26 seconds Okay. Uh I think that answers my questions. This was uh useful. All the best. Thank you sir. Thank you. 42:33 42 minutes, 33 seconds Thank you ma'am. 42:35 42 minutes, 35 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, anyone who wishes to ask a question we press star and one. Thank you. 42:43 42 minutes, 43 seconds The next question comes from the line of Bun Gajara from Omara Capital please go ahead. 42:50 42 minutes, 50 seconds sir and congratulations on a good set. 42:52 42 minutes, 52 seconds Uh so so now that we now that we start our individual loan business and and Tamil Nadu being being one of the one of 43:01 43 minutes, 1 second the prime blocks that we've been targeting what is the competition landscape like especially in Tamilad one of your peers also has announced 43:08 43 minutes, 8 seconds something similar. Uh so just would like to understand how the competition get there. 43:15 43 minutes, 15 seconds I I think it is natural for most institutions to take this path right with the both with respect to regulatory group as well as a large customer base. 43:27 43 minutes, 27 seconds Now I think the biggest strength that we would probably have in is in how we execute and how we strategize more right 43:34 43 minutes, 34 seconds so from a potential perspective I don't see that uh competition is something that's going to limit us or 43:42 43 minutes, 42 seconds you know we have to uh look at it differently but I think our biggest strength is our already made investments 43:49 43 minutes, 49 seconds on technology uh our existing customer base how we train our employees how we figure out distribution across all these 43:56 43 minutes, 56 seconds products and try and retain as many customers who are graduating from us uh uh not going out of this right so so for 44:04 44 minutes, 4 seconds just for uh a broad data point within our existing customers what we have built as a portfolio is roughly 44:12 44 minutes, 12 seconds around 30,000 and what they have already with outside is roughly around 40,000 right so so we just have to be sharper 44:20 44 minutes, 20 seconds in ensuring we understand our customer recommend products accordingly and reach them on time for service varies, 44:29 44 minutes, 29 seconds right? and and uh in on the back of the recent uh I mean the two years the tough two years that we've had in the industry 44:38 44 minutes, 38 seconds uh they they believe that uh they believe that a host of there are host of the customers that we will be uh the 44:46 44 minutes, 46 seconds host of the clients that we'll be now targeting uh the pool must have gotten smaller over time because a lot of 44:53 44 minutes, 53 seconds people must have gone out of system due to defaults right what do you what do you mean with something like this what our approach 45:02 45 minutes, 2 seconds lot of customers would have gone because of default. Yeah. But what is your question? 45:06 45 minutes, 6 seconds Yeah. So uh how I want to understand is how do we how do we deal with a pool like this especially when especially when we are trying to you know ramp up 45:14 45 minutes, 14 seconds an import right how do you deal with the code which has been written out is what you're asking. 45:20 45 minutes, 20 seconds Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like which has which has gone out of system or you know probably probably is in the default zone. 45:28 45 minutes, 28 seconds Okay. So see typically once we write off a customer we don't do much with them except for helping them come back 45:37 45 minutes, 37 seconds through a uh OTS as well as a restructuring product that we have right so that is the only way to approach but 45:45 45 minutes, 45 seconds they will continue to serve new customers and that is a very strong possibility because we only have around 7% market share when it comes to the 45:52 45 minutes, 52 seconds number of customers they're catering uh in the micro finance space and most of our new geographies are very new. We 46:00 46 minutes don't have sufficient uh depth there. So we continue to grow both and non-posts 46:07 46 minutes, 7 seconds but at different uh percentages probably because of penetration but there'll be strong acquisition of customers through 46:14 46 minutes, 14 seconds microfarads and we will kind of uh bring them up the curve for a few years and then proactively pick us up to move forward. That is the broad side. 46:26 46 minutes, 26 seconds uh Orurum just to add if you refer to slide number 11 so even in the challenging year of this financial year we added 900 uh 9 lakh 76,000 customers 46:35 46 minutes, 35 seconds and our write of customers were 4 lakh 91,000 so there is a net addition of four lakh plus customers so this write 46:42 46 minutes, 42 seconds off is going to come down this year whereas the customer addition rate will increase this is going to be the growth 46:49 46 minutes, 49 seconds engine where customers will come through and uh we will keep graduating Okay. Okay. Thank you sir. And all the rest on future content. Thank you. 46:59 46 minutes, 59 seconds Yeah. And I I I think I also want to add one point what we are seeing because of very strict guard rail implementation. 47:06 47 minutes, 6 seconds We have even very old customers coming back for settlement. 47:10 47 minutes, 10 seconds Even the co period customers we are now getting requests for uh either restructuring or settlement or some form of help to make them come back. So 47:18 47 minutes, 18 seconds that's also playing out quite well. I'm seeing. Okay. 47:25 47 minutes, 25 seconds Thank you. 47:27 47 minutes, 27 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ask a question, you may press star and one. 47:39 47 minutes, 39 seconds Gender reminder to all the participant. 47:41 47 minutes, 41 seconds If you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one. 47:45 47 minutes, 45 seconds Our next question come from the line of Chintan Sha from IC securities. Please go ahead. 47:55 47 minutes, 55 seconds Uh yeah. Uh so sir uh again uh hopping on this uh guidance part uh particularly 48:02 48 minutes, 2 seconds on the AUM growth. Uh so what kind [clears throat] of so 20 to 25% is the AUM growth guidance office. Um what kind 48:10 48 minutes, 10 seconds of growth are we building from the MFI and non MFI portfolio? if you could just help on that and what would be the E differential between MFI and the non MFI 48:19 48 minutes, 19 seconds which is the retail or other part of the portfolio what would be the E differential there right so and uh since as we said earlier 48:27 48 minutes, 27 seconds the micro finance growth being in the range of 10 to 12% and the rest of the growth will come from the nonf 48:35 48 minutes, 35 seconds from a e perspective today I think micro and non-microd are very close to each other not very different indeed except 48:43 48 minutes, 43 seconds for home loans which is a small group and like we said earlier home loan is something we'll actually try and do in partnership uh with probably a larger 48:52 48 minutes, 52 seconds bank or figure out some other strategy for that as we scale up. See I'll add one more point here. So when we are saying that micro finance will grow at 49:00 49 minutes 10 to 12%. That doesn't mean that micro finance is growing at a slower pace. 49:06 49 minutes, 6 seconds What we need to understand is that we continue to see a strong customer acquisition. So like last year we acquired close to 10 lakh customers. So 49:13 49 minutes, 13 seconds this year we we should be doing much much uh better than uh what we did last year. So the new customer acquisition 49:20 49 minutes, 20 seconds will continue to happen in MFI but at the same time what we'll also see is that 6 to 8% of MFI customers they will 49:28 49 minutes, 28 seconds get graduated into retail. So that is why the net growth in MFI will be 12%. 49:32 49 minutes, 32 seconds It's not that the NFI as a segment will be growing at a slower pace. So overall uh we will see that despite 6 to 8% 49:41 49 minutes, 41 seconds customers moving out of MFI into retail still MFI MFI will grow at 10 to 12 and those 6 to 8% customers who move into 49:49 49 minutes, 49 seconds retail we take at least 2 to 3x exposure on then compared to that gives the balance 10 to 12% growth and that's 49:58 49 minutes, 58 seconds where the overall we fitted to 20 25% range. Understood. Understood. Uh fair enough. 50:05 50 minutes, 5 seconds And uh one so uh this question again MFI growth would be around probably other growth are expand other sectors 50:13 50 minutes, 13 seconds expanding but uh so for MFI what incremental disbursement for FI27 or for FI26 how much of the incremental disment 50:22 50 minutes, 22 seconds was towards the new customer and towards the existing customer what would be that share yeah 50:30 50 minutes, 30 seconds it may be around uh this year last year also the the disbustments were more skewed towards the existing customers 50:38 50 minutes, 38 seconds because the new customer addition was relatively uh lesser than what would have added in a normal year. You may take maybe 20% coming from new 50:47 50 minutes, 47 seconds customers, 80% coming from existing. So in a steady state basis this should be around maybe 30 to 40 coming from new customers and balance coming from 50:54 50 minutes, 54 seconds existing right. So probably steady state means fi 27 we should see that inching up to 30 40 26 51:02 51 minutes, 2 seconds at least 30 40 time 30 okay but going ahead also then even in 51:08 51 minutes, 8 seconds fi 28 29 and probably given the 30% is from new so that around 10 10 15% 51:17 51 minutes, 17 seconds ballpark so that could also in further grow 51:24 51 minutes, 24 seconds yeah It will be a rainb like we guided but it should not change much the near 51:33 51 minutes, 33 seconds and this is very helpful. Yeah. Thank you uh and all the very best for the future. 51:40 51 minutes, 40 seconds Thank you Chan. Our next question comes from the line of Shipal Doohi from EQS. Please go ahead. 51:46 51 minutes, 46 seconds Hi sir thank you for giving me the opportunity once again. Just had one question which is on the product wise profitability. So as we've lo so we've 51:55 51 minutes, 55 seconds been scaling up these newer products under the retail head. Uh by when do you see these products like all of them or 52:02 52 minutes, 2 seconds rather if you could give product wise uh uh let's say some clarity becoming profitable uh uh at a standalone level. 52:13 52 minutes, 13 seconds Oh uh Shal today uh except for the mortgage book all the all other products are profitable at the product level 52:22 52 minutes, 22 seconds because if you see uh for all retail finance products we are leveraging our uh group uh group loans ecosystem. So 52:32 52 minutes, 32 seconds mortgage loans we have been uh for the last three years we have been doing mortgage loans through the standalone retail finance branches and the 52:39 52 minutes, 39 seconds individual business loans we have been doing through the group lending branches. So there we get the economics of scale and we we have been able to 52:47 52 minutes, 47 seconds achieve the faster break even in the individual business loan products. for mortgage loan products uh for standalone 52:54 52 minutes, 54 seconds retail finance branches should keep them actually break even as we near maybe 800 to,000 crores of mortgage book from the 53:03 53 minutes, 3 seconds retail finance branches but at the same time we will we have now also started uh expanding the mortgage loans through 53:12 53 minutes, 12 seconds select uh group lending branches uh adopting a similar approach of individual business loans. So overall as 53:19 53 minutes, 19 seconds these products scale up we believe that we'll be able to see uh benefits of operating usage because we we'll be 53:27 53 minutes, 27 seconds leveraging the GL ecosystem uh across various states. Obviously first we start with the high wind states and gradually 53:35 53 minutes, 35 seconds we percolate into the newer states over a period of time. 53:42 53 minutes, 42 seconds Go on it sir. Got it. This is very helpful. Uh thank you. Thank you sir. 53:49 53 minutes, 49 seconds Thank you ladies and gentlemen. As there's no question from the participant, I would like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks. 53:58 53 minutes, 58 seconds Thank you and over to you Tim. 54:02 54 minutes, 2 seconds Thank you. Thank you everybody. Uh wishing you all the best and we hope this year will be a very normal year and 54:09 54 minutes, 9 seconds we will uh meet our guidances uh quite confidently. Thank you so much. 54:14 54 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of IC Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. 54:26 54 minutes, 26 seconds Thank you.