Canara HSBC Life Insurance Company Ltd — Q4 FY26

Canara HSBC Life Insurance Company Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5WRKLGe_3Q Published: 2 weeks ago

0:01 1 second Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the CANRA HSBC life insurance Q4 FY26 earnings conference call hosted 0:10 10 seconds by Motila Noswag. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenonly mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions 0:18 18 seconds after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero 0:26 26 seconds on your Touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. 0:34 34 seconds Pesh Jane from Modila Los. Thank you and over to you sir. 0:40 40 seconds Uh thank you Sagar. Good evening everyone. Uh it is a privilege to host the senior management of Canada HSBC life insurance limited uh for the for their Q4 FI26 earnings conference call. 0:52 52 seconds Uh from the management we have Mr. Anj Mur MD and CEO, Mr. Mr. Tarun Vasagi the CFO, Mr. Anin Agraal the appointed 1:00 1 minute actuary, Mr. Shad, chief strategy and data office and Mr. Amit Jane the head. 1:07 1 minute, 7 seconds I now hand over the call to Mr. Anj Matur MD and CEO. Over to you sir. 1:12 1 minute, 12 seconds Yes, thanks Farish. Uh and good evening to everyone and a very warm welcome into our earnings call. Uh in fact this is 1:20 1 minute, 20 seconds the first time after our listing that we are kind of announcing our full year performance. So, so a very warm welcome to all of you. Um, in fact, we sincerely 1:29 1 minute, 29 seconds appreciate your time and thank you for joining us today. Your continued engagement and insights are deeply valued. Uh, the financial results along 1:38 1 minute, 38 seconds with the investor presentation is available on our website as well as on the websites of both the exchanges. So friends, I'll start my discussion with 1:45 1 minute, 45 seconds some key macro developments which impacted the quarter. uh the global operating environment continues to remain uncertain with ongoing 1:53 1 minute, 53 seconds geopolitical developments leading to supply side disruptions across multiple sectors. However, despite these headwinds, the Indian economy has 2:01 2 minutes, 1 second demonstrated resilience and we believe its long-term growth fundamentals remain firmly intact. The insurance sector has 2:08 2 minutes, 8 seconds seen some temporary moderation, though our long-term outlook remains unchanged, supported by structural drivers such as increasing protection, under 2:16 2 minutes, 16 seconds penetration, and steady growth in household savings. From a regulatory perspective, we welcome the transition 2:23 2 minutes, 23 seconds to indas, which will align our financial reporting with global best practices and over time bring increased consistency 2:30 2 minutes, 30 seconds and transparency to business performance metrics. However, given that it is too short a time period, we have taken a 2:37 2 minutes, 37 seconds prudent approach and obtained board approval to take free forbearance for a period of one year uh which is in line with the IIA guidelines. So, we'll be uh 2:46 2 minutes, 46 seconds writing to regulator for that forbearance uh shortly. 2:50 2 minutes, 50 seconds Uh friends, now let me discuss the highlights of the business performance for FY26. 2:55 2 minutes, 55 seconds uh financial year 2526 witnessed significant milestones in terms of our listing our IPO launch of agency business and superior business 3:03 3 minutes, 3 seconds performance which I'm going to touch upon now. So on growth parameters uh we delivered healthy individual WPI growth 3:10 3 minutes, 10 seconds of 19% yearonear uh 20% in AP terms in FI26 which is in line with the guidance that we provided last year. We continue 3:20 3 minutes, 20 seconds to outperform both the industry and p private players by a big margin. In fact, our growth rate was highest amongst the top 10 players in WPI terms 3:28 3 minutes, 28 seconds in the industry, which demonstrates the strength of our business. In Q4 FI26, we 3:34 3 minutes, 34 seconds grew at 15% year-on-year and we saw very decent shift in our product mix towards traditional and protection business. I'm 3:42 3 minutes, 42 seconds also going to touch upon our value of new business VNB and VNB margin. uh when I come to financial metrics uh key highlights during the quarter was shift 3:50 3 minutes, 50 seconds in product mix towards traditional segment which led to the share of traditional mix rising to 81% in Q4 FI26 3:59 3 minutes, 59 seconds compared to 39% which was till December 25. Consequently for FI26, the overall 4:06 4 minutes, 6 seconds mix between linked and non-lin stood at 51%. U and that is with the guidance which we gave last time that we we would 4:15 4 minutes, 15 seconds like our product mix to be more balanced and this is what uh is there in the actual numbers. Uh this reflects our strategy to pivot towards a balanced 4:23 4 minutes, 23 seconds product mix and demonstrates our ability to proactively recalibrate our product portfolio to optimize value. 4:30 4 minutes, 30 seconds Given the healthy growth that we have witnessed, our rank amongst the private players has improved to ninth in FI26 4:36 4 minutes, 36 seconds compared to 10th in FI25. This is on WPI basis. Within traditional growth was broad-based and led by new product 4:44 4 minutes, 44 seconds launches in both PAR and non-par segments which grew at a steady pace of 15% year-on-year for FI26 with a share 4:52 4 minutes, 52 seconds in total AP at 28%. I will now like to talk about the protection business. So our protection business saw significant growth with credit life growing at 40% 5:02 5 minutes, 2 seconds year-on-year for the quarter while individual protection continued to grow from a low base. Share of total protection grows to 7% in FI26 from 4% 5:12 5 minutes, 12 seconds in the prior year FI25 and we'll continue to focus on this to increase uh protection mix further. 5:19 5 minutes, 19 seconds Coming to annuality in AP terms uh we saw healthy growth of 24% yearon-year for FI26 with share largely steady at 5:28 5 minutes, 28 seconds around 14%. We continue to focus on deferred annoty which provides long-term customer value and earnings visibility. 5:36 5 minutes, 36 seconds I will now talk about our persistency. 5:39 5 minutes, 39 seconds So friends, our 13-month persistency also saw significant traction and I'm happy to share that renewable premiums maintained very steady momentum 5:47 5 minutes, 47 seconds recording a 25% year-on-year growth for FI26. 5:52 5 minutes, 52 seconds We continue to see improvements in persistency across cohorts. Our 13-month persistency has risen to 86.3% 6:00 6 minutes from 84.4% in FI25. So it's a 1.9% jump in 13-month persistency. Our 61st month persistency 6:09 6 minutes, 9 seconds has also shown steady improvement and currently stands at around 55.5%. 6:14 6 minutes, 14 seconds Uh these consistent improvements underscore the strength of our customer attention. The quality of sales practice 6:21 6 minutes, 21 seconds and the long-term sustainability of our growth trajectory. 6:26 6 minutes, 26 seconds Along with the premium growth, our number of policies also grew at 7% yearon year which shows gradual movement towards increase in penetration. 6:35 6 minutes, 35 seconds Uh friends while early days I'm happy to share that our recently launched agency channel is performing in line with the company's plan. We have onboarded about 6:43 6 minutes, 43 seconds 500 distributors and we collected a premium of 14 crores in AP terms in this channel in less than 6 months of our launch. We we will continue to scale up 6:53 6 minutes, 53 seconds this [clears throat] channel in a phase manner and remain confident of further growth by 27. Our alternate channels have also grown by 29% over previous 7:01 7 minutes, 1 second year and currently it contributes to roughly 9% of our WPI. 7:06 7 minutes, 6 seconds We are on this journey to increase share of alternate business to 15% over next three years. 7:12 7 minutes, 12 seconds Now let me take you through some of the key financial metrics. So our value of new business for FY26 stood at rupees 7:21 7 minutes, 21 seconds 627 crores registering a growth of 41% yearonear. 7:26 7 minutes, 26 seconds Despite GST headwind, we reported a healthy VNB margin of 22.4% for FY26 up from 19.1% FI25. 7:37 7 minutes, 37 seconds Uh the margin improvement was led by a favorable product mix shift towards protection and improvement in product level margins. Without GST impact, our margins would have been around 24.6%. 7:49 7 minutes, 49 seconds Which is closer to the market consistent margins. 7:53 7 minutes, 53 seconds Coming to profit after tax for FY26 uh stood at 127 crores, an increase of 8% yearonear. 8:01 8 minutes, 1 second On the expenses side, we continue to work on optimizing our expenses on the back of increase in volumes and continuous technology initiatives, 8:09 8 minutes, 9 seconds various AI initiatives. Consequently, our total expense ratio was stable at 18.7% in FI26 excluding GST and labor code impact it is at 17.5%. 8:22 8 minutes, 22 seconds Our embedded value grew at 18% yearonear uh reaching 7,233 crores with an operating roe of 20.7%. 8:32 8 minutes, 32 seconds Our solveny ratio remains uh comfortable at 190%. 8:37 8 minutes, 37 seconds Uh coming to customer sens centricity uh that's a focus area for the company. We continue to see improvement across key 8:44 8 minutes, 44 seconds metrics uh which measure customer centricity. I earlier touched upon improvement in our persistency across cohorts. I'm happy to share that we 8:53 8 minutes, 53 seconds continue to excel on customer services front and have witnessed a significant improvement in our NPS score uh net promoter score which is a testimony of 9:02 9 minutes, 2 seconds the customer experience. Our net promoter score NPS has improved from 76 in FI25 to 80 in FI26. 9:12 9 minutes, 12 seconds Our claim settlement ratio has also improved from 99.4% in FY25 to 99.6% in FY26. 9:22 9 minutes, 22 seconds Another important achievement for us uh which is on the people front uh we participated in the great places to work survey. We have been doing that for last 9:30 9 minutes, 30 seconds five years and our ranking has improved there also. So we were we used to be in top 50 in BFSI space. I'm happy to share 9:37 9 minutes, 37 seconds that our company now features in top 25 companies uh in the BFI space uh as per this uh latest GPTW survey. 9:47 9 minutes, 47 seconds Just to close now uh to conclude we would like to re-emphasize our strategy of maintaining above industry profitable growth, balanced product mix, consistent 9:56 9 minutes, 56 seconds growth in VNP and a phase growth of our agency channel. So thank you everyone and with this we are now happy to take 10:04 10 minutes, 4 seconds any questions that you guys may have. So over to you. 10:09 10 minutes, 9 seconds Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. 10:14 10 minutes, 14 seconds Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then one on their touchstone phone. 10:20 10 minutes, 20 seconds If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. 10:26 10 minutes, 26 seconds Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. 10:31 10 minutes, 31 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question Q assembles. 10:35 10 minutes, 35 seconds Again, to register for a question, please press star and then one. 10:51 10 minutes, 51 seconds Our first question comes from the line of Mohit Mangal from Sentrum. Please go ahead. 10:58 10 minutes, 58 seconds Yeah. Uh good evening and thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the economic variance in the uh EV work. So it's about 820 million negative. Uh so 11:06 11 minutes, 6 seconds could you just spell out the reasons for the same? 11:09 11 minutes, 9 seconds Yeah. Uh good evening Moit and I'll ask my appointed actually Nathan Agaral to answer this. 11:15 11 minutes, 15 seconds Hi. So the main reason for this is actually the equity uh reduction. So the 11:22 11 minutes, 22 seconds fall in equity markets. So that has uh resulted in the UL because you know the good proportion of UL is invested in 11:29 11 minutes, 29 seconds equity. So the future uh the future for charges particularly the fund management charges the impact of that on BIF is the 11:36 11 minutes, 36 seconds main reason uh for the economic variance being negative for this particular year. 11:42 11 minutes, 42 seconds Okay. And if you can just split between equity and debt that would be very helpful. 11:47 11 minutes, 47 seconds So the main the difference is coming actually the reduction is mostly coming from the equity side. On the debt side uh generally what's happened is on the 11:55 11 minutes, 55 seconds whiff and net worth side they mostly cancel out you know there's an offsetting impact on the net worth of the whiff whereas because on the equity 12:04 12 minutes, 4 seconds on the unit link side mostly it's the whiff that comes through so the bigger impact is coming from equity the debt side is very marginal. 12:12 12 minutes, 12 seconds Understood that's helpful but second question is on the on the GFC. So I think you know last time you said that about 185 basis point impact and I think 12:20 12 minutes, 20 seconds we are in line with what you said uh the impact on the VNB margin. Uh now going forward how do you see uh you know this 12:27 12 minutes, 27 seconds kind of panning out say in financial year 2728 uh do you see uh the VNB margin increasing and the impact of GST 12:35 12 minutes, 35 seconds decreasing or or how should we look into that? 12:38 12 minutes, 38 seconds Uh so hi uh thanks for the question. Um so GST so we have rebased the margin now uh where we have already taken impact of 12:48 12 minutes, 48 seconds uh 6 month of the GST impact uh plus uh like we mentioned that uh on the renewal commission we have already uh taken 12:56 12 minutes, 56 seconds calls which is actually helping us to reduce the GST impact in future also. So keeping that in mind we don't see that 13:04 13 minutes, 4 seconds uh it is going to further impact obviously there will be some annualized impact next year but at the same time as our business is growing the product miss 13:12 13 minutes, 12 seconds is shifting uh and also the protection mix is increasing we expect that the margin is uh expected to grow from the 13:19 13 minutes, 19 seconds current level what we have reported uh so this is what we are uh targeting understood but but you're not giving any 13:26 13 minutes, 26 seconds numerical guidance uh so in terms of the VNB guidance It will be around uh so we'll we'll we'll we'll improve over what we have reported 13:35 13 minutes, 35 seconds this year. Uh so it will be around uh 22 between 22 to 23% range. 13:41 13 minutes, 41 seconds Understood. That's very helpful. Uh also now good start to the channel. Wanted to know a little bit as to what they are selling uh you know how how has been the 13:50 13 minutes, 50 seconds response. If you could just uh throw some color on that. 13:55 13 minutes, 55 seconds Sure. Yeah. So actually we have done well in the first six months of our agency launch. 14:00 14 minutes I've got our chief agency officer Design with me. So maybe he'll talk about key metrices and the plans. 14:08 14 minutes, 8 seconds So uh good evening. This is DH. Uh we've started on time as as we wanted on 1st of October and we are in the initiation 14:17 14 minutes, 17 seconds stage of agency buildup. the leadership is in place and uh this is the first step that we have taken it uh and and uh 14:27 14 minutes, 27 seconds coming forth I think quarter on quarter we will now move on towards scaling up uh the business contribution coming from this channel the product mix the the 14:36 14 minutes, 36 seconds quantum of businesses uh that we've done now is 14 crores so we are right now uh looking at more from a perspective of uh 14:44 14 minutes, 44 seconds making a meaningful contribution in the overall business uh and the product mix will be in line with what the organization is looking for. 14:54 14 minutes, 54 seconds Okay. 14:54 14 minutes, 54 seconds And all we looking at close to 5% contribution coming from agency over next three years. So I think that's the broad uh guidance I'd like to give. 15:03 15 minutes, 3 seconds That's helpful. Uh last data keeping question if you can spell out the rider attachment rate. 15:09 15 minutes, 9 seconds Okay. uh so it's uh about 70% on the UL based unit link policies roughly 70% policies we are able to attach 15:18 15 minutes, 18 seconds protection writers in premium terms understood that's very helpful 15:24 15 minutes, 24 seconds very sorry actually it's on NOP base number of customers so 70% of the eligible customers we are able to attach 15:32 15 minutes, 32 seconds riders okay but but in premium terms what what that would translate to uh that number. Okay. 15:40 15 minutes, 40 seconds The premium term it's uh in terms of total overall ULIP it is around 5% of uh the total uh premium which we have collected from units. 15:50 15 minutes, 50 seconds Okay. So there yeah yeah so the ticket size of uh you know riders are very small but uh it 15:57 15 minutes, 57 seconds helps to enhance the margin of the unit link. So uh we are able to do that. So in terms of NOP it is around 70 plus but 16:04 16 minutes, 4 seconds in terms of uh premium size it is 5% of the margin. Uh so no no I I got got it got it very helpful. Thanks and wish you all the best. 16:14 16 minutes, 14 seconds Thank you. Thanks. 16:17 16 minutes, 17 seconds Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Anita from Value Partners. Please go ahead. 16:26 16 minutes, 26 seconds Hey hi hi John. Nice to touch base with you again. Uh just two questions from my side. First is we've seen some media reports on HSBC. 16:37 16 minutes, 37 seconds Sorry to interrupt. Yeah. Can you hear me now? 16:44 16 minutes, 44 seconds So you're sounding muffled if you're using any external Bluetooth headset or anything. May I request you use the handset mode, please? Yeah, sure. Can you hear me now? 16:54 16 minutes, 54 seconds Yes, it's better. 16:56 16 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah. So first question is with uh regards to you know we have seen some media reports that HSBC might increase 17:03 17 minutes, 3 seconds its uh stakes uh you know in in life is this coming from PMB or caner bank and 17:12 17 minutes, 12 seconds uh how how does that impact our product and channel mix that is the first question in the near term and then the second question is with regards to the 17:21 17 minutes, 21 seconds statement from the uh DFS secretary uh uh with regards to open architecture. um 17:28 17 minutes, 28 seconds you know already in in Panera Bank we have sort of NIC uh policies being sold but uh you know what will be the impact 17:36 17 minutes, 36 seconds in terms of counter share IC counter share with increase uh uh sorry to interrupt I'm sure your 17:43 17 minutes, 43 seconds volume is modulating so it's not so if I if I just repeat your question uh I'm first question was related to the 17:51 17 minutes, 51 seconds media uh news with respect to HSBC and the second question what you are saying uh asking is the statement made by DFS 17:59 17 minutes, 59 seconds with respect to uh banka and uh you also mentioned that uh the LIC is already there uh as a one of the distributor in 18:08 18 minutes, 8 seconds Canada bank so you want to understand our view right correct yeah yeah yeah so on the first question uh I'll say it's a media speculation and as 18:17 18 minutes, 17 seconds a company we would we don't comment on media speculation so that's on your first question on the second question u we have also read from uh media but we 18:26 18 minutes, 26 seconds haven't got any kind of details further from the DFS or um regulator. So we will 18:34 18 minutes, 34 seconds await regulatory guidelines but I would like to confirm that in our case Canra already has one more option. Uh so in 18:41 18 minutes, 41 seconds addition to Canra HSBC uh they have products from LIC also available in the counter. So that's there. So we don't 18:48 18 minutes, 48 seconds see this as any kind of big risk for us because we are already in that mode. uh in terms of counter share uh LIC is 18:55 18 minutes, 55 seconds there for some time and I think uh currently their share is minuscule and uh our focus will continue we are going 19:02 19 minutes, 2 seconds to grow our business so so we are fairly confident that we will be able to manage our growth in CRA bank 19:10 19 minutes, 10 seconds hope that answers your question yeah so so that's very clear and just in the you know of course I understand we 19:17 19 minutes, 17 seconds cannot comment on media speculation but uh what will be the difference in terms of the product make at HSBC branch 19:24 19 minutes, 24 seconds versus the Canera Bank branch u in terms of you know more protection flow at HSBC if you can just comment on the product mix. 19:34 19 minutes, 34 seconds So first of all Anisha I would request you to please delink the two topics. Um so if you want to know the product mix in Canra and product mix in HSBC I can 19:43 19 minutes, 43 seconds share uh those numbers with you um currently as they stand. Um so it has got no linkage first of all with the shareholdings. So I just wanted to clarify on that front. 19:52 19 minutes, 52 seconds Yeah. So yeah. 19:55 19 minutes, 55 seconds Yeah. So in HSBC uh because the kind of customer profile we have where the risk appetite is also higher there are unit 20:02 20 minutes, 2 seconds link proportion is uh around 60% or so and in camera bank uh UL proportion again would be in the range of about 20:10 20 minutes, 10 seconds 50%. So that's a broad kind of indication for the time being. 20:18 20 minutes, 18 seconds Right. Understood. Okay. Okay. That is very clear. Uh thank you. Thanks all. Uh thank you very much and all the best. Yeah. 20:25 20 minutes, 25 seconds Thanks. Thanks. 20:28 20 minutes, 28 seconds Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Sankit Goda from Aventus Park. Please go ahead. 20:35 20 minutes, 35 seconds Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Uh sir, if if I add back the GST impact and labor code impact, 20:42 20 minutes, 42 seconds honestly you you are closer to 25 and and you guided that the number will be more 22 23. for the full year next year. 20:50 20 minutes, 50 seconds So, so, so is it not to fade to say that the real number is more closer to 25 going ahead or I'm missing something 20:58 20 minutes, 58 seconds when you said 22 23 kind of a number for the next year. 21:02 21 minutes, 2 seconds Uh so, sank thanks for the question. Uh so what so in this 22.4 Four, there is 21:08 21 minutes, 8 seconds also a benefit which we have got from the uh you know uh yield curve and uh 21:16 21 minutes, 16 seconds which u there is a possibility that it might not uh you know repeat itself uh in the current year which is 2627. 21:24 21 minutes, 24 seconds So if you look at uh the uh the walk which we have presented uh so that if I take away that plus there is a 21:32 21 minutes, 32 seconds full-blown um uh impact of the agency growth uh which will be a negative strain uh so that is also going to take 21:41 21 minutes, 41 seconds away some bit of a margin. So this therefore what we are expecting that we'll continue to grow our margin and uh expected to reach uh around the range 21:51 21 minutes, 51 seconds which we have provided. So that is going to be our uh guidance. 21:56 21 minutes, 56 seconds So which means that uh the yield code benefit maybe largely you will pass on to the end consumer in the current year probably and and therefore uh therefore 22:04 22 minutes, 4 seconds that benefit what you got two 200 basis points in the current year might not be there and therefore therefore more realistically you're looking at 22 23 22:13 22 minutes, 13 seconds kind of a number that that's the way I need to understand. 22:16 22 minutes, 16 seconds Yeah. So there is a possibility that we have to pass on that benefit to the customer and also it depends on the you know market 22:24 22 minutes, 24 seconds direction. So if let's say the yield curve is going to further improve then obviously we'll get continue to get the benefit otherwise uh it has corrected 22:33 22 minutes, 33 seconds from the last uh you know it has it crossed 7% 10ear GC rate if I say uh but now it has come back again to 6.75 to 22:41 22 minutes, 41 seconds 6.9. So I think that is something which uh will be totally depending upon the market. 22:47 22 minutes, 47 seconds Uh sorry to ask again. I mean suppose the yield curve broadly remains at the current level for the last part of the next year. Uh then uh then the only 22:56 22 minutes, 56 seconds reason the margin should be 22 23 is that if you pass on the benefit to end consumer assuming macro doesn't change actually just one more thing because the 23:04 23 minutes, 4 seconds GST impact actually for last year was only half year impact whereas in the coming year it will be a full-blown impact of full year. So that will also have a negative impact. Plus we 23:13 23 minutes, 13 seconds obviously have agency also there in a full-blown. So that could also have a detrimental impact. So in spite of the yield curve that is the reason why we 23:20 23 minutes, 20 seconds are giving a direction similar to and and and this operating assumption change 50 basis point uh negative impact is largely because of the investments you made in a agency. 23:32 23 minutes, 32 seconds No the operating assumption change the negative one is is mostly on account of some of the demographic assumptions that we made. we've strengthened some of our 23:39 23 minutes, 39 seconds personality assumptions as we've seen improvement in our personality assumptions. So this is more like a one time uh you know negative impact but 23:46 23 minutes, 46 seconds over the future we will see positive impact coming out of that and and that explains the same in the EV walk right that 9 cr number probably 23:54 23 minutes, 54 seconds that that's right that's right okay understood and and given given our economic variance number sorry operating variance number seems to be meaningfully 24:01 24 minutes, 1 second very big around 130 crores in the EV walk uh just wanted to understand where it came from assuming mal I'm believing 24:09 24 minutes, 9 seconds it should not be related to mortality given given you said it's is largely because of the opex. 24:14 24 minutes, 14 seconds Yes, that's correct. It's largely because of the opex the opex efficiencies and obviously the number of policies and the volumes are are are increasing. So that is helping our 24:23 24 minutes, 23 seconds unitized cost. So the per policy cost is improving and that is flowing into a and this is the same uh direction or 24:29 24 minutes, 29 seconds guidance which we provided uh you know uh throughout that uh we will continue to have operating positive variance uh 24:38 24 minutes, 38 seconds coming to us as we increase our base and also efficiently run the business on the expense side. 24:46 24 minutes, 46 seconds Understood. Now the reason I was asking also is that given given we have seen improvement in the persistency maybe if you have revised the assumptions based on the or if you had a variance or 24:55 24 minutes, 55 seconds positive benefit because of the persistency improvement that is also getting reflected in this 130 crores or not. 25:01 25 minutes, 1 second So uh the pency assumption is not getting reflected. So it is indirectly getting reflected because of the number 25:08 25 minutes, 8 seconds of policies are increasing. So for a maintenance cost you know the maintenance cost getting divided by the you know number of policy that is helping our per policy cost. So 25:16 25 minutes, 16 seconds that is you're right. So that is also helping but indirectly not in that of not in the demographic assumption column over there it's a one-time negative 25:24 25 minutes, 24 seconds impact but over here it's coming as a positive. 25:27 25 minutes, 27 seconds Understood. Understood. And and and and another two questions uh one one is more more on capital side. So suppose uh we 25:35 25 minutes, 35 seconds we we are at 190 solveny and uh and maybe I I'm not sure whether the subject what you intend to raise is part of this 25:42 25 minutes, 42 seconds 190 or not. uh if it is not that might further improve it but but uh if you intend to grow more protection or or more nonpar or more annutity which which 25:51 25 minutes, 51 seconds and and even agency which which are capital strain or or stain to your P&L then then whether it will trigger some 25:58 25 minutes, 58 seconds kind of uh capital raise or or or anything on those lines or or you think this 190 is good enough to to take care 26:06 26 minutes, 6 seconds of this current growth rate of 20% plus what you're reporting for the whole year. Yeah, sankit 190 includes a sub debt which which we raised 250. uh there 26:15 26 minutes, 15 seconds is a negative impact MTM impact which uh is actually uh impacted uh the solvency 26:22 26 minutes, 22 seconds adversely uh because we have some equity in the non-unit link fund also and uh as 26:30 26 minutes, 30 seconds per the solvency uh you know calculation we have to take the MTM unrealized losses there which has already recovered 26:38 26 minutes, 38 seconds to the extent uh you know almost 50 to 60% now so this is a short-term impact which we have seen So our solveny is 26:45 26 minutes, 45 seconds going to go back uh upward of uh you know 200%. And that will be sufficient for us to write uh additional protection 26:53 26 minutes, 53 seconds business which we are targeting and uh as and when we will be requiring more capital we will be again uh evaluating 27:01 27 minutes, 1 second uh you know uh the timing and the quantum of that. 27:05 27 minutes, 5 seconds Understood. Understood. And lastly uh uh if you can give that number of protection which is 2 20 220 205 crores 27:14 27 minutes, 14 seconds broken down into retail and uh uh uh credit life almost 50/50 27:23 27 minutes, 23 seconds almost 50/50 okay understood yeah that's that's largely my questions uh if any I will come back in the queue. Thanks. 27:33 27 minutes, 33 seconds [clears throat] 27:35 27 minutes, 35 seconds Thank you. 27:37 27 minutes, 37 seconds Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please limit your 27:45 27 minutes, 45 seconds questions to each per participant. You may rejoin the queue for any follow-up questions. Our next question comes from the line of Nishin Chawat from Kep. 27:54 27 minutes, 54 seconds Please go ahead. 27:56 27 minutes, 56 seconds Uh, hi. Uh, thanks for taking my question. uh you I was looking at your VNB work and uh you know when I look at 28:03 28 minutes, 3 seconds the business impact of around 340 basis points positive uh you know this this largely reflects the uh the growth in 28:11 28 minutes, 11 seconds protection business right or is there any other change in composition because composition broadly suggest that it's similar right 28:20 28 minutes, 20 seconds so yeah so I would attribute it to primary three reasons so one as correctly pointed out by you is the increase in protection both on the 28:27 28 minutes, 27 seconds individual and Right. Second is the high rider attachment as we already mentioned at about 70% rider attachment which is 28:35 28 minutes, 35 seconds again uh something which we'll continue to grow uh because right now we are still focusing on you know one or two riders but in future we see potential to 28:43 28 minutes, 43 seconds increase our riders number of riders as well like CI and everything something which we are not uh still exploring too much while it's there in the product suit but so that's something again which 28:52 28 minutes, 52 seconds we expect to increase going forward. The third one uh is uh coming from the the 28:58 28 minutes, 58 seconds the red lights and the PTP mix. So our business profiles have also we've also been focusing this year on you know 29:07 29 minutes, 7 seconds higher PTP mix which has also both in the ulip and rat side which has also helped uh grow our margins. 29:15 29 minutes, 15 seconds Got it. And uh just one small thing have you given any any guidance or shared any thoughts on the growth that you're looking at this year and I'm probably 29:24 29 minutes, 24 seconds looking growth topline growth you know on that basis the current uncertainties which are there the 29:31 29 minutes, 31 seconds geopolitical uh uncertainties we would not like to give any kind of guidance for the time being one thing which I'll definitely like to mention 29:38 29 minutes, 38 seconds and we are pretty confident about that is that our growth will be superior to the industry growth which you would have seen in the past also that we'll continue to outperform the industry and 29:47 29 minutes, 47 seconds once there is clarity on this uh geopolitical front then we'll be happy to give guidance on the top line also 29:54 29 minutes, 54 seconds starting from next quarter but uh as I mentioned we are fairly confident that our growth will be superior to the industry growth 30:03 30 minutes, 3 seconds and fair to say that the that's that you know the forthcoming uh uh guidelines on whatever changes could be made on agency 30:12 30 minutes, 12 seconds commission or deferment or you know whatever you know in uh in the works you know don't affect you as much 30:20 30 minutes, 20 seconds see that in fact we have been we have shared in the past also that our commission rates are quite reasonable so uh we don't have the exact numbers 30:28 30 minutes, 28 seconds coming uh in the new regulations so can't really comment on that but I think we are pretty kind of uh well positioned 30:35 30 minutes, 35 seconds to uh take care of that uh I don't think so it'll be a challenge for us while we await uh final numbers or guidance 30:42 30 minutes, 42 seconds coming from the regulator on And just one last thing is uh if FRS uh readiness uh uh will you kind of wait 30:51 30 minutes, 51 seconds for a year and and uh you know do do you do you kind of do IFRS for HSBC? 30:57 30 minutes, 57 seconds Uh no so we don't report IFR's number to HSBC and uh we were actually uh going as 31:04 31 minutes, 4 seconds per the earlier schedule of 1st April 2027 and uh as mentioned in the opening comment by Anoj uh we are going for a 31:13 31 minutes, 13 seconds forbearance for one year and uh we'll be implementing from 1st April 2027. 31:20 31 minutes, 20 seconds Got it. Got it. Thank you very much and all the best. Thanks. Thanks. 31:26 31 minutes, 26 seconds Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Swarnab Mukharji from 361 Capital. Please go ahead. 31:34 31 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. Hi sir, thank you for the opportunity. Uh uh couple of questions from my side. First sir, uh as you mentioned that uh your expectation is to 31:43 31 minutes, 43 seconds outperform the industry growth. I just wanted to understand from the product point of view uh you know which segments 31:50 31 minutes, 50 seconds do you anticipate you know will be uh the major driver of the growth? I understand the cyclicality that might be 31:57 31 minutes, 57 seconds there in categories based on the overall macro environment. But when I look at you know at a quarterly level your mix 32:05 32 minutes, 5 seconds etc. So normally I think uh Q3 kind of growth have been looks like uh gets driven a lot by ulit and then in other 32:13 32 minutes, 13 seconds quarters I think share of uh traditional products pick up. So uh maybe you know if if you could highlight uh uh you know what would be your thought process 32:21 32 minutes, 21 seconds regarding say product segment level growth that would be helpful and uh if you can also highlight maybe you know 32:27 32 minutes, 27 seconds what uh what uh is is it just the factor factor of macros where we have in the last uh last two third quarter numbers 32:36 32 minutes, 36 seconds have seen a higher uh uh higher uh mix of unit or is there any channel level strategy that kind of leads to that? Uh 32:45 32 minutes, 45 seconds that is my uh first first question. Uh second is uh I just wanted to also understand you know the sensitivity 32:52 32 minutes, 52 seconds numbers that you have uh reported in terms of in terms of embedded value from FI25 uh visa with that in FI26 there has 33:01 33 minutes, 1 second been uh quite a drop. So just wanted to understand uh how this is uh playing out in terms of the numbers. Yeah. Thirdly. 33:10 33 minutes, 10 seconds Yeah. Uh sorry sir one last question again on the product mix side. 33:15 33 minutes, 15 seconds uh is that uh I think uh so this is and sorry I I joined it little late maybe you have mentioned your opening 33:21 33 minutes, 21 seconds statement but this is more uh like protection and I see that there is also traditional savings you have mentioned 33:29 33 minutes, 29 seconds in the presentation so is this like nonpar uh product uh because star you have mentioned I think separately so 33:36 33 minutes, 36 seconds just wanted a clarification on this sure sure so I'll try to first answer your first question and third question together and then I'll request are 33:44 33 minutes, 44 seconds appointed actually to talk about the sensitivity. U so see first of all I'd like to mention that we should not be looking at month-on-month or 33:51 33 minutes, 51 seconds quarteronquarter position. I think uh our our overall strategy is very clear that we want a very balanced product mix 33:59 33 minutes, 59 seconds which would mean roughly 50% tulip or and roughly 50% traditional. So that is number one in terms of our overall 34:06 34 minutes, 6 seconds strategy on the product mix. Number two uh yes the market conditions also impact to some extent uh in terms of market 34:13 34 minutes, 13 seconds appetite for a particular category of uh products. So we have seen in last part last quarter which was JFM quarter 34:22 34 minutes, 22 seconds obviously the markets were not very supportive. So obviously the customer preference also shifts accordingly. But I'll also like to mention that new 34:30 34 minutes, 30 seconds product launches also play a very important role in this. So in fact in the month of February and March we had launched new traditional products. one 34:37 34 minutes, 37 seconds was par, the other was nonp par and that had some kind of good customer outcome which resulted in our traditional mix actually going up in these two months. 34:47 34 minutes, 47 seconds So I would say there are a couple of factors which determines uh what kind of product mix for a particular period but largely uh and I think my request will 34:54 34 minutes, 54 seconds be that we should look at it at from long-term perspective when I say long-term uh at least one year uh that product mix will be balanced and within 35:03 35 minutes, 3 seconds that as in when we launch products or we or depending upon the market conditions percentages can go up and down uh there can be minor variation but on overall 35:11 35 minutes, 11 seconds basis from long-term perspective our guidance is very clear and we'll stick to that. uh now I'll request my colleague Nathan to talk about the sensitivity. 35:19 35 minutes, 19 seconds Yeah. [clears throat] So on the interest rate sensitivity I think this is something which we've been uh talking about the last few investor calls as 35:27 35 minutes, 27 seconds well that we've been you know we've been working has been a tactful uh you know tactful uh tactical call to increase the assets of the dur increase the duration 35:36 35 minutes, 36 seconds of our assets which has helped in reducing the sensitivity. In addition to that we've also been increasing our hedging ratio. So we've been increasing 35:43 35 minutes, 43 seconds our investment in derivatives which is also helping in reducing the interest rate sensitivity. 35:51 35 minutes, 51 seconds Right sir. Okay. Understood. Just uh couple of follow-ups. So maybe you know we uh can you maybe sir highlight what proportion of your book would be hedged 36:00 36 minutes right now uh and instruments you are uh you using uh for the same and uh sir 36:07 36 minutes, 7 seconds Anir I mean just wanted to your views on how do you see say over a cycle maybe not near-term of course because of the 36:15 36 minutes, 15 seconds volatility in the market but how do you see the overall industry level AP growth pan out in the life insurance industry 36:23 36 minutes, 23 seconds uh uh over say maybe a 2 three year point of view assuming that uh it's a relatively normalized scenario. Yeah. Thank you. 36:31 36 minutes, 31 seconds Right. So in terms of uh uh business growth uh topline growth my expectation is that in this year uh the current year 36:40 36 minutes, 40 seconds because of the geopolitical industry may grow in the range of about uh 10% or so and over longer term and considering 36:49 36 minutes, 49 seconds that uh the regulatory environment continues to be favorable which it is currently uh and the markets also stabilize I think we can expect growth 36:56 36 minutes, 56 seconds in the industry to the tune of about 12 to 14%. Uh that's my take in terms of the industry growth 37:06 37 minutes, 6 seconds right sir got very on the hedging part yeah and the hedging so we at about 70% hedging ratio right now and we mostly 37:14 37 minutes, 14 seconds invest in uh fraud the forwarded agreements as well as we've recently started investing in bond forwards as well 37:22 37 minutes, 22 seconds okay sir okay this is very helpful thank you so much sir and all the best for 27 thanks Nice. 37:30 37 minutes, 30 seconds Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Midesh Jen from Invest. Please go ahead. 37:37 37 minutes, 37 seconds Uh uh thanks for the opportunity. So my question is on channel mix and how uh which channel drove growth in FI26. Uh 37:45 37 minutes, 45 seconds because we don't have FI25 data to compare. Uh so which channels drove that mix and how do you see growth potential in Canra Bank? uh let's say from a 37:54 37 minutes, 54 seconds medium-term perspective and uh how are you planning to drive that growth in Kendra back right so uh we witnessed growth across 38:02 38 minutes, 2 seconds all channels so whether it was Canra whether it was HSBC or other alternate channels across channels we have seen 38:09 38 minutes, 9 seconds decent growth um coming to uh the split uh in terms of Canada contribution that 38:15 38 minutes, 15 seconds was about uh 72% HSBC was 14% uh other banks close to about 6% and remaining 8% 38:24 38 minutes, 24 seconds was alternate. So that that is the broad split 72 14 6 and 8. This is in terms of channel wise contribution as of now last 38:32 38 minutes, 32 seconds year and and on the potential in Kendra Bank how do you see growth potential in Kendra Bank and let's say in terms of 38:41 38 minutes, 41 seconds branch penetration how many branches we have penetrated what is the potential etc and right how do you plan to drive growth there right no I think we have really good 38:50 38 minutes, 50 seconds potential in canra bank and this is something which we have shared over a period of time also since our listening that uh the customer base is huge uh 38:58 38 minutes, 58 seconds it's about uh active customer base if I talk about in camera it's about 8 and a half crore customer base currently our penetration is less than 2%. So there is 39:08 39 minutes, 8 seconds ample scope for increasing our penetration coming to branch activation um our definition of activation is that 39:16 39 minutes, 16 seconds a policy which is more than 50,000 rupees ticket size if minimum 10 policies have been sold in a particular branch then we consider that as active. 39:24 39 minutes, 24 seconds So that's the definition of our activation and currently going by this parameter 54% of Canva bank branches are 39:33 39 minutes, 33 seconds activated and if you ask me whether all the branches have sold uh some policies then my answer would be yes there would be branches who would have sold one 39:40 39 minutes, 40 seconds policy five policies 10 policies uh but our threshold is 10 policies with minimum ticket size of uh 50,000 and uh 39:49 39 minutes, 49 seconds our activation has actually improved as I mentioned to 54% it used to be 50% previous here. 39:56 39 minutes, 56 seconds Sure sir. That's it from my side. Okay. Okay. Thanks. 40:01 40 minutes, 1 second Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Vinod Rajani from Nirmal Bank. Please go ahead. 40:08 40 minutes, 8 seconds Yes. Uh thank you for taking my question. Uh I have one question on uh this ANA which has declined from uh 40:16 40 minutes, 16 seconds 18504 million to 15,600 or million. So uh the question is uh uh based on this 40:25 40 minutes, 25 seconds uh AP you know uh kagger uh of above industry growth and uh uh this growth that we are seeing as well in protection 40:33 40 minutes, 33 seconds as well as non-parent annuities uh what what is the capital requirement and if you have a three-year plan what will be 40:41 40 minutes, 41 seconds the capital requirement and can is it self it is is it self sustaining um at current levels or do you think you 40:49 40 minutes, 49 seconds know there'll be further whether u uh there could be further capital raises or subordinated debt uh in FY27 or in the 40:58 40 minutes, 58 seconds next 3 years that is I mean I just want to know what the this capital raise that you have done and what is built in into 41:05 41 minutes, 5 seconds in terms of the growth expectations uh for different product categories. So that is question number one. Um the 41:13 41 minutes, 13 seconds second question I have is on the agency channel. Now that uh you know um we have started recruiting and and so on and we are building out this agency channel. 41:22 41 minutes, 22 seconds What is our um what is our expectation in terms of uh say in the next 2 three years what what level do we want to scale it to and what you know what 41:31 41 minutes, 31 seconds targets do we have in mind? Uh so these are the questions I have. Thank you. 41:36 41 minutes, 36 seconds Right. So so u I'll start with the first one. Uh so like uh like we mentioned that uh uh right now our capital is good 41:46 41 minutes, 46 seconds enough to take a growth of protection business and various cohorts. Uh and uh 41:52 41 minutes, 52 seconds you know basis uh the projection which you are asking is there is definitely if the capital need is there uh we will be 42:02 42 minutes, 2 seconds uh reaching uh uh market and raising the subordinate debt uh if that is required. 42:07 42 minutes, 7 seconds But as our profit is building up that will continue to uh provide the support uh for this capital need what we are 42:15 42 minutes, 15 seconds looking for. So it is uh the growth and everything is well planned and structured and all the parameters are 42:22 42 minutes, 22 seconds considered for uh capital requirement and for various product mix and the growth uh which we are targeting. 42:31 42 minutes, 31 seconds Yeah, on your agency question, I'll ask DH, our chief agency officer, to provide some details. 42:38 42 minutes, 38 seconds Yeah. Uh good evening. U we actually want to invest in the channel from a long-term perspective and for uh diversification. It's a strategic 42:46 42 minutes, 46 seconds priority for us. U our road map centers on tier one le branch strategy and uh we want to make a 42:55 42 minutes, 55 seconds meaningful contribution of around 5% uh in next 3 years time. We have to also be 43:02 43 minutes, 2 seconds clear that we it has to be a sustainable growth and it has to be done in a phased manner. Uh that's that's the current guideline that we have. 43:11 43 minutes, 11 seconds Yeah. 43:11 43 minutes, 11 seconds And we are seeing some encouraging signals in the initial phase of first six months. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. 43:20 43 minutes, 20 seconds Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants, you may press star and then one to ask a question. Our next question comes from the line of Mr. Pen. 43:31 43 minutes, 31 seconds Please go ahead. 43:34 43 minutes, 34 seconds Yeah. Hi, thank you for the opportunity and congrats on your great set of numbers. Uh first question is on you know while you alluded to the uh 43:41 43 minutes, 41 seconds dynamics at Canera. Could you also throw some light on HSBC as to you know what's the kind of penetration and I think if I 43:48 43 minutes, 48 seconds remember correctly there are uh more number of branches that HSBC is opening up. Uh so what's the status there and how are we scaling up there? That's my 43:57 43 minutes, 57 seconds first question. I'll follow up with my second later. 43:59 43 minutes, 59 seconds Sure. Okay. So, HSBC has actually delivered good growth of 29% last year and I think that trajectory will 44:06 44 minutes, 6 seconds continue. Uh as you rightly said, uh HSBC is in expansion mode. So, eight branches. Uh they have opened over and about 26 branches which were there 44:15 44 minutes, 15 seconds already. Uh so we are seeing very good traction in HSBC and uh we are also looking forward to starting with the 44:22 44 minutes, 22 seconds gift city uh business which will also add to the business growth. So we are very very kind of optimistic about 44:30 44 minutes, 30 seconds growth of business in HSBC coming from uh obviously the NR base which is there and to answer your specific question on 44:38 44 minutes, 38 seconds penetration in the premier segment which they have where we primarily uh sell insurance our penetration is close to 14%. 44:46 44 minutes, 46 seconds Okay. Uh so is there any other channel which is not available to us uh today to address like a credit card customer or 44:54 44 minutes, 54 seconds any other category of customer HSBC which we are not serving today and uh has a potential to be opened up for us. 45:01 45 minutes, 1 second Yeah. So there are segments. So for example personal banking is one uh where we are expanding and also the credit card customers who may not be having 45:09 45 minutes, 9 seconds bank account. So we have created propositions uh specifically to address that base. So we we are very much aware of the potential which exists even in 45:17 45 minutes, 17 seconds these categories and we are kind of creating products to suit those needs. 45:22 45 minutes, 22 seconds In fact, credit life also uh is something which we sell in HSBC and as the bank is focusing on mortgages, our contribution from credit life will also 45:31 45 minutes, 31 seconds increase, right? And you know like when we compare such say a Caner and SBI or your the 45:39 45 minutes, 39 seconds other PSU large bank supported player you know there's obviously a big gap between the branch productivity 45:46 45 minutes, 46 seconds obviously you worked over the last few years to kind of uh improve the momentum there what are new initiatives that 45:53 45 minutes, 53 seconds Canada would be taking uh to ensure that you know we continue to grow at a healthy pace and you know so I think 46:01 46 minutes, 1 second yeah that was my second Right. So first of all we are focusing on the branch activation. Uh we want to further increase it. Currently it's 46:09 46 minutes, 9 seconds about 54%. Uh we want to increase the activation. Number two on the uh productivity there also we have taken 46:17 46 minutes, 17 seconds certain initiatives and uh we are using analytics to kind of figure out uh those particular cohorts where the potential 46:24 46 minutes, 24 seconds is higher. That's one way of also getting into that customer base which may not be visiting branches but have the wealth or the kind of need for 46:33 46 minutes, 33 seconds protection. So, so that's where we are focusing upon taking help from analytics, customer segmentation, all of 46:40 46 minutes, 40 seconds it to improve both branch productivity as well as branch activation. And you are right there is currently gap between SBI and other public sector banks. But 46:50 46 minutes, 50 seconds if I if I if I talk about the numbers actually Canra productivity levels are just next to SBI and uh amongst the PSU 46:57 46 minutes, 57 seconds banks after SBI it's Canra bank uh with the productivity and the activation numbers which are there. So so we focusing there on business and as I 47:05 47 minutes, 5 seconds mentioned earlier also there's a lot of potential and we are following segmented approach and help from the data analytics to kind of further penetrate. 47:13 47 minutes, 13 seconds So that's what we are doing currently. 47:16 47 minutes, 16 seconds Got that. And last question is on agency channel. Uh you know obviously we have a decent branch network and already um you 47:25 47 minutes, 25 seconds know uh some bit of infrastructure already in place. Right. Right. So you know so so from a say in you know 47:33 47 minutes, 33 seconds somebody setting up from groundup zero to someone like you what kind of different share and what kind of momentum or do you think that the kind 47:42 47 minutes, 42 seconds of profitability that you're delivering do you want to front end the expenses some bit of more color apart from what you've given so far 47:49 47 minutes, 49 seconds right so we are currently leveraging on the branches which we have so we have about 105 branches of camera HSBC for 47:57 47 minutes, 57 seconds agency specifically uh we want to be active in at least 50 locations. So that will be mix of some specific new 48:05 48 minutes, 5 seconds locations as well as using our current branch infrastructure. Uh so that's how we we are going to optimize and our back 48:12 48 minutes, 12 seconds end is all in place for last 17 18 years. So we are leveraging on that in terms of expansion. So basically it's a 48:19 48 minutes, 19 seconds new branches plus the number of distributors we are going to engage and the manpower to support that. So, so 48:26 48 minutes, 26 seconds basically the investment is going pime going to be primarily in the front end capabilities and we are going to leverage on our existing branch network. 48:37 48 minutes, 37 seconds Got that. Thank you so much and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. 48:43 48 minutes, 43 seconds The next question comes from the line of Sadhart Rajpurit from Systematics Group. Please go ahead. 48:50 48 minutes, 50 seconds Uh good evening. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on the good members. Hope I'm audible. 48:56 48 minutes, 56 seconds Yeah, thank you. So, uh uh first on uh uh on your new product uh uh do you see any more gaps in your existing products 49:05 49 minutes, 5 seconds uh segments where you think would be launching more products now? 49:09 49 minutes, 9 seconds Uh see our product suite is complete actually we have products across various categories. uh so first of all I like to mention that there are no gaps uh in our 49:18 49 minutes, 18 seconds current product suite but you can always improvise and in fact there are new ideas uh which keep on coming up and that's what we have done when I talked 49:25 49 minutes, 25 seconds about two new traditional products which we launched in February and March uh what we looked at was on customer need as well as offering some attractive 49:33 49 minutes, 33 seconds proposition so it's an ongoing thing so I'll not say there's a gap in the product suite product suite is complete catering to all segments across age 49:40 49 minutes, 40 seconds groups but you you you always have the opportunity of designing new features, offering something innovative and from 49:48 49 minutes, 48 seconds the product development side, we always keep kind of focusing on some of these initiatives which is helping us in kind of growing our business volumes. So, 49:56 49 minutes, 56 seconds it's an kind of I'll say ongoing journey and we'll continue to innovate our products and offer features which are unique in the market. 50:05 50 minutes, 5 seconds Okay. uh on the volatility in the mix with actually uh generally uh it it is 50:12 50 minutes, 12 seconds with other bank also but we don't have the long period history of our uh our insurers. So uh so what uh generally how 50:20 50 minutes, 20 seconds is the volatility is it uh a Q4 being uh uh heavily means uh the Q3 being heavily 50:28 50 minutes, 28 seconds focused or uh and heavily moves away from you know is that the trend historic 50:38 50 minutes, 38 seconds yeah see first of all I'd like to mention that uh actually we don't look at month on month or quarter on quarter uh the guidance which we have given is 50:45 50 minutes, 45 seconds for the year and depending Depending upon the market conditions, depending upon the needs, we may kind of make some tweaks. So the broader guidance is 50% 50:55 50 minutes, 55 seconds uh kind of UL and 50% traditional and month- on-month, quarter on quarter, it may vary. So there's no fixed seasonality I'll say in terms of product 51:03 51 minutes, 3 seconds mix, but depending upon the market conditions, customer ask and new product launches, we may see spikes happening in 51:10 51 minutes, 10 seconds certain months and we may see uh unit link selling in those months where the markets are kind of giving good returns and all that. So my my request would be 51:18 51 minutes, 18 seconds rather than monitoring product mix on a month-on-month or quarteronquarter basis, we should look at full year because that is what it matters. So so 51:26 51 minutes, 26 seconds that's how we kind of monitor internally. And then we have got various sales enablers which we kind of keep on changing from time to time uh to create excitement. 51:37 51 minutes, 37 seconds Okay. And uh the channel mix uh that you gave recently I think is exactly same uh so uh as what we have reported. So I'm assuming it is for FI26. 51:46 51 minutes, 46 seconds So can you give the uh channel mix for FI25? It's possible. 51:51 51 minutes, 51 seconds Yeah, it's it's also similar. It's a similar channel mix. Uh so there is not much change between FI25 and 26. 52:00 52 minutes Okay. And uh recently RBI came with a draft on the responsible business. uh and do you see any uh implications 52:08 52 minutes, 8 seconds uh on ground any change in terms of the bank's operations after the draft and you can see first of all we welcome such changes 52:17 52 minutes, 17 seconds but right now they are draft so we are looking for final guidelines to be issued and we'll be very happy to implement in fact our sales practices 52:24 52 minutes, 24 seconds are well governed and uh we'll go with whatever uh suggestions or the guidelines issued by either RBA or IDA 52:34 52 minutes, 34 seconds Okay. Can you give me a break up in terms of your uh retail protection between online and offline? 52:41 52 minutes, 41 seconds Uh this is generally offline. There's uh online what we use policy bazar. Uh 52:48 52 minutes, 48 seconds retail uh we are able to do mostly offline this time. 52:55 52 minutes, 55 seconds Thank you. I'm being honest. Thank you. 53:01 53 minutes, 1 second As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. 53:07 53 minutes, 7 seconds Yeah. Uh thanks a lot uh to everyone for uh participating in this call. I I know that it's like late in the evening. 53:15 53 minutes, 15 seconds Thank you very much for all your support and looking forward to further engagements. So thanks a lot. 53:24 53 minutes, 24 seconds Thank you. 53:25 53 minutes, 25 seconds On behalf of Motila, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you. 53:33 53 minutes, 33 seconds Thanks.